This is the best description of how Jake works I have heard. Every other explanation I have heard has missed telling about the timing on the exhaust valve opening. Everyone else just says that it holds the valves open but they don't say just when they are opened in the cycle. Now I get it.
Here's the best explanation of how they actually work. Imagine you are on a pogo stick. You hop up in the air and as soon as you hit the ground and compress the internal spring, or air in the case of an engine, I reach down really quick and take that spring away, or dump the air in the case of an engine. You hopped up in the air to start with, then hit the ground, I took the spring away, now you just make a thud and that's it. You don't spring back up in the air again because I dumped that stored energy at the exact right moment. Another simple explanation of a Jake brake is it just turns your big diesel engine into an air compressor. When the Jake brakes are activated, the governor or the ecm cuts the fuel and manipulates the exhaust valves on all the compression strokes exactly like how a big air compressor would work. Unless it's a rotary screw air compressor which are much more efficient.
Funny story about Jake Brakes - The original idea came from Clessie Cummins, founder of Cummins after he had left the business in the 1950s. They had an agreement that he would present them any inventions he came up with, but they were not interested in this idea. Clessie presented the idea to Jacobs Manufacturing Co. and look at them now!
I've worked with Jakes both on Cummins and Detroits. Both work very well. In the Fire Service, we had retarders on some apparatus. This is electric, a device fitted to the driveshaft. They use aluminium disks and electromagnets, absolutely silent and magic.
I watch all of your videos , I drove big rig's for 34 yr's and I can tell you the jake was the single best invention in trucking ever ! I drove trucks without them and it was HELL . I put a exhaust brake on my 2006 Dodge Cummins and I can tell you I am impressed , I wish I would have done it when it was brand new . I went with the PacBrake because it was rated the best , and it is amazing . Thanks for all the good videos .
You got to see a lot of changes. But the kids today aren't taught how to deal with coming off a grade without an engine brake. I drive log truck, theres times on mud or ice with steep ground where the Jake is no good if you want to keep your drivers rolling. They just dont teach new drivers real skills anymore. If the trucks mechanical or computer systems cant do it then its unsafe and time to park the truck. It's a sad state of affairs where we have a serious job and few are qualified to do it. Automatic slack adjusters is another advancement that has newer drivers with less skill. Most of them have no clue how to adjust them and never look at their brakes. I'm under my log truck mon, wed, and friday adjusting my brakes.... my life depends on it! I had my company take the auto adjusters off my tractor and put manuals on. I dont want to become complicit in assuming my brakes work as advertised. With manual adjusters I see and touch the equipment and yes... I found a cracked brake drum last week. Modern equipment is making unsafe drivers. No wonder accident rates are going up even tho rules and regulations are stricter.
@@vf12497439 1st two yrs driving bobtail tridrive bodyjobs transport straight into BC winters, I didn't use my jakes OR cruise, just lockers when needed. I thought I would fly off the surface if I did. So right onto the deep end. Dad would be proud, meebee .. lol!
@@vf12497439 have to agree with you. The computerized & automatic systems on all vehicles are duming people down. Don't get me wrong some of that stuff is great but we shouldn't be relying on it 100%.
I've been a school bus driver for 10 years, and I've driven quite a few buses. One of the buses I drove had an exhaust brake on it (think it was an '05 International, can't remember what kind of engine was in it though). It was a really nice feature, especially on field trips. Coupled with the automatic, it would not only slow down on the hills, but the tranny would also shift down on its own. I still had to use the brake pedal, especially with a lot of passengers, but given that Internationals tend to require a heavy foot to operate the brakes, it was a really nice ankle-saver. The biggest drawback I found with it was the odd smell of burnt diesel whenever I used it. The odor would get into the cabin and stay there for a minute or two after I'd turned the E-brake off. It wasn't overwhelming, but still noticeable. I really miss that bus sometimes. Out of all the Trash Nationals I've driven, it was actually a good bus!
Lmao 😂 It says it's been two years since you wrote this with no reply and only 4 thumbs up. Hilarious, topnotch writing. I guess it just requires to much joy for all the Karen's to catch the joke.
One of the most beautiful sounds I've ever heard was Atlanta Fire Truck 11 heavy on the Jake in downtown Atlanta. 1980's American LaFrance tillered aerial. I loved riding that truck.
Thanks for the explanation. I don’t seem to be able to explain to people how efficient a Jake brake is at being inefficient. Classiest was a genius. The patent was a wedding gift to Clessie’s daughter and new son in law. He was of the Family known for Jacobs drill chucks.
Had no idea about that. Some people probably aren't aware of what a Jacobs Chuck is. To give his daughter the patent on the Jake brake as a wedding gift, is making them multi millionaires on there wedding day. Wow what a gift.
@@anonymous4507 It is made to waste kinetic energy, from the forward momentum forward of the vehicle and turn it into compressed air which is released to atmosphere. Drum and disc brakes also waste energy but they turn it directly into heat and get hot. When they get hot they don’t work well. Jake brakes only heat the air that they compress which is released.
Just watched the video and wanted to comment. I worked for Mack in the late nineties and they had this setup with Jacobs called the Stealth system on their 454 E7's. It was the Extarder exhaust brake with the Jacobs engine brake together. Basically on the low setting it was just the exhaust brake and then on the high it was both but the compression brake was detuned so it was basically a failure. Went back to just a Jacobs engine brake on the ETechs.
Haha No kidding. Was buying my truck and asked the dealer about the exhaust brake. He looked at me with a puzzled look. I explained what I was talking about and he perked up, "oh, you mean the Jake Brake!" No, no I don't but sure...
@@jkollar109 Haha I feel ya. I have an '03 Cummins with a factory installed Jacobs exhaust brake. So hard to explain to people that it's not actually a Jake 😆
Our dairy has the 2015 Cat truck with automatic 6 speed trans. From what I understand, International made Cat the engine, and Cat painted it their signature Cat yellow color, and put their own name on it. "N13" we discovered it came with engine brakes as well as an exhaust brake, once we pulled the motor to swap out with yet another "Cat" motor made from International
The exhaust style engine brake can be useful when shifting going up a steep hill. The equipment were school buses with spicer 5 speeds powered by cat 3208's.
This was really interesting. I've used engine brakes but really had no clue of the mechanics of these units. Plus the none truck driver question people ask "why do those big trucks make THAT loud noise?"
Mr. Adept Ape more illustrations and photos please. I’m new to owning a diesel not to mention I’m a bit slow when it comes to visuals on things I know nothing about. Thanks for the info and the explanation sir. ✌🏽
I’ve driven semis in every state but HI without a Jake brake, Retarder or Exhaust brake. I’ve driven with a Jake or Engine Brake in almost every state. I’d choose any advantage over none, though I’d choose a Jake equipped engine first. You rarely see Sqawl Handles anymore, so many trucks becoming automatics so anyone can hold a steering wheel. I’m glad I’m done with it.
Donaldson makes the "Silent Partner" series mufflers to quiet the exhaust to Quiet City Ordinance Standards. It is worth looking at if you want to run the Jake Brake in a city.
So what is your opinion regarding exhaust manifold durability on exhaust brake systems? Are manifold and stud failures more common on exhaust brake systems? How does your shop handle manifold issues? Machine or replace?
Rob Lunday probably it depend on the design and material strength of the exhaust system. If they strong enough usualy it will fine. The exhaust system mostly corrode faster so see this factor too beside design and material. Here in indonesia, i see that using exhaust brake mostly impact lifespan of the turbocharger (turbine side) which put stress on oil seal, the shaft and bearings of the turbo. Comonly happened on light duty truck such as fuso canter or hino 300(also called dutro). Both of them still use engine technology from 90s. Its mechanical direct injection without any computer control. Medium duty truck like hino 500 are not so much affected as they have stronger design and very relies on exhaust brake.
Josh, I’d love to see a video on operation and rebuilding or the inner workings of the CAT BRAKESAVER. I understand the theory of operation but would love to see one in more detail.
You did a very good job explaining how a Jake brake works on a Diesel truck engines do you think a Jake brake could work on a Gasoline type car or truck engine the same way with the same effect???
I always wondered what it was/is about Precup engines that precluded Jake brakes. I know they had the Cat retarder and that it is completely different and not in the conversation. The DI 3406 engines of the late seventies into the 90s had jakes. But the precup engines did/do not. Why?
In the 3406A era of the early 70's the Jake brake was still pretty new technology that had not gained any traction in the industry. In the 3406 A, and early B era Cat did not even acknowledge them and the truck manufactures had to take the engine apart, and install the Jake kit as a factory option. I think even in the early 90's they were still taking the engines apart and adding the brake kits still. Cat wanted to sell you the brake savers on our engines instead of the Jake brakes. It was not until 95 when the E model 3406 engines came out that I know that the engine was designed from the start to have the jake brakes built in at the Cat Factory during the assembly process. By that time it was so common to have engine brakes that when we would get one without the brake housing on top the inside of the engine looked wierd to us! The original A model engines also did not have the beefed up exhaust valves and the Jakes were kinda of known for being hard on the valves and breaking the valve heads off. Cat changed the make up of the valves later on the B engines and as the original heads came back through for reman purposes the A models got the updated valves in them at that time. At that time we had to go directly to Jacobs manufacturing to get parts for the brakes just simply because they were considered an add on aftermarket and Cat would not carry the parts to fix them. Now that Cat and Jacobs got in bed years later in the development of the Cat brakes on the later ACERT engines they carry the parts through the dealer network.
Very informative thank you. I have an RV with the 8.3 Cummins. It has an exhaust brake switch that I turn on and it helps, but reading through the manual it says it has a retarder, which from my understanding uses the transmission for braking. How do I know if the exhaust brake is working in conjunction with the retarder? It just doesn't seem like it's slowing like it should. Is there a way to bench test exhaust brakes or is it best to have someone drive the RV while I'm in back by the engine and just physically look at the exhaust brake to see if it's opening and closing? I learned a lot from your video thanks.
Excellent video as usual. Minor point - on the older mechanical engines, the fuel was still injected, so the only way to prevent that was to turn off the start switch, which some drivers did, and that did create more retarding power; however, the injector plungers were still going up and down but without the beneficial lubricating properties of diesel fuel - bad news. So, if I was informed of that practice, the driver was educated on the potential real adverse effects of that practice.
All the jerk pums I have worked on shut the fuel off as soon as the engine was over run, and as the fuel was still flowing throgh the pump there was never any harm.
On the older mechanical engines turning on the Jake caused oil pressure to move a plunger down to lock the injector plunger so no fuel is injected . Then the injector pushrod causes the exhaust valve to open .
@@Equiluxe1 Not on a Cummins PTG fuel system. There is certainly fuel still flowing through the fuel pump in that scenario, but no fuel could bypass the fuel pump solenoid to the injectors once the diaphragm slams shut due to lack of 12 volts.
@@cbmech2563 - That is not correct. When the cam operated injector push tube rose to push the injector plunger down while the Jake Brake system was operating, it simultaneously activated the Jake Brake hydraulic system which (short story) opened the exhaust valves. At no time were the injector plungers locked down.
The Fucked-liners I used to work on back in the day (some K-dubs, but most Freightliner) had front/rear bank jakes on them. IE: 2 toggle switches on the dash; one for the front 3 and one for the back 3, and normal operation of thus entailed flipping both at once. I never understood why Cat didn't just wire everything through the same switch...
My 2000 FLD 120 has two toggle switches,says 2 cyl and 4 cyl. In the 05 and 06 Colombia's we have are just high and low and don't work in low side of the transmission. I've looked them both up,and just from experience with them,the high/low on the Colombia's Detroits are 2or 4. The Cummins(redtop n14) in the FLD is 2 and 4 and works in all 10 gears! When you turn both switches on you got All 6 cylinders braking! Even with 656k miles on it,it will still rock you right against the the steering wheel! Much prefer the system on the FLD!
Great info! The exhaust brake on my old International Maxxforce felt about as effective as the Jake on my old N14 and my new ISX15 truck with the system set to "1"..... In other words, it was damn near totally ineffective. Brake jobs nearly tripled in elapsed time after I ditched that Maxx POS......
The maxx force got a bad name but I drove one with 620,000 and it was a damm good motor held great oil pressure and pulled up mountains without having to downshift
@@jamesshaw4954 I'm sure there will always be examples of any contested engine model that do alright, after all they did make thousands of them! That said, the general dissatisfaction with the MaxxForce combined with the subsequent abandonment of the engine for Cummins engines by International, tells me they had an overall bad engine on their hands. Mine had only 250K and almost never worked right or ran without a check engine light on. My N14 went 850K miles with almost zero problems and I've got an average of 300K on several ISX15 engines right now, with only regular maintenance required.
My maxx 10 had an egr cooler failure twice, causing a hydro lock situation. Has had 2 in-frame overhauls, and still has less than 60,000! No “self-called” truck driver, will make me believe these are even decent engines. Pure, pure, junk!
Question, which is a more effective engine brake? An engine with mechanical unit injector (older Cat Cummins) or an engine with injection pumps (Mack, ISL, ISB Cummins)? I installed a lot of Jake's in the 1980s and the older Cummins engines you had to remove the exhaust rocker arm off of shaft and grind it down on the sides so the slave piston would pass by to reach the top of the exhaust valve spring retainer.
Awesome! My 18 ram with g56 had the exhaust brake and it works amazing. I’m ordering a new class 6 truck with the L9 Cummins. The exhaust brake was 184$ and the compression brake was 2132$ LOL I wouldn’t even be able to use it for what it’s worth so engine brake it is.
Hypothetically you can use an exhaust brake system on a truck equipped with a jake brake. It could potentially improve braking ability, but I'd be willing to bet in most systems, it would just make the jake bake system work less efficiently. The point of a Compression brake is to let all that high pressure air escape quickly at the, well, wrong time. If you then restrict the exhaust, that air has no where to go and it doesn't escape the system quickly. Thus you lose efficiency. Conversely, if done right, this could work by essentially reversing the airflow in the engine or at the least nearly stopping it entirely. It's not. Very good idea and theory isn't the same thing as real life.
Efficacy of the compression brake relies on the turbo charger which itself relies on unobstructed exhaust flow. If exhaust flow is restricted, the turbo's boost wanes thereby detracting from the compression brake which is itself much more effective than an exhaust brake, so it really is either or...the clearer choice being a compression brake if you need the stopping power. Alternatively, if say you had a supercharger instead of a turbocharger, then what you're saying is absolutely right, you could literally add the two stopping forces together very effectively....& probably to the point of stressing the engine & drivetrain too much! But the argument against using superchargers is that they use more energy from the engine than turbochargers to function.
Thank you for this great explanation. I just have one question: how does restricting the exhaust gas flow in an exhaust brake system slow down the engine?
So I run a Detroit DD13 and I've been told it's got a real jake in it but I've also been told it's got just a exhaust valve, it's only 2 position, it works ok, the older Cummings X15 I used to run had a real 3 position jake in it and that worked incredibly well, but the interesting thing is the Detroit is LOUDER really loud , the jake in the Cummings was quiet, both were completely stock exhaust, the DD13 is a grass burner.
Where Im from the steepest longest hill used to warn 10mph, max engine braking. And there was a special lane for trucks that were still going 60 at the bottom. Some jackass at the bottom of the hill complained, so they put up a sign "no jakes". Then 3 out of towners never slowed down at the top. Two went in the runaway ramp, the 3rd went through jackasses house. Their service brakes had all caught fire halfway down the hill.
Thank you very much, find this very informative. Busy building an exhaust brake for my Thar. Roxor over there. Does the butterfly need A breather hole? Best (SA)
Add in for maintenance on a lot of the vacuum exhaust breaks I've come across requires a regular cleaning of the vacuum solenoid about every 6 months...
In a Jake, the spring effect of the compressed air built on the compression stroke is stopped from being returned to the crankshaft. ie like a bicycle pump. Squeeze the plunger until TDC with your thumb over the hole, then at tdc remove your thumb! The compressed air is released immediately stopping the pump plunger springing back.
Our 6v92ta and Cummins ISM have a mean sounding Jake 😍 our C12 MBL would sound better if I straight piped it but my Fire Chief said no because we did that with the 6v92ta and it screams
We run heavy on the jakes on Kenworth T909 tri axle road trains weighting 200+ tonne quad road trains on the public roads in Australia. Going into canyons is fun..
the biggest problem with jake brakes is their abuse in residentual areas by drivers pulling empty wagons.thats what pisses people off to have them banned in towns.
Hi mate, bloody excellent videos..I'm a retired diesel mechanic in Australia, spent most of my life working on Macks, Cummins, Cat and early Detroit's and was wondering your thoughts on truck drivers using their retarders (jakes or dynatard) to drop their revs when floating their gears. I can remember in the 80's Mack had some camshaft failures they attributed to drivers using their retarders when floating gears as the engine brake was being used very briefly on an unloaded engine and the camshaft was failing...any thoughts...love your channel, bloody excellent mate 👍👍
The Jacobs Engineering engine brake. I thought it was just a compression release. I had a dirtbike that had a compression release. The tow trucks I used to drive had a form of a compression release, they had a CAT engine that looked suspiciously a lot like a smallblock Chevy with an injector pump and no carburator. I like the sound, "BWAUGGGGGG!" That's the sound they don't want you to make near schools and hospitals...
There was a company about 10 years ago trying to fundraise for a product called ThunderBrake, a jake system for Cummins 6bt. It would've mounted the solenoids on top of the valve cover.
got a real off the wall question? 1999 Isuzu npr box truck 14 footer, exhaust brake is bad or seized up. can I make a manual lever type to engage exhaust brake on and off instead of electric or vacumm type?
So a jake brake will dump air that's compressed. That's cool. Could it also use a vacuum? the down stroke, too, being that they can control the exhurst valve you could control the intake too ? Or would this suck gasket in ?
So... what if you pulsed the exhaust brake in between each Jake pulse so the cylinder dump pressure dump hits a closed wall, but still much more volume than the cylinder so the air will rush out anyway until pressure equalizes, then when the exhaust valves close, open the exhaust brake? A lotttttttt more expensive to build something like that, but still
Another thing people do not realize is that the actual effectiveness of a Jake brake is solely dependent on how much compression the engine has. That's why older Cat engines such as the 3406 A,B, and C's did not have that great of Jake brakes. The 3406E's and C-15's have a much higher compression ratio thus a much better braking efficiency is attained.
I'm selling my freightliner with the C7. My new truck is Cummins. Know an Adept Ape type channel for Cummins? Im still subscribing, your information is pretty universal. I've learned more here than anywhere! (Wear your hat however you like)
I was told blocking the exhaust will burn the valves. What's keeping them from burning now? Titanium material? Na-filled? I would have thought an intake side butterfly valve works much much better at letting the engine generate braking force.
Just wanted to say thank you for all these great videos you take the time to put on here and also do you still work on cat edges cuz I'm thinking about buying a truck with a cab engine and I'll most definitely like you to work on it if I get one
Hi adept If the jake brake and the exhaust brake are electronically controlled then in theory by a bypass switch both could be mounted on diesel engine that can support both systems. Only if the input is from the throttle input side. If it is all controlled by a ecu then I don't know if it can be done. But it's a thought of having both systems could help make the big engines more flexible in usage. As I say it's a possible way if we can. Your's Philip from England 🏴
You could definitely have both systems, but as Shain said you would be paying a lot and could only use 1 system at a time. Only advantage I can think of would be using the exhaust brake in quiet areas.
@@AdeptApe I did actually see a Ford Louisville with a 3406 back in 90 or 91 that had both a Jake and exhaust brake...the driver liked the dual system and said the biggest advantage was the quieter exhaust brake in residential areas as he moved paving equipment at all hours.
I have a chevy kodiak with the duramax engine, it has the vgt turbo and it uses this for the exhaust brake function. There is some added noise as the engine rpm's go up considerably when the exhaust brake is active. Also interesting to see the boost guage go up when the exhaust brake is operating.
Can you explain to me then why most of the heavier duty trucks (up to 75 000 kg/165 000 lbs for one truck) in europe almost always are only fitted with an exhaust brake? Is it because of the noise?
Interesting. I don't have any auxiliary brake on my RV, it's a real pain in moutain drive ! I have the 3208 cat and it seems that this engine has not enough compression to get an effective jake brake. The only way to me to get an auxiliary brake is to install an other transmission, not enough of room to install an electric brake unfortunately. Thanks for sharing !
The brake savers used engine oil to slow the engine down. Yes it worked as a hydraulic retarder in that it was like a backwards torque converter. Instead of turning the outer shell of the torque conveter and driving the stator inside to transmit the power to the wheels the brake saver would hold the stator ring in place and drive the oil into the stator. This would cause lots of drag on the engine and slow the engine down. The problems with brakesavers are that they are HEAVY in the truck, required more oil in the engine to make it work, needed a way bigger oil cooler or in some applications they had their own oil cooler in the case of off highway trucks because they made a TON of heat in the engine oil due to the way that the brakesaver shears the oil in order to work, they leaked if not maintained, and made servicing things like the clutch way harder because the torque converter is in front of the Transmission so you had to pull the brake saver off in order to get to the clutch. Brake savers have pretty much went away unless you drive truck in mountainous regions or very heavy haul applications where you need the extra brakeing power. Like some commenters have said, Jake brake plus Cat brakesaver equals hardly ever stepping on the service brake pedal at all. Bad thing also is finding anyone who knows anything about the brakesavers anymore to work on them. The old hands are pretty much gone. I have been a Cat dealer tech for 25 years and I have only worked on two of them and that was years ago.
@@brucelee64485 Slight error, you do not have to pull Brakesaver to get to clutch. The inner flywheel has the ring gear for the starter. Has four allen head bolts to secure it to the stator. The outer flywheel is for your transmission clutch hook up. However if you had the transmission out and did not remove the Brakesaver and service it, shame on you. You have a piston type internal ring on each side. Also each side has a hydrodynamic seal to catch any linkage past the ring. The hsg housed the part that the ring runs against. That part is removable and has a seal on it. If worn, piston ring will not seal. So all of these needs to be inspected or replaced. You had to have two tools to hold the stator as you assembled it. The outer fixture was available through Cat. The inner tool is fabricated. When you are ready to install the hydrodynamic seals. I place the outer tool on first and lock the stator. Install the engine side hydrodynamic seal. Install the fabricated tool and may have to use washers or what ever to lock stator, and shim it flush. Then remove the outer fixture and install outer hydrodynamic seal. Reinstall outer fixture and remove inner fabricated tool. Install ring gear flywheel with mounting bolts Get at lease two very long studs to screw in crankshaft. Install Brakesaver, making sure you time it to the crankshaft dowel. Install the allen bolts that holds the Brakesaver to the rear hsg. Now you can remove the outer fixture and install clutch flywheel, leaving guide studs in. Start two bolts and snug. Now you can remove guide bolts and finish assembly. I worked on a early 1693 Cat and the oil cooler for the Brakesaver was not mounted on the engine. It was near the front tandem, with oil lines and coolant lines connected to it. Changing the oil was a bear, as you had to loosen the oil lines to remove all the oil trapped in these lines.
In my diesel lecture a few months ago, my instructor was saying that semi truck manufacturers are experimenting with start stop technology on trucks and are integrating the Jake brakes to release the compression when the engine shuts off so the truck doesn’t shake and rattle every time the engine stops when you apply the brakes
@@bertgrau9246 Not sure, the rattling when you shut the truck off with an eaton fuller is from the trans, pushing the clutch halfway or all the way down disconnects the engine from trans so no rattle. As for automatics ya got me stumped, I don't think it hurts anything honestly.
@@madjack1748 SIR your probably correct with the auto shift, I know your CORRECT about the manual, the older Macks with the Mack transmission was the same way.
A few years ago I drove an Adolf Saurer truck that had a Jake brake and an eddy current retarder (on the drive shaft to the rear wheels) This truck was designed and built for Swiss Alpine use. The engine also had a Supercharger for the hugh altitude use.
Hi there, help me understand here, why small diesel sedans or some pickup trucks don't have exhaust brakes. at least when it comes to pick up trucks they weigh up to 3 tonnes, imagine them towing something, that number will be 4.5 tonnes which is like a small city truck. i think it should be necessary but they dont have engine brakes at all. Why?
2017 f350 lariat it's my first diesel .1 month owner. I just don't want to break down . Does the exhaust break build alot of back preasure an cause the crank case an oil pan leak in yalls opinion. I bought the truck an next day started drippin oil. Then they replaced crank gasket,2nd oil pan gasket apologies for the dumb questions just tryin to understand so I don't fk up an have a costly repair from ignorance
I saw a pickup truck with a camper one time, it was a diesel, but, supposedly it had a jake brake. I don't recall the exact model, I think it was an older Dodge.
I do have to note, exhaust brakes do generate noise depending on the manufacturer of the engine, I know with a lot of the Cummins ISX15's that ran them the cooling fan would automatically kick on under stage 3 exhaust brakes, but it's tertiary noise.
And here I am with a factory installed Jacobs Vehicle Systems Exhaust Brake on my 5.9 Cummins confusing the shit outta people when I explain I have a Jake but, it's not mechanical 😁
A guy I know that has 20 Pete’s and all have 3 stage Jakes and he bought a new Dodge pick up and he said where’s the Jake and they sent his 5.9 cummins pick up to the Cummins shop and had a Jake put on it and it sounded great so I guess you can get it on 5.9 and I don’t remember what year but I do know it was a 5,9 before emissions so does that sound right ?
So when the compression brakes are active do the affected cylinders just repeat intake, compression, intake, compression strokes? There is no need for a combustion or exhaust stroke?
Jake Brake keeping America awake for over 40 yrs! :)
Lawrence Magda a lot aren’t loud at all. But yeah if it has pipes it’s load af but music to my ears.
Yep
U R GOOD!
Jake Brake = Motivation
Nope! Only loud when bubba gump removes the muffler, and runs straight pipes!
This is the best description of how Jake works I have heard. Every other explanation I have heard has missed telling about the timing on the exhaust valve opening. Everyone else just says that it holds the valves open but they don't say just when they are opened in the cycle. Now I get it.
Here's the best explanation of how they actually work. Imagine you are on a pogo stick. You hop up in the air and as soon as you hit the ground and compress the internal spring, or air in the case of an engine, I reach down really quick and take that spring away, or dump the air in the case of an engine. You hopped up in the air to start with, then hit the ground, I took the spring away, now you just make a thud and that's it. You don't spring back up in the air again because I dumped that stored energy at the exact right moment. Another simple explanation of a Jake brake is it just turns your big diesel engine into an air compressor. When the Jake brakes are activated, the governor or the ecm cuts the fuel and manipulates the exhaust valves on all the compression strokes exactly like how a big air compressor would work. Unless it's a rotary screw air compressor which are much more efficient.
Funny story about Jake Brakes - The original idea came from Clessie Cummins, founder of Cummins after he had left the business in the 1950s. They had an agreement that he would present them any inventions he came up with, but they were not interested in this idea. Clessie presented the idea to Jacobs Manufacturing Co. and look at them now!
I wish my instructor at UTI (Avondale/Phoenix) in 2005 was as knowledgeable and articulate as you.
Great video.
I've worked with Jakes both on Cummins and Detroits. Both work very well. In the Fire Service, we had retarders on some apparatus. This is electric, a device fitted to the driveshaft. They use aluminium disks and electromagnets, absolutely silent and magic.
Makes a fuck ton of heat when in operation... Energy has to go somewhere
@@neptarclepuffin many retarders are hooked into the engines coolant, so overheating isnt a big concern
And expensive, don't forget expensive !
I watch all of your videos , I drove big rig's for 34 yr's and I can tell you the jake was the single best invention in trucking ever !
I drove trucks without them and it was HELL . I put a exhaust brake on my 2006 Dodge Cummins and I can tell you I am impressed , I wish I would have done it when it was brand new . I went with the PacBrake because it was rated the best , and it is amazing . Thanks for all the good videos .
You got to see a lot of changes. But the kids today aren't taught how to deal with coming off a grade without an engine brake. I drive log truck, theres times on mud or ice with steep ground where the Jake is no good if you want to keep your drivers rolling. They just dont teach new drivers real skills anymore. If the trucks mechanical or computer systems cant do it then its unsafe and time to park the truck. It's a sad state of affairs where we have a serious job and few are qualified to do it. Automatic slack adjusters is another advancement that has newer drivers with less skill. Most of them have no clue how to adjust them and never look at their brakes. I'm under my log truck mon, wed, and friday adjusting my brakes.... my life depends on it! I had my company take the auto adjusters off my tractor and put manuals on. I dont want to become complicit in assuming my brakes work as advertised. With manual adjusters I see and touch the equipment and yes... I found a cracked brake drum last week. Modern equipment is making unsafe drivers. No wonder accident rates are going up even tho rules and regulations are stricter.
@@vf12497439 1st two yrs driving bobtail tridrive bodyjobs transport straight into BC winters, I didn't use my jakes OR cruise, just lockers when needed. I thought I would fly off the surface if I did. So right onto the deep end. Dad would be proud, meebee .. lol!
@@vf12497439 have to agree with you. The computerized & automatic systems on all vehicles are duming people down. Don't get me wrong some of that stuff is great but we shouldn't be relying on it 100%.
Also brakes on the steers.
Well done, simple easy to follow description of Jake vs Exhaust brakes.
Today most diesel engines come with some kind of engine brakes, I remember when you had drag your feet to stop your truck , glad those days are gone
What do you mean drag your leg ? Won't it tear your leg from your torso
@@mohnish7653 people were much stronger back in the good ol' days
@@CallumTapper i highly doubt this claim you cannot stop a truck with your feet
I use gravity rare I have to actually apply brakes to stop
I've been a school bus driver for 10 years, and I've driven quite a few buses. One of the buses I drove had an exhaust brake on it (think it was an '05 International, can't remember what kind of engine was in it though). It was a really nice feature, especially on field trips. Coupled with the automatic, it would not only slow down on the hills, but the tranny would also shift down on its own. I still had to use the brake pedal, especially with a lot of passengers, but given that Internationals tend to require a heavy foot to operate the brakes, it was a really nice ankle-saver. The biggest drawback I found with it was the odd smell of burnt diesel whenever I used it. The odor would get into the cabin and stay there for a minute or two after I'd turned the E-brake off. It wasn't overwhelming, but still noticeable. I really miss that bus sometimes. Out of all the Trash Nationals I've driven, it was actually a good bus!
Lmao 😂 It says it's been two years since you wrote this with no reply and only 4 thumbs up. Hilarious, topnotch writing. I guess it just requires to much joy for all the Karen's to catch the joke.
@@thetruthspeaker1978 Maybe they would have gotten it if I'd called it the Thirteen Letter S*** Spreader?
@@jasongeorge7987 They might catch your drift then.😂
@@thetruthspeaker1978 4 months after you wrote, the count is now 9, still very few are 🤣🤣🤣. Great story.
One of the most beautiful sounds I've ever heard was Atlanta Fire Truck 11 heavy on the Jake in downtown Atlanta. 1980's American LaFrance tillered aerial. I loved riding that truck.
Thanks for the explanation. I don’t seem to be able to explain to people how efficient a Jake brake is at being inefficient.
Classiest was a genius.
The patent was a wedding gift to Clessie’s daughter and new son in law. He was of the Family known for Jacobs drill chucks.
Had no idea about that. Some people probably aren't aware of what a Jacobs Chuck is. To give his daughter the patent on the Jake brake as a wedding gift, is making them multi millionaires on there wedding day. Wow what a gift.
Inefficient compared to what?
@@anonymous4507 It is made to waste kinetic energy, from the forward momentum forward of the vehicle and turn it into compressed air which is released to atmosphere. Drum and disc brakes also waste energy but they turn it directly into heat and get hot. When they get hot they don’t work well. Jake brakes only heat the air that they compress which is released.
Just watched the video and wanted to comment. I worked for Mack in the late nineties and they had this setup with Jacobs called the Stealth system on their 454 E7's. It was the Extarder exhaust brake with the Jacobs engine brake together. Basically on the low setting it was just the exhaust brake and then on the high it was both but the compression brake was detuned so it was basically a failure. Went back to just a Jacobs engine brake on the ETechs.
I'm so tired of explaining this to pick up truck owners.
That's for the video.
Haha No kidding. Was buying my truck and asked the dealer about the exhaust brake. He looked at me with a puzzled look. I explained what I was talking about and he perked up, "oh, you mean the Jake Brake!" No, no I don't but sure...
@@jkollar109 Haha I feel ya. I have an '03 Cummins with a factory installed Jacobs exhaust brake. So hard to explain to people that it's not actually a Jake 😆
I own a 2019 Dodge RAM with a Cummins diesel engine. The Exhaust Brake works awesome when towing my 5th wheel trailer.
Hello there Adept hope you're doing great mann. Keep these videos rolling mate 👍👍👍
Our dairy has the 2015 Cat truck with automatic 6 speed trans. From what I understand, International made Cat the engine, and Cat painted it their signature Cat yellow color, and put their own name on it. "N13" we discovered it came with engine brakes as well as an exhaust brake, once we pulled the motor to swap out with yet another "Cat" motor made from International
Cat really own makes their big engines a big equipment... Practically everything else isn't made by them
The exhaust style engine brake can be useful when shifting going up a steep hill. The equipment were school buses with spicer 5 speeds powered by cat 3208's.
I have one on my 5.9 Cummins and it does NOT react quickly enough to have anything to do with downshifting.
I always assumed they were the same - now I know the difference. Thanks for the explanation!
This was really interesting. I've used engine brakes but really had no clue of the mechanics of these units.
Plus the none truck driver question people ask "why do those big trucks make THAT loud noise?"
Mr. Adept Ape more illustrations and photos please. I’m new to owning a diesel not to mention I’m a bit slow when it comes to visuals on things I know nothing about.
Thanks for the info and the explanation sir.
✌🏽
I’ve driven semis in every state but HI without a Jake brake, Retarder or Exhaust brake. I’ve driven with a Jake or Engine Brake in almost every state. I’d choose any advantage over none, though I’d choose a Jake equipped engine first. You rarely see Sqawl Handles anymore, so many trucks becoming automatics so anyone can hold a steering wheel. I’m glad I’m done with it.
With that logic you shouldn’t drive cars anymore
Congrats duder, you just got a new subscriber! I'd never even heard of you until today & it did not take long to win me over. Keep it up!
Excellent clean explanation
Donaldson makes the "Silent Partner" series mufflers to quiet the exhaust to Quiet City Ordinance Standards. It is worth looking at if you want to run the Jake Brake in a city.
Who wants a muffled truck. Run the Jake anyways I pay those signs about as much attention as the chicken coops
So what is your opinion regarding exhaust manifold durability on exhaust brake systems? Are manifold and stud failures more common on exhaust brake systems? How does your shop handle manifold issues? Machine or replace?
Rob Lunday probably it depend on the design and material strength of the exhaust system. If they strong enough usualy it will fine. The exhaust system mostly corrode faster so see this factor too beside design and material.
Here in indonesia, i see that using exhaust brake mostly impact lifespan of the turbocharger (turbine side) which put stress on oil seal, the shaft and bearings of the turbo. Comonly happened on light duty truck such as fuso canter or hino 300(also called dutro). Both of them still use engine technology from 90s. Its mechanical direct injection without any computer control. Medium duty truck like hino 500 are not so much affected as they have stronger design and very relies on exhaust brake.
Josh, I’d love to see a video on operation and rebuilding or the inner workings of the CAT BRAKESAVER. I understand the theory of operation but would love to see one in more detail.
A lot of class 2-6 diesel trucks nowadays will usually have an exhaust brake.
You did a very good job explaining how a Jake brake works on a Diesel truck engines do you think a Jake brake could work on a Gasoline type car or truck engine the same way with the same effect???
Exhaust brakes will work on gassers. Also the old transmission brakes were used on gassers.
Best explanation of Jake brake I found! Thanks!
I always wondered what it was/is about Precup engines that precluded Jake brakes. I know they had the Cat retarder and that it is completely different and not in the conversation. The DI 3406 engines of the late seventies into the 90s had jakes. But the precup engines did/do not. Why?
In the 3406A era of the early 70's the Jake brake was still pretty new technology that had not gained any traction in the industry. In the 3406 A, and early B era Cat did not even acknowledge them and the truck manufactures had to take the engine apart, and install the Jake kit as a factory option. I think even in the early 90's they were still taking the engines apart and adding the brake kits still. Cat wanted to sell you the brake savers on our engines instead of the Jake brakes. It was not until 95 when the E model 3406 engines came out that I know that the engine was designed from the start to have the jake brakes built in at the Cat Factory during the assembly process. By that time it was so common to have engine brakes that when we would get one without the brake housing on top the inside of the engine looked wierd to us! The original A model engines also did not have the beefed up exhaust valves and the Jakes were kinda of known for being hard on the valves and breaking the valve heads off. Cat changed the make up of the valves later on the B engines and as the original heads came back through for reman purposes the A models got the updated valves in them at that time. At that time we had to go directly to Jacobs manufacturing to get parts for the brakes just simply because they were considered an add on aftermarket and Cat would not carry the parts to fix them. Now that Cat and Jacobs got in bed years later in the development of the Cat brakes on the later ACERT engines they carry the parts through the dealer network.
Very straightforward and understandable information. Helped a lot for me. Thanks for investing the time into the video!
Very informative thank you. I have an RV with the 8.3 Cummins. It has an exhaust brake switch that I turn on and it helps, but reading through the manual it says it has a retarder, which from my understanding uses the transmission for braking. How do I know if the exhaust brake is working in conjunction with the retarder? It just doesn't seem like it's slowing like it should. Is there a way to bench test exhaust brakes or is it best to have someone drive the RV while I'm in back by the engine and just physically look at the exhaust brake to see if it's opening and closing? I learned a lot from your video thanks.
Anything that slows you down is technically a retarder, retard means slow, or to slow. So by definition it does have a retarder.
I could ride with you, I'm retarded.
I love the sound of Jake's
Excellent video as usual. Minor point - on the older mechanical engines, the fuel was still injected, so the only way to prevent that was to turn off the start switch, which some drivers did, and that did create more retarding power; however, the injector plungers were still going up and down but without the beneficial lubricating properties of diesel fuel - bad news. So, if I was informed of that practice, the driver was educated on the potential real adverse effects of that practice.
All the jerk pums I have worked on shut the fuel off as soon as the engine was over run, and as the fuel was still flowing throgh the pump there was never any harm.
On the older mechanical engines turning on the Jake caused oil pressure to move a plunger down to lock the injector plunger so no fuel is injected . Then the injector pushrod causes the exhaust valve to open .
@@Equiluxe1 Not on a Cummins PTG fuel system. There is certainly fuel still flowing through the fuel pump in that scenario, but no fuel could bypass the fuel pump solenoid to the injectors once the diaphragm slams shut due to lack of 12 volts.
@@cbmech2563 - That is not correct. When the cam operated injector push tube rose to push the injector plunger down while the Jake Brake system was operating, it simultaneously activated the Jake Brake hydraulic system which (short story) opened the exhaust valves. At no time were the injector plungers locked down.
@@cwj9202
It's been a long time since I set up a set of Jakes but I do know that no fuel was injected when the exhaust was popped
This was a great video on how the two systems work
The Fucked-liners I used to work on back in the day (some K-dubs, but most Freightliner) had front/rear bank jakes on them. IE: 2 toggle switches on the dash; one for the front 3 and one for the back 3, and normal operation of thus entailed flipping both at once. I never understood why Cat didn't just wire everything through the same switch...
My 2000 FLD 120 has two toggle switches,says 2 cyl and 4 cyl. In the 05 and 06 Colombia's we have are just high and low and don't work in low side of the transmission. I've looked them both up,and just from experience with them,the high/low on the Colombia's Detroits are 2or 4. The Cummins(redtop n14) in the FLD is 2 and 4 and works in all 10 gears! When you turn both switches on you got All 6 cylinders braking! Even with 656k miles on it,it will still rock you right against the the steering wheel! Much prefer the system on the FLD!
Jacobs invented the 3 jaw drill chuck we all know and love decades before he invented this. He was a stud!
Very well spoken
Great info!
The exhaust brake on my old International Maxxforce felt about as effective as the Jake on my old N14 and my new ISX15 truck with the system set to "1"..... In other words, it was damn near totally ineffective. Brake jobs nearly tripled in elapsed time after I ditched that Maxx POS......
The maxx force got a bad name but I drove one with 620,000 and it was a damm good motor held great oil pressure and pulled up mountains without having to downshift
@@jamesshaw4954 I'm sure there will always be examples of any contested engine model that do alright, after all they did make thousands of them!
That said, the general dissatisfaction with the MaxxForce combined with the subsequent abandonment of the engine for Cummins engines by International, tells me they had an overall bad engine on their hands. Mine had only 250K and almost never worked right or ran without a check engine light on. My N14 went 850K miles with almost zero problems and I've got an average of 300K on several ISX15 engines right now, with only regular maintenance required.
My maxx 10 had an egr cooler failure twice, causing a hydro lock situation. Has had 2 in-frame overhauls, and still has less than 60,000! No “self-called” truck driver, will make me believe these are even decent engines. Pure, pure, junk!
Intertrashional...there motor was trash but boy did they ride nice
Try playing cards in the spokes and stop whining! DK, ASE master tech since 78
from Vietnam thanks bro so much with useful knowledge
Question, which is a more effective engine brake? An engine with mechanical unit injector (older Cat Cummins) or an engine with injection pumps (Mack, ISL, ISB Cummins)? I installed a lot of Jake's in the 1980s and the older Cummins engines you had to remove the exhaust rocker arm off of shaft and grind it down on the sides so the slave piston would pass by to reach the top of the exhaust valve spring retainer.
What depicts how well the Jake brake works is the compression ratio of the engine. The higher the compression ratio the better the brake.
@@anonymous4507 correct, also engine brakes work better on large bore engines
Awesome! My 18 ram with g56 had the exhaust brake and it works amazing. I’m ordering a new class 6 truck with the L9 Cummins. The exhaust brake was 184$ and the compression brake was 2132$ LOL I wouldn’t even be able to use it for what it’s worth so engine brake it is.
Hypothetically you can use an exhaust brake system on a truck equipped with a jake brake. It could potentially improve braking ability, but I'd be willing to bet in most systems, it would just make the jake bake system work less efficiently. The point of a Compression brake is to let all that high pressure air escape quickly at the, well, wrong time. If you then restrict the exhaust, that air has no where to go and it doesn't escape the system quickly. Thus you lose efficiency. Conversely, if done right, this could work by essentially reversing the airflow in the engine or at the least nearly stopping it entirely. It's not. Very good idea and theory isn't the same thing as real life.
Efficacy of the compression brake relies on the turbo charger which itself relies on unobstructed exhaust flow. If exhaust flow is restricted, the turbo's boost wanes thereby detracting from the compression brake which is itself much more effective than an exhaust brake, so it really is either or...the clearer choice being a compression brake if you need the stopping power.
Alternatively, if say you had a supercharger instead of a turbocharger, then what you're saying is absolutely right, you could literally add the two stopping forces together very effectively....& probably to the point of stressing the engine & drivetrain too much! But the argument against using superchargers is that they use more energy from the engine than turbochargers to function.
Thank you for this great explanation. I just have one question: how does restricting the exhaust gas flow in an exhaust brake system slow down the engine?
Mack had a "stealth brake" which combined a Jake brake with an exhaust brake.......worked VERY effectively vs our trucks which had Jakes only
So I run a Detroit DD13 and I've been told it's got a real jake in it but I've also been told it's got just a exhaust valve, it's only 2 position, it works ok, the older Cummings X15 I used to run had a real 3 position jake in it and that worked incredibly well, but the interesting thing is the Detroit is LOUDER really loud , the jake in the Cummings was quiet, both were completely stock exhaust, the DD13 is a grass burner.
Cummins no G
Actually on a volvo d12 there is an option to have a Jake brake in addition to the standard exhaust brake that comes courtesy of the epg governor
Lol no way that is really cool.
@@Mr.Safety. yeah when you have both its decent enough but the exhaust brake by itself sucks
Where Im from the steepest longest hill used to warn 10mph, max engine braking. And there was a special lane for trucks that were still going 60 at the bottom. Some jackass at the bottom of the hill complained, so they put up a sign "no jakes". Then 3 out of towners never slowed down at the top. Two went in the runaway ramp, the 3rd went through jackasses house. Their service brakes had all caught fire halfway down the hill.
That moment when you flip the jakes all the way up and the truck keeps speeding up.
Coffeys Carberators that just means it’s a good hill or you’re loaded heavy. Or both 😃
Lol then you ease on the brakes and hope like hell there's not a sharp curve
😬
@@codenamecordon that means you're about to meet jesus.
Michael Closson been in that situation several times, still here 🤷♂️
Thank you very much, find this very informative. Busy building an exhaust brake for my Thar. Roxor over there. Does the butterfly need A breather hole? Best (SA)
Add in for maintenance on a lot of the vacuum exhaust breaks I've come across requires a regular cleaning of the vacuum solenoid about every 6 months...
In a Jake, the spring effect of the compressed air built on the compression stroke is stopped from being returned to the crankshaft.
ie like a bicycle pump. Squeeze the plunger until TDC with your thumb over the hole, then at tdc remove your thumb! The compressed air is released immediately stopping the pump plunger springing back.
Cummins question, does the ISX really have both?
great detail. you explained very well. and your well spoken . you should be a teacher. or your probably are.
Our 6v92ta and Cummins ISM have a mean sounding Jake 😍 our C12 MBL would sound better if I straight piped it but my Fire Chief said no because we did that with the 6v92ta and it screams
Which fire station/ city & state?
@@TheCRTman Turtle Creek Pennsylvania station 283 and 211 West Wilmerding up the hill about 1/2 a mile
@@Darth-Nihilus1 Nice! I'm out here in San Francisco, but there's still 3 8V71 hose tenders left today
@@TheCRTman the 8v71n and T were good motors but them straight piped just rip your ears when you are in the cab
@@Darth-Nihilus1 Definitely, I love them. LMAO indeed. They sound real mean with a worn muffler though.
Awesome info. What grease do you you as preventive maintenance on exhaust brake system?
We run heavy on the jakes on Kenworth T909 tri axle road trains weighting 200+ tonne quad road trains on the public roads in Australia. Going into canyons is fun..
Good overview , simple understanding , enjoy your knowledge share...
the biggest problem with jake brakes is their abuse in residentual areas by drivers pulling empty wagons.thats what pisses people off to have them banned in towns.
In a class 8 truck an exhaust brake is very aggravating. Mercedes/freightliner should have never done that. Great video
Hi mate, bloody excellent videos..I'm a retired diesel mechanic in Australia, spent most of my life working on Macks, Cummins, Cat and early Detroit's and was wondering your thoughts on truck drivers using their retarders (jakes or dynatard) to drop their revs when floating their gears. I can remember in the 80's Mack had some camshaft failures they attributed to drivers using their retarders when floating gears as the engine brake was being used very briefly on an unloaded engine and the camshaft was failing...any thoughts...love your channel, bloody excellent mate 👍👍
,,, many do it, ,,, just tooooo much wear on the valve train .
The Jacobs Engineering engine brake. I thought it was just a compression release. I had a dirtbike that had a compression release. The tow trucks I used to drive had a form of a compression release, they had a CAT engine that looked suspiciously a lot like a smallblock Chevy with an injector pump and no carburator. I like the sound, "BWAUGGGGGG!" That's the sound they don't want you to make near schools and hospitals...
How can it be power stroke when NOT firing the cylinders (when no foot on the gaspedal)?
He says it at 5:54
Intake, compression, combustion(power), exhaust. 4 stroke engine cycle.
There was a company about 10 years ago trying to fundraise for a product called ThunderBrake, a jake system for Cummins 6bt. It would've mounted the solenoids on top of the valve cover.
got a real off the wall question? 1999 Isuzu npr box truck 14 footer, exhaust brake is bad or seized up. can I make a manual lever type to engage exhaust brake on and off instead of electric or vacumm type?
So a jake brake will dump air that's compressed. That's cool. Could it also use a vacuum? the down stroke, too, being that they can control the exhurst valve you could control the intake too ? Or would this suck gasket in ?
So... what if you pulsed the exhaust brake in between each Jake pulse so the cylinder dump pressure dump hits a closed wall, but still much more volume than the cylinder so the air will rush out anyway until pressure equalizes, then when the exhaust valves close, open the exhaust brake? A lotttttttt more expensive to build something like that, but still
I'm still trying to find information on brake saver systems, but I'm not having much luck.
th-cam.com/video/U6kVxTavJps/w-d-xo.html
Wow, great explanations👍👍👍👍
i can't wait for your video on the cat brake saver
Rebuild one of these. Not many of us left who knows how to.
Another thing people do not realize is that the actual effectiveness of a Jake brake is solely dependent on how much compression the engine has. That's why older Cat engines such as the 3406 A,B, and C's did not have that great of Jake brakes. The 3406E's and C-15's have a much higher compression ratio thus a much better braking efficiency is attained.
I'm selling my freightliner with the C7. My new truck is Cummins. Know an Adept Ape type channel for Cummins?
Im still subscribing, your information is pretty universal. I've learned more here than anywhere!
(Wear your hat however you like)
There is a guy named Rawze or something similar to that. I know he does or did Cummins videos. Never met the man, but might want to start there.
I was told blocking the exhaust will burn the valves. What's keeping them from burning now? Titanium material? Na-filled? I would have thought an intake side butterfly valve works much much better at letting the engine generate braking force.
Your videos are awesome, do you have a video for changing trim codes using the ET? Just getting into using Cat ET
Just wanted to say thank you for all these great videos you take the time to put on here and also do you still work on cat edges cuz I'm thinking about buying a truck with a cab engine and I'll most definitely like you to work on it if I get one
Hi adept
If the jake brake and the exhaust brake are electronically controlled then in theory by a bypass switch both could be mounted on diesel engine that can support both systems. Only if the input is from the throttle input side.
If it is all controlled by a ecu then I don't know if it can be done.
But it's a thought of having both systems could help make the big engines more flexible in usage.
As I say it's a possible way if we can.
Your's Philip from England 🏴
That's a large financial outlay for the same outcome. One or the other, but not both.
You could definitely have both systems, but as Shain said you would be paying a lot and could only use 1 system at a time. Only advantage I can think of would be using the exhaust brake in quiet areas.
@@AdeptApe I did actually see a Ford Louisville with a 3406 back in 90 or 91 that had both a Jake and exhaust brake...the driver liked the dual system and said the biggest advantage was the quieter exhaust brake in residential areas as he moved paving equipment at all hours.
Josh; why couldn’t both systems be used at the same time? Exhaust and Jake brake. Greetings from Colombia.
I have a chevy kodiak with the duramax engine, it has the vgt turbo and it uses this for the exhaust brake function. There is some added noise as the engine rpm's go up considerably when the exhaust brake is active. Also interesting to see the boost guage go up when the exhaust brake is operating.
Part of that is the Allison transmission’s grade braking as well.
If the "engine RPM's go up considerably" how is that slowing down the vehicle ?
Can you explain to me then why most of the heavier duty trucks (up to 75 000 kg/165 000 lbs for one truck) in europe almost always are only fitted with an exhaust brake? Is it because of the noise?
Most of the larger tow trucks, fire trucks etc. Also use a drive line retarder to assist their engine brake.
I have an RV and I have wondered about the fuel consumption with the exhaust brake going downhill. Good info for my 2010 Tiffin Phaeton.
,,, fuel econ going down hill, ,,, totally a non consideration.
,,, the loud noise is actually the sudden, timed, release of compression.
Zero fuel consumption with the Jake brake or exhaust brake on.
,,, the loud noise of the timed compression release is actually louder than the regular timed exhaust of combustion .
Josh, Can you explain how to service the exhaust brake on a CAT C-9 engine. Is there a maintenance procedure?
Interesting.
I don't have any auxiliary brake on my RV, it's a real pain in moutain drive ! I have the 3208 cat and it seems that this engine has not enough compression to get an effective jake brake. The only way to me to get an auxiliary brake is to install an other transmission, not enough of room to install an electric brake unfortunately.
Thanks for sharing !
Tell us more about the brake saver. Is it the same as a hydraulic retarder?
Basically, it uses the engine oil
The brake savers used engine oil to slow the engine down. Yes it worked as a hydraulic retarder in that it was like a backwards torque converter. Instead of turning the outer shell of the torque conveter and driving the stator inside to transmit the power to the wheels the brake saver would hold the stator ring in place and drive the oil into the stator. This would cause lots of drag on the engine and slow the engine down. The problems with brakesavers are that they are HEAVY in the truck, required more oil in the engine to make it work, needed a way bigger oil cooler or in some applications they had their own oil cooler in the case of off highway trucks because they made a TON of heat in the engine oil due to the way that the brakesaver shears the oil in order to work, they leaked if not maintained, and made servicing things like the clutch way harder because the torque converter is in front of the Transmission so you had to pull the brake saver off in order to get to the clutch. Brake savers have pretty much went away unless you drive truck in mountainous regions or very heavy haul applications where you need the extra brakeing power. Like some commenters have said, Jake brake plus Cat brakesaver equals hardly ever stepping on the service brake pedal at all. Bad thing also is finding anyone who knows anything about the brakesavers anymore to work on them. The old hands are pretty much gone. I have been a Cat dealer tech for 25 years and I have only worked on two of them and that was years ago.
@@brucelee64485 Interesting. Thank you.
@@brucelee64485 Slight error, you do not have to pull Brakesaver to get to clutch. The inner flywheel has the ring gear for the starter. Has four allen head bolts to secure it to the stator. The outer flywheel is for your transmission clutch hook up. However if you had the transmission out and did not remove the Brakesaver and service it, shame on you. You have a piston type internal ring on each side. Also each side has a hydrodynamic seal to catch any linkage past the ring. The hsg housed the part that the ring runs against. That part is removable and has a seal on it. If worn, piston ring will not seal. So all of these needs to be inspected or replaced. You had to have two tools to hold the stator as you assembled it. The outer fixture was available through Cat. The inner tool is fabricated. When you are ready to install the hydrodynamic seals. I place the outer tool on first and lock the stator. Install the engine side hydrodynamic seal. Install the fabricated tool and may have to use washers or what ever to lock stator, and shim it flush. Then remove the outer fixture and install outer hydrodynamic seal. Reinstall outer fixture and remove inner fabricated tool. Install ring gear flywheel with mounting bolts Get at lease two very long studs to screw in crankshaft. Install Brakesaver, making sure you time it to the crankshaft dowel. Install the allen bolts that holds the Brakesaver to the rear hsg. Now you can remove the outer fixture and install clutch flywheel, leaving guide studs in. Start two bolts and snug. Now you can remove guide bolts and finish assembly.
I worked on a early 1693 Cat and the oil cooler for the Brakesaver was not mounted on the engine. It was near the front tandem, with oil lines and coolant lines connected to it. Changing the oil was a bear, as you had to loosen the oil lines to remove all the oil trapped in these lines.
In my diesel lecture a few months ago, my instructor was saying that semi truck manufacturers are experimenting with start stop technology on trucks and are integrating the Jake brakes to release the compression when the engine shuts off so the truck doesn’t shake and rattle every time the engine stops when you apply the brakes
You can push the clutch in when you shut it off and it won't rattle at all.
Brody not on an automatic
@@madjack1748
What about auto shifts?
I really don't care for an auto shift myself, but lots of drivers do like them .
I guess I'm just a dinosaur
@@bertgrau9246 Not sure, the rattling when you shut the truck off with an eaton fuller is from the trans, pushing the clutch halfway or all the way down disconnects the engine from trans so no rattle. As for automatics ya got me stumped, I don't think it hurts anything honestly.
@@madjack1748
SIR your probably correct with the auto shift, I know your CORRECT about the manual, the older Macks with the Mack transmission was the same way.
A few years ago I drove an Adolf Saurer truck that had a Jake brake and an eddy current retarder (on the drive shaft to the rear wheels) This truck was designed and built for Swiss Alpine use. The engine also had a Supercharger for the hugh altitude use.
Hi there, help me understand here, why small diesel sedans or some pickup trucks don't have exhaust brakes. at least when it comes to pick up trucks they weigh up to 3 tonnes, imagine them towing something, that number will be 4.5 tonnes which is like a small city truck. i think it should be necessary but they dont have engine brakes at all. Why?
Excellent description!
2017 f350 lariat it's my first diesel .1 month owner. I just don't want to break down . Does the exhaust break build alot of back preasure an cause the crank case an oil pan leak in yalls opinion. I bought the truck an next day started drippin oil. Then they replaced crank gasket,2nd oil pan gasket apologies for the dumb questions just tryin to understand so I don't fk up an have a costly repair from ignorance
Why not put the exhaust brake on the intake side? Or on both sides?
How quickly does that exhaust brake get caked in carbon, making it malfunction?
I saw a pickup truck with a camper one time, it was a diesel, but, supposedly it had a jake brake. I don't recall the exact model, I think it was an older Dodge.
[FCClan]The Stranger new ones have em on the 6.7 cummins
@@RDC_Autosports When did this start? The truck I saw was several years ago.
I do have to note, exhaust brakes do generate noise depending on the manufacturer of the engine, I know with a lot of the Cummins ISX15's that ran them the cooling fan would automatically kick on under stage 3 exhaust brakes, but it's tertiary noise.
A lot of engines do that. The fan uses up quite a bit of energy to run, so having the fan on adds to the retarding power of the engine brake system.
Wow very well explained! Thanks
Good video josh, keep videos like this coming.
We have a 3500 diesel 2004 chevy, hauling a on board Lance camper fully loaded 6500 lbs.. How should we drive it? Do we have to gear down?
And here I am with a factory installed Jacobs Vehicle Systems Exhaust Brake on my 5.9 Cummins confusing the shit outta people when I explain I have a Jake but, it's not mechanical 😁
A guy I know that has 20 Pete’s and all have 3 stage Jakes and he bought a new Dodge pick up and he said where’s the Jake and they sent his 5.9 cummins pick up to the Cummins shop and had a Jake put on it and it sounded great so I guess you can get it on 5.9 and I don’t remember what year but I do know it was a 5,9 before emissions so does that sound right ?
Hi Not sure if I have a Jake or an exhaust brake. I have 2003 Beaver Marquis with C12 cat engine. How can I find out which one is in my RV?
What if you want the exhaust break to be loud like the Jake break. Is that possible? I’m assuming no.
So when the compression brakes are active do the affected cylinders just repeat intake, compression, intake, compression strokes? There is no need for a combustion or exhaust stroke?
With compression brakes on, the cycle is intake, compression(release on combustion), compression again then intake and start over.
Does the automatic Alisson can handle a exhaust break? 2010 duramax lmm!