Orientalism & Western Academia | Imam Talk Podcast | Imam Tom Facchine & Dr. Shadee Elmasry
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2024
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0:00 Dr. Shadee Elmasry's Personal Journey
23:23 Historical Critical Method & Western Academia?
49:01 Round 2 Follow up?
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Watch Part 2 of this Podcast: th-cam.com/video/DCtBVbDKlYA/w-d-xo.html
SubhanAllah 🎉
Awesome podcast!
We need another Impossible state video 👀
Does this mean you'll also be having Dr. Shadee on BT?! Pleeeeease
@@sammuhe's already been on BT
@@----f
What?! Did I miss that?! Can you give me a rough date?
@@sammuThey did a video together around 8 months ago, it was to do with Spirituality. You'll easily find it if you search it up on TH-cam
This is like an avengers movie to me. The people I love coming together. Allah bless you both.
Salam Alaekum, great talk with Dr.Shadee.
The section on the historical critical method reminded me of when I was reading about the Crusades and the way the author described Nur Ad-Din was essentially another 'warlord' who utilized religious teachings and focus on the Ulema as simply a religious propaganda and although he was associated with being pious and very devout he was *really* just using religion for his own political gains, he was just "smarter" than other other warlords.
And I was sitting there thinking...how in the world does he get to that conclusion? It seems the European experience with Christianity and the Christian clergy is essentially blanketed over Islam as well.
A bit frustrating but you learn to identify it.
Historical critical method = no proof but a pinch of judgement and pure speculations.
Seeing both these eminent teachers together, talking, is literally a dream! Love both Imam Tom and Dr Shadee!
that whole segment on consistency with the secular world view or lack thereof should be put in a snippet and shared on different platforms.
Yes!
I am so sad this doesn't have a part 2 or 3,4,5. This is beneficial for the ummah - make this a series please!
Part 2 coming soon In'sha'Allah
Me: what book should I read? Oh, listen to an episode of TH-cam from Imam Tom and his guests. Always inspiring! Jazakum Allah khair
Part 2 of this please, and Mohammed Hijab soon insha'Allah
The worst part about this conversation is that it’s too short. Especially agree with some Muslims in the west “playing nice” and being naive. This world is a battlefield, an arena of constant struggle against enemies apparent and hidden. Those who feel otherwise are just not perspicacious enough. The only rules and consistency we have to uphold is to our own principles and shariah. Everything else is realpolitik and fair game.
Dr.Shadee .. Nuts and Bolts / Meat and Potato Da'wah . No Jargon , no air of sophistication. May Allah bless you both.
Engaging with the full spectrum of Muslim Da'ees is the way to go insha'Allah. Great conversation
Two of my favourite islamic personalities/teachers together alhamdulillah. Please get a part 2 arranged
May Allah give you both the Best of both Worlds. Looking forward to Part 2
Two of my favorite people on one podcast. Love it.
Masha Allah about time 😊
Round 2 please!!
Please do another!!!!
Def need a round two
Jazaakumullaahu khairan brothers. Very nice discussion
This was an excellent discussion. Jazaakum Allahu Khayran
Interesting topic, looking forward to it.
Enjoyed this podcast
Masha Allah. Beautiful discussion 🙌🏾
Amazing!
Wow Sub7an’Allah. You’re talking about things I realized, and also things I wonder about that I haven’t put into words, and haven’t heard anyone talk about it so thoroughly.
May Allah bless you for sharing this wisdom.
MashaAllah… May Allah bless you guys for this… we don’t need to play the game, we need to make the game!
سلام عليكم..
Great to see two of my favourite Scholars together ❤️
Love that الحمد الله
As Salamou Alaikum, extremely engaging and relevant discussion.
Assalaam alaikum, please consider uploading these podcasts to services such as Apple Podcasts or pocket casts!
I can't stop laughting at 39:00 onwards.
Great discussion and I love this series on Imam Talk Podcast.
May Allah bless you guys all. Salam
O yeah they just reminded me Dr yaser qadhi on "consistency" and I got so upset so lost him totally.
You lots will never be bitten coz you both are so brave "masha'Allah"
The last point Sheikh made is so thought provoking. They accept hijab only if it is a desire of self. But not if you submit your will to Allah.
Very knowledgeable Sir 👍🏽
I agree that historians will have their subjective perspectives. This is also true for Muslim historians, which is kind of the point of the "western historian" approach.
As one of my colleagues once told me, "husn al-Zann is an interpersonal/living community ethic. It is NOT a valid epistemology"
First of all, history as a discipline means vastly different things in different eras. In the premodern period, history was intended for moral instruction, not the recounting of facts and the search for naturalistic causes. The histories of classical Muslim scholars are more in the tradition of Herodotus than modern history. If we're looking for a true Islamic analogue to history in the modern sense, it would be the field of hadith, which is much more epistemically scrupulous, not tarikh or seerah.
Second, husn-al-zann is not part of hadith epistemology.
But your comment misses something much more structural; the issue is not about individuals having subjective perspectives, it's about entire fields of knowledge-production being animated by certain values, even metaphysical assumptions, yet posturing as authoritative and neutral. I could easily match your colleague's snarky remark and say "philosophical naturalism isn't much of an epistemology," but the asymmetry of power between institutions and epistemologies renders one of us as credible and the other as not.
If only historians studied political theory.
-Imam Tom
@@UTICAMASJID ❤
@@UTICAMASJID Brother Tom, when are you coming to the UK.
🌹🌹🌹❤️❤️❤️
Love the irreverent attitude towards secular Islamic studies
❤
The problem in a nutshell is that whoever putting that binary of Madrasah and Western Academia fails to understand the sacred/blessed foundation on which Islamic sciences are based. Making the comparison between both totally sets both fields on the same ground, whereas Islamic sciences are entirely different in terms of scope of study and theoretical foundations. On the other side, Western Academia is purely based on materialism and individualism. This is not a new thing to look at, but rather it represents a waged war or a revolution against God in all senses. In that light, there is no common ground between Islamic Sciences and Western Academia. Finally, Islamic sciences - even when pondering upon physics or chemistry- deals with these territories for a wholeheartedly different hypotheses and beliefs.
اللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَىٰ سَیِّدِنَا مُحَمَّدٍ اللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلِّمْ
Allāhumma ṣalli ʿalā Sayyidinā Muḥammad(in), Allāhumma ṣalli ʿalayhi wa sallim
O Allah, send prayers upon our Master Muhammad, O Allah, send prayers and peace upon our Master Muhammad.
Paradigm separated from the symbiotic state
Get Imam Chris Caras on.
Indeed @sarim9574, enormously frustrating to have that spirit of doubt and evidenceless skepticism taken to absurd heights.
That's a juxtaposition of their experience over Islam and the Muslims, and a wrecked approach.
😕 I trusted you, Imam Tom. Madinah graduate. You mention Mufti Muhammad ibn Muneer and Tahir Wyatt. I didn't know you were down with Yasir Qadhi.
I really don't get this call to unity. Why can't we have unity while being clear about where we stand? Shadee has no problem spreading Asharism and Sufism while "uniting" with other Muslims. Even in a supposedly neutral discussion on blogging theology, somehow, he managed to bring in تأويل of Allah's attributes and inauthentic quotes of رابعة العدوية.
Why is it only the people that try to hold onto the آثار that are told to put their weapons down and not spread what they believe to be the truth?
What I find ironic in all of this is, the -isms that we are "uniting" to oppose stem from the very problem kalam and tasawuf stem from (and I by tasawuf, I do not mean تزكية; I mean, the innovated nonsense most of them are upon today): putting the intellect before revelation.
What is the difference between saying, the ظاهر of لما خلقت بيدي is problematic and saying the ظاهر of الرجال قوامون على النساء? The mistake was made 400 years ago?
By Allah, I am tired of Allah of this. I grew up in Toronto in the era when TROID was dominating the internet and emgaging in excessive tabdee. In response, I was always inclined to be more accepting...but this is too much. We just accept anything now? How can I accept that which the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم did not do, nor his companions nor the two generations after them? These people openly say that they oppose the salaf. Is that not a gross violation of وأشهد أن محمدا رسول الله, اتبعوا ما أنزل إايكم من ربكم ولا تتبعوا من دونه أولياء and اليوم أكملت لكم دينكم? Have the found a way that is more guided than that of Muhammad ibn Abdillah صلى الله عليه وسلم?
What is it Imam Malik said,رحمه الله:
ولن يصلح آخر هذه الأمة إلا بما صلح به أولها
I do not mean to be disrespectful or cause problems, but I can't keep quiet anymore. It seems like everyone is preaching this unity upon Islam in name only. I'm open to hearing justification and being convinced.
Islam was never this complex. فقد كفيتم.
If there is government pressure on you or this is a matter of مصلحة, say so. I might even accept it. I'm tired of being gaslit. Im tired of being told everything is a valid difference of opinion.
Ibn Fulan. Rumi said,
If I live, I’m the Qur'ān’s servant evermore,
I’m the dirt of Muhammad the chosen one’s door.
If someone attributes to me anything more,
both the person and what they said, I abhor!
Islam is beautiful. You speak as if non-Salafi people derive their rulings from Mahabharata and Ramayana and the Bible. Salaam brother. Traditional Islam has lasted 1400 years Alhumdulillah. And what you see in Saudi Arabia today is the logical conclusion of Wahhabism. So learn and think. Relax, come and sit with the rest of us who love Allah and his rasool... Semantics don't really matter...
Did you watch the video? Because if you did you would see that Imam Tom was clearly disagreeing with YQ. Wouldn't that be as you say "unity while being clear where we stand" ?
- camera man
@@UTICAMASJID I did watch the video and it wasn't bad. It was the fact that it turns out that Imam Tom and Yasir have a close relationship that broke the camel's back, for me. Yasir Qadhi has a pattern of being underhanded in dealing with topics.
Somehow, being clear doesn't apply to our understanding of the tawheed, sunnah or aqeedah.
@@GharibBFulan Many people in the dawah scene know one another. YQ is not Imam Tom's Sheikh.
If you've followed Imam Tom for a while, you would know that Imam Tom holds Sheikh Abdullah ash-Shanqiti from Medina in high regards.
- camera man
Akhi, I was in the same situation as you until I put aside my prejudices and what the "Salafi" scholars were telling me to use my critical thinking skills and listen to who they were telling me not to listen to.
And guess what, I now understand what they were afraid of.
Let's take these questions as a starting point:
- Who carried out the Karbala massacre in 1801? And who were the victims?
- Why did the Saudi state wage war against the Ikhwan (not the Ikhwanis)?
- Why did the "Madkhalis" fiercely defend the presence of American troops on Arab soil and call the man who opposed it, Safar Al-Hawali, a khariji?
- Why did the "madkhalis" supported Gaddafi (while major ulema made takfeer on him) before betraying him in favor of General Haftar?
- How can one follow a madhab without following all its rules?
- Is it really a matter of following one of the four madhahib or a Salafi scholar?
- What if the Salafi (modern) scholars have an ijma on an issue and it goes against the madhab one is supposed to follow?
- Why not make taqlid to a Salafi scholar?
38:04 LOL... ahlul abjadiah
Assalamualaikum, please have brother Daniel Haqiqatjou on your podcast.
Brothers are you not sandboxing yourselves by aligning with the conservatives which is exactly from the foundation of the enlightenment?
Islam is neither on the Left or the Right and has some of both. Foundementally, Islam and religion is conservative. It's about what we want to conserve.
@@karimb972 Islam is not on the left or the right it is the straight path with many diversions to take you away. Follow the version of Islam that the Prophet Muhammad may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him. No racism, no sexism no discrimination of any human with the law of Allah as the absolute law for mankind. Justice comes from the devine laws of the creator. Seek justice and speak against injustice, don't have the mind to accept the suppression by staying quite you live in oppression. If you can't speak then you should move to a place you have freedom of speech. There is no tolerance otherwise you don't stand for anything. Islam is all about human rights, rights of the poor weak and needy above those with power and wealth. Equality and justice in society is moral fabric of Islam. I don't understand the Saudia version of Islam as they are human rights abusers, and are very racist to non Arabs especially South East Asians, the principals and fundamentals don't exist amongst Arab kings and leaderships. Islam has been hijacked by the least Islamic states that are really Islamaphobic.
Any chance of bringing Daniel Haqiqatjou on your show?
Lol
No thanks lmaooo
It's preferable not to give a platform to people that thrive on talking bad about other Muslims. At least until they desist from that path.
@Karim B Everyone talks bad about somebody! And this is a sad excuse for not having someone on your show. Not a Muslim thing to do at all
Even though he does some Dawah and great work on the modern world, he isn't an Imam.