Great series! I trashed two sets of pistons with a Megasquirt due to not knowing the engine was knocking. Scared me away from aftermarket ECUs for a bit, but I've been eyeballing your 2JZ kit / harness
+Beau Miklethun Yours is not an isolated case, this video was requested by quite a few people. Hopefully it will save a few of them from what happened to you:)
At first I was thinking where's Tuning Fork but Matt did an awesome job of explaining everything there, Thanks Matt and damb i need to sell my power fc d-jetro and but one of your AWESOME Haltec's.Anyone interested in a apexi power fs D-jetro to suit non vvti !j? hit me up
Great clip! I have an early wrx running a Haltach PS1000 on E85 and noticed a CEL flash up on the dash when under heavy load at high rpm today. I suspected that this was a nock event. I recently purchased the car and don't know much about how the ECU is set up. Tuned by JEM, built by Ichiban. Looking forward to learning more.
Very very good video. At least someone can explain this engine component and it's value to an engine. Now can I have a free Haltech sent to me in Ireland... 😁😜. Seriously though its a great video.
Awesome video! NooB here, so the scenario describes how the knock control detects knock and pulls timing out, under what conditions would the ECU put more timing in?
See now back in the day we'd mess with the fuel and the static and mech advance to stop pre-ignition ..I dig the new stuff but I really liked the way it was...Calculating comp ratios and fuel and timing to suit...Those days are gone..
Does a lean condition create the same knock frequency? More to the point...If for example a fuel pump dies will the knock control save the motor? Sorry for the loaded question! :)
great video. is there any particular map point you would generally target for inducing knock? ie peak torque..off boost? does the knock frequency change with rpm? if the motor spends most of its hard life over 5krpm is there any reason to 'tune' the frequency at that rpm? lastly the car runs e85, given its tendency to not knock should the knock test be done with a lesser fuel?
great vedio thanks . just a quick question .. I have a subaru 1999 sti V5, my diagnosis tool shows the knock.sensor warning .. I checked it It had a mile crack .. do I have to replace it ?? or can I use it for a while ?? thanks in advance for your answer
how does it communicate with flex fuel? If it adjust map permanently -0.5' ignition and you add higher octane will it remove adjustment and start to listen for knock again?
+Patrik Sabo The long-term knock tables can be set to 4D, to learn against ethanol content. A number of different percentages can be configured, allowing for a different table for each amount of ethanol.
Great video! A question though: Once the base & long term mapping is adjusted by the ecu, is it constantly applying updates to get the best operation solely based on the knock sensor? IE: If temperature drops, does it sense that and add timing using the knock sensor to keep from going too far, or is it always adjusting based on knock sensor feedback?
really enjoyed this, seemed reasonably simple to setup, im based in the UK and ive been looking for a decent ecu with knock control as my current aftermarket ecu that ive tuned myself doesnt have any facility to listen to knock. Do you have distributers in europe or would i order direct from OZ?
+turbotoaster1984 You can do either. You can get to our online store via our website: www.haltech.com or contact one of our UK resellers: www.haltech.com/dealer/dealers-europe/#United%20Kingdom
Could you add a knock sensor to an engine that didn't originally have one, what would the considerations be for the choice of sensor and it's placement / setup?
+Matt Wright I'm looking at an air-cooled application to, with its placement does it need to be near the cylinders or does it not matter as the vibration is transferred anyway? I've had a quick look and found some bosch sensors, are these what you recommend?
Really enjoy the technically speaking series, wonder how a 12v cummins could benefit from a haltech and ebc solenoid, i suppose the knock control couldnt be used in an engine that doesnt have variable timing
Hi Lance, visit this page: www.haltech.com/contact-us/ and fill out the form. One of our tech support guys will be happy to solve all of your questions for you. :)
Dear Sir. I was about to purchase a different make of ECU but I find myself being swayed by you presentation. I am looking for a system capable of 16000revs. 4stk. 2cylinder. Manly ignition for the moment. Concerning knock control, how accurate/reliable is it? Can i set my ignition high, and then gently let the learning part bring the settings back into a usable map. Race Go-kart. Dynoing is a problem.
Hi there, a number of ECUs will fit your application. The best thing to do is to contact our tech support on support@haltech.com or give our office a call and one of our tech guys will be able to tell you which ECU is best for your application.
I'm getting knock counts like crazy when I blip the throttle and slowly release the clutch. Could it be that it's just sending that frequency out vs an actual knock? While spirited driving I dont get any knock counts. This is even with the stock tune.
Unfortunately no knock control on the VMS as it's a single connector ECU. Here is a list of all the features and specs of the unit: www.haltech.com/product-overview-elite-vms-and-vms-t/
so for the settings on the knock window you have it end at 35 degrees ATDC? because you have it start at 5*BTDC and duration is 40* right? and another question.the test matt performed on the dyno to induce knock, was it audible behind the camera?
+Ismael Candia Yes with those settings for the knock window (starting at 5 degrees BTDC and duration of 40 degrees it will stop looking for knock at 35 degrees ATDC). In regards to the knock being audible, yes it was, in fact if you listen carefully to the video you can hear it.
Ok thank you, now I can be confident how I setup and find knock center frequency for a specific engine.and Matt thank you for the efi 101 seminar in 2012 I am now a tuner thanks to you and efi university.
Hi, in video is Subaru WRX 2.5L right? It has 99.5mm bore => according usual knock frequency calculator it may be around 5.8khz. Why in video it detected 11khz? Its was just a quick(unprecise) illustrative example or it can realy be so much different in real compare to theoretical calc?
+PhoB J It was set just to illustrate the point made in the video. This video is not intended as a Subaru tuning guide, but a general explanation of what a "knock" is and how to control it.
Most v shape engines will have 2 knock sensors, one towards the front of the engine, and one towards the rear. It helps to hear knock on the nearby cylinders instead of hoping a knock signal is detected from multiple cylinders away
The knock frequency should be a variable range of min and max. We measure cylinder pressure in the crankangle domain with Kistler 6125s pressure transducers in my engine lab, and heavy knock is not necessarily a specific frequency. A single 300 bar pressure spike will not register a knock frequency, but high frequency and low amplitude ringing during 10-90 mass fraction burn duration can be measured as "knock" but not actually be harmful. Also, if too much ignition timing is retarded, pre turbine temps may be dangerously high. Can the haltec system also active additional anti knock countermeasures, like immediate water injection? Also, has this haltec system been vetted against cylinder pressure data?
+BurnDuration The Haltech can be configured to perform any output/function you like, based on any event. For example, on a knock event, you could have water injection engage for a period of time.
+BurnDuration Of course this is a limitation of piezoelectric sensors, which are pretty much an old and cost effective technology used by OEM's just as a safety countermeasure. Pressure transducers (integrated in spark plugs) with ion sensing tech are probably the future but from what i looked a couple of years ago they are too expensive to be integrated on a consumer vehicle
+BurnDuration Exhaust temps are not a problem with this kind of control strategy. Its only slight retardation and only for a fraction of a second. Whats "10-90 mass fraction burn"??
The program lists the frequency as a centre freqency. Not as THE knock frequency. Even the program shows it goes red at just about any freqency so its pretty easy for the computer to tell even if you get the settings a little wrong.
+nimron wilson Currently GTiR is only supported by a Sport 1000 + Patch Harness however we are planning to have Elite 1500 + Patch Harness kits for the N14 GTiR soon.
Any chance of a CA18DET patch harness? I would modify the stock one, but asking just for future reference:p Does anyone knows how the elite 1500 compares to Link's ecu's? I used both software, and really liked the Haltech one in terms of usability :)
haltechecu Thank you very much. I left the question open to the public to answer too:p Since i've seen this video i started looking again into spark pressure transducers (also ones with ion-sensing). I guess if your ecu software allows for basic logic programming it is possible to integrate such a system using one or more of the analog inputs. If not i will contact Mighty Car Mods and send them to Turbo Yoda so you are forced to make a software update for it ahahaha
haltechecu Btw just checked your site and i couldn't find a ca18det patch harness, i guess you need to update it, because you probably have ones for more engines but it only shows a very limited range
Haltech Instead of applying long term knock control, why isn't the ignition timing retarded at that base map? It's good that the ECU does this to maintain maximum performance while preventing knock, but since knock control is being set by the tuner, why isn't the tuner just modifying the ignition timing table?
It is there for the same reason the factory ECUs all have this functionality. To cover for the variables that the tuner cannot forsee. Like not having the exact same fuel quality, or different climate conditions from those that the engine was tuned in. This is especially so because the tuner only has the car for maybe a day or so he cannot cover for every possible condition the engine will see.
@@haltech thank you. That makes more sense. When I first watched this, I thought maybe the tuner would use this to figure out the proper ignition timing by overshooting the ignition timing and use monitor the long term changes made by knock control
![Elite Knock Control | Closed Loop Knock/Ping/Detonation Control [GOLD MEMBER WEBINAR]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vkzaT_JG1Qk/mqdefault.jpg)
![Elite Knock Control | Closed Loop Knock/Ping/Detonation Control [GOLD MEMBER WEBINAR]](/img/tr.png)
Seeing this vedio made me understand why people are so interested in Haltech ecu
Great video! I love the longer more educational format.
This guy is a great teacher.
This is amazing. Thanks for uploading!
This guy's really great at explaining.
why not just put a doorbell in the engine bay?? knocking problem pretty much fixed.
atheosxgaming thats what your car comes with stock.
Detonation @atheosxgaming go back to your video games..
I’ve got one it’s a red light haha
Great video, nice to see the ECU used in context on a dyno to get the knock frequency! These ECU's/software are awesome.
REALLY enjoyed this video. You guys have done a really good job on your ECU and associated software. Very impressive.
Perfect execution of technical capability of the product, spot on 👍🏻
I'm seriously considering a Haltech Elite 2000 for my 2JZ Mk3 Supra! The calibration features this ECU delivers is AMAZING!
One of your best videos, thanks Matt, thanks Haltech!
Great series! I trashed two sets of pistons with a Megasquirt due to not knowing the engine was knocking. Scared me away from aftermarket ECUs for a bit, but I've been eyeballing your 2JZ kit / harness
+Beau Miklethun Yours is not an isolated case, this video was requested by quite a few people. Hopefully it will save a few of them from what happened to you:)
Thanks, this really put me on the right track for the time being.
Excellent Matt. A very clear explanation.
Very informative. great to learn how haltech does things.
That was great video on how to setup knock sensors, and control with the elite. Now I'm off to do some more tuning. Thanks.
At first I was thinking where's Tuning Fork but Matt did an awesome job of explaining everything there, Thanks Matt and damb i need to sell my power fc d-jetro and but one of your AWESOME Haltec's.Anyone interested in a apexi power fs D-jetro to suit non vvti !j? hit me up
Great clip! I have an early wrx running a Haltach PS1000 on E85 and noticed a CEL flash up on the dash when under heavy load at high rpm today. I suspected that this was a nock event. I recently purchased the car and don't know much about how the ECU is set up. Tuned by JEM, built by Ichiban. Looking forward to learning more.
That subaru in the back is a perfect example of why you need to prevent knock those EJ25 engines like to blow them self to bits.
Great video guys, thank you!
Nice, thanks for the runthrough. This type of safety features makes me wish i had a haltech in my Evo...
so much learning!! Thanks Haltech :)
Very very good video. At least someone can explain this engine component and it's value to an engine.
Now can I have a free Haltech sent to me in Ireland... 😁😜.
Seriously though its a great video.
Great Video ,, but how do yo compensate for various octanes of gasoline plus various blends of E-85 ??? @Haltech ???
Awesome video! Great ECU! Thank you for the information!
Loved it!! Thank you for the information!!!
Awesome video! NooB here, so the scenario describes how the knock control detects knock and pulls timing out, under what conditions would the ECU put more timing in?
Great vid. More of these please.
super simple explanation. thanks!
Nice! More in depth videos are way better imo. Looking forward to see more :)
See now back in the day we'd mess with the fuel and the static and mech advance to stop pre-ignition ..I dig the new stuff but I really liked the way it was...Calculating comp ratios and fuel and timing to suit...Those days are gone..
very well explained, thank you
Excellent Video! I noticed an extra empty front seat, why not invite one of the Haltech Girls to sit in?
I am driving a nissan 300zx twin turbo (elite inside). can I use my factory knock sensor ? if not, can you tell me which one use !
I really enjoyed that, great info thanks
Great video, perfectly explained! :)
Very informative .
Thank you !
Nice explanation 👍🏽
Excellent
Does a lean condition create the same knock frequency?
More to the point...If for example a fuel pump dies will the knock control save the motor?
Sorry for the loaded question! :)
great video.
is there any particular map point you would generally target for inducing knock?
ie peak torque..off boost?
does the knock frequency change with rpm? if the motor spends most of its hard life over 5krpm is there any reason to 'tune' the frequency at that rpm?
lastly the car runs e85, given its tendency to not knock should the knock test be done with a lesser fuel?
Great explanation :)
Love the video. Would the haltech be able to detect knock if it was used on a cast iron filled engine block?
+Rmr2turbo Thanks and to answer your question - yes knock will still be detected on a cast iron filled engine block.
Thank you!
great vedio thanks . just a quick question .. I have a subaru 1999 sti V5, my diagnosis tool shows the knock.sensor warning .. I checked it It had a mile crack .. do I have to replace it ?? or can I use it for a while ??
thanks in advance for your answer
Great info!
Love this
how does it communicate with flex fuel? If it adjust map permanently -0.5' ignition and you add higher octane will it remove adjustment and start to listen for knock again?
+Patrik Sabo The long-term knock tables can be set to 4D, to learn against ethanol content. A number of different percentages can be configured, allowing for a different table for each amount of ethanol.
great video! I was in the last pri seminar in Orlando and I know you guys just had another seminar here but I missed it where can I get seminar info?
www.haltech.com/support/training-seminar/
Great video! A question though: Once the base & long term mapping is adjusted by the ecu, is it constantly applying updates to get the best operation solely based on the knock sensor? IE: If temperature drops, does it sense that and add timing using the knock sensor to keep from going too far, or is it always adjusting based on knock sensor feedback?
really enjoyed this, seemed reasonably simple to setup, im based in the UK and ive been looking for a decent ecu with knock control as my current aftermarket ecu that ive tuned myself doesnt have any facility to listen to knock. Do you have distributers in europe or would i order direct from OZ?
+turbotoaster1984 You can do either. You can get to our online store via our website: www.haltech.com or contact one of our UK resellers:
www.haltech.com/dealer/dealers-europe/#United%20Kingdom
So different engines have different knock frequencies?
Listening for knock near TDC, is that broken down per cylinder or literally at the TDC of the first cylinder?
Tdc of any cylinder
I like the rims on that Subie.
Could you add a knock sensor to an engine that didn't originally have one, what would the considerations be for the choice of sensor and it's placement / setup?
+Matt Wright I'm looking at an air-cooled application to, with its placement does it need to be near the cylinders or does it not matter as the vibration is transferred anyway? I've had a quick look and found some bosch sensors, are these what you recommend?
very helpful!!
I’m going to mount my elite Ecu’s on the windshield just like it’s shown in this video
cool, thanks mate
very interesting!
Really enjoy the technically speaking series, wonder how a 12v cummins could benefit from a haltech and ebc solenoid, i suppose the knock control couldnt be used in an engine that doesnt have variable timing
+Joshua Marsh While knock control works on engines without variable timing, at this stage we do not support diesel engines.
im running 100% e85 and i dont have a knock sensor on my aftermarket ecu, question about e85 on what variables would it knock
Is it possible to shock rod bearings Into premature failure and would that be from timing ?
So the ecu need a knock sensor wired directly into it? Does the factory sensor with a haltech jumper harness not work?
Hi Lance, visit this page: www.haltech.com/contact-us/ and fill out the form. One of our tech support guys will be happy to solve all of your questions for you. :)
Does the engine knock differently, frequency or otherwise, in relation to different load or RPM?
No, frequency will stay in the same range throughout operation conditions - only amplitude will change.
good
Dear Sir.
I was about to purchase a different make of ECU but I find myself being swayed by you presentation.
I am looking for a system capable of 16000revs. 4stk. 2cylinder. Manly ignition for the moment. Concerning knock control, how accurate/reliable is it? Can i set my ignition high, and then gently let the learning part bring the settings back into a usable map.
Race Go-kart.
Dynoing is a problem.
Hi there, a number of ECUs will fit your application. The best thing to do is to contact our tech support on support@haltech.com or give our office a call and one of our tech guys will be able to tell you which ECU is best for your application.
Can the ECU read the OEM knock sensors?
Just out of curiosity: What is the knock frequency on a rotary engine like the 13B?
I'm getting knock counts like crazy when I blip the throttle and slowly release the clutch. Could it be that it's just sending that frequency out vs an actual knock? While spirited driving I dont get any knock counts. This is even with the stock tune.
Does the ignition only series of your ecu do this? This is make or break if I buy it.
Unfortunately no knock control on the VMS as it's a single connector ECU.
Here is a list of all the features and specs of the unit:
www.haltech.com/product-overview-elite-vms-and-vms-t/
do you think 2jzgte oem knock sensor is good enough for tuning for 500WHP+?
so for the settings on the knock window you have it end at 35 degrees ATDC? because you have it start at 5*BTDC and duration is 40* right? and another question.the test matt performed on the dyno to induce knock, was it audible behind the camera?
+Ismael Candia Yes with those settings for the knock window (starting at 5 degrees BTDC and duration of 40 degrees it will stop looking for knock at 35 degrees ATDC). In regards to the knock being audible, yes it was, in fact if you listen carefully to the video you can hear it.
Ok thank you, now I can be confident how I setup and find knock center frequency for a specific engine.and Matt thank you for the efi 101 seminar in 2012 I am now a tuner thanks to you and efi university.
How much timing pulled is bad?
Does the timing creep back in over time in order to detect whether the knock was transient, eg due to a tank or 3 of lower octane fuel?
The ECU does not currently re-introduce timing at this point, however it is something we are planning to add in a future update.
Hi, in video is Subaru WRX 2.5L right? It has 99.5mm bore => according usual knock frequency calculator it may be around 5.8khz. Why in video it detected 11khz? Its was just a quick(unprecise) illustrative example or it can realy be so much different in real compare to theoretical calc?
+PhoB J It was set just to illustrate the point made in the video. This video is not intended as a Subaru tuning guide, but a general explanation of what a "knock" is and how to control it.
Why do you need two sensors?
Most v shape engines will have 2 knock sensors, one towards the front of the engine, and one towards the rear. It helps to hear knock on the nearby cylinders instead of hoping a knock signal is detected from multiple cylinders away
The knock frequency should be a variable range of min and max. We measure cylinder pressure in the crankangle domain with Kistler 6125s pressure transducers in my engine lab, and heavy knock is not necessarily a specific frequency. A single 300 bar pressure spike will not register a knock frequency, but high frequency and low amplitude ringing during 10-90 mass fraction burn duration can be measured as "knock" but not actually be harmful. Also, if too much ignition timing is retarded, pre turbine temps may be dangerously high. Can the haltec system also active additional anti knock countermeasures, like immediate water injection? Also, has this haltec system been vetted against cylinder pressure data?
+BurnDuration The Haltech can be configured to perform any output/function you like, based on any event. For example, on a knock event, you could have water injection engage for a period of time.
+BurnDuration Of course this is a limitation of piezoelectric sensors, which are pretty much an old and cost effective technology used by OEM's just as a safety countermeasure. Pressure transducers (integrated in spark plugs) with ion sensing tech are probably the future but from what i looked a couple of years ago they are too expensive to be integrated on a consumer vehicle
+BurnDuration Exhaust temps are not a problem with this kind of control strategy. Its only slight retardation and only for a fraction of a second.
Whats "10-90 mass fraction burn"??
The program lists the frequency as a centre freqency. Not as THE knock frequency. Even the program shows it goes red at just about any freqency so its pretty easy for the computer to tell even if you get the settings a little wrong.
well it have an elite edu for the pulsar grit???
+nimron wilson Currently GTiR is only supported by a Sport 1000 + Patch Harness however we are planning to have Elite 1500 + Patch Harness kits for the N14 GTiR soon.
Sweet will be awaiting it's arrival thank you
I cant wait to put a elite ecu in my car.
Any chance of a CA18DET patch harness? I would modify the stock one, but asking just for future reference:p Does anyone knows how the elite 1500 compares to Link's ecu's? I used both software, and really liked the Haltech one in terms of usability :)
+St0RM33 Can't really give you a direct comparison to other brands because we are, well, a bit biased LOL.
But we do have a patch harness for a CA18:)
haltechecu Thank you very much. I left the question open to the public to answer too:p Since i've seen this video i started looking again into spark pressure transducers (also ones with ion-sensing). I guess if your ecu software allows for basic logic programming it is possible to integrate such a system using one or more of the analog inputs. If not i will contact Mighty Car Mods and send them to Turbo Yoda so you are forced to make a software update for it ahahaha
haltechecu Btw just checked your site and i couldn't find a ca18det patch harness, i guess you need to update it, because you probably have ones for more engines but it only shows a very limited range
+St0RM33 Second one from the top:
www.haltech.com/sport-1000-patch-harnesses/
haltechecu Ohh! So they fit the elite too, right?
after hearing the word "knock" so many times, the word sounds weird now
Haltech Instead of applying long term knock control, why isn't the ignition timing retarded at that base map? It's good that the ECU does this to maintain maximum performance while preventing knock, but since knock control is being set by the tuner, why isn't the tuner just modifying the ignition timing table?
It is there for the same reason the factory ECUs all have this functionality. To cover for the variables that the tuner cannot forsee. Like not having the exact same fuel quality, or different climate conditions from those that the engine was tuned in. This is especially so because the tuner only has the car for maybe a day or so he cannot cover for every possible condition the engine will see.
@@haltech thank you. That makes more sense. When I first watched this, I thought maybe the tuner would use this to figure out the proper ignition timing by overshooting the ignition timing and use monitor the long term changes made by knock control
I counted 74 uses of the word knock in this video...
haltech belt buckle. knock knock, whos there? knock
It’s simple Don’t be a limited octane hero....
correction **ecu
'KNOCK' WTF is that? Maby start there for the 'noob engineers' like me.. TY !!
www.haltech.com/knock-control/
Perfect :) thanks for the link.
Knock count is not important what is important is knock control
Name a better car for an example then a Subaru I'll wait 😂😂
they used Otis McDonald
Never trust a man in shinny shoes