Give it either a catapult or one of those oversized crossbows (forgive me for not using the proper name as I can't remember) and they really would be tanks.
@@jacobemming407 the way the wagons were organized makes me think proto-IFVs, since they’d carry infantry into battle and would be supported by them when stopped.
IIRC, war wagons were also used in China to counter the Mongols and other nomadic societies. I remember reading about a war wagon with rocket pods similar to the hwacha and breech loading cannons.
There was a famous Polish general (the one with an eyepatch) who specialized in war wagons and managed to save a besieged city by deploying them agressively, fortifying a hill next to the city that was under siege. People commenting after me will surely remember his name.
I wonder what kind of social and political effects the war wagon had it any. I vaguely remember learning about an "infantry revolution" where peasant foot soliders began to make their worth on the battlefield vs noble knights
Sadly not much, they were used but not much in comparison, they were too reliant on roads and specialised tactics, plus people learnt how to counter them rather well, hence the hussites losing. Another issue is that artillery advanced so they no longer provided sufficient protection, they only worked when they did because cannons were around, but fairly small and low powered, because they added their cannons to the wagon forts quite often
The war wagons are quite effective in the beginning however they're pretty vulnerable to field artillery weather is from gunpowder artillery such as cannons or mechanical artillery such as a Ballista for example. The war wagons also weren't as mobile as traditional heavy cavalry that can attack in different terrains and positions. Also the Hussite did have some armored knights & heavy Infantry too. They usually employ their heavy units when things got too spicy.
@@luggy9256 uhhh I don't think the Hussites lost I think they fell apart due to civil war. War Wagons were successfully used for nearly 80 years after the Hussite wars. And what do you mean they couldn't be used in terrain? 500 Hussites with 12 wagons defeated 2000 knights in a swamp outside Deutschbrod.
I love the idea of a fancy noble knight who trained in battle his whole life getting the rug pulled out from under him by a couple peasants with a cool wagon.
The war wagons are quite effective in the beginning however they're pretty vulnerable to field artillery weather is from gunpowder artillery such as cannons or mechanical artillery such as a Ballista for example. Also the Hussite did have some armored knights & heavy Infantry too. They usually employ their heavy units when things got too spicy. Also the chances are two out of those three of peasants were probably be killed by the knight. Knights were no joke even when they lose a fight they still give their enemies of very bloody nose for a reminder.
@@landsknecht8654 True but the Hussites did actually win a fair few battles, especially under Jan Ziska, where they absolutely demolished Bohemian noble armies of men at arms and knights. This sort of tactic led the resurgence of infantry armies for about 80 years before gunpowder weapons started taking over more often
Ottomans also take inspiration from this and build there own war wagons and made "tabur cengi" war tactic using war wagons which also use by Mughals to conquer India Unfortunately we don't know what the ottoman war wagons looks like
@BomberTheGreat ottomans probably know hussites and learn from them or maybe lt is the other way, whatever the case we know ottoman have war wagons because ottoman military advisors teach mughals how to make and use war wagons which how mughals conquered India
Hussite Wars are such a forgotten period, overshadowed by much larger conflicts right before and after (and at the same time). They are the "toddler period" of a lot of later tactical mainstays.
I love this so much! Its like a little proto-tank and a mobile fortification! Not nearly as good as a modern tank, but hilarious in it's actually effectiveness!
Jan zizka also understood that the knights chivalric code would prevent them from doing any kind of tactical maneuvers. So he would set these up in swamps or on to top of hills. Where knights can only come from one direction, but also that they will not retreat from peasants. Because that would be dishonorable. So it would be a pretty one sided fight.
Imagine your wagon gets disconnected and your just left on your own with three other dudes and a glorified box in a sea of people that want to kill you.
Fun fact: in one battle they were surrounded, so they joined the wagons together into armored train and rode it down the hill straight into enemy lines and that helped them escspe.
I have a vague memory of one of these used to see of a detachment of Napoleons soldiers in Austria, the women inside having medieval heavy crossbows, but without a cannon the French soldier couldn't shoot through the sides with muskets. The crossbows being actually more accurate over a longer range the soldier decided running was a better plan.
Best part is, when knights were ordered to attack, the ones in front got stuck. They coudn't turn their horse around or deflect anyblows, as they were pushed to the wagons by their own men.
My friend always thought Warhammer fantasy wagons were unrealistic until i show him this,the difference Warhammer fantasy wagons have multi canons and repeater canons something never existed in those ages
The history and the evolution of the war wagons of the bronze age to the race for Africa to its evolution into the modern improvised gun truck or light attack vehicle it's quite fascinating the same idea arisen and continuously has been evolved over multiple years and in multiple different areas of the world
What they did with the horses after the gathered in formation? If you close a defensive circles with wagons I am not sure you had enough space to gather the horses inside the formation.
Im genuinely surprised that we haven't seen old Soviet tanks getting converted into similar bunkets in the Ukraine-Russia war. They've got thousands of old tanks lying around in various states or repair, and large sections of the front have been static for years. Pop a cage and some netting on it, maybe some dirt. Two man bunker on a trench line that'll take several artillery shells to destroy and so long as the hatch is closed it should he imperious to FPV drones.
Imagine a game like this where teams are in wagons and they have to destroy each other
Team Wagon 2
Total war: wagon
Max Max: Gypsy Road
The Way of the Wagon!
Oregon Trail 2.0?
Ahhh yes the Hussite wagon forts! In a sense you could say these were proto tanks and damn did they lay the hurt l!
Give it either a catapult or one of those oversized crossbows (forgive me for not using the proper name as I can't remember) and they really would be tanks.
@@jacobemming407 tehy had cannons
@@Fatherofheroesandheroines oh they did? Then yes definitely an early tank to me.
@@jacobemming407 the way the wagons were organized makes me think proto-IFVs, since they’d carry infantry into battle and would be supported by them when stopped.
@@jacobemming407
Do you mean ballistas?
The Medieval Tank.
More like an armored personnel carrier (APC)
Medieval apc then
@@yagami1134 armored peasent Carrier XD
@@Blank-401 heh nice one
@@Blank-401 Seems legit and something nobles would say
Jan Zizka was one of the best generals in all of Europe
IIRC, war wagons were also used in China to counter the Mongols and other nomadic societies. I remember reading about a war wagon with rocket pods similar to the hwacha and breech loading cannons.
I thought this was just a Warhammer fantasy thing! I can't believe it's actually rral omgosh it's amazing!!!!
There was a famous Polish general (the one with an eyepatch) who specialized in war wagons and managed to save a besieged city by deploying them agressively, fortifying a hill next to the city that was under siege.
People commenting after me will surely remember his name.
@@Scarletraven87 Czech, not Polish and his name was Jan Žižka
Warhammer Fantasy takes a lot from real world history
@@LordVader1094 I knew it did but I didn't know that was one of them!!! So happy to know it is!!!
Also they suck bigtime in wh2 it's kinda sad
I wonder what kind of social and political effects the war wagon had it any. I vaguely remember learning about an "infantry revolution" where peasant foot soliders began to make their worth on the battlefield vs noble knights
Look up Wagenburg if you want to read how wagons were used in battle Afterwards
Sadly not much, they were used but not much in comparison, they were too reliant on roads and specialised tactics, plus people learnt how to counter them rather well, hence the hussites losing.
Another issue is that artillery advanced so they no longer provided sufficient protection, they only worked when they did because cannons were around, but fairly small and low powered, because they added their cannons to the wagon forts quite often
The war wagons are quite effective in the beginning however they're pretty vulnerable to field artillery weather is from gunpowder artillery such as cannons or mechanical artillery such as a Ballista for example. The war wagons also weren't as mobile as traditional heavy cavalry that can attack in different terrains and positions.
Also the Hussite did have some armored knights & heavy Infantry too. They usually employ their heavy units when things got too spicy.
@@luggy9256 uhhh I don't think the Hussites lost I think they fell apart due to civil war. War Wagons were successfully used for nearly 80 years after the Hussite wars. And what do you mean they couldn't be used in terrain? 500 Hussites with 12 wagons defeated 2000 knights in a swamp outside Deutschbrod.
Look up the hussites
I love the idea of a fancy noble knight who trained in battle his whole life getting the rug pulled out from under him by a couple peasants with a cool wagon.
The war wagons are quite effective in the beginning however they're pretty vulnerable to field artillery weather is from gunpowder artillery such as cannons or mechanical artillery such as a Ballista for example.
Also the Hussite did have some armored knights & heavy Infantry too. They usually employ their heavy units when things got too spicy.
Also the chances are two out of those three of peasants were probably be killed by the knight. Knights were no joke even when they lose a fight they still give their enemies of very bloody nose for a reminder.
@@landsknecht8654 True but the Hussites did actually win a fair few battles, especially under Jan Ziska, where they absolutely demolished Bohemian noble armies of men at arms and knights. This sort of tactic led the resurgence of infantry armies for about 80 years before gunpowder weapons started taking over more often
And hence, Mobile Fortresses were born.
"Mobile Fortresses" sounds like a mediocre and awful, overly advertised mobile game.
@@HonnePerkele Lmao thought he was actually referencing one.
@@HonnePerkele I can already see the ad were they Upgrade the wagon until it has metal sheating etc 🤣
@@HonnePerkele Or like Command and Conquer 4... so i get your point xD
Me, who's already finished the bohemian campaign in age of empires 2: I am 4 parallel universes ahead of you
The first APC, love them
Looked up “First Drive by.”
This was it.
Ah yes what's that Sir Gregor was a victim of a drive by crossbowing? 😂
Don’t forget a wide units behind the wagons take less damage. This guy is just a real life Spirit of the Law.
...are you saying spirit of the law is not real. what
The first technical.
The technical has always been cheap easy (hah) and very effective
Can we just take a minute to appreciate the goose drinking from the cup on the flag.
Ottomans also take inspiration from this and build there own war wagons and made "tabur cengi" war tactic using war wagons which also use by Mughals to conquer India
Unfortunately we don't know what the ottoman war wagons looks like
Interresting! First time i heard of anyone but the hussites using war wagons
@BomberTheGreat ottomans probably know hussites and learn from them or maybe lt is the other way, whatever the case we know ottoman have war wagons because ottoman military advisors teach mughals how to make and use war wagons which how mughals conquered India
A poor knight: War wagons too op pls nerf
I'm using this in my next dnd game
Jan Hus and Admiral Yi, masters of the turtle strategy… circa 1400-1500’s.
This may as well be an early, less terrain limited version of those armored trains used in the world wars.
Hussite Wars are such a forgotten period, overshadowed by much larger conflicts right before and after (and at the same time). They are the "toddler period" of a lot of later tactical mainstays.
"You know what's a hard coutner against cavalry? A moving wall of gunfire and other assortments of range weaponry"
- The Hussites probably
The little goose drinking from the small chalice on the flag is just 🤌 * *chefs kiss* *
"It is a lovely battlefield, and *you* are a horrible war wagon"
@@jamesredmond7001 *YES*
I love this so much! Its like a little proto-tank and a mobile fortification! Not nearly as good as a modern tank, but hilarious in it's actually effectiveness!
I guess I have something to draw inspiration from for the entwood mobile fortress concept that has been rattling in my mind
Jan zizka also understood that the knights chivalric code would prevent them from doing any kind of tactical maneuvers. So he would set these up in swamps or on to top of hills. Where knights can only come from one direction, but also that they will not retreat from peasants. Because that would be dishonorable. So it would be a pretty one sided fight.
All I can think about is how these were medieval pillboxes, but they move.
More like tanks actually.
I would like to see you do a video on technicals especially the history of them before the toyota wars.
I second this.
especially now that the US might be shifting towards open-frame transports
That’s like having a tank with the engine sticking out the front
Imagine your wagon gets disconnected and your just left on your own with three other dudes and a glorified box in a sea of people that want to kill you.
War Waggons are like armoured trains crossed with tanks. They are pretty cool :)
Okay, now someone inventing tanks makes so much more sense!
Guy 1: "Hey look! A trader's caravan!"
Guy 2: *smells the scent of gunpowder*
"That's no caravan."
Fun fact: in one battle they were surrounded, so they joined the wagons together into armored train and rode it down the hill straight into enemy lines and that helped them escspe.
I have a vague memory of one of these used to see of a detachment of Napoleons soldiers in Austria, the women inside having medieval heavy crossbows, but without a cannon the French soldier couldn't shoot through the sides with muskets. The crossbows being actually more accurate over a longer range the soldier decided running was a better plan.
It's a medieval tank / infantry fighting vehicle, change my mind
Best part is, when knights were ordered to attack, the ones in front got stuck. They coudn't turn their horse around or deflect anyblows, as they were pushed to the wagons by their own men.
The war wagon depicted in Talhoffer's fight book is especially nice.
Hussites are really wild for no absolute reason I swear to god they have the weirdest tactics
"hey your finally awake"
You were trying to cross the border, right?
As soon as i saw the image of it, i immediately thought of a Medieval drive by
Peace was never an Option.
The war wagon is basically a medieval tank
What I was thinking the whole time.
Truly the Killdozers of their time
War was sooo much more interesting than Hollywood will tell you.
The fear of Vampires and necromancers everywhere
I like that the flag looks like an Untitled Goose Game achievement icon
A Home Depot tank
Some men are fightin’ for a wagon fulla gold!!
War wagons sound like horse powered tanks
Those APC always winning battles
One of my Favorite War Tactics
The hussites absolutely dunked on everyone (including themselves, sometimes) for like 10+ years.
Respect to my Bohemian and Moravian bros (and ladies).
War wagons were not limited to Europe, as pictures suggest. They were used across various places, mostly as barricades to funnel enemy troops.
Basically just a tweaked version of ancient chariot corps with a focus on armor over mobility
Essentially the Javelin missiles of it's day.
It seems like it’d be bad in theory, because my brain imagines they’d be hard to turn
Your bangs are flawless lmao
The original tanks in warfare!
A really good unique unit
Reminds me of the tachanka.
Imagen this in a fantasy setting with a group of mages inside 😂
Or as my 1sg and I called our m113A3, The BattleWagon.
Just imagine you are charging a hussite line and the bois show up.
Armored personal carrier of the days of Yor
And never forget the good old stick with a chained ball, those damn flails cracked some serious Knight domes
Every person playing Tears of the Kingdom- that thing needs lasers
My friend always thought Warhammer fantasy wagons were unrealistic until i show him this,the difference Warhammer fantasy wagons have multi canons and repeater canons something never existed in those ages
The original battle bus
The history and the evolution of the war wagons of the bronze age to the race for Africa to its evolution into the modern improvised gun truck or light attack vehicle it's quite fascinating the same idea arisen and continuously has been evolved over multiple years and in multiple different areas of the world
Is it weird I find this really cool
What they did with the horses after the gathered in formation? If you close a defensive circles with wagons I am not sure you had enough space to gather the horses inside the formation.
Bruh that's a pre/early gun era armored vehicle damn
Add this to the stuff My artificer Will make
Im czech, and i think that They had just got the best tactics in the time
The Wagon Elite
Yes the ancestor of all tanks
The IFV of medieval times
Look up Jan Žižka. Leader of the Hussites for a time. Total BAMF.
the WWI landship:
the more ideas change...
Id still put a thin metal sheet on the side as side skirts.
Crusader Knights getting vibe-czeched by a wagon will never not be funny.
In Hus we trust!
The response is fire. And if that don't work. Use more fire.
Imagine a knight trained for his life forsaking all other pleasures in life
Only to get beat by peasants with rock and their armored carrage
A wagon of fun!
the first technical
I remember these in aoe2 expansion. Fun times.
The first APC
sounds like Newcastle ult
They even beat a Crusade
Hussites go Brrrrrrr!
Im genuinely surprised that we haven't seen old Soviet tanks getting converted into similar bunkets in the Ukraine-Russia war. They've got thousands of old tanks lying around in various states or repair, and large sections of the front have been static for years. Pop a cage and some netting on it, maybe some dirt. Two man bunker on a trench line that'll take several artillery shells to destroy and so long as the hatch is closed it should he imperious to FPV drones.
soooo...imagine medieval blitzkrieg
The sort of tank before the MKV
Only had relevance for a short time. Cannons became prevalent on the battle field and made them irrelevant.
OG Tanks
Ah yes the goose gobbler boys