Occasional audio issues don't bother me, but this episode was constant mic feedback from banging on the table. And it seems to be getting worse! The microphone arms need to be attached to the table so the mic doesn't pick up every table bump. I enjoy the show, but the three hosts need to listen this episode to hear what they are doing to the audio quality!
And some shock mounts for the mics along with some discipline with the banging on the table. I really like Doug and this type of content, but the technical production stuff here is seriously lacking, and it makes it pretty difficult to listen to.
The tech guy for this podcast really needs to isolate those mics to stop them picking up 1,700 table bangs as all three of them bang the table the whole time.
When my friends and family are wondering about a new car, I just send them an old Jalopnik article titled "Parents, just buy the damn minivan." They don't, then they admit I was right soon after.
Shout out to Doug's audio crew - Look up the Shure microphone Elastic Suspension Shock Mount! Or get rid of the table because you'll never get Doug to stop hammering on it no matter how many times you scold him...
Exactly. I can’t drive stick yet but I really want to learn how, but that’s mostly due to my parents not owning manual cars and they want me in an auto for my first car
I’m a 36 year old enthusiast whose dad taught me to drive a stick at 19 and I never got the appeal. Oh sure, if all of your driving consisted of driving on twisty roads with no traffic and minimal stopping… sure, sign me up. Everyday driving in a suburb/city would not be fun, it’s not fun getting fast food cause you’re hitting the clutch 20x. There are plenty of automatic ‘enthusiast’ cars out there.
I only drive stick in my truck but won't do it in a car, and even then, stick is nice only when doing very slow speed maneuvers. I prefer the SMG in my BMW or the semi auto in my Can Am otherwise.
I would consider myself a car enthusiast, but I am not as into supercars or modifications. I know much more about boring, everyday cars. I watch a ton of car videos, but wouldn’t be able to point out every single super car from one another because I don’t see them everyday and I don’t watch videos about them. I like to learn more about how cars, engines, and transmissions work and I like watching car repair videos. I also like learning about the manufacturing process. I really enjoy driving cars and I prefer sedans and light weight vehicles, but I’m not a typical car enthusiast. I drive a 2008 Corolla and it is still fun for me and fits my budget. I appreciate its reliability and that it’s only 2500 pounds. I guess I just get excited about different things than other enthusiasts. I haven’t had the opportunity to drive a car that I have been seriously impressed with so I find value in cars that other people don’t. I’ve probably watched 4000+ hours of videos about cars, but just never typical car enthusiast videos. More engineering and mechanic videos as well as car reviews like Doug, Throttle House, and Automotive Press. I also watch mechanics like Car Care Nut and the Car Wizard.
This is so funny because this not only perfectly describes myself as well but also probably a lot of people. Obsessed with cars but drive a 150k mile Mazda CX-5 because it’s reliable and affordable and can only afford to save for a house in today’s crazy market but have the Porsche posters knowing that one day :)
I am the same way. Exotic cars don’t interest me a whole lot but I love the interesting rare versions of everyday cars. I currently daily drive a Lexus LS400 and have a 2005 Subaru Forester 2.5XT with a manual transmission and it’s fun that nobody really knows that it’s more special than the average forester. My dream car is a Lexus ISF. I enjoy working on my own cars and learning how mechanical things work
RT on macan’s being reliable. We bought a 2018 S two years ago and have done literally nothing but oil changes. It’s incredibly fun to drive, interior quality is 💯. We are obsessed
love the pod but a producer really needs to force doug to wear headphones so he can hear how his audio changes while he moves around (he could move the mic as he talks and remain just as animated!)
I think Doug is right about the Prius solving most people's car needs...yet no one seems to be buying it, lol. They buy a Corolla Cross, Camry, Rav4, or so many cars from other brands before even considering the new Prius.
It's funny, I had the realization today walking down the block of my neighborhood. I noticed how many people in my area either have a compact SUV or a crossover and it made me think about the evolution of the mainstream car, because it was sedans, then station wagons, then minivans, then large SUVs, then mid size SUVs and now the aforementioned compact SUV and crossover. It made we realize we're all just working out way back to regular cars, but with extra steps lol. Because crossovers are starting to get more and more popular, but a crossover is just a raised up car essentially. We'll we get back to sedan eventually or will the crossover just be the generic "car" now?
@@soilent9618 I think the "normal car" in the next 10 years or so will be small to mid-sized crossovers, i.e. essentially slightly taller hatchbacks. In North America, the typical vehicle will likely resemble cars like the Kia Niro/Toyota Corolla Cross on the small end, the Hyundai Ioniq 5/Tesla Model Y in the middle, and three-row models similar to the Grand Highlander or Kia EV9 for the smaller slice of people that need more room. I'm actually predicting that the larger trucks and SUVs, EV, hybrid, or ICE, will become more of a niche market than today. We are already beginning to see consumers, even if they want them, getting priced out of these larger and more expensive vehicles. But, yes...sadly, the traditional sedan appears to be very quickly dying. Non-luxury wagons have mostly been dead for years already. Going the long way back to hatchbacks in North America does seem to be very circular...
@@soilent9618 I think you're right...crossovers will be the generic car...albeit they will resemble hatchbacks more and more, as EVs, or even hybrids, will require more aerodynamics to achieve range. Look how much lower the Tesla Model Y or Hyundai Ioniq 5 are than similarly-sized ICE cars like the Toyota Rav4. Traditional non-luxury sedans are very quickly dying, but I think crossovers will simply become less and less distinct from the hatchbacks and wagons of yesteryear. I think fewer people will be able to afford or justify the mega trucks and SUVs that have become fairly popular among a significant slice of the middle class. They will likely become more of a niche for a subset of fairly wealthy folks. I predict that eventually, the middle-class consumer will economically be forced to downsize into the compact/mid-size, hatchback-like crossovers that are increasingly coming.
A model S with a working battery and drivetrain will always have a high scrap value in it's parts. A quick Ebay search shows 2013 Model S 60 kWh battery packs selling for 4-5k (completed items, not listings). With 85 kWh packs selling for 6k+.
You guys have to come to the same realization that I did when you speak of kids not knowing these iconic cars. They never grew up with them, they never bought car and driver magazine they scrolled thru car and drivers IG account. It’s a different time. The reality is that the Carrera GT and F50 are to kids what Chevy Novas and Ford Pintos were to us. Sure they are amazing in their own aspect but most of us who grew up in the 90s simply cared more about the McLaren F1 than we did a 60’s Corvette, it’s our job to educate and not belittle.
I really appreciate the conversation about depreciation. It’s great to hear your financial takes on cars with all of your experiences. It genuinely helps a lot!
You Tube Man n the UK has a '22 Porsche Taycan. It's already depreciated to the price where a replacement battery costs more. The depreciation is so bad he's been offered 18% of the original price for a buy out. Porsche dealers won't buy it back unless he takes it for a new EV - even then he's still underwater by 25% of trade in value.
I appreciate Doug's "competition" take, and I think it is completely accurate. I don't watch Doug because he gets a video out earlier than someone else. I watch every Doug video because he entertains me. I watch the people that entertain me and vice versa. I'm capable of watching multiple channels with similar content and enjoying them all.
Helping People Find the Right Car: I had the same idea about going to CarMax to compare a few cars, but the salesman said their policy is to not let anyone test drive more than a single car in a day. Non-negotiable. "I have 2 cars in mind, you have both on your lot, and I'm planning to buy a car this week, even today if I can test them both and find that I like one of them." Nope, sorry.
The GMA T25 was a concept to showcase, not the actual car, but the production process, which was meantto be very streamlined and cost effective. It was never meant to go on sale 😉
Just bought a 2020 model 3 46k miles from tesla used with the extra warranty from buying from telsa for 20,400 after the 4k tax credit an absolute steal and still has a good chunk of warranty left. I charge at home only spend about 3 cents per mile driving compared to the 13-15 cents/mile from my subaru. The fact i still have 4 1/2 years battery and 1 1/2 year basic warranty left on a car that costs 20k (and a nice car at that) is absolutely nuts
I am glad Mr. Demuro is so manganous to his fellow youtubers. I enjoy his content. For consumer advice I like Alex on Autos, as he gives very detailed information for someone who would actually be in the market for a car. Savage Geese also put out great and detailed videos. For pure fun Demuro and the Throttle House guys are great. For looking at classic cars, the Curious Car guy is not only very informative but an entertaining old crank after my own heart.
I starting watching you Doug when you got started and never looked back. great channel honest, simple and fun. Then Kennan came along and I love the guy. Alanis gettin' herself into trunks and I'm a full throttle fan , This is the first time I see Filippo (nice to meet you) and along the stuff you said today I have to completely agree about other channel hosts. I always watch throttle house which is amazing, Hoovies or some others like Schmee far way less but I really like Matt Watson with Car Wow so yeah.The GMA new car I think is something very different and will be important in the future. I really can'tg wait for you to review that and the New Pagani Utopia with its brand new engine made by Pagani and not by AMG. Keep with the good work fellas and the fun for us car enthusiast to have a good time. and as always... Much love from West Spain ❤
@@killurtv319C&B can afford a lot of egg foam and command strips. They don’t even need to fully cover the walls. Even hanging some tapestries would do wonders
Its funny because we still get the REAL NEW LC called here in colombia LC300 and the new “LC” for the US is also sold here but as the prado, FYI the LC300 are trading here for 150-200k usd
Doug, you should publish your top three favorite new and used cars in each segment. I presume that your new car recommendations would reflect the Doug Score chart but it'd be great to hear about the used car list.
I can't believe we've normalized the Lexus grilles. When they changed to the current design about 6 years ago I nearly busted a gut. It will never grow on me.
My dad was shopping for a late model LS a few years ago and I just couldn’t talk him into a slightly older model to avoid the grille, it’s a good looking car but the face ain’t it
as someone who is 23, whenever i have looked at cars in general over the past 5-6 years, the sell prices have ONLY risen for most of what i have seen. and i look at normal family cars that are common. i have just strictly been exposed to an era where cars have not depreciated
Y'all need to filter low frequencies on your mics. Anytime someone touches the table, it booms. That should be an easy fix. Or put shock mounts on the mics. Love this content, and please keep it up! Thanks!
"Depreciation" is such a financial term it shows how much the the Car World has morphed into the Car Market, where so many cars are bought for the sole purpose of sitting in a garage to become more expensive. Further understanding of car prices can be borrowed from the bond markets: "off the run" vs "on the run", "Marked to Market" vs "Held to Maturity". So any brand new electric car becomes "off the run" one month into ownership and if "marked to market" will display the depreciation horror stories we have seen lately. If you subscribe to the idea that the Value of the car is in the Use of it, you have to "hold it to maturity" of a decade or so, and realize its' value over time. Otherwise cars begin to mimic the art market, valued not for use or aesthetics, but as financial assets, and tax advantaged rolling sculpture.
Or maybe it’s called not being a fool about money. Maybe you’ve never heard financially responsible people discuss the financial aspect of care, which is absolutely massive.
@@yungrichnbroke5199 if people would be reasonable most popular vehicle would be minivan. Buying a car is "being a fool" anyway if you want to he that reasonable
Doug claims Luxury EV's depreciate a ton but then goes into how a Range R loses $180k in 3 years. Reality check: All car depreciate except for a select few that have scarcity. If Doug says he looks at "Total Cost of Ownership" then the Model Y today beats everything else out there, because you can get them new under $40k (after fed rebate), and Consumer Reports just rated Tesla lowest in maintenance costs over both 5 and 10 year timeframes. Add with how much cheaper electricity is than gas, there are good reasons why its the most popular car in the world. What is really funny to me is Doug doesn't dive into the real discussions of the actual reason EVs depreciate so much - besides being a newer technology that many people are irrationally scared of - 1) $7500 Government Rebate on New EVs instantly makes the used market much more depressed on prices after you drive off the lot and that fact always makes a sensational headline 2) Battery concerns because normal consumers don't know how to check or judge battery health so it "seems" like a risky buy to get used The key is on most EVs as long as the battery doesn't die you basically have near $0 in maintenance costs (just tires really) and if you can charge at home you drive around for a fraction of the fuel cost of a regular car. A $5k Nissan Leaf can save $2k a year on fuel and are way more fun to drive than a Corolla or Sentra.
As someone who works for a large dealership group and reviews deals all day, the bubble has popped for months now. 60% of all of the trade ins I've seen have been underwater by AT LEAST $6k. Most average $10k of negative equity.
@@plica06 it really depends on the dealership. Some seem to be holding on to car prices from a year ago when explaining the car you're buying. Then they'll proceed to show you current horribly depreciated values of your own vehicle for trade in.
I had the unicorn of Landcruiser...the diesels are the desirable models. The early 100's, but a 105, live axle front and rear...still used the 1HZ but with an Auto, on GXL form. So it was peak cruiser. With a stronger rebuilt engine and a Turbo added. It was a very rare vehicle. The 1HZ had 96kW without the turbo, it wasn't fast. Even with the turbo, but an Automatic Live Axle front and rear Automatic GXL, and all Landcruisers in Australia at that time came as 8 seaters... Then when the most desirable engine came along, it only was available with a Torsion Bar front end suspension...but I used it offroad (heavily). And the 1HZ engine was only second to the Nissan Patrol 4.2 Diesel...but you couldn't get that it in an Auto. But If I'd kept that car in immaculate condition, it would be worth massive amounts of money, but I had so much fun with it. Despite flooding it, denting and scratching it...where I could take it was worth it. But that was a very, very rare vehicle. The USA never got the 100 series with live axles front and rear and were only ever sold in Australia in base form. But now despite the torsion bar front suspension, (which is why I bought a Prado to replace it) because of the fuel tank size, and front struts, but it's rare to find a petrol/gas version because fuel is so cheap in the US...although I'm not going to complain, because Europe is off the charts. But here petrol is about AUD$2.00 per litre...at peak prices I put in close to $300 worth of diesel when I had the Prado, which is what the USA's "Landcruiser" is. So it is mildly amusing when people in the US whinge about fuel prices...even accounting for the worst exchange rate, you guys have it so easy...I wish I was paying the equivalent of $6 per 4 litres... that's cheap.
I've been a car enthusiast since I was a young child. I've never had lots of money to spend on vehicles but I always try to have something interesting to drive. My previous three cars have all been manual transmissions (1998 GLX VR6, 2004 RX-8, 2015 GTI). As my wife doesn't drive a manual transmission, it led me to look around for something different. I refuse to drive a crossover or SUV because I love the driving dynamics of a car. However, I love the practicality of larger vehicles. Enter the wagon. I ended up purchasing a 2017 E400 wagon and I couldn't be happier.
This!! I was so tempted to buy one but back when I was looking I couldn’t justify $40+k for a Corolla at the end of the day. Maybe sometime in the next few years.
GR Corolla, Type R, or Golf R. Normies don’t get spending $45k on a hatchback. GR-86, BRZ, Miata Club Sport. Small, expensive, low power, RWD cars don’t appeal to non drivers.
Did I hear a Saab 9-3 Viggen review is coming up?!? I think an episode on the best orphaned cars is due! Disclosure: I have owned 3 Viggen (each configuration). Currently have a 2000 Monte Carlo Yellow 5-dr in the garage. Love them!
It would be nice if the microphones could be isolated, so they don't pick up every hand being placed on the table as a low rumble, especially in headphones. Otherwise, I love this show.
Great episode! My critique is that you bought the wrong mic for Doug. Maybe a lapel mic as he moves around a ton and the Shure mic has a very focus polar pattern.
The discussion on depreciation was really amazing. As someone who grew up quite poor and lived paycheck to paycheck for years and was able to transition out of that life, I can say that car buying is VERY different now. The idea of "net worth" never entered my mind living paycheck to paycheck. What was in my account or how much my next check was going to be was my networth. It made it a lot easier to buy a new car and look at it in terms of monthly payments. You're working hard and not really getting ahead so the dopamine of buying a brand new mustang was great. Well fast forward 8 years and I understand that some cars add to your net worth. They are an asset with value that you can sell and recoup the cost at some point. This is a degree of financial literacy I wish was able to be taught to people but I believe you have to experience the change yourself. With that said, I could have sold my mustang for what I paid for it during covid and allowed my sentimental heart to decline that offer. Finances be damned lol
Interest rates are high, so demand is suppressed. After they have finished cutting bulk of the interest rates demand will increase again. That also depends on what FED decides is the neutral interest rate that keeps inflation at 2%
When it comes to depreciated EV's, I would think one of the main concerns would be the eventual battery replacement cost. Also, they seem to eat tires. Maybe someone could chime in, don't they also have suspension issues.
Just before Doug bought his 2013 200 series Land Cruiser, for the purpose of finding a great mountain SUV that wouldn't depreciate off of a cliff post-COVID hype prices, I'd settled on finding the best "low" mileage 06-07 Lexus LX 470 100 series I could find. Then his video comes out, and I almost second guessed my plan. Went through with it anyway, despite what he had to say about the safety features and towing advantages for the 200. (Didn't agree at all about styling - the 100 series is just a better looking truck than the 200 excluding the Heritage Edition.) Having a bulletproof SUV that looks sexy as hell with a good rack, sliders, Rock Warriors, and is still "young" at 105k miles, it's never felt like anything but the right decision.
I think the only real thing that separates an enthusiast from someone with a car is the ability to find joy in the little aspects of not just your own car, but in any car. If you don't lose your mind at the sight of a mint 1986 Pontiac Grand Prix, or find the story behind the E30 M3 delightful, maybe you're not there yet. But if I ask you what you like about your car and you have an answer that goes beyond its most face-value attributes, you're good in my book.
We got a newer Bentley Bentayga traded in recently at my dealer, called the local dealer to see if the recall had been completed or not, they said they had an estimate on repair from the previous week the customer declined...$30k for what was mostly basic maintenance. 😂 BUT they recall was completed. 🎉
EVs don’t bounce off a floor price due to the increasing cost of changing out their increasingly obsolete first gen batteries. The negative slope just becomes less negative.
Honestly, the depreciation cost was a game changer, and I'm working my way to getting into equity stable assets. I'm not there yet, but working towards it. Depreciation is by FAR the biggest cost you're eating on most modern things. I still kick myself when I think about passing on a CPO Porsche late 2020, because a newer, not CPO, BMW was better - I lucked out because of the pandemic, good timing, and not wanting to sell my BMW, so a sell in early 2021 paid off with a very low interest (2.5%) CPO Audi with low miles great options and I hardly use it. I do need to sell it soon, but I'm in the green, and don't need a car, I want it, I can sell it with almost no ramifications, and my payments are lower than a new lease, and my value drop isn't too bad
Another aspect of reliability is fixibility. The avg person has even less idea how to maintain or fix an ev, and the right to repair may never fully occur in many states.
The t.50 missed on the sound. Like Jason Cammisa said, the sound was to synthetic and needed to have the exhaust manifolds whacked with a hammer a few times to give it a more guttural sound
Counterpoint about depreciation. The opportunity cost of a $1.5 million car at 5% per year(risk free rate) is $75k, that's more than the depreciation on any range rover.
I think it's fair to say he was the stylist for the McLaren, anyone who likes how it looks should thank him, anyone who likes how it drives should thank GM. Peter Stevens also worked on a WRX refresh I think - or possibly just a Prodrive special edition or WRC car. Somewhere near the end of the original shape and before the bugeye version, anyway.
So. Story here about luxo car/suv depreciation. Bought a BN '23 SQ7 (ahem... which I tried to sell on C&Bs; but it didn't work out) and I was deep into my locker on NE. I needed to downgrade for various reasons, and fast. I went to Toyota, they laughed at me, I went to Honda, ditto, and ultimately landed back with Audi - same d'ler, actually, that sold me the SQ7. They gave me a fair'ish, I think, trade in offer, but I was still $7k under water. With some discounts, and Costco, I was able to get into a form of transportation. So yeah, the covid-era-equity that I had from my '20 Raptor and my '22 GX460, was ultimately burned by: '21 X3m, '22 GLC43 and the '23 SQ7. Fun's over, however.
The new Land Cruiser is the new version of the land cruiser Prado which was offered overseas and Lexus GX. It’s not a new version of the full size land cruiser.
A car enthusiast is somebody who thinks they’re exclusive from (and sometimes better than) other humans because they appreciate and obsess about some large object that some other group of people created.
Porsche can get away with leaving the Macan alone for so long because it’s Porsche. Porsche fans don’t WANT them to change the looks of their cars. Ever. In any way. Remember what happened when they changed the shape of the headlights on the 911?
Bought a new loaded Silverado cash in '20 when the idea was "nobody is buying new cars" and got crazy money for my trade. Still barely lost money 4 yrs later.
I live in Sweden. The least problem I have is finding a good car. Let me tell you something: 1) Volvos last forever 2) Volvos are very affordable at Swedish salaries 3) Every mechanic knows how to work on them over here 4) Tax, insurance etc. doesn't cost much 5) Volvos offer better ergonomics than any other make on the planet. I've driven a Volvo from Germany to Sweden and from Sweden to France. It felt like I'd been sitting on a comfortable sofa/couch for 15 minutes!
Hasn’t Chinese ownership and manufacturing changed most of that? I show you can only get truly Swedish made Volvo’s XC60, XC90, and the V90 Cross Country, all the rest made elsewhere.
Would really love to know how Doug buys/sells cars - are they all separate loans, or rolled up into a single loan, or purchased outright, or some other magic?
I think some cars like the CGT, Countach, or even F40 don’t attract as many enthusiasts anymore i think because of the price point it mainly attracts people who liked the car as kids but dont actually care for cars as a whole. They buy them because they know other people know how expensive it is, they also know they don’t have to drive it a lot. Imo anything over $200k starts to attract more non enthusiasts than actual enthusiasts. I also think that people who hate low hp cars or people who hate specific region cars US, EU, etc. arent actual enthusiasts
Some acoustic paneling would go a long way to help with the reverberation, for whatever that’s worth to you
Even some tapestries would do a lot
Doug needs to either, learn to stop banging on the table or mount the mics to a stand.
Occasional audio issues don't bother me, but this episode was constant mic feedback from banging on the table. And it seems to be getting worse! The microphone arms need to be attached to the table so the mic doesn't pick up every table bump. I enjoy the show, but the three hosts need to listen this episode to hear what they are doing to the audio quality!
We had a model x but dumped it for the ix50 and we are so happy!!!😊
And some shock mounts for the mics along with some discipline with the banging on the table.
I really like Doug and this type of content, but the technical production stuff here is seriously lacking, and it makes it pretty difficult to listen to.
The tech guy for this podcast really needs to isolate those mics to stop them picking up 1,700 table bangs as all three of them bang the table the whole time.
When my friends and family are wondering about a new car, I just send them an old Jalopnik article titled "Parents, just buy the damn minivan." They don't, then they admit I was right soon after.
Shout out to Doug's audio crew - Look up the Shure microphone Elastic Suspension Shock Mount!
Or get rid of the table because you'll never get Doug to stop hammering on it no matter how many times you scold him...
it's a podcast about cars, not asmr for sleep, you are complaining about a non issue
@@AK-gb9rp audio quality on a podcast isnt a non issue lol
I know a few enthusiasts who can’t drive stick. I don’t think it’s a deal breaker. They just haven’t learned yet.
Exactly. I can’t drive stick yet but I really want to learn how, but that’s mostly due to my parents not owning manual cars and they want me in an auto for my first car
@@GermanCarGuyMNMost parents do, but it’s easy to learn. The first week will suck, and then you’ll get better from there.
I’m a 36 year old enthusiast whose dad taught me to drive a stick at 19 and I never got the appeal. Oh sure, if all of your driving consisted of driving on twisty roads with no traffic and minimal stopping… sure, sign me up. Everyday driving in a suburb/city would not be fun, it’s not fun getting fast food cause you’re hitting the clutch 20x. There are plenty of automatic ‘enthusiast’ cars out there.
I only drive stick in my truck but won't do it in a car, and even then, stick is nice only when doing very slow speed maneuvers. I prefer the SMG in my BMW or the semi auto in my Can Am otherwise.
I would consider myself a car enthusiast, but I am not as into supercars or modifications. I know much more about boring, everyday cars. I watch a ton of car videos, but wouldn’t be able to point out every single super car from one another because I don’t see them everyday and I don’t watch videos about them. I like to learn more about how cars, engines, and transmissions work and I like watching car repair videos. I also like learning about the manufacturing process. I really enjoy driving cars and I prefer sedans and light weight vehicles, but I’m not a typical car enthusiast. I drive a 2008 Corolla and it is still fun for me and fits my budget. I appreciate its reliability and that it’s only 2500 pounds. I guess I just get excited about different things than other enthusiasts. I haven’t had the opportunity to drive a car that I have been seriously impressed with so I find value in cars that other people don’t. I’ve probably watched 4000+ hours of videos about cars, but just never typical car enthusiast videos. More engineering and mechanic videos as well as car reviews like Doug, Throttle House, and Automotive Press. I also watch mechanics like Car Care Nut and the Car Wizard.
This is so funny because this not only perfectly describes myself as well but also probably a lot of people. Obsessed with cars but drive a 150k mile Mazda CX-5 because it’s reliable and affordable and can only afford to save for a house in today’s crazy market but have the Porsche posters knowing that one day :)
Similar, I am familiar of some modifications, but only stuff that I could do myself.
I am the same way. Exotic cars don’t interest me a whole lot but I love the interesting rare versions of everyday cars. I currently daily drive a Lexus LS400 and have a 2005 Subaru Forester 2.5XT with a manual transmission and it’s fun that nobody really knows that it’s more special than the average forester. My dream car is a Lexus ISF. I enjoy working on my own cars and learning how mechanical things work
RT on macan’s being reliable. We bought a 2018 S two years ago and have done literally nothing but oil changes. It’s incredibly fun to drive, interior quality is 💯. We are obsessed
Gotta love Doug. If he's gonna do a car podcast he's gonna do it in a garage. Acoustics be damned!
Doug is the type of guy to have his Mac dock at the maximum size
love the pod but a producer really needs to force doug to wear headphones so he can hear how his audio changes while he moves around (he could move the mic as he talks and remain just as animated!)
its fine wdym
Dude it’s fine. People are getting way too picky
I think Doug is right about the Prius solving most people's car needs...yet no one seems to be buying it, lol. They buy a Corolla Cross, Camry, Rav4, or so many cars from other brands before even considering the new Prius.
It's funny, I had the realization today walking down the block of my neighborhood. I noticed how many people in my area either have a compact SUV or a crossover and it made me think about the evolution of the mainstream car, because it was sedans, then station wagons, then minivans, then large SUVs, then mid size SUVs and now the aforementioned compact SUV and crossover. It made we realize we're all just working out way back to regular cars, but with extra steps lol. Because crossovers are starting to get more and more popular, but a crossover is just a raised up car essentially. We'll we get back to sedan eventually or will the crossover just be the generic "car" now?
@@soilent9618 I think the "normal car" in the next 10 years or so will be small to mid-sized crossovers, i.e. essentially slightly taller hatchbacks. In North America, the typical vehicle will likely resemble cars like the Kia Niro/Toyota Corolla Cross on the small end, the Hyundai Ioniq 5/Tesla Model Y in the middle, and three-row models similar to the Grand Highlander or Kia EV9 for the smaller slice of people that need more room. I'm actually predicting that the larger trucks and SUVs, EV, hybrid, or ICE, will become more of a niche market than today. We are already beginning to see consumers, even if they want them, getting priced out of these larger and more expensive vehicles. But, yes...sadly, the traditional sedan appears to be very quickly dying. Non-luxury wagons have mostly been dead for years already. Going the long way back to hatchbacks in North America does seem to be very circular...
@@soilent9618 I think you're right...crossovers will be the generic car...albeit they will resemble hatchbacks more and more, as EVs, or even hybrids, will require more aerodynamics to achieve range. Look how much lower the Tesla Model Y or Hyundai Ioniq 5 are than similarly-sized ICE cars like the Toyota Rav4. Traditional non-luxury sedans are very quickly dying, but I think crossovers will simply become less and less distinct from the hatchbacks and wagons of yesteryear. I think fewer people will be able to afford or justify the mega trucks and SUVs that have become fairly popular among a significant slice of the middle class. They will likely become more of a niche for a subset of fairly wealthy folks. I predict that eventually, the middle-class consumer will economically be forced to downsize into the compact/mid-size, hatchback-like crossovers that are increasingly coming.
A model S with a working battery and drivetrain will always have a high scrap value in it's parts.
A quick Ebay search shows 2013 Model S 60 kWh battery packs selling for 4-5k (completed items, not listings). With 85 kWh packs selling for 6k+.
"I think there is a floor." I'm glad we have the professor here to give us insights like this.
You guys have to come to the same realization that I did when you speak of kids not knowing these iconic cars. They never grew up with them, they never bought car and driver magazine they scrolled thru car and drivers IG account. It’s a different time. The reality is that the Carrera GT and F50 are to kids what Chevy Novas and Ford Pintos were to us. Sure they are amazing in their own aspect but most of us who grew up in the 90s simply cared more about the McLaren F1 than we did a 60’s Corvette, it’s our job to educate and not belittle.
Doug knows that, he often said that in videos on main channel when talking about cars that might be worth a lot in the future
New enthusiast cars to me: Lotus Emira, any manual M car, manual CT5V/CT4V, Porsche 911 Sport Classic and S/T, 718 gt4 and boxster spyder,
MIATA!!!!
Alpine A110
MkV supra, nissan Z
Came here to defend buying my new M2 manual. Its an enthusiast car for sure.
Any sporty new wagon... e63 wagon
I really appreciate the conversation about depreciation. It’s great to hear your financial takes on cars with all of your experiences. It genuinely helps a lot!
Doug those Porsche service reminders all had the red Carrera on them. My 997 Turbo S had the same photo too.
6:32 for me the new Land cruiser is more a continuation of the FJ Cruiser. Would make more sense.
You Tube Man n the UK has a '22 Porsche Taycan. It's already depreciated to the price where a replacement battery costs more. The depreciation is so bad he's been offered 18% of the original price for a buy out. Porsche dealers won't buy it back unless he takes it for a new EV - even then he's still underwater by 25% of trade in value.
Im glad some people here are paying attention.
At this point, just keep the damn thing. Let it be
I appreciate Doug's "competition" take, and I think it is completely accurate. I don't watch Doug because he gets a video out earlier than someone else. I watch every Doug video because he entertains me. I watch the people that entertain me and vice versa. I'm capable of watching multiple channels with similar content and enjoying them all.
Helping People Find the Right Car:
I had the same idea about going to CarMax to compare a few cars, but the salesman said their policy is to not let anyone test drive more than a single car in a day. Non-negotiable. "I have 2 cars in mind, you have both on your lot, and I'm planning to buy a car this week, even today if I can test them both and find that I like one of them." Nope, sorry.
The GMA T25 was a concept to showcase, not the actual car, but the production process, which was meantto be very streamlined and cost effective.
It was never meant to go on sale 😉
Just bought a 2016 Cayenne S with 88k miles and its so amazing
I've been looking at 958 V8 Cayenne's, anything bad to look out for?
Just bought a 2020 model 3 46k miles from tesla used with the extra warranty from buying from telsa for 20,400 after the 4k tax credit an absolute steal and still has a good chunk of warranty left.
I charge at home only spend about 3 cents per mile driving compared to the 13-15 cents/mile from my subaru.
The fact i still have 4 1/2 years battery and 1 1/2 year basic warranty left on a car that costs 20k (and a nice car at that) is absolutely nuts
I am glad Mr. Demuro is so manganous to his fellow youtubers. I enjoy his content. For consumer advice I like Alex on Autos, as he gives very detailed information for someone who would actually be in the market for a car. Savage Geese also put out great and detailed videos. For pure fun Demuro and the Throttle House guys are great. For looking at classic cars, the Curious Car guy is not only very informative but an entertaining old crank after my own heart.
I starting watching you Doug when you got started and never looked back. great channel honest, simple and fun. Then Kennan came along and I love the guy. Alanis gettin' herself into trunks and I'm a full throttle fan , This is the first time I see Filippo (nice to meet you) and along the stuff you said today I have to completely agree about other channel hosts. I always watch throttle house which is amazing, Hoovies or some others like Schmee far way less but I really like Matt Watson with Car Wow so yeah.The GMA new car I think is something very different and will be important in the future. I really can'tg wait for you to review that and the New Pagani Utopia with its brand new engine made by Pagani and not by AMG. Keep with the good work fellas and the fun for us car enthusiast to have a good time. and as always... Much love from West Spain ❤
Doug, you ogre, solve the audio quality issues.
I'm going to watch Shrek after this 😂
They are in a concrete garage. Not much they can so there will be reverb… I can tell you’re not a sound design enthusiast 😉
They could stop bumping the table…at the very least.
@@killurtv319C&B can afford a lot of egg foam and command strips. They don’t even need to fully cover the walls. Even hanging some tapestries would do wonders
funniest comment yet
I'd like to see a collab with 2 polar opposites. Doug Demuro and "That Dude in Blue"
Man I’m too broke to be watching this video
Haha
Its funny because we still get the REAL NEW LC called here in colombia LC300 and the new “LC” for the US is also sold here but as the prado, FYI the LC300 are trading here for 150-200k usd
Doug, you should publish your top three favorite new and used cars in each segment. I presume that your new car recommendations would reflect the Doug Score chart but it'd be great to hear about the used car list.
2017 Cayenne Turbo is a killer deal!!! Love mine
These podcasts really put life and personality into the brand.
I can't believe we've normalized the Lexus grilles. When they changed to the current design about 6 years ago I nearly busted a gut. It will never grow on me.
My dad was shopping for a late model LS a few years ago and I just couldn’t talk him into a slightly older model to avoid the grille, it’s a good looking car but the face ain’t it
as someone who is 23, whenever i have looked at cars in general over the past 5-6 years, the sell prices have ONLY risen for most of what i have seen. and i look at normal family cars that are common. i have just strictly been exposed to an era where cars have not depreciated
Y'all need to filter low frequencies on your mics. Anytime someone touches the table, it booms. That should be an easy fix. Or put shock mounts on the mics. Love this content, and please keep it up! Thanks!
This has grand tour conversation street vibes. Really enjoying the car pods. Great work guys 👍👍👍
@agingwheels shout out alright!
Always happy to see other people appreciating him. One of my favorite youtubers
Absolutely. Would love to see him or some other car content creators on the podcast.
"Depreciation" is such a financial term it shows how much the the Car World has morphed into the Car Market, where so many cars are bought for the sole purpose of sitting in a garage to become more expensive. Further understanding of car prices can be borrowed from the bond markets: "off the run" vs "on the run", "Marked to Market" vs "Held to Maturity". So any brand new electric car becomes "off the run" one month into ownership and if "marked to market" will display the depreciation horror stories we have seen lately. If you subscribe to the idea that the Value of the car is in the Use of it, you have to "hold it to maturity" of a decade or so, and realize its' value over time. Otherwise cars begin to mimic the art market, valued not for use or aesthetics, but as financial assets, and tax advantaged rolling sculpture.
Or maybe it’s called not being a fool about money. Maybe you’ve never heard financially responsible people discuss the financial aspect of care, which is absolutely massive.
What are you talking about? Depreciation has always been a major topic in the automotive world.
He's also ignoring the opportunity cost of parking $1.5 million in a car. At the risk free rate that's $75k per year.
@@yungrichnbroke5199 if people would be reasonable most popular vehicle would be minivan.
Buying a car is "being a fool" anyway if you want to he that reasonable
"$9 car" 😂 Doug, you're hilarious 😊
Doug claims Luxury EV's depreciate a ton but then goes into how a Range R loses $180k in 3 years. Reality check: All car depreciate except for a select few that have scarcity.
If Doug says he looks at "Total Cost of Ownership" then the Model Y today beats everything else out there, because you can get them new under $40k (after fed rebate), and Consumer Reports just rated Tesla lowest in maintenance costs over both 5 and 10 year timeframes. Add with how much cheaper electricity is than gas, there are good reasons why its the most popular car in the world.
What is really funny to me is Doug doesn't dive into the real discussions of the actual reason EVs depreciate so much - besides being a newer technology that many people are irrationally scared of -
1) $7500 Government Rebate on New EVs instantly makes the used market much more depressed on prices after you drive off the lot and that fact always makes a sensational headline
2) Battery concerns because normal consumers don't know how to check or judge battery health so it "seems" like a risky buy to get used
The key is on most EVs as long as the battery doesn't die you basically have near $0 in maintenance costs (just tires really) and if you can charge at home you drive around for a fraction of the fuel cost of a regular car. A $5k Nissan Leaf can save $2k a year on fuel and are way more fun to drive than a Corolla or Sentra.
As someone who works for a large dealership group and reviews deals all day, the bubble has popped for months now. 60% of all of the trade ins I've seen have been underwater by AT LEAST $6k. Most average $10k of negative equity.
What about second hand car prices... Are they coming down?
@@plica06 it really depends on the dealership. Some seem to be holding on to car prices from a year ago when explaining the car you're buying. Then they'll proceed to show you current horribly depreciated values of your own vehicle for trade in.
I had the unicorn of Landcruiser...the diesels are the desirable models. The early 100's, but a 105, live axle front and rear...still used the 1HZ but with an Auto, on GXL form. So it was peak cruiser. With a stronger rebuilt engine and a Turbo added. It was a very rare vehicle. The 1HZ had 96kW without the turbo, it wasn't fast. Even with the turbo, but an Automatic Live Axle front and rear Automatic GXL, and all Landcruisers in Australia at that time came as 8 seaters...
Then when the most desirable engine came along, it only was available with a Torsion Bar front end suspension...but I used it offroad (heavily). And the 1HZ engine was only second to the Nissan Patrol 4.2 Diesel...but you couldn't get that it in an Auto. But If I'd kept that car in immaculate condition, it would be worth massive amounts of money, but I had so much fun with it. Despite flooding it, denting and scratching it...where I could take it was worth it. But that was a very, very rare vehicle. The USA never got the 100 series with live axles front and rear and were only ever sold in Australia in base form. But now despite the torsion bar front suspension, (which is why I bought a Prado to replace it) because of the fuel tank size, and front struts, but it's rare to find a petrol/gas version because fuel is so cheap in the US...although I'm not going to complain, because Europe is off the charts. But here petrol is about AUD$2.00 per litre...at peak prices I put in close to $300 worth of diesel when I had the Prado, which is what the USA's "Landcruiser" is. So it is mildly amusing when people in the US whinge about fuel prices...even accounting for the worst exchange rate, you guys have it so easy...I wish I was paying the equivalent of $6 per 4 litres... that's cheap.
I've been a car enthusiast since I was a young child. I've never had lots of money to spend on vehicles but I always try to have something interesting to drive. My previous three cars have all been manual transmissions (1998 GLX VR6, 2004 RX-8, 2015 GTI). As my wife doesn't drive a manual transmission, it led me to look around for something different. I refuse to drive a crossover or SUV because I love the driving dynamics of a car. However, I love the practicality of larger vehicles. Enter the wagon. I ended up purchasing a 2017 E400 wagon and I couldn't be happier.
New Enthusiast car that instantly comes to mind: The GR Corolla.
This!! I was so tempted to buy one but back when I was looking I couldn’t justify $40+k for a Corolla at the end of the day. Maybe sometime in the next few years.
I don't think these guys give much thought to modern affordable cars, or any Japanese and Korean cars, at all.
I was thinking the new z
GR Corolla, Type R, or Golf R. Normies don’t get spending $45k on a hatchback.
GR-86, BRZ, Miata Club Sport. Small, expensive, low power, RWD cars don’t appeal to non drivers.
GR corolla has replaced the STI for new enthusiast car, if you see an STI thats an enthusiast.
Did I hear a Saab 9-3 Viggen review is coming up?!? I think an episode on the best orphaned cars is due!
Disclosure: I have owned 3 Viggen (each configuration). Currently have a 2000 Monte Carlo Yellow 5-dr in the garage. Love them!
We need a 9-3 viggen review!
It would be nice if the microphones could be isolated, so they don't pick up every hand being placed on the table as a low rumble, especially in headphones. Otherwise, I love this show.
Great episode! My critique is that you bought the wrong mic for Doug. Maybe a lapel mic as he moves around a ton and the Shure mic has a very focus polar pattern.
Welcome to this echo
The discussion on depreciation was really amazing. As someone who grew up quite poor and lived paycheck to paycheck for years and was able to transition out of that life, I can say that car buying is VERY different now. The idea of "net worth" never entered my mind living paycheck to paycheck. What was in my account or how much my next check was going to be was my networth. It made it a lot easier to buy a new car and look at it in terms of monthly payments. You're working hard and not really getting ahead so the dopamine of buying a brand new mustang was great. Well fast forward 8 years and I understand that some cars add to your net worth. They are an asset with value that you can sell and recoup the cost at some point. This is a degree of financial literacy I wish was able to be taught to people but I believe you have to experience the change yourself. With that said, I could have sold my mustang for what I paid for it during covid and allowed my sentimental heart to decline that offer. Finances be damned lol
Interest rates are high, so demand is suppressed. After they have finished cutting bulk of the interest rates demand will increase again. That also depends on what FED decides is the neutral interest rate that keeps inflation at 2%
When it comes to depreciated EV's, I would think one of the main concerns would be the eventual battery replacement cost. Also, they seem to eat tires. Maybe someone could chime in, don't they also have suspension issues.
buying a pre owned EV sounds like a ticking time bomb to me. Im pretty comfortable with my 90s Fords
50:35: I still don't like the e60/e90 front end, but I do like the F and (gasp) even the G series. E36 and E46 are still my favorites.
The best Cayenne is a late 958.2 base/Platinum. CarPlay, the best interior with all physical controls, and VR6 intake noises.
I am a mild enthusiast and the spreadsheet car shopper. My car: Kia Niro Hybrid. Filippo = the true car guy here
Just before Doug bought his 2013 200 series Land Cruiser, for the purpose of finding a great mountain SUV that wouldn't depreciate off of a cliff post-COVID hype prices, I'd settled on finding the best "low" mileage 06-07 Lexus LX 470 100 series I could find. Then his video comes out, and I almost second guessed my plan.
Went through with it anyway, despite what he had to say about the safety features and towing advantages for the 200. (Didn't agree at all about styling - the 100 series is just a better looking truck than the 200 excluding the Heritage Edition.) Having a bulletproof SUV that looks sexy as hell with a good rack, sliders, Rock Warriors, and is still "young" at 105k miles, it's never felt like anything but the right decision.
Hey Doug. Hope you're having a good day or night. Could you maybe do a review on the Renault 5 E-Tech, or at least when it officially launches?
someone is banging the table, and i can't take it after about 2/3 of the way through lol. great podcast tho
Kennan is kinda bullying Filippo throughout this episode, like he’s really proud to know more about exotics than him…
New enthusiast cars: GMA T-50, Lotus Emira, any MANUAL high performance cars..
I think the only real thing that separates an enthusiast from someone with a car is the ability to find joy in the little aspects of not just your own car, but in any car.
If you don't lose your mind at the sight of a mint 1986 Pontiac Grand Prix, or find the story behind the E30 M3 delightful, maybe you're not there yet. But if I ask you what you like about your car and you have an answer that goes beyond its most face-value attributes, you're good in my book.
I like this podcast and the set
We got a newer Bentley Bentayga traded in recently at my dealer, called the local dealer to see if the recall had been completed or not, they said they had an estimate on repair from the previous week the customer declined...$30k for what was mostly basic maintenance. 😂 BUT they recall was completed. 🎉
I love the GTI. I am enthusiastic about that
Doug: Since I made 37 million dollars I’m just happy for everybody💀
@11:40 Chrysler did. 300, Dodge charger / Challenger, also Ram 1500 classic - a brand new 15 year old truck
They did replace the 200 series land cruiser, with the 300, and you get the lexus version of that
I had an "enthusiast" tell me my 300 couldn't have a V8 bc the v8s were only for charger and challenger
wait til he finds out about pre-90s family cars
EVs don’t bounce off a floor price due to the increasing cost of changing out their increasingly obsolete first gen batteries. The negative slope just becomes less negative.
FILIPPO NEEDS A QVALE MANGUSTA! 👀
The fact that the first Porsche Filippo was in was a Carrera GT is a wild statement and a flex lol
Here here for Filipo getting a Cayenne diesel. Let Doug review it too!
13:34 Toyota 4Runner 5th gen, Tesla Model S, Tesla Model X (getting up there), Volvo XC90 MK2, Porsche Cayenne 2nd gen….
Honestly, the depreciation cost was a game changer, and I'm working my way to getting into equity stable assets. I'm not there yet, but working towards it. Depreciation is by FAR the biggest cost you're eating on most modern things. I still kick myself when I think about passing on a CPO Porsche late 2020, because a newer, not CPO, BMW was better - I lucked out because of the pandemic, good timing, and not wanting to sell my BMW, so a sell in early 2021 paid off with a very low interest (2.5%) CPO Audi with low miles great options and I hardly use it. I do need to sell it soon, but I'm in the green, and don't need a car, I want it, I can sell it with almost no ramifications, and my payments are lower than a new lease, and my value drop isn't too bad
My three favorite nerds❤
Another aspect of reliability is fixibility. The avg person has even less idea how to maintain or fix an ev, and the right to repair may never fully occur in many states.
In Australia, the new Land Cruiser is branded as a 300 series
The t.50 missed on the sound. Like Jason Cammisa said, the sound was to synthetic and needed to have the exhaust manifolds whacked with a hammer a few times to give it a more guttural sound
I actually don’t think the audio is that bad, I just think people like to complain😅
Counterpoint about depreciation. The opportunity cost of a $1.5 million car at 5% per year(risk free rate) is $75k, that's more than the depreciation on any range rover.
Peter Stevens the F1, in addition to the 2nd bodystyle Lotus Esprit and my Lotus Elan M100. He also drew the Jaguar XJR15 I think.
I think it's fair to say he was the stylist for the McLaren, anyone who likes how it looks should thank him, anyone who likes how it drives should thank GM. Peter Stevens also worked on a WRX refresh I think - or possibly just a Prodrive special edition or WRC car. Somewhere near the end of the original shape and before the bugeye version, anyway.
There is someone at Finish Line that had a Puresangue a month ago. 👍🏼🏎️
This was a great episode
The new Land Cruiser in america is the same as Land Cruiser Prado outside of america. Thats why its the 250 series and smaller.
So. Story here about luxo car/suv depreciation. Bought a BN '23 SQ7 (ahem... which I tried to sell on C&Bs; but it didn't work out) and I was deep into my locker on NE. I needed to downgrade for various reasons, and fast. I went to Toyota, they laughed at me, I went to Honda, ditto, and ultimately landed back with Audi - same d'ler, actually, that sold me the SQ7. They gave me a fair'ish, I think, trade in offer, but I was still $7k under water. With some discounts, and Costco, I was able to get into a form of transportation. So yeah, the covid-era-equity that I had from my '20 Raptor and my '22 GX460, was ultimately burned by: '21 X3m, '22 GLC43 and the '23 SQ7.
Fun's over, however.
Doug: We got rid of the detailed scoring cause we got to be a little bit quicker.
Also Doug: Makes every podcast over an hour.
The new Land Cruiser is the new version of the land cruiser Prado which was offered overseas and Lexus GX. It’s not a new version of the full size land cruiser.
I once saw a E60 M5 in azure blue. damn it was gorgeous
A car enthusiast is somebody who thinks they’re exclusive from (and sometimes better than) other humans because they appreciate and obsess about some large object that some other group of people created.
Porsche can get away with leaving the Macan alone for so long because it’s Porsche. Porsche fans don’t WANT them to change the looks of their cars. Ever. In any way. Remember what happened when they changed the shape of the headlights on the 911?
Correct car recommendations
Non Enthusiast:2nd gen Crv
Enthusiast: 2nd gen Crv with 5spd manual.
Spacious, reliable, comfortable and K24 awd
Bought a new loaded Silverado cash in '20 when the idea was "nobody is buying new cars" and got crazy money for my trade. Still barely lost money 4 yrs later.
I miss the longer DougScore breakdowns. If someone is already 22 minutes into the video, an extra 2min won't hurt.
I live in Sweden. The least problem I have is finding a good car. Let me tell you something:
1) Volvos last forever
2) Volvos are very affordable at Swedish salaries
3) Every mechanic knows how to work on them over here
4) Tax, insurance etc. doesn't cost much
5) Volvos offer better ergonomics than any other make on the planet. I've driven a Volvo from Germany to Sweden and from Sweden to France. It felt like I'd been sitting on a comfortable sofa/couch for 15 minutes!
Hasn’t Chinese ownership and manufacturing changed most of that? I show you can only get truly Swedish made Volvo’s XC60, XC90, and the V90 Cross Country, all the rest made elsewhere.
@@ozarkliving7263 Are you driving a Chinese car? 😄😄😄
Would really love to know how Doug buys/sells cars - are they all separate loans, or rolled up into a single loan, or purchased outright, or some other magic?
I think some cars like the CGT, Countach, or even F40 don’t attract as many enthusiasts anymore i think because of the price point it mainly attracts people who liked the car as kids but dont actually care for cars as a whole. They buy them because they know other people know how expensive it is, they also know they don’t have to drive it a lot. Imo anything over $200k starts to attract more non enthusiasts than actual enthusiasts. I also think that people who hate low hp cars or people who hate specific region cars US, EU, etc. arent actual enthusiasts
Comparing the new BMW's grill to Audi a8 made no sense
"GT4 RS, you passed up a 911, you're real." so true
When did Kenan join the Russian navy? 😂 Sorry Kenan, I couldn’t resist. I hope you and Emily are doing well.
After listening to Doug for years, I can only say this...
Ford GT is my dream car, I want to ride in Doug's.
11:38 Chrysler/dodge 😅