During the building of my Long-Ez I had a good opportunity of having a Lycoming O-320 completely overhauled for a good price but had to preserve it while building. My solution at the time was to build my own dry box dehumidifier. It served me well for a period of over ten years with minimal effort of changing the desiccant every 3 -4 weeks. The parts I used were as follows: An air-tight plastic food container, an aquarium air pump, desiccant, plastic/silicon tube and a timer. The method of operation was simple: block off exhaust outlets (I used plastic stoppers), for long term storage I blocked off the carburetor, insert tube into dipstick and the other into the breather pipe (both sealed). This was so successful I still use it today after each flight by fully closing throttle and blocking off exhaust pipes with plastic stoppers. The only difference now is that I've converted to 12v and a battery (no power in the hangar). With a very wet environment in the UK I can still maintain and average 35% humidity in the crankcase.
When I stored my IO360 in my unheated garage last winter, I made my own drybox out of an oxygen humidifier bottle, some desiccant, and a modified aquarium air pump. I pushed the dry air into the dipstick hole and out through the breather back to the pump. Sealed with some vinyl tape. Now that it is installed and living at the hangar, I need a better solution. I think I'll go with a 100 watt heater and blankets. Thanks for the video.
You are the first person to mention dry box that I've seen. I think that is a fantastic investment, especially for the high humidity states like Florida where I'm at. Thanks! Love watching you do all kinds of ingenious stuff to your cozy. Lots of great ideas and tips. Looking forward to your next post. Subscribed.
It's the musician coming out in you; why you pay attention to sound. I would not have noticed if you hadn't said something. Glad you make sure your videos are good quality. Keep up the excellent work.
You forgot one important aspect, and that's plugging. The exhaust pipe from letting condensation go up into the engine, corroding one of the exhaust valves that has to be opened and corroding the cylinder
Nice overview. Thank you. You covered a lot of things I have learned over the years. I have a Tanis connected to a Swicheon, use Cam Guard, use an engine dehumidifier, leave the filler cap loose with a flag, keep the plane in a hangar and cover the cowl with a blanket. Not to far from you. Based at CAK.
Great technical information. Although I am not a pilot I enjoy studying aviation, especially aviation engines as for part of my career I was a gas turbine mechanic.
- There is probably a good reason why they use the thick oil. But my simple brains wonders why they don't use less thick oil and avoid all those preheating tricks 🤣
Aircraft engines tend to operate at or near full power most of the time, thinning out the oil. Auto engines spend a lot of time at low RPM, and need to have cold start drivability, needing thinner oil. Great video and good tips.
Viscosity reduces with heat. Engine tolerances change with heat, particularly in air cooled engines. Thin oil is great for tight tolerances, and high temp - which is what you have with a warm engine. The issue is viscosity. That is why oil for old and worn engines is more viscous, it needs to make up for the wear by filling spaces.
Darylwalker is correct. Aircraft engines are air cooled and must necessarily have relatively looser cylinder ring piston tolerances compared to liquid cooled engines. Therefore thicker oils required to ameliorate the wider and more changing tolerances. The video did a good job explaining reasons for pre-heating. Most pilots believe pre-heating is simply for easier starts but it is more to mitigate engine wear.
Interesting info about the, "Oil"..... while most cars use variances of lighter oils, living in a hot place causes me to run a heavier oil. For reference I use a 50w racing oil in my 5.7L truck but from what you are saying it sounds like your oil might be thicker than that? I do know when it's cold that I change the oil to a lighter oil but that's only 2 months of the year here & some years you don't have to worry. So your oil is thick & do you have any trouble keeping the oil hot once you're in flight? Nice content.
Airplane engines are basically glorified tractor engines from the 1940's. The tolerances in them are nowhere near the tight tolerances you see in today's automobiles. Our cars have those tight tolerances and thin oil for the purpose of friction reduction and improved mileage. The larger tolerances in our aircraft engines require a thicker oil layer to provide sufficient lubrication. Good question about in-flight temperatures. It is a problem for sure, in the colder months. We normally have oil coolers on our engines, and it is very possible in cold weather to have oil that is too cold. Many airplanes will have covers that go over the oil cooler to partially or completely block it for fight in cold weather.
When I think about all the engines in production at any given time I'm amazed at how few of them are slated as usable in the aviation sector? Before looking at planes I'd never heard of Rotax Engines although I have seen them reaching over into pontoon boats but these engines are underwater & I question how long they can keep the water OUT? Thanks for your time, I try to make sense of this stuff & you manage to make me ask more questions, ever been a professor? You come off as caring in a way that made me ask that too. Thanks for making my Saturday night, "All That" ?!! peace
@@diggy-d8w Thanks for the kind words. If you think about airplane (and boat, for that matter) engines, they have a very different application than most vehicles. Cars and motorcycles very rarely are putting out their maximum rated power, and when they are, it's for a very brief period of acceleration. Most of the time, they are just loafing along. Airplanes on the other hand run for extended periods of time at 100% full power output.
@@CanardBoulevard Yes, I knew that of the aircraft engines but my mind is still trying to understand the differences as they are distinctly different applications. Whatever those are, I like the "pusher" configuration of your plane. Well, I like more than that but I'm not really qualified to say much of importance. I like it's harder to stall & that something about the small front wings cause it to almost fly itself? Thanks for sharing all of this stuff & your Synth Stuff ! I'm there too! peace, see ya tomorrow
I knew someone was going to ask about that. :) I had thought about it, I made mine out of some parts that I had sitting around, but it costs me $25/month in cell fees to have it. That's $300 a year. For $300 you can buy a commercial unit that costs nothing in fees...and I will probably do this at some point.
My background is mostly as a pilot/mechanic on Turbin helicopters. As a result, I am used synthetic motor oils, and we could start as low as 20° below zero Fahrenheit with no problems. As a result when I got my Long EZ I switched it to Aeroshell 15W50 synthetic engine oil, and had no problems getting immediate oil pressure on start up at temps of 20 degrees F. What type of engine oil do you use?
I am also using Aeroshell 15W50. It's a great (not inexpensive!) oil. But I can definitely tell a difference between starting the engine cold and preheated. If it is 50 degrees out and I crank the engine to start, it's going to crank more sluggishly, and take a bit more time before it lights off and starts, and oil pressure takes longer to come up. If I have preheated it first, it starts INSTANTLY and oil pressure is there right away.
@@CanardBoulevardWeird. I really do get excellent cranking down into the '40s for sure, and even lower than that. It could have something to do with batteries and starters, and of course I have a small engine, an 0235. The important thing is I immediately see oil pressure with 15W50. I've put a thousand hours on my airplane, and my screens never show any metal at all, so it seems to be working.
Great video, really interesting content throughout. 12:07 leaving the oil filler cap off - at some times of year (I think it's a few weeks in early Fall around here) there is a massive amount of dew/condensation on anything metal that's outside (or in a shed) at sunset & overnight. On those occasions I think I'd rather have the filler cap fitted. Use of °F throughout does get tiresome, as I just don't know what sort of temperatures you're talking about. 45 years ago I might have had relatively little preference (for temps above freezing) but these days my °F interpretation has pretty much gone! Maybe (as you put so much effort into editing anyway) you could just flash the °C as text on the screen when you mention a temperature. (Which is a lot in this video).
Hi Marc, I had heard this anecdotally from a couple of people and didn't put much faith in it, but then I heard the exact same thing in a pre-heating webinar given by Doug Evink, CEO of Tanis Systems, so I did some more research. The "50%" value came from Doug. I did not come across any published studies, but I did come across someone who did a test by putting a plastic bag over the dipstick tube after removing the dipstick, and allowing the engine to cool - and he had photos of a fair amount of condensed water that ended up on the inside of the bag after it had cooled.
This same engine oil temp/engine temp issue is also why short trips in your car are more detrimental to it's engine health than actual miles driven. EVERY engine cycle in your car/ airplane should get up to full operating temperature to boil off that condensate moisture in the oil. At one point in my working career, I lived just about a mile from work. I walked to work - even in the dead of a sub-freezing/sub-zero Cleveland OH winter - rather than driving - because it just wasn't worth it. I'm not just talking about the time scraping the windows, but for the wear/tear/abuse of my car's engine. Unless you get that engine to full operating temp for at least 15 minutes, you are doing more harm than good!
100% correct. I'm also in the Cleveland area, and I loved having a plug-in hybrid car that I could drive to work in. I would go months in the winter without ever starting my engine for my short commute.
I could very easily build my own - I know very well how they work. Most use dessicant beds that need to be restored manually from time to time. The genius of the Drybot is that it uses a dessicant bed, but it regenerates itself when needed, without having to take it apart. It's probably a bit expensive for what it is, but it works.
Cranking with the throttle wide open causes the starter to work harder, not easier. It also loads the bearings more. Why? The engine compresses that air. So, more air more compression, more force needed.
The engine is going to compress the air regardless of whether the throttle is open or not. The amount of air pressure before the compression stroke will be MARGINALLY less with the throttle closed, but not enough to make much difference in terms of the compression stroke. Having the throttle closed however means the engine also has resistance against the intake stroke, as it is pulling against vacuum created by the closed throttle plate. This is common practice - in motorsports, when we want to crank an engine, the ignition and fuel is shut off and throttle wide open for least resistance. You can try it yourself: pull mixture to idle/cutoff, turn off your mags, then crank your engine. While doing so, move the throttle from closed to wide open - you'll find the engine crank RPM increases with the throttle wide open.
Look at the Tg temperature of your epoxy system that was used to build your plane. My MSG is high at about 160-180° F without post cure and over 210°F with post curing. Yours is probably around 160°F on the top end. Most Cozy builders do not have the equipment to do a post cure of a fuselage. I would never use a forced air heater that is over 60°C. It could damage any of your structual areas at the firewall, or maybe you'd get a good post cure out of it. 😅
A good point, but the cowl and firewall are not getting anywhere even remotely close to Tg in my application. The cowl is slightly warm to the touch, but not much more. The engine is getting the vast majority of the heat. In fact, the firewall (it's covered in stainless) actually is still cool - all the heat is going to the bottom of the engine (the sump) and then up through the cylinder fins and out the back of the cowl. I can say that the cowl and firewall experience FAR more heat from the engine running normally on a hot day than they do from my forced air preheat.
The more ambient noise there is, the worse the artifacts. I tested it at home and it seemed pretty capable, but as soon as there was the reverberation of the hangar, it turned all swirly like you hear in the video.
@@CanardBoulevardI think the electric air heaters or even the lightbulb are superior because they cause the least amounts of condensation (from unevenly heated surfaces) and a low consistent heat, also you can feel more comfortable leaving it plugged in indefinitely for the winter season and not spend extra money on timers and switches that could need Cellular data if your airport has no Wi-Fi or is kind of far to drive just to plug it in the night before. I think you did a great job explaining. Might I suggest heating from the top down so the hot air doesn't rise and condensate on you cam or crank before it gets evenly heated. I recently bought a twin hornet 22 which is basically a thermostat controlled internal forced air heater, seems to be working great so far keeping to the oil at about 80F with a couple of blankets.
![NEW! Most Affordable Aircraft Engine! ZD Zongshen [FULL INTERVIEW] Clone Wars Rotax Vs. ZD CKD Aero](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2RhL6DeMGYI/mqdefault.jpg)
![NEW! Most Affordable Aircraft Engine! ZD Zongshen [FULL INTERVIEW] Clone Wars Rotax Vs. ZD CKD Aero](/img/tr.png)
During the building of my Long-Ez I had a good opportunity of having a Lycoming O-320 completely overhauled for a good price but had to preserve it while building. My solution at the time was to build my own dry box dehumidifier. It served me well for a period of over ten years with minimal effort of changing the desiccant every 3 -4 weeks. The parts I used were as follows: An air-tight plastic food container, an aquarium air pump, desiccant, plastic/silicon tube and a timer. The method of operation was simple: block off exhaust outlets (I used plastic stoppers), for long term storage I blocked off the carburetor, insert tube into dipstick and the other into the breather pipe (both sealed). This was so successful I still use it today after each flight by fully closing throttle and blocking off exhaust pipes with plastic stoppers. The only difference now is that I've converted to 12v and a battery (no power in the hangar). With a very wet environment in the UK I can still maintain and average 35% humidity in the crankcase.
When I stored my IO360 in my unheated garage last winter, I made my own drybox out of an oxygen humidifier bottle, some desiccant, and a modified aquarium air pump. I pushed the dry air into the dipstick hole and out through the breather back to the pump. Sealed with some vinyl tape. Now that it is installed and living at the hangar, I need a better solution. I think I'll go with a 100 watt heater and blankets. Thanks for the video.
You are the first person to mention dry box that I've seen. I think that is a fantastic investment, especially for the high humidity states like Florida where I'm at. Thanks! Love watching you do all kinds of ingenious stuff to your cozy. Lots of great ideas and tips. Looking forward to your next post.
Subscribed.
It's the musician coming out in you; why you pay attention to sound. I would not have noticed if you hadn't said something.
Glad you make sure your videos are good quality. Keep up the excellent work.
Love the videos. Extremely informative. Thank you Scott for sharing your knowledge!
Thank you so much for the very kind words!
You forgot one important aspect, and that's plugging. The exhaust pipe from letting condensation go up into the engine, corroding one of the exhaust valves that has to be opened and corroding the cylinder
That is a good point, I always plug my exhaust pipes when my plane is parked.
Good video, thanks for the links. Ciao, Marco.
Nice overview. Thank you. You covered a lot of things I have learned over the years. I have a Tanis connected to a Swicheon, use Cam Guard, use an engine dehumidifier, leave the filler cap loose with a flag, keep the plane in a hangar and cover the cowl with a blanket.
Not to far from you. Based at CAK.
Sounds like your engine loves you! :)
Great technical information. Although I am not a pilot I enjoy studying aviation, especially aviation engines as for part of my career I was a gas turbine mechanic.
- There is probably a good reason why they use the thick oil. But my simple brains wonders why they don't use less thick oil and avoid all those preheating tricks 🤣
Aircraft engines tend to operate at or near full power most of the time, thinning out the oil. Auto engines spend a lot of time at low RPM, and need to have cold start drivability, needing thinner oil. Great video and good tips.
Viscosity reduces with heat. Engine tolerances change with heat, particularly in air cooled engines. Thin oil is great for tight tolerances, and high temp - which is what you have with a warm engine. The issue is viscosity. That is why oil for old and worn engines is more viscous, it needs to make up for the wear by filling spaces.
Darylwalker is correct. Aircraft engines are air cooled and must necessarily have relatively looser cylinder ring piston tolerances compared to liquid cooled engines. Therefore thicker oils required to ameliorate the wider and more changing tolerances. The video did a good job explaining reasons for pre-heating. Most pilots believe pre-heating is simply for easier starts but it is more to mitigate engine wear.
Interesting info about the, "Oil"..... while most cars use variances of lighter oils, living in a hot place causes me to run a heavier
oil. For reference I use a 50w racing oil in my 5.7L truck but from what you are saying it sounds like your oil might be thicker
than that? I do know when it's cold that I change the oil to a lighter oil but that's only 2 months of the year here & some years
you don't have to worry. So your oil is thick & do you have any trouble keeping the oil hot once you're in flight? Nice content.
Airplane engines are basically glorified tractor engines from the 1940's. The tolerances in them are nowhere near the tight tolerances you see in today's automobiles. Our cars have those tight tolerances and thin oil for the purpose of friction reduction and improved mileage.
The larger tolerances in our aircraft engines require a thicker oil layer to provide sufficient lubrication.
Good question about in-flight temperatures. It is a problem for sure, in the colder months. We normally have oil coolers on our engines, and it is very possible in cold weather to have oil that is too cold. Many airplanes will have covers that go over the oil cooler to partially or completely block it for fight in cold weather.
When I think about all the engines in production at any given time I'm amazed at how few of them are slated as usable
in the aviation sector? Before looking at planes I'd never heard of Rotax Engines although I have seen them reaching
over into pontoon boats but these engines are underwater & I question how long they can keep the water OUT? Thanks
for your time, I try to make sense of this stuff & you manage to make me ask more questions, ever been a professor?
You come off as caring in a way that made me ask that too. Thanks for making my Saturday night, "All That" ?!!
peace
@@diggy-d8w Thanks for the kind words. If you think about airplane (and boat, for that matter) engines, they have a very different application than most vehicles. Cars and motorcycles very rarely are putting out their maximum rated power, and when they are, it's for a very brief period of acceleration. Most of the time, they are just loafing along.
Airplanes on the other hand run for extended periods of time at 100% full power output.
@@CanardBoulevard Yes, I knew that of the aircraft engines but my mind is still trying to understand the differences as
they are distinctly different applications. Whatever those are, I like the "pusher" configuration of your plane. Well, I like
more than that but I'm not really qualified to say much of importance. I like it's harder to stall & that something about
the small front wings cause it to almost fly itself? Thanks for sharing all of this stuff & your Synth Stuff ! I'm there too!
peace, see ya tomorrow
Love your videos. How about a segment on the cell-phone-activation gizmo?
I knew someone was going to ask about that. :) I had thought about it, I made mine out of some parts that I had sitting around, but it costs me $25/month in cell fees to have it. That's $300 a year. For $300 you can buy a commercial unit that costs nothing in fees...and I will probably do this at some point.
My background is mostly as a pilot/mechanic on Turbin helicopters. As a result, I am used synthetic motor oils, and we could start as low as 20° below zero Fahrenheit with no problems. As a result when I got my Long EZ I switched it to Aeroshell 15W50 synthetic engine oil, and had no problems getting immediate oil pressure on start up at temps of 20 degrees F. What type of engine oil do you use?
I am also using Aeroshell 15W50. It's a great (not inexpensive!) oil.
But I can definitely tell a difference between starting the engine cold and preheated. If it is 50 degrees out and I crank the engine to start, it's going to crank more sluggishly, and take a bit more time before it lights off and starts, and oil pressure takes longer to come up. If I have preheated it first, it starts INSTANTLY and oil pressure is there right away.
@@CanardBoulevardWeird. I really do get excellent cranking down into the '40s for sure, and even lower than that. It could have something to do with batteries and starters, and of course I have a small engine, an 0235. The important thing is I immediately see oil pressure with 15W50. I've put a thousand hours on my airplane, and my screens never show any metal at all, so it seems to be working.
Great video, really interesting content throughout.
12:07 leaving the oil filler cap off - at some times of year (I think it's a few weeks in early Fall around here) there is a massive amount of dew/condensation on anything metal that's outside (or in a shed) at sunset & overnight. On those occasions I think I'd rather have the filler cap fitted.
Use of °F throughout does get tiresome, as I just don't know what sort of temperatures you're talking about. 45 years ago I might have had relatively little preference (for temps above freezing) but these days my °F interpretation has pretty much gone!
Maybe (as you put so much effort into editing anyway) you could just flash the °C as text on the screen when you mention a temperature. (Which is a lot in this video).
Do you have a reference for the claim that leaving the dipstick open reduces the amount of water in the engine during cool down?
Hi Marc,
I had heard this anecdotally from a couple of people and didn't put much faith in it, but then I heard the exact same thing in a pre-heating webinar given by Doug Evink, CEO of Tanis Systems, so I did some more research. The "50%" value came from Doug. I did not come across any published studies, but I did come across someone who did a test by putting a plastic bag over the dipstick tube after removing the dipstick, and allowing the engine to cool - and he had photos of a fair amount of condensed water that ended up on the inside of the bag after it had cooled.
This same engine oil temp/engine temp issue is also why short trips in your car are more detrimental to it's engine health than actual miles driven. EVERY engine cycle in your car/ airplane should get up to full operating temperature to boil off that condensate moisture in the oil.
At one point in my working career, I lived just about a mile from work. I walked to work - even in the dead of a sub-freezing/sub-zero Cleveland OH winter - rather than driving - because it just wasn't worth it. I'm not just talking about the time scraping the windows, but for the wear/tear/abuse of my car's engine. Unless you get that engine to full operating temp for at least 15 minutes, you are doing more harm than good!
100% correct. I'm also in the Cleveland area, and I loved having a plug-in hybrid car that I could drive to work in. I would go months in the winter without ever starting my engine for my short commute.
Great info!
Most interesting.
The combustion of each gallon of gasoline produces one gallon of water -- so water is not a minor byproduct of combustion.
Consider asking your local EAA chapter or look online. They have designs for lower cost dehumidifiers than the dry bot.
I could very easily build my own - I know very well how they work. Most use dessicant beds that need to be restored manually from time to time. The genius of the Drybot is that it uses a dessicant bed, but it regenerates itself when needed, without having to take it apart. It's probably a bit expensive for what it is, but it works.
Cranking with the throttle wide open causes the starter to work harder, not easier. It also loads the bearings more. Why? The engine compresses that air. So, more air more compression, more force needed.
The engine is going to compress the air regardless of whether the throttle is open or not. The amount of air pressure before the compression stroke will be MARGINALLY less with the throttle closed, but not enough to make much difference in terms of the compression stroke.
Having the throttle closed however means the engine also has resistance against the intake stroke, as it is pulling against vacuum created by the closed throttle plate.
This is common practice - in motorsports, when we want to crank an engine, the ignition and fuel is shut off and throttle wide open for least resistance.
You can try it yourself: pull mixture to idle/cutoff, turn off your mags, then crank your engine. While doing so, move the throttle from closed to wide open - you'll find the engine crank RPM increases with the throttle wide open.
Look at the Tg temperature of your epoxy system that was used to build your plane. My MSG is high at about 160-180° F without post cure and over 210°F with post curing. Yours is probably around 160°F on the top end. Most Cozy builders do not have the equipment to do a post cure of a fuselage. I would never use a forced air heater that is over 60°C. It could damage any of your structual areas at the firewall, or maybe you'd get a good post cure out of it. 😅
A good point, but the cowl and firewall are not getting anywhere even remotely close to Tg in my application. The cowl is slightly warm to the touch, but not much more. The engine is getting the vast majority of the heat. In fact, the firewall (it's covered in stainless) actually is still cool - all the heat is going to the bottom of the engine (the sump) and then up through the cylinder fins and out the back of the cowl.
I can say that the cowl and firewall experience FAR more heat from the engine running normally on a hot day than they do from my forced air preheat.
What is the magical box that lets you use a cell phone to turn on the heater??
The audio wasn't that horrendous, yeah I can hear the processing or compression but it wasn't so terrible. I'd like to hear how it does outdoors etc.
The more ambient noise there is, the worse the artifacts. I tested it at home and it seemed pretty capable, but as soon as there was the reverberation of the hangar, it turned all swirly like you hear in the video.
@@CanardBoulevard Okay thank you.
We use to use hair dryers, safe I know right. It worked great.
100w incandescent lightbulb and moving blankets.... You're welcome
I mentioned that in the video.
@CanardBoulevard smart man, those old cranky pilots had a few tricks up their sleeves to pass on didn't they!?
@@CanardBoulevardI think the electric air heaters or even the lightbulb are superior because they cause the least amounts of condensation (from unevenly heated surfaces) and a low consistent heat, also you can feel more comfortable leaving it plugged in indefinitely for the winter season and not spend extra money on timers and switches that could need Cellular data if your airport has no Wi-Fi or is kind of far to drive just to plug it in the night before. I think you did a great job explaining. Might I suggest heating from the top down so the hot air doesn't rise and condensate on you cam or crank before it gets evenly heated. I recently bought a twin hornet 22 which is basically a thermostat controlled internal forced air heater, seems to be working great so far keeping to the oil at about 80F with a couple of blankets.
Keep your babies indoors.
A heated hanger is by far the best option. Most of us that have hangars, do not have heated hangars, unfortunately.
One point … typically the oil pressure sender is close to the oil pump or the oil filter , the beginning the of the pressure , just and fyi