Skaven are fairly bad. Having them in a "strong" slot is honestly pushing it. I know there are a lot of people who like them, but they just aren't that good. Armies and economy are just lackluster. Every faction can steamroll, and they don't really do it harder than the better ones.
@@ethanwilliams1880 I don't even know what to say but i'll try: Undercities: infinite money, infinite food, spread faster than bubonic plague, accelerate research rate, raze settlements from across the map, make 20 stacks from across the map. Armies: second best ranged roster in the game (tied for best with clan skryre), warplock jezzails delete large and armor to the point where artillery is downright irrelevant, and poisoned wind mortars (which btw can flee at the same speed as any other weapons team) turn anything that isn't a war machine, monster, or cav into slag regardless of armor from insane range. Also almost every building produces income so it's harder to have a bad economy than a good one.
@@PacmanPac-m8y All factions are good once they've started to ramp up. Skaven are bad because their ramp time is too long, and their early units are beyond garbage. In wh2 they were much better, thanks to an overall slower game, and to some exploits that don't work as well in wh3. Undercities aren't very useful unless you like to turtle, or are trying to have an outpost far away. The quality of their ranged roster is debatable. Their artillery is on par with brettonia, and their gunner units aren't any better than empire/dwarf/kislev equivalents, with the exception of ratling guns.
@@ethanwilliams1880 undercities spread faster than whatever disease spread throughout your brain to ignore the fact that the power of the skaven starts high and ends in the stars. Undercities in my experience almost never get destroyed by the ai and so can provide infinite money and food. And also the economy is extremely powerful because of the fact that nearly all buildings make money. I don't think you have even played the skaven for more than 20 minutes. Also poisoned wind mortars are top 2 ranged units in the game.
@@ethanwilliams1880you have definitely not played skaven. They literally start with their good units and ikit can recruit more from the very beginning. They can get to tier 5 in 8 turns. The quality of their ranged army is not debatable at all lol, jezzails, rattling guns, poisoned wind mortars. They outclass bretonnia, the dwarfs and the empire in ranged combat to ridiculous degree. What are you smoking?
Tzeetch (kairos) is a surprisingly rich faction stacking + 45% income per province building with resources buildings + 40% you can get really really high income, also tzeech (changeling) is invincible unless you purposefully throw the campaign
Yeah, maybe Tzeentch is just my personal preference, but when ever I play Kairos I just find it hard to expand or field armies, and comparing his campaign to anyone above him, he just feels so bad. Also I consider the Changeling a cheat code so I didn't take him into consideration.
Yeah also changing of the ways are broken. Make a war with a faction even the strongest one, take one province and force peace of them. They will not make war on you even after 10 turns. Halt army and double move is also very great. Only thing that is useless is break alliance since its too expensive
@@CultistOfkhorne I've conquered the whole southern half of the map on IE with Kairos only using pink horrors the flamers line and heroes. They get crazy economy though it takes a bit to build up. The changing of ways is pretty powerful and there are some cheesy strategies that can be done with it like stealing a settlement and trading it back for a large sum of money or an alliance. You can declare war snipe a province and then force peace before the AI can retaliate. Halt army and the double movement are also really strong allowing you to catch enemies out of position or run into a dangerous area and then nope on out of there back to safety. Plus the teleport stance is a free ambush battle.
@@CultistOfkhorne mate fr khorne is ass and in the hands of the ai he gets absolutely destroyed i think he is cool but this is just you very biased opinion (not cooking with this one ) you are even named cultist of khorne !!!LIKE WHAT A HELL YOU SAY lol
@@CultistOfkhorne I agree that early game tzeentch is very hard, surrounded by those armored lizards. Pink and blue horrors deals like no damage at all. They force like every neighbour go to war with you unless you bribe them.
As a Daniel main myself, you did him justice. He may deserve a bottom tier all to himself (along with maybe Kugath but I haven't played Kugath). His buildings make no sense. Most of his Chaos-gifted equipment makes no sense. His campaign is only survivable because you can get +30 diplomacy with his Chaos/Norsca neighbors.
Try play him in SFO. Demons are much more formidable combatants, and I had Lords and heroes at lvl 20 in 3-4 turns with Daniel, his faction gains so much passive xp per turn.
@@Grivehn Hm thanks for the recommendation but that does sound kind of unchallenging. I like playing weak factions! My issue with vanilla Daniel is that so many of his 'options' in citybuilding and personal loadout turn out to be fake because the internal balance is so thoughtless.
@@Nikolas5842 1. Thats for lategame anyway, requires a considerable amount of built up territory under your belt and beyond turn100 waiting for your greater demons to get first transformation, then immortality, so 30ish levels, then another 30 is a process most people never even get to see, since they dont play that long. 2. I'll never understand whats people's obsession with wanting to be weak in a single player game. Suffer and complain, then. What do I care. I just sought if I can make him a more fun experience for others, since demonic crumbling sucks balls in vanilla and is slowed down for SFO like for undead.
Honestly, solution for rats - just don't recruit their melee infantry. Just don't. Weapons team doomstacks can deal with most enemies that AI can produce. So with that in mind, i would put skaven much higher, around HE. But i pretty much agree with everything else that you said
personally i see 0 reason to ever play skaven in warhammer 3 bc of how much better and more fun they are in wh2 but yeah theyre definitely still super strong
Having few weapon team doomstacks was good for Warhammer 2, but for Warhammer 3 horde tactics are better, and the Skaven can't compete there, unless they get some changes to their food economy. But yeah, I also prefer playing them in Warhammer 2 than 3.
yep, melee skaven is pretty much useless, can't hold the line properly.Will break leadership like in 1 cavalry charge. Maybe skavenslaves for suicide strategy with the wind globadier. But I think skaven can dominate early game by abusing the food mechanics, get tier IV or 5 settlement instantly.
While I generally agree with your assessment of the Wood Elves, Orion can go incredibly hard with the upkeep cost reduction he gets from being in multiple wars.
I would add that wood elfs have one of the strongest unit rosters, and tree kins are possibly the strongest early game doomstack that can work as a late game doomstack.
Diplomacy plays a large role which is not considered here, the empire gets the order tide and surrounded by allies whereas skaven or chaos dwarfes get piled on by everyone. This plays into how you construct your armies (spamming/doom stacking). The empire/lizardmen can therefore afford fewer armies whereas skaven and chaos dwarfes(early game) are forced to spam worse armies to deal with more threats.
Well, I actually did, as the more enemies the chaos factions have, even neutral factions, the better they perform. More battles means more income, labor, food, canopic jars, souls etc. Kislev for example I would have ranked much lower if they couldn't just confederate all of the other Kislevites very quickly. Similar to Bretonia and High Elves, just look at where I put the Empire who has a rather poor confederation mechanic and the Dwarfs who are too stubborn to confederate.
@@CultistOfkhorne fair enouth, as warhammer 3 is far more generous with being in several wars at a time. But factions who needs to build up provinces will suffer if left undefended, chaos dwarfes benefits greatly by large amounts of combat but being sandwiched between agreesive factions (drazhoath) leads to a two/three front war slowing progress.
Well, I didn't really make this as a fun ranking, as it would be a bit different, but if you haven't already I would definitely advise you to play Skarbrand :D
Ngl I think Slaanesh should be higher for a few reasons, the biggest reason for me personally is the summoned armies the thing is they don't count against your supply lines (last I checked) and if you keep them at home they never expire to attrition meaning you can build massive free doomstacks of defenders at every settlement (1 free army per province per 10 turns) which over the course of a game is a lot of armies that make fighting you an absolute pain, alternatively throw them into any threat you don't want your non-free troops to take so you can horde tactic through an entire faction (throwing several 4 stacks at every settlement/army feels great) the second thing that makes them great is the cults, the ability to jump continents (for free if you wait a bit) and then just summon armies or start building to a force vassalization is amazing, also you can detach a cultist from your main force and summon armies at whatever settlement you might need help with (just in case you couldn't use the ones at home for some reason) third N'Kari is a super fun doomstack (personal preference there ig) that gets insane charge bonuses (and the ability to negate charge reflection with built in rampage aura) and can decimate most units on 1 or 2 cycle charges (yes I have soloed entire 20 stacks with N'Kari) as well as an insane melee defense (over 100 once you build into it) also N'kari is FAST with their perks getting them to 150+ speed easily. basically N'kari is a super chariot and should be played as one (not as a spellcaster) As far as the unit cost thing you need a lord in you territory at all times anyways for summoning disciple armies and Slaanesh gets some pretty decent unit cost reduction perks (you only need tier 1/2 infantry which is cheap cause the summoned army is based on the summoning armies size and not on its units), but if you felt good about your economy don't worry cause N'kari has some fairly easy access to stealing the sword of khaine so you can doomstack them even more. Also diplomacy + mark of Slaanesh cheese is amazing (with research to boost it even more) because if you make sure the last settlement you conquer is a minor settlement you don't care about the legendary lord (who should have mark of slaanesh) will just sit there giving you free devotees (and corruption) every turn (make sure to force vassalize when the faction would be defeated) and you can then get all that plus armies (even if bad) that will help defend your territory (cause vassals are defensive) can never leave you and will let you recruit all their fun units + they give you ok amounts of income because of N'kari's doubled income from vassals thing, also N'kari can 'resurrect' factions as her vassals. Yes if it's not obvious I am a huge Slaanesh fan, sorry for the rant...
Nah I like the rant, but I already took all of that into consideration. I might not show it, but I did play quite a few Slaanesh campaigns, and I put them quite high in my opinion, the races that are above them ether have more/better tools to use or just a much easier time conquering the map. I would have put every little detail as to why I ranked them as I did into the video, but it would make it a few hours long.
As a dwarf main, I agree. Like it’s make scene to make their building high because dwarf want to build high, not wide. But the buildings just gives no output for that cost( Also due to the weaker garrisons and new sieges the defensive capabilities of short kings is really low now. This is sad. I want to lore-friendly defend my impenetrable keeps from swarms of greenskins, not sitting there trying to afford tier 3 gold mine with no income while no one is trying to attack me, because AI :
I liked the vid, definitely agreed with most of your takes. I personally would move Vampire Counts and Norsca down a bit and move Skaven, Lizardmen, and Tzeench up a bit after playing them all pretty recently. The Changing of Ways can be really strong imo, especially halt army and force peace which can essentially let you fight as few or as many wars once unlocked and upgraded, plus barriers and good magic are pretty strong after awhile. A lot of things are subjective though for sure, keep up the vids!
Saurus warriors and temple guard should be buffed and moved up a recruitment tier imo. In the lore there's no infantry other than like, chosen or maybe black orks, who should be able to fight them on even footing
I recently played a Dwarf campaign and what you said is mostly true. Thorgrim, and maybe Ungrim, have excellent starting locations in which once they confederate each other and secure their surrounding mountain provinces its pretty much a snowball from there. The only factions you have to worry about are The Bloody Handz, Disciples of the Maw, and Clan Mors mainly because early game they have the upper hand 100% of the time in 1v1 battles. My campaign goal was to retake the entirety of the Karaz Ankor and then take back the Dwarven Colonies/Mend the Race Divide (Chaos Dwarves, Lustria, Ogres, Norsca, and maybe Cathay) and by turn 75 I had wiped out my starting enemies and controlled the old world portion of the world's edge mountains and was eyeing up certain Order factions that had taken my rightful clay. imo the Dwarf campaign would be much better if 75% of the faction wasn't just generic lords (I was using Mixu's legendary lords and recruit refugees) and if they somehow implemented the rebuilding the underways mod (I was making almost 10k from Karaz-a-karak near the end of my campaign).
Tzeentch is strong af. You stop armies every 2 turns for almost free, you force peace every 3 turns for almost free, you spam spellcasters which destroy armies in their entirety, the Blue Scribes can convert a weak army to a 'doomstack' since they spam spells for a very low cost, they have the barrier mechanic which makes skirmishing cav, charging cav and infantry regenerate infinitely for free and the economy is surprisingly strong. You can get 3k or so income per maxed province. The teleport stance guarantees you an ambush battle and you can get a research which makes it free and the army abilities are by far the strongest out of all the daemon factions. More winds of magic, bolt that erases low armour units and a barrage which can be used as an area of denial or to, again, erase multiple stacked units. (The Changeling is not included in my evaluation since he is the worst designed LL CA made. You get free campaigns with almost free armies in the Changeling's region. I think he has the strongest faction ingame but the least fun) Kairos' start is hard if you don't know what to do and easy if you do. You can get a strong vassal almost for free, you just capture Rapturous Excess' capital and trade it for vassalage and now you get access to slaaneshi units too. Ever since the SoC DLC (which i got for free from a friend) i have enjoyed Kairos even more, since the Centigors are absolutely insane. They allowed me to destroy the Lizardmen's Kroxigors, Salamanders, Razordons and even the Cold One Riders. Tzeentch is so different from Khorne, so I understand why you find him so weak, but i wholeheartedly disagree :))) Great video tho
@@coaiemandushman1079 well its fairly close, and you can rasily beat nurgle, its the riches province for you that i found in game, second is your starting at 6k
I had to go back to the intro to remind myself of your rating reasoning. I would have to agree with you, the whole min maxing mentality of playing on Legendary difficulty requires you to start fast and start expanding quickly. I do think however that these ratings would change fairly drastically if you were to play on Very Hard or lower. Primarily I think Legendary ramps up the AI aggression too much, potential allies can become enemies quickly with the minus to diplomacy. The game basically requires you to be self sustaining and good at growing quickly. This is what I think has informed your decisions the most and why people are disagreeing with you. Empire's strength is actually really good if you focus diplomacy, even on Legendary being able to get trade deals and target enemies of potential allies can get you to side with very strong nations, or at least buffers for your growth. They also pay you for trade goods, which can make you a decent amount of cash and work well as a way to get a faction to like you. Diplomacy is a good chunk of this game as it can allow you get get breathing room and focus on the targets that aren't going to ally with you. I also don't think you probably make good use of campaign effects, as you ranked Tzeentch and the Skaven clans so low. Nurgle also benefits largely from spreading plagues, and debuffing enemy settlements and armies while benefiting your own he also is a defensive faction, pushes slowly, needs time to build his poxes. That doesn't mean the faction is bad necessarily you just need to make sure you don't over expand. I think Legendary can also strip theme from factions, and forces you to shoehorn factions that don't play fast into a fast playstyle. Wood Elves are actually a powerful faction, but they are a themed faction, your goal is to tend to the forests, and you don't have much care of the outside world. When focusing only working on the forests, you can get really strong. But Legendary's AI aggression makes this difficult. Vampire Coast makes a lot of its money from Pirate Coves, placed well, and sacking the hell out of everything. In fact practically all evil factions make their money from killing things, sacking, raiding, etc. So their economies do suck but they also make stupid money when post loot and sacking is leveled. A lot of your criticisms of races on the lower tier are that they don't get going fast. This really throttles a lot of other factions as they aren't all built for that. For example, Tomb Kings are slow because they are what inspired the Necrons, the whole slowly waking up. They are good late game but aren't an expansion faction, you keep to the desert until you build up as that's where almost everything you need is at. Ultimately my point is I think the game shines at lower difficulties, you are able to experiment and try doing things differently from how you are used to. You can allow yourself to immerse in the faction theme and ideas, to roleplay a little or a lot. Striking a balance between difficulty and fun is something I realized as I have gotten older is way more enjoyable than trying to beat the game's hardest level.
I honestly appreciate the time you took the time to micro analyze all of that, and I know I put Tzeench too low, Skaven probably as well, but this ranking would be the same on lower difficulties as well. On lower difficulties, it would maybe make empire a bit stronger, as the elector counts wouldn't die as fast, but Skaven and Tomb Kings would fight less battles and would take a lot longer to develop. I didn't just rank them based on how quickly they can get going, as if I did High Elves would be lower down, and I know the Wood Elves are a themed campaign, which is why I ranked them so high, as if I didn't take that into consideration I would have ranked them lower than empire and dawi.
@@CultistOfkhorne Hey thanks! I was hoping to do more of a light critique of your video summarized as "More to a faction's strength then how good they are at attacking and expanding" but most of it was my opinion on Legendary changing the game for worse. I think I would still disagree with you about the ranking but ultimately it doesn't matter all that much. Wish you the best for your continued growth.
I agree I'd put Vampire Coast even lower god I rage quit their campaign more than I can count. I hope The Empire will get some love, also despite Vamps being high on the list their gameplay feels outdated and bland.
Honestly I think the beastmen deserve higher, the absolutely 0 commitment required to anything that you're doing is imo one of the best things you can have, you basically just decide "I'm going to dick with this faction now" and you can just trot on over there and do it with almost 0 consequences. Plus, a healthy number of Ungor raiders focus firing with their own movement speed lets you punch way above your weight class. Personally I prefer their gameplay to even skarbrand, as an avid khorne enjoyer, but there's obviously no way the beastmen get even close to that level of potential power
Tbh the beastmen are very overrated to me, a lot of the time your neighbors will declare war on you and just b line straight to your herdstones and take them before you can complete a ritual, forcing you to keep going back and forth making no progress. And you basically have only one good army for the most part, your armies are trash until you dedicate dread to unit caps.
@@indrickboreale7381 No they aren’t. Not on legendary difficulty. And definitely not in the early-mid game when you can’t afford the buildings. The garrisons have basically no ranged units so no dps. I’ve had numerous situations where the ai brings a stupidly powerful army to destroy a herdstone. Anti player bias really hurts the beastmen imo.
kinda a bitch to complete their Long Victory campaigns though, especially Taurox. starts all the way in Naggarond, and his final targets are the empire and France, which means having to plow through a bunch of knife ears. Morghur and Malagor only have a hop, skip and a jump to reach the Empire, and Khazrak just starts there.
@@digiorno1142if your early game is good enough (you need to be very aggressive), you can easily have more than 3 strong armies in mid game. especially if you play with taurox with your rampage extra moves you can just crush all your neighbors and take all ritual points quickly with just taurox's army.
Saw this and i will say i think personally skaven should be higher. All you really need to do is get 4 or 5 units of firewarp throwers, a bunch of skaven slave and you have a relatively cheap army that punches way above its weight class in auto resolve.
So far I can't say with certainty, I think Nurgle moves to somewhere in the top of the bottom factions, Dawi are the same-ish and Empire is probably one of the stronger factions now, definitely not top 10, but somewhere close.
@@CultistOfkhorne Thanks for your answer ! Yeah cuz i saw your other videos with empire doomstack like outriders and amethyst artillery and it looked strong! Anyway awesome videos as always ;) keep going !
I actually just bought this game a couple days ago. never played any total war game.... nurgle was first pick. I have no dlc just warhammer 3. i really thought i wasted my money i just kept getting clapped.
О, я рад за Кислев на его 8 месте. Баба Яга(в смысле Матушка Останкия) может обложить проклятьями врага(и на каждого - уникальный сорт дебаффа, хоть шанс провала магии, что понравится Автору), да и остальные хороши своими мультиклассами
dark elves should be much higher, especially after the chaos dwarf dlc. that dlc improved their slave mechanic and gave them an option to insta build buildings with slaves. this allows you to recruit shades much sooner then previously possible, and shades can carry you straight into the late game without any issues
Disagree with Vampire coast arguments. 1. Fun is subjective, 2. You dont do Empire building with the Coast you do Pirate building, 3. You can have crazy income with very few settlements from pirate coves, raiding, razing settlements and plundering sea wrecks, 4. By my experience my armies by the end game are undefeatable, with insane damage and range you barely suffer casualties and your insane replenishment means you can not be slowed down. I play on hardest difficulty both battle and campaign.
Yeah, fun is subjective, and I don't enjoy v coast because they are poorly designed. You say you make a lot of money from pirate coves. I just streamed a campaign of v coast, the money making buildings for pirate coves are ridiculously expensive, making you a profit after 40 ish turns if placed in a high income settlement like Erengrad. I mean just think about that, building a regular income building makes you a profit after 5 turns + port settlements increase income form all ports + you have a rite that gives you money based on how many capital settlements you own. I was pleasantly surprised how much money they make by razing settlements, but in the long term you can make more by building them up, so you aren't incentivized to blow them up. V coast armies are ridiculously glass cannon, if something comes close to you you are dead, line of sight issues, and short range, not to mention the lack of killing power, makes their armies extremely vulnerable to pretty much anything. Here do me a favor, go into custom battle, take queen bess and shoot some infantry, then take a dread quake mortar and do the same, see what does more damage, and tell me v coast has insane damage afterwards. Actually even caskets of souls probably has more damage and give you power recharge rate. I get you like cosplaying as a pirate and you love v coast, but they are just poorly designed, Warriors of Chaos are better pirates than Vampire Coast.
I think this list changes depending on difficulty it's played on tbh. As well as what you are trying to achieve. I feel like this list is created with paint the map on L/VH in mind which is fine but there are lots of ways to play the game and have a successful campaign doing so.
Well, there are different way to play the game sure, but I don't think this changes too much when lowering the difficulty, as the top races are still going to dominate. Also you can have a successful campaign on any difficulty, with any race or faction, but that doesn't mean some of them don't stand above the rest.
I think you should consider the fact that vampire coast isn't a city builder faction. It's more like a horde faction where you just defend your 1 settlement. Take noctilus for example. I just defend my start settlement and sell ever city i plunder and take over to the highest bidder and spam necrofex to dominate in turn 31
Yeah, but they don't have the mechanics for it. I took that into consideration for the Wood Elves as they do. Also look at the Beastmen, they are again a much better version of a semi horde race. Vampire Coast is just rather badly designed and in need of a rework in my opinion, but they are still stronger than races I think to be better implemented. If they just had similar mechanics to Warriors of Chaos I think they would be one of the strongest races.
I feel like skaven is better than the Chaos dwarfs. I would argue the early game is similar and skaven have a better late game with heroes and maxed ambush success chances.
Yeah, but with the Chorfs you don't even need to have full stack armies to win battles, because of all the army abilities, and with all the equipment you gain anyone of your lords can become a one man doomstack. Then in the late game Chorfs can increase global recruit capacity and lower the recruit duration, recruit 19 K'daai destroyers in 1 turn, while Skaven can't.
I can't agree enough on your list, overall perfect positioning except for Kislev that I would have put much lower in the 14 or 15th place. I just found their economy too weak early game, and not all kislev factions have good base mechanics like katarin or kostaltyn And also I would put tomb kings much higher. While they keep their diesel power very low in early game, more you are aggresive and take much lands, more your empire will skyrocket in economy and research rate to add more dynasties. They got really cheap building, it doesn't look like much, but it adds a lot to the overall income. Except these 2 I would keep your list like that because I agree on most of the comments you have made lol.
Maybe I was being too generous with Kislev, but I feel like their campaign is much stronger than you might think. Also believe me, I love playing the Tomb Kings, so putting them that low was a bummer for me, but unless you are playing Arkhan they just feel so slow to get started and they have a limit to the amount of armies you can have. I can't remember what it is exactly, but I think it is a bit more than 16, which just further cements their place so far down.
Not long ago I played Daniel's WH3 Campain and I rarely played a worse LL I was playing on NORMAL difficulty and he was getting hard soloed by Valkia 20 levels behind, terrible experience, also he almost died in the first round of the final battle.
I agree with most except tzeench. Tzeench is easily the most powerful faction in the game, even more powerful than Khorne. And it's understandable that personal bias likely play well into the ranking but it's very clear that you don't understand how tzeench works. You can literally force an opponent to LOSE TWO TURNS, STEAL SETTLEMEMTS, FORCE PEACE (useful when some faction is about to attack a weak point), GAIN AN EXTRA MOVE, OPEN EVER GATE IN EVERY SEIGE, AND START EVERY FIGHT AS AN AMBUSH. Your best units can fly and you have flying flamethrowers, FLYING FLAMETHROWERS!!! But magic is the real weapon and you will control YOUR OWN access to it. I don't have 3000 hours, only 1200 but it's very clear you have not spent real campaign time learning tzeench. His faction is stupidly OP. I know most folks get intimidated by Teclis and Oxy being starter enemies, but they are far easier to manage after this past update. So Give tzeench another shot and maybe you'll see what I'm talking about.
Yeah, I more than likely did Tzeentch dirty, but I wouldn't really say he is better than Khorne, and yeah I should play another Kairos campaign to try and get a better feel for it.
Dude you can't make video if you don't have achievements with every faction. It shows. I understand Khorne being n.1 even though I disagree because yes, you can win campaign in 8 turns but you need to fight everything manually because auto-resolve is Khorne's biggest enemy Next Vampire Counts. I disagree again. Ghorst zombies may be op. Vlad's healing may be op. Yet they get screwed by auto-resolve as well. They have at least raise the dead which helps a bit. Their diplomacy is garbage and everyone hates them so you are often fighting battles on multiple fronts and since you need to fight with quantity over quality you need to cheese battles to win effectively. Late game vampires have really hard time catching up to some of the other races in terms of battles as well. My biggest LOL was when I saw Bretonnia on rank 14. This is just so wrong. Faction is strong as in the early game as well as it is in the late game. It has incredibly powerful lords, good magic, strong economy and your late game armies are basically unstoppable. You can go no problem 1v3 armies and have heroic victory with minimal losses. Fully buffed grail guardians can fight Malus Darkblade. Also their diplomacy is great which makes for easy campaign because you can pick your enemies and have secure borders. Definitely should be in top 3. Kislev and Cathay below Norsca is another great joke. After DLC update these factions are beefed up incredibly. They are very strong in auto-resolve, have great diplomacy, economy, strong armies, and in Cathay's case lords who can solo enemy armies. As with Bretonnia you can easily go against your odds being outnumbered and win. Tzeentch too low as well. Normally I would agree. DLC however gave him everything the faction needed and it is now on a whole different power level. Probably one of the best economies from the chaos factions. Incredible magic, almost cheating faction mechanics, better auto-resolve than before (probably the best from the monogod factions) His only downside is horrible starting location and boring tech tree. (I mean Kairos, I'm not talking about Changeling as that is unrankable IMHO)
Ummm, I don't really understand you, sometimes you say having to manually resolve everything is bad and sometimes you say it is good? Also what do achievements have to do with anything, I won 5 Brettonia campaigns before they even got an achievement for it. I still don't have the achievement for winning their campaign even though I have a save where I achieved all 4 victories. I ranked everything based on how I saw it perform in my campaigns, like I said I don't play some of these race all that often I will admit to maybe not ranking some of them properly, but I can't make heads or tails of what your reasoning is for most of them. Vampire Counts just cant be slowed down, by the time you reach turn 60 with them you will have 100+ settlements. Kislev and Cathay are also really strong, but you can do so much better with Norsca. Norsca just has better economy, better technology, and better late game bonuses. For the top races who cares about diplomacy, you can basically just demolish any faction you come across.
My only experience with Nurgle is the realms of chaos and by God did I scrape up a win, I wasn't able to get through the gates 2 times, and had to ambush Nakari so he wouldn't win, without the DLC it is challenging, but also quite fun despite it, it was the first time I actually felt challenged since Cathay and Kislev were much easier, Kislev was just hell at the beginning and I had to redo the campaign early though
its hard to make a ranking for these. there are so many things to consider, so its normal for people to disagree. however! the changeling literraly can not lose his campaign unless on purpose, will teleport ambush every time and can become the most powerful character as he can change into anyone and can get the chainsword. put on top of that his changing of ways mechanic and how his cult buildings work, i see nothing else topping him. the only way i can see him lose is via snikch kill faction mechanic, but im not even sure that can happen? must be hell to fight him in a pvp campaign
I don't really understand what you timestamped there, and a lot of people do say that the Skaven placement is bad, but at the time it fit because of the food situation, where it was fairly difficult to get it going, slowing down their campaign. Now though I would have to play more Skaven see how it is currently.
If you are referring to the Warhammer 2 Eltharion vortex campaign, wasn't that done in 1 turn where you had to wait out the timer for the final battle. If not link me what you are talking about.
@@CultistOfkhorne yeah man thats the one ! and i think the record is like 3/4 turns i know legend did 7 turns when it was brand new, man its wired thinking the vortex campaign is gone now
Hard agree on Tzeentch and Bretonnia. Bretonnia isnt bad, its just that theyre boring. But Tzeentch kinda sucks. The changing of the ways COULD be good, but it takes forever to get enough grimoirs to break alliance/force war, and you gotta wait forever for take settlement. I feel like the people saying tzeentch is OP dont actually play tzeentch
Should give another try to Tzeentch. Who cares about spamming armies when you can ambush every single battle with the teleportation stance. Plus, Kairos is a one man army and can take care of a few late game armies on its own quite easily. There is a reason why Tzeentch ends up being rank 1 to almost every single campaign.
Yeah, I probably should, I played 2 campaigns of it, but in both I just didn't feel like the faction was all that strong. Kairos is definitely amazing, but Tzeentch as a whole just feels bad.
@@CultistOfkhorne to be honest no, tzeentch isnt a normal, nor even a bad race. His armies on late end up being stupid with soo much power that even things like skaven end game scenarios for me end up quicly. Tzeentch just requieres two things: Construct a lot, and i mean a lot of biblioteques, they will finish youre entire tech tree as fast as turn 40 and give a greath ammount of grimmoires per turn (on a campaing by turn 60 i ended every turn with 230 grimmoires). Dont throw grimories on everything, just wait for the perfect momment, like i did on a campaing i played with my brother and start a world war between 4 different factions and each one being on top 5 (gringor, karaz az karak, slaanesh (for some reason on that campaing end up owning ulthuan) and eastern provinces) while preventing my brother to take repercusions on the campaing. By final, there are some tips, teleport instance can atack enemies on the sea and force them to atack you, youre endgame units are broken on many instances: chosen, doom knights, mutalith, changebringers, lord of change and soulgrinders work really well in soo many scenarios and at last if youre a guy who likes to cheese, just buy an entire army of lord of change with every technolgy and yeah that bullshit is just an macro error, i remenber using it for a 4 armies of skaven (yeah i did the same of the video of lord of change doomstack) and end up without losing a single unit, while i destroy everysingle army.
@@WalterSobchack51 Yes I play on legendary. The ai factions that are consistently strength rank 1 are Tyrion, Malekith, and some Greenskin usually Grimgor or Wurzag.
I think you should put grand Cathay much higher because you can sustain an absurd amount of armies because of the harmony.also their units are super good for their tier for example jade warriors are so good that u can recrute them until the late game. I played multiplayer campaign and they are one of the strongest. Especially against melee focused armies
Yeah, no I took all of that into consideration, and the difference between Cathay and Kislev is very miniscule, so you could be right about that, but higher than Kislev I don't think Cathay belongs.
Bretonnia has no business being that low. Having no supply lines as well as life magic puts them above at least half the other races. They can literally spam lords early game. On top of that they have one of the best economies in the game and good post battle loot. The only downside is the vow mechanic.
Yeah, I know all that which is why I put them so high, like I said they take too long to get going and by the time they do other races will already have ended their campaign.
@@CultistOfkhorneSlower than other races like chaos dwarfs, kislev, or dark elves? Yeah don’t know about that one bro. Bretonnia has extremely high growth and great public order, and like I said can straight up spam lords. Bretonnia is a race that’s strong in early and late game for this exact reason.
Well, up to you if you want to believe me or not. I think I ranked them pretty high already, they aren't that weak, being just below the average. You really shouldn't be comparing them to Chorfs though, as Chorfs just have 10 times the tools to use in their campaigns, no supply lines, lower upkeep lords that can be more powerful, and no matter how strong peasant archers are they will never outperform hobgoblins.
@@CultistOfkhorne I was responding to you saying that other factions will have already won the game by the time Bretonnia gets going, which is no offense idiotic and far from true. I don’t think Bretonnia is as strong as the chorfs. But to say Bretonnia is below average is just silly and biased. They are objectively a strong race. Their tech tree is one of the best in the game, they have one of the best base economies with farms without boosting anything, they have extremely high post battle loot for an order faction, they have no supply lines with very strong lords, they have lore of life spellcasters(yes that is a significant bonus), they have great base public order, they have absurdly high growth and can get high tier settlements quickly. I don’t see how a race like Kislev can be higher than them considering they have a far worse economy and marginally better early game army, their starting position is significantly harder dealing with Thrott, Drycha, Azazel, Azhag, Norsca, etc. Kislev also has some of the worst magic in the entire game. What are the downsides to Bretonnia again? A vow system requiring some tediousness? Bretonnia has to be the most overhated race in the whole game for no reason.
I didn't mean literally won, but rather achieved critical mass and have become unstoppable. Also I'm not biased against Bretonnia, as i really enjoy playing them, and would rather play them over Norsca, but that doesn't mean they are stronger.
I agree with your list. The order doesn't matter too much. I think everyone agree that nurgle, ogres, empire and dwarfs are in a very bad spot. But IMO, Daniel should be the worst faction in the game. At least with nurgle you can spam heroes and steamroll the AI with impunity.
You could have 1 million million universes. And throughout all of them 1 thing would stay the same: there is no timeline where the skaven, the empire, the chaos dwarves, and normal dwarves are below THE NORSCA. Brettonia is the empire but worse, skaven have the 2nd best ranged roster in the game + undercities for infinite money and being able to make 5 armies out of nowhere that have no upkeep. Chaos dwarves have the best ranged units and artillery in the game as well as the tankieness that comes with being a stunty. And i don't even know what's going on with how broken fealty and college of wizards are for the empire.
I have update videos on Dwarfs, Empire and Nurgle if you want to check them out, there were even video cards in those sections for you to follow. And yeah Bretonnia is now a step weaker than both the empire and dwarfs. As for Norsca, I mean you talk like some one who has never played them, they get insane post battle loot by fighting battles and sacking settlements, insane income from ports, and can after 20ish turns just recruit frost trolls in a single turn globally. So basically a full troll doomstack every 2 to 3 turns, and you think that isn't going to be stronger than the lower ranks who will need more time to get their best units, or at that pace while not even being able to compete with their economy. I mean come one, they are unupdated monkeys, but they can conquer the world with ease.
@@CultistOfkhorne Skaven can get ratling guns and warplock jezzails by turn 2. You're right that i never played norsca but they have just been a punching bag faction for a.while and i just didn't notice them being buffed.
Ratling gunners are much worse than trolls for the early campaign, and you need to give them the best possible setup to be strong, whereas with trolls you can just right click. Another big problem with the Skaven is they can't support as many armies as Norsca can, so while weapon team armies are strong, you can't have many of them, and Norsca can just spam out armies whenever and wherever they want. I also don't know what you mean by punching bag faction? When played by the A.I. of course they are going to be bad, but when played by the player they are one of the strongest races in the game currently. They are buggy, unpolished, bland, but they are strong.
@@CultistOfkhorne This is not even worth arguing anymore, point is: the skaven have a very strong economy because almost every building makes money, some of the most powerful ranged units in the game by turn 2 ( even if we ignore ratlings you can still get warplocks and bombardiers at the same time), workable frontlines, and nukes. Norsca have max level garrisons that are worse than wulfric's starting army. nuff said goodbye!
I persoanly just play for fun so it dont really matter to me what i play. I love playing Skarbrand though. Took over the entire Realm of Chaos map destroying every single faction. Also i love play nkari and valkia.
seeing this video after thrones of decay was released i rly thought hard and nope this list not representing it any more at all, dwarfs are now completly op empire with elspeth are also a top faction and nurgle got a super heavy faction with tamurkhan
The most boring to play has to be bretonnia tho. For all practial purposes they only have four units (infantry, archers, cavalry and trabuchets) and of those, you have to rely on the cavalry the most. Hope you like having to hammer and anvil cycle charge every battle with every lord the entire campaign, because all your armies are gonna look pretty much the same. Add to that the fact their only lord and hero options are "generic fighter dude" and "generic mage lady". If they were a flavor of ice cream it would be water
@@CultistOfkhorne Idk man, the only campaign mechanics they have are weaknesses. That didnt relax me any of the times I tried giving them an opportunity. Maybe if I held on until I could start snowballing it wouldve been different, but since I found them so repetitive to play as I couldnt even do that In the lore they have some Robin Hood like guys called Herrimaults and Faceless, which could be units of stealth archers, and ranged heroes or lords that buff peasants to the point of being able to win battles on their own. That would introduce some variety. But the peasant units themselves that we have so far are so plain, that it may not even be enough
Hard to do a ranking, as certain lords can play so different. Snikch for example is super strong for the Skaven. Arkhan is really good for the tomb kings. Kislev is imo to high. I don`t agree on Khorne, as somehow you can loose this campaign if you loose a battle or take to much casualties. VC or Greenskins, that`s pretty hard to loose, even if you try. Also, Archaeon, how do you loose that campaign? There`s an extrem imbalance to factions that are really good early game, and VC basically has access to late game units, great heros. Same for Greenskins and Whaag, just a crazy meachanic that lets you steamroll everything without your late game armies being weak.
I mean, I tried to generalize it as much as I could and it is mostly based on my experience with the game, so I know it isn't perfect, but its the best I could make it.
I am quite sure that Cathay should be above Kislev, and possibly even above high elves. Letsdo comparison to Kislev. Cathay has a lot beater economy, their starting area is more defendable, and their armies are a....bit beater than Kislev. In tier 0 Kislev might be beater, but after that Cathay armies are beater, and they buff their units more meaningfully through red line skills. Like Kislev will buff archers melee defence, or lineholders firepower even if sometimes they don't have ranged attacks. As for high elves Cathay economy is still superior and I think that it is enough even if their early game armies are possibly a bit weaker.
I don't think you played High Elves enough if you think Cathay economy is better, as High Elves have the best economy in the game. As for Kislev you could make the argument, but it mostly depends on how well you play Kislev early on, as if you are aggressive enough and confederate the other Kislev factions you can occupy a lot of territory and surpass Cathay in every way. In a campaign where you go at the same pace though, then yeah you could say Cathay is better.
@@CultistOfkhorne I think you seeing Kislev as more powerfull is fair. If you can gain more power from some faction compared to others it more powerfull faction should go on top on your own list. I would say Cathay is more easy faction, but you might be right that you can't expand as efficiently. However I do still think Cathay has more powerful economy. I can't open the game right now, but looking from wikia, Cathay has cheaper tier 0 units, and while they are not as good, jade warriors are beater units than elven spearmen, while having same upkeep cost. Also from main economy building tier 3 High elves get base line 200 gold with tradable recources while Cathay gets either 200 gold with bonus money from traide tarrifs or 250 gold. However Cathay can get extra 15% from harmony and 6% more from growth building.
Two things I don't think you are taking into consideration, but High Elves double their income when they reach 100 public order, which isn't hard to do, and there is a skill in the skill tree of generic lords that increases income by 1% which stacks indefinitely. So really there is no race, but maybe the Dark Elves, who can ever beat the High Elves in the amount of income they can get.
@@CultistOfkhorne I had complitely forgotten about both of those things. I would say that it is not doubled, but 65% increase from max happiness (15% from baseline happiness and 50% from buildings) and that lord chease will only become available at the end game. I do still think that Cathay has beater early game economy where it can be more impactfull, but I agree that overall high elves have beater economy.
I mean there is one faction in every race that is an exception and doesn't follow this, but I do mostly make these to be informative and entertaining, so I'm glad you enjoyed it!
You should be ranking factions, not single lords. Skarbrand is one of the best lords cause his movement reset synergizes with khorne raise armies mechanic. Khorne as a a faction is among the weakest factions imo
I mean, not really, you get armies recruited in a single turn for free, I think you underestimate that way too much. Even if Skarbrand couldn't demolish the entire map in a single turn, Khorne would still be the strongest race in the game, but I guess we will see that when new Khorne factions get added.
Wood elves are 15 not just Orion, and I personally kind of don't like that mechanic, as in order to get 0 upkeep you have to go to war with every faction you can, which just kind of ruins the campaign for me.
@@CultistOfkhorne at the start its a hassle but once you get going you can essentially keep factions as war slaves and bring them down to 1 minor settlement and sack it whenever they get a force
But I do know how to play him, I played more than 10 campaigns of Ku'gath, some that lasted for more than 100 turns. Nurgle is just a terribly designed race nothing more to it, it's fine if you like to play it, but it doesn't change the fact.
lol we are clearly not playing the same game here. Its a terrible ranking... You clearly haven't played some factions. 1:Changeling (brokenly easy and impossible to lose.). 2: Khorne. Then in order. Cathay (completely broken economy. No problem with 15-20 doomstacks and still make 40+ k a turn. Only weakness mid to late game is you can't churn out doomstacks fast enough to use all the income. They need a massive nerf.) WoC. Skaven. Beastmen. Greenskins. Chorfs. Tzeentch. (only weakness is economy) These factions are miles ahead of anyone else. Frankly they ain't playing the same game as the rest.
Umm, I wasn't ranking factions thought, I was trying to rank the race as a whole. Some factions are so different form the race they are in you cant even say they belong there, such as with the Changeling and Nakai. Most factions in the races follow this sort of generalization I did.
This is a bit outdated, I did a separate video where I reevaluated Nurgle after Thrones of Decay, and now he is somewhere in the middle of the strength ranking, nowhere near as weak as he used to be.
I think Tomb kings and especially Tzeentch are too low. I would at least put them above the Coast/Empire, maybe even above Lizardmen. Tzeentch is probably even top 10 material, definitely not Tomb Kings.
You have a extremely strong roster with top notch infantry, ranged units and now even monsters, the changing of the ways is also very OP and basically allows you to completely troll your enemy. Only downsides is economy is not good, but tbh the things I listed above put Tzeentch at the very least above races like Lizardmen and Dawi.
Having Skaven at 13 is thematic, but is also crazy. Bro is not cooking on this one
Skaven are fairly bad. Having them in a "strong" slot is honestly pushing it. I know there are a lot of people who like them, but they just aren't that good. Armies and economy are just lackluster. Every faction can steamroll, and they don't really do it harder than the better ones.
@@ethanwilliams1880 I don't even know what to say but i'll try:
Undercities: infinite money, infinite food, spread faster than bubonic plague, accelerate research rate, raze settlements from across the map, make 20 stacks from across the map.
Armies: second best ranged roster in the game (tied for best with clan skryre), warplock jezzails delete large and armor to the point where artillery is downright irrelevant, and poisoned wind mortars (which btw can flee at the same speed as any other weapons team) turn anything that isn't a war machine, monster, or cav into slag regardless of armor from insane range.
Also almost every building produces income so it's harder to have a bad economy than a good one.
@@PacmanPac-m8y All factions are good once they've started to ramp up. Skaven are bad because their ramp time is too long, and their early units are beyond garbage.
In wh2 they were much better, thanks to an overall slower game, and to some exploits that don't work as well in wh3.
Undercities aren't very useful unless you like to turtle, or are trying to have an outpost far away.
The quality of their ranged roster is debatable. Their artillery is on par with brettonia, and their gunner units aren't any better than empire/dwarf/kislev equivalents, with the exception of ratling guns.
@@ethanwilliams1880 undercities spread faster than whatever disease spread throughout your brain to ignore the fact that the power of the skaven starts high and ends in the stars. Undercities in my experience almost never get destroyed by the ai and so can provide infinite money and food. And also the economy is extremely powerful because of the fact that nearly all buildings make money. I don't think you have even played the skaven for more than 20 minutes. Also poisoned wind mortars are top 2 ranged units in the game.
@@ethanwilliams1880you have definitely not played skaven. They literally start with their good units and ikit can recruit more from the very beginning. They can get to tier 5 in 8 turns. The quality of their ranged army is not debatable at all lol, jezzails, rattling guns, poisoned wind mortars. They outclass bretonnia, the dwarfs and the empire in ranged combat to ridiculous degree. What are you smoking?
Tzeetch (kairos) is a surprisingly rich faction stacking + 45% income per province building with resources buildings + 40% you can get really really high income, also tzeech (changeling) is invincible unless you purposefully throw the campaign
Yeah, maybe Tzeentch is just my personal preference, but when ever I play Kairos I just find it hard to expand or field armies, and comparing his campaign to anyone above him, he just feels so bad.
Also I consider the Changeling a cheat code so I didn't take him into consideration.
Yeah also changing of the ways are broken. Make a war with a faction even the strongest one, take one province and force peace of them. They will not make war on you even after 10 turns. Halt army and double move is also very great. Only thing that is useless is break alliance since its too expensive
@@CultistOfkhorne I've conquered the whole southern half of the map on IE with Kairos only using pink horrors the flamers line and heroes. They get crazy economy though it takes a bit to build up. The changing of ways is pretty powerful and there are some cheesy strategies that can be done with it like stealing a settlement and trading it back for a large sum of money or an alliance. You can declare war snipe a province and then force peace before the AI can retaliate. Halt army and the double movement are also really strong allowing you to catch enemies out of position or run into a dangerous area and then nope on out of there back to safety. Plus the teleport stance is a free ambush battle.
@@CultistOfkhorne mate fr khorne is ass and in the hands of the ai he gets absolutely destroyed i think he is cool but this is just you very biased opinion (not cooking with this one ) you are even named cultist of khorne !!!LIKE WHAT A HELL YOU SAY lol
@@CultistOfkhorne I agree that early game tzeentch is very hard, surrounded by those armored lizards. Pink and blue horrors deals like no damage at all. They force like every neighbour go to war with you unless you bribe them.
As a Daniel main myself, you did him justice. He may deserve a bottom tier all to himself (along with maybe Kugath but I haven't played Kugath). His buildings make no sense. Most of his Chaos-gifted equipment makes no sense. His campaign is only survivable because you can get +30 diplomacy with his Chaos/Norsca neighbors.
Try play him in SFO. Demons are much more formidable combatants, and I had Lords and heroes at lvl 20 in 3-4 turns with Daniel, his faction gains so much passive xp per turn.
@@Grivehn Hm thanks for the recommendation but that does sound kind of unchallenging. I like playing weak factions! My issue with vanilla Daniel is that so many of his 'options' in citybuilding and personal loadout turn out to be fake because the internal balance is so thoughtless.
@@GrivehnOk so just use mods to make him OP. Cool
@@Nikolas5842 1. Thats for lategame anyway, requires a considerable amount of built up territory under your belt and beyond turn100 waiting for your greater demons to get first transformation, then immortality, so 30ish levels, then another 30 is a process most people never even get to see, since they dont play that long.
2. I'll never understand whats people's obsession with wanting to be weak in a single player game. Suffer and complain, then. What do I care. I just sought if I can make him a more fun experience for others, since demonic crumbling sucks balls in vanilla and is slowed down for SFO like for undead.
Although Settra is incredibly angry at this, I'd be more afraid of pissing off Gor'Rok or Kroq Gar.
only the worthiest players can play Settra the Imperishable and expect to be good at it. It was intentional
Even with warrior priest the empire just feels like the skaven with smaller guns.
And no monsters
@@pogo8050 And no income from defence buildings
You floppy hat fanboys will be getting your update soon, don't worry
YES BUT THE QUESTION IS; ARE YOU ABLE TO SUMMON THE ELECTOR COUNTS AS RATS???
Ah yes the Skaven with their wide roster of heavy cavalry.
Honestly, solution for rats - just don't recruit their melee infantry. Just don't. Weapons team doomstacks can deal with most enemies that AI can produce. So with that in mind, i would put skaven much higher, around HE. But i pretty much agree with everything else that you said
personally i see 0 reason to ever play skaven in warhammer 3 bc of how much better and more fun they are in wh2 but yeah theyre definitely still super strong
Having few weapon team doomstacks was good for Warhammer 2, but for Warhammer 3 horde tactics are better, and the Skaven can't compete there, unless they get some changes to their food economy. But yeah, I also prefer playing them in Warhammer 2 than 3.
@@eshaan570 yes, wh2 skaven much stronger and more fun
i havnt played much wh2, i prefer NE for fun and im trying skaven my first time today in wh3. I m not that familiar with wh2
yep, melee skaven is pretty much useless, can't hold the line properly.Will break leadership like in 1 cavalry charge. Maybe skavenslaves for suicide strategy with the wind globadier. But I think skaven can dominate early game by abusing the food mechanics, get tier IV or 5 settlement instantly.
Will you rank real life races after this?
How would you rate basketball race?
F1 races are the best
While I generally agree with your assessment of the Wood Elves, Orion can go incredibly hard with the upkeep cost reduction he gets from being in multiple wars.
I would add that wood elfs have one of the strongest unit rosters, and tree kins are possibly the strongest early game doomstack that can work as a late game doomstack.
Diplomacy plays a large role which is not considered here, the empire gets the order tide and surrounded by allies whereas skaven or chaos dwarfes get piled on by everyone. This plays into how you construct your armies (spamming/doom stacking). The empire/lizardmen can therefore afford fewer armies whereas skaven and chaos dwarfes(early game) are forced to spam worse armies to deal with more threats.
Well, I actually did, as the more enemies the chaos factions have, even neutral factions, the better they perform. More battles means more income, labor, food, canopic jars, souls etc. Kislev for example I would have ranked much lower if they couldn't just confederate all of the other Kislevites very quickly. Similar to Bretonia and High Elves, just look at where I put the Empire who has a rather poor confederation mechanic and the Dwarfs who are too stubborn to confederate.
@@CultistOfkhorne fair enouth, as warhammer 3 is far more generous with being in several wars at a time. But factions who needs to build up provinces will suffer if left undefended, chaos dwarfes benefits greatly by large amounts of combat but being sandwiched between agreesive factions (drazhoath) leads to a two/three front war slowing progress.
thank you for this, got the game on sale and been playing only chaos dwarfs so wanted to try out some other fun races
Well, I didn't really make this as a fun ranking, as it would be a bit different, but if you haven't already I would definitely advise you to play Skarbrand :D
This guy does race ranking and gets 800 likes, I do race ranking and I get a call from HR, smh double standards
for once i actually agree with this top 10 (style) list. i thought id never be able to escape colonel damnders bullshit, ty for this
No problem, I'm glad you enjoyed!
Awesome video man, I love watching these tierlists.
Ngl I think Slaanesh should be higher for a few reasons,
the biggest reason for me personally is the summoned armies the thing is they don't count against your supply lines (last I checked) and if you keep them at home they never expire to attrition meaning you can build massive free doomstacks of defenders at every settlement (1 free army per province per 10 turns) which over the course of a game is a lot of armies that make fighting you an absolute pain, alternatively throw them into any threat you don't want your non-free troops to take so you can horde tactic through an entire faction (throwing several 4 stacks at every settlement/army feels great)
the second thing that makes them great is the cults, the ability to jump continents (for free if you wait a bit) and then just summon armies or start building to a force vassalization is amazing, also you can detach a cultist from your main force and summon armies at whatever settlement you might need help with (just in case you couldn't use the ones at home for some reason)
third N'Kari is a super fun doomstack (personal preference there ig) that gets insane charge bonuses (and the ability to negate charge reflection with built in rampage aura) and can decimate most units on 1 or 2 cycle charges (yes I have soloed entire 20 stacks with N'Kari) as well as an insane melee defense (over 100 once you build into it) also N'kari is FAST with their perks getting them to 150+ speed easily. basically N'kari is a super chariot and should be played as one (not as a spellcaster)
As far as the unit cost thing you need a lord in you territory at all times anyways for summoning disciple armies and Slaanesh gets some pretty decent unit cost reduction perks (you only need tier 1/2 infantry which is cheap cause the summoned army is based on the summoning armies size and not on its units), but if you felt good about your economy don't worry cause N'kari has some fairly easy access to stealing the sword of khaine so you can doomstack them even more.
Also diplomacy + mark of Slaanesh cheese is amazing (with research to boost it even more) because if you make sure the last settlement you conquer is a minor settlement you don't care about the legendary lord (who should have mark of slaanesh) will just sit there giving you free devotees (and corruption) every turn (make sure to force vassalize when the faction would be defeated) and you can then get all that plus armies (even if bad) that will help defend your territory (cause vassals are defensive) can never leave you and will let you recruit all their fun units + they give you ok amounts of income because of N'kari's doubled income from vassals thing, also N'kari can 'resurrect' factions as her vassals.
Yes if it's not obvious I am a huge Slaanesh fan, sorry for the rant...
Nah I like the rant, but I already took all of that into consideration. I might not show it, but I did play quite a few Slaanesh campaigns, and I put them quite high in my opinion, the races that are above them ether have more/better tools to use or just a much easier time conquering the map. I would have put every little detail as to why I ranked them as I did into the video, but it would make it a few hours long.
@@CultistOfkhornefair enough I suppose
You're going in the book for this one
As a dwarf main, I agree. Like it’s make scene to make their building high because dwarf want to build high, not wide. But the buildings just gives no output for that cost(
Also due to the weaker garrisons and new sieges the defensive capabilities of short kings is really low now.
This is sad. I want to lore-friendly defend my impenetrable keeps from swarms of greenskins, not sitting there trying to afford tier 3 gold mine with no income while no one is trying to attack me, because AI :
Good video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I liked the vid, definitely agreed with most of your takes. I personally would move Vampire Counts and Norsca down a bit and move Skaven, Lizardmen, and Tzeench up a bit after playing them all pretty recently. The Changing of Ways can be really strong imo, especially halt army and force peace which can essentially let you fight as few or as many wars once unlocked and upgraded, plus barriers and good magic are pretty strong after awhile. A lot of things are subjective though for sure, keep up the vids!
Thanks!
Would love to see, and everyone else too, tier list of all factions. You have really interesting point of view
Got into Warhammer because of the Lizardmen and think Nurgle is the coolest Chaos God. Feels bad, man.
Another great video.
I appreciate that
Lokhir Fellheart needs his own category because he can get powerful quickly. By turn 10, you can get 5 black arks with shade stacks for plundering.
Yeah, but that would be when comparing different factions, here I mostly tried to do the races as a whole.
thanks for the video
Saurus warriors and temple guard should be buffed and moved up a recruitment tier imo. In the lore there's no infantry other than like, chosen or maybe black orks, who should be able to fight them on even footing
I think the high elf elites could go toe to toe with them. In game swordmasters beat chosen most of the time to they can compare
The timing of this video was a bit unlucky so shortly before the release of Thrones of Decay ^^'
Yeah, I am updating it bit by bit, already updated for Nurgle and Dwarfs.
I recently played a Dwarf campaign and what you said is mostly true. Thorgrim, and maybe Ungrim, have excellent starting locations in which once they confederate each other and secure their surrounding mountain provinces its pretty much a snowball from there. The only factions you have to worry about are The Bloody Handz, Disciples of the Maw, and Clan Mors mainly because early game they have the upper hand 100% of the time in 1v1 battles.
My campaign goal was to retake the entirety of the Karaz Ankor and then take back the Dwarven Colonies/Mend the Race Divide (Chaos Dwarves, Lustria, Ogres, Norsca, and maybe Cathay) and by turn 75 I had wiped out my starting enemies and controlled the old world portion of the world's edge mountains and was eyeing up certain Order factions that had taken my rightful clay.
imo the Dwarf campaign would be much better if 75% of the faction wasn't just generic lords (I was using Mixu's legendary lords and recruit refugees) and if they somehow implemented the rebuilding the underways mod (I was making almost 10k from Karaz-a-karak near the end of my campaign).
Tzeentch is strong af. You stop armies every 2 turns for almost free, you force peace every 3 turns for almost free, you spam spellcasters which destroy armies in their entirety, the Blue Scribes can convert a weak army to a 'doomstack' since they spam spells for a very low cost, they have the barrier mechanic which makes skirmishing cav, charging cav and infantry regenerate infinitely for free and the economy is surprisingly strong. You can get 3k or so income per maxed province.
The teleport stance guarantees you an ambush battle and you can get a research which makes it free and the army abilities are by far the strongest out of all the daemon factions. More winds of magic, bolt that erases low armour units and a barrage which can be used as an area of denial or to, again, erase multiple stacked units. (The Changeling is not included in my evaluation since he is the worst designed LL CA made. You get free campaigns with almost free armies in the Changeling's region. I think he has the strongest faction ingame but the least fun)
Kairos' start is hard if you don't know what to do and easy if you do. You can get a strong vassal almost for free, you just capture Rapturous Excess' capital and trade it for vassalage and now you get access to slaaneshi units too.
Ever since the SoC DLC (which i got for free from a friend) i have enjoyed Kairos even more, since the Centigors are absolutely insane. They allowed me to destroy the Lizardmen's Kroxigors, Salamanders, Razordons and even the Cold One Riders.
Tzeentch is so different from Khorne, so I understand why you find him so weak, but i wholeheartedly disagree :)))
Great video tho
Dragon isles alone make almost 9k 😂
@@miloradlukic9277 never got that far with Tzeentch, i concentrate on Lustria, the Southlands, Bretonnia and the Empire.
@@coaiemandushman1079 well its fairly close, and you can rasily beat nurgle, its the riches province for you that i found in game, second is your starting at 6k
@@miloradlukic9277 fair enough, fair enough
imma beat Ku'gath's ass next time i play Kairos
@@coaiemandushman1079 and its super lore friendly
I had to go back to the intro to remind myself of your rating reasoning. I would have to agree with you, the whole min maxing mentality of playing on Legendary difficulty requires you to start fast and start expanding quickly. I do think however that these ratings would change fairly drastically if you were to play on Very Hard or lower.
Primarily I think Legendary ramps up the AI aggression too much, potential allies can become enemies quickly with the minus to diplomacy. The game basically requires you to be self sustaining and good at growing quickly. This is what I think has informed your decisions the most and why people are disagreeing with you.
Empire's strength is actually really good if you focus diplomacy, even on Legendary being able to get trade deals and target enemies of potential allies can get you to side with very strong nations, or at least buffers for your growth. They also pay you for trade goods, which can make you a decent amount of cash and work well as a way to get a faction to like you.
Diplomacy is a good chunk of this game as it can allow you get get breathing room and focus on the targets that aren't going to ally with you.
I also don't think you probably make good use of campaign effects, as you ranked Tzeentch and the Skaven clans so low. Nurgle also benefits largely from spreading plagues, and debuffing enemy settlements and armies while benefiting your own he also is a defensive faction, pushes slowly, needs time to build his poxes. That doesn't mean the faction is bad necessarily you just need to make sure you don't over expand.
I think Legendary can also strip theme from factions, and forces you to shoehorn factions that don't play fast into a fast playstyle. Wood Elves are actually a powerful faction, but they are a themed faction, your goal is to tend to the forests, and you don't have much care of the outside world. When focusing only working on the forests, you can get really strong. But Legendary's AI aggression makes this difficult.
Vampire Coast makes a lot of its money from Pirate Coves, placed well, and sacking the hell out of everything. In fact practically all evil factions make their money from killing things, sacking, raiding, etc. So their economies do suck but they also make stupid money when post loot and sacking is leveled.
A lot of your criticisms of races on the lower tier are that they don't get going fast. This really throttles a lot of other factions as they aren't all built for that. For example, Tomb Kings are slow because they are what inspired the Necrons, the whole slowly waking up. They are good late game but aren't an expansion faction, you keep to the desert until you build up as that's where almost everything you need is at.
Ultimately my point is I think the game shines at lower difficulties, you are able to experiment and try doing things differently from how you are used to. You can allow yourself to immerse in the faction theme and ideas, to roleplay a little or a lot. Striking a balance between difficulty and fun is something I realized as I have gotten older is way more enjoyable than trying to beat the game's hardest level.
I honestly appreciate the time you took the time to micro analyze all of that, and I know I put Tzeench too low, Skaven probably as well, but this ranking would be the same on lower difficulties as well. On lower difficulties, it would maybe make empire a bit stronger, as the elector counts wouldn't die as fast, but Skaven and Tomb Kings would fight less battles and would take a lot longer to develop.
I didn't just rank them based on how quickly they can get going, as if I did High Elves would be lower down, and I know the Wood Elves are a themed campaign, which is why I ranked them so high, as if I didn't take that into consideration I would have ranked them lower than empire and dawi.
@@CultistOfkhorne Hey thanks! I was hoping to do more of a light critique of your video summarized as "More to a faction's strength then how good they are at attacking and expanding" but most of it was my opinion on Legendary changing the game for worse.
I think I would still disagree with you about the ranking but ultimately it doesn't matter all that much. Wish you the best for your continued growth.
as a chaos dwarf main im glad we are on the high end
Tomb kings is fair* Arkhan belongs in his own tier with the godly early units and immediate second army. More armies = faster research = more armies.
First time i see someone ranking norsca so high
Apparently it comes as a shock to some people, but I don't really get why since they are genuinely strong, the fact they are a meme doesn't change it.
Those dawi and empire changes 👀
Yeah he should've waited for the DLC to see what changes.
I agree I'd put Vampire Coast even lower god I rage quit their campaign more than I can count. I hope The Empire will get some love, also despite Vamps being high on the list their gameplay feels outdated and bland.
Honestly I think the beastmen deserve higher, the absolutely 0 commitment required to anything that you're doing is imo one of the best things you can have, you basically just decide "I'm going to dick with this faction now" and you can just trot on over there and do it with almost 0 consequences. Plus, a healthy number of Ungor raiders focus firing with their own movement speed lets you punch way above your weight class. Personally I prefer their gameplay to even skarbrand, as an avid khorne enjoyer, but there's obviously no way the beastmen get even close to that level of potential power
Tbh the beastmen are very overrated to me, a lot of the time your neighbors will declare war on you and just b line straight to your herdstones and take them before you can complete a ritual, forcing you to keep going back and forth making no progress. And you basically have only one good army for the most part, your armies are trash until you dedicate dread to unit caps.
@@digiorno1142 Herdstones have quite strong garrisons, so they're easy to defend when you're doing manuals
@@indrickboreale7381 No they aren’t. Not on legendary difficulty. And definitely not in the early-mid game when you can’t afford the buildings. The garrisons have basically no ranged units so no dps. I’ve had numerous situations where the ai brings a stupidly powerful army to destroy a herdstone. Anti player bias really hurts the beastmen imo.
kinda a bitch to complete their Long Victory campaigns though, especially Taurox. starts all the way in Naggarond, and his final targets are the empire and France, which means having to plow through a bunch of knife ears. Morghur and Malagor only have a hop, skip and a jump to reach the Empire, and Khazrak just starts there.
@@digiorno1142if your early game is good enough (you need to be very aggressive), you can easily have more than 3 strong armies in mid game. especially if you play with taurox with your rampage extra moves you can just crush all your neighbors and take all ritual points quickly with just taurox's army.
Saw this and i will say i think personally skaven should be higher. All you really need to do is get 4 or 5 units of firewarp throwers, a bunch of skaven slave and you have a relatively cheap army that punches way above its weight class in auto resolve.
Skaven armies are not why they are so low, it is because of their food mechanic and lack of enemies to fight.
With the new DLC, do you think the position of the Empire, Dwarfs and Nurgle changed or not ?
So far I can't say with certainty, I think Nurgle moves to somewhere in the top of the bottom factions, Dawi are the same-ish and Empire is probably one of the stronger factions now, definitely not top 10, but somewhere close.
@@CultistOfkhorne Thanks for your answer ! Yeah cuz i saw your other videos with empire doomstack like outriders and amethyst artillery and it looked strong! Anyway awesome videos as always ;) keep going !
I think that your ranking is just, but you are going into The Book
It's a crime how unfun Nurgle is without Champions of Chaos.
I still have nightmares from playing Nurgle on release :P
I actually just bought this game a couple days ago. never played any total war game.... nurgle was first pick. I have no dlc just warhammer 3. i really thought i wasted my money i just kept getting clapped.
Empire got a huge bonus recently.
Also cathay infantries are few of the best infantries in the game.
Yeah, I made an update video on the empire if you want to watch.
@@CultistOfkhorne I watched it and liked it hahaha.
@@CultistOfkhorne I am honored that you replied btw. :)
О, я рад за Кислев на его 8 месте. Баба Яга(в смысле Матушка Останкия) может обложить проклятьями врага(и на каждого - уникальный сорт дебаффа, хоть шанс провала магии, что понравится Автору), да и остальные хороши своими мультиклассами
11:12 I’d argue the wood elves suffer from being lore accurate 😭😭
Empire is servicable, but Im praying we get our update.
Same
dark elves should be much higher, especially after the chaos dwarf dlc. that dlc improved their slave mechanic and gave them an option to insta build buildings with slaves. this allows you to recruit shades much sooner then previously possible, and shades can carry you straight into the late game without any issues
Disagree with Vampire coast arguments. 1. Fun is subjective, 2. You dont do Empire building with the Coast you do Pirate building, 3. You can have crazy income with very few settlements from pirate coves, raiding, razing settlements and plundering sea wrecks, 4. By my experience my armies by the end game are undefeatable, with insane damage and range you barely suffer casualties and your insane replenishment means you can not be slowed down. I play on hardest difficulty both battle and campaign.
Yeah, fun is subjective, and I don't enjoy v coast because they are poorly designed. You say you make a lot of money from pirate coves. I just streamed a campaign of v coast, the money making buildings for pirate coves are ridiculously expensive, making you a profit after 40 ish turns if placed in a high income settlement like Erengrad. I mean just think about that, building a regular income building makes you a profit after 5 turns + port settlements increase income form all ports + you have a rite that gives you money based on how many capital settlements you own. I was pleasantly surprised how much money they make by razing settlements, but in the long term you can make more by building them up, so you aren't incentivized to blow them up. V coast armies are ridiculously glass cannon, if something comes close to you you are dead, line of sight issues, and short range, not to mention the lack of killing power, makes their armies extremely vulnerable to pretty much anything. Here do me a favor, go into custom battle, take queen bess and shoot some infantry, then take a dread quake mortar and do the same, see what does more damage, and tell me v coast has insane damage afterwards. Actually even caskets of souls probably has more damage and give you power recharge rate.
I get you like cosplaying as a pirate and you love v coast, but they are just poorly designed, Warriors of Chaos are better pirates than Vampire Coast.
could of wait for thrones of decay to come out because i have a feeling it will change a lot
Kind of wanted to do a comparison after the update, which is why I decided to do it now.
I think this list changes depending on difficulty it's played on tbh. As well as what you are trying to achieve. I feel like this list is created with paint the map on L/VH in mind which is fine but there are lots of ways to play the game and have a successful campaign doing so.
Well, there are different way to play the game sure, but I don't think this changes too much when lowering the difficulty, as the top races are still going to dominate.
Also you can have a successful campaign on any difficulty, with any race or faction, but that doesn't mean some of them don't stand above the rest.
I think you should consider the fact that vampire coast isn't a city builder faction. It's more like a horde faction where you just defend your 1 settlement. Take noctilus for example. I just defend my start settlement and sell ever city i plunder and take over to the highest bidder and spam necrofex to dominate in turn 31
Yeah, but they don't have the mechanics for it. I took that into consideration for the Wood Elves as they do. Also look at the Beastmen, they are again a much better version of a semi horde race. Vampire Coast is just rather badly designed and in need of a rework in my opinion, but they are still stronger than races I think to be better implemented. If they just had similar mechanics to Warriors of Chaos I think they would be one of the strongest races.
"breaking news: the god of war is good in a game called total war"
I feel like skaven is better than the Chaos dwarfs. I would argue the early game is similar and skaven have a better late game with heroes and maxed ambush success chances.
Yeah, but with the Chorfs you don't even need to have full stack armies to win battles, because of all the army abilities, and with all the equipment you gain anyone of your lords can become a one man doomstack. Then in the late game Chorfs can increase global recruit capacity and lower the recruit duration, recruit 19 K'daai destroyers in 1 turn, while Skaven can't.
I can't agree enough on your list, overall perfect positioning except for Kislev that I would have put much lower in the 14 or 15th place. I just found their economy too weak early game, and not all kislev factions have good base mechanics like katarin or kostaltyn And also I would put tomb kings much higher. While they keep their diesel power very low in early game, more you are aggresive and take much lands, more your empire will skyrocket in economy and research rate to add more dynasties. They got really cheap building, it doesn't look like much, but it adds a lot to the overall income.
Except these 2 I would keep your list like that because I agree on most of the comments you have made lol.
Maybe I was being too generous with Kislev, but I feel like their campaign is much stronger than you might think. Also believe me, I love playing the Tomb Kings, so putting them that low was a bummer for me, but unless you are playing Arkhan they just feel so slow to get started and they have a limit to the amount of armies you can have. I can't remember what it is exactly, but I think it is a bit more than 16, which just further cements their place so far down.
think dark elves snowballs super early with the rush build and generally god teir 3 unit with dark ark
Not long ago I played Daniel's WH3 Campain and I rarely played a worse LL I was playing on NORMAL difficulty and he was getting hard soloed by Valkia 20 levels behind, terrible experience, also he almost died in the first round of the final battle.
Helman Ghost enjoyer here. But i gotta say i love the Dwarfs, and Nurgle. I hope Thrones of Decay will buff them..
they did, a lot, imagine being able to crank out a ton of free armies at once in the late game.
I agree with most except tzeench. Tzeench is easily the most powerful faction in the game, even more powerful than Khorne. And it's understandable that personal bias likely play well into the ranking but it's very clear that you don't understand how tzeench works.
You can literally force an opponent to LOSE TWO TURNS, STEAL SETTLEMEMTS, FORCE PEACE (useful when some faction is about to attack a weak point), GAIN AN EXTRA MOVE, OPEN EVER GATE IN EVERY SEIGE, AND START EVERY FIGHT AS AN AMBUSH. Your best units can fly and you have flying flamethrowers, FLYING FLAMETHROWERS!!! But magic is the real weapon and you will control YOUR OWN access to it.
I don't have 3000 hours, only 1200 but it's very clear you have not spent real campaign time learning tzeench. His faction is stupidly OP. I know most folks get intimidated by Teclis and Oxy being starter enemies, but they are far easier to manage after this past update.
So Give tzeench another shot and maybe you'll see what I'm talking about.
Yeah, I more than likely did Tzeentch dirty, but I wouldn't really say he is better than Khorne, and yeah I should play another Kairos campaign to try and get a better feel for it.
Dude you can't make video if you don't have achievements with every faction. It shows. I understand Khorne being n.1 even though I disagree because yes, you can win campaign in 8 turns but you need to fight everything manually because auto-resolve is Khorne's biggest enemy
Next Vampire Counts. I disagree again. Ghorst zombies may be op. Vlad's healing may be op. Yet they get screwed by auto-resolve as well. They have at least raise the dead which helps a bit. Their diplomacy is garbage and everyone hates them so you are often fighting battles on multiple fronts and since you need to fight with quantity over quality you need to cheese battles to win effectively. Late game vampires have really hard time catching up to some of the other races in terms of battles as well.
My biggest LOL was when I saw Bretonnia on rank 14. This is just so wrong. Faction is strong as in the early game as well as it is in the late game. It has incredibly powerful lords, good magic, strong economy and your late game armies are basically unstoppable. You can go no problem 1v3 armies and have heroic victory with minimal losses. Fully buffed grail guardians can fight Malus Darkblade. Also their diplomacy is great which makes for easy campaign because you can pick your enemies and have secure borders. Definitely should be in top 3.
Kislev and Cathay below Norsca is another great joke. After DLC update these factions are beefed up incredibly. They are very strong in auto-resolve, have great diplomacy, economy, strong armies, and in Cathay's case lords who can solo enemy armies. As with Bretonnia you can easily go against your odds being outnumbered and win.
Tzeentch too low as well. Normally I would agree. DLC however gave him everything the faction needed and it is now on a whole different power level. Probably one of the best economies from the chaos factions. Incredible magic, almost cheating faction mechanics, better auto-resolve than before (probably the best from the monogod factions) His only downside is horrible starting location and boring tech tree. (I mean Kairos, I'm not talking about Changeling as that is unrankable IMHO)
Ummm, I don't really understand you, sometimes you say having to manually resolve everything is bad and sometimes you say it is good? Also what do achievements have to do with anything, I won 5 Brettonia campaigns before they even got an achievement for it. I still don't have the achievement for winning their campaign even though I have a save where I achieved all 4 victories. I ranked everything based on how I saw it perform in my campaigns, like I said I don't play some of these race all that often I will admit to maybe not ranking some of them properly, but I can't make heads or tails of what your reasoning is for most of them.
Vampire Counts just cant be slowed down, by the time you reach turn 60 with them you will have 100+ settlements.
Kislev and Cathay are also really strong, but you can do so much better with Norsca. Norsca just has better economy, better technology, and better late game bonuses. For the top races who cares about diplomacy, you can basically just demolish any faction you come across.
I love lizard men😢
Araby is #1 😂
My only experience with Nurgle is the realms of chaos and by God did I scrape up a win, I wasn't able to get through the gates 2 times, and had to ambush Nakari so he wouldn't win, without the DLC it is challenging, but also quite fun despite it, it was the first time I actually felt challenged since Cathay and Kislev were much easier, Kislev was just hell at the beginning and I had to redo the campaign early though
its hard to make a ranking for these. there are so many things to consider, so its normal for people to disagree. however! the changeling literraly can not lose his campaign unless on purpose, will teleport ambush every time and can become the most powerful character as he can change into anyone and can get the chainsword. put on top of that his changing of ways mechanic and how his cult buildings work, i see nothing else topping him. the only way i can see him lose is via snikch kill faction mechanic, but im not even sure that can happen? must be hell to fight him in a pvp campaign
u can be the game faster with Eltharion 5:48 i think is current record plus skaven at 13, im not sure if this a bad take or a lot of bias
I don't really understand what you timestamped there, and a lot of people do say that the Skaven placement is bad, but at the time it fit because of the food situation, where it was fairly difficult to get it going, slowing down their campaign. Now though I would have to play more Skaven see how it is currently.
@@CultistOfkhorne nah mate I was saying someone beat the game in 5 mins and 48 seconds as elth so that’s surely the fastest campaign finish not khorne
If you are referring to the Warhammer 2 Eltharion vortex campaign, wasn't that done in 1 turn where you had to wait out the timer for the final battle. If not link me what you are talking about.
@@CultistOfkhorne yeah man thats the one ! and i think the record is like 3/4 turns i know legend did 7 turns when it was brand new, man its wired thinking the vortex campaign is gone now
Louen with 19 hypogryph knights = rank 1
What about Bel'akor with 18 bloodthirsters and a Nurgle healer?
@CultistOfkhorne they'd be sacrificed in the name of the lady
Hard agree on Tzeentch and Bretonnia.
Bretonnia isnt bad, its just that theyre boring.
But Tzeentch kinda sucks. The changing of the ways COULD be good, but it takes forever to get enough grimoirs to break alliance/force war, and you gotta wait forever for take settlement.
I feel like the people saying tzeentch is OP dont actually play tzeentch
We should have update of V. Coast and Tomb K.
Why, they haven't been changed at all?
Should give another try to Tzeentch. Who cares about spamming armies when you can ambush every single battle with the teleportation stance. Plus, Kairos is a one man army and can take care of a few late game armies on its own quite easily.
There is a reason why Tzeentch ends up being rank 1 to almost every single campaign.
Yeah, I probably should, I played 2 campaigns of it, but in both I just didn't feel like the faction was all that strong. Kairos is definitely amazing, but Tzeentch as a whole just feels bad.
@@CultistOfkhorne to be honest no, tzeentch isnt a normal, nor even a bad race. His armies on late end up being stupid with soo much power that even things like skaven end game scenarios for me end up quicly. Tzeentch just requieres two things:
Construct a lot, and i mean a lot of biblioteques, they will finish youre entire tech tree as fast as turn 40 and give a greath ammount of grimmoires per turn (on a campaing by turn 60 i ended every turn with 230 grimmoires).
Dont throw grimories on everything, just wait for the perfect momment, like i did on a campaing i played with my brother and start a world war between 4 different factions and each one being on top 5 (gringor, karaz az karak, slaanesh (for some reason on that campaing end up owning ulthuan) and eastern provinces) while preventing my brother to take repercusions on the campaing.
By final, there are some tips, teleport instance can atack enemies on the sea and force them to atack you, youre endgame units are broken on many instances: chosen, doom knights, mutalith, changebringers, lord of change and soulgrinders work really well in soo many scenarios and at last if youre a guy who likes to cheese, just buy an entire army of lord of change with every technolgy and yeah that bullshit is just an macro error, i remenber using it for a 4 armies of skaven (yeah i did the same of the video of lord of change doomstack) and end up without losing a single unit, while i destroy everysingle army.
Tzeentch is never rank 1, it’s almost always Tyrion, Grimgor, or Malekith.
@@digiorno1142 we dont play the same campaign then ... playing in legendary?
@@WalterSobchack51 Yes I play on legendary. The ai factions that are consistently strength rank 1 are Tyrion, Malekith, and some Greenskin usually Grimgor or Wurzag.
I think you should put grand Cathay much higher because you can sustain an absurd amount of armies because of the harmony.also their units are super good for their tier for example jade warriors are so good that u can recrute them until the late game. I played multiplayer campaign and they are one of the strongest. Especially against melee focused armies
Yeah, no I took all of that into consideration, and the difference between Cathay and Kislev is very miniscule, so you could be right about that, but higher than Kislev I don't think Cathay belongs.
I heard that if you spam plagues, nergal is very strong
Not really, you can't spam out that many plagues, and they usually override one another so they end up wasting your infections.
Dwarfs, Empire and Nurgle didn't aged well in this video ranking. ^^
Yeah, but I did do a reevaluation of them as separate videos.
Bretonnia has no business being that low. Having no supply lines as well as life magic puts them above at least half the other races. They can literally spam lords early game. On top of that they have one of the best economies in the game and good post battle loot. The only downside is the vow mechanic.
Yeah, I know all that which is why I put them so high, like I said they take too long to get going and by the time they do other races will already have ended their campaign.
@@CultistOfkhorneSlower than other races like chaos dwarfs, kislev, or dark elves? Yeah don’t know about that one bro. Bretonnia has extremely high growth and great public order, and like I said can straight up spam lords. Bretonnia is a race that’s strong in early and late game for this exact reason.
Well, up to you if you want to believe me or not. I think I ranked them pretty high already, they aren't that weak, being just below the average. You really shouldn't be comparing them to Chorfs though, as Chorfs just have 10 times the tools to use in their campaigns, no supply lines, lower upkeep lords that can be more powerful, and no matter how strong peasant archers are they will never outperform hobgoblins.
@@CultistOfkhorne I was responding to you saying that other factions will have already won the game by the time Bretonnia gets going, which is no offense idiotic and far from true. I don’t think Bretonnia is as strong as the chorfs. But to say Bretonnia is below average is just silly and biased. They are objectively a strong race. Their tech tree is one of the best in the game, they have one of the best base economies with farms without boosting anything, they have extremely high post battle loot for an order faction, they have no supply lines with very strong lords, they have lore of life spellcasters(yes that is a significant bonus), they have great base public order, they have absurdly high growth and can get high tier settlements quickly. I don’t see how a race like Kislev can be higher than them considering they have a far worse economy and marginally better early game army, their starting position is significantly harder dealing with Thrott, Drycha, Azazel, Azhag, Norsca, etc. Kislev also has some of the worst magic in the entire game. What are the downsides to Bretonnia again? A vow system requiring some tediousness? Bretonnia has to be the most overhated race in the whole game for no reason.
I didn't mean literally won, but rather achieved critical mass and have become unstoppable. Also I'm not biased against Bretonnia, as i really enjoy playing them, and would rather play them over Norsca, but that doesn't mean they are stronger.
I agree with your list. The order doesn't matter too much. I think everyone agree that nurgle, ogres, empire and dwarfs are in a very bad spot. But IMO, Daniel should be the worst faction in the game. At least with nurgle you can spam heroes and steamroll the AI with impunity.
To be honest the only reason Daniel is above Nurgle is because he can actually recruit units somewhat normally and not other reason.
Khorne needs ranged units. A bit biased to put khorne as strongest. but its for campaign
Oh yeah, I wasn't referring to multiplayer battles, just campaign.
You could have 1 million million universes. And throughout all of them 1 thing would stay the same: there is no timeline where the skaven, the empire, the chaos dwarves, and normal dwarves are below THE NORSCA. Brettonia is the empire but worse, skaven have the 2nd best ranged roster in the game + undercities for infinite money and being able to make 5 armies out of nowhere that have no upkeep. Chaos dwarves have the best ranged units and artillery in the game as well as the tankieness that comes with being a stunty. And i don't even know what's going on with how broken fealty and college of wizards are for the empire.
I have update videos on Dwarfs, Empire and Nurgle if you want to check them out, there were even video cards in those sections for you to follow. And yeah Bretonnia is now a step weaker than both the empire and dwarfs. As for Norsca, I mean you talk like some one who has never played them, they get insane post battle loot by fighting battles and sacking settlements, insane income from ports, and can after 20ish turns just recruit frost trolls in a single turn globally. So basically a full troll doomstack every 2 to 3 turns, and you think that isn't going to be stronger than the lower ranks who will need more time to get their best units, or at that pace while not even being able to compete with their economy. I mean come one, they are unupdated monkeys, but they can conquer the world with ease.
@@CultistOfkhorne Skaven can get ratling guns and warplock jezzails by turn 2. You're right that i never played norsca but they have just been a punching bag faction for a.while and i just didn't notice them being buffed.
Ratling gunners are much worse than trolls for the early campaign, and you need to give them the best possible setup to be strong, whereas with trolls you can just right click. Another big problem with the Skaven is they can't support as many armies as Norsca can, so while weapon team armies are strong, you can't have many of them, and Norsca can just spam out armies whenever and wherever they want.
I also don't know what you mean by punching bag faction? When played by the A.I. of course they are going to be bad, but when played by the player they are one of the strongest races in the game currently. They are buggy, unpolished, bland, but they are strong.
@@CultistOfkhorne This is not even worth arguing anymore, point is: the skaven have a very strong economy because almost every building makes money, some of the most powerful ranged units in the game by turn 2 ( even if we ignore ratlings you can still get warplocks and bombardiers at the same time), workable frontlines, and nukes. Norsca have max level garrisons that are worse than wulfric's starting army. nuff said goodbye!
I persoanly just play for fun so it dont really matter to me what i play. I love playing Skarbrand though. Took over the entire Realm of Chaos map destroying every single faction. Also i love play nkari and valkia.
This isn't really a fun ranking though, as if it was Tomb Kings would be top 6.
@@CultistOfkhorne true logically. I just wanted to say what i personally like playing :D
where is Tretch?😮
In Eltharions dungeon :P
seeing this video after thrones of decay was released i rly thought hard and nope this list not representing it any more at all, dwarfs are now completly op empire with elspeth are also a top faction and nurgle got a super heavy faction with tamurkhan
I made updated rankings for each of them if you want to check them out.
The most boring to play has to be bretonnia tho. For all practial purposes they only have four units (infantry, archers, cavalry and trabuchets) and of those, you have to rely on the cavalry the most. Hope you like having to hammer and anvil cycle charge every battle with every lord the entire campaign, because all your armies are gonna look pretty much the same. Add to that the fact their only lord and hero options are "generic fighter dude" and "generic mage lady". If they were a flavor of ice cream it would be water
Sad, but mostly true. Some times though it can be relaxing to play a campaign like that.
@@CultistOfkhorne Idk man, the only campaign mechanics they have are weaknesses. That didnt relax me any of the times I tried giving them an opportunity. Maybe if I held on until I could start snowballing it wouldve been different, but since I found them so repetitive to play as I couldnt even do that
In the lore they have some Robin Hood like guys called Herrimaults and Faceless, which could be units of stealth archers, and ranged heroes or lords that buff peasants to the point of being able to win battles on their own. That would introduce some variety. But the peasant units themselves that we have so far are so plain, that it may not even be enough
Hard to do a ranking, as certain lords can play so different. Snikch for example is super strong for the Skaven. Arkhan is really good for the tomb kings.
Kislev is imo to high.
I don`t agree on Khorne, as somehow you can loose this campaign if you loose a battle or take to much casualties.
VC or Greenskins, that`s pretty hard to loose, even if you try. Also, Archaeon, how do you loose that campaign?
There`s an extrem imbalance to factions that are really good early game, and VC basically has access to late game units, great heros. Same for Greenskins and Whaag, just a crazy meachanic that lets you steamroll everything without your late game armies being weak.
I mean, I tried to generalize it as much as I could and it is mostly based on my experience with the game, so I know it isn't perfect, but its the best I could make it.
I am quite sure that Cathay should be above Kislev, and possibly even above high elves. Letsdo comparison to Kislev. Cathay has a lot beater economy, their starting area is more defendable, and their armies are a....bit beater than Kislev. In tier 0 Kislev might be beater, but after that Cathay armies are beater, and they buff their units more meaningfully through red line skills. Like Kislev will buff archers melee defence, or lineholders firepower even if sometimes they don't have ranged attacks.
As for high elves Cathay economy is still superior and I think that it is enough even if their early game armies are possibly a bit weaker.
I don't think you played High Elves enough if you think Cathay economy is better, as High Elves have the best economy in the game.
As for Kislev you could make the argument, but it mostly depends on how well you play Kislev early on, as if you are aggressive enough and confederate the other Kislev factions you can occupy a lot of territory and surpass Cathay in every way. In a campaign where you go at the same pace though, then yeah you could say Cathay is better.
@@CultistOfkhorne I think you seeing Kislev as more powerfull is fair. If you can gain more power from some faction compared to others it more powerfull faction should go on top on your own list. I would say Cathay is more easy faction, but you might be right that you can't expand as efficiently.
However I do still think Cathay has more powerful economy. I can't open the game right now, but looking from wikia, Cathay has cheaper tier 0 units, and while they are not as good, jade warriors are beater units than elven spearmen, while having same upkeep cost. Also from main economy building tier 3 High elves get base line 200 gold with tradable recources while Cathay gets either 200 gold with bonus money from traide tarrifs or 250 gold. However Cathay can get extra 15% from harmony and 6% more from growth building.
Two things I don't think you are taking into consideration, but High Elves double their income when they reach 100 public order, which isn't hard to do, and there is a skill in the skill tree of generic lords that increases income by 1% which stacks indefinitely. So really there is no race, but maybe the Dark Elves, who can ever beat the High Elves in the amount of income they can get.
@@CultistOfkhorne I had complitely forgotten about both of those things. I would say that it is not doubled, but 65% increase from max happiness (15% from baseline happiness and 50% from buildings) and that lord chease will only become available at the end game. I do still think that Cathay has beater early game economy where it can be more impactfull, but I agree that overall high elves have beater economy.
can you remake this video post ToD I'd by interested to see if the rankings change heaps.
I was planning on doing an update video of sorts, so yeah I will try to.
for me chaos dwarf its more strong faction in late literally have units strong for air,land,beast,distance.
the differences in strength among the factions inside the races alone make this ranking quite pointless
BUT it is a fun vid
I mean there is one faction in every race that is an exception and doesn't follow this, but I do mostly make these to be informative and entertaining, so I'm glad you enjoyed it!
I've played the N'kari campaign twice, the worst time I had with this game. Terrible, terrible, terrible time
You should be ranking factions, not single lords. Skarbrand is one of the best lords cause his movement reset synergizes with khorne raise armies mechanic. Khorne as a a faction is among the weakest factions imo
I mean, not really, you get armies recruited in a single turn for free, I think you underestimate that way too much. Even if Skarbrand couldn't demolish the entire map in a single turn, Khorne would still be the strongest race in the game, but I guess we will see that when new Khorne factions get added.
I hoped for vampire coast to be hire idk if i am weird or something but i just love the units, Help me
Nah the units are fine, well mostly, its how bad they perform on the campaign map that is the issue.
Ok, A Cultist of Khorne think Khorne is the rank 1 of all. making sense to me😂, a true devotee to say the least.
3 ogre can beat entire bretonia army
3 ogre armies? Yes.
Look I'm rating this based on how you as the player can play the race, not how strong the AI is with the race.
no way youre saying 0 upkeep orion is 15th
Wood elves are 15 not just Orion, and I personally kind of don't like that mechanic, as in order to get 0 upkeep you have to go to war with every faction you can, which just kind of ruins the campaign for me.
@@CultistOfkhorne at the start its a hassle but once you get going you can essentially keep factions as war slaves and bring them down to 1 minor settlement and sack it whenever they get a force
Nurgle has no place being on 24, if you dont know how to play him cant say hes bad.
But I do know how to play him, I played more than 10 campaigns of Ku'gath, some that lasted for more than 100 turns. Nurgle is just a terribly designed race nothing more to it, it's fine if you like to play it, but it doesn't change the fact.
@@CultistOfkhorne You made my 17 soulgrinders of nurgle doomstack cry :(
I hope you're proud of yourself.
Vanilla Tomb kings suck but the extended mod is super buff
kairos start position is a complete joke
lol we are clearly not playing the same game here. Its a terrible ranking... You clearly haven't played some factions. 1:Changeling (brokenly easy and impossible to lose.). 2: Khorne. Then in order. Cathay (completely broken economy. No problem with 15-20 doomstacks and still make 40+ k a turn. Only weakness mid to late game is you can't churn out doomstacks fast enough to use all the income. They need a massive nerf.) WoC. Skaven. Beastmen. Greenskins. Chorfs. Tzeentch. (only weakness is economy) These factions are miles ahead of anyone else. Frankly they ain't playing the same game as the rest.
Umm, I wasn't ranking factions thought, I was trying to rank the race as a whole. Some factions are so different form the race they are in you cant even say they belong there, such as with the Changeling and Nakai. Most factions in the races follow this sort of generalization I did.
wow I came here to see if nurgle is awful or if I'm just bad... the orcs have like 8 armies with waaaaaghh or whatever going and I can't do shit lmao
This is a bit outdated, I did a separate video where I reevaluated Nurgle after Thrones of Decay, and now he is somewhere in the middle of the strength ranking, nowhere near as weak as he used to be.
I am agree with you a for lot of choices but wood elves ? hell no, good video anyways
Warriars of chaos norsca skaven wood elves chaos dwarves
I think Tomb kings and especially Tzeentch are too low. I would at least put them above the Coast/Empire, maybe even above Lizardmen. Tzeentch is probably even top 10 material, definitely not Tomb Kings.
With the Tomb kings yeah you could make the argument for them being higher than Empire or Coast, but with Tzeentch I honestly haven't a clue.
You have a extremely strong roster with top notch infantry, ranged units and now even monsters, the changing of the ways is also very OP and basically allows you to completely troll your enemy. Only downsides is economy is not good, but tbh the things I listed above put Tzeentch at the very least above races like Lizardmen and Dawi.
where coby briyant
Very interesting, will be waiting for top of the weakest factions in the game🎮
im not sure if this is shitpost list or legit T.T
Why wouldn't it be real? :P
What do you disagree with?
kostkonjeeee
Beastmen should be much higher
Maybe above Kislev and Cathay, but I definitely wouldn't put them any higher than that.
not sure abt the ranking tbh ...
Everyone is going to have a different opinion :P