Whether this wad is good or bad, I have to say kudos to John Romero, Jimmy, and the other team members for presenting a gift to the community, to celebrate the 30th anniversary of Doom. Like the series of Sigil, I hope to see more original veterans to make a comeback in the future. Imagine an official sequel of Plutonia by Casali brothers, that would be really cool. Thank you for the another amazing season of Dean of Doom! 😄👍
I love Romero's edgy map names. They make the 2000's edgelord teen I once was happy. And yeah, while I ususally aim for 100%, I know that's almost a lost cause with Sigil and its sequel. Also, congrats on another excellent season, Dean. I assume you'll start S4 with the OTHER Doom's 30th B-day present wad.
It’s one in the morning, drowned in food orders, was ready to pass out on my meal break and the lad posts at the perfect time! Great send off to S3 Dean!
I absolutely love the fact that one of the creators of Doom has joined the mapping community. Something similar happened with the Alien Vendetta MIDI pack a-la Plutonia Pack where Chris Laverdure came back and re-did map20's music. Guess you were right; Doom never really leaves you, you just take extended breaks. Another good episode, looking forward to the finale.
Hey, not related to the video, but I just wanted to thank you for running this series. I’m a full time college student and as I’m sure you could guess it means Imm very busy. But, in early high school I got really in to trying to doom map, but I lost motivation with how overwhelmed I was with everything else in my life. But recently I’ve gotten back into it, more than I ever have. This series has been quintessential in not only finding new inspiration for my own work, but also through experiencing a knowledgable and well-spoken perspective on what makes a level good. I could only ever hope that someday I could make the Dean’s list myself. Sincerely, thank you. And keep dooming my friend. 🫡 - Not John Romero’s Bitch (didn’t play dikatana)
Yeah I regularly listen to some of the tracks outside the wad, or at the gym. Particularly Maps 5 and 6 are my favorite, as well as the intermission theme and Map 1. Jimmy Paddock writes some amazing midi metal.
6:10: "That's why I'm selling it to you; it's got a large bite out of it!" Speaking as a religious and unapologetic non-100percenting HMP-continuous savescummer; the progression, adventure, and wealth of secrets in this mapset make it way more fun for me than Sigil 1, which I found somewhat stilted by comparison, IMO. Romero just feels like he was having more fun with this one; a suspicion confirmed by his livestreams. I also just love the texturing and use of architecture and lighting in this one more than Sigil 1; it gives a much better sense of place to many of the levels, and makes progression generally less obtuse because of those design decisions. What can I say...I just love this one. :D In replaying it since Christmas, it's an easy top 10 wad for me. Glad to see you back. ❤
IMO, Sigil 1 is more memorable and fun to play through. The levels are more focused and tightly-knit with appropriate combat. I know most people prefer the midi, but I absolutely love the Buckethead OST. It conjures up a reflection of the player's journey through all of Ultimate Doom, and Sigil 1 gave Ultimate Doom a sense of closure and finality before transitioning over to Doom 2. That being said, I wish Romero made Sigil 2, for Doom 2. Also, I feel compelled to mention the price point for the Sigil 2 Physical Box Collector's edition. $70, John, really?
Almost ending Season 3 with one of two gifts on Doom's 30th birthday! I'm alright with you using James Paddock's MIDIs. Though I do prefer Thorr's OST.
Well, that's a surprise for today! On the one hand, Doctor MtPain managed to escape the moon-logic factory known as _Eternal Doom_ (despite showing it in the Season 3 trailer). On the other hand, though... The season finale is not Sunlust; that means we are getting at least one more season. Which means good news! Also - Vomitorium of Disappointment +1 for E6M2 (AKA the one with the best MIDI track).
Yay, the funny mountain man is back! Edit: 6:04 Wait, aren't those textures said to be references to Romero's old dumpster fire game *Daikatana?* Edit 2: Wait what do you mean this *isn't* the season finale?!
A surprise to see Sigil II here! Also, I'm placing my bets on Eternal Doom or Eviternity II being the long-awaited season 3 finale. I think Dean of Doom will go on for one more season, but I'd be surprised if we see Sunlust in the next episode.
After playing SIGIL for myself and seeing others playing SIGIL and SIGIL II, I think I would describe Romero's maps as "slow with stumbles". The decaying buildings, crag-filled cliffs, and ruining of Hell's eyesight all make the player slow down from the usual "run-and-gun" you see in a lot of community WADs (e.g. NERF makes you rush almost every second to survive). SIGIL II's adherence to the checklist ended up dragging it down. I also think there was a lot of excess added to Ultra-Violence specifically to try and get one over UV-Maxers, Hurt Me Plenty has notably fewer Cyberdemons (as did the first SIGIL) although the overabundance of secrets is still an issue. Music was great overall (I don't think I've heard a bad MIDI from Jimmy) and definitely carries the WAD in several places. Curious to see if Hellion will be more of what we've seen in SIGIL/SIGIL II or if he's saving all his new ideas for that (minus the one map he released early a while back).
Mixed feeling about Sigil 2, i gotta admit. I very much enjoyed the original Sigil, but Sigil 2 seems to be more merciless towards the player in a way that just feels gratuitous. Also Sigil 1 was something new back in the day, and Sigil 2 will always be compared to it, and maybe feels less "fresh" when all is said and done. I think i still hold Sigil 1 closer to my heart, but this is by no means meant as a diss to Romero, much respect for the man ofc Thx for the new episode @MtPain27, it was much appreciated :)
Great to see you cover this wad. I had mixed feelings after beating Sigil 2, but it was great to see the ultimate evolution of the original Doom's level design. As always, it's great to see old veterans return to the scene, and it's kind of John (really all mappers, musicians, artists, and coders) to release free content for the franchise. Thanks for the video as always, MtPain.
I'm going to defend Romero by saying I entirely prefer this style of Dooming to what's become the standard for modern Doom maps, that being lots of megaspheres, ammo and high-tier demons. Small, meticulously designed maps where everything has a purpose is what I like in Doom. I like that a single imp or a shotgunner could be my downfall. I've finished SIGIL 2 twice and I'm on map 16 of Eviternity 2, though I find it a struggle to get enthused for even though I acknowledge the hard work and design put into it.
With that said, I think Romero has done all that he can with Doom 1 and if he wants to keep mapping (which I hope he will after Hellion) then he will hopefully stick to Doom 2 now.
Little late to the comments but I just wanted say thank you for the upload Dean. The start of this year has absolutely wiped the floor with me so far and your videos have been an amazing escape. Thank you for everything you do
I gave myself a couple of bullet boxes and a chaingun at the start of the first map, because I HATE ammo starvation. And even then, I BARELY beat it...by falling into the exit as I died. Ihese maps are way more fun if you don't pistol start. If I did that on every map. I'm sure I would have thrown my computer out the window lol I loved this WAD! Sad that I SEEM to be damn near the only one lol
The excessive number of secrets reminds me of Duke Nukem 3D, which suffered from the same problem (hence why never got 100% secrets in that game). Oh well. I actually liked Sigil II more than its predecessor regardless. It feels harder and more sophisticated. E6M6 is definitely my favorite. Took a bit of a break from Doom which is why I haven't watched this video straight away. Been getting into reading instead. Spent more money on books than I did on games! Been reading anything cool Dr. Pain? 👀
I love Sigil 1 and Sigil 2, its a nice change from the slaughter maps we get in a lot of wads, romero is really good at making just a few demons dangerous, and i do like ammo management/starvation. Running around being able to do whatever want i find less interesting.
Interesting to note that as an older Doom player these maps hit a sweet spot for me that balances nostalgia with a modern challenge. I had a blast playing these maps and loved every one, except for map 8, which I wonder if John was purposely trolling us who keep clamoring for a special and unique boss map.
Was interested to see what you thought of these maps as I was playing them on release. I could see what Romero's intent was with both Sigil 1 and 2, but I didn't particularly enjoy playing through either mapset. Sigil 1 was much too cramped for my liking and Sigil 2 was similar but seemed to let me breathe just a bit more. If anything, I think I preferred Sigil 2 more, but would likely not re-play either, which is the same for almost every PWAD - there are too many to keep with without playing through them twice!
When i originally heard about sigil 2 i honestly expected a doom 2 version of sigil with ssg and arch viles i was a little disappointed when i realised it was essentially sigil 1.5
This wad feels like a deliberate attempt by John to reinvent his traditional and well-established level desing, like he's trying his hardest to imitate Sandy Peterson's level design in the levels after Knee Deep In The Dead
As a 20 + year long Doom veteran, it's really nice to see someone who actually appreciate the art of Doom mapping. It kinda makes me nostalgic as I used to play most of these wads around the time of their release. If you like to punish yourself or getting bored from actual good wads, you can always try the absolute rite of passage which is called Tarakannik trilogy and contemplate your decisions at ever playing this game. In my opinion, Tarakannik gives the closest meaning of how it feels to be the Doom guy, As Hegel says, we cannot understand the whole without understanding the opposite, the anti and the negative. Tarakannik is that opposite, it's the opposite of every conventional map design, wad trick or actual gameplay, it's the anti-doom wad which has ever existed. It's entire existence is to mock Doom and ID Software. It's sinister, captivating, twisted and entirely inexplicable which can be only experienced through a full gameplay. Tarakannik just stands at there, innocuously, somewhere deep in Doomworld archives, inviting the unaware and unlucky enough to encounter it into it's abyss. And I dare you to try it, because I cannot bear this carry this curse myself anymore. You can take this comment either as an invitation or as a warning.
I havent gotten around to this yet since I'm not in a Doom 1 mood, but looking at the footage, these maps have some of the best visual design I've seen from Romero! If he were to have dropped maps that looked that good around the time Ultimate Doom came out, people would have freaked out.
John Romero's dabbling in doom is pretty awesome, as it's pretty clear that he has set himself up as the Dungeon Master of this twisted hellscape. He seems to have a very clear vision of what hell looks like to him; forcing the player to be observant, resourceful and sometimes to run out of a level screaming, clinging to the last few hitpoints. I haven't personally played this yet; but I couldn't help watch the first few episodes before this dropped; his mapping style pretty much likes to run counter to a lot of wad's staving the Doomguy of ammunition and making them weak, it will have to be something I try later. I am not really into hard WADs, I play to blow off steam and I am a bit of a rage gamer, but it does seem like the kind of wad to experience at least once. Wait, this isn't the DOD Finale? Oh Mtpain, more homework? You are spoiling us! XD I am genuinely curious on what WAD you intend to cover next.
Of the two superstar wads that came out for DOOM’s 30th Anniversary, Sigil II was definitely the weakest. I didn’t love it as much as Sigil, and, while it’s unfair to compare it to Eviternity II, there’s such a massive difference in enjoyment between the two wads. I’m very glad we’re not ending S3 on a whimper
Your videos are always comforting. Have not played sigil 2 yet, but I hope it is half as good as 1. And a question if I may ask, how do you think romeros more recent mapping efforts compare to his work on episode 1 of doom? Is his recent work better or worse than his ealier outingg?
If this is not the season finale... and usually it ends at episode 20... Teacher Mt. Pain is cooking something Dangeresque... maybe solving the Ribbiks' Cube... Chasing Suns with Strenght and Anger Whatever it is... this series will always have a place in my heart as a Doom fan... for how long it still lasts o7
Would you ever consider playing hellonearthstarterpack/Extermination Day? It's a weird request i know but it was one of my earliest exposures to doom mapping back in the mid 2010s and i have a weird sense of nostalgia for it
It's a shame this one didn't live up to Sigil's standard, but I'm excited for the season finale. I don't suppose there's any chance it'll be Combat Shock 2 instead of Eviternity 2, but ever since I saw the revenant pyramid in the trailer, I've been excited for the MtPain27 review of CS2. Maybe it ended up on the cutting room floor of the slaughter-themed April Fool's Sawed-Off Wads episode, and if so, that's a shame, but I'm glad you're still making these at such high quality. Nice work as always!
Interesting, I thought this would've been the season finale but I suppose not given the last couple of seconds. I wonder if it'll be dedicated to the other special project released on Doom's 30th. Whatever it is I can't wait! This was a pretty fair assessment of Sigil 2 IMO. I love what it represents for the community and Doom at large but I think Romero could've dialed down some of the maps in terms of the typical Sigil II gimmicks. It's a pretty solid set of maps overall.
2 maps into this WAD and I was pretty confident I had no desire to play it any further. Hearing the experience described here more or less cements that for me. I'm thrilled that Romero came back to Doom after all this time and reinvigorated his passion, but I can't say I really like his brand of "cranked all the way up".
I watched John make most of these maps on his Twitch (well, most may be an overstatement but I vividly remember him doing MAP01 anyway). I feel like the SIGIL story died with a whimper with SIGIL 2. I feel like it was one of those "John did all he could with the idea, and unfortunately that was a bit too much." things. I'm excited that he said he was doing a Doom 2 megawad next. I kind of have low expectations, but his Doom 2 maps were my favorite of the whole game. Who knows what we'll get.
I applaud John for this wad. I never would have thought he could pull this off, but he somehow managed to make Sigil II even more underwhelming than the first one.
The main thing I didn't like about Sigil 2 is that many of the maps looked way too similar, especially with that dark blue skybox all of them had. There were some unique-looking entries like E6M3: Shattered Homecoming, but pretty much every map in Sigil 2 seemed to just be some variation of dark blue sky with reddish hell-rocks and 20-damaging lava in between. Compare that to Sigil 1, where you had (in my opinion, at least) some truly ominous-looking maps like E5M6: Unspeakable Persecution. The dark area in which you obtain the BFG has an oppressive atmosphere unmatched by any other Doom 1 IWAD map. To my eyes, at least, it seemed like Sigil 1's maps had greater variety in textures from map to map, whereas Sigil 2 seems to have been built according to a strict theme, perhaps to give the player the impression that he is progressing through a large, specific region in hell with each map representing another portion of that infernal realm. If that's what Romero was going for, I can understand, but I personally like a bit more variation in my mapset than that. And I also happen to like techbase and corrupted techbase aesthetic far more than hell levels, so I guess it isn't surprising that I wasn't really a fan of Sigil 2's mapping direction other than E6M9. If I were designing Sigil 2, I would have made E6M9 the first level, then had the next few maps gradually transition from techbase to full-on hell aesthetic, but that's just my personal taste and definitely runs counter to the vision which Romero had for Sigil 2 as a sequel to Sigil 1. That said, the message on the ending intermission screen which mentions something about "Hellion" makes me wonder if that is Romero's next project as a 7th episode for Doom? If so, I hope "Hellion" is just a working title for the upcoming WAD as I know that Romero et al. can probably come up with a slightly better name that doesn't invoke mental images of green-haired post-apocalyptic gangsters with too much leather and gratuitous spikes, heh. I'd go with "Hell-forged" or "Hellbound" as better titles for the 7th semi-official episode of Doom... but as they say, don't judge a WAD by its title.
I feel bad I didn't get around to playing this yet, but last year I really got burned out on Doom. Still think I should pair this with whatever surprise Romero has for us this year, with Doom 2's 30th coming.
Figured this one would happen at some point, wasn't expecting it this season though! Unplanned extra episode perhaps? Out of interest, are you covering C-shock 1 too, or just C-shock 2? There's a couple of good maps in the first one that don't get the love they deserve.
I wonder if DoD might do something crazy like review Eternal Doom and Combat Shock 2 together. The hard contrast between the polar opposite designs would make for some interesting commentary.
7:52 I find it interesting this area also reminded me of Perdition's Gate and the level name contains 'Wrath' which is very close to 'Wraith' who made Perdition's Gate. (Wraithful Reckoning would have been a fantastic pun...)
I recognize that this is made as part of Ultimate Doom… but will John ever made some maps with the expanded enemy roster of Doom II?? I’d love to see him take advantage of chain gunners, revenants, mancubi, pain elementals… having a super shotgun… etc. All that good stuff.
Thus proving ol' Johnny's in it for the long haul, and the mapping community at large is better for it. On an unrelated note, I think I recommended Moonblood for an episode, but after replaying it and it's sequels I'm getting the feeling the whole trilogy is meant to be taken in one massive bite, with each of the three feeling more like one episode in a larger "ultraWAD" due to the difficulty curve in Exomoon starting where Moonblood ended, and so on. That...might be too big a project. Moonblood on its own is still great though if you like techbases. I'd still love an episode on that.
fuck yeah man. just got done deathmatching my homie earlier today, sat down feeling inspired to watch some doomtube. And I see this video. fuck yeah man.
Bonus season episode, heading to 21 here we go (and there's been three non-numbered Sawed Off's)! Here's hoping an epic finale (not just an April Fool, as nice as that was in Season 2) in the works 😀 SIGIL II kind of gave me the same overall impression, certainly differing from its predecessor but I wouldn't say it truly built on it, though I respect the desire to not *just* do what's been done before and I also enjoy the interspersed tech elements that are part of an overall late-episode rally (sans the closer). Maybe there'll be an update to sand this wad's issues off a bit, like with SIGIL 1; time will tell! Certainly want Hellion, in any case. And it's also cool both landmark 25th anniversary wads got their numbered 30th anniversary successors. Eviternity II quickly becoming one of my most awaited DoD (hopefully) eventualities.
It really feels like Romero went out of his way to tell you UV is not meant to be the default experience and is instead an extra challenge. A Cyberdemon before you even get a shotgun?! That’s just mean. I think that’s okay for one map, but the gimmick does outstay it’s welcome for me. Unfortunately taking the difficulty down a peg feels a bit too neutered, and you can really feel the missing Doom 2 monsters when the maps don’t depend on constant Cyberdemon harassment. Loved the secret map though, I think that was my favorite one.
Bending the formula a bit for an Episode 21 finale hm? The question on everyone's minds then must surely be if you've done this specifically for Eviternity II. I see reasons for and against that idea. The for is obvious, Eviternity II is a masterpiece. Where the first's pacing sags in places and otherwise has definite low points only one map in Eviternity II didn't completely satisfy me on first playthrough and that was primarily for reasons not associated with the actual map itself. The set is worthy of an extra long script and over a dozen highlighted MIDIs, absolutely season finale material. The main thing going against a possible Ev. II finale is that there are WADs that appeared in the season's trailer that have yet to be covered. The WAD also may not yet be finalised, at the time of writing we've been on RC5 for quite a while now but an "RC" is not a "Final".
@@William_Huber nah, they weren't that bad. It was fun to look for them, restart and try again. The mandatory cyberdemons in every map was the issue I've had, especially in E6M1 and E6M2. The former completely derails the balance of the opening level, the latter is useless.
![ประสบการณ์ จ้าง Developer ที่ผมจะไม่มีวันลืม [ภาค1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bzivN4KDg-k/mqdefault.jpg)
Whether this wad is good or bad, I have to say kudos to John Romero, Jimmy, and the other team members for presenting a gift to the community, to celebrate the 30th anniversary of Doom. Like the series of Sigil, I hope to see more original veterans to make a comeback in the future. Imagine an official sequel of Plutonia by Casali brothers, that would be really cool. Thank you for the another amazing season of Dean of Doom! 😄👍
I love Romero's edgy map names. They make the 2000's edgelord teen I once was happy.
And yeah, while I ususally aim for 100%, I know that's almost a lost cause with Sigil and its sequel.
Also, congrats on another excellent season, Dean. I assume you'll start S4 with the OTHER Doom's 30th B-day present wad.
It’s one in the morning, drowned in food orders, was ready to pass out on my meal break and the lad posts at the perfect time!
Great send off to S3 Dean!
The season’s not over :)
@@MtPain27Can't be over until Eviternity 2 is covered!
@@angeldiselatciaor Eternall Doom 👀👀
@@angeldiselatciapersonally I feel like eviternity 2 is a perfect wad to start off season 4 with a bang, eternal doom fits as a season 3 closer
@@mammatic6107 Agreed just played Eternal Doom for the first time wow, that final map took me 4 hours maybe more.
I absolutely love the fact that one of the creators of Doom has joined the mapping community. Something similar happened with the Alien Vendetta MIDI pack a-la Plutonia Pack where Chris Laverdure came back and re-did map20's music.
Guess you were right; Doom never really leaves you, you just take extended breaks.
Another good episode, looking forward to the finale.
Don't forget: Lee Jackson, the Legend himself, also contributed to the AV MIDI pack.
@@vvcq Oh shit, so he did. How the hell did I forget that!
Hey, not related to the video, but I just wanted to thank you for running this series. I’m a full time college student and as I’m sure you could guess it means Imm very busy. But, in early high school I got really in to trying to doom map, but I lost motivation with how overwhelmed I was with everything else in my life. But recently I’ve gotten back into it, more than I ever have. This series has been quintessential in not only finding new inspiration for my own work, but also through experiencing a knowledgable and well-spoken perspective on what makes a level good. I could only ever hope that someday I could make the Dean’s list myself. Sincerely, thank you. And keep dooming my friend. 🫡
- Not John Romero’s Bitch (didn’t play dikatana)
I think Sigil 2’s soundtrack should be appreciated more. It’s peak Doom music for me.
Yeah I regularly listen to some of the tracks outside the wad, or at the gym. Particularly Maps 5 and 6 are my favorite, as well as the intermission theme and Map 1. Jimmy Paddock writes some amazing midi metal.
6:10: "That's why I'm selling it to you; it's got a large bite out of it!"
Speaking as a religious and unapologetic non-100percenting HMP-continuous savescummer; the progression, adventure, and wealth of secrets in this mapset make it way more fun for me than Sigil 1, which I found somewhat stilted by comparison, IMO. Romero just feels like he was having more fun with this one; a suspicion confirmed by his livestreams. I also just love the texturing and use of architecture and lighting in this one more than Sigil 1; it gives a much better sense of place to many of the levels, and makes progression generally less obtuse because of those design decisions.
What can I say...I just love this one. :D In replaying it since Christmas, it's an easy top 10 wad for me.
Glad to see you back. ❤
IMO, Sigil 1 is more memorable and fun to play through. The levels are more focused and tightly-knit with appropriate combat. I know most people prefer the midi, but I absolutely love the Buckethead OST. It conjures up a reflection of the player's journey through all of Ultimate Doom, and Sigil 1 gave Ultimate Doom a sense of closure and finality before transitioning over to Doom 2. That being said, I wish Romero made Sigil 2, for Doom 2. Also, I feel compelled to mention the price point for the Sigil 2 Physical Box Collector's edition. $70, John, really?
Almost ending Season 3 with one of two gifts on Doom's 30th birthday! I'm alright with you using James Paddock's MIDIs. Though I do prefer Thorr's OST.
DEAN OF 'LET ME GET MY FANS OFF TO A GOOD START THIS WEEK'
Well, that's a surprise for today!
On the one hand, Doctor MtPain managed to escape the moon-logic factory known as _Eternal Doom_ (despite showing it in the Season 3 trailer).
On the other hand, though... The season finale is not Sunlust; that means we are getting at least one more season. Which means good news!
Also - Vomitorium of Disappointment +1 for E6M2 (AKA the one with the best MIDI track).
*_Heyyy psssstttt_* you do know that there is no season finale written in the title? So that means we do have another episode coming in :)
Yay, the funny mountain man is back!
Edit: 6:04 Wait, aren't those textures said to be references to Romero's old dumpster fire game *Daikatana?*
Edit 2: Wait what do you mean this *isn't* the season finale?!
A surprise to see Sigil II here! Also, I'm placing my bets on Eternal Doom or Eviternity II being the long-awaited season 3 finale. I think Dean of Doom will go on for one more season, but I'd be surprised if we see Sunlust in the next episode.
Always good to see another Dean of Doom! And good to see Romero making Doom maps 30 years later.
After playing SIGIL for myself and seeing others playing SIGIL and SIGIL II, I think I would describe Romero's maps as "slow with stumbles". The decaying buildings, crag-filled cliffs, and ruining of Hell's eyesight all make the player slow down from the usual "run-and-gun" you see in a lot of community WADs (e.g. NERF makes you rush almost every second to survive). SIGIL II's adherence to the checklist ended up dragging it down. I also think there was a lot of excess added to Ultra-Violence specifically to try and get one over UV-Maxers, Hurt Me Plenty has notably fewer Cyberdemons (as did the first SIGIL) although the overabundance of secrets is still an issue. Music was great overall (I don't think I've heard a bad MIDI from Jimmy) and definitely carries the WAD in several places. Curious to see if Hellion will be more of what we've seen in SIGIL/SIGIL II or if he's saving all his new ideas for that (minus the one map he released early a while back).
Mixed feeling about Sigil 2, i gotta admit. I very much enjoyed the original Sigil, but Sigil 2 seems to be more merciless towards the player in a way that just feels gratuitous. Also Sigil 1 was something new back in the day, and Sigil 2 will always be compared to it, and maybe feels less "fresh" when all is said and done. I think i still hold Sigil 1 closer to my heart, but this is by no means meant as a diss to Romero, much respect for the man ofc
Thx for the new episode @MtPain27, it was much appreciated :)
Wake up babe, new Dean of Doom just dropped
YES
Easiest Patreon sub, hands down. Always love to see a new Dean of Doom ❤️💪
When I got this notification I jumped up and down with joy! Dean of Doom isn’t over, the show must go on!!!!!!
Great to see you cover this wad. I had mixed feelings after beating Sigil 2, but it was great to see the ultimate evolution of the original Doom's level design. As always, it's great to see old veterans return to the scene, and it's kind of John (really all mappers, musicians, artists, and coders) to release free content for the franchise. Thanks for the video as always, MtPain.
Best thing Decino has put me onto yet! Love your stuff Mr. Pain, plus you're giving me more DOOM wads to stream. Keep up the great work!
Watching Dean of Doom makes me feel like I'm sipping from a glass of fine wine.
I'm going to defend Romero by saying I entirely prefer this style of Dooming to what's become the standard for modern Doom maps, that being lots of megaspheres, ammo and high-tier demons. Small, meticulously designed maps where everything has a purpose is what I like in Doom. I like that a single imp or a shotgunner could be my downfall. I've finished SIGIL 2 twice and I'm on map 16 of Eviternity 2, though I find it a struggle to get enthused for even though I acknowledge the hard work and design put into it.
With that said, I think Romero has done all that he can with Doom 1 and if he wants to keep mapping (which I hope he will after Hellion) then he will hopefully stick to Doom 2 now.
Always a good day when one of these gets uploaded. Thanks sir
Nice one mate, good to see you review this wad. Looking forward to your inevitable Eviternity II review
Soon enough, the channel supporter names will be half of the episode. Good stuff i say.
Edit was due to auto correct mistakes
Little late to the comments but I just wanted say thank you for the upload Dean. The start of this year has absolutely wiped the floor with me so far and your videos have been an amazing escape. Thank you for everything you do
I gave myself a couple of bullet boxes and a chaingun at the start of the first map, because I HATE ammo starvation. And even then, I BARELY beat it...by falling into the exit as I died.
Ihese maps are way more fun if you don't pistol start. If I did that on every map. I'm sure I would have thrown my computer out the window lol
I loved this WAD! Sad that I SEEM to be damn near the only one lol
Great episode! And thanks for keeping a level headed review when dealing with someone of status!
Now i patiently bide my time wishing for Evi 2 DoD
Yay a new Dean of Doom just dropped perfect way to end the day cause I am watching this at 6 PM lol
The excessive number of secrets reminds me of Duke Nukem 3D, which suffered from the same problem (hence why never got 100% secrets in that game). Oh well. I actually liked Sigil II more than its predecessor regardless. It feels harder and more sophisticated. E6M6 is definitely my favorite.
Took a bit of a break from Doom which is why I haven't watched this video straight away. Been getting into reading instead. Spent more money on books than I did on games!
Been reading anything cool Dr. Pain? 👀
I just finished an excellent book called A Pale View of Hills by Kazuo Ishiguro. It was just what I needed last week.
hell yeah. season finale. that means season 4 babyyyyy! otherwise he would have heard series finale woooo! very excited
There's one more episode for this season. Listen to the very end of this video
I love Sigil 1 and Sigil 2, its a nice change from the slaughter maps we get in a lot of wads, romero is really good at making just a few demons dangerous, and i do like ammo management/starvation. Running around being able to do whatever want i find less interesting.
Interesting to note that as an older Doom player these maps hit a sweet spot for me that balances nostalgia with a modern challenge. I had a blast playing these maps and loved every one, except for map 8, which I wonder if John was purposely trolling us who keep clamoring for a special and unique boss map.
1:18 actual gameplay footage starts here. This is good stuff and i didnt want people to potentially think it was audio only
Was interested to see what you thought of these maps as I was playing them on release. I could see what Romero's intent was with both Sigil 1 and 2, but I didn't particularly enjoy playing through either mapset. Sigil 1 was much too cramped for my liking and Sigil 2 was similar but seemed to let me breathe just a bit more. If anything, I think I preferred Sigil 2 more, but would likely not re-play either, which is the same for almost every PWAD - there are too many to keep with without playing through them twice!
When i originally heard about sigil 2 i honestly expected a doom 2 version of sigil with ssg and arch viles i was a little disappointed when i realised it was essentially sigil 1.5
Yessss. Discovered your series like a month ago, been watching them all ever since!
Terrific
It's a very binge-able series.
This wad feels like a deliberate attempt by John to reinvent his traditional and well-established level desing, like he's trying his hardest to imitate Sandy Peterson's level design in the levels after Knee Deep In The Dead
Romero is Back at it again with SIGIL II damn
Isn't Hurt me Plenty supposed to be the sweet spots for both Sigils? We've gotten used to UV being the "default"
"Isn't Hurt me Plenty supposed to be the sweet spots for both Sigils?"
*yes it is*
Just punched out, got home and sat on the couch and look whos alert comes on the moment my butt hit the couch?
Perfect timing.
Yay! Dean of Doom is back! Missed you man!
As a 20 + year long Doom veteran, it's really nice to see someone who actually appreciate the art of Doom mapping. It kinda makes me nostalgic as I used to play most of these wads around the time of their release.
If you like to punish yourself or getting bored from actual good wads, you can always try the absolute rite of passage which is called Tarakannik trilogy and contemplate your decisions at ever playing this game. In my opinion, Tarakannik gives the closest meaning of how it feels to be the Doom guy, As Hegel says, we cannot understand the whole without understanding the opposite, the anti and the negative. Tarakannik is that opposite, it's the opposite of every conventional map design, wad trick or actual gameplay, it's the anti-doom wad which has ever existed. It's entire existence is to mock Doom and ID Software. It's sinister, captivating, twisted and entirely inexplicable which can be only experienced through a full gameplay. Tarakannik just stands at there, innocuously, somewhere deep in Doomworld archives, inviting the unaware and unlucky enough to encounter it into it's abyss. And I dare you to try it, because I cannot bear this carry this curse myself anymore. You can take this comment either as an invitation or as a warning.
It's been a crappy day. I'm glad I get to end it on a high note.
There's definitely more of that old school design with Sigil II.
Had a lot of fun with this, moreso than Sigil tbh. Love Romero's style. Imagine his design and Sandy P's work ethic in one guy...scary.
I havent gotten around to this yet since I'm not in a Doom 1 mood, but looking at the footage, these maps have some of the best visual design I've seen from Romero! If he were to have dropped maps that looked that good around the time Ultimate Doom came out, people would have freaked out.
One of my favorite channels
OH SHIT ITS NOT SUNLUST, SEASON 4 CONFIRMED!!!!
Edit: oh there's one more episode in season 3. Eviternity 2? Let's hope so!
Now I have to see the season finale.
John Romero's dabbling in doom is pretty awesome, as it's pretty clear that he has set himself up as the Dungeon Master of this twisted hellscape. He seems to have a very clear vision of what hell looks like to him; forcing the player to be observant, resourceful and sometimes to run out of a level screaming, clinging to the last few hitpoints.
I haven't personally played this yet; but I couldn't help watch the first few episodes before this dropped; his mapping style pretty much likes to run counter to a lot of wad's staving the Doomguy of ammunition and making them weak, it will have to be something I try later. I am not really into hard WADs, I play to blow off steam and I am a bit of a rage gamer, but it does seem like the kind of wad to experience at least once.
Wait, this isn't the DOD Finale? Oh Mtpain, more homework? You are spoiling us! XD I am genuinely curious on what WAD you intend to cover next.
Of the two superstar wads that came out for DOOM’s 30th Anniversary, Sigil II was definitely the weakest. I didn’t love it as much as Sigil, and, while it’s unfair to compare it to Eviternity II, there’s such a massive difference in enjoyment between the two wads. I’m very glad we’re not ending S3 on a whimper
Agreed. It is a mandatory play, but definitely enjoyed Sigil 1 more.
Your videos are always comforting. Have not played sigil 2 yet, but I hope it is half as good as 1. And a question if I may ask, how do you think romeros more recent mapping efforts compare to his work on episode 1 of doom? Is his recent work better or worse than his ealier outingg?
I don't really think it's possible to compare the two fairly. E1 is iconic, and the Sigils are quite good.
I’m very surprised we received a review of 2023’s Sigil II before 1997’s Eternal Doom.
I don't review wads in chronological order :)
Man such a long wait glad to see you finally back! im starting to wonder if this is a once a Month thing now
Sigil 2 is the perfect example of a wad that I’m sure was fun to make from high atop the armchair, but is not fun to play.
If this is not the season finale... and usually it ends at episode 20...
Teacher Mt. Pain is cooking something Dangeresque... maybe solving the Ribbiks' Cube... Chasing Suns with Strenght and Anger
Whatever it is... this series will always have a place in my heart as a Doom fan... for how long it still lasts o7
Would you ever consider playing hellonearthstarterpack/Extermination Day? It's a weird request i know but it was one of my earliest exposures to doom mapping back in the mid 2010s and i have a weird sense of nostalgia for it
It's a shame this one didn't live up to Sigil's standard, but I'm excited for the season finale. I don't suppose there's any chance it'll be Combat Shock 2 instead of Eviternity 2, but ever since I saw the revenant pyramid in the trailer, I've been excited for the MtPain27 review of CS2. Maybe it ended up on the cutting room floor of the slaughter-themed April Fool's Sawed-Off Wads episode, and if so, that's a shame, but I'm glad you're still making these at such high quality. Nice work as always!
Fear not, CS2 will be covered this season.
@@MtPain27 Hell yeah baby
welcome to: To Many Cyberdemons!
Interesting, I thought this would've been the season finale but I suppose not given the last couple of seconds. I wonder if it'll be dedicated to the other special project released on Doom's 30th. Whatever it is I can't wait! This was a pretty fair assessment of Sigil 2 IMO. I love what it represents for the community and Doom at large but I think Romero could've dialed down some of the maps in terms of the typical Sigil II gimmicks. It's a pretty solid set of maps overall.
I haven't watched yet, let me guess:
Best - e6m7
2nd best - e6m6
Hardest - e6m6
Edited: Ha! Got it😎
I was waiting for a new episode , thanks 😊
2 maps into this WAD and I was pretty confident I had no desire to play it any further. Hearing the experience described here more or less cements that for me. I'm thrilled that Romero came back to Doom after all this time and reinvigorated his passion, but I can't say I really like his brand of "cranked all the way up".
Same thing. I dropped it on E6M4
Is there a reason you stick to Zdoom instead of updating to GZdoom or switching to DSDA?
I watched John make most of these maps on his Twitch (well, most may be an overstatement but I vividly remember him doing MAP01 anyway). I feel like the SIGIL story died with a whimper with SIGIL 2. I feel like it was one of those "John did all he could with the idea, and unfortunately that was a bit too much." things. I'm excited that he said he was doing a Doom 2 megawad next. I kind of have low expectations, but his Doom 2 maps were my favorite of the whole game. Who knows what we'll get.
One Humanity was fantastic, imho. I'm very excited for Hellion on that basis alone.
I applaud John for this wad. I never would have thought he could pull this off, but he somehow managed to make Sigil II even more underwhelming than the first one.
Your narration style reminds me of NPR or Golf. Very relaxing. Do you have a ranking of all the megawads video? If not, one would be appreciated.
The main thing I didn't like about Sigil 2 is that many of the maps looked way too similar, especially with that dark blue skybox all of them had. There were some unique-looking entries like E6M3: Shattered Homecoming, but pretty much every map in Sigil 2 seemed to just be some variation of dark blue sky with reddish hell-rocks and 20-damaging lava in between.
Compare that to Sigil 1, where you had (in my opinion, at least) some truly ominous-looking maps like E5M6: Unspeakable Persecution. The dark area in which you obtain the BFG has an oppressive atmosphere unmatched by any other Doom 1 IWAD map. To my eyes, at least, it seemed like Sigil 1's maps had greater variety in textures from map to map, whereas Sigil 2 seems to have been built according to a strict theme, perhaps to give the player the impression that he is progressing through a large, specific region in hell with each map representing another portion of that infernal realm. If that's what Romero was going for, I can understand, but I personally like a bit more variation in my mapset than that. And I also happen to like techbase and corrupted techbase aesthetic far more than hell levels, so I guess it isn't surprising that I wasn't really a fan of Sigil 2's mapping direction other than E6M9.
If I were designing Sigil 2, I would have made E6M9 the first level, then had the next few maps gradually transition from techbase to full-on hell aesthetic, but that's just my personal taste and definitely runs counter to the vision which Romero had for Sigil 2 as a sequel to Sigil 1.
That said, the message on the ending intermission screen which mentions something about "Hellion" makes me wonder if that is Romero's next project as a 7th episode for Doom? If so, I hope "Hellion" is just a working title for the upcoming WAD as I know that Romero et al. can probably come up with a slightly better name that doesn't invoke mental images of green-haired post-apocalyptic gangsters with too much leather and gratuitous spikes, heh. I'd go with "Hell-forged" or "Hellbound" as better titles for the 7th semi-official episode of Doom... but as they say, don't judge a WAD by its title.
I feel bad I didn't get around to playing this yet, but last year I really got burned out on Doom. Still think I should pair this with whatever surprise Romero has for us this year, with Doom 2's 30th coming.
The Sigils are cruel in a way many of the marque WADs of the last decade aren't and I appreciate that. They work very well at their short lengths.
Cool stufff John et al, but can you PLEASE make D2 WADs now
Figured this one would happen at some point, wasn't expecting it this season though! Unplanned extra episode perhaps?
Out of interest, are you covering C-shock 1 too, or just C-shock 2? There's a couple of good maps in the first one that don't get the love they deserve.
Yep, this was added to the S3 roster as a bonus. Re: c-shock, we shall see.
@@MtPain27 Well colour me intrigued then.
Another Dean video, let's go! I'll sit here and wait for The Dean of Doom to play new Sunder
Let's maybe do Old Sunder first
my favorite doomtuber ❤
The man, the legend is back! 💪
I wonder if DoD might do something crazy like review Eternal Doom and Combat Shock 2 together. The hard contrast between the polar opposite designs would make for some interesting commentary.
I feel he’s going to fare much better for Hellion. a full 32 maps over a 9 map episode basically demands a higher standard
7:52 I find it interesting this area also reminded me of Perdition's Gate and the level name contains 'Wrath' which is very close to 'Wraith' who made Perdition's Gate. (Wraithful Reckoning would have been a fantastic pun...)
I recognize that this is made as part of Ultimate Doom… but will John ever made some maps with the expanded enemy roster of Doom II??
I’d love to see him take advantage of chain gunners, revenants, mancubi, pain elementals… having a super shotgun… etc. All that good stuff.
Thus proving ol' Johnny's in it for the long haul, and the mapping community at large is better for it.
On an unrelated note, I think I recommended Moonblood for an episode, but after replaying it and it's sequels I'm getting the feeling the whole trilogy is meant to be taken in one massive bite, with each of the three feeling more like one episode in a larger "ultraWAD" due to the difficulty curve in Exomoon starting where Moonblood ended, and so on.
That...might be too big a project.
Moonblood on its own is still great though if you like techbases. I'd still love an episode on that.
fuck yeah man. just got done deathmatching my homie earlier today, sat down feeling inspired to watch some doomtube. And I see this video. fuck yeah man.
eviternity ii completely overshadowing romero's mediocre episode is a brilliant and kinda wholesome example of the community outdoing its creators 8~8
i’d imagine there’s a good chance John’s probably heard of it too
Bonus season episode, heading to 21 here we go (and there's been three non-numbered Sawed Off's)! Here's hoping an epic finale (not just an April Fool, as nice as that was in Season 2) in the works 😀
SIGIL II kind of gave me the same overall impression, certainly differing from its predecessor but I wouldn't say it truly built on it, though I respect the desire to not *just* do what's been done before and I also enjoy the interspersed tech elements that are part of an overall late-episode rally (sans the closer). Maybe there'll be an update to sand this wad's issues off a bit, like with SIGIL 1; time will tell! Certainly want Hellion, in any case.
And it's also cool both landmark 25th anniversary wads got their numbered 30th anniversary successors. Eviternity II quickly becoming one of my most awaited DoD (hopefully) eventualities.
YES THE PEAK HAS RETURNED DOOM KIDS!
Great Video
To the one guy that was wondering:
It was not Eviternity II.
Eternal Doom for the finale? Eviternity 2 for the season 4 premiere?
Yay daddy mountpain27 is back🎉
i really wanted to ask you what do you think of thorr's soundtrack ? i personally listen to some of his songs almost on daily XD
I've never heard it
@@MtPain27 you should give it a try, personal opinion: absolutely underrated!
0:08 AAAH DON'T STAND THERE!!!
It really feels like Romero went out of his way to tell you UV is not meant to be the default experience and is instead an extra challenge. A Cyberdemon before you even get a shotgun?! That’s just mean. I think that’s okay for one map, but the gimmick does outstay it’s welcome for me. Unfortunately taking the difficulty down a peg feels a bit too neutered, and you can really feel the missing Doom 2 monsters when the maps don’t depend on constant Cyberdemon harassment. Loved the secret map though, I think that was my favorite one.
Bending the formula a bit for an Episode 21 finale hm? The question on everyone's minds then must surely be if you've done this specifically for Eviternity II. I see reasons for and against that idea.
The for is obvious, Eviternity II is a masterpiece. Where the first's pacing sags in places and otherwise has definite low points only one map in Eviternity II didn't completely satisfy me on first playthrough and that was primarily for reasons not associated with the actual map itself. The set is worthy of an extra long script and over a dozen highlighted MIDIs, absolutely season finale material. The main thing going against a possible Ev. II finale is that there are WADs that appeared in the season's trailer that have yet to be covered. The WAD also may not yet be finalised, at the time of writing we've been on RC5 for quite a while now but an "RC" is not a "Final".
Todays gonna be a good day
Hurrah, been waitin for this one
EDIT: Yeah I agree with pretty much everything you said. Preferred Sigil I.
Love the gimmicks, and love the middle finger to completionists. Feels like he's playing a joke on the community and I'm all up for it.
Loved the fireblu secrets. What a troll. :D
FIREBLU "super-secrets" are a nice touch.
Secrets that close off permanently after 30 seconds, much less so.
@@William_Huber nah, they weren't that bad. It was fun to look for them, restart and try again. The mandatory cyberdemons in every map was the issue I've had, especially in E6M1 and E6M2. The former completely derails the balance of the opening level, the latter is useless.
Yaaaasssss, wb DoD!!
imscared
..question, will you perhaps open up an excel spreadsheet for every WAD you've played, plus its corresponding grades after the finale?
It's available on Patreon, with updates.