Update: 1. I have used shim steel and Loctite Bearing Fit on the top bearing. 2. Ive shimmed up the top cap so it no longer bottoms on the outer race of the bearing. 3. Still using plastic compression ring. I don't believe the bearings are concentric and I don't want to damage the steerer using a metal ring (ridiculous)
I work in the largest bike shop in PNW and this is just a prime example of Cannondale being Cannondale. Sometimes they do good shit but most of the time they just do fucky shit. As far as your plastic shim goes, that fine, that's standard especially for carbon steerer.
They use a plastic bearing ring because with all the movement the metal ones, especially those thin shims wear and cut into the carbon steerer tube. It's called replacing one problem with another problem 😭
Oh yeh the other thing - why hasn't any brand added a simple rad or chmf to the compression ring lip? That'd stop the biting problem. They're all left sharp edged. Ridiculous.
@@PeakTorque It's an extra step in the process which adds cost. The same reason they went to press fit BB, cheaper to make and market it as an advantage. Brilliant!
I forgot to add. Lots of my colleagues who bought Cannondale on the bike 2 work scheme have had the same problem with the headset. They fixed it with belzona and then machining the hole again
That's pretty extreme. I've got some shim steel in there now with Loctite bearing fit. Hasn't budged yet. The other problem is the expander plug. It expands at the level below the stem clamp, not under the stem 🤦
I was watching this and wondered what Hambini would say. He did not disappoint! Anyway this video isca public service. Thank you. Sorry you are having to faf with this disaster.
Okay, I'm sure that Damon Rinard knows that bearings need to be mounted in correct sized holes to work correctly; You can hardly make it out of school without knowing that. It's also unlikely that he is in charge of production. I suspect the issues are a bit more complicated. Thoughts off the top of my head: 1) Can't get bean counters to pony up the money for tooling, jigging, or training. 2) Marketing wouldn't stand for any additional cost in the frames for something like inserts, 3) Marketing wouldn't stand for even 3g increase year over year in frame weight even if it meant headsets that don't have issues. 4) Poor feedback into engineering so that they have clue that this is even going on, which could even include falsified QC reports because there is a culture in the shop like that. 5) Production supervisors have quotas to meet for frames shipped per month and will let quality slide to meet quotas. Anyways it wouldn't be professional to raise any of these issues in public either. I'm not familiar with carbon manufacturing, so i can't say for sure, but it seems like it would be hard to maintain thin walls (light weight), high strengths, tight tolerances, and reasonable costs, all at the same time. Alloy cups for the bearings wouldn't help either because the hardened steel would wallow them out pretty fast I'd think and you'd likely need a thicker headtube to make that work as well.
@@Cynyr if he is an engineer worth his salt, he would do something about this rather than staying silent. If a rider crashed because of a steering issue, he would have nowhere to go and is gladly pursue him on behalf of the claimant for engineering negligence. You would not accept this on a car. Why accept it on a bike.
I don't think I've seen anything like this since looking at the Headset of a 1973 Rayleigh Chopper, which I think must have been assembled during the 3 day week on one of the days (Monday Morning) when the lights were off at the factory.
I had the same problem with my Cannondale Supersix Evo Hi-Mod Disc Ultegra (2017). The headset always had a little play from the day I built it up and I couldn’t figure out what the problem was. Eventually, the play created a deep compression in the carbon steer tube and I thought I needed to replace the fork entirely. The culprit was the plastic compression ring! The tolerance is not even close to being functional or safe on that part, which is shameful on an expensive bike, as you said. The solution, for me, was to replace the split compression ring with an aluminum ring, top cap to house it, and the fork ended up with a Cervelo aluminum insert inside to prevent failure down the line without having to pay for a new one of a different color. Cannondale will literally gaslight you when you mention the specific problem, which is unbelievable-should be illegal, in fact, given their warranty agreement, which is a binding contract that requires them to solve legitimate problems with their customer base as a result of manufacturing defects. I think we should round up every dissatisfied Cannondale customer and begin a class-action lawsuit! I bet we could find people who were seriously injured as a result of these exact same issues, which caused a crash/failure in the fork, which can be extremely dangerous on a descent, for example. To arms! To arms!
@@PeakTorque You should find a compression ring from somewhere like bike-components.. Just check out the bearing you have know and find a matching cane creek / fsa headset with the same bearing and find the compression ring part.
My 36 year old Shimano HP-6207 600EX headset still works perfectly. I've even purchased an FSA Duron headset as a replacement for £13 recently as I think that it might not reach 50 years use.
I'm pretty sure many Cannondale $10,000 super bicycle owners find some cigarette papers and some blue tack in there when they take apart their headsets.
Thanks for sharing this! In my case I have a Supersix Evo 2016 with a Seiko headseat and the compression ring is metal. I have the problem that the headset gets loose very frequently and was looking for a solution. I cannot say if my bearings are concentric or not, it is hard to see and don´t have a tool to measure it.
Bought it 2nd hand. But yes i do have the warranty card and i will be raising the issue with them officially, but sometimes it's better to just re-engineer short term.
Welcome to the world of cannondale everything is kick*ss on paper but once you ride it or start wrenching you realize they have the same qc as huffy and the "engeneerring/mechanical" design istn much better than huffy. Problem after problem
My 2019 lefty does this really bad. Was fine. Took of forks to fit a drop post refitted all good. 2 weeks later took of forks to sent to back for leaking seals. Refitted now rocks. Don't understand what I've done wrong. All the same bits have gone back correctly. Its almost like the top bearing not sitting in the frame flat.
Holy shit! My headset does all these things and all this time I thought I screwed something up! I’d never encountered anything like it on any other bike. I thought “this bike must be too high tech for my mechanic skills.” Omg. What a relief I thought it was just me. I kind of want to sell my super 6 now.
I also have a Cannondale Supersix Evo Hi Mod 2016 frame set. Updating the group set my bike mechanic found a 0.4mm indentation on the steerer tube that the compression ring created from moving back and forth. I never once felt play in the headset. Sent photos to Cannondale and wanted to lodge a warranty claim. After 3 long weeks they told me I had been riding the headset loose and it was my fault so they won't warranty the frame. Disgusting.
I have the same problem. When I am heavy braking i get a strong vibration in the fork. It can be very dangerous. Also braking on bad roads ... the same Vibration. I dont have any problems on my other 3 bikes, only on Cannondale supersix evo Hi mod disc ultegra di2 2018. I changed the compression plug and so i can thighten the headset more and it ist a litle bit better.
I think the dust cap is the culprit. I had a similar issue where the compression wasn't distributed properly. Shim the cap. I wouldn't shim the outer race because it could split the head tube.
Boris the Blade, as in, Boris the bullet dodger, don't see you round here much these days. Why you still suffer with it? Close to passing this slab on mate, its not even light.
Plastic compression ring is better than aluminum. "too loose". It'll wedge in there. Campy has always used plastic compression rings, although theirs is collet-style, uniform and tighter fitting. The gap on the frame sucks for sure, though. Guess you hadn't noticed or had problems with the gap between the crown and lower bearing, allowing crap from the front tire to shower the bearing.
I have a caad9 with the same problem. Solution was a cane creek replacement and I have to be extra precise with the preload adjustment. But it used to get a bit loose every 200 kms. It is terrible really.
I have a non Hi-Mod Evo and it has a metal compression ring - are you sure it's not the assembler? What you have doesn't even match what comes in the Cannondale headset kit for your bike...
I understand your compression ring is plastic and your bearing hole is oval but are you sure it's not just a brake shuddering coming from the pads? This could have the same effect as a loose headset.
Had the same issue with the Supersix Evo HM disc i bought 2 years ago. Even sent Cannondale an email complaining about their headset. in the end, i swopped the headset out for one from the Caad12 and all was a good'en.
Yeah, that's crazy! The compression system/headset, especially on such an expensive road bike!!! I did hear that Giant has a much better headset system, saw it on those videos from an Australian tech guy where he cuts up frames to investigate, and fixes them. He mention giant use a better system up front... I have a Specialized Tarmac, and no problems so far, but was looking into cannondale, but after viewing a few videos with these types of problems makes me wonder on getting one myself! Thx for sharing, hope you get it functional, yeah, encountering these negatives on an expensive bike rips my ocd apart!!! Safe riding mate :-)
is the dust cap bolt actually engaging with the compression plug? theres a lot of steerer tube hanging out there , i reckon the bolt might not being long enough to reach the compression plug threads.
I have a 2016 hi-mod synapse. Admittedly I’m far from tech savy. I’ve always felt that something was not quite right with headset. You just exactly diagnosed the same problem on super six as my synapse. Not sure how to fix this issue. Very disappointed
Hey Peaky! Would you consider giving your thoughts on the new BMC Timemachine Road and maybe some on the old one? I own one of the old ones. In a way I see that BMC presents much kindling wood for one of your brutal reviews, which I really enjoy. Let me know if you get provoked or if you think it's good stuff.
I've ridden the new one, and it looked like a really high quality product. But I've never got my head around the price. Anything Swiss is expensive for anyone who's not from Switzerland.
@@PeakTorque The question is if it's worth the price. If BMC is chique or not I'll leave up to others, but they're somewhat strange in my opinion, starting from the name "Bicycle Manufacturing Company", lol. Or how the designers of the old Timemachine Road only knew rulers and straight lines. And the front fork with the integrated brake. I never really thought the old one was beautiful, but I've generally liked the design for different reasons. It's not as crazy and bulbous like the old S Works Venge VIAS, but it still is conservatively outlandish. Stiffness is something that it has going for it, at least for that generation of aero bikes.
Quite a few guys who race these crack the steerer. Needs a alloy bung. It’s a stiff light frame, can’t say I have a problem with the headset bearing. All other Cannondale bits have gone now! Any bike from a shop is wreck, I always expect to start over and do it right.
I have a 2018 supersix and a few of the fibres got pulled out of the surface ply at the top headset seat. There is now a groove, its actually pretty big. I cut my finger on it when cleaning lol. But yeah the bottom bracket has been replaced 3 times by LBS and still creaks. It has a Sram pressfit where the bearings are housed in nylon cups. she is a good quality steed. Shouldn't these issues be covered by warranty?
The plastic compression ring is pretty common with a carbon steerer. "Crack and fail" has been suggesting use of the thick, nasty, green locktight that Park makes since the inception of pressed B.B.s.
It's done on purpose to just go back to the shop and change headsets every 6 months. Only logic explanation. Or the engineers are just dumb, which might actually be true too.
They lost a lot of quality. I used to exclusively ride cannondale.. I refuse to purchase their product after moving across the pond. Because of the lack of quality. I have three Orcas now... And love them and thier customer service
Any idea if it has the same set up as the synapse hi mod? I’m trying to tighten up a loose headset. It’s already tighten so I’m looking at the rest of it like wtf. Gonna need to take it into the shop lol
The Cannondale and that god awful expander plug in the steerer, it doesn't provide outward force uniformly and there is just no support where the stem clamps on, I changed mine out as soon as I could. I had to swap it out on my synapse as the headset kept coming loose.
Mr Peak Torque can you please let me know the brand of the white aero jersey you're wearing in the pro stealth saddle review video? Wanted to get myself one of those. Thanks for the help!
I agree, Loctite bearing compound to secure the bearing. I've used that stuff to secure a loose bearing on a trailer axle, it should certainly be ok on a headset. As for that nasty top cap, I would just make one from scratch (assuming you have access to a lathe). Black delrin would perform as well as aluminium, and it will look original too. The advantage is, you can control the side drop height to just about float over the frame tube at full preload, and square it up too in order to clear the bearing (no more shim nonsense).
This video probably just saved me a trip to A&E. Been riding my secondhand supersix for a few weeks now, watched this, checked, and it's got the same problem on the top *and* bottom bearings. The plastic compression ring had begun to wear the steerer from the movement (not so far that I think it's unsafe, I'll keep an eye on it). Shimmed top and bottom bearings with 2 thou steel, one strip each top and bottom all the way around the bearings' outer races. Loctite and activator (needed because it won't be exclusively on steel-steel interfaces) are in the post. It would be laughable if it wasn't so unsafe. Sticking with a plastic compression ring rather than alloy to save steerer wear.
"are there any engineers in the biycycle industry? like real ones" ive looked at over 200 bike configurations in the last week from dirt jumpers through enduros for my new ride and in all honesty please dont get triggered : all complete bike builds have major faults and if you dont get a custom then you will regret your purchase i might just end up with a bmx or 24" wheel trial bike and practice manuals/bunny hops and give up on bikes that travel distances
Hello i bought also a used SuperSix High Mod Rim form 2018 everything is in brilliant shape and works beautifully and i love the bike. But same shit on the headset. Worse the compression ring put wear on the fork. So the nominal diameter is 38,55 mm and the smallest section from the worn bit is 38.30 mm. Wall thickness is around 2 mm. What should i do ?
Bring it back to the shop, lay it gently down in the parking lot, douse it with lighter fluid and return that monstrosity back to the Caad hell it came from.
And to think the Ahead design was actually introduced to save money on the production time it took to machine thread the steerer tube and for the the threaded top race of the headset to be rotated on to the steerer tube to adjust the compression then locking off the compression with the lock nut after cutting the steerer tube, which required more accuracy than the ahead design requirement. A multi thousand $$$ frameset having to use shims for an Ahead design is a complete FUBAR.
It is bad - but bike companies are setup for one thing, profit. Just like any other industry. So their QC won’t be looking at things from a customer satisfaction point of view - just a “oh that problem won’t cause us a lawsuit, send it out”. IME I’ve found that Aluminium Headset cups are better for the taper bearing internal type of headset but they seem to only exist on cheaper bikes these days. (in my experience)
I just realized I am having the same problem on the same model frame. That pisses me off. I've always been a big Cannondale fan. I sold my 2013 SuperSix to buy this one. That bike was perfect.
No offence and I apologize for saying this but I would not trade my $1200 (Canadian) Sava Carbon bike for that Cannondale. I have zero of those issues on my Sava, look for a review on my channel it's nothing high end just a bike that does what I wanted. Good luck man and for the money you paid there is zero excuses for assembly like that.
: You also wrapped your bartape the wrong way :) Well, sorry for your bike. I always liked the Super Six and wanted to get one for my brother but I'm definitely not going to now. Thanks for the video.
I was debating if I should get this frame and did not like the fact it's bb30, 25,4 mm seat post and now this.... so might end up with focus izalco instead
Stay away from BB30! The only problem with my secondhand CAAD10 is a creaking BB! Pulled it apart, checked bearings(ok), relubed, still no good. Hambini has a good video on frame tolerances and Cannondale rank poorly.th-cam.com/video/zryhuHkbb-o/w-d-xo.html
Funny how we are assuming this was intentional. Obviously a defect. I have the same bike, a 2018 Supersix Evo HM Disc team model in a 54cm. I do not have this problem. I do have an aluminum compression sleeve on the inner bearing. These things happen. There have been complaints about every bike manufacturer in regards to bearing and carbon frame interfaces. The pressfit bottom brackets have been a huge issue for all carbon frames. The carbon simply wears down enough to develop play which only accelerates the problem. This prompted Specialized to make a BB30 with an aluminum interface. Some mtb frame going back to threaded bottom brackets. Warranty issue for sure then move on.
Interesting vid again! Love the engineering point of view. Seems to me that the brand is stalling a bit in terms of RND. Supersix has not been updated since ages and still has these headset and bb issues. And the new systemsix is dead ugly compared to a venge or aeroad.
So Hambini was right about Cannondale manufacture tolerance. He consider those bike as garbage because of bottom bracket misalignment. So steer tube have same problem as well. I'll never buy Cannondale and any bike on press fit BB at all. Canyon, Specialized, Boardman, also better to avoid to buy because of bad manufacturing, misalignment or bad engineering.
I went on a search of manufacturing/design issues such as these, after seeing your video this morning. I came across a video titled "Which bike frames creak?" by a channel called Hambini. In the video he compares detailed measurement of manufacturing tolerances in BB's. Cannondale was at the bottom of the graph along with Boardman. Then a little later today i found an interesting forum thread on weightweenies.starbike.com which started out as "Who produces Canyon frames?" but after a few pages got to a general discussion of manufacturing tolerances, quality control, whoproduces frames for which brands etc. There were the usual unsubstantiated tripe (I once had a bike which...) but also a lot of helpful insights in the modern carbon manufacturing world. Incidentally, the same Hambini also contributed to this thread. I'm looking to buy my first carbon bike later this year, so this whole day's been food for thought. I'm leaning towards Canyon at the moment, but everything might still change between now and NBD
@@PeakTorque yeah that's what I found as well. Top of the pile in Asian production at least. My wallet isn't quite deep enough for a Look or a Time bike
I started to loudly laugh when you called your bike "limited edition". Stupid bike industry. I am going for Titanium bike with lovely threaded BB. No anymore carbon with press fit idiotism, badly enginered headtubes, etc. There are really few bike companies which lets say "listen" to the consumer needs. Specialized finally understood that press fit is the worst movement ever, Santa Cruz mostly have normal threaded BB but they started to use press fit on their gravel frame. On a gravel frame?! Really? Is that for real? Nothing else leads their thinking only more and more profit. This kind of headset problem maybe can come out on some chinese made and clearly said "yes I am chinese replica" frames. But even though, insanely disappointing the whole biker world. Seems they just don't really care. You paid around 2 grounds clearly for your frame I guess, which was made in China or Taiwan (Cannondale pays around 2-300 bucks for each frame max.) and they resell them 10x more.....with this failure. Lovely world right? Honestly, this silly thing just makes me very angry. Heads up man, don't give up 'till they don't replace it to a perfect one.
I got a friend with this exact frame - made in China. Like you, I'd rather ride heavier steel or titanium made correctly than this carbon paperweight. I too will never buy a new frame with pressed bearing bottom bracket.
He was trying to save money and got it second hand. I sympathise as I have done a similar mistake myself at one time. Most manufacturers' warranty agreements are non-transferable, meaning if the original owner registered the purchase of that frameset with the manufacturer, then then the current owner can forget about being able to make a claim on that warranty.
Welcome to the world of mass manufacturing. There's no way to mass manufacture stuff without getting the occasional problem. That said QC should have picked it up before it left the factory. You really should take that back and complain, as Cannondale won't know there's a problem if you don't. Sometimes, though, manufacturers ignore problems. The Specialized Venge being a case in point. When it first came out Specialized realised that the right hand dropout was malformed because the frame mould wasn't made properly. Because they didn't want to go to the expense of re-making the mould they allowed the frames to go out. So now you know why you have gear problems on your first generation Venge no matter what you do. Not the most expensive bike I've come across with problems though. The best one I've seen is a Specialized Venge Vias (a £12,000 bike) with brake mounts that were splayed out by about 1.5mm!
I recently purchased a 2019 fsi...it has not a single hole properly finished...I mean at least round! The seatpost hole is clearly oval, allowing dirt to penetrate in the frame. I own cannondale bikes from 1996 and to me it looks like in the past they provided quality and innovation...nowadays is just some innovation and really poor quality for the price.
For the money and historical problems to this model is be returning this to wherever or whoever you got it from. You should not be dealing with this to this extent. If there's a warranty available of any sort I wouldn't be messing with it at all as manufacturers just wash their hands of you when they see this sort of thing. Good luck sorting it, but it's somebody else's issue to resolve, don't stress about it, not worth it.
The most important thing is, what canondale said about your problem after you contacted them? But probably you didn't and you're going to make up some answer because people are to smart and just want an excuse to rant about something
Shouldn’t matter what shape the circle bit is as long as the chamfers are correct. All they do is cover the bearings. It would/should function correctly even if that bit of the frame were gone altogether.
What a piece of garbage. It's made in China too. Yes, iphones are also made in China, but this is all the more reason to stick to my wonderful steel frame with external cups.
My 2010 SuperSix is like your Giant. I don't buy what I already have because I have it already. So as long as you know that what you got is good then don't waste your money buying it again. Put that queer on the hooks then shut up and ride.
This is what happens when people want shiny new things. In this case this is what you get with carbon bikes. They are trash. You can't have alloy parts intimately in contact with carbon parts because it will wear the carbon so that's why they use a plastic shim. You have a carbon frame and a carbon stem tube. You can use an alloy one but you will eventually destroy the stem tube. All the manufacturers are scrambling to stop alloy wearing and breaking the carbon parts. That is why they are trying to find terrible compromised designs to fix other terrible designs. The overlying problem is using carbon parts. You then need to make up silly designs to fix the associated problems. Don't delude yourself, all the manufacturers are playing wack-a-mole with solving carbon problems. Different manufacturers mean just different problems. Do yourself a favor and get alloy parts. Save money and headaches.
Update:
1. I have used shim steel and Loctite Bearing Fit on the top bearing.
2. Ive shimmed up the top cap so it no longer bottoms on the outer race of the bearing.
3. Still using plastic compression ring. I don't believe the bearings are concentric and I don't want to damage the steerer using a metal ring (ridiculous)
why did you even do this? wouldn't it be new headset time?
at least get a new top cap that will actually seal!
@@nicks6871 a new headset won't help if the frame is fucked
I have the same issue as you in supersix hi mod 2018 rim brake version:/. It’s very noticeable when climbing.
what loctite do you use on bearing ? i've same issue on caad12
I work in the largest bike shop in PNW and this is just a prime example of Cannondale being Cannondale. Sometimes they do good shit but most of the time they just do fucky shit. As far as your plastic shim goes, that fine, that's standard especially for carbon steerer.
They use a plastic bearing ring because with all the movement the metal ones, especially those thin shims wear and cut into the carbon steerer tube. It's called replacing one problem with another problem 😭
I thought that would be the case Raoul. If only they could nail on the concentricity tol they'd be fine with an alu ring!
Oh yeh the other thing - why hasn't any brand added a simple rad or chmf to the compression ring lip? That'd stop the biting problem. They're all left sharp edged. Ridiculous.
@@PeakTorque It's an extra step in the process which adds cost. The same reason they went to press fit BB, cheaper to make and market it as an advantage. Brilliant!
@@LuescherTeknik some headset compression rings are radiussed at the split and chamfered at the split. Cane Creek, blue ones, I think.
@@n0ch91c3s good to know thanks for sharing.
Update: 4. I've measured my Giant TCR top bearing seat and its almost a perfect H7 transition fit. +0.000, +0.0250 microns. Et voila. Done properly.
Peak Torque froth a good tolerancing
How can I get in touch with you regarding reviewing a bike component?
@@dougiebrownjr there's a contact email on my about page. Sorry for slow reply.
I forgot to add. Lots of my colleagues who bought Cannondale on the bike 2 work scheme have had the same problem with the headset. They fixed it with belzona and then machining the hole again
That's pretty extreme. I've got some shim steel in there now with Loctite bearing fit. Hasn't budged yet. The other problem is the expander plug. It expands at the level below the stem clamp, not under the stem 🤦
@@PeakTorque the belzona is an easy fix if you have a boring machine
@@Hambini could you elaborate on this process, intrigued!
Utter junk. I don't know how anyone can respect that Muppet of an engineer Damon rinard for letting this out.
Wasn't he at Cervélo??
I was watching this and wondered what Hambini would say. He did not disappoint!
Anyway this video isca public service. Thank you.
Sorry you are having to faf with this disaster.
@@PeakTorque he is now engineering manager at Cannondale.
Okay, I'm sure that Damon Rinard knows that bearings need to be mounted in correct sized holes to work correctly; You can hardly make it out of school without knowing that. It's also unlikely that he is in charge of production. I suspect the issues are a bit more complicated. Thoughts off the top of my head: 1) Can't get bean counters to pony up the money for tooling, jigging, or training. 2) Marketing wouldn't stand for any additional cost in the frames for something like inserts, 3) Marketing wouldn't stand for even 3g increase year over year in frame weight even if it meant headsets that don't have issues. 4) Poor feedback into engineering so that they have clue that this is even going on, which could even include falsified QC reports because there is a culture in the shop like that. 5) Production supervisors have quotas to meet for frames shipped per month and will let quality slide to meet quotas. Anyways it wouldn't be professional to raise any of these issues in public either.
I'm not familiar with carbon manufacturing, so i can't say for sure, but it seems like it would be hard to maintain thin walls (light weight), high strengths, tight tolerances, and reasonable costs, all at the same time. Alloy cups for the bearings wouldn't help either because the hardened steel would wallow them out pretty fast I'd think and you'd likely need a thicker headtube to make that work as well.
@@Cynyr if he is an engineer worth his salt, he would do something about this rather than staying silent. If a rider crashed because of a steering issue, he would have nowhere to go and is gladly pursue him on behalf of the claimant for engineering negligence. You would not accept this on a car. Why accept it on a bike.
I don't think I've seen anything like this since looking at the Headset of a 1973 Rayleigh Chopper, which I think must have been assembled during the 3 day week on one of the days (Monday Morning) when the lights were off at the factory.
I had the same problem with my Cannondale Supersix Evo Hi-Mod Disc Ultegra (2017).
The headset always had a little play from the day I built it up and I couldn’t figure out what the problem was. Eventually, the play created a deep compression in the carbon steer tube and I thought I needed to replace the fork entirely.
The culprit was the plastic compression ring!
The tolerance is not even close to being functional or safe on that part, which is shameful on an expensive bike, as you said.
The solution, for me, was to replace the split compression ring with an aluminum ring, top cap to house it, and the fork ended up with a Cervelo aluminum insert inside to prevent failure down the line without having to pay for a new one of a different color.
Cannondale will literally gaslight you when you mention the specific problem, which is unbelievable-should be illegal, in fact, given their warranty agreement, which is a binding contract that requires them to solve legitimate problems with their customer base as a result of manufacturing defects.
I think we should round up every dissatisfied Cannondale customer and begin a class-action lawsuit! I bet we could find people who were seriously injured as a result of these exact same issues, which caused a crash/failure in the fork, which can be extremely dangerous on a descent, for example.
To arms! To arms!
Very interesting story. It seems to be a huge issue, one that i thought they would have solved ages ago. Which alu compression ring did you use??
@@PeakTorque You should find a compression ring from somewhere like bike-components.. Just check out the bearing you have know and find a matching cane creek / fsa headset with the same bearing and find the compression ring part.
From bb30 to this, i wish this company goes bank rupt and stop coming up wi stupid ideas!
My 36 year old Shimano HP-6207 600EX headset still works perfectly. I've even purchased an FSA Duron headset as a replacement for £13 recently as I think that it might not reach 50 years use.
OMG. You made me get out of bed to check the headset on my bike. Haha
Took me right back to the 2017 season where the team I wrench for rode Hi Mods, man did I earn my money that season.
I'm pretty sure many Cannondale $10,000 super bicycle owners find some cigarette papers and some blue tack in there when they take apart their headsets.
Thanks for sharing this! In my case I have a Supersix Evo 2016 with a Seiko headseat and the compression ring is metal. I have the problem that the headset gets loose very frequently and was looking for a solution. I cannot say if my bearings are concentric or not, it is hard to see and don´t have a tool to measure it.
Bought it 2nd hand. But yes i do have the warranty card and i will be raising the issue with them officially, but sometimes it's better to just re-engineer short term.
Welcome to the world of cannondale everything is kick*ss on paper but once you ride it or start wrenching you realize they have the same qc as huffy and the "engeneerring/mechanical" design istn much better than huffy. Problem after problem
My 2019 lefty does this really bad. Was fine. Took of forks to fit a drop post refitted all good. 2 weeks later took of forks to sent to back for leaking seals. Refitted now rocks. Don't understand what I've done wrong. All the same bits have gone back correctly. Its almost like the top bearing not sitting in the frame flat.
Holy shit! My headset does all these things and all this time I thought I screwed something up! I’d never encountered anything like it on any other bike. I thought “this bike must be too high tech for my mechanic skills.” Omg. What a relief I thought it was just me. I kind of want to sell my super 6 now.
I also have a Cannondale Supersix Evo Hi Mod 2016 frame set. Updating the group set my bike mechanic found a 0.4mm indentation on the steerer tube that the compression ring created from moving back and forth. I never once felt play in the headset. Sent photos to Cannondale and wanted to lodge a warranty claim. After 3 long weeks they told me I had been riding the headset loose and it was my fault so they won't warranty the frame. Disgusting.
I have the same problem. When I am heavy braking i get a strong vibration in the fork. It can be very dangerous. Also braking on bad roads ... the same Vibration. I dont have any problems on my other 3 bikes, only on Cannondale supersix evo Hi mod disc ultegra di2 2018. I changed the compression plug and so i can thighten the headset more and it ist a litle bit better.
I think the dust cap is the culprit. I had a similar issue where the compression wasn't distributed properly. Shim the cap. I wouldn't shim the outer race because it could split the head tube.
Welcome to my life between 2012 and this very day
Boris the Blade, as in, Boris the bullet dodger, don't see you round here much these days. Why you still suffer with it? Close to passing this slab on mate, its not even light.
Plastic compression ring is better than aluminum. "too loose". It'll wedge in there.
Campy has always used plastic compression rings, although theirs is collet-style, uniform and tighter fitting.
The gap on the frame sucks for sure, though. Guess you hadn't noticed or had problems with the gap between the crown and lower bearing, allowing crap from the front tire to shower the bearing.
I have a caad9 with the same problem. Solution was a cane creek replacement and I have to be extra precise with the preload adjustment. But it used to get a bit loose every 200 kms. It is terrible really.
Send the bike back, shocking standard.
Rob Cannondale doesn’t sell bikes from their website
I have a non Hi-Mod Evo and it has a metal compression ring - are you sure it's not the assembler? What you have doesn't even match what comes in the Cannondale headset kit for your bike...
I understand your compression ring is plastic and your bearing hole is oval but are you sure it's not just a brake shuddering coming from the pads? This could have the same effect as a loose headset.
Had the same issue with the Supersix Evo HM disc i bought 2 years ago. Even sent Cannondale an email complaining about their headset. in the end, i swopped the headset out for one from the Caad12 and all was a good'en.
Yeah, that's crazy! The compression system/headset, especially on such an expensive road bike!!! I did hear that Giant has a much better headset system, saw it on those videos from an Australian tech guy where he cuts up frames to investigate, and fixes them. He mention giant use a better system up front...
I have a Specialized Tarmac, and no problems so far, but was looking into cannondale, but after viewing a few videos with these types of problems makes me wonder on getting one myself! Thx for sharing, hope you get it functional, yeah, encountering these negatives on an expensive bike rips my ocd apart!!! Safe riding mate :-)
is the dust cap bolt actually engaging with the compression plug? theres a lot of steerer tube hanging out there , i reckon the bolt might not being long enough to reach the compression plug threads.
Yeah you're right. My compression plug looked exactly like this... little did he know I had a nice hacksaw behind my back. 😈
top platic cap should be ok. it beeing loose should not matter. bearing sizes are standard, so finding a alloy to replace it should be easy.
I have a 2016 hi-mod synapse. Admittedly I’m far from tech savy. I’ve always felt that something was not quite right with headset. You just exactly diagnosed the same problem on super six as my synapse. Not sure how to fix this issue. Very disappointed
Hey Peaky! Would you consider giving your thoughts on the new BMC Timemachine Road and maybe some on the old one? I own one of the old ones. In a way I see that BMC presents much kindling wood for one of your brutal reviews, which I really enjoy. Let me know if you get provoked or if you think it's good stuff.
I've ridden the new one, and it looked like a really high quality product. But I've never got my head around the price. Anything Swiss is expensive for anyone who's not from Switzerland.
@@PeakTorque The question is if it's worth the price. If BMC is chique or not I'll leave up to others, but they're somewhat strange in my opinion, starting from the name "Bicycle Manufacturing Company", lol. Or how the designers of the old Timemachine Road only knew rulers and straight lines. And the front fork with the integrated brake. I never really thought the old one was beautiful, but I've generally liked the design for different reasons. It's not as crazy and bulbous like the old S Works Venge VIAS, but it still is conservatively outlandish. Stiffness is something that it has going for it, at least for that generation of aero bikes.
Quite a few guys who race these crack the steerer. Needs a alloy bung. It’s a stiff light frame, can’t say I have a problem with the headset bearing. All other Cannondale bits have gone now! Any bike from a shop is wreck, I always expect to start over and do it right.
I have a 2018 supersix and a few of the fibres got pulled out of the surface ply at the top headset seat. There is now a groove, its actually pretty big. I cut my finger on it when cleaning lol. But yeah the bottom bracket has been replaced 3 times by LBS and still creaks. It has a Sram pressfit where the bearings are housed in nylon cups. she is a good quality steed. Shouldn't these issues be covered by warranty?
The plastic compression ring is pretty common with a carbon steerer. "Crack and fail" has been suggesting use of the thick, nasty, green locktight that Park makes since the inception of pressed B.B.s.
same problem with my giant trance.. will try to do some modification to eliminate those movements.. causing some creaking sound..🤯
It's done on purpose to just go back to the shop and change headsets every 6 months.
Only logic explanation.
Or the engineers are just dumb, which might actually be true too.
I love cannondales but they lost some quality when they left the USA.
They lost a lot of quality. I used to exclusively ride cannondale.. I refuse to purchase their product after moving across the pond. Because of the lack of quality.
I have three Orcas now... And love them and thier customer service
Are you talking about tolerances? Or bad bearings? It might be both, which would be really bad.
Received my new Cannondale caad optimo today, headset bolt wasnt attached & had fallen inside & couldn't get it out.
Any idea if it has the same set up as the synapse hi mod? I’m trying to tighten up a loose headset. It’s already tighten so I’m looking at the rest of it like wtf. Gonna need to take it into the shop lol
What about bedding the bearing in the frame with JB weld or similar?
What is that metallic piece inside of your fork (dont know the name...but were the stem is placed onto)
The Cannondale and that god awful expander plug in the steerer, it doesn't provide outward force uniformly and there is just no support where the stem clamps on, I changed mine out as soon as I could. I had to swap it out on my synapse as the headset kept coming loose.
Agreed. The plug expands but its below the level of the stem. Wtf is the point in that?!
Mr Peak Torque can you please let me know the brand of the white aero jersey you're wearing in the pro stealth saddle review video? Wanted to get myself one of those. Thanks for the help!
I replied to your previous comment on the other video.
The only thing that can help in this situation is a nice cup of tea
I agree, Loctite bearing compound to secure the bearing. I've used that stuff to secure a loose bearing on a trailer axle, it should certainly be ok on a headset. As for that nasty top cap, I would just make one from scratch (assuming you have access to a lathe). Black delrin would perform as well as aluminium, and it will look original too. The advantage is, you can control the side drop height to just about float over the frame tube at full preload, and square it up too in order to clear the bearing (no more shim nonsense).
Hi Tom. Absolutely right, I am making a new top cap with the right height to just clear the frame but not to bear on the outer race.
This video probably just saved me a trip to A&E. Been riding my secondhand supersix for a few weeks now, watched this, checked, and it's got the same problem on the top *and* bottom bearings. The plastic compression ring had begun to wear the steerer from the movement (not so far that I think it's unsafe, I'll keep an eye on it). Shimmed top and bottom bearings with 2 thou steel, one strip each top and bottom all the way around the bearings' outer races. Loctite and activator (needed because it won't be exclusively on steel-steel interfaces) are in the post. It would be laughable if it wasn't so unsafe. Sticking with a plastic compression ring rather than alloy to save steerer wear.
Oh also I've ordered an 0.25mm shim spacer for under the top cap. FSA make them, they're often listed as "micro spacers".
Ridiculous we are left to do this!
"are there any engineers in the biycycle industry? like real ones" ive looked at over 200 bike configurations in the last week from dirt jumpers through enduros for my new ride and in all honesty
please dont get triggered :
all complete bike builds have major faults and if you dont get a custom then you will regret your purchase
i might just end up with a bmx or 24" wheel trial bike and practice manuals/bunny hops and give up on bikes that travel distances
Hello i bought also a used SuperSix High Mod Rim form 2018 everything is in brilliant shape and works beautifully and i love the bike. But same shit on the headset. Worse the compression ring put wear on the fork. So the nominal diameter is 38,55 mm and the smallest section from the worn bit is 38.30 mm. Wall thickness is around 2 mm.
What should i do ?
Send it back and get another giant 😂
I was going to suggest an aftermarket headset bearing kit, but yeah, an oval hole ain't gonna get fixed... time to ask for a new frame.
Bring it back to the shop, lay it gently down in the parking lot, douse it with lighter fluid and return that monstrosity back to the Caad hell it came from.
And to think the Ahead design was actually introduced to save money on the production time it took to machine thread the steerer tube and for the the threaded top race of the headset to be rotated on to the steerer tube to adjust the compression then locking off the compression with the lock nut after cutting the steerer tube, which required more accuracy than the ahead design requirement.
A multi thousand $$$ frameset having to use shims for an Ahead design is a complete FUBAR.
It is bad - but bike companies are setup for one thing, profit. Just like any other industry.
So their QC won’t be looking at things from a customer satisfaction point of view - just a “oh that problem won’t cause us a lawsuit, send it out”.
IME I’ve found that Aluminium Headset cups are better for the taper bearing internal type of headset but they seem to only exist on cheaper bikes these days. (in my experience)
Yup, even my Giant XTC advanced carbon (MTB) uses AL headset cups. I run that sucker full rigid and that headset design is stout as can be.
I just realized I am having the same problem on the same model frame. That pisses me off. I've always been a big Cannondale fan. I sold my 2013 SuperSix to buy this one. That bike was perfect.
They were all "let go" from Cannondale
Interesting...
Meanwhile 30+ year old steel framed bicycles with 100's of thousands of miles are still being ridden with zero problems.
No offence and I apologize for saying this but I would not trade my $1200 (Canadian) Sava Carbon bike for that Cannondale. I have zero of those issues on my Sava, look for a review on my channel it's nothing high end just a bike that does what I wanted. Good luck man and for the money you paid there is zero excuses for assembly like that.
alloy ring and retaining compound on the bearing should do the trick
Is this just yours like that or whole series has that problem?
Beacuse that is very bad enginering
I have two friends who have the same problem. I don't have many friends so statistically that's alot.
Peak Torque
My caad 10 doesn’t have that problem
@@mikicastan My CAAD10 is sweet. I just got it secondhand and only ridden 300km though. Too scared to pull headset apart now! 😕
Richard George
Headset is fine.
I did 15000 km on it so far
: You also wrapped your bartape the wrong way :) Well, sorry for your bike. I always liked the Super Six and wanted to get one for my brother but I'm definitely not going to now. Thanks for the video.
I was debating if I should get this frame and did not like the fact it's bb30, 25,4 mm seat post and now this.... so might end up with focus izalco instead
Izalco everyday of the week, gorgeous bike.
The new one or the old one? The new one looks amazing but I've seen some great deals on the old Izalco now the new version has been released
@@DavidvdGulik It will be the old non "aero" version with rim brakes. Geometry fits and the weight can be under 700 grams after removing the paint.
Stay away from BB30! The only problem with my secondhand CAAD10 is a creaking BB! Pulled it apart, checked bearings(ok), relubed, still no good. Hambini has a good video on frame tolerances and Cannondale rank poorly.th-cam.com/video/zryhuHkbb-o/w-d-xo.html
Funny how we are assuming this was intentional. Obviously a defect. I have the same bike, a 2018 Supersix Evo HM Disc team model in a 54cm. I do not have this problem. I do have an aluminum compression sleeve on the inner bearing. These things happen. There have been complaints about every bike manufacturer in regards to bearing and carbon frame interfaces. The pressfit bottom brackets have been a huge issue for all carbon frames. The carbon simply wears down enough to develop play which only accelerates the problem. This prompted Specialized to make a BB30 with an aluminum interface. Some mtb frame going back to threaded bottom brackets. Warranty issue for sure then move on.
What country are you from? I think you're not picking up the huge amounts of sarcasm on this channel. Of course i know its a defect!
Interesting vid again! Love the engineering point of view. Seems to me that the brand is stalling a bit in terms of RND. Supersix has not been updated since ages and still has these headset and bb issues. And the new systemsix is dead ugly compared to a venge or aeroad.
ugly and areo sometimes mean the same thing. look at F1 cars as an example.
reminds me of a cane creak headset from the 90's
So Hambini was right about Cannondale manufacture tolerance. He consider those bike as garbage because of bottom bracket misalignment. So steer tube have same problem as well. I'll never buy Cannondale and any bike on press fit BB at all.
Canyon, Specialized, Boardman, also better to avoid to buy because of bad manufacturing, misalignment or bad engineering.
I went on a search of manufacturing/design issues such as these, after seeing your video this morning. I came across a video titled "Which bike frames creak?" by a channel called Hambini. In the video he compares detailed measurement of manufacturing tolerances in BB's. Cannondale was at the bottom of the graph along with Boardman.
Then a little later today i found an interesting forum thread on weightweenies.starbike.com which started out as "Who produces Canyon frames?" but after a few pages got to a general discussion of manufacturing tolerances, quality control, whoproduces frames for which brands etc. There were the usual unsubstantiated tripe (I once had a bike which...) but also a lot of helpful insights in the modern carbon manufacturing world. Incidentally, the same Hambini also contributed to this thread.
I'm looking to buy my first carbon bike later this year, so this whole day's been food for thought. I'm leaning towards Canyon at the moment, but everything might still change between now and NBD
I have to say, Canyon and Giant are top of the pile when it comes to QC and general engineering practice. In my humble opinion.
@@PeakTorque yeah that's what I found as well. Top of the pile in Asian production at least. My wallet isn't quite deep enough for a Look or a Time bike
Replace it under warranty.
I would do that to if i was him
I bought it second hand.
Just send Cannondale a link to this video...
Trust me they will replace it...
@@rp6760 their customer service is shit
I started to loudly laugh when you called your bike "limited edition".
Stupid bike industry. I am going for Titanium bike with lovely threaded BB. No anymore carbon with press fit idiotism, badly enginered headtubes, etc.
There are really few bike companies which lets say "listen" to the consumer needs. Specialized finally understood that press fit is the worst movement ever, Santa Cruz mostly have normal threaded BB but they started to use press fit on their gravel frame. On a gravel frame?! Really? Is that for real? Nothing else leads their thinking only more and more profit. This kind of headset problem maybe can come out on some chinese made and clearly said "yes I am chinese replica" frames. But even though, insanely disappointing the whole biker world. Seems they just don't really care.
You paid around 2 grounds clearly for your frame I guess, which was made in China or Taiwan (Cannondale pays around 2-300 bucks for each frame max.) and they resell them 10x more.....with this failure. Lovely world right?
Honestly, this silly thing just makes me very angry.
Heads up man, don't give up 'till they don't replace it to a perfect one.
I got a friend with this exact frame - made in China. Like you, I'd rather ride heavier steel or titanium made correctly than this carbon paperweight. I too will never buy a new frame with pressed bearing bottom bracket.
I don't get why you go with it. Just bring it back and complain about it until you get a frame with fitting bearings.
He was trying to save money and got it second hand. I sympathise as I have done a similar mistake myself at one time. Most manufacturers' warranty agreements are non-transferable, meaning if the original owner registered the purchase of that frameset with the manufacturer, then then the current owner can forget about being able to make a claim on that warranty.
Welcome to the world of mass manufacturing. There's no way to mass manufacture stuff without getting the occasional problem. That said QC should have picked it up before it left the factory. You really should take that back and complain, as Cannondale won't know there's a problem if you don't.
Sometimes, though, manufacturers ignore problems. The Specialized Venge being a case in point. When it first came out Specialized realised that the right hand dropout was malformed because the frame mould wasn't made properly. Because they didn't want to go to the expense of re-making the mould they allowed the frames to go out. So now you know why you have gear problems on your first generation Venge no matter what you do.
Not the most expensive bike I've come across with problems though. The best one I've seen is a Specialized Venge Vias (a £12,000 bike) with brake mounts that were splayed out by about 1.5mm!
I recently purchased a 2019 fsi...it has not a single hole properly finished...I mean at least round! The seatpost hole is clearly oval, allowing dirt to penetrate in the frame. I own cannondale bikes from 1996 and to me it looks like in the past they provided quality and innovation...nowadays is just some innovation and really poor quality for the price.
That’s appalling, the head set isn’t fit for purpose
That’s done away with. Now let’s talk about bottom bracket.
For the money and historical problems to this model is be returning this to wherever or whoever you got it from. You should not be dealing with this to this extent. If there's a warranty available of any sort I wouldn't be messing with it at all as manufacturers just wash their hands of you when they see this sort of thing.
Good luck sorting it, but it's somebody else's issue to resolve, don't stress about it, not worth it.
if you bought it 2nd hand the previous owner could have swapped some stuff...you just don't know.
The most important thing is, what canondale said about your problem after you contacted them? But probably you didn't and you're going to make up some answer because people are to smart and just want an excuse to rant about something
I have fixed the problem with shims under the top cap. Thanks
as if those 60 yo grandma gluing your frame in China gives a fuck if the hole is round or not
Shouldn’t matter what shape the circle bit is as long as the chamfers are correct. All they do is cover the bearings. It would/should function correctly even if that bit of the frame were gone altogether.
it's foolish to presume every bike that comes off the line is going to be perfect... doesn't matter how much it costs
Of course. But that's a supplier issue, and the brand should be implementing QC in that supplier.
Very poor engineering. Thanks for highlighting the problem. Typical , superficial beauty but shoddy just beneath the surface.
What a piece of garbage. It's made in China too. Yes, iphones are also made in China, but this is all the more reason to stick to my wonderful steel frame with external cups.
you deffenitly don't work on bikes often and didn't buy this cannondale from a good bikeshop...
That's such a pity.
Cannondale !!! Coming to your local Walmart’s soon!!!!
Stay tuned!!! Lol
I rather stay with my 150w than complain about my bike every 2 weeks. Heavy people wanting to ride super lightweight bikes... Not gonna happen
Well that sucks.
My 2010 SuperSix is like your Giant. I don't buy what I already have because I have it already. So as long as you know that what you got is good then don't waste your money buying it again. Put that queer on the hooks then shut up and ride.
crack and fail cannondale
Come on, I push 150W and im not a prawn. I just push power to what my knee pain allows
Put some epoxy in there between the frame and bearing.It will fil the gap
Cannondale= CrackandFail
Reads endless horror stories of bike/brand hes wants to buy... Buys it anyway
I just love the look of the supersix 😛
150 Watt Prawns hahahaha
lmao
merida scultura headset way better than this ha ha ha ha
www.dorel.com/eng/ brother ask them)
Aliexpress fo sell some shite !!!!!!!
I hate cannondale
This is what happens when people want shiny new things. In this case this is what you get with carbon bikes. They are trash. You can't have alloy parts intimately in contact with carbon parts because it will wear the carbon so that's why they use a plastic shim. You have a carbon frame and a carbon stem tube. You can use an alloy one but you will eventually destroy the stem tube. All the manufacturers are scrambling to stop alloy wearing and breaking the carbon parts. That is why they are trying to find terrible compromised designs to fix other terrible designs. The overlying problem is using carbon parts. You then need to make up silly designs to fix the associated problems. Don't delude yourself, all the manufacturers are playing wack-a-mole with solving carbon problems. Different manufacturers mean just different problems. Do yourself a favor and get alloy parts. Save money and headaches.