@@animecroissants5597 couple years ago, swagkage posted a video with a guy who claimed that Kakazu was stronger than pain. I recommend watching it, it's a trip. I believe the video is called "Grown adult tries to convince me that Kakazu could beat Pain."
I feel like the Susano does increase speed and it doesn’t. I feel like their speed remains the same, but since the susano is larger, something larger moving the same speed in an arc means the furthest part moving is moving faster cause it’s like farther away? Some ancient memories from physics in hs fueled this comment so please someone more knowledgeable correct me where I’m wrong or if u know the term I’m referring to
@@incogni.bro3957 Not like that, I’m paraphrasing but he says something like “the susanoo has good defence but what about its speed?” In that context you could argue he’s saying it slows Sasuke down but boosts his defence. Idk maybe it doesn’t slow Sasuke or any Uchiha down but it seems like it does.
Aren’t these captured from a stream? Seth still does his well constructed videos on his main channel. Seems like these are more vs. battles that don’t need much explanation
@@CerotheDemon the man made an almost 6 hour long video cataloguing Goku's feats. And you think he's stopped putting effort into his videos? How can you possibly think Seth has less effort when he's doing research on his topics or consulting people with more experience than him in certain topics so he can properly understand his topic. Seth has stated a lot of his earlier videos were all off the top. You think an un researched video has more effort put into it?
Obito is probably the most durable character in the show. The man gets the right side of his body smashed, his whole chest blown out, the ten tails removed, zetsu pulled off and then with some Chakra from Naruto lived through a good portion of the kaguya fight as possibly the most integral member on the good side of that fight
To add evidence to the Susano'o speed amp. Sasuke and Naruto were unable to dodge Kaguya at first. However, later in the fight you can see in the background Sasuke dodging and blocking Kaguya's attack while in Susano'o
@@GeneFOX70 I think this proves that susano is faster than base sasuke because jigen was expecting it to be faster than base sasuke but when it was still to slow to touch him he was disappointed. Doesn’t mean the susano is slower than base, just means that even above base sasuke it’s still slow compared to jigen
Edo Madara vs wm Obito is a close fight. They are stated to be equal ,so the fight could go either way. Lore wise I feel Madara would win high diff. It’s interesting when you get juubito vs sage Madara. 1 eyed juubidara. Than you get hypothetical dms Obito. Is dms Obito a beast without the So6p chakra? Would he be as strong as dms kakashi? Would be surpass dms kakashi with the So6p. 3 eyed juubidara could be wanked above Hagoromo. I can explain why. Instances is Madara wins the majority. Dms Obito could possibly win ,although the limbo. It’s a weird match up nonetheless broken characters. I’d say dms Obito would scale higher with speed at least. Madara in his forms is more of a powerhouse while Obito is a haxed character.
Narrative wise Madara wins all which is kinda cringe. WM Obito is almost featless compared to the different Madaras despite how strong he is on paper/scaling wise. I dont like Madara as a character
@@tistakere5055 Lore wise and feat wise Hagoromo doesn’t. He pretty much scales no where combat wise and we have no real feats to scale him. The only thing we know is that he is weaker than kaguya. He states that Juubito is rivaling his prime and that 1 eyed juubidara was regaining his full former strength. 1 eyed juubidara was getting no diff’d by base teen So6p Naruto and Sasuke. 2 eyed juubidara is a lot stronger than he absorbed the god tree and than got more power ups. 3 eyed juubidara should scale above him. He also should scale below adult So6p Naruto and Adult Sasuke. I can explain why. The only real thing you can say is that he “escaped death” when he didn’t he’s just not in the death realm. We’ve seen other otutsuki do that explicitly and we’ve seen actual humans do the same chakra technique he’s done. Prime Hagoromo scales pretty much no where and lore wise he most likely is getting defeated by 3 eyed juubidara.
if Madara makes a wood clone, and gets Obito to suck it up, then forces Obito to use Kamui to send his body parts to the Kamui realm (which is pretty easy), the wood clone would be able to stab Obito. Surprised how often this weakness is overlooked. When against multiple opponents, if obito sucks them up and they notice floating Obito parts in the space realm and attack if, it's nearly gg for Obito
Go back and read his fight against Torune and Fuu. Notice he goes into the kamui dimension to retrieve Sasuke after capturing them yet they're nowhere to be seen
@@lancevance1893 you answered your own question,we dont see anything,we dont see the fight or anything,we dont even know if kishimoto taught of obitos weakness by that point.
I don't think that's how it works when Obito phases through things. He can't be sending his body parts to the Kamui dimension, as they don't literally disappear, they only become intangible. His ability to phase through things is separate from his ability to send things into the Kamui dimension, which is supported by the scan that claims his phasing is passive while absorbing things with Kamui is clearly active.
No the reason why kakashi hit óbito was because The eyes are linked Same When kakashi teleported his raikiri and he hit obito mask cause they’re linked Sending any clone there won’t do anything
@@amogus1415 No. The only time someone accessed his intangible body inside the dimension was Kakashi who literally has his other eye. The two eyes are linked and you'd know that if you'd read Kakashi explaining Obito kamui after he teleports KCM Naruto's rasengan into the dimension while Obito is phasing
The Susanoo definitely increases speed, in the Sasuke vs Danzo fight Tobi says in the manga “He’s coming at him with the strongest, fastest susanoo he can” when his susanoo had regressed from armored to skeletal. In the anime jpn ver he says “Sasuke is attacking quick and hard with susanoo” and in English ver he says “Sasuke is pressing him with the super fast, super strong susanoo”
"He Can" meaning thats all Sasuke had left. If u pay attention u would understand that without Susano Sasuke is a lot faster. As Adult sasuke or after he gets his Renigan he can use the swap along side his Susano. But movement wise he really isn't all that fast.
@@suuwoo He was just more powerful, to the point that Susanoo seemed slow in comparison to him, he also shattered the Perfect Susanoo with one kick, doesn’t mean that the Susanoo has a weak defense in Naruto. There’s just some characters who are stronger and can deal with Susanoo. Him saying that wouldn’t really mean it doesn’t increase power or speed, just that he was more stronger and faster.
I'm pretty sure Obito's limp state was because of Zetsu completely taking over, not just something psychological, but the mental nerf argument works because it happens to Minato to be weaker than Tobirama during the war (even in KCM2) in spite of being stated to be superior to him in base.
I believe the reason that Kakashi's kamui was as strong as it was when he had dms, is because he was six paths amped. I don't think Obito would be six paths level with just DMS alone. I do think he'd be stronger then ems madara tho, cause it's still a ridiculously op power.
@@breadslice1014 Madara doesn't have speed close to evading LR Kamui. Kakashi being a pathetic kamui user can warp mid sized objects instantly. Obito would literally kill Madara in one look.
Obito accidentally transports Madara's limbo clone into kamui dimension and it just beats Obito from the inside like what Kakashi did, or Madara set aside the limbo clones and he can just shift between those clones. Either way it's gg.
@@maxsteven3445 since he knew that, they can't do anything inside kamui dimensions, before they enter it. as an example torune and fuu are sucked into kamui dimensions they can't do a shit to obito. also if they caught by the chains theyre basicly can't do anything. as an example minato need to use flying raijin. normal ninja can't do that. since theyre hand are restricted by the chains. obito can easily chose to sucked them into kamui or kill them, or even genjutsu them either way. the only people that can hurt obito is kakashi.
@@OmnishitpostENG alright still a little confused. It makes sense about the chains restricting the movement. But why is kakashi the only one who can hit him? Obito is teleporting the part of his body that would be inflicted by an attack to the kamui dimension. Doing so leaves the portion of his body in the kamui dimension vulnerable. Why is kakashi the only one who can damage it.
@@maxsteven3445 in anime he was the only one kurama chose to send in kamui dimensions. no one really knows why, he can send a clone of naruto it would be better. it probably just a test that kurama pull out. since kakashi can also get out from that kamui dimensions since he have kamui.
I think the avatars represent Defense and Offense respectfully, any time we see Susano its acting in a defensive way. From Itachi blocking/surviving Kirin to Sasuke using it to block Infinite T while every time we see the nine tails avatar its only more offensive ability, from the Haku punch to Baron mode
A lot of people don’t know that sasuke unlocks perfect sussano when he merged with naruto with the majestic attire against jubbito…people think he unlocks it once he gets six paths which is not the case
@@xmpl4810 go read the manga he unlocks perfect sussano when he merged with naruto against jubbito…that’s why the entire kyubbi is cloaked in chakra, I used to believe sasuke didn’t unlock it until he got his amp from hagaromo, but if u give it a closer look he unlocks it sooner…I can literally send u the panel if u want and fully break it down to u👌🏽
DMS Obito one shots Madara. Kakashi was EXTREMELY inferior to Obito and yet he can warp small to mid sized objects almost instantly. Obito can literally snipe Madara's head off in one look. Madara can't even activate limbo in time.
Madara saying the susanoo is his max power does not necessarily mean he’s faster…. It could BE his ultimate destructive power, but it could still be slower
I don't think it's slower or anything, it doesn't add any weight so madara atleast has his own body speed, because if susano'o itself isn't weighted then it shouldn't affect his normal speed
I would say Obito would win and even if you give him the kyuubi i argue Obito can wrestle the control away from EMS Madara since he did it when he was fourteen year old and a base Sharigan so a way older Obito with a Ms and Rinnegan should easily beat EMS Madara in genjustu
@@sinoxi2493 not just that obito has all the other rinnegan abilities he didn’t use them against Naruto cause Naruto knew the counters ems madara wouldn’t
I mean we do know your nental is a thing in naruto that can mess up your conscious and unconscious mind state to weaken your opponents like how genjustu works with certain justu
Its stated there equal in strength and obito actually blitzes kcm2 naruto so obito > kcm2 ~ edo madara, and kamui is passive so madara cant win, obito had better genjutsu showings although its implied they're relative, so I've got obito high diff edo madara, then juubidara > juubito obviously and I have a hot take but dms obito > juubidara, he reacts to kaguya twice and can just send him to kamui then gg, happy to debate these takes aswell
How does obito “blitzing” kcm 2 give you the implication that he’s faster than madara? There’s no evidence you drew from to draw that conclusion. KCM 2 naruto tries TWO blitz attempts on madara and gets embarrassed both times.
@@cypherbrittainnethegodofsl4988 im talking about speed, and madara is only relative to kcm2 naruto anyway and base naruto is relative to 50% kuruma and kcm1 alone is more than a 2x amp so kcm1 is above full power anyway so that's not good scaing
@@weka420 Disagree. Since Madara is like more than twice KCM2 Naruto, he should also be faster than Naruto. Because KCM2 Naruto tried to use Super Mini Tailed Beast Bomb and Madara just react to it no problem. He also fought Hashirama
@Seth How about Sage Hashirama against Sage Kabuto? I think Kabuto should be allowed Edo Tensei, even if it's limited to just Kakuzu, Itachi, Nagato, Deidara. Sasori, since Kabuto used Edo tensei defensively when Tobi attempted to attack him, we know he's at least capable of controlling 5(6)(but not gonna bring up Madara) in a battle scenario, Or a power-scale on Kabuto with all his edo's would be great, no retractions, because he's probably the most slept on powerhouse in the show.
Well considering a nerfed hashirama beat kabuto’s strongest edo tensei, who he himself buffed into having abilities that he didn’t have in his prime, it’s safe to say that hashirama destroys kabuto before his summons come out
@@KingJinzo2125 This statement is just an assertion based on power, tell me ability wise, how Hashirama gets passed Kabuto's haxxed abilities? Like Kabutos layers of auto healing, infinite sage Chakra thanks to Jugo & harm avoidance with his liquid body and Harm evasion with Sage mode? Also keep in mind, Kabuto would have Intel on Hashirama being the founding Hokage, but Hashirama would have no Intel on Kabuto, so he'd have to just test his abilities to find most of them can be avoided, or healed from, then of course if 5-6 edos are allowed or not, or if we don't restrict Kabuto at all, he has on record, from the manga about 36-38 unkillable edos Hashirama would have to try sealing on top of stopping Kabuto.
@@KingJinzo2125 Also, I'm sorry but that last part of your statement, is just, idk, not smart "Yeah Hashirama can kill Kabuto before he has times to clap his hands to summon edo's." Is just to underestimate, what, is Hashirana gonna use his 10,thousand Buddha palm as soon as the match starts? Hashirama might not even have abilities that can kill Kabuto, when you consider it's primarily crushing with wood release, Kabutos snake body should hard counter that, plus he can just turn into liquid and get past whatever defense Hashirama should put up with wood release.
@@jibbobdion5072 there’s literally nothing kabuto can do to compete with hashirama unless you give kabuto the advantage via plot. Something like being hidden away where hashiramas own, vastly superior sage mode can’t detect him, and start the fight without hashirama knowing what’s going on. Because anything else where hashirama knows what’s going on results in an instant hashirama victory
@@jibbobdion5072 your whole argument isn’t smart. As big of a threat kabuto is, what makes you think hashirama wouldn’t go all out as soon as he realizes that? The fact that he’s a perfect sage would be alarming enough for hashirama to go all out. And that nonsense bout him being a snake and avoiding being crushed is the biggest amount of head canon I’ve heard in quite a long while. The only way kabuto has a chance is in a scenario where he has every advantage, and at that point you can put in damn near any strong character and they’d do the same
@@streetguru9350 Attacking obito for 5 mins straight without him deactivating and activating is the most difficult thing you can do in the entire verse . First You’d need óbito in mid air on a free fall for 10mins straight Secondly You’ll need your attacks to be perfectly sync so obito doesn’t get that 1 split sec to solidify and reset the 5mins count down Finally Pray he doesn’t use izanagi cause if he revived himself Your effort is now pointless and have to start again It took konan 15 years w 600billion paper bombs That’s 600,000,000,000 paper bombs
@@ExtraCGfx madara has plenty of tools, he can also simply make his own through wood style. Could for example whip out a ton of spears to make the attempt. Not sure about genjutsu either as well. Like he'd have to keep a deep forest emergence attack going for the duration or something similar. But it doesn't have to be large scale or a wide AoE.
@@norbit6780 it would take a while but i think madara would be able to eventually exhaust obito, i mean does obito have ems? cause without it the strain would make him go blind before he could fully contain madara imo. Now sure any live form of madara would be dead prob but edo is a whole other ballgame. i mean with perfect susasno im not sure obito could teleport inside his susano but perhaps.
Obitio got then ten tails ripped out of him a little before he was in that limp state so he should have already been dead I think that's why he was out of it though.
What about when Six path Sasuke teleported his entire Susannoo vs Six path Naruto? I don't know if that translate to speed amp but that's what came to mind when Seth ask the question.
@@DarkSkinDoffy “if you say so” my guy it’s literally shown in the manga lol. Their Fire style jutsu’s are the exact same size and travelled at the exact same speed, Obito’s Giant shuriken move at the same speed as Madara’s Yasaka Beads and they both reacted to and tagged KCM 2 Naruto numerous times. Ik it’s hard for you to accept/conceive the fact that Obito is relative or at the very least the same level as Edo Madara especially since Madara is seen to do a lot more flashy and destructive stuff like seth mentioned whereas Obito just phases through attacks and seals you.
@@DarkSkinDoffy like idk how u can say that when seth literally brings up how relative they are in this video lol did u just type this comment and dip? LMFAO
Susanoo doesn't amp speed They use more speed sometimes but thats not the same thing There are no statements or feats showing it to be stronger, that's not like ultimate proof or anything but like even when ppl fight with and without susanoo you never hear like Jigen comment on how they're faster even if they're still weak Or the Kage say the sasanoo isn't only stronger it's faster, it's beating us worse Or anything like that
@@Dj-fb8bs Its actually more complicated,: One one side you have White mask Obito hundred thousand White zetsus, Black Zetsu, the Gedo Mazo, and 7 tailed beast, with him possibly being able to do the 6 paths of pain with the tailed beast. VS Sage Mode Kabuto with his edo army which has : the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist, The Sound Ninja 5 Multiple people with Kekkei Genkai, 4 former Kage, 5 Akatsuki members, former jinchuurikis, and Madara F***ing Uchiha.
Not sure why people would think Susano'o amps speed. I dont think we ever saw any Uchiha be faster with it nor comment on being faster with it and from a logical standpoint, Susano'o is a jutsu which is constantly taxing ones chakra pool. I could imgine that it drains your chakra pool faster and therefore could potentially slow your shunshin down.
@@ice2557 that wouldn't make sense since sasuke hardly used the arrow, plus the sussano itself was just kind of blitzing danzo. The only time danzo evades sasuke's attacks is when he's not in his sussano like when he charged at him with his sword to cut him in half
@@badassproductions4734 It doesn't matter how much the arrow was used. Sasuke used it once and Obito was there to see it and its immense speed. The susanoo doesnt make you faster. Pretty sure it would be commented on if it did. Sasuke was also using shuriken on danzo and had him use Izanagi instead of dodging. Danzo is fodder
@@ice2557 The statement was about him pressuring danzo so he uses up his izanagi. The arrow was used middle of the fight and its the attacks with the sussano itself that took out most of his lives, the arrows barely contributed. Lastly if the statement referred to the arrows speed then it would have been the super strong sussano with its super fast arrows, not super strong super fast sussano.
my argument for this debate is that madara not only knows how kamui works but has way more stuff than obito for example wood clones that could pressure obito into overusing kamui, deforest emergence with katon to smoke him out, his hashirama cells giving him a better healing factor, his higher chakra reserves, his stronger visual prowess (since he has EMS) and the fact that edo's basically have infinite chakra
I know you commented this a while ago but your argument is completely not relevant to this debate. Edo madara doesn’t have wood style nor the knowledge to counter kamui unless he somehow studied obito while dead, madara literally kills himself as soon as obito understands what the eye of the moon plan is meaning he never saw the kamui in action. Edit: Also we have no evidence of his visual prowess being better then obito’s
couldn't edo madara just wait for obito's chakra reserves to max out and win out entirely through endurance. Ya it would take a while but madara has enough firepower to constantly keep obito on the defensive, forcing him to exhaust his resources in order to handle his attacks. Also, I think it's mentioned somewhere or at least implied, obito suffers some sort of strain from the rennigan due to its overwhelming power requiring an abundance chakra just to control it. Idk, kamui's so broken this seemed like one of the few feasible win scenarios for madara.
Living madara vs orange mask obito i dont see madara winning. He doesnt have a attack that can get past kamui. And obito can just walk right through susanno. If obito starts losing he can just phase into the ground to get away i dont see anyways how madara kills him.
Madara and obito are very relevant but I think is just a bad opponent for madara he has the one hack that makes him better. Madara and hashirama are stronger but obito and minato are more talented ! They are like the better version of them ! And sasuke and Naruto are a better them now it’s kawaki n boruto ! So madara loses ! Obito takes the win at high difficulty unless we add zestu to the equation.
Almost laughed 😐.... How's Minato & Obito more talented when Hashirama and Madara have been fighting, mastering and manipulating jutsus since age 3?😹 Madara claps Obito with his eyes closed
@@Rck-vert in a serious fight how only way madara wins is if his actual ability of ems is time reversal and the only time he did that was not cannon and he still got fucked up after he used it a complete flaw I believe madara is stronger but obito is just a bad opponent and is a better madara I’m sorry! Same for hashirama and minato hashirama is stronger but minato is just a bad opponent for him he couldn’t stop minato from touching him neither could madara people forget madara tried to stab hashirama he also died from being stabbed in the back he was only saved by izunagi it’s telling that a fatal wound would kill any one of them if done at the right time ! It’s the same reason Naruto daughter knocked him out cold but he fights on a greater level than momoshiki !!!! One stab to the brain in an instant would kill any one of them !!!
Can’t say he wouldn’t look at where he had the kunai plsced when fighting bee and A . It was right over bee head like he could have just stabbed him right n the brain . N he walks off ! Lol madara died from being stabbed n the back and thought hashirama died before him !! Proof !!!
@@Rck-vert also same reason kids are smarter than there parents right now ! They get to learn from the elders experiences and the world gets clever and make things easier like how when the sage had sons very few could mold chakra and do any justu at all ! By the time the war hit its thousands hundreds of thousands who can !
Should be able to do so pretty handily, a shittier KCM1 Naruto was keeping pace with Obito and Minato is at both a higher level of it, immune to Kamui, and significantly faster than Obito. And he just plays with the jinchuriki at that point as well.
@@gameuniverse5973 When he beat those, while supporting the rest of the entire war, and obito still couldn't suck him up. Kurama helped to actually end the Jinshuriki but Naruto as doing fine keeping pace. He couldn't win vs edo because hax.
I just wanna say obito was so over powered they couldn't give him his own susanoa and they took his second eye away if we go all the way with this give him his broken ass susanoa and everything I think its a whole different fight no judgment to what u said in the video I just wanted to make the point
Not really. Slow for him but he doesn’t say he’s slower. He says it’s speed isn’t too impressive and questions its defense as well and blows sasuke out of it anyway. By that logic it doesn’t amp defense either.
@@itwasntoptional2513 "It doesn't seem to be especially fast" is what he says about it. Likewise, we never see any Uchiha activate Susano'o to blitz someone, further proving the point.
@@CanadianCrits No where does that correlate to the susanoo being slower. It’s not especially fast… TO HIM. He then questions its defense and one shots sasuke out of it. If you’re going to try and use this quote to say that the susanoo makes the user slower, I can also use the exact same statement and feat to say that it doesn’t enhance defense either. Jigen also saying it’s not especially fast implies that it enhanced its speed but not to such a degree that it was impressive to him. Bad argument.
@@itwasntoptional2513 It seems that you're the one reaching here bud. 1. It's not my assumption. We literally never see a Susano'o user activate the Complete Susano'o and then blitz someone whome they couldn't have before. 2. I never once claimed that Susano'o makes you slower, that was you shoving words into my mouth.
kakuzu stomps no diff his durability is off the charts man he could take anything Madara and Obito have to throw at him what they gonna do? Nothing Kakuzu blitzes and 1 shots them both bruh.
If he summons the 10 tails it wouldn’t do much perfect susano would be enough. They actually are equals (wm Obito+ edo madara). Stated to be equal. Fight goes either way.
@@Dj-fb8bs Yeah. "Binded" not defeated and the deity gates are much better at binding than the susanoo or wood golem. Besides the perfect susanoo greatest feats is destroying mountains whereas the ten tails was stated to be able to destroy entire continents. Also Logically its larger than the susanoo meaning more mass meaning more strength.
@@ice2557 The perfect susano slash was able to destroy multiple mountains. That’s not the full power of perfect susano that’s a slash. Perfect susano is easily country-continental. Ten tails couldn’t even destroy the jinchuriaki like 8 tails they still could tank attacks. In terms of actual usability perfect susano is more versatile as 10 tails has no combat just tailed beast bombs. Perfect susano can run and jump equating ultimate defense. I don’t think perfect susano can “beat” ten tails ,but I also don’t see it losing. It’s clear that hashirama and Madara are ten tail level threats by themselves. I’m just saying the fight would go either way as wm juubito is stated to be equal to edo madara. Meaning despite everything in their arsenal they are relative in power.
I honestly think madara was suppressed for most of the war until Hashirama came, he seemed to want to enjoy himself by fighting everyone and there’s a deal of things to imply this, but it’s up in the air, I’m jus sayin if rinnegan obito scales to edo madara then he should be ~ to kcm minato and BSM naruto, also edo madara ONLY thinks he could fight juubito and overall beat him when getting sage mode, yes that’s in regards to only sage Jutsu working vs juubito but sage modes also a big amp, also susanoo and kurama avatar only look slow cuz they’re giants, iirc obito in the danzo fight Hyped up susanoo speed and at least their attacks like susanoo arrow are super fast
I feel like Madara was overhype himself that he can beat juubito with getting Hashirama sage mode and becoming alive like how he overhype himself that he could beat Hashirama with the kyuubi
@@gameuniverse5973 idk i dont recall him every being like "haha with the kyuubi you cant take me hashirama" and every time madara is talking about hashirama its regarding how hashirama is the "only one that could stop him" or how hes "the strongest shinobi" i think madara is open to admit people are stronger than him so i dont think he was hyping himself, in the anime he even declares might guy as "the strongest" and he does admit if he did fight juubito with sage mode it wouldnt be easy as he thanks naruto for saving him the trouble, his statements here seem to be more about his knowledge and what he seen rather than being cocky, he saw the entire fight
@@doctorfloppa2021 he only said that about Hashirama after the kyuubi fight and he literally said too Hashirama that you think you can kill me at any time Hashirama when he was looking down at Hashirama with the ps kyuubi avatar
@@gameuniverse5973 he only said that cuz he felt hashirama was talking down to him "i dont want to kill you" and even then the shinsu senju really only destroyed the susanoo as kurama was unscathed and even after hashirama put him to sleep theyre implied to fight equally until the end of the fight when hashirama subs a wood clone and the databook even says that theyre equal and that hashirama changing for his village is why he won
@@doctorfloppa2021 Madara still though he was above Hashirama at that moment into Hashirama slap him with the kyuubi ps combo it would be a repeat with juubito him thinking with being alive,one Rinnegan m,and sage mode he can take juubito until he does Six crimson raid formation four juubi bombs then just sticks the finger too Madara for thinking he had a chance
He didn't. He knew that he had the seal implanted in his heart but he didn't know that Madara planned everything. Go back and read the chapter. When Madara tells him, Obito is shocked.
Not true at all . Madara taught obito about a couple things . Obito taught himself wood release at age 13 . Obito taught himself genjutsu that surpasses itachi and rivals kotoamtasuki. Obito is the most advanced space time user in the entire series . Madara cant use space time jutsu at all . Obito can sense people in other dimensions , and can even sync his own kamui to allow him to travel to any dimension . Madara has never accomplished anything even close to that regarding space time . Minato admitted that obito was a superior space time jutsu user at age 14 than either he or the second hokage are . That's insane. Obito learned how to extract the nine tailed fox and put it under his control . Obito learned how to use his kamui to enhance his fire techniques making his katon tied with madara for the largest in the series . Obito learned how to control 7 bjuu at once which is something no one else in history has accomplished. I'm just gonna be honest with you madara taught obito only a few things. Most of what madara taught obito was knowledge of the world, the rinnegan and the six paths techniques and lore. Everything obito knows about combat he taught himself though . Edo madara and obito were said to be equals . Alive Rinnegan madara could possibly beat obito but I still don't see how he hits him . Rinnegan obito can see limbo and dms obito can sense limbo with six paths sage Chakra. Dms obito is just crazily powerful.
Obito wont be able to damage madara while using kamui. I will always stand by obito needing kamui to actually suck madara away to be able to win. The problem with that though is that he has to solidify to do that so he would get fucked when he tries to materialize to attack.
Actually he did not only damage Madara while in Kamui but also stole some biju chakra from him. It's insane considering that this was dying Obito stealing chakra from Juubi Madara. But I don't consider it a fight since Obito duped Madara going for the handshake
@@retroking2749 well The dragon stopped before consuming Hanzo. It also consumed others before him. WM Obito can also summon 10 tails and it will be game over for Edo madara then. No excuses
@@shadowsun649 6 paths chakra left over plus black zetsu amps who he is attached too. So he is stronger and to top it off it was basically a sucker punch. If madara is trying to kill obito in a fight he wont let his guard down to shake his hand. Your point is invalid
Jokes aside…As powerful and destructive as Madara is all his finishing attacks (Fire styles, perfect Susanoo blades&magatama, Giant Meteor) are physical so Obito should be able to kamui to avoid death, Madara isn’t really a good matchup. Rinnegan alive Madara has the best chances because of Limbo BUT Obito has a rinnegan as well so he’d be able to see the clones and work around them? As crazy as it sounds I think Madaras best chance would be his 1eye rinnegan senjutsu enhanced form against Juubito because Obito loses Kamui so he’s completely vulnerable to Madaras senjutsu enhanced attacks And he has to worry about the Gedo statue yanking the Juubi out of him
Obito beats everyone kamui is too broken so broken kishimoto did not give him his other eye and guess what when he actually did get DMS arguably kakashis susano is the strongest
I think Six would get more subs if he changed his name to Five
Four
Three
Two
one
Zero
A hypothetical Obito with DMS would be Almost unbeatable
Limbo would consistently ruin his day
@@OldFolkz i said almost unbeatable…
Reason whyKakashi was blitzing amped Kaguya with obito dms
@@Wok221kakashi had six paths chakra
People overate the hell out of limbo lol
Pretty sure that “mentally nerfed” Obito had the ten tails extracted and used rinne rebirth.. that’s pretty exhausting I’d imagine
And had Black Zetsu still on him. Telling Sakura he could like no longer move anyway.
All that for Kakuzu to slam both with his raw durability.
No one can stop darkseid
@@crusader-tilt4543 Kakuzu isn’t even Hokage Level I’m truely hokage level
@@decendant_of_the_italians kakuzu hobknockers you
When did this kakuzu meme start
@@animecroissants5597 couple years ago, swagkage posted a video with a guy who claimed that Kakazu was stronger than pain. I recommend watching it, it's a trip. I believe the video is called "Grown adult tries to convince me that Kakazu could beat Pain."
Madara tells him he's grounded.
I can beat madara
@@decendant_of_the_italians yea but madara is cooler
@@decendant_of_the_italians who are you ?
Obito would literally be like stfu dad .
I feel like the Susano does increase speed and it doesn’t. I feel like their speed remains the same, but since the susano is larger, something larger moving the same speed in an arc means the furthest part moving is moving faster cause it’s like farther away? Some ancient memories from physics in hs fueled this comment so please someone more knowledgeable correct me where I’m wrong or if u know the term I’m referring to
you on point
nah bro you're actually on point bc the susanno def has physical mass so you could use this way of thinking
I’m pretty sure Jigen just says it’s slower but idk for sure
@@nolans1675 cause hes faster
@@incogni.bro3957 Not like that, I’m paraphrasing but he says something like “the susanoo has good defence but what about its speed?” In that context you could argue he’s saying it slows Sasuke down but boosts his defence. Idk maybe it doesn’t slow Sasuke or any Uchiha down but it seems like it does.
These videos definitely need to be done well, I miss when they were constructed
Aren’t these captured from a stream? Seth still does his well constructed videos on his main channel. Seems like these are more vs. battles that don’t need much explanation
then go to the main channel? they’re doing it on stream wtf
Seth still does that my guy
@@CerotheDemon the man made an almost 6 hour long video cataloguing Goku's feats. And you think he's stopped putting effort into his videos? How can you possibly think Seth has less effort when he's doing research on his topics or consulting people with more experience than him in certain topics so he can properly understand his topic. Seth has stated a lot of his earlier videos were all off the top. You think an un researched video has more effort put into it?
@@CerotheDemon you mean the 6 hour Goku video????
Obito is probably the most durable character in the show. The man gets the right side of his body smashed, his whole chest blown out, the ten tails removed, zetsu pulled off and then with some Chakra from Naruto lived through a good portion of the kaguya fight as possibly the most integral member on the good side of that fight
Minato also slashed his throat with a kunia
To add evidence to the Susano'o speed amp. Sasuke and Naruto were unable to dodge Kaguya at first. However, later in the fight you can see in the background Sasuke dodging and blocking Kaguya's attack while in Susano'o
No one can shadow ban darkseid
"It doesn't seem to be especially fast." Jigen after seeing the Susanoo
@@GeneFOX70 weird that he would comment on its speed like that if it didn't affect speed
@@GeneFOX70 also, Jigen > Naruto and Sasuke literally combined. Of course it doesn't seem fast lol
@@GeneFOX70 I think this proves that susano is faster than base sasuke because jigen was expecting it to be faster than base sasuke but when it was still to slow to touch him he was disappointed. Doesn’t mean the susano is slower than base, just means that even above base sasuke it’s still slow compared to jigen
Edo Madara vs wm Obito is a close fight. They are stated to be equal ,so the fight could go either way. Lore wise I feel Madara would win high diff. It’s interesting when you get juubito vs sage Madara. 1 eyed juubidara. Than you get hypothetical dms Obito. Is dms Obito a beast without the So6p chakra? Would he be as strong as dms kakashi? Would be surpass dms kakashi with the So6p. 3 eyed juubidara could be wanked above Hagoromo. I can explain why. Instances is Madara wins the majority. Dms Obito could possibly win ,although the limbo. It’s a weird match up nonetheless broken characters. I’d say dms Obito would scale higher with speed at least. Madara in his forms is more of a powerhouse while Obito is a haxed character.
Narrative wise Madara wins all which is kinda cringe. WM Obito is almost featless compared to the different Madaras despite how strong he is on paper/scaling wise. I dont like Madara as a character
@@TFTAlecUchiha wm Obito featless what he literally the Obito with the most feats bar juubito
@@TFTAlecUchiha wm obito is not featless
This version of obito has the Most feats
Prime hagaromo washes 3 eyed madara
@@tistakere5055 Lore wise and feat wise Hagoromo doesn’t. He pretty much scales no where combat wise and we have no real feats to scale him. The only thing we know is that he is weaker than kaguya. He states that Juubito is rivaling his prime and that 1 eyed juubidara was regaining his full former strength. 1 eyed juubidara was getting no diff’d by base teen So6p Naruto and Sasuke. 2 eyed juubidara is a lot stronger than he absorbed the god tree and than got more power ups. 3 eyed juubidara should scale above him. He also should scale below adult So6p Naruto and Adult Sasuke. I can explain why. The only real thing you can say is that he “escaped death” when he didn’t he’s just not in the death realm. We’ve seen other otutsuki do that explicitly and we’ve seen actual humans do the same chakra technique he’s done. Prime Hagoromo scales pretty much no where and lore wise he most likely is getting defeated by 3 eyed juubidara.
if Madara makes a wood clone, and gets Obito to suck it up, then forces Obito to use Kamui to send his body parts to the Kamui realm (which is pretty easy), the wood clone would be able to stab Obito. Surprised how often this weakness is overlooked. When against multiple opponents, if obito sucks them up and they notice floating Obito parts in the space realm and attack if, it's nearly gg for Obito
Go back and read his fight against Torune and Fuu.
Notice he goes into the kamui dimension to retrieve Sasuke after capturing them yet they're nowhere to be seen
@@lancevance1893 you answered your own question,we dont see anything,we dont see the fight or anything,we dont even know if kishimoto taught of obitos weakness by that point.
I don't think that's how it works when Obito phases through things. He can't be sending his body parts to the Kamui dimension, as they don't literally disappear, they only become intangible. His ability to phase through things is separate from his ability to send things into the Kamui dimension, which is supported by the scan that claims his phasing is passive while absorbing things with Kamui is clearly active.
No the reason why kakashi hit óbito was because The eyes are linked
Same
When kakashi teleported his raikiri and he hit obito mask cause they’re linked
Sending any clone there won’t do anything
@@amogus1415 No. The only time someone accessed his intangible body inside the dimension was Kakashi who literally has his other eye. The two eyes are linked and you'd know that if you'd read Kakashi explaining Obito kamui after he teleports KCM Naruto's rasengan into the dimension while Obito is phasing
The Susanoo definitely increases speed, in the Sasuke vs Danzo fight Tobi says in the manga “He’s coming at him with the strongest, fastest susanoo he can” when his susanoo had regressed from armored to skeletal. In the anime jpn ver he says “Sasuke is attacking quick and hard with susanoo” and in English ver he says “Sasuke is pressing him with the super fast, super strong susanoo”
"He Can" meaning thats all Sasuke had left. If u pay attention u would understand that without Susano Sasuke is a lot faster. As Adult sasuke or after he gets his Renigan he can use the swap along side his Susano. But movement wise he really isn't all that fast.
@@jonikalemasi3062 yeah because it had regressed from the evolved armored Susanoo to the skeletal Susanoo
No it does not,I mean ishiki even says this is you guys going full power,he says the susano that thing is so slow and big.
No it does not,I mean ishiki even says this is you guys going full power,he says the susano that thing is so slow and big.
@@suuwoo He was just more powerful, to the point that Susanoo seemed slow in comparison to him, he also shattered the Perfect Susanoo with one kick, doesn’t mean that the Susanoo has a weak defense in Naruto. There’s just some characters who are stronger and can deal with Susanoo. Him saying that wouldn’t really mean it doesn’t increase power or speed, just that he was more stronger and faster.
I'm pretty sure Obito's limp state was because of Zetsu completely taking over, not just something psychological, but the mental nerf argument works because it happens to Minato to be weaker than Tobirama during the war (even in KCM2) in spite of being stated to be superior to him in base.
“Coulda been a whole hentai scene” timeoutttttttt
Juubi Madara stomped Minato, Gaara and Kakashi then Obito after Rinne Rebirth steals chakra from Juubi Madara. Once again, nothing beats plot armour
DMS Obito > Juubidara > Juubito > Rinnegan Sage Madara > EMS Madara > Edo Madara ~ Rinnegan Obito
Dub though I think 3 eyed madara is probably stronger
Rinnegan Obito summons the 10 tails and EMS Madara dies
I believe the reason that Kakashi's kamui was as strong as it was when he had dms, is because he was six paths amped. I don't think Obito would be six paths level with just DMS alone. I do think he'd be stronger then ems madara tho, cause it's still a ridiculously op power.
DMS Obito gets folded by Juubidara
@@breadslice1014 Madara doesn't have speed close to evading LR Kamui. Kakashi being a pathetic kamui user can warp mid sized objects instantly. Obito would literally kill Madara in one look.
Do dark Schneider vs somebody got damn seth
Obito accidentally transports Madara's limbo clone into kamui dimension and it just beats Obito from the inside like what Kakashi did, or Madara set aside the limbo clones and he can just shift between those clones. Either way it's gg.
but he can't. He either needs to touch limbo clone to send them to his dimension which he can't
Wait I’m confused about something now. Why did he use those chains befor like when he fought minato if they can hurt him from kamui dimension.
@@maxsteven3445 since he knew that, they can't do anything inside kamui dimensions, before they enter it. as an example torune and fuu are sucked into kamui dimensions they can't do a shit to obito. also if they caught by the chains theyre basicly can't do anything. as an example minato need to use flying raijin. normal ninja can't do that. since theyre hand are restricted by the chains. obito can easily chose to sucked them into kamui or kill them, or even genjutsu them
either way. the only people that can hurt obito is kakashi.
@@OmnishitpostENG alright still a little confused. It makes sense about the chains restricting the movement. But why is kakashi the only one who can hit him? Obito is teleporting the part of his body that would be inflicted by an attack to the kamui dimension. Doing so leaves the portion of his body in the kamui dimension vulnerable. Why is kakashi the only one who can damage it.
@@maxsteven3445 in anime he was the only one kurama chose to send in kamui dimensions. no one really knows why, he can send a clone of naruto it would be better. it probably just a test that kurama pull out. since kakashi can also get out from that kamui dimensions since he have kamui.
I like seeing the manga panels when you guys are talking
I think the susano is slower since jigen said the susano doesnt seem very fast
I think the avatars represent Defense and Offense respectfully, any time we see Susano its acting in a defensive way. From Itachi blocking/surviving Kirin to Sasuke using it to block Infinite T while every time we see the nine tails avatar its only more offensive ability, from the Haku punch to Baron mode
A lot of people don’t know that sasuke unlocks perfect sussano when he merged with naruto with the majestic attire against jubbito…people think he unlocks it once he gets six paths which is not the case
No he didn't
@@xmpl4810 go read the manga he unlocks perfect sussano when he merged with naruto against jubbito…that’s why the entire kyubbi is cloaked in chakra, I used to believe sasuke didn’t unlock it until he got his amp from hagaromo, but if u give it a closer look he unlocks it sooner…I can literally send u the panel if u want and fully break it down to u👌🏽
9:00
thats a nice 'tsukkomi' from 6
I thought he would act like it never happened lol
DMS Obito one shots Madara. Kakashi was EXTREMELY inferior to Obito and yet he can warp small to mid sized objects almost instantly. Obito can literally snipe Madara's head off in one look. Madara can't even activate limbo in time.
The only reason dma kakahshi was strong because he had so6p chakra
@@MWMTEE Which doesn't belong to him. DMS Obito would be 100x more OP than DMS Kakashi.
@@roycedsouza4632 obito wouldnt be stronger with out so6p chakra either dms isnt what puts them on that level its the s06p chakra
@@MWMTEE DMS Obito would still be able to content with Madara (at least Edo/Alive Hashi SM) tbh even without six paths chakra cuz of hax
@@MWMTEE Lol Madara without ten tails also gets clapped by base DMS Obito. Obito with six paths chakra also claps ten tails Madara.
Hey u guys should do Garou (Opm) VS Might Guy(Naruto) that would be dope
Hentai scene 🤣 anything goes in when it's offscreen 💀
Why did you make another channel? Lol.
Since when was this a debate , why would people ever think of this
cuz they were literally a duo and performed the exact same feats?
Seth, I like how your using this channel. keep it up❤
Six has me rolling
Remember that time when the byakugan was at par with the sharingan,
Well I've forgotten and I don't think masashi kishimoto Remembers too
I mean more size = more distance so a Susanoo swing moving at the same “speed” would be faster at least at the tip of the blade.
Ya atleast if it doesn't add any additional weight
I really wish it had simply been that Obito could only resist Physical attacks, still being harmed by environmental or pure chakra based attacks.
This makes it more balanced.. but i like how broken kamui is
He was one of the final villains so he kind of had to be OP
@@alyx669 it would have made getting the rennigan more impactful as he could then avoid practically everything with absorption
@Flux that's actually an interesting theory. I always chocked it up to obito having far owed chakra than the average uchiha
Madara saying the susanoo is his max power does not necessarily mean he’s faster…. It could BE his ultimate destructive power, but it could still be slower
I don't think it's slower or anything, it doesn't add any weight so madara atleast has his own body speed, because if susano'o itself isn't weighted then it shouldn't affect his normal speed
@@anshumanrath6703 Ishiki/Jigen said the Susanoo was slow.
@@GeneFOX70 jigen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>kaguya/hagoromo
@@GeneFOX70 False.
@@itwasntoptional2513 "It doesn't seem to be especially fast." Jigen after seeing the Susanoo
A more interesting match up would be White Mask Obito vs EMS Madara.
obito
@@RanMaru144 Maybe
I would say Obito would win and even if you give him the kyuubi i argue Obito can wrestle the control away from EMS Madara since he did it when he was fourteen year old and a base Sharigan so a way older Obito with a Ms and Rinnegan should easily beat EMS Madara in genjustu
@@gameuniverse5973 obito can also just take the 9 tails with the gedo mazoo
@@sinoxi2493 not just that obito has all the other rinnegan abilities he didn’t use them against Naruto cause Naruto knew the counters ems madara wouldn’t
Evangelion Unit 01 (both EoE and Rebuild) vs Trigon.
They do need to be constructed.
I mean we do know your nental is a thing in naruto that can mess up your conscious and unconscious mind state to weaken your opponents like how genjustu works with certain justu
Its stated there equal in strength and obito actually blitzes kcm2 naruto so obito > kcm2 ~ edo madara, and kamui is passive so madara cant win, obito had better genjutsu showings although its implied they're relative, so I've got obito high diff edo madara, then juubidara > juubito obviously and I have a hot take but dms obito > juubidara, he reacts to kaguya twice and can just send him to kamui then gg, happy to debate these takes aswell
How does obito “blitzing” kcm 2 give you the implication that he’s faster than madara? There’s no evidence you drew from to draw that conclusion. KCM 2 naruto tries TWO blitz attempts on madara and gets embarrassed both times.
KCM2 only had half of Kurama and Madara is superior to the full Kurama, so Madara is obviously stronger than KCM2 Naruto
@@itwasntoptional2513 yes but madaras feats are only him being relative to kcm2 nothing more, prove edo madara is faster than kcm2 then
@@cypherbrittainnethegodofsl4988 im talking about speed, and madara is only relative to kcm2 naruto anyway and base naruto is relative to 50% kuruma and kcm1 alone is more than a 2x amp so kcm1 is above full power anyway so that's not good scaing
@@weka420
Disagree. Since Madara is like more than twice KCM2 Naruto, he should also be faster than Naruto. Because KCM2 Naruto tried to use Super Mini Tailed Beast Bomb and Madara just react to it no problem. He also fought Hashirama
@Seth
How about Sage Hashirama against Sage Kabuto? I think Kabuto should be allowed Edo Tensei, even if it's limited to just Kakuzu, Itachi, Nagato, Deidara. Sasori, since Kabuto used Edo tensei defensively when Tobi attempted to attack him, we know he's at least capable of controlling 5(6)(but not gonna bring up Madara) in a battle scenario, Or a power-scale on Kabuto with all his edo's would be great, no retractions, because he's probably the most slept on powerhouse in the show.
Well considering a nerfed hashirama beat kabuto’s strongest edo tensei, who he himself buffed into having abilities that he didn’t have in his prime, it’s safe to say that hashirama destroys kabuto before his summons come out
@@KingJinzo2125 This statement is just an assertion based on power, tell me ability wise, how Hashirama gets passed Kabuto's haxxed abilities? Like Kabutos layers of auto healing, infinite sage Chakra thanks to Jugo & harm avoidance with his liquid body and Harm evasion with Sage mode? Also keep in mind, Kabuto would have Intel on Hashirama being the founding Hokage, but Hashirama would have no Intel on Kabuto, so he'd have to just test his abilities to find most of them can be avoided, or healed from, then of course if 5-6 edos are allowed or not, or if we don't restrict Kabuto at all, he has on record, from the manga about 36-38 unkillable edos Hashirama would have to try sealing on top of stopping Kabuto.
@@KingJinzo2125 Also, I'm sorry but that last part of your statement, is just, idk, not smart "Yeah Hashirama can kill Kabuto before he has times to clap his hands to summon edo's." Is just to underestimate, what, is Hashirana gonna use his 10,thousand Buddha palm as soon as the match starts? Hashirama might not even have abilities that can kill Kabuto, when you consider it's primarily crushing with wood release, Kabutos snake body should hard counter that, plus he can just turn into liquid and get past whatever defense Hashirama should put up with wood release.
@@jibbobdion5072 there’s literally nothing kabuto can do to compete with hashirama unless you give kabuto the advantage via plot. Something like being hidden away where hashiramas own, vastly superior sage mode can’t detect him, and start the fight without hashirama knowing what’s going on. Because anything else where hashirama knows what’s going on results in an instant hashirama victory
@@jibbobdion5072 your whole argument isn’t smart. As big of a threat kabuto is, what makes you think hashirama wouldn’t go all out as soon as he realizes that? The fact that he’s a perfect sage would be alarming enough for hashirama to go all out. And that nonsense bout him being a snake and avoiding being crushed is the biggest amount of head canon I’ve heard in quite a long while. The only way kabuto has a chance is in a scenario where he has every advantage, and at that point you can put in damn near any strong character and they’d do the same
the limp state was after black zetsu took obito’s body
10 tails madara wasn’t fast enough to counter kamui
Doubt his PS would help
He could just make enough clones and time his attacks until kamui ran out
@@streetguru9350
Attacking obito for 5 mins straight without him deactivating and activating is the most difficult thing you can do in the entire verse .
First
You’d need óbito in mid air on a free fall for 10mins straight
Secondly
You’ll need your attacks to be perfectly sync so obito doesn’t get that 1 split sec to solidify and reset the 5mins count down
Finally
Pray he doesn’t use izanagi cause if he revived himself
Your effort is now pointless and have to start again
It took konan 15 years w 600billion paper bombs
That’s 600,000,000,000 paper bombs
@@ExtraCGfx you merely need to keep an object lodged inside him without letting him escape. Shadowing his movements for example.
@@streetguru9350 which objects? Obito can enter the ground and pop out anywhere 😒
@@ExtraCGfx madara has plenty of tools, he can also simply make his own through wood style. Could for example whip out a ton of spears to make the attempt. Not sure about genjutsu either as well.
Like he'd have to keep a deep forest emergence attack going for the duration or something similar. But it doesn't have to be large scale or a wide AoE.
Best intro ever: i think we just fuckin do it who cares
Ayeee noti gang
Obito no diffs all ages
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
I have a video recommendation kid Lee and neji vs Sarada and base mitsuki
DMS Obito > DMS Madara
nope.
@@joseole1117 yes, Juubi Madara couldn’t even overcome Kamui from a half dead obito LMAO
@@norbit6780 it would take a while but i think madara would be able to eventually exhaust obito, i mean does obito have ems? cause without it the strain would make him go blind before he could fully contain madara imo. Now sure any live form of madara would be dead prob but edo is a whole other ballgame. i mean with perfect susasno im not sure obito could teleport inside his susano but perhaps.
also in the event of a draw madara would be much more of a threat if they both went blind because madaras susano would thrash obito's.
@@joseole1117 obito has hashirama cells so he wont go blind
Obitio got then ten tails ripped out of him a little before he was in that limp state so he should have already been dead I think that's why he was out of it though.
Obito himself released the divine tree (weakening himself) long before his failure.
The Madara hentai theory was hilarious 🤣
Erm obito had all the tailed beasts ripped out of him at that point…
Six sounds like he's high on cough syrup
What about when Six path Sasuke teleported his entire Susannoo vs Six path Naruto? I don't know if that translate to speed amp but that's what came to mind when Seth ask the question.
Wonder Woman Stomps Madara No Diff
Big fight master of vs student
I’m confused as to why Edo Madara vs WM Obito is a debate and how anyone could come to the conclusion that Obito would win.
Because he had to be nerfed heavily so that he doesn't shit on Naruto. Obito wasn't even using half his powers throughout the show.
Because it’s literally shown that their jutsu potency, attack speed and reaction times are the exact same?? Edo Madara still wins tho very high diff
@@norbit6780 if you say so bro lol
@@DarkSkinDoffy “if you say so” my guy it’s literally shown in the manga lol. Their Fire style jutsu’s are the exact same size and travelled at the exact same speed, Obito’s Giant shuriken move at the same speed as Madara’s Yasaka Beads and they both reacted to and tagged KCM 2 Naruto numerous times. Ik it’s hard for you to accept/conceive the fact that Obito is relative or at the very least the same level as Edo Madara especially since Madara is seen to do a lot more flashy and destructive stuff like seth mentioned whereas Obito just phases through attacks and seals you.
@@DarkSkinDoffy like idk how u can say that when seth literally brings up how relative they are in this video lol did u just type this comment and dip? LMFAO
Susanoo doesn't amp speed
They use more speed sometimes but thats not the same thing
There are no statements or feats showing it to be stronger, that's not like ultimate proof or anything but like even when ppl fight with and without susanoo you never hear like
Jigen comment on how they're faster even if they're still weak
Or the Kage say the sasanoo isn't only stronger it's faster, it's beating us worse
Or anything like that
To beat kamui madara could do the thing with the fumes like he did against the kage
At the least add subtitle’s. If you wanna start a podcast then by all mean. This random timeout in a class room is beyond the topic.
White mask Obito with his army vs Sage Mode Kabuto with his army?
Isn't madara apart of Kabuto's army
@@allisbeneathme3350 kinda, yeah
Take out Madara and put sage kabuto with the whole army vs Obito. That would be awesome.
@@Dj-fb8bs Its actually more complicated,:
One one side you have White mask Obito
hundred thousand White zetsus,
Black Zetsu,
the Gedo Mazo, and
7 tailed beast, with him possibly being able to do the 6 paths of pain with the tailed beast.
VS
Sage Mode Kabuto with his edo army which has :
the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist,
The Sound Ninja 5
Multiple people with Kekkei Genkai,
4 former Kage,
5 Akatsuki members,
former jinchuurikis,
and Madara F***ing Uchiha.
Obito would have a gedo statue with seven tailed beasts inside of it
Not sure why people would think Susano'o amps speed. I dont think we ever saw any Uchiha be faster with it nor comment on being faster with it and from a logical standpoint, Susano'o is a jutsu which is constantly taxing ones chakra pool. I could imgine that it drains your chakra pool faster and therefore could potentially slow your shunshin down.
There is that one statement of obito describing the sussano as super strong and super fast in the danzo fight
@@badassproductions4734 He wasnt talking about the susanoo itself but the arrow Sasuke fired. Sasukes susanoo couldn't even move that fast
@@ice2557 that wouldn't make sense since sasuke hardly used the arrow, plus the sussano itself was just kind of blitzing danzo. The only time danzo evades sasuke's attacks is when he's not in his sussano like when he charged at him with his sword to cut him in half
@@badassproductions4734 It doesn't matter how much the arrow was used. Sasuke used it once and Obito was there to see it and its immense speed. The susanoo doesnt make you faster. Pretty sure it would be commented on if it did. Sasuke was also using shuriken on danzo and had him use Izanagi instead of dodging. Danzo is fodder
@@ice2557 The statement was about him pressuring danzo so he uses up his izanagi. The arrow was used middle of the fight and its the attacks with the sussano itself that took out most of his lives, the arrows barely contributed. Lastly if the statement referred to the arrows speed then it would have been the super strong sussano with its super fast arrows, not super strong super fast sussano.
my argument for this debate is that madara not only knows how kamui works but has way more stuff than obito for example wood clones that could pressure obito into overusing kamui, deforest emergence with katon to smoke him out, his hashirama cells giving him a better healing factor, his higher chakra reserves, his stronger visual prowess (since he has EMS) and the fact that edo's basically have infinite chakra
Obito will lose without his bijus, this is common sense.
I thought we where using base Madara.
I know you commented this a while ago but your argument is completely not relevant to this debate. Edo madara doesn’t have wood style nor the knowledge to counter kamui unless he somehow studied obito while dead, madara literally kills himself as soon as obito understands what the eye of the moon plan is meaning he never saw the kamui in action.
Edit: Also we have no evidence of his visual prowess being better then obito’s
wished we got this fight hahahaha
doesnt madara have a tag on obito tho.
I missed this stream,I was napping 🤬
we need naruto (characters) speed scales
As nodt vid ulquiora?
I can't think of a single match up that would be fair any regular version of obito loses bad except juubito who would mid to low diff madara
White mask obito with 6 jinchuriki vs kid madara
couldn't edo madara just wait for obito's chakra reserves to max out and win out entirely through endurance. Ya it would take a while but madara has enough firepower to constantly keep obito on the defensive, forcing him to exhaust his resources in order to handle his attacks. Also, I think it's mentioned somewhere or at least implied, obito suffers some sort of strain from the rennigan due to its overwhelming power requiring an abundance chakra just to control it. Idk, kamui's so broken this seemed like one of the few feasible win scenarios for madara.
Living madara vs orange mask obito i dont see madara winning. He doesnt have a attack that can get past kamui. And obito can just walk right through susanno. If obito starts losing he can just phase into the ground to get away i dont see anyways how madara kills him.
Madara and obito are very relevant but I think is just a bad opponent for madara he has the one hack that makes him better. Madara and hashirama are stronger but obito and minato are more talented ! They are like the better version of them ! And sasuke and Naruto are a better them now it’s kawaki n boruto ! So madara loses ! Obito takes the win at high difficulty unless we add zestu to the equation.
Almost laughed 😐....
How's Minato & Obito more talented when Hashirama and Madara have been fighting, mastering and manipulating jutsus since age 3?😹
Madara claps Obito with his eyes closed
@@Rck-vert in a serious fight how only way madara wins is if his actual ability of ems is time reversal and the only time he did that was not cannon and he still got fucked up after he used it a complete flaw I believe madara is stronger but obito is just a bad opponent and is a better madara I’m sorry! Same for hashirama and minato hashirama is stronger but minato is just a bad opponent for him he couldn’t stop minato from touching him neither could madara people forget madara tried to stab hashirama he also died from being stabbed in the back he was only saved by izunagi it’s telling that a fatal wound would kill any one of them if done at the right time ! It’s the same reason Naruto daughter knocked him out cold but he fights on a greater level than momoshiki !!!! One stab to the brain in an instant would kill any one of them !!!
Can’t say he wouldn’t look at where he had the kunai plsced when fighting bee and A . It was right over bee head like he could have just stabbed him right n the brain . N he walks off ! Lol madara died from being stabbed n the back and thought hashirama died before him !! Proof !!!
@@Rck-vert also same reason kids are smarter than there parents right now ! They get to learn from the elders experiences and the world gets clever and make things easier like how when the sage had sons very few could mold chakra and do any justu at all ! By the time the war hit its thousands hundreds of thousands who can !
Minato vs Obito would be cool. I wanna know if KCM Edo Minato could take White Mask 6 jinchuriki Obito
Well WM Obito can summon the 10 tails. Don't see what Minato can do against that.
He can also use the gedo statue to pull kurama out of Minato
Should be able to do so pretty handily, a shittier KCM1 Naruto was keeping pace with Obito and Minato is at both a higher level of it, immune to Kamui, and significantly faster than Obito. And he just plays with the jinchuriki at that point as well.
Kcm Minato and wm Obito (no jinchuriaki) would be an equal fight I believe.
@@if7723 huh kcm one Naruto was getting destroyed by the jinchuriki in v two when did he kept up with wm Obito
@@gameuniverse5973 When he beat those, while supporting the rest of the entire war, and obito still couldn't suck him up. Kurama helped to actually end the Jinshuriki but Naruto as doing fine keeping pace. He couldn't win vs edo because hax.
Why is this even a debate ?
ikr? Dms obito godstomps every version of Madara
I don't know Seth, Jigen just one shot Sasuke trough perfect Susano and dodge the attack with ez, sems not that fast.
Also wouldnt madara ems be way more powerful vould just do that too
Yamcha solos both
Y’all just so good it doesn’t matter how planned it is 🔥
Also obito got ganged by 3 gorillas 🦍 that Madura summoned
+PZMKSD Will you or someone else explain to me who are these/those three gorillas that ''madura''/madara summoned.
@@noname-vl2ys ain’t gunna cap bro I don’t remember, I think it was a bad sex joke or something I was probably mad recked 😆
I just wanna say obito was so over powered they couldn't give him his own susanoa and they took his second eye away if we go all the way with this give him his broken ass susanoa and everything I think its a whole different fight no judgment to what u said in the video I just wanted to make the point
Jigen actually mentions that the Susano'o is powerful but slow.
Not really. Slow for him but he doesn’t say he’s slower. He says it’s speed isn’t too impressive and questions its defense as well and blows sasuke out of it anyway. By that logic it doesn’t amp defense either.
@@itwasntoptional2513 "It doesn't seem to be especially fast" is what he says about it.
Likewise, we never see any Uchiha activate Susano'o to blitz someone, further proving the point.
@@CanadianCrits No where does that correlate to the susanoo being slower. It’s not especially fast… TO HIM. He then questions its defense and one shots sasuke out of it. If you’re going to try and use this quote to say that the susanoo makes the user slower, I can also use the exact same statement and feat to say that it doesn’t enhance defense either. Jigen also saying it’s not especially fast implies that it enhanced its speed but not to such a degree that it was impressive to him. Bad argument.
@@CanadianCrits Thats your assumption. The quote doesn’t even remotely come close to what you’re saying. You’re reaching.
@@itwasntoptional2513 It seems that you're the one reaching here bud.
1. It's not my assumption. We literally never see a Susano'o user activate the Complete Susano'o and then blitz someone whome they couldn't have before.
2. I never once claimed that Susano'o makes you slower, that was you shoving words into my mouth.
Kamui Juubito
But kakazu would still win, right?
kakuzu stomps no diff his durability is off the charts man he could take anything Madara and Obito have to throw at him what they gonna do? Nothing Kakuzu blitzes and 1 shots them both bruh.
Yamcha and krillin vs Naruto verse
Obito already knew what happened to rin didnt he? Thought he told kakashi he knew what happened in there fight
Far as her havin the jabee in her n jumping in to his hand to die
Madara vs shin
Dms obito (pre juubi amp) > white mask obito
Yea that’s obvious lol
Dms Obito is comparable to juubito at the very minimum
Ratio on that comment for you is still a L lol
WM Obito can summon the 10 tails and its game over for Edo Madara
If he summons the 10 tails it wouldn’t do much perfect susano would be enough. They actually are equals (wm Obito+ edo madara). Stated to be equal. Fight goes either way.
@@Dj-fb8bs 10 tails solos perfect susanoo wdym
@@ice2557 It got binded by one of hashirama’s deity gates alone and perfect susano was ~ to his wood golem. Feat wise it doesn’t.
@@Dj-fb8bs Yeah. "Binded" not defeated and the deity gates are much better at binding than the susanoo or wood golem. Besides the perfect susanoo greatest feats is destroying mountains whereas the ten tails was stated to be able to destroy entire continents. Also Logically its larger than the susanoo meaning more mass meaning more strength.
@@ice2557 The perfect susano slash was able to destroy multiple mountains. That’s not the full power of perfect susano that’s a slash. Perfect susano is easily country-continental. Ten tails couldn’t even destroy the jinchuriaki like 8 tails they still could tank attacks. In terms of actual usability perfect susano is more versatile as 10 tails has no combat just tailed beast bombs. Perfect susano can run and jump equating ultimate defense. I don’t think perfect susano can “beat” ten tails ,but I also don’t see it losing. It’s clear that hashirama and Madara are ten tail level threats by themselves. I’m just saying the fight would go either way as wm juubito is stated to be equal to edo madara. Meaning despite everything in their arsenal they are relative in power.
Edo Madara stomps White Mask Obito
Obito didn’t lose kamui as a ten tails jinchuriki all he said was he couldn’t pass through things
I honestly think madara was suppressed for most of the war until Hashirama came, he seemed to want to enjoy himself by fighting everyone and there’s a deal of things to imply this, but it’s up in the air, I’m jus sayin if rinnegan obito scales to edo madara then he should be ~ to kcm minato and BSM naruto, also edo madara ONLY thinks he could fight juubito and overall beat him when getting sage mode, yes that’s in regards to only sage Jutsu working vs juubito but sage modes also a big amp, also susanoo and kurama avatar only look slow cuz they’re giants, iirc obito in the danzo fight Hyped up susanoo speed and at least their attacks like susanoo arrow are super fast
I feel like Madara was overhype himself that he can beat juubito with getting Hashirama sage mode and becoming alive like how he overhype himself that he could beat Hashirama with the kyuubi
@@gameuniverse5973 idk i dont recall him every being like "haha with the kyuubi you cant take me hashirama" and every time madara is talking about hashirama its regarding how hashirama is the "only one that could stop him" or how hes "the strongest shinobi" i think madara is open to admit people are stronger than him so i dont think he was hyping himself, in the anime he even declares might guy as "the strongest" and he does admit if he did fight juubito with sage mode it wouldnt be easy as he thanks naruto for saving him the trouble, his statements here seem to be more about his knowledge and what he seen rather than being cocky, he saw the entire fight
@@doctorfloppa2021 he only said that about Hashirama after the kyuubi fight and he literally said too Hashirama that you think you can kill me at any time Hashirama when he was looking down at Hashirama with the ps kyuubi avatar
@@gameuniverse5973 he only said that cuz he felt hashirama was talking down to him "i dont want to kill you" and even then the shinsu senju really only destroyed the susanoo as kurama was unscathed and even after hashirama put him to sleep theyre implied to fight equally until the end of the fight when hashirama subs a wood clone and the databook even says that theyre equal and that hashirama changing for his village is why he won
@@doctorfloppa2021 Madara still though he was above Hashirama at that moment into Hashirama slap him with the kyuubi ps combo it would be a repeat with juubito him thinking with being alive,one Rinnegan m,and sage mode he can take juubito until he does Six crimson raid formation four juubi bombs then just sticks the finger too Madara for thinking he had a chance
That makes no sense cuz óbito knew about the rin thing so that argument don’t stand
He didn't. He knew that he had the seal implanted in his heart but he didn't know that Madara planned everything. Go back and read the chapter.
When Madara tells him, Obito is shocked.
🥥
I love Obito, Obito is my fav between the two but Madara wins. Man damn taught the guy all he knows.
Using that logic Jiriaya and kakashi beat Naruto because they taught him all he knows lol but yea Madara wins high diff.
Not true at all .
Madara taught obito about a couple things .
Obito taught himself wood release at age 13 .
Obito taught himself genjutsu that surpasses itachi and rivals kotoamtasuki.
Obito is the most advanced space time user in the entire series .
Madara cant use space time jutsu at all .
Obito can sense people in other dimensions , and can even sync his own kamui to allow him to travel to any dimension .
Madara has never accomplished anything even close to that regarding space time .
Minato admitted that obito was a superior space time jutsu user at age 14 than either he or the second hokage are .
That's insane.
Obito learned how to extract the nine tailed fox and put it under his control .
Obito learned how to use his kamui to enhance his fire techniques making his katon tied with madara for the largest in the series .
Obito learned how to control 7 bjuu at once which is something no one else in history has accomplished.
I'm just gonna be honest with you madara taught obito only a few things.
Most of what madara taught obito was knowledge of the world, the rinnegan and the six paths techniques and lore.
Everything obito knows about combat he taught himself though .
Edo madara and obito were said to be equals .
Alive Rinnegan madara could possibly beat obito but I still don't see how he hits him .
Rinnegan obito can see limbo and dms obito can sense limbo with six paths sage Chakra.
Dms obito is just crazily powerful.
Obito wont be able to damage madara while using kamui. I will always stand by obito needing kamui to actually suck madara away to be able to win. The problem with that though is that he has to solidify to do that so he would get fucked when he tries to materialize to attack.
Actually he did not only damage Madara while in Kamui but also stole some biju chakra from him. It's insane considering that this was dying Obito stealing chakra from Juubi Madara. But I don't consider it a fight since Obito duped Madara going for the handshake
Obito can use the gedo statue to one shot Madara with the soul dragon jutsu.
Edo Madara has fake edo tensei eyes so he can't summon the gedo statue
@@lancevance1893 if someone like hanzo (who isn’t weak btw) was able to blitz that, then I am 100% sure that madara can.
@@retroking2749 well The dragon stopped before consuming Hanzo. It also consumed others before him.
WM Obito can also summon 10 tails and it will be game over for Edo madara then. No excuses
@@shadowsun649 6 paths chakra left over plus black zetsu amps who he is attached too. So he is stronger and to top it off it was basically a sucker punch. If madara is trying to kill obito in a fight he wont let his guard down to shake his hand. Your point is invalid
The real match would be DMS Obito six path vs Alive rennegan madara six path
Obito claps and it’s not even close, it’s like putting Sage alive Madara up against Kid obito lol
Obito Shat in his pants when Kabuto pulled out a coffin with Madaras corpse in it…video over Madara won
Jokes aside…As powerful and destructive as Madara is all his finishing attacks (Fire styles, perfect Susanoo blades&magatama, Giant Meteor) are physical so Obito should be able to kamui to avoid death, Madara isn’t really a good matchup. Rinnegan alive Madara has the best chances because of Limbo BUT Obito has a rinnegan as well so he’d be able to see the clones and work around them? As crazy as it sounds I think Madaras best chance would be his 1eye rinnegan senjutsu enhanced form against Juubito because Obito loses Kamui so he’s completely vulnerable to Madaras senjutsu enhanced attacks And he has to worry about the Gedo statue yanking the Juubi out of him
@@highofflife3307 that was before he had the Rinnegan you do realize that
People dont really watch show and make their handcanon up their argue shikamaru could beat obito if a random panel said something lol
Obito beats everyone kamui is too broken so broken kishimoto did not give him his other eye and guess what when he actually did get DMS arguably kakashis susano is the strongest
Madara Made obito and he slaps any version of obito
Obito wins
Marada slaps
@@ninjigaming6079 Minato slaps both
Madara takes the W
@@guythatgoesbythenamekay7954 I could see obito winning that
@@windygod1973
Minato gets slapped by both
coc n ball