I’ve heard Rob Oberst of World’s Strongest Man talk about this before. He said he has to do his ice bath later in the day, several hours after training. Something about waiting those hours gives you the most of adaptation and recovery
Inflammation tells body to use resources in the inflammatory area (ie sore/broken muscles get body resources to heal and grow the muscle). Ice baths are anti inflammatory, so do em before training or at least 5 hours after to get that initial inflammatory response that triggers muscle growth and adaptation
The people involved with cold/cryotherapy research have been recommending waiting AT LEAST 4 hours after training before doing a cold water bath. They even suggest not doing cold therapy on days you train. They are also indicating it does not help with recovery or hypertrophy., but there are other health benefits to cold therapy.
@MyCommentsRMaturelol Checkout Dr Rhonda Patrick on TH-cam (FoundMyFitness). She is s scientist who does related research, but also interviews other scientists who do research in longevity, sauna, cryo...
@@gregd4391 Oh cool, I came across her for the micronutrient stuff. My issue is that I haven't been able to find sources for a lot of her claims (yet?). Always the issue with scientists rather than researchers, they have the potential to know way more, but there are so many quacks out there that I can't believe anything without seeing the evidence for myself. It gets even trickier when they're talking about textbook science where some things are clearly known but nuanced interpretations are crucial. At that point I have no way to verify anything lol
Huberman talks about this. Use cold exposure before training and well before sleeping. Heat exposure before bedtime will internally cool you down, prepping the body for sleep.
@@guntherwhite2043 Yes but that's partly because there isn't as much activity with your blood and such when there's ice. But because it slows everything, it takes longer for your body to heal that area because everything is slowed down
It slows the body’s natural ability to synthesize new protein cells to rebuild muscle after anabolic activity. Delaying your ice baths until later or the next day will aid in reducing inflammation and not interfere with muscular repair. I can’t remember what video I watched that went into this in length. Great watch. Very informative.
HalleluYah praise Yah for the blessing He sent to you and your family this day 11 years ago! May this blessing shine His light throughout all she puts her hands too
If youre looking for growth and hypertrophy, do not use an icebath immediately after. You can use heat instead to improve bloodflow to bring more nutrition to those areas. Rather, use an icebath when youre working technical skills where repeat sessions are needed but you need to keep inflammation at bay. But it is this inflammation that illicits the growth, provided they are within healthy amounts. This isnt to say dont do icebaths, just gap them from your workout. Cheers!
@@Karan-iy5mz prolly just do it before your workout or in the morning, we build muscle through repair, blood flow and inflammation, and a sufficient immune response are necessary, immediately after an injury, or microinjury, or workout there is a rush of blood to the relevant sites, let that do its magic, use ice baths/cold showers as a recovery measure instead perhaps
@@diamonddgz4148 I wouldn't say cap so much as inconclusive. Control could've been anywhere in relation to active recovery and ice bath. For all we know, both recovery types could be detrimental based on the study.
Let me start by saying you have a great channel and have helped me progress a lot through your videos. Ice baths are however to be done in the morning before anything. ice immediately after a training session is bad for a hypertrophy but if done 6 hours after we'll have no affect on hypertrophy. You are fast increasing platform of information. Altho this example is like saying "Deep stretching doesn't work increasing strength look at this study where a group of students deep stretches for an hour before squatts and deadlifts....." Ice baths are for morning you aren't icing your wounds to make them feel better you are utilising preexisting hormone and chemical relay systems to benefit your day to day life.
Good. Infrared would be even better since it penetrates even trough the skull but not everyone has those… Specially if one has some trauma or long-term damage like arthritis. Then it would be even better if it was used to warm up the joints before a workout, get the synovial fluid going and so on.
You are inflaming your muscles when you work out trying to stimulate growth. Ice baths are very anti-inflammatory. Definitely a good thing, but maybe not after you just spent two hours trying to get ripped. Give your body a while to enjoy the swole!
Could you make a video about visiting sauna right after training? I think that would be interesting to the vast majority of your subs Great content btw👍🏻
The timing is important, ice baths right after workout decreases gains but if you take ice baths after 4-6 hours after training it can increase muscle recovery
Maybe not needed for average gym goers But for people doing extreme stuff putting their joints, tendons and ligaments under a lot of stress need this to help avoid too much inflammation & injury.
In my experience, most sports that utilize ice baths only used them after a practice or intense speed training, where the focus is not muscle building.. But to recover quickly for another intense workout relatively soon after. Like 2-adays in football or track.. Have never heard of it being recommended/ used after weight training or power lifting.. When did that become a thing?
Unless it's a very long shower, cold showers aren't as extreme as ice baths, but I do agree warm showers are a relaxation period we really need sometimes. I try to take cold showers whenever I've had enough relaxation already and I feel like I'm not sick at all, because they're so good for that mental training and theyre rewarding afterwards
This isn’t a hard concept. Ice baths reduce inflammation and can repair damage done to the muscles while weight training is literally tearing down muscle so it can grow. Wait 4-6 hours after a lift or just do it before you lift and you’re golden.
I heard from randos that ice baths were for stimulating metabolism, improving one’s “brown fat” vs “white fat” ratio, and losing excess body fat quicker. Never heard anything about them being good for building muscle - which makes sense because building muscle involves _putting on_ more weight which is the opposite of what happens when you stimulate your metabolism
Most of the people I've heard discussing this argue that the pump or inflammation you experience during and post workout is your bodies natural recovery and ice baths interfere
You’re not supposed to do it within 4 hours after training. After training you do dry sauna or steam room to open up blood vessels and to reduce lactic acid. Cold plunges are to reduce inflammation and restrict the blood vessels which makes it harder for oxygen and protein from being distributed throughout your body
For athletes though the nervous system training needs to be included. Basically if you can train an athlete an extra day a week on skills because of ice baths then that needs to be factored in.
My guess is minimizing the inflammation response is the reason why they didn’t see as much improvement. Increased blood flow to the muscles after workout is essential for growth
Honestly curious how these studies are conducted and for how long. Seems like there’s so many factors outside of ice vs no ice that could effect one’s recovery levels/times.
well thats why you do them in the morning instead to really get going!! talk about a flush of blood everywhere when you get out! invigorating! plus the dopamine flood is real. But after workout? no thanks. To start the day- yes!!
Ice baths after a workout reminds me of putting raw, warm meat in a freezer. Not great for the end result so I would not do it for myself after I weight lift.
Well generally that's a plausible theory I will of course note that the active recovery will have certainly had a benefit I'd like to see a more specific case, where it was tested just they did the same thing one cold one not. This kind of test would give us a better idea of exactly how much of this can be attributed to the use of the cold bath versus having this added variable of steady state recovery.
I completely agree with you, I just wish to know what to tell people when they come up 'Cristiano ronaldo is doing it for years ' how would answer those people?
Nothing works forever. Eventually your body adapts. I watched something on a Table Talk with Dave Tate and Dr Mike Isratel. They talked about massage, sauna and steam rooms, contrast showers, hot tubs, cold tubs. Eventually your body will expect the treatment to aid in recovery. What I took away from it was use them once in a while for max efficiency or if you genuinely enjoy them, like sauna and hot tubs, do them as much as you want just realize they’re probably not helping you as much as they did when you first starting using them.
cold showers aren't as intensely cooling as ice baths, the temperature is higher and contact is much shorter, so don't worry they probably aren't affecting your gains
Also by what degree, percentage etc. because I love my cold showers I prefer not to give them up if the amount not gained is really statistically relevant.
I feel like this is kinda apples to oranges. A better comparison would be an ice bath vs nothing. It might not be that the ice bath hurt their gains, but the 10 minutes of cardio helped the other groups gains
I personally never understood why you'd want to restrict blood flow after exercise. Recovery is the process that actually makes muscles bigger. Good blood flow is a significant contributor to recovery... Seems like a no-brainer to me...
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I’ve heard Rob Oberst of World’s Strongest Man talk about this before. He said he has to do his ice bath later in the day, several hours after training. Something about waiting those hours gives you the most of adaptation and recovery
That might make sense because you don’t want to reduce inflammation right after a workout.
Inflammation tells body to use resources in the inflammatory area (ie sore/broken muscles get body resources to heal and grow the muscle). Ice baths are anti inflammatory, so do em before training or at least 5 hours after to get that initial inflammatory response that triggers muscle growth and adaptation
If robert oberst does it, it's probably not working
@@ipsojure2137 😂😂😂
@@thomaswinter1092 That makes sense. Seems like you might even slow your progress if you do it too soon.
The people involved with cold/cryotherapy research have been recommending waiting AT LEAST 4 hours after training before doing a cold water bath. They even suggest not doing cold therapy on days you train. They are also indicating it does not help with recovery or hypertrophy., but there are other health benefits to cold therapy.
Like what? Would love to see some studies
@MyCommentsRMaturelol
Checkout Dr Rhonda Patrick on TH-cam (FoundMyFitness). She is s scientist who does related research, but also interviews other scientists who do research in longevity, sauna, cryo...
@@gregd4391 Oh cool, I came across her for the micronutrient stuff. My issue is that I haven't been able to find sources for a lot of her claims (yet?). Always the issue with scientists rather than researchers, they have the potential to know way more, but there are so many quacks out there that I can't believe anything without seeing the evidence for myself. It gets even trickier when they're talking about textbook science where some things are clearly known but nuanced interpretations are crucial. At that point I have no way to verify anything lol
@@gregd4391 I take it all back. She has all the sources just in the videos not on the website where I looked lol
@MyCommentsRMaturelol yes, she does provide sources and she usually interviews the doing research so the technically ARE the source.
Huberman talks about this. Use cold exposure before training and well before sleeping. Heat exposure before bedtime will internally cool you down, prepping the body for sleep.
This is definitely true. It also applies to wound healing: putting ice on it slows down the healing process.
That's why there's cold and warmth added. Not just using ice but alternating for specific times
I thought ice decreased inflammation?
@@guntherwhite2043 Yes but that's partly because there isn't as much activity with your blood and such when there's ice. But because it slows everything, it takes longer for your body to heal that area because everything is slowed down
@@guntherwhite2043some inflammation is good
So do them when you first wake up. Then workout later in the day.
After a workout I have a Jack & Coke and just chew the ice.
What do you mean a jack
@@gigachad8676 pepperjack cheese
Jack Daniels and Cocaine is killing your gains
@@gigachad8676 jack daniels, whisky brand
I heard that’s how Ice is most effective
It slows the body’s natural ability to synthesize new protein cells to rebuild muscle after anabolic activity. Delaying your ice baths until later or the next day will aid in reducing inflammation and not interfere with muscular repair. I can’t remember what video I watched that went into this in length. Great watch. Very informative.
HalleluYah praise Yah for the blessing He sent to you and your family this day 11 years ago! May this blessing shine His light throughout all she puts her hands too
If youre looking for growth and hypertrophy, do not use an icebath immediately after. You can use heat instead to improve bloodflow to bring more nutrition to those areas. Rather, use an icebath when youre working technical skills where repeat sessions are needed but you need to keep inflammation at bay. But it is this inflammation that illicits the growth, provided they are within healthy amounts. This isnt to say dont do icebaths, just gap them from your workout. Cheers!
how much should be the gap approximately? I take cold shower 30 min after my workout.
@@Karan-iy5mz prolly just do it before your workout or in the morning, we build muscle through repair, blood flow and inflammation, and a sufficient immune response are necessary, immediately after an injury, or microinjury, or workout there is a rush of blood to the relevant sites, let that do its magic, use ice baths/cold showers as a recovery measure instead perhaps
Do it before a workout and you’ll preform much better.
Yeah I heard it’s better before a workout instead
You probably had one before you wrote this didn’t you?!😂
No control group that did nothing after training???
I was literally asking the same thing this study is complete cap without a control group.
@@diamonddgz4148 I wouldn't say cap so much as inconclusive. Control could've been anywhere in relation to active recovery and ice bath. For all we know, both recovery types could be detrimental based on the study.
Let me start by saying you have a great channel and have helped me progress a lot through your videos.
Ice baths are however to be done in the morning before anything. ice immediately after a training session is bad for a hypertrophy but if done 6 hours after we'll have no affect on hypertrophy. You are fast increasing platform of information. Altho this example is like saying "Deep stretching doesn't work increasing strength look at this study where a group of students deep stretches for an hour before squatts and deadlifts....." Ice baths are for morning you aren't icing your wounds to make them feel better you are utilising preexisting hormone and chemical relay systems to benefit your day to day life.
What about sauna after training?
Good. Infrared would be even better since it penetrates even trough the skull but not everyone has those…
Specially if one has some trauma or long-term damage like arthritis. Then it would be even better if it was used to warm up the joints before a workout, get the synovial fluid going and so on.
You are inflaming your muscles when you work out trying to stimulate growth. Ice baths are very anti-inflammatory. Definitely a good thing, but maybe not after you just spent two hours trying to get ripped. Give your body a while to enjoy the swole!
Could you make a video about visiting sauna right after training? I think that would be interesting to the vast majority of your subs
Great content btw👍🏻
Me with only cold water on my bathroom : u don't have any choice buddy 😙
Lol
Do it in the morning not after training
I believe it’s because they are doing it right after training
The timing is important, ice baths right after workout decreases gains but if you take ice baths after 4-6 hours after training it can increase muscle recovery
I agree, it makes sense. But I’d like to see some more studies as well.
Maybe not needed for average gym goers
But for people doing extreme stuff putting their joints, tendons and ligaments under a lot of stress need this to help avoid too much inflammation & injury.
In my experience, most sports that utilize ice baths only used them after a practice or intense speed training, where the focus is not muscle building.. But to recover quickly for another intense workout relatively soon after. Like 2-adays in football or track..
Have never heard of it being recommended/ used after weight training or power lifting.. When did that become a thing?
Everyone over a certain age knows it only takes a single decent run and you're sore the next day
ice in the morning for like 2-5min. Workout later.
This is why i take warm showers
Unless it's a very long shower, cold showers aren't as extreme as ice baths, but I do agree warm showers are a relaxation period we really need sometimes. I try to take cold showers whenever I've had enough relaxation already and I feel like I'm not sick at all, because they're so good for that mental training and theyre rewarding afterwards
@@spectrehubtrue🥶
@@spectrehub meh probably true, i feel like i exercise enough that i don't wanna have cold showers at all
This isn’t a hard concept. Ice baths reduce inflammation and can repair damage done to the muscles while weight training is literally tearing down muscle so it can grow. Wait 4-6 hours after a lift or just do it before you lift and you’re golden.
What about a control with neither a bike or ice bath?….
MMA fighters, boxers, and other athletes do this all the time. Most of them are shredded and strong. It’s more for recovery.
Its a traditional thing that they think will actually aid their recovery but in fact it wont. They're just illiterate in that subject
I heard from randos that ice baths were for stimulating metabolism, improving one’s “brown fat” vs “white fat” ratio, and losing excess body fat quicker. Never heard anything about them being good for building muscle - which makes sense because building muscle involves _putting on_ more weight which is the opposite of what happens when you stimulate your metabolism
Warm bath later in the evening is much more superior
Nobody talking about how dude man plans to get out of that ice bath 😂
Garbage day
thats what i was thinking lmao
Thanks for spreading this info. Just wrote my first college research paper about Cold Water Immersion.
I never took an ice bath but do take cold showers. I never do these directly after working out. I only do them a couple of hours later.
Derp. The last thing you want directly after training is have all the nutrients rushing out of the worked muscles.
Most of the people I've heard discussing this argue that the pump or inflammation you experience during and post workout is your bodies natural recovery and ice baths interfere
I don't want to reduce inflammation, because inflammation is the response to the stress I induced from my training and it is building my body stronger
I take cold showers in the morning sometimes right before training.
Coldness reduces inflammation. But in the case of weightlifting inflammation is a good thing.
I wish they did a counter study as to ice bathing before working out
You’re not supposed to do it within 4 hours after training. After training you do dry sauna or steam room to open up blood vessels and to reduce lactic acid. Cold plunges are to reduce inflammation and restrict the blood vessels which makes it harder for oxygen and protein from being distributed throughout your body
but Arnold Schwartzenegger played Mr Freeze in Batman and Robin ?
I have found success doing 4 hours post training very hot salt bath finished with cold water exposure over the past year.
Everything has pros and cons and we need to make educated decisions on the choices we encounter.
Coach Greg would probably agree
I never worked out for size, but strength is another matter. They may not be optimal, but boy do they make you feel great after.
wait... so the people who did extra training, got more benefit from training? curious
Read somewhere that ice baths or cold showers reduces inflammation but not all inflammation is bad. Inflammation in muscle cells is what builds muscle
For athletes though the nervous system training needs to be included. Basically if you can train an athlete an extra day a week on skills because of ice baths then that needs to be factored in.
Hey mate, Love your videos.
Best to do before training. After training sauna is the best for recovery
I do my ice baths about 15 minutes before training =D
No control group???? How do we know active recovery+icebath isn't better than just doing active recovery?
Yep. Without a control these results don't really help us know how ice bath compared to normal passive recovery
That’s because you’re doing it directly after exercise when you need the inflammation. Do it before.
How does active recovery on the bike compare to just getting changed and going home?
And that’s why you should wait up to 4 hours after training before taking an ice bath
My guess is minimizing the inflammation response is the reason why they didn’t see as much improvement. Increased blood flow to the muscles after workout is essential for growth
Yes , vasoconstriction reduces blood flow. Its an absolute logical no brainer. I'm surprised how popular this ice bath bullshit remains.
Honestly curious how these studies are conducted and for how long. Seems like there’s so many factors outside of ice vs no ice that could effect one’s recovery levels/times.
well thats why you do them in the morning instead to really get going!! talk about a flush of blood everywhere when you get out! invigorating! plus the dopamine flood is real. But after workout? no thanks. To start the day- yes!!
thats why they doing it before training.
Ice baths after a workout reminds me of putting raw, warm meat in a freezer. Not great for the end result so I would not do it for myself after I weight lift.
Well generally that's a plausible theory I will of course note that the active recovery will have certainly had a benefit I'd like to see a more specific case, where it was tested just they did the same thing one cold one not.
This kind of test would give us a better idea of exactly how much of this can be attributed to the use of the cold bath versus having this added variable of steady state recovery.
I completely agree with you, I just wish to know what to tell people when they come up 'Cristiano ronaldo is doing it for years ' how would answer those people?
Could the active recovery on the bike have helped with building muscle or increasing satellite cells? 🤨
Yea I feel as though they should have had just a regular control group as well, they probably did but maybe he didnt mention it?
What about saunas/steam rooms and warm/hot baths?
Nothing works forever. Eventually your body adapts. I watched something on a Table Talk with Dave Tate and Dr Mike Isratel. They talked about massage, sauna and steam rooms, contrast showers, hot tubs, cold tubs. Eventually your body will expect the treatment to aid in recovery. What I took away from it was use them once in a while for max efficiency or if you genuinely enjoy them, like sauna and hot tubs, do them as much as you want just realize they’re probably not helping you as much as they did when you first starting using them.
Inflammation is good it helps you recover
NFL players who use ice baths on the reg have longer careers than those who don't. just ask Ray Lewis
It's also only equivalent to active recovery for recovery and I cant find any evidence of it helping with dopamine like huberman talks about
Studies showing do pre workout to negate this effect
I don't think most people who do ice baths, don't do them after training, and more for health benefits.
The inflammation of the muscles is what provides the stimulus to grow
Dude is going extreme.
My cold showers are killing my gains? 😭😭
cold showers aren't as intensely cooling as ice baths, the temperature is higher and contact is much shorter, so don't worry they probably aren't affecting your gains
Actually, cold kills are showering your gains
Doesn't seem conclusive enough to make an inference from the study like that, could easily be other factors which produced the results.
No way the group that had more workout time, got stronger😳
I haven't heard a single person say an ice bath helps with muscle strength and size.
But this mean that if it's not optimal for size and strength it's not optimal for recovery, and a lot of people use it for recovery.
Also by what degree, percentage etc. because I love my cold showers I prefer not to give them up if the amount not gained is really statistically relevant.
Well yeah doing it right after training would probably mess with your pump.
The trick is to do cold plunge before training. It will increase testosterone and dopamine like no other.
Also don't put your head underwater and ice baths It can actually give you permanent nerve damage in your face.
Ice bath inventor: about that….
Hmmm I wonder why the people who kept on working out n cardio on the bike saw more results than those who took a bath
Do you know if there is any benefit for muscular endurance by taking an ice bath after a run?
Did anyone really think ice baths were supposed to increase muscle size? Wouldn’t it be more relevant to compare injury prevention and recovery?
Does this count for a cold shower too?🤔
I feel like this is kinda apples to oranges. A better comparison would be an ice bath vs nothing. It might not be that the ice bath hurt their gains, but the 10 minutes of cardio helped the other groups gains
what if i do them before training
So your saying cardio doesn’t kill you gains???
Do ice baths help physically at anything at all?
His recovery was...trash
i don't care what people said ice baths are bullsh*t
That's why you don't do it right out of training
Key Word “after” training… What about before 🤔
What about just a cold shower ?
Damn I been doin it wrong then.
I personally never understood why you'd want to restrict blood flow after exercise. Recovery is the process that actually makes muscles bigger. Good blood flow is a significant contributor to recovery... Seems like a no-brainer to me...
What about first thing in the morning?
Good way to get out of ice baths.
yeah instead of doing them after an exersice, do them before.
There's always one 🙄 he looks so chuffed.
"One" study from 2015. Ok, got it.
what about a 5 minute cold shower every day. not after training, of course.