But... Wesley was a self insert character of Gene Roddenberrys... surely the message isnt that when Gene Roddenberry gains total control of the "ship" his self reinforced ideologies lead to the downfall of the "ship"??? Thats deep man😯
AKA overindulged elitist pricks in way over their heads. how have they possibly survived that long with all the sane people (AKA the commanders) killed is beyond me.
I go out of my way to avoid this episode because it was hard to watch just blatant arrogance and pride coming from the cadets not understanding the consequences of there actions also since nog graduated from Starfleet Academy with that means he out ranks the cadets
@@JeanLucCaptain well, flaws aside I think it was obvious that they were very well trained and very competent at their jobs. The story isnt about a bunch of people that suck, its about a bunch of people that are great but suffer some fatal flaw of character.
as an enlisted officer, Nog would have instantly outranked everyone aboard the Valiant, thus he could have taken command according to the chain of command. He was an ensign, but they were cadets. He outranked them.
no, enlisted. If Nog was Commissioned, he would have been offered a rank. His Ensign rank was not offered, it was earned, therefore he was enlisted.@@morganb6717
@thesnesman5235 Considering this was during a time of war, it's safe to assume Nog was a Line Officer, so even as an Ensign, not assigned to the Valiant, he could have taken command. This is especially true considering there were no other commissioned officers aboard Valiant, just cadets. But yeah, they were all Lord of the Flies brain scrambled so the would have just thrown Nog in the Brig if he tried to take the Captain's chair...
Nog was outnumbered and around the same age as the cadets. With their delusional states of mind he likely couldn’t just take over. He lacked gravitas. They needed an adult to take charge.
This episode always drove me nuts! The concept isn't bad but at this point nog is an ensign and all of red squad are cadets. He he became the commanding officer the minute he walked on board.
I really like it when Star Trek confronts Starfleet with extreme circumstances and explores how this affects the people serving in it. It's a great tradition started in the original series and carried through all series so far. The valiant is likely my favorite example of this, especially with its focus on the youth of the cadets aboard -how quickly they could be shaped into people unrecognizable to the idealistic starfleet we sometimes see.
Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win. Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets. I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.
They also had a senior crew in charge. Sisko wouldnt risk his crew on a gamble like that. The mission was to observe the dominion ship that was twice the size of a galaxy class. It was not to destory it. Multiple times in the series sisko becomes mentally not capable of captaining the ship. That when dax, worf, or Kira take over for him.
I think Jake said that even Sisko wouldn't have risked such a run at the battlecruiser, especially as there was no order or mission to do that in the first place, just to gather intelligence (and the destruction of the Valiant lost most of that information along with it). Also, another thing that the Defiant prototype had was ablative armour. It is possible that the Valiant had it too, but other episodes hint that this is a rather rare addition, since the captain of the USS Lakota was unaware of this secondary line of defence.
Incorrect about mission parameters. They were training when war kicked off. Starfleet sent new orders and the fake captain decided to take the mission instead of returning after officers were killed.
He also failed to relay that information to Starfleet, which would have ordered the Valiant home had they known that all of the officers on board were dead. Cadet Fuck Face lied in order to maintain his position as captain, and all of his fellow cadets died for it.
Accroding to starfleet protical why full ensign nog not asume direct command of the uss valiant one he was beamed on board? Last time i checked ensign still out ranks catets
I don't know the exact SF regulations...but I'm guessing Nog may outrank them, but he isn't in the chain of command. He's not their direct superior. And unofficially, I doubt they would listen to Nog if he tried anything. He doesn't have the support of the crew (outside of Jake). Plus, I wouldn't put it passed that crazy teenager Captain to throw Nog outside an airlock if Nog tried to forcibly take command, and just report that "Nog was killed in action". That captain was drunk off his own power. He kept coming up with reasons to stay in the field, and not return to Federation space.
The crew was granted field Promotions, similar to how Wesley was granted a field promotion to full ensign. Better question is around that Dorian character. WHY is she a "Chief Petty officer" when that is a non-commision rank? something that is obtained without going to Starfleet academy and becoming a commissioned officer - she is literally in Starfleet Academy!
Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win. Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets. I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.
Red Squad is what happens when you tell a bunch of inexperienced cadets repeatedly how great they are until they lose any and all awareness of their fallibility. They represent a massive failure on the part of Starfleet Academy, as one of the most important parts of being a Starfleet officer is knowing how to face failure.
This is actually the second appearance of Red Squadron, the first being in DS9's two part Homefront episode. Nog a young cadet freshly arrived at the Academy, is enamored with Red Squad, and wants to join them. This might explain why he is so ready to join them, and isn't so keen on usurping command by trying to pull rank. One of the members of Red Squad in this episode, was in the Homefront episode. In that episode, he confirms that they committed an act of sabotage against the Earth under orders from an Admiral, but he and the rest of Red Squad are mysteriously sent off on a top secret mission before he can testify to this before the President of the Federation. Meaning, this episode is a sequel to Homefront, their mission and radio silence were a ruse enacted by the senior staff that died during their mission, and the deaths of all these cadets was nothing more than a coverup of a failed coup by Starfleet officers. Really makes watching the episode even more fun for me knowing this.
did you even watch the episode? 2 mins in and some glaring faults first they weren't in Cardassian space when the war started they were in Federation space but the sector was invaded on day 1 whilst they were in it and they found themselves behind enemy lines, also the original mission of the Valiant was a training cruise circumnavigating the federation however once the war started being the only federation asset in the region they were assigned the intel gathering mission
A noticeable continuity error is actually present in the episode, it's said that red squad have had radio silence for a year and are wearing those cadet uniforms, yet a year prior in the war when nog was still a cadet, he was wearing the old cadet uniform, not the new one as featured on red squad, did anyone else notice this? Also nog is made Lt commander which is 3 pips, 2 solid and 1 hollow and yet he only wears 1 solid and 1 hollow, which is Lt junior grade.
Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win. Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets. I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.
Okay that would make sense, but if i recall they believe that the Valiant was lost cause of this radio silence and if it was out of war they'd probably be out looking for them, but in war where any lost ship is practically just another ship when they have a fleet, i doubt they'd send out messages for a ship that may or may not be MIA, i may be wrong so thats just something to think about. assuming they have the replicator patterns to create the new uniforms, i'd assume it'd be the same case as Voyager, for 4 years they were still using pre dominion war uniforms, despite knowing that Star fleet has updated their uniforms, but in that case they had limited replicator ability so they didn't and i argue that would be the case for red squad, and Valiant isn't a long range science vessel like Voyager, Defiant class is much smaller, and was damaged, so i doubt they'd waste power on a uniform change.
You have to remember that the captain of Red Squad was on pills, that was affecting his judgement and they were just kids, not adults with years of experience, they were also under a stressful situation, of course they were going to panic and not think as anyone else starfleet would, they were the top class in starfleet and when you have a captain who is under the influence of drugs, they were bound to follow his example. As for Nog he was graduated after 2 years not 4, there were bound to be lapses in his training and yes maybe he should have been punished but at the same time he didn't make the call, and there was no precedent for a actual Ensign in a situation where someone was made captain despite only being a cadet, so its unknown if he could just take command.
He wouldn't of been able to overpower the entire crew, Red Squad have basically gone rogue at this point and clearly beyond reason. He would have been far better served with his full access to Engineering to stall them on repairs and send an encoded transmission back to DS9 for help. Once the Sisko turned uo to save his son in the Pimp Hand it would have been over. In the end these idiots in Red Squad cost Star Fleet a valuable vessel and crewmen when Starfleet was at this point in a fight to the death against the Dominion and could spare neither!
Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win. Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets. I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.
Nog is an Ensign in Star Fleet, Red Squad have been given battlefield promotions to Captain and below, and even Nog was given a battlefield promotion to Commander as Engineer. A battlefield promotion won’t stand up once the kids get back home, they would all be reduced back to probably ensigns just for the experience they’ve acquired in the field, but the battlefield promotion would remain as valid ranks until then. Therefore, the captain is a captain, and outranks Nog, and Nog would be required to follow all lawful orders he is given.
I always had a lot of issues with this episode. The series of events leading to the cadets being in command of this ship should never have happened. Once the Instructor Captain died, the standing order should’ve been; “You’re responsible for getting your crew home safely, that’s your mission now.” Relayed by the computer. I think this actually was the case and the cadets disobeyed that order. It’s not stated how many non-cadet NCO’s were aboard, but had they a Chief or Senior Chief that NCO could’ve taken command. While Nog was a cadet on DS9, he had to follow O’Brians instructions. Had they replaced Jake with O’Brian, I think he would’ve been able to bring Red Squad up short.
I love netflix, after watching this, just queue up the Valiant episode and take it from there. Thank you Junkball for all your hard work. I don't know how you do it and get such seemingly random yet precise clips. No idea how you organize yourself, it is astounding.
I enjoyed this episode, but it's always been kind of astonishing that Starfleet would give one of its state-of-the-art warships to the Academy as a training vessel. And not just any type of ship: The Defiant Class was particularly finicky--overpowered and underbuilt. A very dangerous environment for students, even if they are the best of the best. It's much more plausible to give an old ship to cadets to train on, like the old Class J ship that nuked Captain Pike, or the Enterprise itself, which was an old, outdated ship by the time it was serving as a training vessel during the events of Wrath of Khan.
Should have been an Excelsior class (though those were constantly being retrofitted) or a more believable Nova class starship. It's just unfortunate though that this episode was made in 1998 whereas the USS Equinox that debuted on Voyager in 1999, which means the model probably wasn't made yet. The show could have pulled any number of old small ship designs from the TNG though that would have been more plausible, like the Miranda class (where Sisko was the Commander at Wolf-359) that dates all the way back from ST2: Wrath of Khan.
I watched this episode this morning and it was a sombre reminder of the dangers of blindly following a cult leader caught up in his own delusion of grandeur.
Concerning the command star symbol that's a part of the red squad logo - you said it hasn't been on screen since TOS, but I just noticed it verrrrrry small in the DS9 episode "Behind the Lines" that I just happened to be watching just now. It's on the back of a PADD Admiral Ross gives Sisko - as a part of a Starfleet logo (the round one that looks just like the new Space Force logo). I've never noticed logos on PADDs before just now, but I thought it was interesting.
Also in the new Trek movies Kirk not only gets better results but next movie has him getting a dose of humility, basically left to their own devices the cadets here (not just the Captain) let themselves fall into a feedback loop of "we can do anything" and I'm pretty sure didn't fully appreciate that they were in a war now...example not returning to base after their mission and trying to earn "extra credit" as it were despite the fact starfleet could have most certainly used another Defiant class back in it's main fleet and not out there being taken on a joy ride by a bunch of cadets.
When watching the episode, I saw it as teenagers being stupid. However, there was a review that pointed out the big weakness. The adults had made just as many stupid ambitious decisions, but with the fact that they were the main protagonists of a tv series, they were protected by plot armor.
You forgot to mention that Red Squad had already been mentioned in an earlier episode of DS9... Homefront/Paradise Lost. The helmsman of Valiant was actually featured in that episode (Riley Aldrin Shepard).
Great to have a new vid on your channel. You didn't mention that Red Squad was on a mission "to circumnavigate the Federation". Must have been a long school year! :-)
Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win. Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets. I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.
@@jameslevy8347 If they "ought to have known" better doesn't that imply that they DIDN'T know any better? And if they didn't know better, how can they be considered "evil", as that suggests a certain deliberateness of malicious intent?
I remember at the end of the episode, Jake telling Nog that his father was a much better commander than the guy on the Valiant. Then I remember in the very next season, his father getting the Defiant blown to bits while sitting around helplessly.
The episode has a serial killer vibe to it. Only one of the original crew survives and I'm sure she's had enough and goes home. Also, that battleship! It's huge! "Look at the size of that thing"
This episode was a cautionary tale about why you should not give kids leadership roles (like making them admins on discord servers). They are full of kid drama and will spaz out. That "red leader" kid was so drunk with power that he was beyond reason at this point. Nog should have phasered his ass and forcefully taken command of the Valiant to bring it back to DS9.
Actually the first JJ trek movie was closer to Best of Both Worlds since the Enterprise was chasing after an ominous doom ship heading for Earth after it wrecked an entire fleet, you know THE EXACT SAME THING Riker did.
Did anyone else notice that when Nog was given a(n almost certainly illegitimate) field promotion to "Lt Commander", his pips indicate Lieutenant Junior Grade?
I loved THIS episode- the blonde cutie leads a briefing about how they all can rickroll an enemy ship- "targeting this will turn their hull into wet pasta!" I love her and the Valient was totally badass for even thinking they could take that giant ship down! XD
Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win. Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets. I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.
James I wouldn't worry about it. Red Squad was one of the cases in Star Trek where a bunch of teenagers running a ship ended realistically i.e. the problem solved itself.
I don't understand why Starfleet would give one of their best ships to a bunch of cadets in the middle of a war with only one senior officer there to train them. Why didn't they give them like a constellation class or something?
Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win. Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets. I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.
They originally weren't in the middle of a war. The Valiant's job was to circumnavigate the entire Federation before returning home. The cadets ran the ship while at least seven senior officers observed and graded them. This is what they were doing when the Dominion War suddenly broke out and the area of space they were in become occupied, trapping them behind enemy lines.
One of the things that wasn't covered was that in almost every battle they did, someone died, and the ship suffered moderate damage. The crew proceeded to give no fucks that they would nearly die from ships as big as or smaller than their own. Meanwhile the defiant class was supposed to perform better, much so like a tank than anything. Those who would have probably given a shit were probably thrown off the ship in a pod or something due to the angst leader's authoritah being challenged, much like lord of the flies.
Thank you so much, I was having a really awful day, my wife left me for my brother and my kids hate me. Plus, my house burned down and I lost my job. Someone stole my car. My dog died and I’m dying... none of that is true but thank you for the awesome video.
Not to mention nog is a regular Star fleet officer but that’s only the case because the first three months of dominion war were going so badly for the federation and Klingon allied fleets that they need every officer they could get to fill the ranks the casualties were so bad and morale was sinking so low that even the Klingons were starting to wonder if they can beat the dominion
Little bit of info: Go and watch the Paradise Lost 2-parter where Sisko is stationed on Earth. Cadet Waters is all smug over a sabatoge mission that red squad was on. Nog also wanted to get into Red Squad during those episodes. Also Robert Duncan McNeil was 'supposed' to play his TNG Cadet character but then they realized they would have to pay the writer of the "First Duty" episode for the rights to use that character, so they changed the name to Tom Paris and slightly altered the back story. but come on, in the first episode of Voyager listen to the parallels between the two and you can see the intention. "is it true? did you falsify reports?" "yeaa... but then the ghosts of those dead officers came back and taught me the true meaning of christmas.."
Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win. Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets. I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.
Red Squad is a cautionary tale of what happens when a ship has a crew comprised of Wesley Crushers.
But... Wesley was a self insert character of Gene Roddenberrys... surely the message isnt that when Gene Roddenberry gains total control of the "ship" his self reinforced ideologies lead to the downfall of the "ship"??? Thats deep man😯
AKA overindulged elitist pricks in way over their heads. how have they possibly survived that long with all the sane people (AKA the commanders) killed is beyond me.
I go out of my way to avoid this episode because it was hard to watch just blatant arrogance and pride coming from the cadets not understanding the consequences of there actions also since nog graduated from Starfleet Academy with that means he out ranks the cadets
Talia al Ghoul
I would say it is more like what happens when a ship is commanded by Kelvin Kirk.
@@JeanLucCaptain well, flaws aside I think it was obvious that they were very well trained and very competent at their jobs.
The story isnt about a bunch of people that suck, its about a bunch of people that are great but suffer some fatal flaw of character.
as an enlisted officer, Nog would have instantly outranked everyone aboard the Valiant, thus he could have taken command according to the chain of command.
He was an ensign, but they were cadets. He outranked them.
Yep, but they would never let him take command.
perhaps you meant commissioned officer?
no, enlisted.
If Nog was Commissioned, he would have been offered a rank. His Ensign rank was not offered, it was earned, therefore he was enlisted.@@morganb6717
@thesnesman5235 Considering this was during a time of war, it's safe to assume Nog was a Line Officer, so even as an Ensign, not assigned to the Valiant, he could have taken command. This is especially true considering there were no other commissioned officers aboard Valiant, just cadets. But yeah, they were all Lord of the Flies brain scrambled so the would have just thrown Nog in the Brig if he tried to take the Captain's chair...
Nog was outnumbered and around the same age as the cadets. With their delusional states of mind he likely couldn’t just take over. He lacked gravitas. They needed an adult to take charge.
The whole episode of "Valiant" can be summed up as, "Kids playing with things that aren't toys and hurting themselves."
This episode always drove me nuts! The concept isn't bad but at this point nog is an ensign and all of red squad are cadets. He he became the commanding officer the minute he walked on board.
I really like it when Star Trek confronts Starfleet with extreme circumstances and explores how this affects the people serving in it. It's a great tradition started in the original series and carried through all series so far. The valiant is likely my favorite example of this, especially with its focus on the youth of the cadets aboard -how quickly they could be shaped into people unrecognizable to the idealistic starfleet we sometimes see.
My take from the episode - Kids playing adults and get killed
Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win.
Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets.
I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.
@@MeyaRoseGirl Would have been the future Section 31 operatives
The Defiant would have succeeded on Valiant's AWOL mission. The Defiant had one advantage over the Valiant: The Sisko.
They also had a senior crew in charge. Sisko wouldnt risk his crew on a gamble like that. The mission was to observe the dominion ship that was twice the size of a galaxy class. It was not to destory it. Multiple times in the series sisko becomes mentally not capable of captaining the ship. That when dax, worf, or Kira take over for him.
It's called a joke.
And a cloaking device
I think Jake said that even Sisko wouldn't have risked such a run at the battlecruiser, especially as there was no order or mission to do that in the first place, just to gather intelligence (and the destruction of the Valiant lost most of that information along with it).
Also, another thing that the Defiant prototype had was ablative armour. It is possible that the Valiant had it too, but other episodes hint that this is a rather rare addition, since the captain of the USS Lakota was unaware of this secondary line of defence.
The Defiant was also enhanced with plot armor. Except that one time...
Incorrect about mission parameters. They were training when war kicked off. Starfleet sent new orders and the fake captain decided to take the mission instead of returning after officers were killed.
He also failed to relay that information to Starfleet, which would have ordered the Valiant home had they known that all of the officers on board were dead. Cadet Fuck Face lied in order to maintain his position as captain, and all of his fellow cadets died for it.
Pickard Thought it and I agree, an "Elite" squad of Cadets is not a good idea
Yup
Nokay.
Accroding to starfleet protical why full ensign nog not asume direct command of the uss valiant one he was beamed on board? Last time i checked ensign still out ranks catets
True.
Cadet pillpopper was acting captain. That means on his ship he outranks everyone but an admiral.
I don't know the exact SF regulations...but I'm guessing Nog may outrank them, but he isn't in the chain of command. He's not their direct superior. And unofficially, I doubt they would listen to Nog if he tried anything. He doesn't have the support of the crew (outside of Jake). Plus, I wouldn't put it passed that crazy teenager Captain to throw Nog outside an airlock if Nog tried to forcibly take command, and just report that "Nog was killed in action". That captain was drunk off his own power. He kept coming up with reasons to stay in the field, and not return to Federation space.
TheBigExclusive
*That captain was drunk off his own power.*
And stimulants.
The crew was granted field Promotions, similar to how Wesley was granted a field promotion to full ensign.
Better question is around that Dorian character. WHY is she a "Chief Petty officer" when that is a non-commision rank? something that is obtained without going to Starfleet academy and becoming a commissioned officer - she is literally in Starfleet Academy!
The USS Valliant, a Defiant class ship crewed by a gang of Wesly Crushers.
Worse, by red shirts
"in the end, he was a bad Captain..."
To be fair, they were all bad. They all drank the same cool aid and they all died for it. The second in command was particularly stupid.
Red squad-the only time I inwardly cheer when a starfleet crew gets their asses handed to them
Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win.
Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets.
I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.
Red Squad is what happens when you tell a bunch of inexperienced cadets repeatedly how great they are until they lose any and all awareness of their fallibility.
They represent a massive failure on the part of Starfleet Academy, as one of the most important parts of being a Starfleet officer is knowing how to face failure.
I don't think these guys had ever faced the Kobyashi Maru test.
I think it's more about what happens when you factor in isolation and lack of adult supervision
New Junkball video? Is it Christmas?!
God I know right!? Its gonna be a great sunday
Yes, Yes it is Christmas!
With one of my favourite underrated youtubers in the comments of one of my other favourite underrated youtubers, it certainly feels like it.
No it is Christmas, Thanksgiving and my birthday on the same day. :)
No but today is
It is almost like the episode was a parody of the reboot movies.
Deep Space 9 was truly ahead of its time.
This is actually the second appearance of Red Squadron, the first being in DS9's two part Homefront episode. Nog a young cadet freshly arrived at the Academy, is enamored with Red Squad, and wants to join them. This might explain why he is so ready to join them, and isn't so keen on usurping command by trying to pull rank.
One of the members of Red Squad in this episode, was in the Homefront episode. In that episode, he confirms that they committed an act of sabotage against the Earth under orders from an Admiral, but he and the rest of Red Squad are mysteriously sent off on a top secret mission before he can testify to this before the President of the Federation.
Meaning, this episode is a sequel to Homefront, their mission and radio silence were a ruse enacted by the senior staff that died during their mission, and the deaths of all these cadets was nothing more than a coverup of a failed coup by Starfleet officers. Really makes watching the episode even more fun for me knowing this.
Immensely happy to see a new upload from you. You are easily among the absolute best Star Trek content creators.
So good to see you back man.
did you even watch the episode? 2 mins in and some glaring faults first they weren't in Cardassian space when the war started they were in Federation space but the sector was invaded on day 1 whilst they were in it and they found themselves behind enemy lines, also the original mission of the Valiant was a training cruise circumnavigating the federation however once the war started being the only federation asset in the region they were assigned the intel gathering mission
I would so love to see a uss reliant retrospective. It's definitely one of my faves
A noticeable continuity error is actually present in the episode, it's said that red squad have had radio silence for a year and are wearing those cadet uniforms, yet a year prior in the war when nog was still a cadet, he was wearing the old cadet uniform, not the new one as featured on red squad, did anyone else notice this?
Also nog is made Lt commander which is 3 pips, 2 solid and 1 hollow and yet he only wears 1 solid and 1 hollow, which is Lt junior grade.
Radio silence means not sending. Presumably they can still receive data like replicator patterns and other updates.
Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win.
Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets.
I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.
Okay that would make sense, but if i recall they believe that the Valiant was lost cause of this radio silence and if it was out of war they'd probably be out looking for them, but in war where any lost ship is practically just another ship when they have a fleet, i doubt they'd send out messages for a ship that may or may not be MIA, i may be wrong so thats just something to think about.
assuming they have the replicator patterns to create the new uniforms, i'd assume it'd be the same case as Voyager, for 4 years they were still using pre dominion war uniforms, despite knowing that Star fleet has updated their uniforms, but in that case they had limited replicator ability so they didn't and i argue that would be the case for red squad, and Valiant isn't a long range science vessel like Voyager, Defiant class is much smaller, and was damaged, so i doubt they'd waste power on a uniform change.
@@dca-Letsplay I agree. What do you think of what I said about what should have happened to Red Squad?
You have to remember that the captain of Red Squad was on pills, that was affecting his judgement and they were just kids, not adults with years of experience, they were also under a stressful situation, of course they were going to panic and not think as anyone else starfleet would, they were the top class in starfleet and when you have a captain who is under the influence of drugs, they were bound to follow his example.
As for Nog he was graduated after 2 years not 4, there were bound to be lapses in his training and yes maybe he should have been punished but at the same time he didn't make the call, and there was no precedent for a actual Ensign in a situation where someone was made captain despite only being a cadet, so its unknown if he could just take command.
Yes, really enjoyed this video. Always a lot of fun.
I never understood why Nog didn't pull rank, take command of Valiant, and take it back to Starfleet. Ensign > Cadets.
He wouldn't of been able to overpower the entire crew, Red Squad have basically gone rogue at this point and clearly beyond reason. He would have been far better served with his full access to Engineering to stall them on repairs and send an encoded transmission back to DS9 for help. Once the Sisko turned uo to save his son in the Pimp Hand it would have been over.
In the end these idiots in Red Squad cost Star Fleet a valuable vessel and crewmen when Starfleet was at this point in a fight to the death against the Dominion and could spare neither!
Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win.
Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets.
I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.
Nog is an Ensign in Star Fleet, Red Squad have been given battlefield promotions to Captain and below, and even Nog was given a battlefield promotion to Commander as Engineer.
A battlefield promotion won’t stand up once the kids get back home, they would all be reduced back to probably ensigns just for the experience they’ve acquired in the field, but the battlefield promotion would remain as valid ranks until then.
Therefore, the captain is a captain, and outranks Nog, and Nog would be required to follow all lawful orders he is given.
I am so excited to see a new video! But you already knew that.
Oh my god, I was SO WORRIED ABOUT YOU!!! (And I'm so happy to see you back in the game!) xoxo
I think he has a kid now. I'm very happy for him about that.
Oh, cool! That's awesome. And yeah, we can forgive him for being a good father. ;)
There is no excuse for not uploading videos. :))) (just kidding)
Junkball has returned! Welcome back man.
I always had a lot of issues with this episode. The series of events leading to the cadets being in command of this ship should never have happened.
Once the Instructor Captain died, the standing order should’ve been; “You’re responsible for getting your crew home safely, that’s your mission now.” Relayed by the computer. I think this actually was the case and the cadets disobeyed that order.
It’s not stated how many non-cadet NCO’s were aboard, but had they a Chief or Senior Chief that NCO could’ve taken command. While Nog was a cadet on DS9, he had to follow O’Brians instructions.
Had they replaced Jake with O’Brian, I think he would’ve been able to bring Red Squad up short.
Good lord, this channel is splendid
Glad you're back. These are some of the best Trek videos out there.
I love netflix, after watching this, just queue up the Valiant episode and take it from there. Thank you Junkball for all your hard work. I don't know how you do it and get such seemingly random yet precise clips. No idea how you organize yourself, it is astounding.
My pleasure.
So happy to see a new video. This is one of my favorite channels on TH-cam.
Great to have you back.
YES THANK YOU FOR COMING BACK!!!
You’re back AND with a Defiant-class video!!!
I’ve never clicked on a video this fast!
Yes this channel coming back makes me sooooooo happy!!!!
I enjoyed this episode, but it's always been kind of astonishing that Starfleet would give one of its state-of-the-art warships to the Academy as a training vessel. And not just any type of ship: The Defiant Class was particularly finicky--overpowered and underbuilt. A very dangerous environment for students, even if they are the best of the best. It's much more plausible to give an old ship to cadets to train on, like the old Class J ship that nuked Captain Pike, or the Enterprise itself, which was an old, outdated ship by the time it was serving as a training vessel during the events of Wrath of Khan.
Should have been an Excelsior class (though those were constantly being retrofitted) or a more believable Nova class starship. It's just unfortunate though that this episode was made in 1998 whereas the USS Equinox that debuted on Voyager in 1999, which means the model probably wasn't made yet. The show could have pulled any number of old small ship designs from the TNG though that would have been more plausible, like the Miranda class (where Sisko was the Commander at Wolf-359) that dates all the way back from ST2: Wrath of Khan.
Saw that episode yesterday; Just A bunch of kids who thought they could make a BIG splash out of the academy..
As always, so good to see another video from you, Junkball :) brightens my day.
Thanks Junkball, great to have you back mate!
One of the last true Trek channels.
Oh man, I am so glad you are posting again! Cheers!
FINALLY
I’m so happy you’re making videos again!
THE KING IS BACK BAYBEEEE
What always confused me was that upon coming aboard, Nog should have assumed command, since he was now the ranking officer onboard.
i think the dumbest thing about that episode was nog didnt slap those cadets down and take control of the ship as he was an actual officer
Yes! Worth the wait! Keep up the quality content!
Yay, new video! Please don’t leave us again...
I watched this episode this morning and it was a sombre reminder of the dangers of blindly following a cult leader caught up in his own delusion of grandeur.
Nice to see you back! Look forward to the next one!
Outstanding! Yet another top notch video.
The king is back! 😍
Great work, JM!
I quite liked how some of the LCARS displays were upside down (as in the background at 5.23)
Concerning the command star symbol that's a part of the red squad logo - you said it hasn't been on screen since TOS, but I just noticed it verrrrrry small in the DS9 episode "Behind the Lines" that I just happened to be watching just now. It's on the back of a PADD Admiral Ross gives Sisko - as a part of a Starfleet logo (the round one that looks just like the new Space Force logo). I've never noticed logos on PADDs before just now, but I thought it was interesting.
Also in the new Trek movies Kirk not only gets better results but next movie has him getting a dose of humility, basically left to their own devices the cadets here (not just the Captain) let themselves fall into a feedback loop of "we can do anything" and I'm pretty sure didn't fully appreciate that they were in a war now...example not returning to base after their mission and trying to earn "extra credit" as it were despite the fact starfleet could have most certainly used another Defiant class back in it's main fleet and not out there being taken on a joy ride by a bunch of cadets.
Nice video.
Huzzah you return!
When watching the episode, I saw it as teenagers being stupid. However, there was a review that pointed out the big weakness. The adults had made just as many stupid ambitious decisions, but with the fact that they were the main protagonists of a tv series, they were protected by plot armor.
Thank you. That Tom Paris thing pissed me off so much.
That wasn't Tom Paris. It was a different character, who happened to be played by Robert Duncan McNeil.
This is a pleasant surprise!
You forgot to mention that Red Squad had already been mentioned in an earlier episode of DS9... Homefront/Paradise Lost. The helmsman of Valiant was actually featured in that episode (Riley Aldrin Shepard).
Great to have a new vid on your channel.
You didn't mention that Red Squad was on a mission "to circumnavigate the Federation". Must have been a long school year! :-)
Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win.
Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets.
I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.
@@jameslevy8347 If they "ought to have known" better doesn't that imply that they DIDN'T know any better? And if they didn't know better, how can they be considered "evil", as that suggests a certain deliberateness of malicious intent?
I remember at the end of the episode, Jake telling Nog that his father was a much better commander than the guy on the Valiant. Then I remember in the very next season, his father getting the Defiant blown to bits while sitting around helplessly.
At least it was hit by a weapon nobody saw coming. I guess someone should have been keeping an eye on the Breen lol!
My first new Junkball since subscribing a while back! Yay!
You're back!!
The episode has a serial killer vibe to it. Only one of the original crew survives and I'm sure she's had enough and goes home. Also, that battleship! It's huge! "Look at the size of that thing"
It would have been interesting to have her character stay in the show .
This episode was a cautionary tale about why you should not give kids leadership roles (like making them admins on discord servers). They are full of kid drama and will spaz out. That "red leader" kid was so drunk with power that he was beyond reason at this point. Nog should have phasered his ass and forcefully taken command of the Valiant to bring it back to DS9.
I liked the ending when they all bit the dust.
Actually the first JJ trek movie was closer to Best of Both Worlds since the Enterprise was chasing after an ominous doom ship heading for Earth after it wrecked an entire fleet, you know THE EXACT SAME THING Riker did.
Did anyone else notice that when Nog was given a(n almost certainly illegitimate) field promotion to "Lt Commander", his pips indicate Lieutenant Junior Grade?
nog should have taken command. he was actually the highest ranked. he actually graduated the academy and had a rank and commission.
This is a welcome surprise.
I loved THIS episode- the blonde cutie leads a briefing about how they all can rickroll an enemy ship- "targeting this will turn their hull into wet pasta!" I love her and the Valient was totally badass for even thinking they could take that giant ship down! XD
You have been missed.
What is "Red Squadron"? Well, you remember Wesley Crusher? Imagine a whole crew of him...
I choose not to imagine that, sir.
Well, good. Turns out you don't have to, just watch that episode of DS9....
...if you dare.
Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win.
Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets.
I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.
James
I wouldn't worry about it. Red Squad was one of the cases in Star Trek where a bunch of teenagers running a ship ended realistically i.e. the problem solved itself.
The only episode in Star Trek where you want the other team to win.
I don't understand why Starfleet would give one of their best ships to a bunch of cadets in the middle of a war with only one senior officer there to train them. Why didn't they give them like a constellation class or something?
Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win.
Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets.
I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.
They originally weren't in the middle of a war. The Valiant's job was to circumnavigate the entire Federation before returning home. The cadets ran the ship while at least seven senior officers observed and graded them. This is what they were doing when the Dominion War suddenly broke out and the area of space they were in become occupied, trapping them behind enemy lines.
@Nacho no need to be rude. I've have stopped.
Aren't these the same wacko cadets who also helped that crazed admiral almost stage a coup?
@@SwordsmanMercenary yes they are
One of the things that wasn't covered was that in almost every battle they did, someone died, and the ship suffered moderate damage. The crew proceeded to give no fucks that they would nearly die from ships as big as or smaller than their own. Meanwhile the defiant class was supposed to perform better, much so like a tank than anything. Those who would have probably given a shit were probably thrown off the ship in a pod or something due to the angst leader's authoritah being challenged, much like lord of the flies.
Nog was the Sr Officer onboard. He should have taken command and order those kids back home..
Glad your back!
Yaaaaaaayyyy new videooo :D
Thank you so much, I was having a really awful day, my wife left me for my brother and my kids hate me. Plus, my house burned down and I lost my job. Someone stole my car. My dog died and I’m dying... none of that is true but thank you for the awesome video.
Did anyone really expect a crew entirely of red shirts to succeed or even survive??
That first officer got on my nerves so bad
Not to mention nog is a regular Star fleet officer but that’s only the case because the first three months of dominion war were going so badly for the federation and Klingon allied fleets that they need every officer they could get to fill the ranks the casualties were so bad and morale was sinking so low that even the Klingons were starting to wonder if they can beat the dominion
YES! Your back! HUZZAH!
You're back! YES!
Yes! He’s back!
Love you Junkball!!
Little bit of info: Go and watch the Paradise Lost 2-parter where Sisko is stationed on Earth. Cadet Waters is all smug over a sabatoge mission that red squad was on. Nog also wanted to get into Red Squad during those episodes.
Also Robert Duncan McNeil was 'supposed' to play his TNG Cadet character but then they realized they would have to pay the writer of the "First Duty" episode for the rights to use that character, so they changed the name to Tom Paris and slightly altered the back story. but come on, in the first episode of Voyager listen to the parallels between the two and you can see the intention. "is it true? did you falsify reports?" "yeaa... but then the ghosts of those dead officers came back and taught me the true meaning of christmas.."
Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win.
Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets.
I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.
Really good video
Let´s be honest, if the captain would be a young Kirk, the Valiant would be a hero ship and the mission succesful without negative consequences!
Of course the writers would probably also have the Dominion ship threatening a inhabited innocent planet to make the mission more heroic.
Kirk was brave not stupid and would have had an exit plan if the first plan did not work. Watters fell apart when the plan failed.
Hey man, love your videos. I love to see a video about the sonic showers shown in voyager. how do they work?
Keep a sharp eye in "Tears of the Prophets". The Defiant's nose still has the Valiant's registry.
It brought me a strange, sick sense of satisfaction when I watched Res Squad get wiped out. XD
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaay! Junkball is back!!!!!!!
Watters didn't want to go back to being a mere cadet.