The Kia Niro Takes On The World’s Toughest Electric Car Test - Loveland Trials Ep.2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ธ.ค. 2019
- ( www.TFLcar.com ) The KIA Niro EV is an all electric with 239 miles of range and a 150kw electric motor. In this episode we put it through its paces up to the top of Loveland Pass in Colorado. But can it compete with the likes from Tesla, Nissan, and VW? Watch this video to find out!
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#KIA #Niro #LovelandTrials - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
![The *REAL* Problems With Electric Cars... An Honest Discussion in a KIA E-Niro [VLOG / WAFFLE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/l-XX4bHNZFI/mqdefault.jpg)
Its great to see TFL lead the way in EV content, keep up the excellent work!
Much b tter than all the Tesla Fanboys
Hi I. Have the same car. Colour the best car I have had it got the speed it gpot cruise nothink can say but good car I would say best carof 2019
@@judithbooth3869 I think you have low battery. Charge up and re-post.
Really ? What exactly are you talking about ?
We bought this car in July. I drove it from Seattle to Denver in Eco mode which was fine. We love this car for the range (real world 300 city - 238 highway is about right). We have driven Denver to Vail and back without charging and Denver to Steamboat Springs using only about 56% of range. My wife loves it because it looks like a normal car. The base trim is 40k with the winter driving package and with Colorado and full Federal tax credits you knock $12.5 k off that. That makes the economics of this car much more palatable at around $28k. Real world charging tops out at 76kw, not 100 as this video said. Also love it that Kia rates top 2 in reliability by JD Power. The adaptive cruise control is my favorite feature for long drives. We are replacing factory tires with better snow tires as they suck in the snow and the wet.
Ever charge it when it's really empty, like 5%?
You had me till you said JD Power..
Frank RenewablesCheap I got it down to 10% once. My range anxiety won’t let me get it much lower than that. I’m the guy that only lets me gas SUV down to a quarter tank as well.
How do you use the tax rebate if you don't owe any money when tax time comes?
@@Deetroiter its a NON-refundaable credit, so if you dont owe taxes you dont get it back. It will not help you. Refundable tax credit is the good one, which the electri car unfortunatley is not.
I have this car. We call it the e-Niro in Europe. I have to say, I don't think your result would have been any different in eco mode. It only really dampens the throttle response, which I prefer, as I find it a bit too keen around town in the other modes. You can still get full power of you have a heavy right foot anyway.
My experience of the car is that it's a brilliant daily driver and does anything you could reasonably ask of it. I drive it all over the UK and into mainland Europe and I have not yet been inconvenienced by recharging it or the range.
Kia have done a great job with this car. I know range is a different matter in the US, but I think the Niro EV would meet the needs of all but the highest mileage drivers.
You did very well to get that efficiency! I'm getting around 3.4 miles/kWh here in warmer temperatures, albeit nearly at sea level.
Thanks for the video!
Alex Packer same here. I drive 50 miles minimum and sometimes up to 75 miles each day. In the summer I recharge from 20-80% every third night, now in winter every other night. The difference is that the heating consumes quite some energy. But I like it cozy, so I preheat the car 15 min before I leave up to 70F/21C. We all use the heat seating and often in the first 10 minutes I have the heated steering wheel on as well. And here in British Columbia electricity is relatively cheap and 100% generated using sustainable resources (hydro). So why not use these features. In short: I have never range anxiety and never have to line up for ‘refuelling’. And since electricity prices here are governed by an independent body, I don’t have to deal with crazy fluctuations of fossil fuel prices.
Charging speed should be measured in range added per 10 mins. 0 to 80% charge is meaningless. 80 percent of a tiny battery compared to 80 percent of a big battery is different. Plus this doesn't take driving efficiency into account which matters too. Range added per unit time is the ultimate metric
Agreed, 80% of 100 mile max range is useless
Yes but keep in mind battery size is already accounted for in the range category. The idea is that a small battery will charge faster. So think about it from this approach: For an equal overall score you could have a huge battery and long range with a poor charging rate or a small battery with a poor range but a very fast charging rate.
TFLclassics OK I see what you're trying to do. Would be nice to somehow incorporate range added per 15 mins tho. Most people who don't understand EV still get confused about charging speeds and don't realize driving efficiency matters a lot for charging speed. Please use your awesome channel to educate public about this!
@@TFLclassics its still a useless metric, small crappy car can out perform a long range car even at much lower charging capability. should be something along the lines of kW charge rate or even average miles/hr added to the battery at max charge rate.
Agree - this method provides poor differentiation. Niro charges many more miles/minute than the e-Golf. That is not reflected in this method.
Even the super fast charging speed of the TM3 LR/P models won't show up that much.
Li-ion batteries will never perform well on this benchmark - so TFL will have to wait for some imaginary new technology.
Did anyone else get a little nervous when Tommy started backing the car out of the garage? 😄
The first think that I thought as well.
Oof lol, don’t let him hear that😂
Nah, I've seen my wife back out of the garage and that is bonafide terrifying. Tommy did great.
4x4Scout they’re afraid for the Tesla because he already slammed it into a wall before lol
He makes ONE mistake......
When you announce the "Tommy" score how about showing previously tested EVs for comparison?
Seems like a good idea.
Top gear lap time style!
Yes! This!
Agreed.
That’s something I was expecting at the end of the video.
You should keep a scoreboard for comparison with other models, like Top Gear and their lap times.
Living in London, it's hilarious hearing this described as a 'small' car that's great for zipping in and out of traffic. You'd struggle to zip anywhere in it in this nightmare of a city to drive in!
As you took the model X on the same challenge, at the same time, it would have been nice to make a direct score comparison.
BTW, the e-niro has a max charging power of 77kW, and it takes between 45-55 min to charge between 10-20% up to 80% SOC, so it should have some points for that.
USugo Not according to KIA US. Over and hour for 80%
@@TFLclassics a) 0-80% is an unrealistic measure, as no one, including you daredevils, are going down to 0% SOC.
b) if you are using empirical data for other scores, then you should use empirical data also for both power, and duration of charging. Rather than slacking with claimed specs.
c) reading guess-o-meter ranges to determine range after the challenge can be rather misleading as different cars use different ways to estimate range left. Battery SOC left after the challenge seems a more accurate measurement, and then back calculate range based on average Wh/mile and actual battery capacity.
cheers
@@TFLclassics Just take a look at Bjorn fact charging videos.......
@@USUG0
No one?
Within two weeks of acquiring his new, BMW i3 my neighbor ended up at 0 climbing the hill a block down from our street. He had to call a tow truck to move his i3 some 200 yards or so and roll it into his garage so he could charge it.
He said he was used to his old Leaf and didn't quite make it. :-)
Great video and quite informative! I would like to point out that when you mentioned you'd like to have less abrupt transition from "go" to "whoa" when you let off the pedal, you seem to have forgotten you DO! It's called setting your regen at level 1 for a very mild slow-down similar to a conventional car, or to level 2 for that "instant" yet less aggressive slowing when you suddenly release the pedal, or learning to EASE off the pedal when you're driving around in full regen!
I like to tailor regen on my Kona electric based on traffic and whether I'm trying to hypermile it around town or just get where I'm going. For heavy traffic I run full regen all the time because it gives me that hard, 0.25G braking effect on full let-off and this is really nice in traffic where idiots are alternating between punching it and slamming on the brakes! In lighter traffic I tend to have regen default to level 2, but I also tend to drive with my finger poised over the left and right paddles to use my regen on the fly as needed. For hypermiling I've found the best way in town is to default regen to 1, or 2 when accelerating because believe it or not, you are "regenning" even as you are pulling from the battery! So if your acceleration pulls 30 kWh with 0 regen, adding level 2 will drop kWh draw! It may sound counter-intuitive but it's true. Regen on the Kona electric can deliver as much as 80+ kWh which is more than a DCFC! Once up to traffic flow speed, I'll reduce to 0 regen and coast as far as possible before staging regen back in as I approach the next stop. Using this technique I can quickly get over 5.5 miles per kWh. I've left home with anticipated range showing 200 miles, driven 10 miles stop and go around town only to return home with range available showing 196 miles! On the highway I discovered while trying every combination possible, that best efficiency is achieved by running FULL regen at speed on the freeway! Again, the reason is because the car will generate more electricity than it draws from the battery! At steady highway speeds of say 65 mph where I would draw 17 kWh steady with 0 regen, with full regen the draw will be 13 kWh! I used to get under 4 miles per kWh even driving below 60 mph, but when I discovered to run regen on I find I can exceed 4 kWh at that same speed.
I tried the e-Niro in Europe and was pretty impressed. It’s well finished, well equipped, comfortable AND efficient!
European and American car makers better watch out! The South Koreans are ahead in EV technology.
The price was also correct.
@Ruirotube I do agree, but I think at least European carmakers are taking actions accordingly (ref. VAG, BMW, MERCEDES are launching/ testing many new models). However, Kia/ Hyundai do have suffered some supply issues (batteries is the rumor) which is a shame as they could really have taken a larger portion of the EV-market than they are currently doing.
Ruirodtube, are you totally forgetting Tesla? An American brand. Far and away the leader in EV tech. And to think, this economy class Niro is more expensive than a Model 3!
@@Josh-179 I think that Ruirodtube is referencing car makers that are now adding more and more EV´s to their portfolio and not Tesla that is in their own league. I do see that Tesla will feel more competition from Audi, Jaguar, VW, Skoda, BMW, Mercedes that generally are known for mid- to High-End cars, but not from the Hyundai/ Kia at the moment.
I am not sure Colorado weather is predictable enough to score efficiency going up a mountain
Well its cold. That can effect the performance.
I would like to see a place on your website that shows the scores. Rates who is doing the best. Those points don’t mean anything without context
The scoring system needs a revamp. For example, a vehicle that charges to 100% in 60 minutes should not get the same score as one that charges to 100% in 75 minutes (both 0). And Maybe charging to 80% is fast in which case, I'm OK with moving on at that point. The score does not reflect this metric.
Remember how the English teacher was reluctant to give your essay 100% no matter how good it was? Well, there is a good reason for that. 100% means that there couldn't be anything better and 0 means that there couldn't be anything worse. That is likely not true. And that applies to these EV categories even more than it does to your essays.
The problem with your analogy here is that the batteries are not of similar size. If the charge rate is the same, then they would still get 100% and have different charging times.
I think your charging score is flawed. Since it is based on % charged, it penalizes cars with larger battery capacity. My Honda PHEV Clarity can charge to 80% in about an hour (on level 2 charging) because it has a tiny little 17kwh battery. No one sane would suggest that it should have a higher charging score than the Kia. You should normalize this to charging time for a certain # of kwh or even better for a certain # of miles (which would give a better score to a car that uses the electricity more efficiently). What really matters on road trips using fast charging is how long you have to sit there before you can reach the next charging station. With the same charging rate a car with 600kwh battery is will probably take less time to charge to say 180 miles, but would take far longer to charge to 80%.
Have to say I totally agree. It needs to be a time taken to power the car for a given set of miles, or simply to recharge to 100% (or 80% even) AFTER it has done the Loveland Trial. As to Autonomy I feel the weighting is set far too high and should have a maximum of 10. I would argue that autonomy is NOT what EV's are about bit rather a convenient adjunct nothing more. The e Niro may not be as attractive in the US as in Europe but the Tesla costs about an extra $10-15 K more here. The eNiro is the first EV to actually consider changing. Preferably I would like a Merc B Class with the Kia power train and batteries, but we won't get it sadly.
Great to see EV Test done this way. May I make a recommendation though: To have a kind of "leader-board" where you keep track of all EV scores. Once you score a Vehicle, you add it to the leader board, that way the viewers can see from past tests, how all EV's rank up more or less, according to your scoring system (which I think is very good by the way). Because, to be honest, I cannot remember what the Golf and Tesla Scored in previous tests and just keeping a "leader-board" on hand, will help viewers like me a lot. Thank you guys for the great content you produce.
good idea, I was wondering how this vehicle compared to the others they have already tested
Love the temp reading of 37F, our forecast today is over 44C (112F). Great video.
Good test Tommy! As far as tax credits the Kia gets the full amount while the Tesla has run out, which could also be a consideration for EV shoppers.
7:00 The "100 kW" is the rated power of the charger. The Kia Niro EV can accept up to 200 A, which is a peak charging rate of between 75 and 78 kW.
Adding to News Coulomb the E-Niro is only CCS1 rated (200A) not CCS2
@@ianrobins5501 Yes, they typically rate chargers by peak V * peak A, so a 500 V * 200 A charger would be rated at 100 kW.
Love the scoreig system idea! I think it could be perfected by changing the charging time category metric to miles of range recharged in a given time. It is (1) more practical information & (2) also reflects the vehicle's efficiency. Who cares if you can recharge 20% in 10 minutes if it only extends your range by 10 miles. Porsche Taycan for example charges at a faster rate than a Tesla but burns through the charge even faster, so in the same amount of time you spend at the charging station, you are gaining more with the Tesla.
I would love a real winter test of the most popular EV's.. Talking about range and heating consuption.. like at -25 fahrenheit or lower... 42 fahrenheit is like summer here in Canada loll
42F in Canada they are putting the tops down on their convertibles and they go back to wearing shorts, socks and sandals
@@shawnhill4779 Exactly :-P
Excellent 👍👍 presentation Tommy!
19:30 I believe the Kia Niro EV is rated for charging to 80% in ~55 minutes. It's almost identical to the Hyundai Kona Electric in that regard, and that is the timetable for the Kona.
Bjorn Nyland's video seems to agree with this th-cam.com/video/pRGgOdjXWOY/w-d-xo.html
He didn't test it, just used info from a brochure. Didn't read the manual otherwise he would find the auto regen modes. Didn't standardise his test and probabely didn't use ACC to come down the hill, with ACC you've a lot more regen at a constant speed.
For me a crap test because missing references to compare with others.
And why does a cross over always need 4WD from US point of view, and the rest of the world doesn't.?
From 9% to 80% in 53min on an Ionity charger
th-cam.com/video/r6fKc_adZpQ/w-d-xo.html
Here in Europe, we're gonna see a new VW electric car called I.D. 3 that takes over for the e-Golf. It's about the same size, but it gets a whopping 77 kWh battery and a range of about 500 km. A shame it doesn't come to America.
Soon Skoda will also release the Vision iv.
At launch it will only have the mid-size battery (58kWh) so a quoted range of around 260 miles. We need to see some independent test drives to confirm those figures. There is no definite information on when the larger battery model will be available.
Go Niro Go!!!
Who da hell care about a bigger screen. you don't need a tablet.
Thanks Tommy...thats just about perfect evaluation of this this
Funny when you say "how people drive it on a normal day", I always run it in ECO mode. Not ECO+ tho. There's no reason really to run it in Normal. Not in the city, not on the motorway.
Great review brother you know your stuff very informative thank you keep it going.
I've owned this car for almost a year and using it in ECO mode works for me each and every day.
What differentiates level 2-4 autonomy?
It would be nice to see list of how the other EVs ranked that have done the test route.
Awesome work Tommy..⭐⭐⭐⭐🏁🏁🏁..thanks again
Only this and the E-Golf have taken the Loveland test........ but you own a Model X? Let's see its Loveland test.
Also I prefer buttons on a dash, because I don't want to take my eyes off the road to select things. You do a test to see how long your focus is away from what's in front of you when selecting various functions in a car.
computerbob06 yes I found this guy pretty misleading esp the price of the car , it’s a lot cheaper for the base model which it still as a very good spec , and I actually didn’t mind the looks but totally agree with you on the buttons nothing better then a button that just does it without going into a menu then in another menu to do the same thing
Tommy, thanks for a great unbiased test. Will you do the Bolt as well?
I own a Niro EV and enjoy it more than the I3 or Model 3 (not awd/LR). It's much cheaper with dealer incentives than the other two, has just as much range as the regular model 3 and better range than the I3. I do prefer the design aspects of the I3/M3 over the Niro, but overall glad I sold my I3 to lease my Niro.
very good review!
Good review. A few notes. The Niro EV is on the same platform as the Ioniq and is bigger than the Kona EV and Soul EV. The Kona and Soul do share a platform. However all three do share the same powertrain. Also while the new Soul EV is not yet available in the US. It is available in other markets (like in Canada). The Niro EV needs a 100KW charger to hit it's maximum charge rate. But it will never hit 100KW due to battery voltage. A 100KW charger is rated based on 500VDC and 200A current maximums. The Niro EV can charge at 200A but the nominal battery voltage is 360VDC with low SOC at 310VDC up to a fully charged 400VDC. The maximum charge rate is ~75KW at about 55% SOC. Also the heat pump does not scavenge heat from the powertrain. It's basically an air conditioner that runs backwards. It doesn't make heat. It moves heat from the air to the vehicle heater coolant loop. At temperatures of 32F a heat pump is generally about 3x more efficient than an electric resistance heater. (My house is heated by an air source heat pump [Mitsubishi Zuba Central]). However at much lower temperatures (say -20F) a heat pump consumes just as much energy as an electric resistance heater as it takes much more energy to move energy from that cold of air. So the Niro EV also has an electric resistance heater for those very cold days.
Thank you for the info. I had thought the Niro and Kona were on the same platform. That they are not explains some of the observed differences between the two. I've looked at both in the same parking lot (EV show event) but not side by side. The Kia measures slightly bigger. Enough to fit a suitcase where the Kona failed.
I thought this review was interesting. I understand that both vehicles may differ between markets (UK vs US) so one has to take that into consideration.
insideevs.com/reviews/348927/video-hyundai-kona-electric-vs-kia-niro-ev/
I thought this review missed some important issues:
www.greencarreports.com/news/1123842_consumer-reports-pans-kia-niro-ev-suggests-a-hyundai-kona-electric-instead
There's probably fifty other such Kona/Niro comparisons out there. YMMV.
In slick, wet conditions like this, this Niro EV works much better in Eco mode (since it takes off some of the high torque that you have available in Normal and Sport modes).
This vehicle is now DOA. They had 2 years to sell these, but only produced tiny numbers due to supposed battery shortages.
Now they say they will be able to produce higher numbers by 2021, but that’ll be too little too late since a comparably priced Tesla Model Y will be available in 2021.
I would like you to do a Chevrolet bolt EV and while it's an older electric car at this point.
Surprisingly the bolt has more rear legroom and headroom than the Niro even though the car is significantly smaller, although it's definitely narrower across the rear seats.
Also the usable cargo capacity is not actually significantly better than the Bolt.
I think after you get back to the headquarters and find the total range left you should then go to a DC fast charger or supercharger..
Charge it back up to 100% and get a number.. you could show charging rate and time to get back to 100% after a road trip.
Please don't waste your time on a GM product.
@@briankirby6714
Why?? Reliability has been great on the Bolt EV. As far as I've been able to see.
LG Chem makes ALL the powertrain and battery, and most of the interior Electronics also.
You can pick up a low milage 2017/2018 for $18-25k.
Has more rear leg and head room than a model 3 or a Niro EV or Kona, a bit narrower and less cargo.
Slow DC FC is it's biggest issue..
@@kens97sto171 I agree it should be reviewed as well. However, I also know that a 2015 Leaf has more cargo space. I was actually disappointed in that. I honestly wanted the Bolt to be more comparable or better than the Leaf. The wife liked the Bolt but one look in the trunk and said she could only put 2 bags of groceries in there while in her leaf she can do the Costco run for the daycare and still have plenty of space left over. It looks to me like the major carmakers are just not taking the electric car market that seriously yet. Notice Tesla went straight for what people wanted, a full-size electric car. The others are still making these little sardine cans albeit more functional and with more features than in the past. I guess it's something instead of nothing but personally can't wait for prices to come down and car size to go up. I want an affordable electric car similar in size to a Nissan Rogue and on up to a Tahoe in size.
@@consaka1
You can take the false floor out of the boat and you get about another 5 depth.
But yes smaller than a leaf. the problem with the leaf is it has zero range, and they still have no active cooling on the battery pack which makes it just a disaster waiting to happen.
Where I live it gets to be 108 fahrenheit.
Also it only charges it's 50 kilowatt on a chademo which there are very few of.
The nice thing is now there are a bunch of used bolts out there for reasonable prices.
@@kens97sto171
I live in CA where Leafs are omnipotent. And, the temperatures are known to hit triple digits during the summer months. The non-cooled Leaf batteries may be a weakness of that model. But "disaster waiting to happen"? Hardly. There are plenty of older Leafs running around the major metropolitan areas at any given time. And, you can buy a used one with better than 90% range at a comparative bargain. Enough to make them a very, very cheap, short range commuting. Similar to the way people bought old Honda Civics or Toyota Corollas as commuter cars back when I was a young worker, and got years of low cost use out of them.
It's $39680 for an EX trim here in Texas. It's nicely appointed for that price minus the full $7500 tax credit given if one meets that liability. It's about $500/month.
There is no "minus $7500". It's NOT a rebate or a grant or a cash-back offer at the dealership. It's a tax-credit when you file your taxes with the IRS...and you MUST qualify for it. Only if you have a high tax liability will you be able to get this. But it is NOT a cash-back-in-your-wallet deal.
@@jaroessa294 I never implied it's cash back from the dealer. You have to meet that tax liability threshold in order to qualify for the full rebate from the IRS. In any cases, you're getting something back up to $7500 if you pay your taxes. For my own case, I pay about $12000 in taxes, if I were to purchase the car, I'll be getting the full $7500 credit.
It's very close to year end. We shouldn't count our chickens before their hatched.
www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/energy-green/story/2019-12-18/solar-and-electric-vehicles-shut-out-of-federal-tax-credit-extensions
I do like these BEV tests, and I think for the most part you guys do a great job. As far as the Niro (Kia's) themselves, I don't like the front charging port, I think it could be too susceptible to water ingress. Also, here in the upper Midwest, we deal with a lot of road-spray which often forms a frozen layer of ice on the entire front fascia. I don't want to chisel my way in to charge!
My other comment is the grading scale, I think it's pretty future proof, and I understand your reasoning for it, but I don't think charging scores should be a 0 unless the vehicle doesn't have DC charging OR less than 10Kw on-board/external charging capability. (e.g.; the base Chevy Bolt)
It should be 1 point otherwise. I know we're only talking a 1 point difference here, but it does matter.
Reason why the regen is not adding the power back to the battery is because it is so fast to produce the energy from the motor but the battery could not keep up to recharge them. Actually it will charge a capacitor which shared with battery charging, car electronics and climates. But after a long downhill u filled up the capacitor too, so all the regen become useless after that, yet it is not shown in here. The regen is good if u are in stop and go traffic.
I own the car and have noticed that its best to drive with full regeneration mode. As soon its 1 degree downforce you will get as much energy to the battery and loose as little as possible even when you then help the car with the gas pedal to go forward.
When you travel up a mountain you could have full regeneration or none it will make no differents to the consumtion.
So..keep drivning and use gaspedal
Nice Video. Rather than compare to eGolf, Leaf Plus is a better comparison point. It ended with 40 more miles quite impressive
There is still a full $7500 federal tax credit on Kia/Hyundai. In California, there's $2500.
So the effective cost is $37,500.
Maintenance is lower than a ICE car and you're not buying gas. Also, Kia has a good warranty. 10yr/100,000 mile.
While the scoring system is future proofed, it’s kind of unfair because like you said, no car out now can do what you’re grading a perfect score and even though this car wasn’t very stellar or anywhere near that, It didn’t look like a 24% to me
it isnt unfair at all! I bet even a tesla Y would score not a heck of a lot more then say 30. So comparing the E-Niro at 24 to Tesla Y at 30(ish) seems fair enough to me...
Mike Spark it’s unfair because it isn’t based on anything but fantasy. Nothing right now is probably capable of getting anywhere near an 80%. It doesn’t make sense to compare take the best of what we have now and give that a 60% because the future is going to have better cars. I get what they’re going for, future proofing, but I think that there should be a baseline at least that is currently out there in the market and compare everything else to that
Mike Spark I’m not saying it’s unfair to this specific car, just current day cars in general because only something that doesn’t even exist today can get anywhere near 100 pts.
Kia Niro EV is available in Colorado now ! I just got one from I25KIA in Longmont . Fantastic car and much cheaper than Tesla with the same range and more utility package.
You should two grading methods, one based on current EV performances and a this one you're currently using for a long term evaluation in the future. Thanks again for the content I really appreciate.
Love my newly purchased '19 Niro EV. Didn't even know this existed until we went to the local dealership to test out the PHEV since you can't currently purchase or service a Hyundai Kona EV in WA state (which is interesting since they share the exact same drivetrain and battery).
To add, the ECO mode is great for everything we've used it for so far. I've used the Sport mode on several occasions to jump it off the line and get it to speed to merge onto the freeway, but other than that the ECO is more than enough for daily driving.
I sure hope they release an AWD model down the line, but I'm not really expecting to take mine off the road too much since I have my Wrangler if needed.
The one downside is that it does not come with a spare tire of any kind. Again, not a big deal since it comes with a little compressor and patch kit if needed bundled with the Kia Roadside assistance and AAA I get from my parents I'm not likely to get stranded too long.
Very Good review .... Interesting the the torque steer is so pronounced ..... that would be a deal breaker for me as I detest Torque Steer...... maybe an AWL system would significantly correct for same.
Could slap on some aftermarket wheels. guys who autocross leafs n Bolts are able to manage that with wider wheels/tires and stiffer spring rates
Its bad but I only notice it when I'm punching it from 0.
I have the EV Niro. Since I always drive in eco mode, I almost never feel it. I rarely feel it when I stomp in the pedal.
I own [the step down of this vehicle. I commute 25 miles into Boston, a set of snow tires made this car great. I have owned for 8 months and the only complaint I have is that when you charge outside, in the snow, the charging door builds up with ice, and can make the door very difficult to close. To rectify this, i cover the connector with an old T-shirt.
...... Snow tires take away 55 miles of range
Great job tommy👍
Do the model 3 loveland trial.
Yes please do that asap. I am in the market for one right now 😃
@@rohitkurup6191 If Model 3 fits your needs and budget, Then it is a no-brainer. Just go and order the Dual Motor, Long Range.
@@dagit11 I actually just did so earlier today. One of my cars was totaled (I was rear ended at stoplight) so I had to get something now. I have a Model Y performance also on order so I guess I am going all electric much much sooner than I expected LoL. I installed 2 240v 50amp outlets last week as a part of my solar system and i was thinking both cars would be electric by 2023. Now the only draw back is that I still have to wait 5-7 weeks for the M3 though + my insurance agent told me it costs $600 more per Tesla per year to insure. Ouch.. I still save a bit because I have a gas guzzler but not as much as I thought it would be. Oh well..
Rohit Kurup my coworker just ordered his Model 3 and got it. When he first looked they said it would be 3 weeks. It was actually 5 days.
Beautiful snowy mountains
Tommy, I think you're using the incorrect time for scoring on charging. From 0%, the Niro EV on 50kW takes 75 mins but 50mins on a 100kW charger.
Thanks Anthony, Just double checked: KIA says 80% in 60 mins at 100Kw. That would still score 0 in that category
@@TFLclassics thanks for checking, sorry I was mistaken. Perhaps 10% state of charge would be more appropriate since that would be more likely than 0%? Keep up the good work and I'm looking forward to you guys doing a DCFC session on the Niro EV. Double kudos if you can go 200+mi on a full charge and roll into a fast charger with 0% remaining.
@@TFLclassics But it is ridiculous to measure charging from 0% to 80%. Only a fool will run down the car to 0%, normally you will charge at 10% or a little more.
Ideally you wouldnt let the % go below say 20. Keep it in that sweet spot. How about weighting the charging score by including range added in 10 mins @ a midlevel charge state? Could be interesting.
I probably will never could afford a Tesla (about 2.5 - 3 times the US price here in my country), but I set my eyes on this KIA E-Niro, this is the best EV's other than Tesla. Let's hope this will enter my market.
This is awesome. I just wish you already did the other electric cars
Hello Guys from the TFL team !
Thanks for your videos (I am only watching the ones related to EVs) !
I have a question on this one. You are saying about the regen mode that you are always staying on the one more powerful (most regen). However I have in mind that the more you put regen, the more there is a resistance for the motor to make the car moving... if it is useful in an urban cycle or downhill but that in the uphill way, it is recommended to use the lightest regen mode not to add a resistance to motors.
So in your test, when you are on the uphill phase, why don't you use the lightest mode ?
Thanks in advance for your feedback !
And continue like that for your videos !!!
For that price no wonder it’s sold in only 7 states.
BigBitesR rite what states is it sold in?
@@Dnice3477 The KIA Niro EV is actually sold in 12 states, California, Connecticut, Georgia, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Texas, and Washington. Source: www.motor1.com/reviews/357163/chevrolet-bolt-kia-niro-ev-comparison/ 75% down the page below the picture of the two cars pointing at each other.
Two things to take into consideration: tax credits will reduce the price by at least $7,500 and the fuel and maintenance savings over 5 years of ownership will likely reduce the TCO below that of a comparable gas vehicle.
@@jghall00 Also, being a press-pool car TFL's has almost 10 grand worth of trim options.
@@alterbr33d Yup, I can get Kia Niro EV in my state, but not Hyundai Kona Electric.. Alas. Since Hyundai and Kia are sister companies, I wish Hyundai would sell in the same twelve states that Kia does...
47k!!!! Ommmmg this car was alright until you said that. Wtf
This car would be fantastic... for 30k.
@@billh2294 it would be fantasic for 25 k not for 30 k
It’s 40K after fed rebate. I do Feel better about my Leaf Plus SV with tech and weather for 31K after rebate. The range does look a bit better with the Niro though.
This model starts at 38500 MSRP. With a 7500 rebate it's nearly down to 30k
@@miloe436 no one like base model cars there not as feature full ?
Thanks for the test, amazing how better this car was than the EGolf and the Golf was re charged prior to going up the mountain, clearly this Kia is Much Better!!! Will be interesting to see how the ID3 does when you try it.
The e-golf has half the battery size, if that battery had been in the niro they would have had to do the same extra charge.
I drive with max regen all the time and use the left paddle a lot in stop and go. Yes, it takes some practice, but if this is your daily driver you should be able to fully master smooth one pedal driving within a week. After some more practice you can use the adaptive cruise control even in city driving during rush hour complete with swift lane changes.
Excellent, can't wait to see the towing test.
I have the Niro EV, can't find a tow hitch that will work without sacrificing the aero panel under the car or requiring no modifications to the hitch.
Other notes:
Pulling the regen paddle will slow the vehicle very aggressively and it will come to a stop, but the brake lights don't come on so others can see you slowing down and come to a stop but without brake lights.
The wheels will spin even when going up a steep hill if you floor it with traction control off.
When the dc fast charging starts to throttle, pack up and go, don't wait to get to 80%. Niro EV not supported on EVNotify yet.
"The wheels will spin even when going up a steep hill if you floor it with traction control off."
My hybrid Highlander does that too. Even with TC on. Even with the optional idrive, rear motor. Too much torque to the front wheels too fast when it's punched like that. I've experienced it on steeper, rain slicked freeways when going up hill and on on ramps when I've floored it to gain speed in a short run.
But, my RWD, '69 Z/28 Camaro will do the same thing. Even when the pavement is dry!
The "cure" is not to punch any car to the floor, if all conditions are not conducive to maximum traction. ;-)
What?! $47k?! I’m liking electric cars, but not that much.
Taka Yama Bear in mind that with an electric, you're spending your money up front rather than bleeding money the whole time you own it. How many times per week are you pumping in $50 or more of gas into the tank? How much does an oil change cost every 5,000 miles times how many miles you own it? And what about the more expensive service appointments you have to do to maintain a gas car? What does all of that expense add up to at the time you would normally sell your car? Most people don't track those expenses as part of their car's initial purchase price, but that's exactly what's happening with an electric car, because they don't have all of those expenses.
Though I am with you in being a little shocked by that price here.
The $47K is for the premium trim, which includes the navigation system and possibly a sliding sun roof. I like sun roofs a lot, but decided to go with the entry level trim because it was $5K cheaper, so closer to $41K + T&L in WA state. With Car Play or Android Auto you can get the nav functionality and I'm sure there are apps that tell you where your next charge is, but I don't need the range circle functionality. I saved $10K on taxes so instead of a $45K car, it turns into more like a $30K car. Wish it had heated seats, but oh well, as they have shown the creature comforts do take a toll on your range. And at my price point I still got the cold weather package which seems pretty important for an EV running in cold climates a lot.
I got mine for 38500 so $31000 after rebate. Tommy drove the premium trim, which I agree is overpriced. You aren't losing much with the lower trim.
@@jmmaddison
But, that's true in most cars, EV or otherwise. The premium trim levels is how auto manufacturers and dealers boost their gross margins. It's how auto sales people boost their commissions.
It's also how consumers lose more on resales and trade ins. The price differential between base and premium after three years is not nearly what it is on a new car purchase.
It should be $35K at most..throw in AWD, luxury interior, better audio, head, moon roof then maybe.
i have the conventional Niro Hybrid without the charging capability. The mileage is superb (70 mp gallon in the summer; much less in the winter). The vehicle was $30 K which is closer to acceptable and it's a very nice car to drive without having to worry about the range. Would never pay the higher price for the all electric period. When the lease is up, it will go back as years down the line, everything will be improved over this model.
A heat pump is basically an AC unit working in reverse. A heat pump moves heat. It grabs heat from outside air and brings it inside. I would assume its similar in operation as a minisplit unit one might see in a apt/house (and all over Asia/Europe). I'm surprised Tesla hasn't moved to a heat pump..i think the leaf/some VWs/this all use them.
Time for a leader board.
Beautiful scenery. Wet and dull in the UK, jealous.
Robert Smith time to move
what KWh chargers are you using for the scale? for that 5min charge you'll need a 350+kwh input.....so for the 100kwh max you get on the e-niro thats pretty standard charge rate.
I like the idea of EVs and will probably get one as my next car.... But my diesel still beats the pants off them. I have 500 average and recharge in under 5 mins to full charge. My charge last me 2 weeks and cost around 30 to 36 dollars. I also am not scared to run heat or ac. About to be 40k miles on her so, I have time to wait for EVs to get better and charging stations to appear in real America not just cities in CA.
I've found losing charging speed on trips is a minor inconvenience (you tend to charge during rest stop time). I've yet to see a diesel car that will refill itself in your driveway, or refill itself when it drives downhill, in my opinion that's more than enough added convenience to offset the few negatives; not to mention the speed, ride quality and insane energy efficiency. Honestly, give it another 5-10 years, batteries/motors keep improving, and economy of scale is going to have an incredible effect on electric cars in the next decade. You'll definitely find the car for you then, no point in settling if you've got a perfectly good car now and can wait for better EVs.
Nice to see more EVs. Nothing has blown up my skirt yet, but sooner or later the right combo and I'll bite.
VW id.3
@@AOTanoos22 Having sold VWs for 5 long years, I'll wait and see.
Not to question your preferred pronouns but based on your name (Dean) , don't you mean kilt ?
@@stanw909 Kilt, shorts or whatever.
Up through Estes Park is a nice drive too.
Rule one of EV driving is plan your trips and forget range anxiety and enjoy your driving. The score card is a totally unrealistic set of metrics with too high a range set parameters with in 15 years will be totally meaningless for what went before. In the UK the e-Niro is 12 to 15% cheaper than a single motor model 3, and they are completely different vehicles. Most UK families would opt for the e-Niro over the Tesla for practicality - and them there is the Kia 7 year warranty, eat your heart out Tesla - people buy for that reason!
On the most aggressive regeneration setting, do the brake lights come on when slowing?
Woodstock Dave Yes, they do in every mass produced EV. It might vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, but it seems to trigger at about where slowing down by downshifting would get you. They are designed to be just like ordinary cars to other traffic.
you need another category, can I reverse into the garage with good rear view and not bump into the garage door. Best to construct an garage mockup with cardboard so when you cannot make it you won't damage the test car .
Kia's website quotes a base price of $38,500 for the Niro EV without the test car's luxo trim options, that being said you're still looking at an interior carried over from a sub-$25k Niro hybrid.
You guys are going to have to find a way to account for outdoor temperature if you’re going to use this as a comparison test. Colder temperatures lower efficiency, which lowers range. If you’re not accounting for the difference or testing everything at a similar temperature, then it’s not an accurate comparison. Maybe limit these runs to days when the temperature’s are in the 60’s or 70’s in Boulder.
I have one of these and the niro ev does have some downsides, but i feel like its a great car. The regenerative breaking can be a little rough but ive gotten good enough that its very smooth
You didn’t mention auto-regen mode. Hold down the right paddle shifter to turn it on.
Excellent review! I would also show the score beside the Tesla. Given seems to be the current benchmark as well. Show all categories including the cost out the door.
Love it !
I'm pretty harsh on EVs (especially Tesla) but this seems to be a vary good vehicle. Parts will be readily available even for an accident as well as not having to deal will the snobbiness of dealerships. If they can keep a competitive price against Tesla and others it will stand out.
Why would you think Kia dealers are not snobby? AFAI have ever been able to tell, all auto dealerships are "snobby" in the sense that they are an oligopoly and know they can lord one over on us.
Just one thing about the autonomous driving score. As far as I know, level one means autonomy either in the forward or side direction; level two, means autonomy going forward and keeping the lane; levels 3, 4 and 5 are of course, more advanced. Shouldn’t the Kia Niro have scored 12 points instead?
It would be nice to see the EV test numbers compared at the end of each video so we have a sense of reference as to each vehicles score. Similar to Top Gear time laps, or Doug DeMuro's system.
I'd like to see all the car scores you've rated listed at the end of each video. (I know it's no very many yet.)
I like this new part to your channel. I wonder if your charging scale is right though. Time to 80% isn’t very meaningful. Time to charge 100miles from x (miles out percentage) would be more useful. Just because you don’t just want charge rate but also efficiency and battery size. Anyway look forward to more EV testing :)
Lovely test. I drive the Niro for almost 1 year now and I find it a very practicle car (not very sexy). The reason I bought this one in stead of a Tesla Model 3 is the space. I have 2 young kids. I am a tech lover so the Tesla is very appealing to me but I have to be practical :-) . Maybe it is nice to take the space into account also...
They put a 70kwh battery (64 usable) in this Kia. It is large enough to fit a rear facing car seat behind a 6ft driver or passenger, and it has adequate boot/trunk space for a family. It has a heat pump. In real world it is going to have a far better range than a model 3 sr+ and be competitive with a model 3 LR in cold weather. If you are driving above 70mph it will not do as well due to frumpy shape. The Soul and the Kona are too small to fit the rear facing car seat behind a 6ft driver and the boots/trunks are not as big.
Obviously I would prefer a model 3. From a practical standpoint this car could be a great fit for some families, especially as the heat pump means the car does not loose much range in winter. Kia did a great job putting such a large battery in this car.
But I do not care. I will buy a fully loaded Kia Niro EV because I love the frumpy AND beautiful shape.
I'd like to see the Tesla Model 3 SR+ test. Seems to me that there is no way this Niro is going to beat the Tesla in "real world driving" and for the price of this Niro, you're only about a thousand dollars off a dual motor - all wheel drive, long range Model 3.
@@billh2294 BUT I DO NOT CARE. I WILL BUY A FULLY LOADED 2020 KIA NIRO EV ANYWAY.
@@RichardJoashTan Why ???
@@billh2294
Alex and Autos already compared, the Niro has longer legs and a larger battery.
insideevs.com/reviews/350496/video-tesla-kia-nissan-budget-ev-comparo/
Your scoring system is a good indicator of consumer expectations. Longer range and faster charging are essential for general
consumer acceptance. Pricing will also be a big indicator.
I think you need a sliding scale based on the battery start / battery end, to figure out how many kilowatts were consumed for the trip total, with a modulator value for the temperature outside. It is super hard to compare apples to apples when it comes to range. It would be nice to know how efficient the car is given the same number of kWh (again taking temperature into consideration).
That isn't what a heat pump does. Heat pumps concentrate heat in the outside air and bring it in to the car. They are more efficient than resistive heaters as long as temperatures aren't too low.
Do you have a comparison of how other EVs did in the test and what the score was?
That’s a really impressive range result. The Niro and Kona EV could be really awesome cars if they offered them with an AWD variant with some additional power, nicer interior and higher end features. I would consider one as a second car to my Model 3 Performance.
What does the Model S, 3 & X score?
I think the car in this challenge did really well . I can’t see any other car matching it’s range and efficiency at the moment this side of a Tesla witch will cost a lot more money. The face lifted version has the bigger screen for the infotainment system as well as the telematics system. A side note the scenery is stunning.
Tesla Model 3 SR+ starts at $39,990
What did the tesla score that was following you?
Gas-Electric Hybrids are still the best for most people since most people don't live in a house with a driveway where they can plug in. Just to give you an idea what the real world is like, EV's are great for people living in urban areas where population density is high. But the problem is that in these areas, real-estate prices are VERY HIGH so most people can't afford to own houses with private driveways. I was visiting Baltimore last Xmas, and I saw many more Prius-es than EV's. EV's are nothing but toys right now, it's far far less practical than gas-electric hybrids.
You are absolutely correct. Current BEV's simply don't offer the practicality and convenience of today's ICEV's. At least with a PHEV, you can enjoy the best of both worlds without compromise or completely re-ordering your life around a car. You get the benefit of around-town, commuter-driving on all-electric and long-distance weekend travels without worry by virtue of the secondary engine.
@@jaroessa294 Exactly, I have a Prius and if I needed extra range beyond 500 miles, all I had to do is put gas into the canisters and bring them with me. Can't do that with an EV.
@@shermanleung5839
What's "best", ICE, EV, hybrid, or PHEV, depends on one's needs and uses. And, all factors are dynamic and will change over time.
You can put gas into canisters and bring them with you to extend range on any gas fueled vehicle. I've certainly done so on my Scout when going into the rough country. And, do so on my motorcycle because of it's capacity limited range as built (160 to 200 miles)
But, there is added danger in carrying gasoline canisters inside a vehicle or in the trunk due to leakage, fumes, volatility, etc. And, I'm pretty sure it's been deemed illegal in many states for those reasons. Plus, you have to fill those canisters up which is time consuming and challenging.
The better range option is a larger fuel tank. Or a secondary one. On an ICE (gasoline tank) or even on an EV (battery).
BTW, I have a 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid and have found it to be "the best" for us for many years. It allows for pretty decent mileage (for its time) in an SUV larger enough to carry 4 people in comfort, haul items for suburban living and importantly, reliability. It isn't going to be replaced anytime soon short of need for major repair or major damage. But, I'd sell like an EV as a second vehicle for daily use and reserve the HH for when we need it's capacity and functionality.
@@tharais "all factors are dynamic and will change over time"
There are a few factors going to stay pretty much the same. When population density is high, so is the real-estate price. And this will make it difficult for people to own EV's for practical reasons. If EV's were that great, you would have seen more of them in cities instead of hybrids.
"You can put gas into canisters and bring them with you to extend range on any gas fueled vehicle. "
Yeah, but my Prius can get 55mpg on average. And I'm talking about long-term average (7 years).
"But, there is added danger in carrying gasoline canisters inside a vehicle or in the trunk due to leakage, fumes, volatility, etc."
There is also added danger in using lithium batteries. They can explode and you can die in the car.
" But, I'd sell like an EV as a second vehicle for daily use and reserve the HH for when we need it's capacity and functionality."
I already said EV's are great for people who live in urban areas. However, I wouldn't buy an EV's if I lived in a place where I never encounter traffic jams.
Cold weather package should include Winter Tires, and AWD would be a nice touch
Unless you live in Antarctica, it would be silly for the car to come with winter tires.
@@xjinit If you live anywhere where it snows winter tires are a must. Do some research on braking distances with and without snow tires, and handling. Here in Montreal winter tires are mandatory Dec.-March
@@johnnyv5995 My point exactly, what then do you do before December and after March? Burn them up in summer?
@@xjinit you put summer tires on in the summer, genius.
@@solidone went over your head I guess...
I'm confused at 16:55 he says he put it in highest regen mode then bitches about the regen being too aggressive.🤔🤔🤔🤔 Maybe it'll be smoother on a lower setting or if its jerky in all regen modes let us know.
I think you should add build quality to all your EV reviews, Hyundai and Kia have excellent build quality these days. You have to remember too both the Niro and Kona are not exclusive EV platforms they have had the huge batteries bolted onto the bottom of both vehicles because there was no other place to put them, plus this helps with centre of gravity and keeping the vehicle grounded more to the road. When Hyundai and Kia start using their dedicated EV platform they announced recently watch out all EV manufacturers.
I'll wait for the model "Y"!
sequi- tur agreed. If initial pricing stays the same you can have a model Y long range for the same price. Far better value in my opinion.