DEV PLEASE IM BEGGING YOU for MORE pineapple upside down I WANT MORE!!!!! MORE PLEASE. NOW. NOW. NOW. NOW. Extended version make me happy!!!! At LEAST 4 minutes!!!!!???? NOW PLEASE. Thank you.
absolutely loved this video with your takes. it is SUPER okay imho to share music you like with friends, full stop. it's not like anyone will change the music industry by making sure no artists engage with the mainstream or compete within it. that's how we can build more streams within the mainstream, by getting in there! I totally agree with your analysis and reflection on the dagger line - forgot what i was watching for a second and thought i was watching a counseling vid. in a good way! keep it up lil frog
"artists need to start understanding their music isn't for them" what kind of capitalistic hellscape do we live in that people who consume art genuinely have this mentality
that got me so bad. art is so pure and tied to the artist, the only reason we'd even be able to see it is because they shared it w/ us. *shared,* not made.
I know right! I don't want to sound gatekeep-y myself here, but the members of Big Thief seem like such wonderful people. So in touch with their souls and the people and world around them. And I think they express that in their art so well! And then some fellow fans of them go and be so pettily furious about this and some of them saying such nasty things to the band?? I was just so caught off guard by the reaction.
@@VDL1 interesting, I don't spend much time on that app. The internet is unfortunately full of a lot of toxicity, but I wonder why TikTok seems to have such a concentration of just flat-out mean people like that. Just seems like such a lack of perspective and understanding from them.
WHAT UNIMAGINABLE?!!?!?...such inmature response, if it was the final version then it wouldn't be a demo..the haters really are lazy and can't find a good enough reason to hate
It's so wild that performing on late night shows went from "oh god my mom listens to this band in the car now, they aren't cool anymore" to this It takes SO much work to get on a stage that nice, streaming revenue is horrible and having to promote on TikTok seems like a nightmare >:( !!!!!!
@@SufjetkekThey are saying that performing on a late night show is generally something that teenagers wouldn't even care much about (if anything, it means that the band is 'too mainstream' now) to now being able to cause this level of controversy within this band's fan base. Additionally, while Tiktok allows artists to promote their music to large groups, when compared to playing on stage on a late night show, the atmosphere is terrible and streaming revenue often isn't good as being paid to play live on stage. In short, revenue from streaming is not as good or not as consistent, and tiktok appears like an awful environment for a musician to have to market their music on.
exactly. there have been Live or Demo versions of songs only available on youtube or soundcloud forever. thats literally the nature of music. each performance will be different
Exactly. There are a couple vids of King Princess singing "House Burn Down" and "Best Friend" live (like someone recorded it during a concert and uploaded it on YT) before they were officially released, and I was rlly dissapointed when they were released bc the originals had this deep beautiful melancholy that she's so good at, and the released version just don't. But I don't bitch about it, bc i can still to those vids (hopefully the YT channel never deletes them), and those aren't even demos, they're just recordings from concerts uploaded by a fan. No reason to throw a tantrum about it, esp if you have a whole demo.
@@idonotresidehere.5709 This example is a little different, but there is an amazing cover of a song from over 5 years ago and I'm so in love with the cover that I can't listen to the original. It looks like the cover artist took it down at some point, but there are still plenty of lyrics vids and stuff that people have put up over the years for that version. It's not often that something completely disappears online...
The fact that NO ONE EVER MENTIONS how absolutely strong the “You say you want to be alone and you want children, you wanna be with me and you wanna be with him” line in the studio version is, is actually a crime. Like it’s so good. It’s objectively a huge improvement
If I made music and this happened to me, I'd straight up tell the "fans" that they won't get the version they want. They don't get to dictate what I do. Musicians are not your servants. The amount of entitlement from that one person was literally nasty.
Not to mention, their entitledness is ruining things for the people who were just genuinely a little disappointed to hear that its a really different version.
And the funny thing too is the live version IS still up and people can go listen to that version all they want but they still choose to complain for now reason
It’s not the fans fault that the band had been pushing the demo version for months… that was all they could listen to. Don’t you think it’s “entitlement” for someone to change something last minute and expect everyone to be happy about it? You’re not entitled to a world without negative opinions. Honestly as someone who does make music, this seems so weird that Id bet they made these changes to get people to talk about the song again (knowing that people wouldn’t like it)
The demo feels more like a plea for help whereas the studio version feels more defiant and self-realized. I reckon the act of making the changes they made to the song reflect the feelings of evolution towards the relationship the song is about.
Agreed, I felt like the lyric changes both served a pretty clear purpose - removing ‘in a row’ and the fish/gills line actually does give some sense of finality and an ability to live without the relationship. My impression of it is just that the studio version reflects some actual closure and I really like that and I think it’s still very cathartic!
Thats what i feel too. The studio version feels much less cynical, much more mature. Less performative, more performance. (slightly, I like both versions :) )
@@zackshell995finality, thats the word i was looking for. that empty space where they know they wont be able to drag you back in again, that you REALLY ARE DONE. god i love it
I hate that comment about artists needing to cater to their fans. Imo, you get some of the worst art that way. It becomes the most diluted, bland, and unoriginal stuff with absolutely no passion behind it. To appeal to the largest number of people art needs to be pretty neutral. The best artists make at least some polarizing choices, because that's what happens when you try to innovate and push boundaries.
agreed but also..... the renaissance painters were kinda just catering to the catholic church and they managed to sneak some funny stuff in lmfao. my favorite example is the conspiracy theory that michelangelo hid the human brain in the sistine chapel painting! the scientific american blog has a great article going in depth on it, it's fascinating. good artists can cater to their fans, i cannot deny that. great artists can slip anything into anywhere while catering to their fans, i think thats completely irrelevant to this band though, just random adhd thots
just a beautiful quote from the article (idk if i can link it tbh but this should let you google it): " In two places in the masterpiece, Michelangelo left self portraits-both of them depicting himself in torture. He gave his own face to Saint Bartholomew’s body martyred by being skinned alive, and to the severed head of Holofernes, who was seduced and beheaded by Judith." wild stuff i love art history. again, pretty irrelevant tbh
Definitely and if there's anything that caters more to the rich and the elite it's making music for the sole purpose of it going viral/ making money. It's an absurd position to hold
Adrienne has been writing "unfinished lines" for a long time. It evokes a feeling of uncertainty but at the same time, your brain automatically finishes it perfectly.
Ooo that’s a good point! all the people who knew the original lyric would mentally fill in that blank; like seeing a still image from a viral video and you automatically hear the viral audio that went with it. If people weren’t so busy being dicks about it- it could become a bonding thing between fans and the band
Live versions of songs are ALWAYS different. That's what can be so fun about seeing bands live. The last time in a row is so good, but who's to say they wont be using those lyrics live. Ive been a big thief fan for years and their live stuff is always quite different from their recorded stuff. Thats a common part of being in the folk genre too.
it's so funny that i'm only hearing about them because of this 'drama', cause now i'm actually about to check them out. i have needed a new folk band in my life tbh and i love their voices and vibes.
as someone whos been listening to vampire empire since the beginning of this year i LOVE this version yes i miss the last time in a row line but the intensity and strength adrianne delivers at the end of the song is so amazing and moving. i love how raw and emotional it sounds
yeah!! personally I liked the live/original version better because of the flute part and I can’t get over the lines that were removed because they were some of my favs, but I still like and listen to the new version and definitely agree with what you said about Adrienne’s performance in it. I realize that if I like the original version better I can just… listen to one of the many clips on youtube. I get that it may be inconvenient in comparison to Spotify but I wish that other people like me would get that that is also an option.
im my opinion it literally changes the song, it's not a bad thing to say it sounds like shit. you can change stuff about songs just make it good! it's fucking bad 😭
I understand not wanting to listen on TH-cam itself, if you are out and you just want it to be in your playlist shuffle or something. But people can just download the video and add it as a file to their playlist! If the band wanted the revenue from that version of the song I'm sure they would release it. And I'm sure they'd much prefer people be content and download the song from TH-cam then to be throwing all of this bizarre backlash at them.
I just wish it was on spotify that’s all, I do like the studio version but it would be nice to be able to listen to the demo version whenever I’d like and add it to my playlists
As a musician, it’s scary to know how entitled people can be. That one person that claimed that the music isn’t for the musicians just hurt to see because I speak for many musicians when I say we use it to express ourselves. It partly makes me afraid to perform unreleased things since there’s always a chance something will change and with that, there’s a chance something like this can happen. I think we should just appreciate the emotion that went into the song and respect the band’s decision to make changes because it’s not our song to make.
it feels like a parallel argument to the “do musicians owe it to their audience to play their most popular songs/songs most people know live” discussion. if you don’t agree with what an artist is doing with their music (if it isn’t hurting anyone), you don’t have to support them! you can kindly advocate online for your opinion to be considered as an additional thing if you want, but ultimately you are not the one permanently tied to whatever choices they make and don’t get a major stake in decision making
honestly.... not to get too deep with it but i feel like these 'fans' are the same people who constantly shouted about how much they hated linkin park's newer work. until chester left us. and that makes me really really really angry. can't begin to express how upset i am about the loss of that man. i've always been more into early LP cause it just hit me the right way as a depressed teen lol, but i wasn't one of those people who was saying they simply sucked when they evolved. like the person above me said (lol love that screenname) i wish they'd been kinder about it. 'oh it's just not for me now' is completely acceptable to say. i 100% understand when someone just isn't into my art lol, but don't try to make me feel like i need to change. just go find art you appreciate and be kind to them. sry lol not directed at 'you'. u kno what i mean
Just ignore these losers. There are plenty of normal folks like me who don't participate in that terminally online cesspit of hate and instead prefer to judge art on its own terms. I feel like I speak for a lot of people when I say that we prefer that artists express themselves freely, since some of my most beloved works aren't catered to me specifically, and yet I find them extremely relatable. There's common humanity in all of us; you artists just do your thing.
fr man. I make music, and I love fans but c'mon now. Give a fuck what the fans say, I appreciate and listen to feedback, but end of the day any form of art is a reflection of the artist and what they wish to say. If someone claims they're a fan but they refuse to give the artist room to grow/create, then they aren't a fan. Just someone who likes a select few pieces of work.
To me it's giving different stages of grief, the live it sounds like she's at a completely different point and now the anger towards the situation has set in. Maybe she doesn't wanna include how desperate she made her feel or how many times she was wounded by the situation, "the last time " alone is so beautifully final. The live version is still out there and it's poetic to be able to have both available. It's so shit that people are so entitled to other people's art man. Just go listen to the live version. Hope you get 100k soon, you deserve it!
Yes! Wonderful observation! I think if anything it's just a treat that we have two different versions of the song. It shows just how true to themself Adrianne writes, to where the song can take different form just by it being played at a later date and their feelings on the subject have evolved.
very good point. i am not like a 'musician' lol i just write and play guitar to express myself, and the way i play certain songs i've written will change dramatically. most of the stuff i've written is about really personal stuff, so i could understand why a demo would feel different from a studio version. i love listening to live recordings of my favorite bands tho, like if i'm in that mood it's so fun to hear their different performances and how they interact with the crowd. so i just wouldn't mind if my fav song had a different studio vs live version lol
The tiktok about it only sounding awkward because you liked the original was so true. Having heard the studio version first, it flows so naturally while the live version sounds like shes rushing a "last timeINAROW" like its the "elemeno" part in the ABCs. I like the lyric for the irony but it was executed so awkwardly that taking it out for the studio version just seems to make sense versus keeping the line but changing the feel of the song for it to actually fit. The excited shouty nature of it also kinda sounds more like they're excited to get back with the guy than acknowledging a sad pattern, while the updated version keeps it to just breaking it off
as someone who’s never heard the song, it does feel weird sonically but also lyrically it doesn’t feel like it makes sense? the final version is less clunky in both respects in my opinion
“Last time in a row” has the same amount of syllables and delivered in the same way as “matches in the snow”, so to me personally it doesn’t sound rushed at all. I think that’s honestly the reason why as a person who was used to the demo version, that part in the studio version sounds kind of empty. Not even necessarily because of the lyrics themselves being gone but because of that similarity being gone
i understand that people are upset that a song they really connected with was changed. but the only thing that really bothers me is when the original version is taken down or scrubbed from the internet. they still have access to the version they loved even if it’s not an official release. i think the unfinished/demo/single version of a song and the finished/album version can coexist. you can voice your disappointment but there’s no reason to get angry at an artist/band and harass them. that’s not gonna get you what you want. there’s an ep version of the fog by the band overcoats that i loved so much and a few months later i realized it disappeared from spotify. i had been grieving the loss of that song for years but i literally just found out the ep version is available for purchase on bandcamp. honestly, i don’t like the album version of the fog, no matter how hard i’ve tried to get into it. but i’ve accepted it because i understand i don’t have any agency over what an artist chooses to do with their music. p.s. both versions of vampire empire are good!
Also. Another take. Some bands treat studio recordings more like another performance, rather that the definitive version of their song. In performances, bands change lyrics, leave stuff out, change instrumentals or add other stuff. It could have been an intentional change. They also could have been treating it like a performance and mixing it up for FUN. For FUN!
I’ve been a fan of Big Thief for awhile and saw them live back in February. Big Thief actually responded to all of this drama in a comment under their post about the studio version being released. They basically said that they use their music as a way to express their present emotions, and that they didn’t want to go into the studio and do the same thing that they did in the live version because it doesn’t represent how they felt about the contents of the song anymore. Even when I saw them live, you could tell that they are so authentic with their emotions which is really cool to see as a fan, since you get to see a new presentation of a song you’ve heard a million times on spotify already. I think both versions are SO GOOD because while they are basically the same song, you can see her growth overtime with how she feels about her lyrics and who the song was written about. i’m so happy u made a video about this topic bc people are being so silly willy about this whole thing… Also i’ve been loving your videos lately!! Keep up the awesome content‼️‼️
Also if you just take their Spotify listens and translate that to earnings that's 9000 dollars max. Oh yes, this insanely rich group that's making so much streaming money how dare they?
I'm a HUGE Big Thief fan, but I had no idea this was going on, kinda proud of myself for staying away from the toxic parts of social media. When I got the Deezer notification I was really happy, and I really liked the song... WHY ARE PEOPLE LIKE THIS?
OMG i didn't know about them before this video (trust me, i'm adding them to my playlists!) but this makes me think of other situations i've been in where i never heard the toxicity and hate against someone who didn't deserve it because i'm apparently following cool ppl lolol. i'm glad your feed is nice and clean! :) the power of manipulating the algogods to our benefit lol
i was really attached to the fish line, and not hearing it on the studio version made me a little sad, but not enough to dismiss the fact that the vocal delivery just felt more emotionally grungy and i wanted to cry (good tears)
I personally love the studio version, my thing for the haters: is if you don’t like it so much listen to the live version, idk what to tell you like… what happened to supporting your smaller bands, do ppl not do that anymore fr😭
from being in school for writing for 4 years i know exactly why they did the dagger thing. "in a row" can be reductive in POETRY, but LYRICALLY that is tasty and good imo. they slimmed down lyrics i think bc they treated the lyrics like poetry (not uncommon in songwriting!) for poignancy.
this is a really good take. I read the lyrics before listening to the song and I was glad they got rid of "in a row" when reading the lyrics because it doesn't make sense poetically, but its sounds so good when sung
Back in the day, this was called demoitis, when you fall in love with the unreleased version of the song. It's been around since at least the early internet days (probably older too).
damn, im not on TikTok and big thief has been a big part of my life since 2017, this honestly hurts a lot to see, never expected them to be getting dogged by ppl on TikTok :///
same, they are people and they pour their hearts into their music so to get such a negative reaction must be so disappointing, it makes me feel so sad for them.
This is why I’ll never advertise my music through TikTok…I don’t care how much potential exposure I could get, I do not want most of my fan base to come from that app. It reminds me of the Dana and Alden Trader Joe’s song where people on tiktok was making fun of his voice. The rest of his great music went unnoticed and his honestly unique voice was made into a joke based on that one little clip. Let artists do what they want with their music, they aren’t writing it just for you. I would lose my mind if one of my songs made it to tiktok.
The sad thing is they didn’t intentionally choose to advertise their music on tiktok all they did was start playing it live and someone else recorded it and put it on tiktok and it went viral. they didn’t ask for any of this :/
big thief is one of my favourite bands ever and they're all extremely talented, lenker's lyricism blows me away every time. seeing them get torn apart by people who aren't even fans just because they refused to do what everyone wants from them with their music is so heartbreaking. these people don't even know that they have even BETTER songs to offer. i hate tiktok.
I think the fact that the song is about doing everything you can to appease someone but when you give them something, they want something else, and then you feel bad for giving them the first thing, makes it funny how the audience is acting
I had an experience like this with Penelope Scott's "Dead Girls". The demo was absolutely amazing and I was really excited for it to come out. The full version sounded a lot more polished which I didn't really like, but she's the artist, it's up to her. And when I gave the full song another chance, I realized that it's not so bad at all. But I would never even think of insulting the song because I preferred the demo version, that's just crazy.
i think this is very poetic!!! the demo of the song being so loved and wanted vs. the final song being hated is beautiful to me. it parallels the song itself; being in love with someone and wanting them so badly, being in love with the idea of a relationship with them, adoring the “demo” of loving them. but, when you finally have them, it’s not at all what you wanted. it’s different and you hate it. there are things you adored and wanted before the relationship started, but now that you have what you want, it’s not the same. things are slightly different and it’s uncomfortable and you dislike it so much it’s heartbreaking. i don’t know if this whole thing was intentional, but it’s beautiful in its own right. it fits the message of the song perfectly.
saw this song live. the lyric changes were still there but its was one of my most beautiful moments I have experienced and, as well as people around me were crying. literally amazing and I don't know how people can hate the studio version.
First I just wanna say the fact you made a video about Big Thief has made me very very happy :) I love this song! I hadn't listened to the live version until the official release came out, and I like them both! I really don't see how anybody could be THIS upset with the official release, it still remains such a beautifully cathartic expression of love and frustration. While I think it's kind of sweet that fans listen closely and repeatedly enough to be attached to such specific details of the song, their reaction feels verryy bizarrely toxic and out of pocket. Big Thief put out a tweet saying that they record their studio versions essentially as a live performance. They like to just play the songs together in the same room and feel them out, let the song take whatever form it wants to. And I think that's exactly one of the reasons that makes Big Thief so wonderful! It wasn't like they were meticulously sitting down and thinking through every moment of the song and contemplating whether or not to keep or change certain elements. (not that there is anything wrong with that process either.) I genuinely think it would be strange if they were to fully recreate their live performance of the song with 1:1 accuracy. I completely understand their artistic process and how they ended up with the final version. And I think I would feel same way even if I did like the live version more. Also...anybody who likes the live version more can literally just TH-cam to mp3 the performance and add it as an offline file to their playlist...I don't see the need for all the hubbub.
THANK YOU!!! Thank you for talking about this weird gatekeeping culture!!! Maybe it’s my neurodivergency talking but music is close to a spiritual experience to me. Finding new songs brings me so much joy, and I HATE when people try to invalidate me if I find one through TikTok (especially if it’s the Designated Punching Bag Song Of The Month)! It gives me SEROTONIN!!! IT MAKES MY HEART GO YIPPEE!!! SHUSH!!!!!
What I find most interesting about the "song of the summer" trend, is how Pineapple upside down is trending charts, #1 on the spotify rap genre atm, top 10's for apple music, and deadass WON 3 AWARDS
I don’t have tiktok and went to go listen to both and I think it hardly sounds any different. And it reminds me of how I will go back and edit my poems. Sometimes you gotta get rid of good lines in order to create a better, more cohesive whole. Edit: Honestly if I decided to share one of my vulnerable emo ass poems with people and they acted like that, they ain’t getting nothing from me no more. An artist’s art first belongs to themself, imo.
i personally LOVE the new version!!!! I miss the old assets, but I think this song has so much more emotion when it comes to the chorus and i dont understand how people cant see that. It sounds ALOT angrier and I dig it honestly
This reminds me of Meet me at our spot by the anxiety, willow and Tyler cole. I heard the live version and fell in love. I went to Spotify to add the song to my playlist and it was so different that I couldn't feel the same vibe I had with the live version. Then people made them put the live version on Spotify and I was happy.
people are wild, like if u dont like the studio version then dont listen to it??? doesnt give u the right to start foaming at the mouth in anger bc its a little different
Big theif and Adrianne’s music is very personal to her experience and life nobody gets to dictate her art you don’t get to control anyone like that ever it makes my heart so full that her music has gotten so big and touched so many people but unfortunately this kind of wack criticism is inevitable good video about it tho :3
I think the reason they took out the words: "in a row." is because it is supposed to be a break from the rhyme scheme. It goes from the -o sound, oh oh. To: "for the last time", meaning change IS going to happen, but the funny part is that it goes back to words rhyming with -o again: snow, go, control. You could argue it's because you pair words that rhyme, but I like to think it's more so because you still have that lingering sensation after being betrayed, and that is what it is relating to. Also, -o can be heard as a sound someone makes when they get hurt, unless you're a thug like me, lol.
Really loving how much you’re focusing on music and live music lately. I don’t know much about the industry/process, so I like hearing your perspective as someone involved in that scene :-)
I’ll be honest I was disappointed with the studio version, but I’m also super thankful that they even released it and it’s growing on me! I view it as more of a sequel to the demo/sister song bc of the changes, I think I would appreciate a more straightforward take with the lyrics unchanged but that’s just the danger of releasing demos early I guess.
honestly i feel like that line changed just because it’s grammatically confusing lol at least to me so for clarity’s sake it was removed i’m guessing? reminds me of editing poetry, sometimes you really want to leave impactful words in but when a third party reads it and doesn’t understand the structure sometimes it’s better to trim the message to make it clearer. like to say “last time” followed by “in a row” is confusing because last time is singular but in a row implies plural? was it multiple last times or multiple knives or multiple run-ins etc it’s just quite confusing lol altho it evokes stronger emotion. never heard of these people so i’ll give the song a listen thanks for the coverage dev!!
The "i walked into your dagger for the last time in a row" is was my favorite line that had me hooked. The first time i ever listened to the song was by accident, it just came on my playlist and it was the demo version and i had no idea anything like that. But when i heard the official version and that line was missing i was pretty disappointed because i don't know what about it that really hits, but it hits so hard.
Ive seen this phenomenon referred to as Demoitis. Ive primary seen it happen to Radiohead a lot because they've sometimes waited decades between debuting a new song and actually releasing a studio version. True Love Waits, Lift, Videotape come to mind but there's seriously probably a dozen songs people get riled up about because "the original version was better". Also happens to Animal Collective all the time. Probably every band honestly but the more invested a fanbase is in taping shows/documenting everything the worse this phenomenon gets.
now that I think about it too this has happened with Big Thief before, with the title track of their last album. Dragon New Warm Mountain performed Live is a heavy, intense track whereas the studio one is acoustic, magical, very atmospheric.
Hi Dev and all the comment section lurkers! I enjoyed your video and for the most part agree with what you said. I did want to add some context and more recent information that you weren't able to include in your video; The song (from what I saw while this was all happening) was not originally teased by the band. Often artists will play new songs in their set live before they record them, and this was one of those songs. Big thief had been trialing Vampire Empire in their set before people even knew the song's name, and a video that a fan took at their Melbourne(?) show just happened to go viral. After that, the band kinda got on board with it because the song got alot of support, hence why they played it on the late night show and officially shared the name of the song. I think the lyric changes seem very intentional on singer and lyricist, Adrienne Lenker's part, and in my opinion, both versions are fantastic. The thing that I miss the most from the demo is the guitar tone, it's so much more rich and reminiscent of their first album. *** The more recent development in this situation has to do with Lenker's solo album, which released about a month ago. Her album has another recorded version of Vampire Empire, this time with the lyrics unchanged from the demo version, as well as a more joyful, acoustic instrumentation. I'm not sure what her reasoning was behind recording another version of the song, but it does feel like the story of Vampire Empire has come full circle, which I appreciate. You can listen to Adrienne's version here; th-cam.com/video/sEIF-Z9QInk/w-d-xo.html :)
I feel like taking out lines like the ones that they did - fast, not easy to enunciate, and rushed at the end of the line - is common and often done for ease of performance. The fish and gills line was REALLY fast! I would have a hard time doing that live and getting a breath in before the next one. The time gained by taking "in a row" out might be what the singer needs to be able to get through the next part with good breath support. To me, it's a reasonable change.
the bubbledbongwater take was WILD bro lmfaoo artists don’t make art for you, they make art for themselves, of course you can still enjoy their art and take inspiration from it that’s one of the best parts of art, but it’s still THEIR art, and they do with their art as they please. that argument kind of reminded me of the shredded banksy piece, i remember when that happened that people lost their fucking minds claiming that “they devalued their own art,” then we all saw the price skyrocket because it was such an interesting statement piece (it sold right before being shredded for $1.4 million and was sold again in 2021 for $25.4 mil)
Another point to make is, mists artists I’ve seen change up their songs a little bit for live performances. You can NEVER EVER expect an underground band to sound the same live as they do in studio recording 😭 that’s literally so dumb and shows how ONLINE people are
i didnt recognize this song until you mentioned the last time in a row line. i remember finding it super hard hitting. i think we should see ourselves as a cool group of ppl who got to experience the demo version and the suspense of waiting for the studio version to come out. some ppl just love finding issues in everything
It’s hard to get used to a song and hear it change. SZA has changed Good Days like 3 times at this point, and I keep having to go back to the original version
I just stumbled across Big Thief again and realized "oh wait I've heard this song before in a damned devlemons video 😳" and i NOW realized that you pitched it up for copyright reasons... When i watched this i literally thought "wait people go crazy for this? With the toddler voice?" but DAMN they sound good
Finally listened to Think About It off your EP… I’m absolutely obsessed! ❤️ Nightstand is my second favorite. Just wanted to thank you for making great music and down to earth videos! Appreciate you!
makes me think of the recent alex g fan entitlement too. some random guy going by "alex g online" started releasing all of alex g's unreleased discography on spotify- and presumably making money off of it- until it was taken down due to copyright strike. now all of alex g's socials are spammed with comments demanding he release all of the stuff that was put on spotiify without his permission. like why not just listen to the unreleased stuff on other platforms and let the guy have some artistic integrity damn
are we not gonna talk about how the vocal delivery informs the lyric change? "last time in a row" with a sad, forlorn vocal delivery signals the singer's anguish with going back and "last time" with a more frustrated delivery signals their resolution to make this the very last time. what a cool journey to send people on with your music, i actually really really like this
I found this song a month or two ago, not knowing the drama or the band. I love it honestly and I get missing the dagger line. I love the emotion so much and it instantly became one of my faves.
Probably the greatest piece of music I have ever heard in my entire life was the song Spud Infinity as played by Adrienne alone at a Big Thief concert and that song was not available for streaming for over a year later and when I saw it finally was and listened to it, I was slightly disappointed that it sounded so much different than the solo version I heard live. That being said... nothing can ever take away the experience Adrienne/Big Thief gave to me that night and I am very grateful. The dumbest thing about this is that people can still listen to the demo version of Vampire Empire whenever they want lol.
as a casual fan of big thief who'd only heard the studio version and doesn't use tiktok, seeing this video and tiktokers calling it a monstrosity is so bizarre that i actually got a good laugh out of it it's like i'm in the twilight zone. i'll admit that when i heard the "for the last time / matches in the snow" non-rhyme the first time without knowing about the lyric change, even i thought it sounded kind of awkward, but i really like this song, i've listened to it a ton.
10:54 HUH?! That is the worst one of all of them “artists need to start understanding *their* music isn’t *for them*” HELLO?! No?? The arrogance. It reminds me of entitled customers that scream “the customer is always right!”. You have the right to CHOOSE what to listen to music wise. You don’t have the right to scream and cry when a song isn’t how you exactly expected it to be. You can of course critic a song if you wish to, but that is subjective. The artist makes art that is probably quite personal, and instead of appreciating the work they put in you spit in their face and tell them they have no right to creative freedom and in fact, that they are making music solely to please their audience
DEV! I have a suggestion for a video, but i’m not demanding it or anything. I’d love to hear your thoughts on people only liking the visual aesthetics of bands, and the gate keeping of them. This would fit in a video about gatekeeping in general, but yeah. Like some metal heads hate people who like the band shirts but not the music. I can understand if they hate on the music but if they just don’t listen to it, it’s treated as bad to only like the visual aesthetics of metal bands even without hating on the music
One of my fav artists last album had a song that I listened to the leak of a lot before the release. some of the lyrics were changed, and I liked the older version better at first, until the album came out and I realized it fit in with other songs w the changed lyrics, So I like both versions equally, like I was just used to the initial one I heard but now I’ve listened to the final version way more times
The entitled reaction to Vampire Empire was literally delusionally insane. I was so taken back like yo you can just not listen. Anyway, the real musical feature the song is missing in the studio version is the flute part. It doesn’t need to be flute, but I do miss that line supporting the chords in the strings at some points. I like the last chorus way more in the studio version, so much impact.
The term you were describing is called "Demoitis." That usually happens to the artist themselves when they know the song isn't finished, but they've listened to the demo so many times during the course of making the song that the final version sounds wrong.
6:48 I think a lot of people liked the “last time in a row” better than just “last time” is because the first one implies that we (singer) promised that this is the last time they’re walking into it, even though they keep on doing so. I think it implies a sort of addiction to that person? Like saying yeah, this is the last time, each time we do it.
wait this is so crazy ive had this song stuck in my head for a few days now but i only vaguely remembered hearing it in tiktoks and i wasnt sure of the lyrics so i couldnt just google it or anything and then i started to watch this video and when you played a clip of the dagger part i realized it was the song and i can listen to it now because i know what it is now!!!!
ive been a huge fan of big thief for years and i completelyyyy agree with everything you said. i watched the demo version performance before when that was released and then of course the studio version on repeat as soon as it released, but i had no idea about this discourse on it. but i also don’t have tiktok so i guess that’s why but even on instagram i didn’t hear about it even though i keep up with them but maybe i just wasn’t paying attention. but i really love both versions on their own for different reasons. like you mentioned, i feel like the demo version was written and performed more during a time of sadness, but as months went by and the studio version was recorded, it was recorded during more of a time of frustration and sad anger which is why there’s a change in tone and delivery and the lyric changes. and i think understanding that in itself has a really beautifully sad message. also i really liked your little rant about what the different meanings might be and where adrianne’s headspace may have been throughout this. and i agree that ultimately the artist/s should do exactly what they want to do with their own art and don’t owe the listeners anything when it comes to their own craft. if you want to listen, great, if not, don’t. the artist should create for themselves, not give that away for the sake of fans. i think “fans” who are so upset about it aren’t really genuine fans honestly because of their lack of willingness to have a different perspective. honestly part of me hopes that they don’t put the demo version on streaming services out of spite so those who are upset will just have to get over themselves and choose to listen to it and appreciate it for what it is, or move on because it’s not for them. however, if they do put the demo on spotify, i’ll stream tf out of it, as with the studio version of course. i would have them on different playlists with different vibes because, like i said, the different versions evoke different emotions, which is, in my opinion, sort of the whole point. sorry for the rant i doubt anyone will read this but anyways big thief is awesome !!
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get your bag sis
you aren't a real TH-camr unless you've had a VPN sponsorship 👏
@@catinsured Damn it I'm not a real TH-camr now I guess
DEV PLEASE IM BEGGING YOU for MORE pineapple upside down I WANT MORE!!!!! MORE PLEASE. NOW. NOW. NOW. NOW. Extended version make me happy!!!! At LEAST 4 minutes!!!!!???? NOW PLEASE. Thank you.
absolutely loved this video with your takes. it is SUPER okay imho to share music you like with friends, full stop. it's not like anyone will change the music industry by making sure no artists engage with the mainstream or compete within it. that's how we can build more streams within the mainstream, by getting in there!
I totally agree with your analysis and reflection on the dagger line - forgot what i was watching for a second and thought i was watching a counseling vid. in a good way! keep it up lil frog
"artists need to start understanding their music isn't for them" what kind of capitalistic hellscape do we live in that people who consume art genuinely have this mentality
If I couldn’t make art for myself and myself only then I would have killed some one or myself
@@DeapSeaCowboyYES SAMEEEEEE.
that got me so bad. art is so pure and tied to the artist, the only reason we'd even be able to see it is because they shared it w/ us. *shared,* not made.
I feel that art is actually mostly for the artist 😊
the way they said protecting the rich and their privilege like this was some kind of politically progressive take 💀
worst part about this was realizing even a band like big thief can have an insanely entitled and obnoxious fanbase
I know right! I don't want to sound gatekeep-y myself here, but the members of Big Thief seem like such wonderful people. So in touch with their souls and the people and world around them. And I think they express that in their art so well! And then some fellow fans of them go and be so pettily furious about this and some of them saying such nasty things to the band?? I was just so caught off guard by the reaction.
id hedge my bets on the fact most of that response is tiktok users. this sentiment can be found in EVERY comment section on that app lmaoo
@@VDL1 interesting, I don't spend much time on that app. The internet is unfortunately full of a lot of toxicity, but I wonder why TikTok seems to have such a concentration of just flat-out mean people like that. Just seems like such a lack of perspective and understanding from them.
@@villagelanding TikTok is mostly kids and teenagers
indie bands always have THE most annoying fanbases lol.
What? A demo sounding different from the final version? That's so wild and totally not incredibly common
Plus demo versions get released all the time it's not the end of the world. I think people are only hating cuz it's the popular opinion rn
ikr its crazy how people forgot its a DEMO, ITS NOT GONNA SOUND COMPLETELY THE SAME 😭😭
WHAT UNIMAGINABLE?!!?!?...such inmature response, if it was the final version then it wouldn't be a demo..the haters really are lazy and can't find a good enough reason to hate
yeah i'm scared of change too but guys come on…
Me thinking of Diet Mountain Dew
They didn’t tease it on TikTok, they promoted their live performance at a late night show. They probably didn’t expect for it to blow up that much
It's so wild that performing on late night shows went from "oh god my mom listens to this band in the car now, they aren't cool anymore" to this
It takes SO much work to get on a stage that nice, streaming revenue is horrible and having to promote on TikTok seems like a nightmare >:( !!!!!!
@@radishfest I honestly have no idea what you mean
@@SufjetkekThey are saying that performing on a late night show is generally something that teenagers wouldn't even care much about (if anything, it means that the band is 'too mainstream' now) to now being able to cause this level of controversy within this band's fan base. Additionally, while Tiktok allows artists to promote their music to large groups, when compared to playing on stage on a late night show, the atmosphere is terrible and streaming revenue often isn't good as being paid to play live on stage.
In short, revenue from streaming is not as good or not as consistent, and tiktok appears like an awful environment for a musician to have to market their music on.
they kept posting the song after it went viral so yes they did
I think what's really annoying is like... the demo is still available to listen to even if it's not on spotify, this should be a two cakes situation
exactly. there have been Live or Demo versions of songs only available on youtube or soundcloud forever. thats literally the nature of music. each performance will be different
Exactly. There are a couple vids of King Princess singing "House Burn Down" and "Best Friend" live (like someone recorded it during a concert and uploaded it on YT) before they were officially released, and I was rlly dissapointed when they were released bc the originals had this deep beautiful melancholy that she's so good at, and the released version just don't. But I don't bitch about it, bc i can still to those vids (hopefully the YT channel never deletes them), and those aren't even demos, they're just recordings from concerts uploaded by a fan. No reason to throw a tantrum about it, esp if you have a whole demo.
@@idonotresidehere.5709 i mean shit you could rip it from yt and spotiify will play mp3s youve got saved if theyre that bothered
@@idonotresidehere.5709 This example is a little different, but there is an amazing cover of a song from over 5 years ago and I'm so in love with the cover that I can't listen to the original. It looks like the cover artist took it down at some point, but there are still plenty of lyrics vids and stuff that people have put up over the years for that version. It's not often that something completely disappears online...
@@idonotresidehere.5709 Thanks for the music recc lol 💕
The fact that NO ONE EVER MENTIONS how absolutely strong the “You say you want to be alone and you want children, you wanna be with me and you wanna be with him” line in the studio version is, is actually a crime. Like it’s so good. It’s objectively a huge improvement
The studio version is just better in general 🤷🏻♂️
ITS GIVES ME CHILLS EVERY SINGLE TIME. and when the singer says right after "you give me chills" like it enhances the feeling and ugh its perfect
NO LITERALLY ITS SO EMOTIONAL AND IT MAKES ME CRY ITS SO GOOD RAGHHHH
oh it’s SO fuckikg good
But the flute is completely gone and the Gill and row lines are gone too :(
If I made music and this happened to me, I'd straight up tell the "fans" that they won't get the version they want. They don't get to dictate what I do. Musicians are not your servants. The amount of entitlement from that one person was literally nasty.
Not to mention, their entitledness is ruining things for the people who were just genuinely a little disappointed to hear that its a really different version.
They did that exactly on their insta stories. I love big thief. I will die for them
@@TheCreature42069 good on them, thats the kind of energy you ought to have as an artist
And the funny thing too is the live version IS still up and people can go listen to that version all they want but they still choose to complain for now reason
It’s not the fans fault that the band had been pushing the demo version for months… that was all they could listen to.
Don’t you think it’s “entitlement” for someone to change something last minute and expect everyone to be happy about it? You’re not entitled to a world without negative opinions.
Honestly as someone who does make music, this seems so weird that Id bet they made these changes to get people to talk about the song again (knowing that people wouldn’t like it)
The demo feels more like a plea for help whereas the studio version feels more defiant and self-realized. I reckon the act of making the changes they made to the song reflect the feelings of evolution towards the relationship the song is about.
Agreed, I felt like the lyric changes both served a pretty clear purpose - removing ‘in a row’ and the fish/gills line actually does give some sense of finality and an ability to live without the relationship. My impression of it is just that the studio version reflects some actual closure and I really like that and I think it’s still very cathartic!
Thats what i feel too. The studio version feels much less cynical, much more mature. Less performative, more performance. (slightly, I like both versions :) )
@@zackshell995that’s true
@@zackshell995finality, thats the word i was looking for. that empty space where they know they wont be able to drag you back in again, that you REALLY ARE DONE. god i love it
I hate that comment about artists needing to cater to their fans. Imo, you get some of the worst art that way. It becomes the most diluted, bland, and unoriginal stuff with absolutely no passion behind it. To appeal to the largest number of people art needs to be pretty neutral.
The best artists make at least some polarizing choices, because that's what happens when you try to innovate and push boundaries.
This !
agreed but also..... the renaissance painters were kinda just catering to the catholic church and they managed to sneak some funny stuff in lmfao. my favorite example is the conspiracy theory that michelangelo hid the human brain in the sistine chapel painting! the scientific american blog has a great article going in depth on it, it's fascinating.
good artists can cater to their fans, i cannot deny that. great artists can slip anything into anywhere while catering to their fans, i think
thats completely irrelevant to this band though, just random adhd thots
just a beautiful quote from the article (idk if i can link it tbh but this should let you google it): " In two places in the masterpiece, Michelangelo left self portraits-both of them depicting himself in torture. He gave his own face to Saint Bartholomew’s body martyred by being skinned alive, and to the severed head of Holofernes, who was seduced and beheaded by Judith."
wild stuff i love art history. again, pretty irrelevant tbh
Definitely and if there's anything that caters more to the rich and the elite it's making music for the sole purpose of it going viral/ making money. It's an absurd position to hold
damien hirst
basically what i’m hearing is that tiktok is discovering “the demo version is better”. this has happened for ages
Dev proves that no youtubers should have a script and just make it up as they record the video
@Tara-ev1wqwhat what is this abt nick
@Tara-ev1wqjust randomly brings up Nick.
I wouldnt think that's a good idea for all youtubers
@Tara-ev1wqwhat
@Tara-ev1wqy?? elaborate???
Adrienne has been writing "unfinished lines" for a long time. It evokes a feeling of uncertainty but at the same time, your brain automatically finishes it perfectly.
Ooo that’s a good point! all the people who knew the original lyric would mentally fill in that blank; like seeing a still image from a viral video and you automatically hear the viral audio that went with it. If people weren’t so busy being dicks about it- it could become a bonding thing between fans and the band
People should just write their own songs if they want that much control over it
now you know they can't do that lmfao that's why they sit online and demand music from talented, underpaid people!
That would take effort
@@mightymeatymech oops but they wouldn’t like to hear that. apparently any artist who does something they don’t like is a rich and privileged monster.
@@pptenshi3900Which is insane because artists are SEVERELY unpaid.
Their criticism is valid, but they going too far
Live versions of songs are ALWAYS different. That's what can be so fun about seeing bands live. The last time in a row is so good, but who's to say they wont be using those lyrics live.
Ive been a big thief fan for years and their live stuff is always quite different from their recorded stuff. Thats a common part of being in the folk genre too.
it's so funny that i'm only hearing about them because of this 'drama', cause now i'm actually about to check them out. i have needed a new folk band in my life tbh and i love their voices and vibes.
as someone whos been listening to vampire empire since the beginning of this year i LOVE this version
yes i miss the last time in a row line but the intensity and strength adrianne delivers at the end of the song is so amazing and moving. i love how raw and emotional it sounds
@ville__you’ve left that same comment on this video 4 times get creative that’s not the serve u thought it was
yeah!! personally I liked the live/original version better because of the flute part and I can’t get over the lines that were removed because they were some of my favs, but I still like and listen to the new version and definitely agree with what you said about Adrienne’s performance in it. I realize that if I like the original version better I can just… listen to one of the many clips on youtube. I get that it may be inconvenient in comparison to Spotify but I wish that other people like me would get that that is also an option.
Oh wow a whole seven months lol
im my opinion it literally changes the song, it's not a bad thing to say it sounds like shit. you can change stuff about songs just make it good! it's fucking bad 😭
@@kaylacruel83honestly though what’s wrong with saying you don’t like a song? they drastically changed it so idk what they expected the feedback to be
a tiktok user making a tiktok saying "tiktok fan" in a derogatory way is so goofy to me. brother...you are also on the 'tok
Seriously bro 😭
I think they meant people who aren’t really fan but call themselves fan bc of a snippet they heared on TikTok eg laufey beabadoobee Lana del Rey
@@ForeverL0vingH3r i love laufeys stuff with all my heart😭❤
@@ForeverL0vingH3rso much people liked Lana before tiktok r u kidding me
Very "what were YOU doing at the devils sacrament" type beat
Do these people not realize that they can still listen to the version that they like on TH-cam?
I understand not wanting to listen on TH-cam itself, if you are out and you just want it to be in your playlist shuffle or something. But people can just download the video and add it as a file to their playlist! If the band wanted the revenue from that version of the song I'm sure they would release it. And I'm sure they'd much prefer people be content and download the song from TH-cam then to be throwing all of this bizarre backlash at them.
TH-cam music supremacy because I can listen to it like any other streaming service would be able to if it was actually released hahahaha
It's so easy to download too, it's just entitlement and laziness.
@@villagelandingare you talking about spotify?
I just wish it was on spotify that’s all, I do like the studio version but it would be nice to be able to listen to the demo version whenever I’d like and add it to my playlists
As a musician, it’s scary to know how entitled people can be. That one person that claimed that the music isn’t for the musicians just hurt to see because I speak for many musicians when I say we use it to express ourselves. It partly makes me afraid to perform unreleased things since there’s always a chance something will change and with that, there’s a chance something like this can happen. I think we should just appreciate the emotion that went into the song and respect the band’s decision to make changes because it’s not our song to make.
it feels like a parallel argument to the “do musicians owe it to their audience to play their most popular songs/songs most people know live” discussion. if you don’t agree with what an artist is doing with their music (if it isn’t hurting anyone), you don’t have to support them! you can kindly advocate online for your opinion to be considered as an additional thing if you want, but ultimately you are not the one permanently tied to whatever choices they make and don’t get a major stake in decision making
honestly.... not to get too deep with it but i feel like these 'fans' are the same people who constantly shouted about how much they hated linkin park's newer work. until chester left us. and that makes me really really really angry. can't begin to express how upset i am about the loss of that man.
i've always been more into early LP cause it just hit me the right way as a depressed teen lol, but i wasn't one of those people who was saying they simply sucked when they evolved. like the person above me said (lol love that screenname) i wish they'd been kinder about it. 'oh it's just not for me now' is completely acceptable to say. i 100% understand when someone just isn't into my art lol, but don't try to make me feel like i need to change. just go find art you appreciate and be kind to them.
sry lol not directed at 'you'. u kno what i mean
Just ignore these losers. There are plenty of normal folks like me who don't participate in that terminally online cesspit of hate and instead prefer to judge art on its own terms. I feel like I speak for a lot of people when I say that we prefer that artists express themselves freely, since some of my most beloved works aren't catered to me specifically, and yet I find them extremely relatable. There's common humanity in all of us; you artists just do your thing.
fr man. I make music, and I love fans but c'mon now. Give a fuck what the fans say, I appreciate and listen to feedback, but end of the day any form of art is a reflection of the artist and what they wish to say. If someone claims they're a fan but they refuse to give the artist room to grow/create, then they aren't a fan. Just someone who likes a select few pieces of work.
To me it's giving different stages of grief, the live it sounds like she's at a completely different point and now the anger towards the situation has set in. Maybe she doesn't wanna include how desperate she made her feel or how many times she was wounded by the situation, "the last time " alone is so beautifully final. The live version is still out there and it's poetic to be able to have both available. It's so shit that people are so entitled to other people's art man. Just go listen to the live version.
Hope you get 100k soon, you deserve it!
Yes! Wonderful observation! I think if anything it's just a treat that we have two different versions of the song. It shows just how true to themself Adrianne writes, to where the song can take different form just by it being played at a later date and their feelings on the subject have evolved.
Exactly!
very good point. i am not like a 'musician' lol i just write and play guitar to express myself, and the way i play certain songs i've written will change dramatically. most of the stuff i've written is about really personal stuff, so i could understand why a demo would feel different from a studio version.
i love listening to live recordings of my favorite bands tho, like if i'm in that mood it's so fun to hear their different performances and how they interact with the crowd. so i just wouldn't mind if my fav song had a different studio vs live version lol
Good point!
15:50 this is how I wish I could write essays for school
The tiktok about it only sounding awkward because you liked the original was so true. Having heard the studio version first, it flows so naturally while the live version sounds like shes rushing a "last timeINAROW" like its the "elemeno" part in the ABCs. I like the lyric for the irony but it was executed so awkwardly that taking it out for the studio version just seems to make sense versus keeping the line but changing the feel of the song for it to actually fit. The excited shouty nature of it also kinda sounds more like they're excited to get back with the guy than acknowledging a sad pattern, while the updated version keeps it to just breaking it off
as someone who’s never heard the song, it does feel weird sonically but also lyrically it doesn’t feel like it makes sense? the final version is less clunky in both respects in my opinion
That’s true probably why they made the change
“Last time in a row” has the same amount of syllables and delivered in the same way as “matches in the snow”, so to me personally it doesn’t sound rushed at all. I think that’s honestly the reason why as a person who was used to the demo version, that part in the studio version sounds kind of empty. Not even necessarily because of the lyrics themselves being gone but because of that similarity being gone
i understand that people are upset that a song they really connected with was changed. but the only thing that really bothers me is when the original version is taken down or scrubbed from the internet. they still have access to the version they loved even if it’s not an official release.
i think the unfinished/demo/single version of a song and the finished/album version can coexist. you can voice your disappointment but there’s no reason to get angry at an artist/band and harass them. that’s not gonna get you what you want.
there’s an ep version of the fog by the band overcoats that i loved so much and a few months later i realized it disappeared from spotify. i had been grieving the loss of that song for years but i literally just found out the ep version is available for purchase on bandcamp.
honestly, i don’t like the album version of the fog, no matter how hard i’ve tried to get into it. but i’ve accepted it because i understand i don’t have any agency over what an artist chooses to do with their music.
p.s. both versions of vampire empire are good!
Also. Another take. Some bands treat studio recordings more like another performance, rather that the definitive version of their song. In performances, bands change lyrics, leave stuff out, change instrumentals or add other stuff. It could have been an intentional change. They also could have been treating it like a performance and mixing it up for FUN. For FUN!
If you watch her interview with fantano this is the correct answer.
I’ve been a fan of Big Thief for awhile and saw them live back in February. Big Thief actually responded to all of this drama in a comment under their post about the studio version being released. They basically said that they use their music as a way to express their present emotions, and that they didn’t want to go into the studio and do the same thing that they did in the live version because it doesn’t represent how they felt about the contents of the song anymore. Even when I saw them live, you could tell that they are so authentic with their emotions which is really cool to see as a fan, since you get to see a new presentation of a song you’ve heard a million times on spotify already.
I think both versions are SO GOOD because while they are basically the same song, you can see her growth overtime with how she feels about her lyrics and who the song was written about.
i’m so happy u made a video about this topic bc people are being so silly willy about this whole thing… Also i’ve been loving your videos lately!! Keep up the awesome content‼️‼️
This is such a beautiful take I love it
I have this song liked on spotify without knowing any of the drama. Its a gorgeous song and it makes me sad that people are so deranged about it
Also if you just take their Spotify listens and translate that to earnings that's 9000 dollars max. Oh yes, this insanely rich group that's making so much streaming money how dare they?
I'm a HUGE Big Thief fan, but I had no idea this was going on, kinda proud of myself for staying away from the toxic parts of social media. When I got the Deezer notification I was really happy, and I really liked the song... WHY ARE PEOPLE LIKE THIS?
OMG i didn't know about them before this video (trust me, i'm adding them to my playlists!) but this makes me think of other situations i've been in where i never heard the toxicity and hate against someone who didn't deserve it because i'm apparently following cool ppl lolol. i'm glad your feed is nice and clean! :)
the power of manipulating the algogods to our benefit lol
People use Deezer?
@@youtubeuserdan4017 i do and I'm like a person
@@tchellyng Damn I deadass thought you were like a cat or something. Cool.
i was really attached to the fish line, and not hearing it on the studio version made me a little sad, but not enough to dismiss the fact that the vocal delivery just felt more emotionally grungy and i wanted to cry (good tears)
I personally love the studio version, my thing for the haters: is if you don’t like it so much listen to the live version, idk what to tell you like… what happened to supporting your smaller bands, do ppl not do that anymore fr😭
from being in school for writing for 4 years i know exactly why they did the dagger thing. "in a row" can be reductive in POETRY, but LYRICALLY that is tasty and good imo. they slimmed down lyrics i think bc they treated the lyrics like poetry (not uncommon in songwriting!) for poignancy.
this is a really good take. I read the lyrics before listening to the song and I was glad they got rid of "in a row" when reading the lyrics because it doesn't make sense poetically, but its sounds so good when sung
I was thinking exactly this, even in a novel the “in a row” part would have just been redundant/appeared clunky
It's super hard (as an English major) to treat music differently than English language.
@@aynDRAWSclose your eyes
Is this the song of the summer?
Is this the song of the summer?
Is this the song of the summer?
ur chinchilla is cute
Is this the song of the summer?
Is my goldfish's death the song of the summer?
Back in the day, this was called demoitis, when you fall in love with the unreleased version of the song. It's been around since at least the early internet days (probably older too).
damn, im not on TikTok and big thief has been a big part of my life since 2017, this honestly hurts a lot to see, never expected them to be getting dogged by ppl on TikTok :///
same, i haven't been a fan that long, but still :/
same, they are people and they pour their hearts into their music so to get such a negative reaction must be so disappointing, it makes me feel so sad for them.
This is why I’ll never advertise my music through TikTok…I don’t care how much potential exposure I could get, I do not want most of my fan base to come from that app. It reminds me of the Dana and Alden Trader Joe’s song where people on tiktok was making fun of his voice. The rest of his great music went unnoticed and his honestly unique voice was made into a joke based on that one little clip. Let artists do what they want with their music, they aren’t writing it just for you. I would lose my mind if one of my songs made it to tiktok.
The sad thing is they didn’t intentionally choose to advertise their music on tiktok all they did was start playing it live and someone else recorded it and put it on tiktok and it went viral. they didn’t ask for any of this :/
yes! artists need to make music for themselves first, it's up to us whether or not we enjoy or relate to it. music with no purpose is always so empty
The absolute AUDACITY to say that an artist's art isn't theirs!!
big thief is one of my favourite bands ever and they're all extremely talented, lenker's lyricism blows me away every time. seeing them get torn apart by people who aren't even fans just because they refused to do what everyone wants from them with their music is so heartbreaking. these people don't even know that they have even BETTER songs to offer. i hate tiktok.
I'm willing to bet that person who wrote the entire paragraph has not paid for any presales, tickets or merch.
I think the fact that the song is about doing everything you can to appease someone but when you give them something, they want something else, and then you feel bad for giving them the first thing, makes it funny how the audience is acting
I love Dev learning things live on camera
I had an experience like this with Penelope Scott's "Dead Girls". The demo was absolutely amazing and I was really excited for it to come out. The full version sounded a lot more polished which I didn't really like, but she's the artist, it's up to her. And when I gave the full song another chance, I realized that it's not so bad at all. But I would never even think of insulting the song because I preferred the demo version, that's just crazy.
Felt this way about her cigarette ahegao demo
agreed in regards to the American healthcare demo
i think this is very poetic!!! the demo of the song being so loved and wanted vs. the final song being hated is beautiful to me.
it parallels the song itself; being in love with someone and wanting them so badly, being in love with the idea of a relationship with them, adoring the “demo” of loving them. but, when you finally have them, it’s not at all what you wanted. it’s different and you hate it. there are things you adored and wanted before the relationship started, but now that you have what you want, it’s not the same. things are slightly different and it’s uncomfortable and you dislike it so much it’s heartbreaking.
i don’t know if this whole thing was intentional, but it’s beautiful in its own right. it fits the message of the song perfectly.
I love how Dev doesn’t even bother on logging off Nick’s TikTok to record her videos lol
are they roomies or something? Ik they are in a band together.
dev being excited about her own joke in the intro makes my soul happy
saw this song live. the lyric changes were still there but its was one of my most beautiful moments I have experienced and, as well as people around me were crying. literally amazing and I don't know how people can hate the studio version.
First I just wanna say the fact you made a video about Big Thief has made me very very happy :)
I love this song! I hadn't listened to the live version until the official release came out, and I like them both! I really don't see how anybody could be THIS upset with the official release, it still remains such a beautifully cathartic expression of love and frustration. While I think it's kind of sweet that fans listen closely and repeatedly enough to be attached to such specific details of the song, their reaction feels verryy bizarrely toxic and out of pocket.
Big Thief put out a tweet saying that they record their studio versions essentially as a live performance. They like to just play the songs together in the same room and feel them out, let the song take whatever form it wants to. And I think that's exactly one of the reasons that makes Big Thief so wonderful! It wasn't like they were meticulously sitting down and thinking through every moment of the song and contemplating whether or not to keep or change certain elements. (not that there is anything wrong with that process either.) I genuinely think it would be strange if they were to fully recreate their live performance of the song with 1:1 accuracy. I completely understand their artistic process and how they ended up with the final version. And I think I would feel same way even if I did like the live version more.
Also...anybody who likes the live version more can literally just TH-cam to mp3 the performance and add it as an offline file to their playlist...I don't see the need for all the hubbub.
This is COMPLETELY off topic but at 4:18 i was not expecting to see a homestuckie in this video like i was flabbergasted 😭
The fly 🪰 at 8:00 and Devs eyes tracking it as it flew like, "bro can you not" had me cackling 😂
Blink and you'll miss it sorta thing, I wonder how many folk caught it 😂
THANK YOU!!! Thank you for talking about this weird gatekeeping culture!!!
Maybe it’s my neurodivergency talking but music is close to a spiritual experience to me. Finding new songs brings me so much joy, and I HATE when people try to invalidate me if I find one through TikTok (especially if it’s the Designated Punching Bag Song Of The Month)! It gives me SEROTONIN!!! IT MAKES MY HEART GO YIPPEE!!! SHUSH!!!!!
What I find most interesting about the "song of the summer" trend, is how Pineapple upside down is trending charts, #1 on the spotify rap genre atm, top 10's for apple music, and deadass WON 3 AWARDS
I don’t have tiktok and went to go listen to both and I think it hardly sounds any different. And it reminds me of how I will go back and edit my poems. Sometimes you gotta get rid of good lines in order to create a better, more cohesive whole.
Edit: Honestly if I decided to share one of my vulnerable emo ass poems with people and they acted like that, they ain’t getting nothing from me no more. An artist’s art first belongs to themself, imo.
i personally LOVE the new version!!!! I miss the old assets, but I think this song has so much more emotion when it comes to the chorus and i dont understand how people cant see that. It sounds ALOT angrier and I dig it honestly
This reminds me of Meet me at our spot by the anxiety, willow and Tyler cole. I heard the live version and fell in love. I went to Spotify to add the song to my playlist and it was so different that I couldn't feel the same vibe I had with the live version. Then people made them put the live version on Spotify and I was happy.
people are wild, like if u dont like the studio version then dont listen to it??? doesnt give u the right to start foaming at the mouth in anger bc its a little different
Big theif and Adrianne’s music is very personal to her experience and life nobody gets to dictate her art you don’t get to control anyone like that ever it makes my heart so full that her music has gotten so big and touched so many people but unfortunately this kind of wack criticism is inevitable good video about it tho :3
Here’s my dumbass being a long time listener of both Adrianne Lenker and Big Thief and not realizing Adrianne is the front woman for Big Thief 🤡
I think the reason they took out the words: "in a row." is because it is supposed to be a break from the rhyme scheme. It goes from the -o sound, oh oh. To: "for the last time", meaning change IS going to happen, but the funny part is that it goes back to words rhyming with -o again: snow, go, control. You could argue it's because you pair words that rhyme, but I like to think it's more so because you still have that lingering sensation after being betrayed, and that is what it is relating to. Also, -o can be heard as a sound someone makes when they get hurt, unless you're a thug like me, lol.
Imma give this song a listen now. Thank you Limes.
Really loving how much you’re focusing on music and live music lately. I don’t know much about the industry/process, so I like hearing your perspective as someone involved in that scene :-)
I’ll be honest I was disappointed with the studio version, but I’m also super thankful that they even released it and it’s growing on me! I view it as more of a sequel to the demo/sister song bc of the changes, I think I would appreciate a more straightforward take with the lyrics unchanged but that’s just the danger of releasing demos early I guess.
B33 < NEPETA TYPING QUIRK IN THE THUMBNAIL?!?!? 4:18 TOO!!!
honestly i feel like that line changed just because it’s grammatically confusing lol at least to me so for clarity’s sake it was removed i’m guessing? reminds me of editing poetry, sometimes you really want to leave impactful words in but when a third party reads it and doesn’t understand the structure sometimes it’s better to trim the message to make it clearer. like to say “last time” followed by “in a row” is confusing because last time is singular but in a row implies plural? was it multiple last times or multiple knives or multiple run-ins etc it’s just quite confusing lol altho it evokes stronger emotion. never heard of these people so i’ll give the song a listen thanks for the coverage dev!!
homestuck typing quirk in thumbnail
The "i walked into your dagger for the last time in a row" is was my favorite line that had me hooked. The first time i ever listened to the song was by accident, it just came on my playlist and it was the demo version and i had no idea anything like that. But when i heard the official version and that line was missing i was pretty disappointed because i don't know what about it that really hits, but it hits so hard.
Ive seen this phenomenon referred to as Demoitis. Ive primary seen it happen to Radiohead a lot because they've sometimes waited decades between debuting a new song and actually releasing a studio version. True Love Waits, Lift, Videotape come to mind but there's seriously probably a dozen songs people get riled up about because "the original version was better". Also happens to Animal Collective all the time. Probably every band honestly but the more invested a fanbase is in taping shows/documenting everything the worse this phenomenon gets.
now that I think about it too this has happened with Big Thief before, with the title track of their last album. Dragon New Warm Mountain performed Live is a heavy, intense track whereas the studio one is acoustic, magical, very atmospheric.
Hi Dev and all the comment section lurkers! I enjoyed your video and for the most part agree with what you said.
I did want to add some context and more recent information that you weren't able to include in your video;
The song (from what I saw while this was all happening) was not originally teased by the band. Often artists will play new songs in their set live before they record them, and this was one of those songs.
Big thief had been trialing Vampire Empire in their set before people even knew the song's name, and a video that a fan took at their Melbourne(?) show just happened to go viral.
After that, the band kinda got on board with it because the song got alot of support, hence why they played it on the late night show and officially shared the name of the song.
I think the lyric changes seem very intentional on singer and lyricist, Adrienne Lenker's part, and in my opinion, both versions are fantastic. The thing that I miss the most from the demo is the guitar tone, it's so much more rich and reminiscent of their first album.
*** The more recent development in this situation has to do with Lenker's solo album, which released about a month ago.
Her album has another recorded version of Vampire Empire, this time with the lyrics unchanged from the demo version, as well as a more joyful, acoustic instrumentation.
I'm not sure what her reasoning was behind recording another version of the song, but it does feel like the story of Vampire Empire has come full circle, which I appreciate.
You can listen to Adrienne's version here; th-cam.com/video/sEIF-Z9QInk/w-d-xo.html :)
accidental homestuck in the thumbnail lets fucking gooo
You can’t fight the homestuck 💪💪💪
I feel like taking out lines like the ones that they did - fast, not easy to enunciate, and rushed at the end of the line - is common and often done for ease of performance. The fish and gills line was REALLY fast! I would have a hard time doing that live and getting a breath in before the next one. The time gained by taking "in a row" out might be what the singer needs to be able to get through the next part with good breath support. To me, it's a reasonable change.
the bubbledbongwater take was WILD bro lmfaoo
artists don’t make art for you, they make art for themselves, of course you can still enjoy their art and take inspiration from it that’s one of the best parts of art, but it’s still THEIR art, and they do with their art as they please. that argument kind of reminded me of the shredded banksy piece, i remember when that happened that people lost their fucking minds claiming that “they devalued their own art,” then we all saw the price skyrocket because it was such an interesting statement piece (it sold right before being shredded for $1.4 million and was sold again in 2021 for $25.4 mil)
Another point to make is, mists artists I’ve seen change up their songs a little bit for live performances. You can NEVER EVER expect an underground band to sound the same live as they do in studio recording 😭 that’s literally so dumb and shows how ONLINE people are
glad to see dev getting sponsors 👍
i didnt recognize this song until you mentioned the last time in a row line. i remember finding it super hard hitting. i think we should see ourselves as a cool group of ppl who got to experience the demo version and the suspense of waiting for the studio version to come out. some ppl just love finding issues in everything
It’s hard to get used to a song and hear it change. SZA has changed Good Days like 3 times at this point, and I keep having to go back to the original version
I just stumbled across Big Thief again and realized "oh wait I've heard this song before in a damned devlemons video 😳" and i NOW realized that you pitched it up for copyright reasons... When i watched this i literally thought "wait people go crazy for this? With the toddler voice?" but DAMN they sound good
im sorry but i say the thumbnail, and as a homestuck, i INSTANTLY recognized nepeta's typing quirk....
R E A L
Finally listened to Think About It off your EP… I’m absolutely obsessed! ❤️ Nightstand is my second favorite. Just wanted to thank you for making great music and down to earth videos! Appreciate you!
I'm feeling a bit polarized right now
*paloricsed
@@kingdingaling3376 *paleontological
*pathological
*paranormal
makes me think of the recent alex g fan entitlement too. some random guy going by "alex g online" started releasing all of alex g's unreleased discography on spotify- and presumably making money off of it- until it was taken down due to copyright strike. now all of alex g's socials are spammed with comments demanding he release all of the stuff that was put on spotiify without his permission. like why not just listen to the unreleased stuff on other platforms and let the guy have some artistic integrity damn
alex g fans are insufferable now LIKE WHY BE NORMAL. there were so many chronically obsessed fans on ig that are just so…. weird.
are we not gonna talk about how the vocal delivery informs the lyric change? "last time in a row" with a sad, forlorn vocal delivery signals the singer's anguish with going back and "last time" with a more frustrated delivery signals their resolution to make this the very last time. what a cool journey to send people on with your music, i actually really really like this
I found this song a month or two ago, not knowing the drama or the band. I love it honestly and I get missing the dagger line. I love the emotion so much and it instantly became one of my faves.
Probably the greatest piece of music I have ever heard in my entire life was the song Spud Infinity as played by Adrienne alone at a Big Thief concert and that song was not available for streaming for over a year later and when I saw it finally was and listened to it, I was slightly disappointed that it sounded so much different than the solo version I heard live. That being said... nothing can ever take away the experience Adrienne/Big Thief gave to me that night and I am very grateful. The dumbest thing about this is that people can still listen to the demo version of Vampire Empire whenever they want lol.
i was Not expecting to see a nepeta leijon homestuck roleplayer on dev lemons channel help
One of the videos used had someone using Nepeta's typing quirk (Homestuck character) and it threw me.
IVE BEEN SCROLLING IN THE COMMENTS TO SEE IF ANYONE CAUGHT THAT TOO
as a casual fan of big thief who'd only heard the studio version and doesn't use tiktok, seeing this video and tiktokers calling it a monstrosity is so bizarre that i actually got a good laugh out of it it's like i'm in the twilight zone. i'll admit that when i heard the "for the last time / matches in the snow" non-rhyme the first time without knowing about the lyric change, even i thought it sounded kind of awkward, but i really like this song, i've listened to it a ton.
as someone who has no interest in producing music, i love listening about “music topics” or drama, much love
10:54 HUH?! That is the worst one of all of them “artists need to start understanding *their* music isn’t *for them*”
HELLO?! No?? The arrogance. It reminds me of entitled customers that scream “the customer is always right!”. You have the right to CHOOSE what to listen to music wise. You don’t have the right to scream and cry when a song isn’t how you exactly expected it to be. You can of course critic a song if you wish to, but that is subjective. The artist makes art that is probably quite personal, and instead of appreciating the work they put in you spit in their face and tell them they have no right to creative freedom and in fact, that they are making music solely to please their audience
Bro u should def do more music analysis ur commentary on music is really good and thought out
DEV! I have a suggestion for a video, but i’m not demanding it or anything. I’d love to hear your thoughts on people only liking the visual aesthetics of bands, and the gate keeping of them. This would fit in a video about gatekeeping in general, but yeah. Like some metal heads hate people who like the band shirts but not the music. I can understand if they hate on the music but if they just don’t listen to it, it’s treated as bad to only like the visual aesthetics of metal bands even without hating on the music
One of my fav artists last album had a song that I listened to the leak of a lot before the release.
some of the lyrics were changed, and I liked the older version better at first, until the album came out and I realized it fit in with other songs w the changed lyrics,
So I like both versions equally, like I was just used to the initial one I heard but now I’ve listened to the final version way more times
omg this reminds me of gmfu because the naaaaaaa part in the beginning now sounds like na a a a a a and ppl are freaking out lmao
OMG HOMESTUCK IN THE THUMBNAIL NEPETA TYPING QUIRK
lmao i love how the thumbnail summoned the entire fandom
Omg!! A demo sounding different then the release?? Thats such a new thing and should totally be illegal!!! /j.
I acc love love love this song
THE PERSON IN THE THUMBNAIL WITH :33 < HAS NEPETA'S TYPING QUIRK
HOMESTUCK
I WAS SO SUPRISED SEEING IT
@@2000IQkilljoydetective REAL
the entire fandom revived just for this
@@striderstrife yes
i hope homestuck fans start flooding the comments
The entitled reaction to Vampire Empire was literally delusionally insane. I was so taken back like yo you can just not listen. Anyway, the real musical feature the song is missing in the studio version is the flute part. It doesn’t need to be flute, but I do miss that line supporting the chords in the strings at some points. I like the last chorus way more in the studio version, so much impact.
The term you were describing is called "Demoitis."
That usually happens to the artist themselves when they know the song isn't finished, but they've listened to the demo so many times during the course of making the song that the final version sounds wrong.
“for the last time in a row” makes no sense tho. like it literally means the same exact thing without it
Its really interesting to see fans get demo brain for a song. Weird times
6:48 I think a lot of people liked the “last time in a row” better than just “last time” is because the first one implies that we (singer) promised that this is the last time they’re walking into it, even though they keep on doing so. I think it implies a sort of addiction to that person? Like saying yeah, this is the last time, each time we do it.
Clicked send to soon- I think that feeling (the promising this is the last time) is something a lot of people relate to
wait this is so crazy ive had this song stuck in my head for a few days now but i only vaguely remembered hearing it in tiktoks and i wasnt sure of the lyrics so i couldnt just google it or anything and then i started to watch this video and when you played a clip of the dagger part i realized it was the song and i can listen to it now because i know what it is now!!!!
hahaha hahaha homestuck typing quirk in the thumbnail.
As someone who doesn’t have a TikTok and just listened to this song when it came out… I liked it! Going to listen to it again now!
ive been a huge fan of big thief for years and i completelyyyy agree with everything you said. i watched the demo version performance before when that was released and then of course the studio version on repeat as soon as it released, but i had no idea about this discourse on it. but i also don’t have tiktok so i guess that’s why but even on instagram i didn’t hear about it even though i keep up with them but maybe i just wasn’t paying attention. but i really love both versions on their own for different reasons. like you mentioned, i feel like the demo version was written and performed more during a time of sadness, but as months went by and the studio version was recorded, it was recorded during more of a time of frustration and sad anger which is why there’s a change in tone and delivery and the lyric changes. and i think understanding that in itself has a really beautifully sad message. also i really liked your little rant about what the different meanings might be and where adrianne’s headspace may have been throughout this. and i agree that ultimately the artist/s should do exactly what they want to do with their own art and don’t owe the listeners anything when it comes to their own craft. if you want to listen, great, if not, don’t. the artist should create for themselves, not give that away for the sake of fans. i think “fans” who are so upset about it aren’t really genuine fans honestly because of their lack of willingness to have a different perspective. honestly part of me hopes that they don’t put the demo version on streaming services out of spite so those who are upset will just have to get over themselves and choose to listen to it and appreciate it for what it is, or move on because it’s not for them. however, if they do put the demo on spotify, i’ll stream tf out of it, as with the studio version of course. i would have them on different playlists with different vibes because, like i said, the different versions evoke different emotions, which is, in my opinion, sort of the whole point. sorry for the rant i doubt anyone will read this but anyways big thief is awesome !!
HELP THE NEPETA TYPING QUIRK ON THE THUMBNAIL😭
I WAS LOOKING FOR A COMMENT THAT SAYS SMTH ABT THIS LMAO
@@ChaoticFeline HOA DID NO ONE EVEN NOTICE THIS😿😿