Fun fact: “the blue death” is an old euphemism for cholera. Generally it’s nicer to say “she was taken by the blue death” over “she just kept pooping until her blood turned to sludge in her veins.”
Yep, the "blue" part refers to how severe dehydration (in this case, caused by vomiting and diarrhea) can cause a person's skin to turn blueish, known as cyanosis.
Vivienne and Dorian in the same party produces some of the funniest banter in the game - especially if you bring Solas along and they go total "Mean Girls" on him.
About the "No one will ever control me again." part. Vivienne is referring to the demon that almost possessed her in her Harrowing, the demon controlled her for a brief moment so the Templars were about to kill her and she smiled at them to show that she was still herself. That's why she is so rude to Cole, she fears demons and spirits.
I loved Vivienne even if I disagreed with her opinion on the Circle. She really does grow to care about the campaigns if you take the time to know her.
Vivienne is someone I love as a charater but probably couldn't stand in real life. I don't feel comfortable with her beliefs and it's very concerning to me.
I love that all of her emotions described by Cole are “cold”, but it’s apparent in the way he paints her memories that it’s always a means of protecting herself because of how much she does care. Edit: I also love that Divine Viv has a divine-themed spa outfit in Tresspasser 😂
I fell in love with this character the moment I met her. My Inquisitor asked her what was in the Inquisition for her Vivienne: "The chance to meet my enemy. To decide my fate. I won't wait quietly for destruction"
I think it's crazy how many people hate Vivienne vs love Dorian. They're really so similar in many ways, he's just more sarcastic in his demeanor and she's more serious. I don't mean they're similar in their political stances or anything but, rather, like, as humans to be around lol
I absolutely LOVE Vivienne. I feel that the people who don't like her recruited her and only spoke to her after the main story missions and decided they didn't like her without taking her anywhere and getting to know her. It's revealed through Cole's and Vivienne's companion dialogue that Vivienne was originally a scared little girl that feared for her own safety and that when she was discovered to be a mage and taken to the circle, that she decided to never feel scared or unsafe ever again, and it has influenced the main tenants of her character. She sees the circles as a haven that has saved mages away from the common people of thedas that are terrified and persecute mages. She views gaining political power as a means for securing safety for herself AND other mages. People say she's anti-mages when she literally loves being a mage and when made Divine or the Grand Enchanter she establishes the Circles as prestigious academies like those in Tevinter, gives the mages the most freedoms they have EVER had, and makes the mages/circles into a political power house. People say she's pro-templar when she literally doesn't care what happens to the templars and strips away their authoritative power by leashing them more closer to her. Cullen even says her views on Templars as "surprisingly traditional" showing that she distrusts Templars like most mages do. People say she doesn't care about the little people, when she's one of the few people that approve of saving everyone in Haven and is horrified when everyone shows up the Mornay's execution in Val Royeaux (while Sera just wants to find food). She is also disgusted when you discover that Oculara are made of the skulls of tranquil and states that she wished for them to be safe with the Rebels. Vivienne intentionally puts on a cold and distant demeanor because that is what she has needed to do to survive as a mage in the Orlesian court. She has done that so well, that most of the player base fall for it all the time.
Tbf one Vivienne's approval goes really low she won't talk to you much anymore outside of specific cutscene interactions and for a mage freedom player you can get a lot of disapproval from her pretty early. So I could see having a bad experience with her first time. Plus she can't solo dragons anymore since the KE nerf so less reason for people to take her.
@@coltonalbright7544 And in Coles banter with her he says she cares about him but she dont want to show because she thinks caring makes her weak. So she just treat him like that because she is afraid of demons because she was almost posessed by one. And to be honest, the most people would be terrified of Cole, he can just make people forget who he is and can kill and just make people forget like he did to mages before
@nicolem3951 Of course it's natural to be afraid of him at first, but she NEVER opens up to him or even calls him by name. He's only my pet demon or it. Her prejudices are pretty significant and honestly pretty hypocritical given how she feels about magic.
One of my favorite companions. I love how smug she is. Iron Bull’s description sums her up perfectly: Iron Bull (To solas IIRC): “Vivienne has this swagger, like she thinks she’s the most dangerous thing in the room.” Vivienne: I am the most dangerous thing in the room.” I can see why she gets so much hate because of this, but this is exactly why I love her.
Vivienne is one of my favorite characters in inquisition. While I don’t tend to have them together in the party, I love the interactions you get to see with Vivienne and Cole. Vivienne is able to put on a mask that would fool anyone, but cole is a spirit and that mask might as well not exist. It shows a side to her that I never saw when I was first playing and thought she was just the stone cold opportunist. I think she has genuine reasons for supporting the circle much like Wynne and half the mages which is why it was a tie in Asunder. As a mage, she has had to deal with the horrors that other mages can cast down first hand.
As we find out in Trespasser it was Elf mages who terrorized the world and nearly ended it. It was another elf mage who lobotomized the whole world. It was human mages who brought the Taint back from the fade and started the Blights. Every worldwide threat has been because of magic and the mages.
@@LoopyLemon775 She is a very misunderstood character and people that hate her create their own narratives against her despite what is shown in game that contradicts their views on her. For example, they say "she is doing everything for her own power" Vivienne: recommends Cassandra as Divine and only wants the circle restored to protect Mages from abuse from Templars so they can actually be safe and practice magic. Or "She wants mages to remain imprisoned and abused in the Circle." Vivenne: Never disagreed with Fiona's vote for independence for mages, only expresses it was poorly timed. She herself even admits to experiencing abuse from Templars. I have to believe these are just angsty teens following the crowd and hating on Viv without actually paying attention.
@@dirtydan9153 She does, overtly, disagree with Fiona’s vote for independence. Why else would she introduce herself as ‘leader of the last loyal mages.’ You are blatantly wrong and pretend to take the moral high-ground against null arguments like, “she just wants power.” Frankly, she is the only one of the three candidates who declares a desire for the position and makes minimal changes to an oppressive system. Good luck communicating like that in real life; all emotion, no facts.
@@ThatFont Ok? If that line is the best you can do to show proof of her "overtly disagreeing" then you're grasping at straws. Cause again, when asked about the vote she said it was "poorly timed" I mean did you not see what situation the rebels ended up in? It wasn't just poorly timed, but poorly handled too. Fiona and the rebels were no better than Vivienne, but you seem hell bent on looking for any reason to hate on Viv, even though Fiona and the rebels put more lives at risk with their actions and gave people more reasons to fear mages, unlike Viv and those who chose not to rebel. Lol i could care less about having the "moral high ground" or pretending to for that matter. I'm simply referencing what was shown in game, while you are the one who is all emotion and no facts. You saying Viv makes minimal changes proves that. For one, you can make that same argument with Cassandra and most people have. 2, The game legit showed when Viv is divine that mages now have more political power and the Templars are kept in check or disband due to Viv being a mage and not wanting to serve a mage. So to say Viv is the only one who makes minimal changes shows how biased you are against Viv and proves what i said that Viv haters keep creating false narratives to make her look worse than she really is, despite the game showing otherwise.
Vivienne is by far underrated and done so dirty (as far as community opinion). I don't agree with her views, but fuck I love her as a character. And I really appreciate how you handled covering her here, acknowledging underneath that calculating and cold armor is that passion and care. Lots I learned too so thank you!
I love Vivienne, she takes some getting used to but I never thought she didn't care. She is very complex and amazing, and so so strong and sure of herself.
When I saw this video, I clicked immediately. I adore Vivienne! During my first playthrough, I hated her. She was stuck up to high hell, and I couldn’t vibe with her at all. It wasn’t until I did my mage run, and when I got to know her that felt so stupid. Those moments when she opens up makes her unbelievably special and her journey to get to the inquisition just so powerful. Even in the end, I made her Victoria, she was the best choice after all. Lilianna, even harden, is too light on the mages, and Cassandra will just be a continuation of the last Divine. I believe some one like Vivienne, with both her cunning and insight into how the circles and mages actually operate was the best choice. I wouldn’t say im a simp for her, but gawd I love that woman.
I hadn't seen her that way. In my playthrough, I was so preoccupied with her love for the circle - but I love Anders - that I couldn't see the good that she might do in keeping mages in check while also making sure another Meredith doesn't happen.
Nah mate, a church should be led by someone who actually gives a shit about said religion. Seriously, you don’t think three different rebellions all ending in blood baths is a bit of a red flag? The real choice for Divine is enlightened Lilianna. Who actually uses diplomacy and politics to resolve conflicts more than Vivienne does. Think on that.
@@H240909 Again, Lilianna, even harden, is too light on the mages. To compare, she’s basically a hippy - only able to see something like “Oh, these poor mages! They should be let free!” Though they hold immense power, and if not controlled can easily harm, kill…etc. Not everyone’s not a Morrigan, and that’s most likely who she’s basing her ideas from. Imagine how irresponsible it is to point at just one mage and say “Hey! Hey! This one is harmless!” And then base an opinion on the whole group. Thought out the games, you see magic uncontrolled can cause mass amounts of suffering. Have you forgotten the quest line “In Hushed Whispers”? You can’t let power like that run all freely, thus the circles. However, the circles need to be reformed and there’s only one person fit for the job. The only one who’s seen the nit and grittiness of it. Vivienne. People trusted her enough to follow her under the mages’ rebellion, and through her smarts and cunning, was able to make a position that was literally just a court jester into something with actual power and backing. I’m not sure if you’re switching around Josephine for Lilianna when you say “diplomacy and politics” because Lilianna has never displayed any of that. While I will admit both Lilianna and Vivienne have both participated in the Great Game, Lilianna seemingly only stuck to underground while Vivienne, again, basically gained the ear of the Empress. Secondly, where ever was it said that Vivienne isn’t Andrastian? She’s just as much apart of the religion just as much as Lilianna. Are you saying that because Vivienne just didn’t throw herself into the chantry as Lilianna did? Maybe you should think on things, fam.
@@M3ntalT0mBoi "You're too soft on the mages" is exactly the kind of thinking that started the mage rebellions in the first place. And Lilianna DOES reform the Circles, she just doesn't force people to stay in them because doing so is a stupid idea that's begging for revolt. Instead she gives them an option to stay in the Circle of their own free will, or join the College of Enchanters. You make it sound like she just lets them run wild, which she doesn't. Also, have YOU forgotten who saved everyone during the "In Hushed Whispers" questline? Dorian, a MAGE! Also, the fact of the matter is that enlightened Divine Lilianna is a MUCH better diplomat than Divine Vivienne. We see it in the epilogue for Inquisition. What does Vivienne, the supposed master deal maker do when confronted with opposition? She has EVERYONE who disagrees with her KILLED! What does an enlightened Lilianna do? She meets with them face to face and convinces them not to oppose her in the first place AND THEY LISTEN! So who do you think is the better politician? The dictator or the inspirational leader? Finally, Vivienne doesn't give a shit about the Chantry. She believes in Andraste, but that doesn't qualify her to lead the entire religion. She sees it as a political position and nothing more. Just look at our own world and all the Popes that treated there own positions as political tools. They were tyrants and monsters, every single one of them. Vivienne is only qualified to lead the Circle, not the Chantry.
You can see the workings of her political uprising (at least late in her 'ascension') in The Masked Empire. When Celene meets with the Montissimards, the wife tells Celene that they've eaten dinner with the Mages. While it may be because of their daughter, Celene does make a note to speak with "Madame de Fer" about their familiarity with the mages. Which i think it pretty damn cool
"We need an institution to protect and nurture magic. Maker knows, magic will find neither on its own." This is such an important quote from Vivienne, and tells you about her motivations. People are so eager to assume she's just selfish and power-hungry. and also to dismiss her perspective and her experiences, because it doesn't fit with what they _want_ the truth about what it is to be a mage in Thedas. Well, that and people get snitty when they're told they can't romance someone :p
I made so many people legit angry when I said I didn't fully support mage freedom. Like yes abuses should stop, and there should be options for trusted and well trained mages to work and live outside of the circle. But at the end of the day, mages are dangerous and that shouldn't be ignored. Like bro, you could become a vessel for a demon at any moment
@@Chris_Meade this is why I don’t think I can make Leliana Divine at all. I mean, letting non-humans into the Chantry priesthood and romantic relationships being accepted sounds pretty cool but disbanding the Circle of Magi is what turns me off. The Circles may not be perfect but they’re necessary in helping prevent mages accidentally setting fire to houses or killing people with lightning strikes and Leliana wants to get rid of them entirely? That just sounds stupid to me.
It makes total sense for Vivienne to not have an approval changes to who ends up on top in WEWH, but I do wish we could have gotten approval from her for how high well WE did. Maybe a "Greatly Approves" if we end it with the option to publicly confront Florienne
Vivienne is one of my favorite characters actually because she's so deceptively complex. i pretty much disagree with....everything she believes in but i like that she isnt just a one-note "antagonist" or "rival" (if you can call it that when she hates you). her beliefs (as much as i hate them) have logic and i've always found her political and social manuvering to be so ingrained in her character that it's pretty much instinctual at this point. maybe its a result of a hard younger life (that's hinted at, as you mention in the video), survival, ambition, selfishness or a mixture of everything. we can only infer through clues. she DOES care about a select few people, but her actions strike me as "the world is hard and unfair, im doing what's necessary to come out on top" and if that helps others, great. if not, then she has to focus on herself. i think that's what grates some players, including myself, who try to priortize the group over the self. i.e. working for fellow mages even when its inconvenient/unpopular for the existing political structures within the context of the dragon age universe. but the fact she's so hated shows how well written she is? idk
I remember at the time the game came out there was so much hate for her in the fandom. I think that's not completely unfair as she has some very bad politics but a lot of fans would ignore the complexity of her character and refuse to humanise her. It was like they wanted her to be a purely power hungry person where everything is just to advantage her and her ambition. That's definitely a big part of her personality but it isn't the whole truth. From her interactions with Cole we learn that she is legitimately afraid of demons and possession. She also witnessed mages being murdered by mages in the tower and this has caused her to hate the rebellion. So she does have good reasons for her views as well as bad ones. She totally manipulates things to give her more power and control but that isn't the sole motivation for her actions. I hope more is done with this character.
My male human rift mage Inquisitor got along great with Vivienne. They were of like minds, and Vivienne was correct about nearly every issue covered in the game. One, maybe two minor things you forgot; She has more relevance than most if you approach the templars at Theirinfall. Abernache recognizes her, and she changes up the dialogue a little if she is brought. She will also approve of a Herald who can answer Abernache with the nobility knowledge perk. Also, she has some history with Fiona. So if you take her to the Gull and the Lantern to meet her she has a witty remark or two. Also, Vivienne doesn't suggest she be made Divine. Not outright, and not even subtly. She recommends Cassandra and makes a strong case as to why. If you agree with her, then that's that. She's happy about Cassandra becoming Divine.
My favourite Vivienne stories are the ones where people expect to get one divine but end up with her completely unexpected. Like if you’re not careful she politically upstages you and I love that from a side character Her dialogue concerning the tranquil reveals quite a bit of depth too
Vivienne is probably one of my most favorite characters in the whole franchise. I just adore her. She sooooooo “icy” I love it. Her banter with Dorian (my favorite character) is chefs kiss
One my favorite characters in the whole series. You can often find my "essays" all over this platform,where I analyze the character ahahah This comment will be no different. The Chantry has dangerous politics and Vivienne understood that pretty well. Like the Game, the Chantry often judges people, whether they are reliable or not and Vivienne's personality is shaped by this cruel and selfish environment. Showing interest or feelings is dangerous because people can use those against you (like Anders lamented in his romance scene). She is honest about her views and I somehow agree with her, being pretty neutral about the whole pro-mage and pro-Templar argument. Magic IS dangerous: Connor and Amelia are two tragic examples. Wynne herself set a boy on fire, before she was brought to the Circle. However, that doesn't mean she isn't critical of the Templars: she APPROVES if you say that Templars made their beds and if you believe that they are not the solution. Her ideal of the Templar is someone like Ser Barris, who protects mages and who is still careful about magic, which is a force of nature. She used her influence to show mages can be reliable, even in politics, in a world where 'magic should not rule' is a principle. She also cares. She cares about the Tranquils discarded by the rebel mages and she approves when you say you want to give Maddox a proper burial. If you are an elf, dwarf or qunari inquisitor she says there's nothing wrong about being commoner and that she will introduce you to her tailor regardless. She knows that the Inquisitor is a political figure, built on the reputation of the masses, and she wants them to become someone who will pose as an inspiration. Her friendship is absolutely amazing and rewarding (just like Solas' friendship).
What I love about Vivienne is that she cares most for those least able to protect themselves, and her dialogue keeps on underlining that, yet a lot of people say she's heartless.
@@stitchedfreedom I can't totally blame them. Her character is so well-hidden and there are glimpses of her true nature in banters, which are not triggered so frequently. Samson is another character who, like Vivienne, is underrated by fans. He seems bland at first, that's why many people prefer Calpernia to him, but I assure you, once you listen to his hidden dialogues and scenes in DA2, once you read his short story 'Paper & Steel', he becomes very interesting. Every line he pronounces in DAI hides his true nature, that's why I always feel his judgement was his only true victory in the game. He shows the hypocrisy of the Inquisition. Loghain is another of my favorites. I simply like discovering all the layers of some characters. They can be problematic, but they have, at least, a hidden logic.
she has a lot of content in the side quests of the hinterlands and is even linked in some way to the 2 mages that are killed you can also meet her there before going to orlais if you do the quest in the proper order and this changes her later meeting with you a little saying that you helping her find out what happened to them is the reason for the invite to the party and her wanting to join as she sees you are trying your best to help all affected by the current state of the world
I love Vivienne! My first playthrough I didn't use her. My first impression was yea she's rude and her view of mages was a bit off putting. On my next I tried her out and I realized how wrong I was. Solid squad member, her banter with the others, especially Dorian and Iron Bull, are my favorite and she's underrated and more complex than the fandom give her credit for. She does actually care about the mages, I can understand where she's coming from and if you're friendly with her I believe she genuinely cares for the Inquisitor. She's a permanent member of my squad.
Barrier and Resurgence are invaluable! But that aside, I couldn't stop thinking about Anders when dealing with Vivienne in my initial playthrough. I now have more insight for my next playthrough and think it may be possible for her to get along with Anders.
I grew to love Viv because at first I couldn't stand her as I think the Circle is corrupt. It you get close to her you find out who she really is and what she cares about. Cole also gives you a glimpse of who she is behind all the armor. It's unfortunate for Viv that many of her views on magic have been shaped by the Chantry, it actually limits her knowledge and power, unlike Morrigan. Speaking of which, Viv should really be careful about messing with her, Morrigan knows arcane arts that Viv couldn't possibly dream of. I also don't approve of her treatment of poor Cole. That too is shaped from the Chantry, her own arrogance, and possibly some childhood trauma she experienced prior to coming to the Circle. She's a good character with some complexities that freaky make her interesting, and she's unique to most Black characters that you might get in fantasy genres. I'll be making her Divine in my next play through. I can't wait to see more of her in the future.
Vivienne is my go to choice for Divine Victoria. Cassandra admits she's wrong for a leadership position And Leliana is too damaged. Plus, since I go with Templers most of the time, its easy putting her on the throne.
Vivienne always felt to me almost like a mother figure to the Inquisitor. Especially with high approval. It's not the 'caring mother' type of relationship. It's more the aristocratic mother type. She wants you to excel, she gives incredibly good advice and while extremely bias in her views, the thing is she has a point. I always leaned towards freedom for mages and magic, but thanks to Vivienne's experience and talking with her, I actually went with milder choices that still gave mages more freedom WHILE keeping some safeguards. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. But the original mentality of freedom for all in Thedas doesn't really work for the best (I'm looking at you, Anders. You know what you did). I wouldn't make her Divine, cause that... that won't go well, but she absolutely deserves and is a good influence as a leader among mages so long she has a good counterbalance.
There are a couple key things that were missed that give more insight into Viv character. In Redcliff when you go to meet with Fiona you can talk to some of the mages that are in the city. One of them will ask the Inquisitor if he was really there to help them. The Inquisitor can pick the option "You should be locked up" which actually comes out with them saying "This rebellion is doomed, I gave your leaders a chance to end this peacefully" and the mage will say "What choice did we have, stay and be slaves?" and Viv will reply "There are better ways than War to effect change!" Also in Redcliff you can unlock the shack near the waterline and where you find Connor if you saved him. When you open it and read the book on the table you learn that the skulls you find around the maps with Christal eyes are tranquil skulls. If Viv is with you she will say "I had hopped they would be safe with the Rebel Mages. It appears I was mistaken!" and is very angered by this. During the events of Haven when Corypheus attacks there is the quest to save people on your way to the chantry. If Viv is with you she will act as though she doesn't care and say you do not have time and must hurry however, if you manage to save everyone it will actually earn you an increased approval rating with her. Also, after you get to Skyhold after those events, your Inquisitor can show remorse for not being able to save everyone in Haven. This will also gain you an increase approval rating with Viv and she will say that you did not fail them and those people gave their lives for a great cause and you will fail them now if you give up. If you take her to Val Royeaux during Blackwall's side quest when the man is being hanged, Viv will show disgust and sadness at the amount of people who showed up to see the hanging and will say "Look at all these people. I had hopped we were more civilized than this" And one more thing with Cole; after the events with the Grey Wardens and after Cole's side quest they will speak in party banter. Cole will call her out saying that she was worried about him to which Viv will deny this. He will then go onto say that no, part of her was worried about him and cared but she doesn't show this because she feels caring makes her appear weak and to not worry, her secret is safe with him. Viv doesn't even comment to deny this and that is where the banter ends. There are a lot of small things that show that Viv is actually a lot more caring than she lets on. She will even tell an Inquisitor with negative approval in Skyhold that her fear is for her fellow mages because she does not want to see the people of Thedas hunting mages down out of fear of magic. The majority of the things I mentioned can be seen with in game footage in the following links Vivs comment about the Tranquil: th-cam.com/video/pWla_T3osWw/w-d-xo.html You can also see here where she tells a Rebel Mage there are better ways than war to effect change here: th-cam.com/video/TqRu5qgKnm0/w-d-xo.html Viv’s comment about society during the hanging in Blackwall's quest here: th-cam.com/video/JLgJJprMQ0s/w-d-xo.html
Absolutely! Sadly, much of Vivienne's backstory and motivations aren't directly tied with the main story missions, so if people didn't have a good first impression with her, they probably didn't take her anywhere and didn't get to learn anything about her beyond her surface level banter in skyhold. So much of Vivienne's character is revealed through party banter and reactions to things happening in game that if you didn't go out of your way to get to know her, you don't see how complicated and caring she actually is.
@@sveipr Agreed! This was one of the main reason why I spent hours playing the game in order to compile the footage that showed all those key things that many people likely didn't get to see. It was exhausting constantly trying to tell people how much they actually missed about her so I simply made a highlight video that showed everything in a short format called "Vivienne Cared" th-cam.com/video/UXUVA0uK_7E/w-d-xo.html
I love Vivienne so much, in my opinion she's one of the best character you encounter in Inquisition, but I understand why many people don't appraciate her
The impression I've always gotten is that a mages country of origin doesn't influence which circle they end up at as greatly as we might assume. You've got to imagine that they don't want any one circle to have too great an influx of child apprentices at once. I think you're sent to the closest circle by default because that's the most convenient option for the chantry, but the moment it ISN'T the most convenient, I think they shuffle mages around pretty freely. I'm sure that a powerful family can influence where their child goes (that's basically the whole story of the creation of the Montsimmard Circle) but commoner parents probably get no say whatsoever. Wycome was probably the next closest Circle that didn't have too many apprentices, so Viv got shipped there. I'm sure that her move to the glamorous Montsimmard Circle was all down to her skill at political maneuvering, however.
Shout out to Vivienne for also giving a mage companion who wasn't pro circle abolishment. I'm dislike the circle myself, but it's nice getting into an argument with an actual mage character rather than a zealous strawman
I think there's a lot of merit in Vivienne's position about mages even if I'm personally a lot more *ahem* rebelious. I mean, as a symbol, she's a f*cking mage and also the Divine. The Divine! I think she's very dedicated to keeping mages safe, including from the people in Thedas which really hate magic (thanks Chantry) and will kill mages at every opportunity. Creating Circles which are safe, nurturing instituions of learning (where templars are held accountable) is an interesting attempt at peace for her people
Love this video!! Thanks for covering my all time favorite character! She’s truly complicated and doesn’t get unpacked enough. You’ve gotten my life and sub!
I think she's a very very interesting character. The Lady of Iron is a staple in my party at all times because she always talks about the Game, which I find to be a really important part of Inquisition, as well as her character. She lives by the game to stay in relevance and power. Hell, she even manipulated the Marquis into drawing his blade at you when you go to her salon to recruit her, and Cole even mentions this. She joins the inquisition to be in close proximity with the two that will most likely be elected as Divine, gaining her extra favor through pack and trauma bonding lmfao. It's a very smart play and even gives her the ability to become Divine herself, if you go for that. However, I absolutely hate her views on magic. She thinks that the Templars are the only way to keep Mages on the straight and narrow, and fears the possibility of mages running themselves. There's a party banter convo between her and Cassandra that I remember where she tries to push for The Circles to be remade with the help of Seekers and Templars, Cassandra talks about how Templars abused the Rite of Tranquility, kept it secret, and used it to oppress mages, but Vivienne's rationale is that Mages did the same when Tevinter Magisters broke into the Golden city and started this whole thing to begin with. The thing is, Tevinter Mages do keep a better hold on their magic with a more relaxed templar system. Of course, they do practice blood magic, but they only use their own blood and don't delve into what caused the Kirkwall incident or the issues with The Grey Wardens. Even though their practices are taboo, their more loose restrictions allow people to understand things better. What Vivienne is pushing would only do more of the same and perpetuate the cycle. She's experienced the templar blade at her throat during her harrowing, and yet thought it was peachy keen that they are always prepared to kill mages at the smallest slight of abomination. The morale between Templars and Mages was bad before Kirkwall and Inquisition, and now it'll be worse. It won't do anything but suppress mages and magic even more. Blood magic isn't taught at all outside Tevinter because they're afraid of it, and then they don't know what to do when it happens. It isn't all demon summoning and offensive magic. Also, I understand that she's more of a foil for Solas's spirit-liking sort of magic, but I don't like that she takes issues with Cole and calls him a demon when he technically isn't. It kills me that she has no interest in understanding something new to her, and it feels sort of stupid in a way. She deals with humans that act like demons all the time, but a "demon" that is human-like is of no interest and shouldn't be studied or understood? I get that she's more of a religious mage, but I think she's really at fault here. The point of magic is to understand what most fear, but she's perpetuating fear and trying to convince others that it's all rational. That's much more Templar minded than Mage minded.
It's been a long time since I did a playthrough ending with Vivienne as the Divine, but this video jogged my memory and gave me some more food for thought. Certainly, if you were to ask who "her people" are, it's pretty obvious that the group she cares the most about (outside of her friends) are the mages, and the fact that this group emerges more powerful than before just proves it. Funny that it's so despite her being so overtly hostile to Tevinter.
I’d love it sooo much if you did a video on Cassandra! I know she has ALOT to cover but I’d LOVE to see it! P.S. Iv been binging your videos, and I just want to say… I LOVE HOW MUCH YOU LOVE DRAGON AGE!!! I love it just as much! Please never stop making videos!!
My main complaint with this game is that there is just took much damn content. I think I played about 30 hours before I reached skyhold the first time. I remember being like WTF?!?! when they did the introduction to the game at Skyhold lol. Oh and my 2nd biggest complaint is not having my Mabari!!! If you were to actually take your time and read all the codex and investigate all the ins and outs of every region in have no idea how many hours that would be. In regards to Viv, I prefer her to any of the mages. I usually roll with Cassandra, blackwall, and Viv. Great video though!!!
Whe can resume Vivian in a simple phrase "I am a success story in a rotten system and all of you are failures who couldn't wait a little longer for me to fix what I didn't fix before because it didn't suit me
I somewhat agree with her policies regarding mages. I made her Divine because it’s important that a mage sit on the throne because only a mage knows the dangers of magic. If you do it right, keep things friendly with her, and make sure to keep the Inquisition functioning, the ending isn’t that bad. Mages will have 3 organizations they can officially choose to join, The Bright Hand, College, or Circle, Vivienne will tolerate all 3 since she still has ties to the inquisition.
I hadn't thought about it before this video because I sided with Anders in DA2. I think I agree with her as Divine now mostly because I understand her more via Cole.
@@free2express08 The mages in DA always radicalize because the restrictions are too tough.But too lenient, you get something like Tevinter. With Vivienne on the throne you get more freedoms and responsibilities while simultaneously getting the magic in check
I want to see how she and Anders would mix. She wants the circle for safety. He doesn't, because of it's oppression. But what if her being Divine could foster understanding between the two? Anders is against blood magic. She could ensure that mages were not oppressed, while also protecting mages and non mages from the dangerous side of magic. I think Anders wants that too.
I've always loved and gravitated towards Viv. She's honest in a calculated sure of her survival way. She finds her into the best scenarios for her survival and then finds fulfilling things in between. Though I can't say I always agree with her, she's an asset to my Inq and happy to be if Im willing to do the same.
Vivienne is both an amazing Parallel and Foil to Anders. Both have similar goals, but have drastically different approaches. Anders wants to save mages by abolishing the system, while Vivienne wants to save mages by bringing systemic change to the system.
Yes. My love for Anders caused me to miss many of the details of Vivienne. It was hard for me to support her in my initial playthrough knowing what Meredith had done.
My head cannon on vivienne is that she was happy of her family and heritage and was ready to go to Rivain with her family and all that but something happed to make her afraid. Maybe her mom or a loved one turns into an abomination or something and kills her parents/family. She’s left alone, wondering around hungry and scared and she winds up in Ostwick. She learned how dangerous her magic is, and that’s why she’s dedicated to the Circle, and she is so determined to always be in control, so she doesn’t turn into the abomination or be alone and cold and hungry again etc.
I think if Vivienne was given more importance in the story or details that didn’t require random party banter I would’ve liked her much more! I love characters who are cunning and verbally adept in political intrigue but none of her character arc felt like it had any payoff. I think it’s really interesting how a lot of her details are hidden because it just shows how little she gives about what is underneath her iron exterior. She calculates what she wants people to think about her and only presents information that will make them perceive what she wants. It’s cool but I wish there was more!
I actually hated Vivienne in my first playthrough, but ended up loving her in my second and onwards. She's a good person with a heart in the wrong place and is quite naïve about certain topics.
I always wondered if she ever really liked the Inquisitor as a friend even if you have a good relationship with her. Like is it really you she likes or is it your position and you helping advance her position as well? It always seemed like she kept everyone at arm's length both to protect herself and to have an advantage if she needed to work against you as there wouldn't be many feelings involved. Even with the Duke she didn't seem to fully give feelings to him, a lot of it was because he was in a great position of power and could help make her untouchable.
Such an underrated unappreciated character. Despite eggheads dispute about Viv not caring about her fellow mages, she’s doing everything in her power to prevent mages from being seen as dangerous.
Your character videos are my favorite to listen to! Personally I adore vivienne and think many of her opinions are justified I have a hard time bringing her with me though because she can be so catty with your other companions and I very quickly get fed up😅. I don’t know if there’s a group she gets along with but I haven’t found it yet. As a character though she is phenomenal and I loved seeing her interact with the world outside of your adventures. I really hope to see a Varric video soon! He’s my favorite tied with Solas😂
She's got her good and bad moments, but she really was the blueprint for Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girlboss 💕 I can respect her and I like her friendship with the inquisitor but at the same time she's rather rude and cruel, but I can vibe with that
Even if I don't agree with her and didn't even like her at first, one has to respect her in the end. After completing her character quests I was surprised how genuine she was. An admirable and respectable woman.
Funny enough Viv convinced me of her ways of managing the Circles, though I will say the way she represents herself will VASTLY dwarf her peers, but she is still proof of point none the less.
She argued with Solas. She finished her point by saying for Solas view on people using magic to work in society, you essentially have to be a God. She actually said this to SOLAS!
Solas isn't a god, though. He's a powerful, prideful mage. Also, she said he needed "eternal life and omniscience." He isn't all knowing, which is why he keeps putting his foot in it.
I disagree with your view Ghil Dirthalen. Yet I am very thankful because you inspire me to upload my opinion. I just can't get around the Elephant Doh. Thanks.
After this video I have a more appreciation for a controversial character like Vivienne. Initially, I didn't expect a mage to favor the circle so strongly. But then Cole's insight makes me imagine myself in Vivienne or any mage's shoes going through their Harrowing. They may not want to be oppressed but they also want to be safe.
I love Vivienne, to me she's one of the most complex characters in DA and I wish fandom didn't see her as so one dimensional. One thing I want to point out is that the cutscene with Bastien's family isn't just high approval (I think it's from giving the real heart). And there's actually a low approval version, where she doesn't give you a ring, but also is much more obvious to you that her actions with the potion were at least partially for her own benefit, since she keeps her influence on the council with his son that otherwise would have been lost with Bastien's death. It might also be referenced in the high approval version, but in that one she seems genuinely glad that it also increases the Inquisitor's influence as well as her own
I've always thought she was much older than she lets on. I've also always thought there's a lot more to her than we've been able to learn about. I'm curious about her.
No, she isn't cold hearted, but indoctrinated - why? She was a poor child and the circle gave her a home, 3 meals a day, wealth and even power and thus she wants it back, because for her it worked out alright! That's like in today's society if you are at the top (say if you studied computer technology and programming and have a job that gives you all the freedoms you want and decent paycheck!)...if you aren't then wanting that society torn down isn't so far fetched! Vivie is sad case IMHO!
I have a theory that Leilana is Andraste reincarnated or at least a descendant. With her visions, her dedication to her faith and her mission to change things. I think the maker brought her back to life in the temple of sacred ashes. She's brought back as Leilana, perhaps with no memory because the maker didn't want history to repeat itself. He may have given her a resistance to lyrium and made her stronger to prevent her death. Of course the warden can kill her but they're a grey warden, not a regular human. Possibly capable of destroying powerful souls rather than just the old gods. The voices could be Andraste, the forgotten part of her, talking to her and guiding her. I'm sure someone could get better information to back this up or even to disprove it.
Anybody as narcissistic as Vivienne, harbors great shame somewhere in their character timeline. Like you said, it's likely rooted in her parents, and I wouldn't be surprised if she glossed over important details (or omitted or changed them) to fit the narrative she wants for herself. She honestly reminds of the Mrs. Bucket from "Keeping up Appearances", just less absurd.
Vivienne is my antithesis so while I can recognize her needs and understand her perspective I am very unsympathetic to them. The world Thedas and Earth is a mess no small part due to people like her that thrive in and perpetuate systems they cannot see beyond.
I can't express enough how much I *love* Vivenne. From the moment I got her as a companion she went on just about every mission with me. My first Dragon Age Inquisition character was a warrior (he was a best boi and I still love him) so I generally took Vivenne, Dorian, and either Varric/Cole everywhere. I also really enjoyed her take on my romance with Dorian. That all aside- she was a breath of fresh air. I enjoyed her being to the point, and more so that she didn't pretend to be okay with everything I did. She also makes extremely good points as to how your actions will have lasting consequences. She is, in my opinion; the best Advisor the Inquisitor can ask for. And like Cassandra she'll actually follow you into a fight- whether it be bandit, darkspawn, or a freaking High Dragon.
Vivienne is the smartest person in Inquisition. Not only was she the only one suspect Florianne, but also the only person who suspects Solas. The level of deduction it takes to notice inconsistencies in others. She reads them, and spots the parts that don’t fit with their behavior. She is by far the only Divine I ever choose.
I love the entrance of viv and the way her personal quest was written to make you think she was doing it for herself and the snow White reference even to the point you can give her a fake heart. It's just perfection always adored her character. Have a soft spot for "evil" but we'll written women.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 80 | คู่เอก "รักษ์ vs ยอดนำชัย"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ckLMRorsMeY/mqdefault.jpg)
Fun fact: “the blue death” is an old euphemism for cholera. Generally it’s nicer to say “she was taken by the blue death” over “she just kept pooping until her blood turned to sludge in her veins.”
Neat!
Ayyy. Came to clarify. Glad I'm not the one to elaborate 😅😂
Yep, the "blue" part refers to how severe dehydration (in this case, caused by vomiting and diarrhea) can cause a person's skin to turn blueish, known as cyanosis.
Vivienne and Dorian in the same party produces some of the funniest banter in the game - especially if you bring Solas along and they go total "Mean Girls" on him.
I'm against the mean girls concept but loved this banter combo
Were they mean? Yes
Did the they lie? No
About the "No one will ever control me again." part. Vivienne is referring to the demon that almost possessed her in her Harrowing, the demon controlled her for a brief moment so the Templars were about to kill her and she smiled at them to show that she was still herself. That's why she is so rude to Cole, she fears demons and spirits.
I loved Vivienne even if I disagreed with her opinion on the Circle. She really does grow to care about the campaigns if you take the time to know her.
Same
Vivienne is someone I love as a charater but probably couldn't stand in real life. I don't feel comfortable with her beliefs and it's very concerning to me.
Yup I may never make divine buts she's growing on me
I love that all of her emotions described by Cole are “cold”, but it’s apparent in the way he paints her memories that it’s always a means of protecting herself because of how much she does care.
Edit: I also love that Divine Viv has a divine-themed spa outfit in Tresspasser 😂
I love the low approval scene of vivienne, she just goes full high school mean girl and I am all for it
She ain't leavin' but by golly she's gonna make you suffer for it.
I fell in love with this character the moment I met her.
My Inquisitor asked her what was in the Inquisition for her
Vivienne: "The chance to meet my enemy. To decide my fate. I won't wait quietly for destruction"
Also, I got Viv to be Divine in my first playthrough no cheats, allied with mages. I just agreed with her
I don't particularly like Vivienne, but that line gave me so much respect for her
I think it's crazy how many people hate Vivienne vs love Dorian. They're really so similar in many ways, he's just more sarcastic in his demeanor and she's more serious. I don't mean they're similar in their political stances or anything but, rather, like, as humans to be around lol
I absolutely LOVE Vivienne. I feel that the people who don't like her recruited her and only spoke to her after the main story missions and decided they didn't like her without taking her anywhere and getting to know her.
It's revealed through Cole's and Vivienne's companion dialogue that Vivienne was originally a scared little girl that feared for her own safety and that when she was discovered to be a mage and taken to the circle, that she decided to never feel scared or unsafe ever again, and it has influenced the main tenants of her character. She sees the circles as a haven that has saved mages away from the common people of thedas that are terrified and persecute mages. She views gaining political power as a means for securing safety for herself AND other mages.
People say she's anti-mages when she literally loves being a mage and when made Divine or the Grand Enchanter she establishes the Circles as prestigious academies like those in Tevinter, gives the mages the most freedoms they have EVER had, and makes the mages/circles into a political power house.
People say she's pro-templar when she literally doesn't care what happens to the templars and strips away their authoritative power by leashing them more closer to her. Cullen even says her views on Templars as "surprisingly traditional" showing that she distrusts Templars like most mages do.
People say she doesn't care about the little people, when she's one of the few people that approve of saving everyone in Haven and is horrified when everyone shows up the Mornay's execution in Val Royeaux (while Sera just wants to find food). She is also disgusted when you discover that Oculara are made of the skulls of tranquil and states that she wished for them to be safe with the Rebels.
Vivienne intentionally puts on a cold and distant demeanor because that is what she has needed to do to survive as a mage in the Orlesian court. She has done that so well, that most of the player base fall for it all the time.
Tbf one Vivienne's approval goes really low she won't talk to you much anymore outside of specific cutscene interactions and for a mage freedom player you can get a lot of disapproval from her pretty early. So I could see having a bad experience with her first time.
Plus she can't solo dragons anymore since the KE nerf so less reason for people to take her.
I don't like her cause she's mean to Cole.
@@coltonalbright7544 And in Coles banter with her he says she cares about him but she dont want to show because she thinks caring makes her weak. So she just treat him like that because she is afraid of demons because she was almost posessed by one. And to be honest, the most people would be terrified of Cole, he can just make people forget who he is and can kill and just make people forget like he did to mages before
@nicolem3951 Of course it's natural to be afraid of him at first, but she NEVER opens up to him or even calls him by name. He's only my pet demon or it. Her prejudices are pretty significant and honestly pretty hypocritical given how she feels about magic.
I love the dialogue between Viv and Cole, it really humanizes Viv and puts a lot into perspective about her character
You can really how much she glosses over details or her past to make herself look exactly how she wants others to see her.
The bit about her disappearing into the dark? I regret not killing the fucker 😡
I didn't initially know Cole was reading her mind.
I think she's one of the most criminally underused characters in the series!
One of my favorite companions. I love how smug she is. Iron Bull’s description sums her up perfectly:
Iron Bull (To solas IIRC): “Vivienne has this swagger, like she thinks she’s the most dangerous thing in the room.”
Vivienne: I am the most dangerous thing in the room.”
I can see why she gets so much hate because of this, but this is exactly why I love her.
Vivienne is one of my favorite characters in inquisition. While I don’t tend to have them together in the party, I love the interactions you get to see with Vivienne and Cole. Vivienne is able to put on a mask that would fool anyone, but cole is a spirit and that mask might as well not exist. It shows a side to her that I never saw when I was first playing and thought she was just the stone cold opportunist. I think she has genuine reasons for supporting the circle much like Wynne and half the mages which is why it was a tie in Asunder. As a mage, she has had to deal with the horrors that other mages can cast down first hand.
As we find out in Trespasser it was Elf mages who terrorized the world and nearly ended it. It was another elf mage who lobotomized the whole world. It was human mages who brought the Taint back from the fade and started the Blights. Every worldwide threat has been because of magic and the mages.
@@ZehnWaters
Yet people hate viv for telling the truth 🤷
The circle is needed
@@LoopyLemon775 She is a very misunderstood character and people that hate her create their own narratives against her despite what is shown in game that contradicts their views on her. For example, they say "she is doing everything for her own power"
Vivienne: recommends Cassandra as Divine and only wants the circle restored to protect Mages from abuse from Templars so they can actually be safe and practice magic.
Or
"She wants mages to remain imprisoned and abused in the Circle."
Vivenne: Never disagreed with Fiona's vote for independence for mages, only expresses it was poorly timed. She herself even admits to experiencing abuse from Templars.
I have to believe these are just angsty teens following the crowd and hating on Viv without actually paying attention.
@@dirtydan9153 She does, overtly, disagree with Fiona’s vote for independence. Why else would she introduce herself as ‘leader of the last loyal mages.’
You are blatantly wrong and pretend to take the moral high-ground against null arguments like, “she just wants power.” Frankly, she is the only one of the three candidates who declares a desire for the position and makes minimal changes to an oppressive system. Good luck communicating like that in real life; all emotion, no facts.
@@ThatFont Ok? If that line is the best you can do to show proof of her "overtly disagreeing" then you're grasping at straws. Cause again, when asked about the vote she said it was "poorly timed" I mean did you not see what situation the rebels ended up in? It wasn't just poorly timed, but poorly handled too. Fiona and the rebels were no better than Vivienne, but you seem hell bent on looking for any reason to hate on Viv, even though Fiona and the rebels put more lives at risk with their actions and gave people more reasons to fear mages, unlike Viv and those who chose not to rebel.
Lol i could care less about having the "moral high ground" or pretending to for that matter. I'm simply referencing what was shown in game, while you are the one who is all emotion and no facts. You saying Viv makes minimal changes proves that. For one, you can make that same argument with Cassandra and most people have. 2, The game legit showed when Viv is divine that mages now have more political power and the Templars are kept in check or disband due to Viv being a mage and not wanting to serve a mage. So to say Viv is the only one who makes minimal changes shows how biased you are against Viv and proves what i said that Viv haters keep creating false narratives to make her look worse than she really is, despite the game showing otherwise.
Vivienne is by far underrated and done so dirty (as far as community opinion). I don't agree with her views, but fuck I love her as a character. And I really appreciate how you handled covering her here, acknowledging underneath that calculating and cold armor is that passion and care. Lots I learned too so thank you!
I love Vivienne, she takes some getting used to but I never thought she didn't care. She is very complex and amazing, and so so strong and sure of herself.
When I saw this video, I clicked immediately.
I adore Vivienne! During my first playthrough, I hated her. She was stuck up to high hell, and I couldn’t vibe with her at all. It wasn’t until I did my mage run, and when I got to know her that felt so stupid. Those moments when she opens up makes her unbelievably special and her journey to get to the inquisition just so powerful.
Even in the end, I made her Victoria, she was the best choice after all. Lilianna, even harden, is too light on the mages, and Cassandra will just be a continuation of the last Divine. I believe some one like Vivienne, with both her cunning and insight into how the circles and mages actually operate was the best choice.
I wouldn’t say im a simp for her, but gawd I love that woman.
I hadn't seen her that way. In my playthrough, I was so preoccupied with her love for the circle - but I love Anders - that I couldn't see the good that she might do in keeping mages in check while also making sure another Meredith doesn't happen.
Nah mate, a church should be led by someone who actually gives a shit about said religion. Seriously, you don’t think three different rebellions all ending in blood baths is a bit of a red flag? The real choice for Divine is enlightened Lilianna. Who actually uses diplomacy and politics to resolve conflicts more than Vivienne does. Think on that.
@@H240909 Again, Lilianna, even harden, is too light on the mages. To compare, she’s basically a hippy - only able to see something like “Oh, these poor mages! They should be let free!” Though they hold immense power, and if not controlled can easily harm, kill…etc. Not everyone’s not a Morrigan, and that’s most likely who she’s basing her ideas from.
Imagine how irresponsible it is to point at just one mage and say “Hey! Hey! This one is harmless!” And then base an opinion on the whole group. Thought out the games, you see magic uncontrolled can cause mass amounts of suffering. Have you forgotten the quest line “In Hushed Whispers”?
You can’t let power like that run all freely, thus the circles. However, the circles need to be reformed and there’s only one person fit for the job. The only one who’s seen the nit and grittiness of it. Vivienne. People trusted her enough to follow her under the mages’ rebellion, and through her smarts and cunning, was able to make a position that was literally just a court jester into something with actual power and backing.
I’m not sure if you’re switching around Josephine for Lilianna when you say “diplomacy and politics” because Lilianna has never displayed any of that. While I will admit both Lilianna and Vivienne have both participated in the Great Game, Lilianna seemingly only stuck to underground while Vivienne, again, basically gained the ear of the Empress.
Secondly, where ever was it said that Vivienne isn’t Andrastian? She’s just as much apart of the religion just as much as Lilianna. Are you saying that because Vivienne just didn’t throw herself into the chantry as Lilianna did?
Maybe you should think on things, fam.
@@M3ntalT0mBoi "You're too soft on the mages" is exactly the kind of thinking that started the mage rebellions in the first place. And Lilianna DOES reform the Circles, she just doesn't force people to stay in them because doing so is a stupid idea that's begging for revolt. Instead she gives them an option to stay in the Circle of their own free will, or join the College of Enchanters. You make it sound like she just lets them run wild, which she doesn't. Also, have YOU forgotten who saved everyone during the "In Hushed Whispers" questline? Dorian, a MAGE!
Also, the fact of the matter is that enlightened Divine Lilianna is a MUCH better diplomat than Divine Vivienne. We see it in the epilogue for Inquisition. What does Vivienne, the supposed master deal maker do when confronted with opposition? She has EVERYONE who disagrees with her KILLED! What does an enlightened Lilianna do? She meets with them face to face and convinces them not to oppose her in the first place AND THEY LISTEN! So who do you think is the better politician? The dictator or the inspirational leader?
Finally, Vivienne doesn't give a shit about the Chantry. She believes in Andraste, but that doesn't qualify her to lead the entire religion. She sees it as a political position and nothing more. Just look at our own world and all the Popes that treated there own positions as political tools. They were tyrants and monsters, every single one of them.
Vivienne is only qualified to lead the Circle, not the Chantry.
You can see the workings of her political uprising (at least late in her 'ascension') in The Masked Empire. When Celene meets with the Montissimards, the wife tells Celene that they've eaten dinner with the Mages. While it may be because of their daughter, Celene does make a note to speak with "Madame de Fer" about their familiarity with the mages. Which i think it pretty damn cool
"We need an institution to protect and nurture magic. Maker knows, magic will find neither on its own." This is such an important quote from Vivienne, and tells you about her motivations. People are so eager to assume she's just selfish and power-hungry. and also to dismiss her perspective and her experiences, because it doesn't fit with what they _want_ the truth about what it is to be a mage in Thedas. Well, that and people get snitty when they're told they can't romance someone :p
I made so many people legit angry when I said I didn't fully support mage freedom. Like yes abuses should stop, and there should be options for trusted and well trained mages to work and live outside of the circle. But at the end of the day, mages are dangerous and that shouldn't be ignored. Like bro, you could become a vessel for a demon at any moment
@@Chris_Meade this is why I don’t think I can make Leliana Divine at all. I mean, letting non-humans into the Chantry priesthood and romantic relationships being accepted sounds pretty cool but disbanding the Circle of Magi is what turns me off. The Circles may not be perfect but they’re necessary in helping prevent mages accidentally setting fire to houses or killing people with lightning strikes and Leliana wants to get rid of them entirely? That just sounds stupid to me.
@JJJwhovian they create the same thing but it's run by mages for mages
It makes total sense for Vivienne to not have an approval changes to who ends up on top in WEWH, but I do wish we could have gotten approval from her for how high well WE did. Maybe a "Greatly Approves" if we end it with the option to publicly confront Florienne
Vivienne is one of my favorite characters actually because she's so deceptively complex. i pretty much disagree with....everything she believes in but i like that she isnt just a one-note "antagonist" or "rival" (if you can call it that when she hates you). her beliefs (as much as i hate them) have logic and i've always found her political and social manuvering to be so ingrained in her character that it's pretty much instinctual at this point. maybe its a result of a hard younger life (that's hinted at, as you mention in the video), survival, ambition, selfishness or a mixture of everything. we can only infer through clues. she DOES care about a select few people, but her actions strike me as "the world is hard and unfair, im doing what's necessary to come out on top" and if that helps others, great. if not, then she has to focus on herself. i think that's what grates some players, including myself, who try to priortize the group over the self. i.e. working for fellow mages even when its inconvenient/unpopular for the existing political structures within the context of the dragon age universe. but the fact she's so hated shows how well written she is? idk
I always say that I don't particularly like her as a person, but love her as a character, for much the same reasons you've outlined.
I liked Vivienne because she’s a character that does something very few fantasy stories do.
Humanize the nobility of her universe.
I remember at the time the game came out there was so much hate for her in the fandom. I think that's not completely unfair as she has some very bad politics but a lot of fans would ignore the complexity of her character and refuse to humanise her. It was like they wanted her to be a purely power hungry person where everything is just to advantage her and her ambition. That's definitely a big part of her personality but it isn't the whole truth.
From her interactions with Cole we learn that she is legitimately afraid of demons and possession. She also witnessed mages being murdered by mages in the tower and this has caused her to hate the rebellion.
So she does have good reasons for her views as well as bad ones. She totally manipulates things to give her more power and control but that isn't the sole motivation for her actions. I hope more is done with this character.
I think she would be the most suitable Mage for Connor Guerrin to apprentice under. Their politics regarding magic and mages would align.
Good point. She also knows noble ways which Connor needs to refine as he ages.
@@free2express08 Heck, if she was Divine she'd probably make changes that let him become the next Arl.
My male human rift mage Inquisitor got along great with Vivienne. They were of like minds, and Vivienne was correct about nearly every issue covered in the game.
One, maybe two minor things you forgot; She has more relevance than most if you approach the templars at Theirinfall. Abernache recognizes her, and she changes up the dialogue a little if she is brought. She will also approve of a Herald who can answer Abernache with the nobility knowledge perk. Also, she has some history with Fiona. So if you take her to the Gull and the Lantern to meet her she has a witty remark or two.
Also, Vivienne doesn't suggest she be made Divine. Not outright, and not even subtly. She recommends Cassandra and makes a strong case as to why. If you agree with her, then that's that. She's happy about Cassandra becoming Divine.
My favourite Vivienne stories are the ones where people expect to get one divine but end up with her completely unexpected. Like if you’re not careful she politically upstages you and I love that from a side character
Her dialogue concerning the tranquil reveals quite a bit of depth too
Vivienne is probably one of my most favorite characters in the whole franchise. I just adore her. She sooooooo “icy” I love it. Her banter with Dorian (my favorite character) is chefs kiss
Glad you made a character video for Vivienne. I truly think she gets more hate than she deserves
One my favorite characters in the whole series.
You can often find my "essays" all over this platform,where I analyze the character ahahah
This comment will be no different.
The Chantry has dangerous politics and Vivienne understood that pretty well. Like the Game, the Chantry often judges people, whether they are reliable or not and
Vivienne's personality is shaped by this cruel and selfish environment.
Showing interest or feelings is dangerous because people can use those against you (like Anders lamented in his romance scene).
She is honest about her views and I somehow agree with her, being pretty neutral about the whole pro-mage and pro-Templar argument.
Magic IS dangerous: Connor and Amelia are two tragic examples.
Wynne herself set a boy on fire, before she was brought to the Circle.
However, that doesn't mean she isn't critical of the Templars: she APPROVES if you say that Templars made their beds and if you believe that they are not the solution.
Her ideal of the Templar is someone like Ser Barris, who protects mages and who is still careful about magic, which is a force of nature.
She used her influence to show mages can be reliable, even in politics, in a world where 'magic should not rule' is a principle.
She also cares.
She cares about the Tranquils discarded by the rebel mages and she approves when you say you want to give Maddox a proper burial.
If you are an elf, dwarf or qunari inquisitor she says there's nothing wrong about being commoner and that she will introduce you to her tailor regardless.
She knows that the Inquisitor is a political figure, built on the reputation of the masses, and she wants them to become someone who will pose as an inspiration.
Her friendship is absolutely amazing and rewarding (just like Solas' friendship).
What I love about Vivienne is that she cares most for those least able to protect themselves, and her dialogue keeps on underlining that, yet a lot of people say she's heartless.
@@stitchedfreedom I can't totally blame them. Her character is so well-hidden and there are glimpses of her true nature in banters, which are not triggered so frequently.
Samson is another character who, like Vivienne, is underrated by fans. He seems bland at first, that's why many people prefer Calpernia to him, but I assure you, once you listen to his hidden dialogues and scenes in DA2, once you read his short story 'Paper & Steel', he becomes very interesting. Every line he pronounces in DAI hides his true nature, that's why I always feel his judgement was his only true victory in the game. He shows the hypocrisy of the Inquisition.
Loghain is another of my favorites.
I simply like discovering all the layers of some characters. They can be problematic, but they have, at least, a hidden logic.
Agreed if you look at what she does she has the best interests of mages in mind. Even if we don't always agree.
she has a lot of content in the side quests of the hinterlands and is even linked in some way to the 2 mages that are killed you can also meet her there before going to orlais if you do the quest in the proper order and this changes her later meeting with you a little saying that you helping her find out what happened to them is the reason for the invite to the party and her wanting to join as she sees you are trying your best to help all affected by the current state of the world
I made her devine by accident the first time trying to make Cassandra devine 😂😂
I accidentally made her divine every playthrough... what's wrong with me LOL.
I love Vivienne! My first playthrough I didn't use her. My first impression was yea she's rude and her view of mages was a bit off putting. On my next I tried her out and I realized how wrong I was. Solid squad member, her banter with the others, especially Dorian and Iron Bull, are my favorite and she's underrated and more complex than the fandom give her credit for. She does actually care about the mages, I can understand where she's coming from and if you're friendly with her I believe she genuinely cares for the Inquisitor. She's a permanent member of my squad.
Barrier and Resurgence are invaluable! But that aside, I couldn't stop thinking about Anders when dealing with Vivienne in my initial playthrough. I now have more insight for my next playthrough and think it may be possible for her to get along with Anders.
I grew to love Viv because at first I couldn't stand her as I think the Circle is corrupt. It you get close to her you find out who she really is and what she cares about. Cole also gives you a glimpse of who she is behind all the armor. It's unfortunate for Viv that many of her views on magic have been shaped by the Chantry, it actually limits her knowledge and power, unlike Morrigan. Speaking of which, Viv should really be careful about messing with her, Morrigan knows arcane arts that Viv couldn't possibly dream of. I also don't approve of her treatment of poor Cole. That too is shaped from the Chantry, her own arrogance, and possibly some childhood trauma she experienced prior to coming to the Circle. She's a good character with some complexities that freaky make her interesting, and she's unique to most Black characters that you might get in fantasy genres. I'll be making her Divine in my next play through. I can't wait to see more of her in the future.
Vivienne is my go to choice for Divine Victoria. Cassandra admits she's wrong for a leadership position And Leliana is too damaged. Plus, since I go with Templers most of the time, its easy putting her on the throne.
Vivienne always felt to me almost like a mother figure to the Inquisitor. Especially with high approval. It's not the 'caring mother' type of relationship. It's more the aristocratic mother type. She wants you to excel, she gives incredibly good advice and while extremely bias in her views, the thing is she has a point. I always leaned towards freedom for mages and magic, but thanks to Vivienne's experience and talking with her, I actually went with milder choices that still gave mages more freedom WHILE keeping some safeguards. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. But the original mentality of freedom for all in Thedas doesn't really work for the best (I'm looking at you, Anders. You know what you did). I wouldn't make her Divine, cause that... that won't go well, but she absolutely deserves and is a good influence as a leader among mages so long she has a good counterbalance.
There are a couple key things that were missed that give more insight into Viv character.
In Redcliff when you go to meet with Fiona you can talk to some of the mages that are in the city. One of them will ask the Inquisitor if he was really there to help them. The Inquisitor can pick the option "You should be locked up" which actually comes out with them saying "This rebellion is doomed, I gave your leaders a chance to end this peacefully" and the mage will say "What choice did we have, stay and be slaves?" and Viv will reply "There are better ways than War to effect change!"
Also in Redcliff you can unlock the shack near the waterline and where you find Connor if you saved him. When you open it and read the book on the table you learn that the skulls you find around the maps with Christal eyes are tranquil skulls. If Viv is with you she will say "I had hopped they would be safe with the Rebel Mages. It appears I was mistaken!" and is very angered by this.
During the events of Haven when Corypheus attacks there is the quest to save people on your way to the chantry. If Viv is with you she will act as though she doesn't care and say you do not have time and must hurry however, if you manage to save everyone it will actually earn you an increased approval rating with her. Also, after you get to Skyhold after those events, your Inquisitor can show remorse for not being able to save everyone in Haven. This will also gain you an increase approval rating with Viv and she will say that you did not fail them and those people gave their lives for a great cause and you will fail them now if you give up.
If you take her to Val Royeaux during Blackwall's side quest when the man is being hanged, Viv will show disgust and sadness at the amount of people who showed up to see the hanging and will say "Look at all these people. I had hopped we were more civilized than this"
And one more thing with Cole; after the events with the Grey Wardens and after Cole's side quest they will speak in party banter. Cole will call her out saying that she was worried about him to which Viv will deny this. He will then go onto say that no, part of her was worried about him and cared but she doesn't show this because she feels caring makes her appear weak and to not worry, her secret is safe with him. Viv doesn't even comment to deny this and that is where the banter ends.
There are a lot of small things that show that Viv is actually a lot more caring than she lets on. She will even tell an Inquisitor with negative approval in Skyhold that her fear is for her fellow mages because she does not want to see the people of Thedas hunting mages down out of fear of magic.
The majority of the things I mentioned can be seen with in game footage in the following links
Vivs comment about the Tranquil: th-cam.com/video/pWla_T3osWw/w-d-xo.html
You can also see here where she tells a Rebel Mage there are better ways than war to effect change here: th-cam.com/video/TqRu5qgKnm0/w-d-xo.html
Viv’s comment about society during the hanging in Blackwall's quest here: th-cam.com/video/JLgJJprMQ0s/w-d-xo.html
Absolutely! Sadly, much of Vivienne's backstory and motivations aren't directly tied with the main story missions, so if people didn't have a good first impression with her, they probably didn't take her anywhere and didn't get to learn anything about her beyond her surface level banter in skyhold. So much of Vivienne's character is revealed through party banter and reactions to things happening in game that if you didn't go out of your way to get to know her, you don't see how complicated and caring she actually is.
@@sveipr Agreed! This was one of the main reason why I spent hours playing the game in order to compile the footage that showed all those key things that many people likely didn't get to see. It was exhausting constantly trying to tell people how much they actually missed about her so I simply made a highlight video that showed everything in a short format called "Vivienne Cared"
th-cam.com/video/UXUVA0uK_7E/w-d-xo.html
I look forward to you covering our other fancy mage. Dorian's probably one of the most interesting characters in the game.
I love Vivienne so much, in my opinion she's one of the best character you encounter in Inquisition, but I understand why many people don't appraciate her
The impression I've always gotten is that a mages country of origin doesn't influence which circle they end up at as greatly as we might assume. You've got to imagine that they don't want any one circle to have too great an influx of child apprentices at once. I think you're sent to the closest circle by default because that's the most convenient option for the chantry, but the moment it ISN'T the most convenient, I think they shuffle mages around pretty freely. I'm sure that a powerful family can influence where their child goes (that's basically the whole story of the creation of the Montsimmard Circle) but commoner parents probably get no say whatsoever.
Wycome was probably the next closest Circle that didn't have too many apprentices, so Viv got shipped there. I'm sure that her move to the glamorous Montsimmard Circle was all down to her skill at political maneuvering, however.
Shout out to Vivienne for also giving a mage companion who wasn't pro circle abolishment. I'm dislike the circle myself, but it's nice getting into an argument with an actual mage character rather than a zealous strawman
I think there's a lot of merit in Vivienne's position about mages even if I'm personally a lot more *ahem* rebelious. I mean, as a symbol, she's a f*cking mage and also the Divine. The Divine! I think she's very dedicated to keeping mages safe, including from the people in Thedas which really hate magic (thanks Chantry) and will kill mages at every opportunity. Creating Circles which are safe, nurturing instituions of learning (where templars are held accountable) is an interesting attempt at peace for her people
Vivienne is far from my favorite character in DAI, but I've always respected her. She provides an interesting perspective on the mage-Templar conflict
Love this video!! Thanks for covering my all time favorite character! She’s truly complicated and doesn’t get unpacked enough.
You’ve gotten my life and sub!
I think she's a very very interesting character. The Lady of Iron is a staple in my party at all times because she always talks about the Game, which I find to be a really important part of Inquisition, as well as her character. She lives by the game to stay in relevance and power. Hell, she even manipulated the Marquis into drawing his blade at you when you go to her salon to recruit her, and Cole even mentions this. She joins the inquisition to be in close proximity with the two that will most likely be elected as Divine, gaining her extra favor through pack and trauma bonding lmfao. It's a very smart play and even gives her the ability to become Divine herself, if you go for that.
However, I absolutely hate her views on magic. She thinks that the Templars are the only way to keep Mages on the straight and narrow, and fears the possibility of mages running themselves. There's a party banter convo between her and Cassandra that I remember where she tries to push for The Circles to be remade with the help of Seekers and Templars, Cassandra talks about how Templars abused the Rite of Tranquility, kept it secret, and used it to oppress mages, but Vivienne's rationale is that Mages did the same when Tevinter Magisters broke into the Golden city and started this whole thing to begin with.
The thing is, Tevinter Mages do keep a better hold on their magic with a more relaxed templar system. Of course, they do practice blood magic, but they only use their own blood and don't delve into what caused the Kirkwall incident or the issues with The Grey Wardens. Even though their practices are taboo, their more loose restrictions allow people to understand things better. What Vivienne is pushing would only do more of the same and perpetuate the cycle. She's experienced the templar blade at her throat during her harrowing, and yet thought it was peachy keen that they are always prepared to kill mages at the smallest slight of abomination. The morale between Templars and Mages was bad before Kirkwall and Inquisition, and now it'll be worse. It won't do anything but suppress mages and magic even more. Blood magic isn't taught at all outside Tevinter because they're afraid of it, and then they don't know what to do when it happens. It isn't all demon summoning and offensive magic.
Also, I understand that she's more of a foil for Solas's spirit-liking sort of magic, but I don't like that she takes issues with Cole and calls him a demon when he technically isn't. It kills me that she has no interest in understanding something new to her, and it feels sort of stupid in a way. She deals with humans that act like demons all the time, but a "demon" that is human-like is of no interest and shouldn't be studied or understood? I get that she's more of a religious mage, but I think she's really at fault here. The point of magic is to understand what most fear, but she's perpetuating fear and trying to convince others that it's all rational. That's much more Templar minded than Mage minded.
We stan a queen, an icon and a legend. 👑 🏆 💜
It's been a long time since I did a playthrough ending with Vivienne as the Divine, but this video jogged my memory and gave me some more food for thought. Certainly, if you were to ask who "her people" are, it's pretty obvious that the group she cares the most about (outside of her friends) are the mages, and the fact that this group emerges more powerful than before just proves it.
Funny that it's so despite her being so overtly hostile to Tevinter.
I’d love it sooo much if you did a video on Cassandra! I know she has ALOT to cover but I’d LOVE to see it! P.S. Iv been binging your videos, and I just want to say… I LOVE HOW MUCH YOU LOVE DRAGON AGE!!! I love it just as much! Please never stop making videos!!
My main complaint with this game is that there is just took much damn content. I think I played about 30 hours before I reached skyhold the first time. I remember being like WTF?!?! when they did the introduction to the game at Skyhold lol. Oh and my 2nd biggest complaint is not having my Mabari!!!
If you were to actually take your time and read all the codex and investigate all the ins and outs of every region in have no idea how many hours that would be.
In regards to Viv, I prefer her to any of the mages. I usually roll with Cassandra, blackwall, and Viv.
Great video though!!!
Viviene is my fave character ngl.
I always make her divine because she is capable and she knows it. As we saw
Vivienne was the first character in the franchise that I actively enjoyed so I'm glad to see this video, great intro also
Crap, I've never brought her to the Winter Palace! What a miss. New playthrough time haha
Whe can resume Vivian in a simple phrase "I am a success story in a rotten system and all of you are failures who couldn't wait a little longer for me to fix what I didn't fix before because it didn't suit me
I somewhat agree with her policies regarding mages. I made her Divine because it’s important that a mage sit on the throne because only a mage knows the dangers of magic. If you do it right, keep things friendly with her, and make sure to keep the Inquisition functioning, the ending isn’t that bad. Mages will have 3 organizations they can officially choose to join, The Bright Hand, College, or Circle, Vivienne will tolerate all 3 since she still has ties to the inquisition.
I hadn't thought about it before this video because I sided with Anders in DA2. I think I agree with her as Divine now mostly because I understand her more via Cole.
@@free2express08 The mages in DA always radicalize because the restrictions are too tough.But too lenient, you get something like Tevinter. With Vivienne on the throne you get more freedoms and responsibilities while simultaneously getting the magic in check
Blue Death is maybe just a fancy way to say she was poisoned?
Vivienne is my favorite character in inquisition and a incredibly underrated character by the fandom.
Very nice closing summary of Vivienne's character.
I love Vivienne. I would love to see her in the future
I want to see how she and Anders would mix. She wants the circle for safety. He doesn't, because of it's oppression. But what if her being Divine could foster understanding between the two? Anders is against blood magic. She could ensure that mages were not oppressed, while also protecting mages and non mages from the dangerous side of magic. I think Anders wants that too.
I've always loved and gravitated towards Viv. She's honest in a calculated sure of her survival way. She finds her into the best scenarios for her survival and then finds fulfilling things in between. Though I can't say I always agree with her, she's an asset to my Inq and happy to be if Im willing to do the same.
Vivienne is both an amazing Parallel and Foil to Anders. Both have similar goals, but have drastically different approaches. Anders wants to save mages by abolishing the system, while Vivienne wants to save mages by bringing systemic change to the system.
Yes. My love for Anders caused me to miss many of the details of Vivienne. It was hard for me to support her in my initial playthrough knowing what Meredith had done.
My head cannon on vivienne is that she was happy of her family and heritage and was ready to go to Rivain with her family and all that but something happed to make her afraid. Maybe her mom or a loved one turns into an abomination or something and kills her parents/family. She’s left alone, wondering around hungry and scared and she winds up in Ostwick. She learned how dangerous her magic is, and that’s why she’s dedicated to the Circle, and she is so determined to always be in control, so she doesn’t turn into the abomination or be alone and cold and hungry again etc.
Would love to see a video on Fenris. I haven’t played DA2 and would love to know more about him!
Wynn have good point, she just wants power
I got her to be divine without even trying. Lol
She was one of my favorite companions, the moment she said "those who favor survival have no need for sentiments" i said ok bestie lets go baddie
my favorite character!!!
I think if Vivienne was given more importance in the story or details that didn’t require random party banter I would’ve liked her much more! I love characters who are cunning and verbally adept in political intrigue but none of her character arc felt like it had any payoff. I think it’s really interesting how a lot of her details are hidden because it just shows how little she gives about what is underneath her iron exterior. She calculates what she wants people to think about her and only presents information that will make them perceive what she wants. It’s cool but I wish there was more!
I've only been able to get vivienne as a divine
I adore Vivienne myself. I have a lot of admiration for her and I enjoy having her in my party.
About the ‘blue death’, Vivian mentions how painful waterborne illnesses are if you bring her to crestwood, so maybe that is a clue.
I think I made a summary on Vivienne in the circle in Her trailer video. Nice video on my favorite character.
I actually hated Vivienne in my first playthrough, but ended up loving her in my second and onwards. She's a good person with a heart in the wrong place and is quite naïve about certain topics.
Vivienne is my favorite character in the dragon age franchise
I consider winter send to be more like Beltane. Even the forging of marriage contracts etc. lines up
I always wondered if she ever really liked the Inquisitor as a friend even if you have a good relationship with her. Like is it really you she likes or is it your position and you helping advance her position as well? It always seemed like she kept everyone at arm's length both to protect herself and to have an advantage if she needed to work against you as there wouldn't be many feelings involved. Even with the Duke she didn't seem to fully give feelings to him, a lot of it was because he was in a great position of power and could help make her untouchable.
Let's not forget, she is an ORLESIAN mage, if she really likes the Inquisitor(and she does), she won't show it openly.
Such an underrated unappreciated character. Despite eggheads dispute about Viv not caring about her fellow mages, she’s doing everything in her power to prevent mages from being seen as dangerous.
And my goodness, look at what the mages who rebelled did to their fellow mages. No wonder Vivienne hated them.
It could also be that her parents were andrastians who didn't believe the rivini beliefs
People who usually go for support the majes don't like Vivienne because she doesn't want us to ally with the majes
Your character videos are my favorite to listen to! Personally I adore vivienne and think many of her opinions are justified I have a hard time bringing her with me though because she can be so catty with your other companions and I very quickly get fed up😅. I don’t know if there’s a group she gets along with but I haven’t found it yet. As a character though she is phenomenal and I loved seeing her interact with the world outside of your adventures. I really hope to see a Varric video soon! He’s my favorite tied with Solas😂
Sub-par as she is, I still really like what little we got of her.
She's got her good and bad moments, but she really was the blueprint for Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girlboss 💕
I can respect her and I like her friendship with the inquisitor but at the same time she's rather rude and cruel, but I can vibe with that
Even if I don't agree with her and didn't even like her at first, one has to respect her in the end. After completing her character quests I was surprised how genuine she was. An admirable and respectable woman.
Thank you for the amazing video!
I don't know who created Vivienne, but this guy should've been working on corypheus, because they made better job at making me hate her than him.
Great video love all the details about the characters I would love to see a video on Wynn
Funny enough Viv convinced me of her ways of managing the Circles, though I will say the way she represents herself will VASTLY dwarf her peers, but she is still proof of point none the less.
She argued with Solas. She finished her point by saying for Solas view on people using magic to work in society, you essentially have to be a God. She actually said this to SOLAS!
Solas isn't a god, though. He's a powerful, prideful mage. Also, she said he needed "eternal life and omniscience." He isn't all knowing, which is why he keeps putting his foot in it.
I disagree with your view Ghil Dirthalen. Yet I am very thankful because you inspire me to upload my opinion. I just can't get around the Elephant Doh. Thanks.
OMG Thank you for this video.
Even though I disagree with her opinions on the circle, I can't help but respect her. She's a well written character!
After this video I have a more appreciation for a controversial character like Vivienne. Initially, I didn't expect a mage to favor the circle so strongly. But then Cole's insight makes me imagine myself in Vivienne or any mage's shoes going through their Harrowing. They may not want to be oppressed but they also want to be safe.
I love Vivienne, to me she's one of the most complex characters in DA and I wish fandom didn't see her as so one dimensional. One thing I want to point out is that the cutscene with Bastien's family isn't just high approval (I think it's from giving the real heart). And there's actually a low approval version, where she doesn't give you a ring, but also is much more obvious to you that her actions with the potion were at least partially for her own benefit, since she keeps her influence on the council with his son that otherwise would have been lost with Bastien's death. It might also be referenced in the high approval version, but in that one she seems genuinely glad that it also increases the Inquisitor's influence as well as her own
I've always thought she was much older than she lets on. I've also always thought there's a lot more to her than we've been able to learn about. I'm curious about her.
No, she isn't cold hearted, but indoctrinated - why? She was a poor child and the circle gave her a home, 3 meals a day, wealth and even power and thus she wants it back, because for her it worked out alright! That's like in today's society if you are at the top (say if you studied computer technology and programming and have a job that gives you all the freedoms you want and decent paycheck!)...if you aren't then wanting that society torn down isn't so far fetched! Vivie is sad case IMHO!
I think that Vivienne think of herself as "Lawful good"
Vivi my fav mage, she and Dorian were powerful assests on my team with My love Iron Bull and my Inquisitor hehe :3
It’s weird that I’m literally playing DA inq and seen this in my recommended looking for something to listen to.
I have a theory that Leilana is Andraste reincarnated or at least a descendant. With her visions, her dedication to her faith and her mission to change things. I think the maker brought her back to life in the temple of sacred ashes. She's brought back as Leilana, perhaps with no memory because the maker didn't want history to repeat itself. He may have given her a resistance to lyrium and made her stronger to prevent her death. Of course the warden can kill her but they're a grey warden, not a regular human. Possibly capable of destroying powerful souls rather than just the old gods. The voices could be Andraste, the forgotten part of her, talking to her and guiding her. I'm sure someone could get better information to back this up or even to disprove it.
Anybody as narcissistic as Vivienne, harbors great shame somewhere in their character timeline. Like you said, it's likely rooted in her parents, and I wouldn't be surprised if she glossed over important details (or omitted or changed them) to fit the narrative she wants for herself. She honestly reminds of the Mrs. Bucket from "Keeping up Appearances", just less absurd.
Vivienne is my antithesis so while I can recognize her needs and understand her perspective I am very unsympathetic to them. The world Thedas and Earth is a mess no small part due to people like her that thrive in and perpetuate systems they cannot see beyond.
I can't express enough how much I *love* Vivenne.
From the moment I got her as a companion she went on just about every mission with me. My first Dragon Age Inquisition character was a warrior (he was a best boi and I still love him) so I generally took Vivenne, Dorian, and either Varric/Cole everywhere. I also really enjoyed her take on my romance with Dorian.
That all aside- she was a breath of fresh air. I enjoyed her being to the point, and more so that she didn't pretend to be okay with everything I did. She also makes extremely good points as to how your actions will have lasting consequences. She is, in my opinion; the best Advisor the Inquisitor can ask for. And like Cassandra she'll actually follow you into a fight- whether it be bandit, darkspawn, or a freaking High Dragon.
Vivienne is the smartest person in Inquisition. Not only was she the only one suspect Florianne, but also the only person who suspects Solas. The level of deduction it takes to notice inconsistencies in others. She reads them, and spots the parts that don’t fit with their behavior. She is by far the only Divine I ever choose.
Same!
I love the entrance of viv and the way her personal quest was written to make you think she was doing it for herself and the snow White reference even to the point you can give her a fake heart. It's just perfection always adored her character. Have a soft spot for "evil" but we'll written women.
I'd like to see a video on Isabela or Leilana. They're such bad asses.