McIntosh & Chord Audio SUCKED? Or did I SUCK? (confident and clueless to curious and humble)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มิ.ย. 2024
- This is a LONG Hi-Fi Cave rant about the journey and differences in my perceptions and opinions on High-end gear today versus 10 years ago.
#audiophile #hifiaudio #rant
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Thanks for honest video. It’s good just watch “You” and your thoughts .:) thanks for sharing.
Thank you Darek.
Man, you are the one and only who’s able to deliver great content in this field even without showing any picture, graph, audio sample or whatever.
Great “conversation”.
So much so that I believe all of us would love to see all the creators you mentioned coming visiting or hosting you and sharing thoughts/experiences. But the best part of it would be if you could eventually do a series of videos similar to this, in the form of a “fireside chat with Creator_X” to share the outcomes of the visit.
It wouldn’t be about the gear, just about the experience: this would be of paramount importance, otherwise it could come through as just a couple of narcissistic guys flexing their rigs, showing off hyper expensive tubes or tailor-made inaccessible stuff.
Which would be a total miss, knowing you and the other people you mentioned.
(I hope you get the reference here)
Last thought: I hope that “being late watching this video” also means your son has eventually recovered. God bless your family.
Awesome video. In my audio journey, I had my gear adjusted the way I liked it in my room. Then I added a Chord DAC, and the musical experience became noticeably improved over my existing high end DAC… sounds much closer to listening to live music. Even my daughter picked up on the improvements.
Good stuff!
Great video as usual if not one I enjoyed the most, but then… wow… that last 30 seconds. Hope all is okay.
Yup, take me a week to make a video, I wish I can wing it.
You make great videos! And even better amplifiers. ;-)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You give me a lot to think about when I create my own endgame. Actually, since you are sharing this, you accelerated my understanding about all the pitfalls we can run into on our journey to accomplish it.. It's the time we give a problem that allows us to solve it and it never comes at the same time. The first 70-80% is pretty easy, the other increments come in slow, but we need to trust in the process and know that it will arrive. What patience you audiophiles have. You make a lot sense. Feels like a master class. Thank you.
❤️👍
OCD is a legend. Prayers to your family.
Im convinced he has the best sounding and immersive sonic experience in his room of the youtubers to my sonic taste.
Life's About The Journey
Not The Destination 😊
But you can't avoid the final Destination...
Love it, thank you. And all the best for your family.
Family First. Hope your son gets better! Sometime i come across audiophiles that are spending thousands on cables to end up skipping on family vacations because of money issues. It hurts my soul in a very deep way. It's a nice hobby that we have but some of us really need a reality check and reconsider priorities. Great video and the invitation to listen to my garbage is still open. Thomas could join us as well :)
That EAC video Erin did was legend. 😊😊👌👌
Every audio manufacturer has its own house sound. You’ll never find two that sound alike so you gotta figure out what you like and unfortunately, you gotta get out there and listen to as much stuff as you can try to find what you like the sound of the best you can afford go with that.
Agreed. Its just next to impossible for most people who dont have access to trial gear like reviewers, to experience a lot of properly matched systems on all the brands out there. So often we hear brands in systems that are not executed properly, and leaves with a false interpretation of what the brand can do or sound like.
💙You've got a very pleasant demeanor in your videos. Extremely open and easy going. Nice!
Why thank you!
Love your videos. Here”s a simple question that I don’t think I’ve ever heard a response to before. If I’ve found the perfect speaker placement for my room, and then I change a component ( amp , dac, or pre) , do I need to readjust my speaker placement?
Its possible. As components could make the speaker perform differently, and affect the acoustics in the room. Its possible. Not guaranteed.
For example, if you change amp or source, and the bass output increases by 10-15% its possible your sound could benefit from a repositioning of the speaker if the bass output is now too much.
I have experienced this with the Pearl Sibelius recently, with a 300B amplifier its better closer to the wall due to lower watts, making the speaker bass output a bit more lean. But with a 211 amp with iver double the power, now the speakers had better bass output and sounded more balanced a foot closer to my sitting position.
Some would call it the Dunning-Kruger effect.
LOVE this! Amazing discussion
Thanks!
Really good video, lots of good points! We start our audio business in 2019, since that time we have been working on it and we are still learning. Audio is more what you fill, it’s not always what we hear. I am in audio from my high school age. I still remember how was hard to set audio system at Audiofest 2022 (Toronto),when I lost my hearing just a week before the show. Well, system was set, I found best way to do it - fill it, get it to your bones. It’s actually when we use Fenestria .
Thanks for your video.
Leonid! Wow. Thank you for the feedback. I mean it, you are one of the best minds in hifi I have met yet. I hope we can interact again some day.
@@hificaveLet’s do Toronto Audiofest 2024
@@leonidyamborko4531 👍😎
I will be happy to meet any time.
We should listen to one of our system we did for customer Steve at the cottage. Sunroom with lots of windows, subfloor, no treatment end etc. We have a lots of reflection and vibrations, and all that have been fixed with Audio Note cables.
@@leonidyamborko4531 thats the kind of conversation I want to have with you.
Life is a journey..& along that journey we become wiser.
Majority of these TH-cam channels are just entertainment to me because i enjoy all things audio. Like you said.. everything is subjective. No matter how great or terrible something is in your system means nothing to me & my situation. I can have the opposite experience.
Im in my 50's and have only learned in the last few years that it is all about the Room..but that doesn't mean putting treatment everywhere.
Im not an objective nut but since following Erin & being a reading member at ASR I have found it easier to make systems sound better within a budget. Hate ASR all you want but you can learn a lot within that forum. Room acoustics & ultra low noise components. Finding the harmonics that are pleasing to your ear. Since ive gotten into DIY i understand as well how every component/part can make a difference. Every day is a learning experience for me & im sure that 5 years from now I'll look back and think i didn't know poop then. Great video
I favor the traditional "weak link" system building strategy, because one is only concerned with building what is relevant to one's system needs, not the sizzle of the latest greatest advancements in the entire audio marketplace.
@@richardelliott8352 yes..I think your approach is the right way to go about.
The room first.
Very thought provoking video, I did enjoy it. Hope all is well with your family, my best wishes.
Audiophilia is a journey that educates you through experience. Your understanding about what sounds right and what sounds wrong evolves, and sooner or later you quite easily can tell good from not so good equipment.
Great video...
At the point where you are now, you have qualified to have a healthy discussion about sound and audio with a guru like Nelson Pass.
As he says...
It's an entertainment business, and we all are at different places on our journey.
Yes, listen to music with your kids. While not at my hifi, i trade songs with my kids whenever we are driving-we all take turns choosing the next song, taking inspiration from each other. All the best with your son.
Acknowledging our kids musical tastes is important. And having them experience it through hifi shows them theres more to music’s potential then what they hear in the car or on cheap headphones or Alexa/google devices. Dave we should do a video!
Yup , a lot of the venues at the Toronto show was crappy.
Looking forward to Toronto Audiofest 2024 😎
Yeah I was there last year, to be honest most of the rooms sounded bad
Hope all is well with you and your family.
I like these stream of consciousness videos about what it means to be an audiophile. audiophile is a state of mind ;)
I think a lot of the big companies need some new blood in their rosters, everyone is going for the legacy customer and thus legacy designers but that is old hifi! Where is the new takes and designers going to come from if the industry doesn't want them!?
the fundamentals are well understood. knowledge my be improved upon, but musical reproduction has been around since befor home electricity, so the industry is somewhat mature, kind of like car tires, where no one guy has a top secret way to make tires.
Brilliant
Hi
I have had a pair of quad ESL 57 speakers for most of my life
Their sound / tone is still my ideal that I hear in my head and I compare with everything else I hear - including other Quad Speakers
I’m not speaking about power and dynamics and all the other faults that ESL 57s critics love to list
It’s an ideal “touch base “sound I can always relate back to
Best video of 2024 maybe EVER. ❤❤❤
Easy tiger! 😁
Awesome video CaveMan! Very thought provoking, and i even disagree with some of it! Let me know if you would like me to come by and give you my super-biased opinion of your system ;-)
Nice Video.. experience usually does make our perspective change
Sure does.
Hang in there Loïc.
Beautiful dog. Hunting beagles on my end. Outlaws
Hope your son gets well soon!
Thank you
Awwwww. You make me blush. 🤣🤣🤣
Watch a 1.25x play back speed. You can thank me later ;)
😎
I like the tone and cadence. Mabye you should watch Mr. Beast.
I love mr. Beast. Hope he becomes an audiophile nut and subscribes to my channel 🤪🤦♂️
34:20 big ❤
Good luck to your family!
Thank you!
McIntosh does not suck. NOTHING WILL SOUND BETTER than a DIY pre/power with custom speakers.....you can get each part as close to FULL NEUTRAL as possible (alot of this is using high quality resistors, capacitors, tranformers, and ICs/Tubes) and then connect to get a neutral sound -- then can adjust values of parts over time to get the closest to neutral that makes the music make you dance.
...ouside full DIY, all pieces have compromises that, if adjusted for, will give you a system you could listen to for a life......THE WAY YOU WANT TO
It does not suck. Agreed.
I think my nephews remind me of the differences between a love of music or recording or live event, or the love of gear. They are teenagers ,so they use what they have- their phones and ear phones- car stereo,or amps and speakers handed down to them. They are always on the go. Much of their music is shared with friends in their cars. And actually they find just sitting and listening to music pretty silly. No right or wrong here. It is more that I think they take music on its merits, as is. Not good or bad sound, more preferred verses not preferred music.
Yeah, all kinds of ways poeple enjoy things. Some people get a response from the beat, some from the lyrics, others for nostalgia etc… Sometimes I am told to listen to the lyrics, and I answer, That I prefer not to, as I enjoy the singers voice as simply another instruments creating the overal melody. My kids do the same as yours for music.
A clear demonstration of the subjectivity of human hearing. If you think something sounds good, that becomes your reality. I used to have fun as a preschooler playing noisy records on a kiddie record player. I had no need nor understanding of a higher fidelity. whatever the brain thinks is all one knows with hearing, right or wrong, the brain is unconcerned with the difference.
@@hificave the lead in credence clearwater revival felt the same way, stating he attaches more importance to the sounds of the words as he sings rather than the elocution of the lyrics.
What is your puppy's name?
Penny
Hope all goes well with your son.Life throws curveballs at us all from time to time.On audio while I'm not a complete objectivist I do feel it's important for us to understand why we hear what we hear.Floyd Toole has tried very hard to align the two when it comes to speaker preferences. I feel that is the key,because even when something is objectively "wrong" some listeners may have become accustomed to that,so when that problem is fixed later on either with a new iteration of that product,or when trying something new that something is now missing for them. I feel that terms like "emotional involvement" and "musicality" are so vague that they've almost become meaningless clichés. Much like music itself, one person could cry at say an operatic piece,while another might want to switch it off.The reaction is completely personal,although some will obviously share those feelings.An engineer,or designer couldn't possibly engineer for a more "emotional sound" for everybody, so ultimately must work with the on paper aspects while understanding and correlating those with what we hear.They can't control whether or not those specifications are "musical" or "emotionally involving" to the listener though. Interestingly I've actually been moved while listening to music on my phone,which is certainly not high end.All interesting to ponder,I feel.Thanks for the video.😊
Thanks for the insights.
@@hificave I hope it wasn't too rambling! All the best to you and family.
anyone who has ever taken a hearing test, or is mildly conversant with the brain science , will know that the brain will respond to your hearing desires. that's why hearing tests have to compensate for a normal amount of sounds that were reported as heard, but were never generated in the test. that's also why double blind listening tests are never used to sell wire to audiophiles, such testing removes the subjectivity of human hearing mathematically.
@@richardelliott8352 Hi.I'm convinced that there are manufacturers who take advantage of this.Much like a magician who can fool the eye/brain into believing that we've seen something we haven't, the belief in having heard something we haven't is real too. Although this is a little controversial for some,I feel that cable "burn in" is one,with the listener merely fooling him or herself when in reality they've simply become accustomed to the "new sound" of a different cable over time.If they want to believe it though,they'll "hear" it. Some listen with their eyes and wallets too.If something is more expensive and comes in a shiny case it must be better.I wouldn't go so far as to name brands,but there's definitely some questionable products out there preying on those who continually chase the next "upgrade".
@@richardelliott8352Hi. TH-cam seemed to have lost my reply. Yep,the brain is a funny thing.Much in the same way that optical illusions exist,so do audible ones. Especially if someone's spent their hard earned cash and needs to hear an improvement. I'm convinced that some manufacturers know how effectively the appearance and presentation of their products affects what people hear,or think they do. Abit of jewellery can go a long way.Add in things like cryogenic freezing for cables and dare I say cable "burn in" too and it's easy to see how people can be caught up on forever spending more money in order to obtain the unobtainable performance.
Steven Speilbearto…. 😊🤣🤣
what about accuphase and luxman?
Beautiful brands.
@@hificave but what do you think of the sound?
@@MasterofPlay7 they can be part of the foundation of great sounding systems. Cant say more, theres a bunch of models for each and have heard a few of each brand but not recently enough to be able to give a real opinion.
@@hificave how dose it compare to tube amp you are using?
GR research will certainly give you opinion and a whole new crossover to embrace.
I would be curious to hear his impressions as well. Consdiering I do not follow his parameters for OB. Well, not all of it.
@@hificave Yes it would be quite abstract from your perspective. But that is what I do to keep myself honest. If you could relieve Lii Audio of their 3 way 18 coax for a try-mmm. I have fallen in love with them.
@@rodm1949 you have the liiaudio triax driver? I have been looking at for some time
@@hificave Nooo- far away from my wifes permission(for now). But they are a thing of beauty. My humble offerings that I am in the process of making are the ST5 for 800k lowP, 200mm planar 800 HP with a 60mm planar forward + 40mm AMT reverse phased in series rear fireing - finished by a 10 inch seperate amped. My version of nearfield.
Awesome video CaveMan! Very thought provoking, and i even disagree with some of it! Let me know if you would like me to come by and give you my super-biased opinion of your system ;-)
Ohh Dave! That would be cool!
Try Clayton amplifiers.
Ok!
Regarding the human race as a whole.
People do not change,
they merely just gain knowledge.
What hifi mag, comes to mind.
Dunning-Kruger effect 😀
I used to look at %THD 🤣
I did as well. Hah!
You should look at THD, but probably in a different way than you used to do.
Look at the configuration of harmonics in the distortion. There you have the key to what sounds good or bad.
The total amount of distortion is not so important unless it's several percent. It's the configuration pattern of the harmonics that can help you select what you like or not.
Once you understand that you need to match that pattern with your reception level of different harmonics you have your golden target.
one also has to remember that no one is swearing on a stack of bibles about the figures used in some advertising. one of the reasons that noise and rumble figures are generally no longer reported by turntable brands is that an honest report of these very important numbers became a market disadvantage against the wildly exaggerated numbers published with Japanese direct drive tables back in the day. comparing figures with electronics is easier to do, so was never as abusive. One just has to consider what impressive numbers really mean when applied to your situation
@@flex-cx9bi the other than primary harmonics are why some prefer analog over digital. the ear didn't evolve with digital harmonics in the mix, and it effects some people as un-natural.
Best wishes for your son.
Thank you.
Education - The path from cocky ignorance to miserable uncertainty
Hahahaha
As a satisfied Mcintosh owner, I am seing a lot of bashing of this brand on TH-cam, I listened to your video based on the title. After listening to this very long video it is still unclear to me why you are saying in your title that Mcintosh sucks.
It does not. Its quality.
Thank you for your response. If Mcintosh doesn’t sucks why the title. Perhaps I am lost in the translation
@@pierregourde326 the title asks a question, in the sense that in my early hifi days, I thought I knew what I was doing, and after hearing systems that were simply poorly executed, I believed it was the brands the issue. Like McIntosh or Chord.hence the : confident and clueless.
But today, with much more experience and having played in hifi with a lot of gear, I now know that many of my initial impressions were completely false. And that I did not realize at the time, why even the best commercial hifi equipement if executed the wrong way can sound bad. But to think it was mcintosh the issue is now completely false. In fact, I know now that these brands, when executed properly to have a synergy between the components and the rooms acoustics can all sound incredible!
I also fell for the click bait of McIntosh in the title , but not in the discussion.
@@richardelliott8352 did you enjoy the discussion?
They use Bullet Points to read off in a cohesive speaking fashion.
That, they do. Good for them.
Everything in the room, including the room itself, counts.
Sure does!
Hotell showrooms is showrooms periode, only to show and let you get a hint of what the speakers can do, its a hotelroom not close to a dedicated listeningroom. I roamed europes showrooms 20yrs ago when i was younger= diy all day Long, never going back..
I can relate to that.
If most of industry put SQ as a priority, most systems would be active.
Fascinating, what do you think industry actually values? You think profits are first?
It’s a little complicated. Industry is a mix of passionate audiophiles who want to make and sell great products and ripoff merchants who only care about money. Wrt active amplification being sidelined by most is a combination of people not understanding why it’s better, and the industry not adopting it. Many go with flow for economic reasons, others through ignorance. Active is more complicated to setup, so passive makes sense for more simple setups at lower cost. But expensive passive speakers make no sense to me. Über expensive systems should be active imo. So much technology is deployed to overcome passive speaker limitations. KISS is the best philosophy. Once active, you can easily adjust the levels of each driver, so less need for cabinet design to do this.
@@Coneman3 great explanation. So for active speakers, you would eliminate passive crossover as well then?
@@Coneman3 of course that makes the best sense, given what is possible today. But I also recognize the ability of what is usually a boutique manufacturer to be able to excel in more than one area. finances tell me the more conservative path, to keep my speakers and buy excellent amplification , is still a valid path , if only because it is easier to better buying decisions with simpler products. If I didn't already have good speakers, the cost of quality amplification would certainly have me looking towards the synergy of built in speaker amplification.
@@hificave one could have a dedicated amplification for each driver, no need to look for trouble and tear apart and process a heavily amplified signal
I strongly reject that one must endlessly churn equipment to be an audiophile. I think it a more likely indicator of an unskilled or careless consumer making poorly informed buying decisions. an audiophile merely has an enthusiast's interest in good home audio.
excessive consumption must be resisted , no matter how much status it creates down at the audio store, or among those who choose to enjoy the hobby by trying to endlessly create a better illusion of a past event by endlessly buying more stuff. Often while completely ignoring how human hearing is completely subjective.
ignoring science is seldom wise, and defiantly not the trait of an expert, except it seems in audio, where all kinds of minutia are considered, , but rarely the mechanics of human hearing, and sometimes even basic electrical understandings are ignored
I don't discount experience, one can't become wise without it. I also recognize there is an audio reality , even if the brain's hearing mechanisms don't..
As stated in my opening, I think our good host might have mis-spoken when he defined his path to audio happiness as universal. I also think there is good chance that he might have misunderstood the goal of the Skywalker sound system he discussed. I would expect the system was a monitoring system built only to hear details in the audio product, a work tool used much like looking through a microscope all day, not purchased for pleasure excursions.
by the way , Skywalker, when they switched over to digital, donated all of their analog equipment to the local community funded FM station , which then threw a big rock dance, before selling all of the equipment to fund the station. when exploring the capabilities of parts of the donation, sound could be heard five miles away in the valley. One impressive JBL reel to reel three inch tape recorder was kept, it was about the size of a juke box.
you got it! It’s hard to cover it all and properly through expression while making a video. Its about whats fun for each of us. You are right. But so am I. Thats the fun. There is no right or bad way when its a hobby. My point ultimately is, Ibhave been traveling the Dunning Krueger effect curves in my journey. Great comment sir!
Indicator of an unskilled or careless consumer… sometimes, maybe. Curiosity in a hobby can be deep and driving. And trying different gear in hifi, can be done without excessive consumption by several means. I agree with many of your points but not all. That being said, I like your comment tho and I would sit by the camp fire and chat with you about all this any day. 😎🍻
No one knows their "shit" - they only know what they like. And that puts lie to most every audio review known to man. Sorry! PS- as an engineer, I refuse to accept that harmonic distortion provided via very expensive tubes is "good" - JS.
Very expensive tubes, should actually have little to no distortion.
people like tubes because tubes don't get easily overloaded and clip the signal , they just keep flowing electrons until design requirements are just a memory. but I am with you, I don't need a bunch of hair shirt consumable complications in my hobbies. my record player already has that spot well occupied.
McIntosh never impressed me as a "high end" product. Lots of better options for the money.
They make great products. I believe All of it sounds good, but if you do it wrong, all of it can sound bad. Regardless of the brand.
@@hificave I never said they sound bad. Just said I'm not impressed. Heard them on Focal Sopras.
@@sonusancti i never said you said they sounded bad. 😎 Was just expanding. All good.
when they only sold in dedicated stores, I felt the same way, that it was an easy way for ,perhaps a dentist to get good sound with one stop shopping , but someone with an interest in the audio market could do better. I still would only buy amplification or electronics from them , but feel now that they compete on the open market, without dedicated "salon"rooms and one brand salespeople , they are a competent manufacturer and competitive in their price range .
@@richardelliott8352 Competent manufacturer I would agree. Competitive in their price range, not for me, at least not their latest "green look at me" products and they're not alone. Not singleing them out at all. Audio is a highly nuanced subjective hobby so we can easily agree to disagree. If it floats someone's boat then I'm happy for him.
Do you think you will ever be satisfied?
I am satisfied. Im just curious.
@@hificave reside in Washington?