It could be argued that the reason Thriller has sold 70 million copies is due to changes in consumer habits and the ability to continue to market the album through each new era.
1. New music has to compete with old music. Shock jock Howard Stern once said he had 10,000 records at his home and said he couldn't listen to them all. At some people people will be satisfied with the number of albums they have and will buy fewer or any new albums. On a side note, used records are not counted as new music. I might have paid money and bought the album Thriller yet it won't count as a sale. 2. Billboard runs the Hot 100 and Billboard 200 charts and it's information defines what pop music is. However, its sources are limited to a few labels. Right now Afrobeats is a popular style right now and labels are even dropping hip hop acts for afrobeats acts. K-pop and J-pop are popular in the U.S. None of these trends show up until the major labels sign these types of acts. 3. The internet has spread out what people can listen to. Back in the 1980s and 1990s, everyone was glued to MTV. Before that, people would be glued to various radio stations. Labels would even hire influencers to call radio stations to request songs put out by the labels. 4. Piracy killed the incentive for the labels to spend time and money into music. Back in the 1990s, MTV interviewed label reps and those label reps said they would not sign new rock acts because of all the piracy by rock listeners. At the time Jay-Z was the most pirated artist and still did well for himself. Poorer quality music and lack of advertisements have led to less buyers. 5. The talented ones have heard horror stories about major labels and have either went to smaller labels, their own label or no label. These talented artists might be getting the money, but since they aren't on a major label, their sales don't get counted. 6. Padding album sales was a thing. Depending on who you ask, Thriller sold 70 million to 120 million copies. Labels were known to buy their own albums to get on the Billboard 200 and even rank number one. It's possible that the difference between then and now is much narrower that the official numbers. 7. What is a sale? Sometimes the numbers sold was from the label to the outside vendor and not what the vendor sold. Billboard was known to call certain vendors and ask for the numbers, but vendors could lie and Billboard didn't call every vendor so the same math used for polling was used to determine album sales.
No offence but it's absurd to say Adele is not a popstar, just because they make pop-ballad, pop-soul music doesn't mean they're not. (same as Mariah Carey & Celine Dion) Don't forget pop is a shortened term for popular music.
What's your rationale, though? I'm curious. 90s pop, for example, was massively driven by this pop-ballad category. Mariah, Celine, Whitney, Toni, etc. If a categorization limits a better understanding of pop's trajectory, then isn't it worth revisiting these 'rules' of what makes a pop star? Fuckin' amazing work, in general. I love your vids. @@economicsofentertainment
the classification of Adele as "not pop" is pretty arbitrary when in reality she was massively influential to the musical landscape in the years following 21.
Pop is an amorphous genre. Whatever music is popular at the time becomes part of the Pop cultural zeitgeist. So if Adele’s brand of 1960’s Pop and blue-eyed soul becomes ubiquitously commercially popular, it _is_ Pop music, and it’s near impossible to argue that it isn’t. You seem to want to die on the hill that because Adele does not have the *aesthetic* of a modern popstar that she cannot be classified as such, which with respect, speaks more to your limited view of what pop music can be, than it does about the music itself and it’s cultural resonance. 😅
Good point but I’ll have to agree to disagree. We will soon be entering the realm of everything being pop. But then if everything is pop, nothing is pop……..
@@economicsofentertainment because Pop has always been an amalgamation of multiple genres, it’s never really been a genre but rather a commercial appeal (as well how something is packaged and marketed - which has a lot less to do with music). If Pop were a Pokemon it would be Ditto. 🤣 It’s a faceless and constantly shapeshifting genre that borrows from trends surrounding it. RocknRoll _was_ pop music. Pop music in the 50 is Elvis, in the 70’s it’s Elton, in the 80s it’s Mj, in the 90’s it’s Britney, and in the 20’s Pop today is Taylor, Billie, Lizzo, Doja Cat, Lil Nas X, The Weeknd, Harry Styles etc. There’s no consistency there. They’re all Pop while being nothing alike. Genre hybridity in the internet age reveals how hollow these arguments on genre have become. The pigeonholing is more about marketing/branding then it is about the music
How does number of copies sold compare with number of streams? Also it was easier to get your hands on pop CDs back then. Now I can as easily stream other and new genres.
Going back as far as the eightys its been in decline follow the money record labels just want a quick turn over there not worried about what's good or bad rytham and blues rock and roll to much country music now fans of these girlie pop stars are ripping fans off with there high ticket prices poor young teenagers can't afford let's not forget many of thes pop girls are brought up with rich family's there are many talented young musicians who can never make it through because they don't have wealthy familys
No one can do it like MJ!
Ain’t that the truth!
(Video killed the radio star) - Rap killed the pop star
Good comment
Music has massively diversified out and it's harder to stand out nowadays because everyone is looking for their quick 15 seconds of fame.
Couldn’t have been more accurate with your statement!
It could be argued that the reason Thriller has sold 70 million copies is due to changes in consumer habits and the ability to continue to market the album through each new era.
Well said!
1. New music has to compete with old music. Shock jock Howard Stern once said he had 10,000 records at his home and said he couldn't listen to them all. At some people people will be satisfied with the number of albums they have and will buy fewer or any new albums. On a side note, used records are not counted as new music. I might have paid money and bought the album Thriller yet it won't count as a sale.
2. Billboard runs the Hot 100 and Billboard 200 charts and it's information defines what pop music is. However, its sources are limited to a few labels. Right now Afrobeats is a popular style right now and labels are even dropping hip hop acts for afrobeats acts. K-pop and J-pop are popular in the U.S. None of these trends show up until the major labels sign these types of acts.
3. The internet has spread out what people can listen to. Back in the 1980s and 1990s, everyone was glued to MTV. Before that, people would be glued to various radio stations. Labels would even hire influencers to call radio stations to request songs put out by the labels.
4. Piracy killed the incentive for the labels to spend time and money into music. Back in the 1990s, MTV interviewed label reps and those label reps said they would not sign new rock acts because of all the piracy by rock listeners. At the time Jay-Z was the most pirated artist and still did well for himself. Poorer quality music and lack of advertisements have led to less buyers.
5. The talented ones have heard horror stories about major labels and have either went to smaller labels, their own label or no label. These talented artists might be getting the money, but since they aren't on a major label, their sales don't get counted.
6. Padding album sales was a thing. Depending on who you ask, Thriller sold 70 million to 120 million copies. Labels were known to buy their own albums to get on the Billboard 200 and even rank number one. It's possible that the difference between then and now is much narrower that the official numbers.
7. What is a sale? Sometimes the numbers sold was from the label to the outside vendor and not what the vendor sold. Billboard was known to call certain vendors and ask for the numbers, but vendors could lie and Billboard didn't call every vendor so the same math used for polling was used to determine album sales.
Some very good points here!
"ask me why so many fade, but I'm still here"
🕺🏽
To be honest, Taylor Swift is the only current pop artist from pure sales era who has consistent sales while gaining streams at the same time.
Great point!
No offence but it's absurd to say Adele is not a popstar, just because they make pop-ballad, pop-soul music doesn't mean they're not. (same as Mariah Carey & Celine Dion) Don't forget pop is a shortened term for popular music.
Glad you feel so strongly about this. But I have to disagree. I guess this is the beauty of music, nearly everything is subjective.
What's your rationale, though? I'm curious.
90s pop, for example, was massively driven by this pop-ballad category. Mariah, Celine, Whitney, Toni, etc. If a categorization limits a better understanding of pop's trajectory, then isn't it worth revisiting these 'rules' of what makes a pop star? Fuckin' amazing work, in general. I love your vids. @@economicsofentertainment
the classification of Adele as "not pop" is pretty arbitrary when in reality she was massively influential to the musical landscape in the years following 21.
Okay 👍
Pop is an amorphous genre. Whatever music is popular at the time becomes part of the Pop cultural zeitgeist. So if Adele’s brand of 1960’s Pop and blue-eyed soul becomes ubiquitously commercially popular, it _is_ Pop music, and it’s near impossible to argue that it isn’t.
You seem to want to die on the hill that because Adele does not have the *aesthetic* of a modern popstar that she cannot be classified as such, which with respect, speaks more to your limited view of what pop music can be, than it does about the music itself and it’s cultural resonance. 😅
Good point but I’ll have to agree to disagree. We will soon be entering the realm of everything being pop. But then if everything is pop, nothing is pop……..
@@economicsofentertainment because Pop has always been an amalgamation of multiple genres, it’s never really been a genre but rather a commercial appeal (as well how something is packaged and marketed - which has a lot less to do with music). If Pop were a Pokemon it would be Ditto. 🤣 It’s a faceless and constantly shapeshifting genre that borrows from trends surrounding it.
RocknRoll _was_ pop music. Pop music in the 50 is Elvis, in the 70’s it’s Elton, in the 80s it’s Mj, in the 90’s it’s Britney, and in the 20’s Pop today is Taylor, Billie, Lizzo, Doja Cat, Lil Nas X, The Weeknd, Harry Styles etc. There’s no consistency there. They’re all Pop while being nothing alike. Genre hybridity in the internet age reveals how hollow these arguments on genre have become. The pigeonholing is more about marketing/branding then it is about the music
I like that, if pop were Pokémon quote, I’m going to steal this one!
@@economicsofentertainment 😂 😂
Why did you look down on Whitney's album Bodyguard which sold more than Backstreet Boys' and Shania Twain in the 90s?
I didn’t look down on it. I mentioned it in part 1 but noted that it wasn’t considered pop.
Adele we love you!
She’s a legend!
Yeah. She’s one of the few artists who debuted in 1999 or later (she came out with her first album in 2008-ish) that I actually like.
How does number of copies sold compare with number of streams? Also it was easier to get your hands on pop CDs back then. Now I can as easily stream other and new genres.
We will discuss this topic at greater length in a future video. Watch out!
Very interesting and informative 👍🏼 keep it coming ❤
More to come!
I am your number one fan ❤
Thank you!!!!!
Going back as far as the eightys its been in decline follow the money record labels just want a quick turn over there not worried about what's good or bad rytham and blues rock and roll to much country music now fans of these girlie pop stars are ripping fans off with there high ticket prices poor young teenagers can't afford let's not forget many of thes pop girls are brought up with rich family's there are many talented young musicians who can never make it through because they don't have wealthy familys
Very good point, appreciate the comment.
Very good point, appreciate the comment.
Great ❤
Much appreciated!
MJ needs to come out of hiding
Yeah I heard he is in Lagos Nigeria