I do definitely believe the movie is filling out SOME kind of blanks for us. What "blanks" those were hasn't been super clear, but I always thought there was something about Vanessa and William's relationship in the movie that we should be applying to the games. I do like the idea you talked about though, it makes Michael a MUCH more potentially interesting character imo
@@novustalks7525No it makes lots of sense, from him killing his brother on accident to being guilted, manipulated, and tortured essentially by his father. Then obviously following his orders, until the turning point which I think is sister location? I don’t know how to word it but him turning on his mentally and possibly physically abusive father once he is able to makes lots of sense!
Top three funniest parts of this video: 1. My sister and I finished writing and recording our very first video essay, on the FNAF timeline, riiight before you started posting these timeline discussions lol. 2. We had the Vanessa=Mike Accomplice realization at the end of our writing process so seeing you have the same reaction we did was GOLD. 3. The Family Guy joke because. Me and my sisters have the greatest time making jokes about Spring Bonnie replacing a random kid’s dad and I mentioned I was disappointed the graphic novel never gave us an illustration of him laying on the bed watching TV. After speculating for a lot of time on what would be funniest for him to be watching on that, we settled on “Family Guy funny moments.”
@@RyeToast I have sent my friends the graphic novel image of Oswald finding Spring Bonnie at the dinner table out of context and their reactions are always glorious
Im so glad someone is finally talking about the movie's family dynamics! its been something that has taken up my brain since the movie came out! The idea that Vanessa and Micheal are parallel to each other shows us exactly the kind of father Willam was. He blamed vanessa for 'the mess she made' and while it could be describing her letting Michael know too much, it could also be a jab at Vanessa for starting all of the events before that point. The Michael in the film was a great way to see how he behaves, hes obsessive, anxious and constantly haunted by guilt which is his main motivator for staying at Freddy's after the first night. His obsession with dream theory may be a callback to FNAF 4 since both movie micheal and game michael have a history of repeating dreams. I also think thats why Glitchtrap held on so tightly to Vannessa. Willaim had someone else doing most of the work for him like some kind of henchmen so Vanessa the 'reluctant follower' is a stand in for michael and his role despite vanny having more of an elizabeth look and attitude. Just like michael she broke out of his manipulative control and is now doing whatever she has to in order to stop him like how Micheal is theorized to be doing throughout the games. Its History repeating itself
I know it hasn’t been talked about but I have this strange head cannon that circus baby’s pizza world didn’t have the fun times we know, but early non-kidnappy versions, but when Elizabeth gets killed due to a real mechanical fault in baby’s ice cream function, the franchise closed down and we’re put into storage in the bunker, where afton then had the chance to experiment and rebound them to be the dangerous creations they came to be. I know this has no real basis, but it’s an interesting thought that would allow for them to be earlier in the time line without technology being as stranger as the fun times would make it. The idea of puppet and balloon boy being some of these original animatronics would have meant that the early fun times would have been closer in function and appearance to the toy animatronics which is believable to me.
YES I was just thinking this, especially because the way that circus baby is portrayed to give ice cream is so different between the sister location mini-game (sets it down then a weird arm materializes) vs. the on in HW2 (the arm extends, gives you the ice cream, then retracts extremely fast). Maybe Elizabeth took too long to grab the ice cream and got pulled in? Then later on the funtimes could be altered to snatch children on purpose, rather than by accident...
Easily my favorite episode of the podcast. It's going to be hard to top. It was awesome hearing you talk your self into 2 theories along with the origin of RyeToast and your path towards YouTubing full time.
Whether William was obsessed with immortality from the get-go or not doesn't really matter. He could have been obsessed, sure, but he would have no idea where to start. As has been reiterated multiple times: William needs to know about remnant before he can even begin to start studying its effects of anchoring a soul to Earth. That's the only thing he tries in this franchise, and if he didn't see hauntings before that, it would have never even been on his radar.
@@PandoricaLost mr hippos line of looking too far into things. sometimes, people *are* just plain evil, thats the only explanation there is, will ever be, and the only one that would give any closure, *for those types of people.* youll drive yourself crazy looking for another reason. irs very plausible this is the case with afton. why does he have to have some kind of "better" driving force, like wanting to experiment with remnant? maybe he was just plain evil, then sees the proof of hauntings, and then, starts pursuing remnant. this is how ive always interpreted it at least
27:53 i think he tampering with the AI from the animatronics in custom night means that he's trying to put to rest the souls, but he's caught and fired by a fazbear employee
What if "Save them / You can't" takes place BEFORE "Give Gifts, Give Life"? Remember the in-between night cutscenes were you see POV as Freddie on stage. Then, what is the cutscene "Save them / You can't"? It's that Freddy following the puppet around; looking at the scattered bodies... Or are they the souls lying around where they were each killed? The same "body" shapes are used for "Give Gifts / Give Life", inferring that the repeat use of these objects means they should be associated as the same thing or highly similar. "Save them" is a statement separate from "You can't". Freddy can't save them... But the Puppet can.
To the point of CC possessing GF not making sense: after revisiting that information my thought process was always that CC’s agony was what possessed GF, but actual CC did not possess it after death. That’s why GF is violent, because it’s Vengeful Spirit AND Crying Child’s agony, and the agony is what reaches out to Mike to say “it’s me.” If you combine that with your theory, it’s possible that Charlotte senses that GF had his agony within it and when they couldn’t find his body they put him within it. Also, my running theory on William’s motive for Charlotte’s death was always that Crying Child was bitten by an animatronic Henry helped to create, because the Fredbear that killed CC had the same hinged jaw that was a staple of Henry’s. ALSO, as for how Michael could be dead during FNAF 1 and the animatronics be possessed, I’ve always liked the split souls theory but slightly modified, where the souls do go to Ennard but some of the agony remains in the original animatronics.
Sort of a random thought, the crying childs bite could have been public, but Afton brought him back to the bunker where he could set up a makeshift hospital to try to save him. It could explain why the crying child would be confused about him being dead. His bite was public but his death was private, at Aftons home, and no one else has found his body because he was buried in the woods without anyone knowing except for William, Michael and possibly(probably if she left her husband) Mrs Afton. If William was determined to bring back the crying child it isn't out of the realm of possibility that he would lie to everyone outside of the family and say "oh yes my youngest son is still in a coma, but we are taking care of him at home and hopeful for a full recovery" while working on how to bring someone back to life. Hell the experiments he would do to try to bring the crying child back could be why Mrs. Afton leaves him, but there's no evidence for that really.
I think you're right that there isn't solid evidence but it makes total sense as speculation. Explains why Michael broke out of his room to go to the dirt mound (Later That Night) to mourn the brother he has to pretend in public is still alive.
@@qryptid it makes sense as headcannon and fits into the story, as convoluted as it currently is, the biggest stretch in my opinion is this being the reason why Mrs. Afton left William. All we know in regards to that is that she's not mentioned and left. But I could easily see the murders of children and possibly adults being too much and making her leave but the hope of her son being brought back kept her from blowing the whistle on what he was doing
Glitchtrap, William or not, threatens game vanessa similarly in the emails. She "orders herself" flowers for 'her funeral' and thumbscrews. Oh, things are cooking :V
For the "Elizabeth first" theory, the question isn't 'Why would William Afton create the Funtimes if he hadn't killed someone yet?' The real question is 'Was Circus Baby actually made to murder?' Here is the evidence that Circus Baby is much older than the other Funtimes and wasn't built to kill/kidnap children. 1. Her coloring is completely different from the Funtimes. All the other Funtime animatronics are pastel colors: light pinks, pale purples, and whites. Baby's colors are deep reds and oranges. These are more saturated colors -- more similar to Balloon Boy, Little Jim, etc. 2. Circus Baby's blueprints are different from the other Funtimes. She doesn't have any kidnapping technology listed. We often say she had to have been built to kidnap based on the comments to Afton and "the claw." But that's not necessarily the case. The features the investors were concerned about could have been her clearly more advanced AI, sound illusion technology, split face, 7 ft tall height or something else. Whatever it was, we know that the investors allowed Baby's Pizza World to move forward. If it was kidnapping tech, I would hope they would have pulled out of the project. At the very least, if Baby were made to kidnap or kill, Afton went from hiding it on the blueprints to making it very obvious. This alone shows that there was some big change between the construction of Baby and the other Funtimes. As for the "claw," we know from Security Breach that they still build non-kidnapping animatronics with food dispensers in their torsos (Glam rock Freddy). Baby killing Elizabeth could have been a glitch of the ice cream function. Maybe the investors knew that the ice cream dispenser was glitchy and that was the feature they were concerned about. 3. Baby's dialogue is different from the other Funtimes. She is much more advanced, self-aware and cunning. Her voice lines aren't recorded or repeated like the other Funtimes. It's not just because of Elizabeth. Every animatronic had some dead kid inside them. Plus, her self-awareness seems to have begun before Elizabeth's death. Her monologue about being on stage happens before she 'lost control of herself.' There's something fundamentally different about Circus Baby that we aren't taking into consideration that might have started this whole cycle with William Afton.
I sort of mentally checked out of the franchise when it went from "serial killer and possessed animatronics" to "hyperintelligent sentient ai in the 80s and magic ghost metal"
Have you considered that, perhaps the hatches in the funtimes originally weren't for kidnapping but for safety? and circus babies stomach hatch malfunctioned?, i could easily see them as some natural disaster or dangerous situation safe room feature
I do occasionally consider the possibility that Elizabeth was the oldest child and killed accidentally first (but the childnapping protocol was intentional). Mike was too little too understand and thus is never scared of the animatronics, tormenting his younger brother who has seen Something that makes him terrified of the animatronics. Like William just gets So Hype and makes the height of tech, something so futuristic that he then Downgrades after Elizabeth dies. Like, maybe its Babylock, missing child incident (that CC witnesses maybe? Or maybe the aftermath), Charlie cuz William is just jealous Henry's daughter is alive when his isn't, Then CC (cuz his house has an empty girls bedroom that could be a shrine to beloved daughter)
I'm just saying this as "no way it's true but wouldn't it be funny" if the crying child dies, William lives his life and becomes a robotic genius, goes through a time travelling ballpit with the fun times to prevent the accident, but they end up killing Elizabeth and that's why she doesn't show up in FNAF 4. It's crazy, it's a joke, but never say never when it comes to this franchise XD
I definitely agree that Movie Vanessa = Games Mike. William refers to the haunting of Freddy’s and killing Mike and Abby as "the mess you made" which feels relevant to Foxybro Mike.
I don’t know who to phrase this the right way, but I think the community has to decide whether are not good storytelling matters when forming a timeline. There if there is an order of events that makes sense even if it is narratively unsatisfying it is probably right. I think we can give Scott much much credit as an author.
I feel the Funtime Foxy toy in the girl's room in FNaF 4 is something people don't pay enough heed to when it comes to the timeline, especially when Sister Location shows us there was a spring lock suit at Pizza World and that it was hooked up to the same power system as Fredbear's.
With the death order in HW2 I see two possibilities, either the MCI is first and fallfest is the inciting incident, or the crying child is the first incident but he doesn’t die until later, the first actual death is chica, but the crying child bite was the incident that caused William to snap (still doesn’t fully explain why he kills Charlie though, I hope we get more information about that with fallfest)
Hearing Rye go through the timeline of this channel made me realize how long I've been watching you, I remember seeing that timeline video and subscribing after that. Seeing how much your channel has grown since then makes me so happy
I personally think that 1: There IS a prerequisite for CCs death! The rumors! We know from both the Fredbear plush and one of the kids that there are already rumors of dead around the franchise. This requires SOMETHING to have happened by that point. 2: The movie hints at the order of the Afton family deaths. First, Garret dies in a wooded area; Michael is young and Abby is not present. Then, Abby is born, and the family falls apart. Michael has to take care of Abby and forms a troubled relationship. Michael remembers Garret, but Abby doesn't. This relationship leads to Abby being put in danger at the hands of the animatronics. The only character in the game timeline that dies in a wooded area is Elizabeth. CC never acknowledges Elizabeth's existence, so he may not have been born or was too young to remember her when she died. Michael forms a troubled relationship with CC due to his fears of the franchise and constant need for care and attention. This causes Michael to get CC hurt at the hands of the animatronics. 3. The Silver Eyes also paints William as psychotic, possibly due to mental damage from a springlock failure. We KNOW that there was an incident involving "multiple, simultaneous springlock failures" from the FNaF3 tapes. He may not have needed a reason for the MCI... Charlotte's death could also have been just the result of his issues with Henry and the happenstance of seeing her locked out of Freddy's. She could've also been killed as "revenge" for Elizabeth's death in William's mind. This all suggests, to me, the order of deaths is: MCI, Elizabeth, Charlotte, and then CC. Take this with a Popcorn bucket's worthlof salt though!
William Afton needs more information. When the series first started, it makes sense. There are two types of antagonists: a villain, and a monster. At the start, "purple guy" was a monster. And monsters work best the less you know about them. A great monster is one you never see - think Jaws, or Cloverfield. Those were so effective partly because you never see the monster until the very end. The less you know, the more your imagination has to fill in, and that is going to make them the scariest thing you could think of. But we're past the days of purple guy. William Afton is no longer a monster. He's a villain. And a villain works best the MORE you know. The best villains are exactly like everyone else you know, except for that one thing. It's the close knit family that there's something just a little off, who turn out to be cannibals. It's the next door neighbor who always says hi, and brings over fresh baked cookies, and has a collection of severed body parts in their basement. FNAF has turned Afton from a monster into a villain, but they're still treating him like a monster. And that doesn't work any more. Afton isn't scary as an antagonist anymore because we know just enough about him to know that he's just a guy. But not enough to make him fall into that "uncanny valley" where he's normal enough to be relatable, except for that one thing. Now every time the games bring him back, I just have to groan. Because he's no longer interesting as an antagonist. At this point, they have two options. Option one, move away from Afton. Future games should make it clear - Afton is no more. The use of the mimic is pretty effective. And topical, with AI as monster being relevant to issues today. Option two is to go back and show us Afton's origin. It seems like they're considering this, with the references to Fall Fest. But they can't be as mysterious as they have been. Fall Fest needs to give us definitive answers if they want to keep using Afton. They need to humanize the monster they've created by showing us who he really is, and the inciting incident that started him on his path to becoming "purple guy".
Regarding William's motivations, I'll offer my altered opinion on the subject based on my fallfest theory: (Conjecture) Fallfest was being run by Mrs. Afton’s family (before she was an Afton, so I refer to her as Clara for convenience) for generations, possibly since the 1930’s with the Fredbear singing show, with her also doing ballet tight-rope performances (assuming she's based on Ballora). Henry Emily was working as an engineer for the carnival attractions, likely creating Carny and Mystic Hippo, alongside the musical melodies and Fazband. William Afton was a British man who immigrated to the US to pursue the entertainment industry (hence why all his children grew up with British accents). He would help Henry create the characters of the musical melodies, mascot outfits, pring Bonnie and Fredbear, and the Fazbear characters (who we see eventually play at Fallfest 1983 according to the HW2 crane game). Which comes to Carnival Nurse. It’s interesting that she is... well, a carnival nurse, in the Pizzeria Simulator location. In a game mode that has carnival themed characters (Lefty is just reskinned Carnie, Pig Patch is a musical melody member of the Carnival, and Scrapbaby is a clown, and we know that William Afton built two businesses based on circuses). [Side note: FuhNaff pointed out that the Silver Eyes novels had mentioned William and Henry having books on the Circus] It’s also interesting that we don’t actually know what William Afton was doing in the UK before he moved to the US. I say he came to the US because he wanted to enter the entertainment industry… but what if that wasn’t what he was doing before? Gibi postulates that William Afton only thought about the mysteries of the human body after studying yoga gurus that were mentioned in FNAF 1 in hidden sounds, which is where he learned about the idea of combining metal and flesh for remnant. I don’t disagree… but I think William has ALWAYS been interested in the human body. What if he was a medical professional in the Uk and used his talents here? Because, beyond working as a Mascot performer and businessman with Henry and Clara, William could possibly have been a nurse or doctor AT the Fallfest Carnival. It makes a certain amount of sense for how he became a genius with experimenting on children, not just in stuffing them into suits, but in creating technology that targets their minds (nightmare experiments) and in trying to recreate human physiology (Sister Location faces we see in the main room). We always assumed his experiments started with his own kids, but what if he actually took an interest in the kids whom Helpy represents? The injured ones who were sent to his medical tent. The carnival nurse voice lines are very interesting, because they are all easy ways for William to pick up unsuspecting children to experiment on. What is even more damning is that these injured children actually stop being “injured” at some point: general neglect, parental neglect, and “unclassified trauma”. What does THAT mean? Unclassified trauma??? What I think it means is that William slowly went from treating injured children to grabbing and sedating any child who was vulnerable with the 1970’s equivalent of the gas mask we see in Help Wanted 2, possibly just outright grabbing a kid who was alone in the case of “unclassified trauma”. Possibly as his Spring Bonnie mascot character… But why? I don't believe it was to murder them. There has never been any mention of murders or disappearances at Fallfest. The only real notoriety seems to be that in 1983, the Fallfest Carnival burned down (which I believe may have been Mrs. Afton's doing, possibly by accident, based on Clara from Immortal and the Restless + the fire seeming to start from the barn in HW2 when you zoom out of the carousel). No, what I believe is that William was using these children for something that would haunt (pun intended) the franchise for decades to come: Human Emotion and Reality. We know from the Silver Eyes Novels and the Tales from the Pizzaplex Novels that each iteration of William Afton has a focus on messing with the mental faculties of human beings. The Silver Eyes has the Sound Illusion Discs, devices built to use sound to mess with the information that the human brain receives. Tales from the Pizzaplex has Nightmare Gas, some kind of gaseous concoction that creates terrifying illusions that alter the appearance of not only one's surroundings, but their own body as well. Even the recent Steelwool games has a focus on the VR/AR (possibly spirit world) reality network, where phones and VR/AR masks can allow people to see a fake reality (or possibly what it truly looks like under the surface). And while it's might not directly be William's creation - though HW1 DLC seems to have Vanessa conversing with William/Mimic/Glitchtrap/All of the above - it is most certainly a Fazbear creation, and we know they like to crib things from Henry and William's designs (see: stomach hatches and Nightmarionette). And we know from the original Scotts games that Micheal Afton (and possibly the Crying Child) were forced to endure Nightmare Experiments from William himself. Alright, so William was always some evil asshole who was obsessed with fear and tormenting children? Well, no. Not the fear part at least. I often think back to the Fredbear suit telling William in a mocking tone about, 'There was more fantasy and fun where I came from!', which reminded me of the Fazbear company slogan: 'Where fantasy and fun, come to life!' I do think that William as a serial killer wanted to bring the fantasy aspect to life, but William the performer? Someone who wanted his family and friends to thrive in the business world? I believe that William Afton was using these children - injured and not - as a means of trying to figure out how to artificially create happiness. If he could harness Fun and make it so that every child was a return, then he would conquer the entertainment industry. Insane? Absolutely. In character? Probably! William Afton likely had some inspiration of Diary of a Yogi - which I mentioned in part 2 of the theory - and could have believed in the concept of actual 'life-force', which means that emotion (Fun and later Fear... or Agony) was a manipulatable source he could access. It's even possible that while the above - him wanting to pull a Monster Inc on Fun to build up the Fazbear business - isn't completely correct... I do think it's true that he would use these "injured" children to study life-force in order to bring back the Crying Child. The same child that died in the same year of Fallfest 1983, the same year that the Carnival Burned down, just like Clara burned down Vlad's house. The same Carnival that had IT'S ME hidden inside the Barn, almost as if a spirit was gaining strength and wanting to be found... and everything went wrong.
EXCUSE ME???? Look, despite this being my SpIn, I have a very ... Nebulous idea of the timeline. There's SO MUCH information everywhere and I'm pretty happy to just go huh that sounds valid to most theories I hear. But THIS ONE. Look, the application of the info we have so far is difficult, and we can't honestly be sure about the accuracy of anything yet, esp to do with fallfest, but this? This is a STORY I want to see. Tbh it has very....almost SCP vibes for William? And I LOVE that. And I think the conjectures are valid! But this is what I wanna seeeee!!!
26:35 Rye's realization to the parallelism between the Afton family dynamics in the books and movies is so funny 😭 I believe there has been a lot of speculation with Mike and Vanessa and their respective dads, and of course probably why Vanessa and Gregory were chosen by the Glitchtrap virus to do its bidding. I think it's really interesting why in both the books and the movie, William is known to have one daughter, but never any sons, and that one daughter has always been a parallel to Elizabeth. I always thought that it was to flesh out her character more and to understand why she did the things she did both when she was human and then as a robot: to please her dad. And that same logic applies to Michael too.
Your story speaks to me on so many levels. 2 kids with higher needs as a single parent. I’ve been trying to get a few games developed with a small team but hell it’s a challenge handling everything. Keep up the awesome work!
You know, hearing you talk about how you got started on this channel... Dang, I think I've been there since almost the beginning if not from it. I remember hearing you talk about bits of this stuff here and there. Has it really been *that* long? You've come so far in terms of writing and editing quality; I hope you are proud of how much you've grown! (that is not a backhanded insult, it is a true compliment; it is a good thing to acknowledge progress even as we recognise we always have more to learn.)
I came up with a "logical" order of deaths based establishing William's motive: 1) Bite of 83: Fredbear kills the CC. This was an accident with no supernatural cause. William (security guard) now hates Michael and Henry. 2) Midnight Motorist/Give Cake to the Children: Afton revenge kills Henry's daughter. The footprints outside the house are from possessed and confused Fredbear/CC trying to come home. 3) MCI: Afton is symbolically recreating his son's death by stuffing children into animatronics.
Several things happen that we have VERY little info about. Between 2) and 4) Afton realizes CC is possessing Fredbear and becomes obsessed with bringing him back. YENDO and Fredbear springlock suit in SL? 4) "Afton Robotics" creates the Funtimes to collect more Remnant. Funtimes have parts and/or Remnant taken from the MCI Withereds. 5) Circus Baby kills Elizabeth. Irony! 6) 1987 The Funtimes can't collect Remnant so William commits DCI and gets caught.
I’ve always believed that Eli’s death was a complete animatronic malfunction, no “it was all planned” but just a true accident and the funtimes were “repurposed” for remnant later down the road since Circus Baby’s Rental is still renting out the animatronics.
Most the Fall Fest minigames in HW2 end with everything being lit on fire. In HW1 the maze minigame has Jacko Foxy. This makes me think that an animatronic at the fest caught fire (Represented by Foxy) which spread throughout the entire fest
8:25 with the dream communication and haunting this also appears in the movie. With the missing children talking to Mike and giving Abby memories. Which leads me to say the movie probably has more evidence like this and we have to start looking at it like we look at the books. It's not a 1:1 telling of the story, but it has clues that we can use to explain things that happen in the game timeline
Michael following his dad's orders (willingly or not) would certainly also explain why the MCI kids were never found because they were hidden in the animatronics, but when the Withereds were being used for parts, no one seems to have asked "Hey. Were there supposed to be bodies in here?"
u bring up an interesting point about CC going into a coma before he dies, because this means while we know when the bite itself happens, we don't necessarily know when he actually dies. i dont know how plausible/possible this is but it could be that CC being bitten and Elizabeth's death happen pretty close to each other, but with Charlotte's death in between? -CC gets chomped while Circus Babys is in development -in a fit of rage, Afton murders Charlotte and realizes possession is possible -Afton modifies the already mostly finished funtime animatronics for experiments (which explains why he'd tell his beloved daughter that he built baby for her, she wasnt initially intended to be a murder bot) -Elizabeth then gets Baby'd -CC dies, at which point afton tells CC he'll "put him back together" -THEN the MCI happens to try to bring CC back
I really appreciate this format for Fnaf. Keep this series going. Everyone post theory videos but the podcast format is like real time theory crafting. Organic.
This was the best episode so far! Always fun to convince yourself of a theory 😅 Also neat learning more about your background and how you got here. Keep up the great work!
15:10 perhaps Circus Baby and the Funtimes were originally the ones intended to capture Charlotte (For whichever reason he wanted to do that), and when that plan backfired, he proceeded to do it himself?
Idk if you spoke about this later in the vid but that thing with the memories of the dead children could relate to the movie - as the animatronics didn’t know what happened until they were told by [Cassidy] - as well as help wanted 2 with the collection of literal “memories”
i feel you on the "bullies not having good nicknames to make fun of you with" thing lol when i was in high school it was mentioned to me that someone people called me tiptoe behind my back (im a toe walker) and i was just like??? that's adorable what how is that a mean nickname fgkhflkldh
I’ve been working on a theory that both William and Henry were sociopathic child murderers Part of it is that the Fall Fest fire which destroyed so many of their animatronics was started by the Missing Children Incident kids, Charlie and Michael The middle of this video helped me work out a few more kinks
It would makes some sense by the evidence that henry didn't do anything until his daughter was a victim show how one sided Henry's sympathy is to the children .
I like the idea that the FNAF movie is the real story that the indie games are based around, so taking place in the games universe like SB, RUIN, etc. but disconnected from the original game series. Not sold on this idea but I'm open to it depending on how the future movies go. (I also like the idea that all the Fazbear Frights and TFTPP books are also books in universe propagated by fazbear to make it impossible to find real info on the history by muddying it with goosebumps type stories. this would explain its sporadic inconsistency's with bits of useful info.)
Here's a random thought/theory. What if Cc gets bitten first and is sent to the hospital. Then William lashes out and kills charlotte because his child is dying due to Henry's animatronic. Midnight motorist can then happen with Mike running from a drunk and upset father back to Freddy's after Charlotte's death. Cc can then die. In his own agony for the murder of his child, he could ignore cc's death in the hospital. That allows Henry to claim "the wound first inflicted" for his daughter's death, and give impetus for Charlotte's death
Hot take: cry child never existed, but his agony did. As you said- he died and it was after being in a coma for some time. So his agony may have been drawn out and dragged back to the thing that caused it- golden Freddy. This made me think that maybe there are impressions of him, but it’s not him. FNAF 4 total dream theory- Michael being tortured about his brother’s death and reliving the steps he took through out that day leading up to the bite. In terms of who died first- I always favored Elizabeth, crying child, and then Charlie.
I love seeing you put stuff together as you're like thinking it through out loud, its my favorite thing that happens in the podcast and on streams :3 I immediately saw the movie William-Vanessa relationship as being parallel to games William-Michael. It always made sense to me that Michael was both subjugated by his father and driven by his guilt over his involvement in The Bite, and that he was, at different times, working with him or against him, and I want so bad to see that reflected in the decond and third movies. I want to see Vanessa break free of William's control like Michael did and stop protecting him. I think Vanessa is going to recover from her injury and then go on to try to expose William's crimes, parallel to Michael only going against William after he was greivously injured (tho i dont think the movie will go as uncanny as undead Vanessa because they're trying to be accessible to a wider audience who might balk at such concepts.) Looking forward to next weeks video
My personal theory is that the MCI happened first, but it wasn't Purple Guy who did it - Phone Guy did. Then, Crying Child dies, and William starts losing it. He discounts his anger on Charlie (it was Henry's animatronic that killed CC) and then he notices the new tear streaks in the Puppet afterwards, and how they don't come off. The other animatronics also act weird, on top of the odor. He starts experimenting with the Funtimes, but then Circus Baby kills Emily (which I think was an accident, she wasn't supposed to die) and proves his theory, since her eyes change color after the incident. But losing 2 kids makes him finish losing it, so he keeps researching because that's all he has now.
Phone Guy aka Phone dude said earlier with Sisters location and Classic Got involved in fnaf 3 Fazbear frights Minigames = Michael Brooks + silver eyes as well
I think Michael goes to 2 and 1 to investigate why the animatronics are acting quirky since he saw the marionette wrapped around the kids and later heard about the marionette Moving around and such (I also think he goes to fnaf 1 to also see if his dad is a murderer)
Something I noticed recently which is a small but strange detail. Why do the roads/highways in Midnight Motorist NOT go the way that roads in the US go, traffic direction wise? This is a TINY detail however with the Afton's having English/British accents the EU/Non-US road layout is interesting and confusing.
41:47 I know exactly what you mean. I was Cristobal da Noble (in Spanish we had to go by our equivalent name and for some reason mine stuck with people) for two years of middle school. Supposedly it was because I was a goody-two-shoes (even though the teachers largely disliked me or ignored me).
13:3417:46 I know that is impossible to be canon now day, but in the early days of the community I had this perspective of William want to give the MCI a "forever happiest day". And after fnaf 4 I had this theory that he kills they to give this son a forever birthday party, justification is actions by given the children a better forever day... Again, I know is impossible to be canon now, but I still like this ideia. A "mad man" whos just want give the sad children a very happy and funny day, forever and every
I would LOVE some pokemon content from you! I never had the means to consume the media or the friends to play the games with, but I would sit and organize my cards for hours as a kid. I would appreciate your dive into the franchise from the beginning as a poser who watched a season and a half of the show TvT
About the Puppet around 11:00, to me it would imply that she died after the other kids because why else would Charlotte stay in the Puppet if not to help them
Why does the Crying Child always cry? Why is his brother always watching him? Why is the FNAF4 gameplay in a bedroom with a queen-size (two pillows / wide headboard) bed? Could it be that the pill bottles (something you do not have inside of a hospital, these are things you get from a pharmacy) represent someone else who was sick? What inspired William Afton to create Ballora? Baby was inspired by his daughter, Freddy and Foxy were pre-existing characters. There is often the inference that Henry Emily was the creative mind of the pair; so what inspired un-creative Afton to make Ballora? (how does Ballora's song connect to the Crying Child?)
What if the broken Ella animatronic we see in the fnaf movie is supposed to represent the early design of circus baby that was meant for cbpw and the fun times are a later update on them?
One thing that's always bothered me is how the children's bodies were never found but nobody checked them despite the smell. Then I remembered how the Give Gifts Give Life minigame is set up. I don't truly believe that the bodies got put into the suits. I think the puppet might have just put the heads on the bodies. When we hear about the MCI, the MASKS oozed blood and mucus, not the body section, just the head. And that itself is enough to make the smell happen. Because where would Charlotte get the idea to put them in the suits to begin with? At this point, noone had died in one so she wouldn't know that it was a possibility. What I think might've happened is this was the first attempt to complete or maybe even the literal interpretation of The Happiest Day, which is one of the only two times we see kids wearing masks; FNAF 3 and 4 minigames. Even the Good Ending of 3 has just the masks on the ground. Now by the time we get to Help Wanted 2, MASKS are such an important detail. Between Vanny and the Bonnie mask in the box, I'm starting to think it's the masks that's the real vessel, not the suit itself. Which complicates the hell out of things even more because the masks are much easier to move around than the whole suits and can go on any random dead body. ALSO, if the spirits have messed up memories because their bodies were never found, they wouldn't have been able to identify Michael as resembling William. As a matter of fact, the missing children shouldn't have even known what William looked like because he was wearing the suit. Do I have an answer for this? Nope. Am I forgetting something that absolutely debunks all of this? Most likely yeah.
Still holding out that charlie and crying child are the first people to go, then mci is michael's friends, all the while william is discovering more and more about remnant with each victim he kills causing him to create the sister location animatronics and leading into his death in spring bonnie. Unpointed Revenge turned into a moment of opportunity turned into death by hubris. i also like to think somewhere in there he was trying to find a way to get crying child moving again after his frontal lobe was kermonched by experimenting with remant metal trying to create a frontal lobe mechanism thatd be compatible with a human brain
As for the before or after FNAF2 debate, are you putting the 8-bit story and the gameplay story at the same point in the timeline? I've always saw the 8-bit games as flashbacks, meaning they could predate SL while the main game and termination notice could be after SL.
My problem with SL is that the MCI has to take place before SL. Bc they get melted down and put in the funtimes. But at the same time there is a lot of evidence that supports it being before the MCI. Then that raises the question, where did he get the remnant to put in the funtimes? Bc I have some very outlandish thoughts about this series, like all the time.
Do we have an answer to if the Funtime Animatronics can be made without the kidnapping tech and then later on be modified/retrofitted with the kidnapping centric technology? It seems likely they were made for Circuse Baby’s Pizza since they are still all apart of Circus Baby’s Pizza Party and Rentals and no other animatronics of the entire franchise are within that company. Since that restaurant failed their is no reason to believe they were altered after the fact now that William could have gotten his motive to do the acts that he did
So Mike would be a "reluctant follower", a term that if I remember correctly comes from the casting list of Help Wanted 1 which again would parallel mike/vanessa
Hi interesting video! I just saw the balloon boy one before this. I have several things to mention, so might to two comments. Why can't Circus Baby's and FNAF2 be at the same time? The animatronics of the Toy version and Funtimes are way to similar. Think of the Sister Location game location as a warehouse where William developed all these new bots. He put what was ready and working in the building that FNAF 2 while he worked on the rest for Circus Baby's hence why they all look similiar (including Balloon boy - theres' your connection) the ones in the open restaurant end up being Safety / Killer bots while the ones he's working on are the Kidnapping / Murder bots, and he testing the first version out. The puppet would have to be the first one created and have at the location before FNAF 2 (not saying it's possessed yet and there is suppose to be more than one) The puppets were made (along with the Toy bots) because of the problems with the Original location and the missing children. I have to say those crying child hidden video can cause ones mind to hurt, just trying to sus things out, causes too much info with no context. So I"m basing this timeline rebuttal on facts shown and not theory. The first location 1983 and is very similiar to FNAF 1 game - now either with two additional characters, golden bonny and golden fred bear or theirs a sister location with the Goldens or the Golldens are in a competetors. The missing children MCI happens - william stuffs the dead kids in those four suits - (suits are possessed yet) - during this time theres a TV cartoon and figures made about Freddy and Friends cause its copyright 1983 (doesn't mean it had to premiere the day we the viewer see it). the original closes because of MCI but now the Goldens are working at pizza place that Afton works at and either the original suits are brought to this location or stored somewhere else. This would explain why the kids have Freddy and Friends hats on at a Goldens pizza place and why the Crying Child has toys (now these character could have been based off earlier events we don't know about like Fall Fest etc). While Afton is working at this pizza restaurant he is also developing the updated version of the original characters and circus characters. (Elizabeth could have died during this time - no proof). Anyways the Crying Child either happens upon the remains of the MCI in the old suits or Afton killed his fifth victim and stuffed him in a Golden Fred suit which we know the Crying Child saw when locked in the room with the tuff of hair sticking out of the headless suit. Then foxy bro and friends put crying child in Fred bears mouth - chomp - he goes to hostipal - in coma - this location shortly closes. Then FNAF 2 opens in 1987 in the same building as the original and closes 2 weeks after. Charlie get locked outside and is killed. The events in that game are just killer bots and ghosts (there are no possessed anamotronics here) - don't think the puppet is possessed by Charlie when the game was created but it would have to be in order of events to line up the way they are presented now. Because this is 1987 the security guard (Jeremy ? i think) can't be one of the kids who got Crying Child hurt - they wouldn't be old enough to hold a security position. Now FNAF 4 could happen next - but the Crying Child could have dead before FNAF2 or after ?? While FNAF 2 is closed the Charlie Puppet attaches the MCI souls to the old animatronics (maybe the golden fred too but they were killed at a different location, hence why it can teleport - no evidence for that one). Then the events of FNAF 1 opens with the original crew who are now possessed . Then willaim demantles the suits for remnant - the charlie puppet spirit helps the children, they all enact revenge on Afton - Springtrap! then etc etc Thats what i get from the mini games - it is hard to make sense and wrap ones head around those Golden bots and Freddy masks ugh. Couple questions for yah. Can Crying Child be Henry's kid, he did have a daughter too and he has the abitlity to fix CC too? Does Foxy Bro have to be Michael Afton, couldn't that be Henry third kid? Maybe Afton had just Elizabeth and Michael? Couldn't Afton have an accomplice? As the movie showed us, any for Afton kids don't have to be his biological kids, he could have just kidnapped them all, so theirs ages wouldn't matter in the story, cause he could steal any age at the same time? why can't anyone consider the yellow/mustard person in Midnight Motorist to be a woman? I agree that JR's is an older location, however I believe the house is one of the MCI or fifth victim that was placed in Golden Fred. They were killed right before Charlie. This would make the line up fit that is given to us in Help Wanted 2 cemetary torch scene. Sorry about all that, but you got me thinking. Thanks for sharing you thought and for making these videos
they can't be at the same *exact* time because William did not make the toy animatronics, Henry did, it's stated this, as henry implemented the criminal database ai in them in case William tried breaking back in, because at this point, it's believed Henry has already banned and kicked William out. (this does happen, just not confirmed exactly when) so it could, in sense, be happening at more similar times, but at this point Freddy's and circus baby's were separate. I personally believe SL comes before 2 by the dialogue line of what's believed to be Henry questioning Afton on the Funtime inner designs. I believe after this, henry fully kicks and bans Afton, and makes the toys with the database ai
hey thanks for replying, I'm curious where the information about Henry kicking William came from? I'm fairly new to all this "lore" stuff and have been piecing stuff together and trying to take what little there is just from the games. I understand the FNAF 2 and SL were separate but how were they separate in the games? - separately owned businesses?, separately companies? That CC bite of 19?? scene is very misleading and confusing because you have Golden animatronics and action figures and masks of the Toy characters. That would mean the Golden pizza restaurant - FNAF2 location - and Circus Babys were all open at the same time and one of those might have been a competitor. I would make sense but the original Four were stored at either Golden or FNAF2 (think the game says they were stored here or was that after FNAF2 Closed/) and William had to have access to hide those bodies. Just writing that made my head hurt there's just too much information in those CC scenes, that don't seem to fit. @@MartianCandies
Can we talk about how bad of an idea Circus Baby's Pizza World was? You open a restaurant with robots designed to kidnap children, it wouldn't have been long before people traced those disappearances back to the restaurant.
I wouldn't necessarily consider William to start off as a "family man", even if he wasn't planning child murder to begin with. From what we see in the novels, he's obsessive, neglectful, and shockingly petty. If Bunny Call does possess a parallel character for him, as I believe it does, he's part of a cycle of abuse where his own parents were neglectful, leading to him developing narcissistic tendencies of his own, which in turn causes problems for his children, with Elizabeth becoming another link in the cycle, both as a direct casualty of robot murder and developing violent, narcissistic tendencies as Scrap Baby (and potentially Circus Baby, depending on your interpretation of whether she is in control or not). The movie paints him as a controlling, abusive father as well. 25:40 BASED. We stan a smelly-robot truther. 27:10 It's really fun watching somewhat build a new train of theory thought in real-time. 31:50 Someone suggested that it's a Fredbear mask that was buried symbolically, and that Michael returns to it to pay respect to his brother (this was bundled in with a video that also suggested that said mask was in The Box, and that The Box was buried there with the mask inside). 35:28 Her room being empty doesn't mean she has to be dead. It just indicates that CC _has_ a sister (or maybe Mike has some non-gender-conforming interests). Elizabeth could be one of the kids CC talks to during the minigames. PS: It's "for all intents and purposes", not "for all intensive purposes".
What if the DCI didn’t create remnant because William didn’t hide the bodies, meaning the ghosts were able to move on immediately without making more remnant?
I actually like the timeline at the end, another thing that sticks out to me but I just can't understand why is the BB thats in the closet in the movie. I feel like it has some connection to CBPW being planned to open before the 1985 fnaf 1, since if it was the 1993 fnaf 1 they wouldn't really be able to have it. I mean it is William's character after all. Though this is kinda contradicted by the help wanted games having the funtimes but like, those are based on "rumours" and the video games as well. At that point William was dead so its pretty much fine. So this kinda means that that cbear is before 1985 fnaf, which places it 1983-1985. I'm not sure what it means, but it also means that elizabeth must have died at 1983 the earliest and since CBPW might where fredbear's was her death is after CC's. Though I guess this wasn't needed since literally just the theory that cbpw was where fredbear's was places her death after CC. Sooo well I'm not sure where I am getting at here. Just more evidence for the timeline I guess. By the way, we never learn where CC's body is, at least not officially. Which is kinda more evidence for this timeline? William saying I will put you back together and making child capturing robots seems sketchy. Almost as if he was investigating possesion. Maybe he wanted to bring CC back as a robot? Or even as those babies we see in SL, they look awfully humanlike. Maybe William would make CC posess a robot, melt it and take his remnant and eject it into a robot human? (yes, robot kids, fnaf aint fnaf without robot kids.). Well it all went wrong since Elizabeth died too. But if this is the case why does William do the DCI? Idk maybe he is investigating how to make them act like they used to be before bringing CC and Elizabeth back. Well that's all I can think of since I keep getting off track and yapping. Literally started this post thinking about BB in the movie.
I find it strange that nobody considers that the concept of circus baby is much older than the funtimes as there are springlock equivalents even in the movie that could be as old as fallfest 1970. Considering how old the Mimic and the Mimic AI is it's possible that much of William's early soul works was based around his discoveries of the agony that was poured into the mimic. Could that mean William went straight to trying to kill kids to fix his son after the bite of 83? Why? How old is the Sister Location then? And if the Tangle when back into the Sister Location and grabbed all the remaining parts and remnant why is it still arguably loyal to William? I think If help wanted 1's secret Endo01's are to be believed to have been the remnant that was injected into Michal during Sister Location, then it's possible that he had every soul we know of Involved in the MCI in him besides Springtrap, the Marionette, and Golden Freddy in him at once. There's a chance that Michal knows more about what his Father has done than even William does himself. Michal caused the fnaf 3 fire and saw it didn't kill springtrap. Did he stop the fnaf 6 fire with the help of the remnant souls inside him? Why? Michal has the potential to know more about the the world than anybody else including the players so does he know something we do not? Is it possible that a soul can be in 2 or more places at once? What if the soul and remnant could both exist separately and function similarly? Could that mean that Michal needed his father's remains to track the rest of his soul parts? What became of the souls of the 2 Technician's that were killed In Sister Location? Why didn't the funtimes use THEIR bodies to escape? Who is Yenndo? Where is lolbit who is now cannon? And WHY do we NEVER actually see Baby's shell in the scooping room or the endoskeleton inside her shell when Michal get's the chip that is later found in the Brain of Helpy in Help Wanted 2? Why does Michal say he "put her back together"? And how is she "free now" as Michal claims? Isn't it weird that the voice of baby in Sister Location doesn't refer to itself as Elisabeth and talks about her as a separate person? Did nobody find it strange when "baby's voice" starts being passive aggressive to Michal and talking differently? "THEY didn't recognize me at first but then they thought I was you" Was the voice we heard that loves to play pretend actually the Mimic AI? My brain hurts.
Solution: The BV after bite becomes split into 2 parts. The main body that doctors try to save, and the piece that fell into the Golden Freddy suit, a frontal lobe seperated from the parts of the brain responsible for sight, memory, and inhibition
The beta content of the phrases that seems to come from william saying to vanesa and other person to do as he says or they will BURNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN, it feels so much as the william of the movie
Also I think Charlie’s name is Charlie Emily Schmidt and Henry Schmidt Emily always sounded like a strange last name it makes more sense to be a middle name and it connects to the movie.
"Due to the massive success, and, even more so, the unfortunate closing of Freddy Fazbear's Pizza, it was clear that the stage was set for another contender in children's entertainment. Unlike most robotic entertainment venues, our robotic entertainers are rented out during the day." Based on this quote, and the fact FNAF 3's phone calls show Fazbear Entertainment refers to their "other locations" and their "Sister Location" as two separate things, I'd conclude this: Freddys opens first, followed by Baby's while Freddy's is still open. After Baby's shuts down, the animatronics were kept in the bunker, finally being used as entertainers again decades later after "the unfortunate closing of Freddy Fazbear's Pizza"
The rental service had to have started after either the closing of the FNAF 1 Freddy's, the closing of the OG Freddy's, or the closing of the FNAF 2 Freddy's. OG Freddy's had multiple concurrent locations (confirmed in FNAF 3), and FNAF 2 Freddy's upon closing was already set to reopen on a small budget. Since HandUnit referred to "Freddy's" in singular when referring to the franchise as a whole, it's a very safe assumption that it was after FNAF 1 Freddy's closed, as they likely only had one location.
I do definitely believe the movie is filling out SOME kind of blanks for us. What "blanks" those were hasn't been super clear, but I always thought there was something about Vanessa and William's relationship in the movie that we should be applying to the games. I do like the idea you talked about though, it makes Michael a MUCH more potentially interesting character imo
I just saw your video about FNAF World from a few days ago, great stuff!
Not really it actually makes Michael less interesting. His character change afterwards makes less sense than
It definitely filled out two blanks for me: MM & where Elizabeth was during FNAF4.
@@novustalks7525No it makes lots of sense, from him killing his brother on accident to being guilted, manipulated, and tortured essentially by his father. Then obviously following his orders, until the turning point which I think is sister location? I don’t know how to word it but him turning on his mentally and possibly physically abusive father once he is able to makes lots of sense!
@@jax4306 following his dad's orders doesn't make sense
Top three funniest parts of this video:
1. My sister and I finished writing and recording our very first video essay, on the FNAF timeline, riiight before you started posting these timeline discussions lol.
2. We had the Vanessa=Mike Accomplice realization at the end of our writing process so seeing you have the same reaction we did was GOLD.
3. The Family Guy joke because. Me and my sisters have the greatest time making jokes about Spring Bonnie replacing a random kid’s dad and I mentioned I was disappointed the graphic novel never gave us an illustration of him laying on the bed watching TV. After speculating for a lot of time on what would be funniest for him to be watching on that, we settled on “Family Guy funny moments.”
Lmao fr Into the Pit out of context has to be one of the funniest Fazbear Frights stories
@@RyeToast I have sent my friends the graphic novel image of Oswald finding Spring Bonnie at the dinner table out of context and their reactions are always glorious
dual process
Im so glad someone is finally talking about the movie's family dynamics! its been something that has taken up my brain since the movie came out! The idea that Vanessa and Micheal are parallel to each other shows us exactly the kind of father Willam was. He blamed vanessa for 'the mess she made' and while it could be describing her letting Michael know too much, it could also be a jab at Vanessa for starting all of the events before that point. The Michael in the film was a great way to see how he behaves, hes obsessive, anxious and constantly haunted by guilt which is his main motivator for staying at Freddy's after the first night. His obsession with dream theory may be a callback to FNAF 4 since both movie micheal and game michael have a history of repeating dreams. I also think thats why Glitchtrap held on so tightly to Vannessa. Willaim had someone else doing most of the work for him like some kind of henchmen so Vanessa the 'reluctant follower' is a stand in for michael and his role despite vanny having more of an elizabeth look and attitude. Just like michael she broke out of his manipulative control and is now doing whatever she has to in order to stop him like how Micheal is theorized to be doing throughout the games. Its History repeating itself
I know it hasn’t been talked about but I have this strange head cannon that circus baby’s pizza world didn’t have the fun times we know, but early non-kidnappy versions, but when Elizabeth gets killed due to a real mechanical fault in baby’s ice cream function, the franchise closed down and we’re put into storage in the bunker, where afton then had the chance to experiment and rebound them to be the dangerous creations they came to be. I know this has no real basis, but it’s an interesting thought that would allow for them to be earlier in the time line without technology being as stranger as the fun times would make it. The idea of puppet and balloon boy being some of these original animatronics would have meant that the early fun times would have been closer in function and appearance to the toy animatronics which is believable to me.
i don't know that i believe it but i REALLY like this theory, i think it could realistically happen
YES I was just thinking this, especially because the way that circus baby is portrayed to give ice cream is so different between the sister location mini-game (sets it down then a weird arm materializes) vs. the on in HW2 (the arm extends, gives you the ice cream, then retracts extremely fast). Maybe Elizabeth took too long to grab the ice cream and got pulled in?
Then later on the funtimes could be altered to snatch children on purpose, rather than by accident...
Finally someone who also thinks that!
Is canon? Maybe not
Do I care? Nope :D
They were already dangerous
16:08 Hey, that's me! Thank you for answering my question
Easily my favorite episode of the podcast. It's going to be hard to top. It was awesome hearing you talk your self into 2 theories along with the origin of RyeToast and your path towards YouTubing full time.
Same, can't beat the rye origins
Whether William was obsessed with immortality from the get-go or not doesn't really matter.
He could have been obsessed, sure, but he would have no idea where to start.
As has been reiterated multiple times: William needs to know about remnant before he can even begin to start studying its effects of anchoring a soul to Earth. That's the only thing he tries in this franchise, and if he didn't see hauntings before that, it would have never even been on his radar.
I don't understand how people keep missing this. There has to be more motivation than just "Oh, he's just evil so he killed kids."
@@PandoricaLost mr hippos line of looking too far into things. sometimes, people *are* just plain evil, thats the only explanation there is, will ever be, and the only one that would give any closure, *for those types of people.* youll drive yourself crazy looking for another reason.
irs very plausible this is the case with afton. why does he have to have some kind of "better" driving force, like wanting to experiment with remnant? maybe he was just plain evil, then sees the proof of hauntings, and then, starts pursuing remnant.
this is how ive always interpreted it at least
27:53
i think he tampering with the AI from the animatronics in custom night means that he's trying to put to rest the souls, but he's caught and fired by a fazbear employee
42:30 "It's RyeToast cuz I'm hot" THIS IS BRILLIANT XDDDD I LOVE THIS COMEBACK SM
What if "Save them / You can't" takes place BEFORE "Give Gifts, Give Life"? Remember the in-between night cutscenes were you see POV as Freddie on stage. Then, what is the cutscene "Save them / You can't"? It's that Freddy following the puppet around; looking at the scattered bodies... Or are they the souls lying around where they were each killed? The same "body" shapes are used for "Give Gifts / Give Life", inferring that the repeat use of these objects means they should be associated as the same thing or highly similar. "Save them" is a statement separate from "You can't". Freddy can't save them... But the Puppet can.
To the point of CC possessing GF not making sense: after revisiting that information my thought process was always that CC’s agony was what possessed GF, but actual CC did not possess it after death. That’s why GF is violent, because it’s Vengeful Spirit AND Crying Child’s agony, and the agony is what reaches out to Mike to say “it’s me.” If you combine that with your theory, it’s possible that Charlotte senses that GF had his agony within it and when they couldn’t find his body they put him within it.
Also, my running theory on William’s motive for Charlotte’s death was always that Crying Child was bitten by an animatronic Henry helped to create, because the Fredbear that killed CC had the same hinged jaw that was a staple of Henry’s.
ALSO, as for how Michael could be dead during FNAF 1 and the animatronics be possessed, I’ve always liked the split souls theory but slightly modified, where the souls do go to Ennard but some of the agony remains in the original animatronics.
Sort of a random thought, the crying childs bite could have been public, but Afton brought him back to the bunker where he could set up a makeshift hospital to try to save him. It could explain why the crying child would be confused about him being dead. His bite was public but his death was private, at Aftons home, and no one else has found his body because he was buried in the woods without anyone knowing except for William, Michael and possibly(probably if she left her husband) Mrs Afton. If William was determined to bring back the crying child it isn't out of the realm of possibility that he would lie to everyone outside of the family and say "oh yes my youngest son is still in a coma, but we are taking care of him at home and hopeful for a full recovery" while working on how to bring someone back to life. Hell the experiments he would do to try to bring the crying child back could be why Mrs. Afton leaves him, but there's no evidence for that really.
I think you're right that there isn't solid evidence but it makes total sense as speculation. Explains why Michael broke out of his room to go to the dirt mound (Later That Night) to mourn the brother he has to pretend in public is still alive.
@@qryptid it makes sense as headcannon and fits into the story, as convoluted as it currently is, the biggest stretch in my opinion is this being the reason why Mrs. Afton left William. All we know in regards to that is that she's not mentioned and left. But I could easily see the murders of children and possibly adults being too much and making her leave but the hope of her son being brought back kept her from blowing the whistle on what he was doing
"Is he for all intensive purposes...a family guy" and that cold open is why I LOVE this podcast
you mean for all intents and purposes?
*intents and purposes
He's intensive with his intents & purposes
@Glitch_Shift this is not how I needed to learn how I've been misunderstanding a turn of phrase oh my god I'm stupid
@@SirenOfStyxx No, no it’s okay, it’s an ‘Eggcorn’, it can be easily misheard but still gets a similar meaning. They’re quite common actually
Glitchtrap, William or not, threatens game vanessa similarly in the emails. She "orders herself" flowers for 'her funeral' and thumbscrews. Oh, things are cooking :V
RIGHT??
@@RyeToast please please please can i have a working discord server link? The one in your description to this video told me its invalid 🥺🥺🥺🥺
For the "Elizabeth first" theory, the question isn't 'Why would William Afton create the Funtimes if he hadn't killed someone yet?' The real question is 'Was Circus Baby actually made to murder?'
Here is the evidence that Circus Baby is much older than the other Funtimes and wasn't built to kill/kidnap children.
1. Her coloring is completely different from the Funtimes. All the other Funtime animatronics are pastel colors: light pinks, pale purples, and whites. Baby's colors are deep reds and oranges. These are more saturated colors -- more similar to Balloon Boy, Little Jim, etc.
2. Circus Baby's blueprints are different from the other Funtimes. She doesn't have any kidnapping technology listed.
We often say she had to have been built to kidnap based on the comments to Afton and "the claw." But that's not necessarily the case.
The features the investors were concerned about could have been her clearly more advanced AI, sound illusion technology, split face, 7 ft tall height or something else. Whatever it was, we know that the investors allowed Baby's Pizza World to move forward. If it was kidnapping tech, I would hope they would have pulled out of the project.
At the very least, if Baby were made to kidnap or kill, Afton went from hiding it on the blueprints to making it very obvious. This alone shows that there was some big change between the construction of Baby and the other Funtimes.
As for the "claw," we know from Security Breach that they still build non-kidnapping animatronics with food dispensers in their torsos (Glam rock Freddy).
Baby killing Elizabeth could have been a glitch of the ice cream function. Maybe the investors knew that the ice cream dispenser was glitchy and that was the feature they were concerned about.
3. Baby's dialogue is different from the other Funtimes. She is much more advanced, self-aware and cunning. Her voice lines aren't recorded or repeated like the other Funtimes. It's not just because of Elizabeth. Every animatronic had some dead kid inside them. Plus, her self-awareness seems to have begun before Elizabeth's death. Her monologue about being on stage happens before she 'lost control of herself.'
There's something fundamentally different about Circus Baby that we aren't taking into consideration that might have started this whole cycle with William Afton.
I sort of mentally checked out of the franchise when it went from "serial killer and possessed animatronics" to "hyperintelligent sentient ai in the 80s and magic ghost metal"
Why are you watching this video then?
@@alexp.288 because I enjoy ryes content?
Its kinda always been that, if GF’s speech in fnaf1 is anything to go by
So you checked out like 8 years ago?
@@I_PizzaThat was just repurposed audio to make spooky demon noises
Have you considered that, perhaps the hatches in the funtimes originally weren't for kidnapping but for safety? and circus babies stomach hatch malfunctioned?, i could easily see them as some natural disaster or dangerous situation safe room feature
“RyeToast cause I’m hot” You’re not getting away from this
i wont lie i spent 20 minutes trying to read ryes notes at the beginning
Same., then I convinced myself they were just blank
I do occasionally consider the possibility that Elizabeth was the oldest child and killed accidentally first (but the childnapping protocol was intentional). Mike was too little too understand and thus is never scared of the animatronics, tormenting his younger brother who has seen Something that makes him terrified of the animatronics. Like William just gets So Hype and makes the height of tech, something so futuristic that he then Downgrades after Elizabeth dies. Like, maybe its Babylock, missing child incident (that CC witnesses maybe? Or maybe the aftermath), Charlie cuz William is just jealous Henry's daughter is alive when his isn't, Then CC (cuz his house has an empty girls bedroom that could be a shrine to beloved daughter)
Glad y’all are feeling better!
I'm just saying this as "no way it's true but wouldn't it be funny" if the crying child dies, William lives his life and becomes a robotic genius, goes through a time travelling ballpit with the fun times to prevent the accident, but they end up killing Elizabeth and that's why she doesn't show up in FNAF 4. It's crazy, it's a joke, but never say never when it comes to this franchise XD
This is a fun idea
Atp, this could be true ☠️
I definitely agree that Movie Vanessa = Games Mike. William refers to the haunting of Freddy’s and killing Mike and Abby as "the mess you made" which feels relevant to Foxybro Mike.
I don’t know who to phrase this the right way, but I think the community has to decide whether are not good storytelling matters when forming a timeline. There if there is an order of events that makes sense even if it is narratively unsatisfying it is probably right. I think we can give Scott much much credit as an author.
I guess it's up to the person making the timeline, you know? There's enough vagueness that it could go either way
I feel the Funtime Foxy toy in the girl's room in FNaF 4 is something people don't pay enough heed to when it comes to the timeline, especially when Sister Location shows us there was a spring lock suit at Pizza World and that it was hooked up to the same power system as Fredbear's.
With the death order in HW2 I see two possibilities, either the MCI is first and fallfest is the inciting incident, or the crying child is the first incident but he doesn’t die until later, the first actual death is chica, but the crying child bite was the incident that caused William to snap (still doesn’t fully explain why he kills Charlie though, I hope we get more information about that with fallfest)
Hearing Rye go through the timeline of this channel made me realize how long I've been watching you, I remember seeing that timeline video and subscribing after that. Seeing how much your channel has grown since then makes me so happy
Thanks for being around all this time! That means a lot
I personally think that
1:
There IS a prerequisite for CCs death! The rumors! We know from both the Fredbear plush and one of the kids that there are already rumors of dead around the franchise. This requires SOMETHING to have happened by that point.
2:
The movie hints at the order of the Afton family deaths. First, Garret dies in a wooded area; Michael is young and Abby is not present. Then, Abby is born, and the family falls apart. Michael has to take care of Abby and forms a troubled relationship. Michael remembers Garret, but Abby doesn't. This relationship leads to Abby being put in danger at the hands of the animatronics.
The only character in the game timeline that dies in a wooded area is Elizabeth. CC never acknowledges Elizabeth's existence, so he may not have been born or was too young to remember her when she died. Michael forms a troubled relationship with CC due to his fears of the franchise and constant need for care and attention. This causes Michael to get CC hurt at the hands of the animatronics.
3.
The Silver Eyes also paints William as psychotic, possibly due to mental damage from a springlock failure. We KNOW that there was an incident involving "multiple, simultaneous springlock failures" from the FNaF3 tapes. He may not have needed a reason for the MCI...
Charlotte's death could also have been just the result of his issues with Henry and the happenstance of seeing her locked out of Freddy's. She could've also been killed as "revenge" for Elizabeth's death in William's mind.
This all suggests, to me, the order of deaths is: MCI, Elizabeth, Charlotte, and then CC. Take this with a Popcorn bucket's worthlof salt though!
William Afton needs more information. When the series first started, it makes sense. There are two types of antagonists: a villain, and a monster. At the start, "purple guy" was a monster. And monsters work best the less you know about them. A great monster is one you never see - think Jaws, or Cloverfield. Those were so effective partly because you never see the monster until the very end. The less you know, the more your imagination has to fill in, and that is going to make them the scariest thing you could think of.
But we're past the days of purple guy. William Afton is no longer a monster. He's a villain. And a villain works best the MORE you know. The best villains are exactly like everyone else you know, except for that one thing. It's the close knit family that there's something just a little off, who turn out to be cannibals. It's the next door neighbor who always says hi, and brings over fresh baked cookies, and has a collection of severed body parts in their basement.
FNAF has turned Afton from a monster into a villain, but they're still treating him like a monster. And that doesn't work any more. Afton isn't scary as an antagonist anymore because we know just enough about him to know that he's just a guy. But not enough to make him fall into that "uncanny valley" where he's normal enough to be relatable, except for that one thing. Now every time the games bring him back, I just have to groan. Because he's no longer interesting as an antagonist.
At this point, they have two options. Option one, move away from Afton. Future games should make it clear - Afton is no more. The use of the mimic is pretty effective. And topical, with AI as monster being relevant to issues today.
Option two is to go back and show us Afton's origin. It seems like they're considering this, with the references to Fall Fest. But they can't be as mysterious as they have been. Fall Fest needs to give us definitive answers if they want to keep using Afton. They need to humanize the monster they've created by showing us who he really is, and the inciting incident that started him on his path to becoming "purple guy".
Regarding William's motivations, I'll offer my altered opinion on the subject based on my fallfest theory:
(Conjecture) Fallfest was being run by Mrs. Afton’s family (before she was an Afton, so I refer to her as Clara for convenience) for generations, possibly since the 1930’s with the Fredbear singing show, with her also doing ballet tight-rope performances (assuming she's based on Ballora).
Henry Emily was working as an engineer for the carnival attractions, likely creating Carny and Mystic Hippo, alongside the musical melodies and Fazband.
William Afton was a British man who immigrated to the US to pursue the entertainment industry (hence why all his children grew up with British accents). He would help Henry create the characters of the musical melodies, mascot outfits, pring Bonnie and Fredbear, and the Fazbear characters (who we see eventually play at Fallfest 1983 according to the HW2 crane game).
Which comes to Carnival Nurse. It’s interesting that she is... well, a carnival nurse, in the Pizzeria Simulator location. In a game mode that has carnival themed characters (Lefty is just reskinned Carnie, Pig Patch is a musical melody member of the Carnival, and Scrapbaby is a clown, and we know that William Afton built two businesses based on circuses).
[Side note: FuhNaff pointed out that the Silver Eyes novels had mentioned William and Henry having books on the Circus]
It’s also interesting that we don’t actually know what William Afton was doing in the UK before he moved to the US. I say he came to the US because he wanted to enter the entertainment industry… but what if that wasn’t what he was doing before?
Gibi postulates that William Afton only thought about the mysteries of the human body after studying yoga gurus that were mentioned in FNAF 1 in hidden sounds, which is where he learned about the idea of combining metal and flesh for remnant.
I don’t disagree… but I think William has ALWAYS been interested in the human body. What if he was a medical professional in the Uk and used his talents here?
Because, beyond working as a Mascot performer and businessman with Henry and Clara, William could possibly have been a nurse or doctor AT the Fallfest Carnival.
It makes a certain amount of sense for how he became a genius with experimenting on children, not just in stuffing them into suits, but in creating technology that targets their minds (nightmare experiments) and in trying to recreate human physiology (Sister Location faces we see in the main room).
We always assumed his experiments started with his own kids, but what if he actually took an interest in the kids whom Helpy represents? The injured ones who were sent to his medical tent.
The carnival nurse voice lines are very interesting, because they are all easy ways for William to pick up unsuspecting children to experiment on.
What is even more damning is that these injured children actually stop being “injured” at some point: general neglect, parental neglect, and “unclassified trauma”.
What does THAT mean? Unclassified trauma???
What I think it means is that William slowly went from treating injured children to grabbing and sedating any child who was vulnerable with the 1970’s equivalent of the gas mask we see in Help Wanted 2, possibly just outright grabbing a kid who was alone in the case of “unclassified trauma”. Possibly as his Spring Bonnie mascot character…
But why?
I don't believe it was to murder them. There has never been any mention of murders or disappearances at Fallfest. The only real notoriety seems to be that in 1983, the Fallfest Carnival burned down (which I believe may have been Mrs. Afton's doing, possibly by accident, based on Clara from Immortal and the Restless + the fire seeming to start from the barn in HW2 when you zoom out of the carousel).
No, what I believe is that William was using these children for something that would haunt (pun intended) the franchise for decades to come: Human Emotion and Reality.
We know from the Silver Eyes Novels and the Tales from the Pizzaplex Novels that each iteration of William Afton has a focus on messing with the mental faculties of human beings. The Silver Eyes has the Sound Illusion Discs, devices built to use sound to mess with the information that the human brain receives. Tales from the Pizzaplex has Nightmare Gas, some kind of gaseous concoction that creates terrifying illusions that alter the appearance of not only one's surroundings, but their own body as well.
Even the recent Steelwool games has a focus on the VR/AR (possibly spirit world) reality network, where phones and VR/AR masks can allow people to see a fake reality (or possibly what it truly looks like under the surface). And while it's might not directly be William's creation - though HW1 DLC seems to have Vanessa conversing with William/Mimic/Glitchtrap/All of the above - it is most certainly a Fazbear creation, and we know they like to crib things from Henry and William's designs (see: stomach hatches and Nightmarionette).
And we know from the original Scotts games that Micheal Afton (and possibly the Crying Child) were forced to endure Nightmare Experiments from William himself.
Alright, so William was always some evil asshole who was obsessed with fear and tormenting children?
Well, no. Not the fear part at least.
I often think back to the Fredbear suit telling William in a mocking tone about, 'There was more fantasy and fun where I came from!', which reminded me of the Fazbear company slogan: 'Where fantasy and fun, come to life!'
I do think that William as a serial killer wanted to bring the fantasy aspect to life, but William the performer? Someone who wanted his family and friends to thrive in the business world?
I believe that William Afton was using these children - injured and not - as a means of trying to figure out how to artificially create happiness. If he could harness Fun and make it so that every child was a return, then he would conquer the entertainment industry.
Insane? Absolutely.
In character? Probably!
William Afton likely had some inspiration of Diary of a Yogi - which I mentioned in part 2 of the theory - and could have believed in the concept of actual 'life-force', which means that emotion (Fun and later Fear... or Agony) was a manipulatable source he could access.
It's even possible that while the above - him wanting to pull a Monster Inc on Fun to build up the Fazbear business - isn't completely correct... I do think it's true that he would use these "injured" children to study life-force in order to bring back the Crying Child.
The same child that died in the same year of Fallfest 1983, the same year that the Carnival Burned down, just like Clara burned down Vlad's house.
The same Carnival that had IT'S ME hidden inside the Barn, almost as if a spirit was gaining strength and wanting to be found... and everything went wrong.
EXCUSE ME???? Look, despite this being my SpIn, I have a very ... Nebulous idea of the timeline. There's SO MUCH information everywhere and I'm pretty happy to just go huh that sounds valid to most theories I hear.
But THIS ONE.
Look, the application of the info we have so far is difficult, and we can't honestly be sure about the accuracy of anything yet, esp to do with fallfest, but this?
This is a STORY I want to see. Tbh it has very....almost SCP vibes for William? And I LOVE that. And I think the conjectures are valid!
But this is what I wanna seeeee!!!
26:35 Rye's realization to the parallelism between the Afton family dynamics in the books and movies is so funny 😭
I believe there has been a lot of speculation with Mike and Vanessa and their respective dads, and of course probably why Vanessa and Gregory were chosen by the Glitchtrap virus to do its bidding. I think it's really interesting why in both the books and the movie, William is known to have one daughter, but never any sons, and that one daughter has always been a parallel to Elizabeth. I always thought that it was to flesh out her character more and to understand why she did the things she did both when she was human and then as a robot: to please her dad. And that same logic applies to Michael too.
Your story speaks to me on so many levels. 2 kids with higher needs as a single parent. I’ve been trying to get a few games developed with a small team but hell it’s a challenge handling everything. Keep up the awesome work!
Not Rye admitting to hiding earbuds just like the students lmao
You know, hearing you talk about how you got started on this channel... Dang, I think I've been there since almost the beginning if not from it. I remember hearing you talk about bits of this stuff here and there. Has it really been *that* long? You've come so far in terms of writing and editing quality; I hope you are proud of how much you've grown! (that is not a backhanded insult, it is a true compliment; it is a good thing to acknowledge progress even as we recognise we always have more to learn.)
I came up with a "logical" order of deaths based establishing William's motive:
1) Bite of 83: Fredbear kills the CC. This was an accident with no supernatural cause. William (security guard) now hates Michael and Henry.
2) Midnight Motorist/Give Cake to the Children: Afton revenge kills Henry's daughter. The footprints outside the house are from possessed and confused Fredbear/CC trying to come home.
3) MCI: Afton is symbolically recreating his son's death by stuffing children into animatronics.
Several things happen that we have VERY little info about.
Between 2) and 4) Afton realizes CC is possessing Fredbear and becomes obsessed with bringing him back. YENDO and Fredbear springlock suit in SL?
4) "Afton Robotics" creates the Funtimes to collect more Remnant. Funtimes have parts and/or Remnant taken from the MCI Withereds.
5) Circus Baby kills Elizabeth. Irony!
6) 1987 The Funtimes can't collect Remnant so William commits DCI and gets caught.
I’ve always believed that Eli’s death was a complete animatronic malfunction, no “it was all planned” but just a true accident and the funtimes were “repurposed” for remnant later down the road since Circus Baby’s Rental is still renting out the animatronics.
Malfunction??? That is clearly and blatantly NOT what happened
Most the Fall Fest minigames in HW2 end with everything being lit on fire. In HW1 the maze minigame has Jacko Foxy. This makes me think that an animatronic at the fest caught fire (Represented by Foxy) which spread throughout the entire fest
8:25 with the dream communication and haunting this also appears in the movie. With the missing children talking to Mike and giving Abby memories. Which leads me to say the movie probably has more evidence like this and we have to start looking at it like we look at the books. It's not a 1:1 telling of the story, but it has clues that we can use to explain things that happen in the game timeline
Michael following his dad's orders (willingly or not) would certainly also explain why the MCI kids were never found because they were hidden in the animatronics, but when the Withereds were being used for parts, no one seems to have asked "Hey. Were there supposed to be bodies in here?"
u bring up an interesting point about CC going into a coma before he dies, because this means while we know when the bite itself happens, we don't necessarily know when he actually dies. i dont know how plausible/possible this is but it could be that CC being bitten and Elizabeth's death happen pretty close to each other, but with Charlotte's death in between?
-CC gets chomped while Circus Babys is in development
-in a fit of rage, Afton murders Charlotte and realizes possession is possible
-Afton modifies the already mostly finished funtime animatronics for experiments (which explains why he'd tell his beloved daughter that he built baby for her, she wasnt initially intended to be a murder bot)
-Elizabeth then gets Baby'd
-CC dies, at which point afton tells CC he'll "put him back together"
-THEN the MCI happens to try to bring CC back
41:28 My kid is 10 years old and her name is Riley too. Over the years I’ve called her Ri-a-papaya, Raichu and Roy.
If William dies before SL, who is keeping Circus Baby’s Rentals up and running?
I really appreciate this format for Fnaf. Keep this series going. Everyone post theory videos but the podcast format is like real time theory crafting. Organic.
This was the best episode so far! Always fun to convince yourself of a theory 😅
Also neat learning more about your background and how you got here. Keep up the great work!
For some reason this podcast episode isn't on Spotify. I'm loving every episode.
It's not on any of my podcatchers, either. It's a good one!
15:10 perhaps Circus Baby and the Funtimes were originally the ones intended to capture Charlotte (For whichever reason he wanted to do that), and when that plan backfired, he proceeded to do it himself?
Maybe???
Idk if you spoke about this later in the vid but that thing with the memories of the dead children could relate to the movie - as the animatronics didn’t know what happened until they were told by [Cassidy] - as well as help wanted 2 with the collection of literal “memories”
i feel you on the "bullies not having good nicknames to make fun of you with" thing lol
when i was in high school it was mentioned to me that someone people called me tiptoe behind my back (im a toe walker) and i was just like??? that's adorable what how is that a mean nickname fgkhflkldh
I’ve been working on a theory that both William and Henry were sociopathic child murderers
Part of it is that the Fall Fest fire which destroyed so many of their animatronics was started by the Missing Children Incident kids, Charlie and Michael
The middle of this video helped me work out a few more kinks
It would makes some sense by the evidence that henry didn't do anything until his daughter was a victim show how one sided Henry's sympathy is to the children .
always so hyped when a new podcast episode drops
I like the idea that the FNAF movie is the real story that the indie games are based around, so taking place in the games universe like SB, RUIN, etc. but disconnected from the original game series. Not sold on this idea but I'm open to it depending on how the future movies go. (I also like the idea that all the Fazbear Frights and TFTPP books are also books in universe propagated by fazbear to make it impossible to find real info on the history by muddying it with goosebumps type stories. this would explain its sporadic inconsistency's with bits of useful info.)
Here's a random thought/theory. What if Cc gets bitten first and is sent to the hospital. Then William lashes out and kills charlotte because his child is dying due to Henry's animatronic. Midnight motorist can then happen with Mike running from a drunk and upset father back to Freddy's after Charlotte's death. Cc can then die. In his own agony for the murder of his child, he could ignore cc's death in the hospital. That allows Henry to claim "the wound first inflicted" for his daughter's death, and give impetus for Charlotte's death
Hot take: cry child never existed, but his agony did. As you said- he died and it was after being in a coma for some time. So his agony may have been drawn out and dragged back to the thing that caused it- golden Freddy. This made me think that maybe there are impressions of him, but it’s not him.
FNAF 4 total dream theory- Michael being tortured about his brother’s death and reliving the steps he took through out that day leading up to the bite.
In terms of who died first- I always favored Elizabeth, crying child, and then Charlie.
That fnaf movie correlation literally blew my mind when you said it omg
I love seeing you put stuff together as you're like thinking it through out loud, its my favorite thing that happens in the podcast and on streams :3
I immediately saw the movie William-Vanessa relationship as being parallel to games William-Michael. It always made sense to me that Michael was both subjugated by his father and driven by his guilt over his involvement in The Bite, and that he was, at different times, working with him or against him, and I want so bad to see that reflected in the decond and third movies.
I want to see Vanessa break free of William's control like Michael did and stop protecting him. I think Vanessa is going to recover from her injury and then go on to try to expose William's crimes, parallel to Michael only going against William after he was greivously injured (tho i dont think the movie will go as uncanny as undead Vanessa because they're trying to be accessible to a wider audience who might balk at such concepts.)
Looking forward to next weeks video
My personal theory is that the MCI happened first, but it wasn't Purple Guy who did it - Phone Guy did. Then, Crying Child dies, and William starts losing it. He discounts his anger on Charlie (it was Henry's animatronic that killed CC) and then he notices the new tear streaks in the Puppet afterwards, and how they don't come off. The other animatronics also act weird, on top of the odor. He starts experimenting with the Funtimes, but then Circus Baby kills Emily (which I think was an accident, she wasn't supposed to die) and proves his theory, since her eyes change color after the incident. But losing 2 kids makes him finish losing it, so he keeps researching because that's all he has now.
a simple psychological profile or dossier would help so much.
Phone Guy aka Phone dude said earlier with Sisters location and Classic Got involved in fnaf 3 Fazbear frights Minigames = Michael Brooks + silver eyes as well
I think Michael goes to 2 and 1 to investigate why the animatronics are acting quirky since he saw the marionette wrapped around the kids and later heard about the marionette Moving around and such (I also think he goes to fnaf 1 to also see if his dad is a murderer)
Something I noticed recently which is a small but strange detail. Why do the roads/highways in Midnight Motorist NOT go the way that roads in the US go, traffic direction wise? This is a TINY detail however with the Afton's having English/British accents the EU/Non-US road layout is interesting and confusing.
BRO JOHN WAS COOKING WITH HIS MOST RECENT SECURITY BREACH THEORY!!!! YOU HAVE TO GET HIM ON HERE SOON!!!
41:47 I know exactly what you mean. I was Cristobal da Noble (in Spanish we had to go by our equivalent name and for some reason mine stuck with people) for two years of middle school. Supposedly it was because I was a goody-two-shoes (even though the teachers largely disliked me or ignored me).
13:34 17:46
I know that is impossible to be canon now day, but in the early days of the community I had this perspective of William want to give the MCI a "forever happiest day". And after fnaf 4 I had this theory that he kills they to give this son a forever birthday party, justification is actions by given the children a better forever day...
Again, I know is impossible to be canon now, but I still like this ideia. A "mad man" whos just want give the sad children a very happy and funny day, forever and every
Mike opening the suits to expose William makes so much sense.
But then why is he looking for his sister in the bunker later?
Maybe he suspects Elizabeth's body is down there Or maybe he goes down there to find hints on how she died?
I would LOVE some pokemon content from you! I never had the means to consume the media or the friends to play the games with, but I would sit and organize my cards for hours as a kid. I would appreciate your dive into the franchise from the beginning as a poser who watched a season and a half of the show TvT
Yippeeee! New podcast episode! Just what I needed rn
damn, this was an awesome episode! i love seeing someone put pieces together and come to a new conclusion in real-time!
My toast plushy arrived while I was enjoying this video 🥰
About the Puppet around 11:00, to me it would imply that she died after the other kids because why else would Charlotte stay in the Puppet if not to help them
Either the encyclopedia or the Freddy files book (I can't remember which) but one of them hint that Michael helps William
Honestly loved this episode through and through. Thank you for sharing about your TH-cam origins and journey. You're hella based and relatable 💚
This might be one of my favourite episodes of the podcast. I got to my own timeline.
Why does the Crying Child always cry? Why is his brother always watching him? Why is the FNAF4 gameplay in a bedroom with a queen-size (two pillows / wide headboard) bed? Could it be that the pill bottles (something you do not have inside of a hospital, these are things you get from a pharmacy) represent someone else who was sick? What inspired William Afton to create Ballora? Baby was inspired by his daughter, Freddy and Foxy were pre-existing characters. There is often the inference that Henry Emily was the creative mind of the pair; so what inspired un-creative Afton to make Ballora? (how does Ballora's song connect to the Crying Child?)
Man, I love this podcast. Please never stop making it.
What if the broken Ella animatronic we see in the fnaf movie is supposed to represent the early design of circus baby that was meant for cbpw and the fun times are a later update on them?
One thing that's always bothered me is how the children's bodies were never found but nobody checked them despite the smell. Then I remembered how the Give Gifts Give Life minigame is set up. I don't truly believe that the bodies got put into the suits. I think the puppet might have just put the heads on the bodies. When we hear about the MCI, the MASKS oozed blood and mucus, not the body section, just the head. And that itself is enough to make the smell happen. Because where would Charlotte get the idea to put them in the suits to begin with? At this point, noone had died in one so she wouldn't know that it was a possibility. What I think might've happened is this was the first attempt to complete or maybe even the literal interpretation of The Happiest Day, which is one of the only two times we see kids wearing masks; FNAF 3 and 4 minigames. Even the Good Ending of 3 has just the masks on the ground. Now by the time we get to Help Wanted 2, MASKS are such an important detail. Between Vanny and the Bonnie mask in the box, I'm starting to think it's the masks that's the real vessel, not the suit itself. Which complicates the hell out of things even more because the masks are much easier to move around than the whole suits and can go on any random dead body.
ALSO, if the spirits have messed up memories because their bodies were never found, they wouldn't have been able to identify Michael as resembling William. As a matter of fact, the missing children shouldn't have even known what William looked like because he was wearing the suit.
Do I have an answer for this? Nope. Am I forgetting something that absolutely debunks all of this? Most likely yeah.
Did Circus Baby's close, and then that's when Afton and Henry merged and made Freddie's? Hmm?
It was fun watching you theorize live, Mr Grim
Still holding out that charlie and crying child are the first people to go, then mci is michael's friends, all the while william is discovering more and more about remnant with each victim he kills causing him to create the sister location animatronics and leading into his death in spring bonnie. Unpointed Revenge turned into a moment of opportunity turned into death by hubris. i also like to think somewhere in there he was trying to find a way to get crying child moving again after his frontal lobe was kermonched by experimenting with remant metal trying to create a frontal lobe mechanism thatd be compatible with a human brain
As for the before or after FNAF2 debate, are you putting the 8-bit story and the gameplay story at the same point in the timeline?
I've always saw the 8-bit games as flashbacks, meaning they could predate SL while the main game and termination notice could be after SL.
Unsurprisingly this was another banger episode, keep it up big Rye 👍
36:03 In HW 2 breaker room level one of the power switches is labeled as "Pizza World"
This came out the same day my Youtooz RyeToast arrived? What serendipity!
The balloon boy is the key to the fnaf timeline is very interesting is also interesting that balloon boy could be in circus baby pizza world
My problem with SL is that the MCI has to take place before SL. Bc they get melted down and put in the funtimes. But at the same time there is a lot of evidence that supports it being before the MCI. Then that raises the question, where did he get the remnant to put in the funtimes? Bc I have some very outlandish thoughts about this series, like all the time.
Do we have an answer to if the Funtime Animatronics can be made without the kidnapping tech and then later on be modified/retrofitted with the kidnapping centric technology?
It seems likely they were made for Circuse Baby’s Pizza since they are still all apart of Circus Baby’s Pizza Party and Rentals and no other animatronics of the entire franchise are within that company. Since that restaurant failed their is no reason to believe they were altered after the fact now that William could have gotten his motive to do the acts that he did
So Mike would be a "reluctant follower", a term that if I remember correctly comes from the casting list of Help Wanted 1 which again would parallel mike/vanessa
Hi interesting video! I just saw the balloon boy one before this. I have several things to mention, so might to two comments. Why can't Circus Baby's and FNAF2 be at the same time? The animatronics of the Toy version and Funtimes are way to similar. Think of the Sister Location game location as a warehouse where William developed all these new bots. He put what was ready and working in the building that FNAF 2 while he worked on the rest for Circus Baby's hence why they all look similiar (including Balloon boy - theres' your connection) the ones in the open restaurant end up being Safety / Killer bots while the ones he's working on are the Kidnapping / Murder bots, and he testing the first version out. The puppet would have to be the first one created and have at the location before FNAF 2 (not saying it's possessed yet and there is suppose to be more than one) The puppets were made (along with the Toy bots) because of the problems with the Original location and the missing children.
I have to say those crying child hidden video can cause ones mind to hurt, just trying to sus things out, causes too much info with no context.
So I"m basing this timeline rebuttal on facts shown and not theory. The first location 1983 and is very similiar to FNAF 1 game - now either with two additional characters, golden bonny and golden fred bear or theirs a sister location with the Goldens or the Golldens are in a competetors. The missing children MCI happens - william stuffs the dead kids in those four suits - (suits are possessed yet) - during this time theres a TV cartoon and figures made about Freddy and Friends cause its copyright 1983 (doesn't mean it had to premiere the day we the viewer see it). the original closes because of MCI but now the Goldens are working at pizza place that Afton works at and either the original suits are brought to this location or stored somewhere else. This would explain why the kids have Freddy and Friends hats on at a Goldens pizza place and why the Crying Child has toys (now these character could have been based off earlier events we don't know about like Fall Fest etc). While Afton is working at this pizza restaurant he is also developing the updated version of the original characters and circus characters. (Elizabeth could have died during this time - no proof). Anyways the Crying Child either happens upon the remains of the MCI in the old suits or Afton killed his fifth victim and stuffed him in a Golden Fred suit which we know the Crying Child saw when locked in the room with the tuff of hair sticking out of the headless suit. Then foxy bro and friends put crying child in Fred bears mouth - chomp - he goes to hostipal - in coma - this location shortly closes. Then FNAF 2 opens in 1987 in the same building as the original and closes 2 weeks after. Charlie get locked outside and is killed. The events in that game are just killer bots and ghosts (there are no possessed anamotronics here) - don't think the puppet is possessed by Charlie when the game was created but it would have to be in order of events to line up the way they are presented now. Because this is 1987 the security guard (Jeremy ? i think) can't be one of the kids who got Crying Child hurt - they wouldn't be old enough to hold a security position. Now FNAF 4 could happen next - but the Crying Child could have dead before FNAF2 or after ?? While FNAF 2 is closed the Charlie Puppet attaches the MCI souls to the old animatronics (maybe the golden fred too but they were killed at a different location, hence why it can teleport - no evidence for that one). Then the events of FNAF 1 opens with the original crew who are now possessed . Then willaim demantles the suits for remnant - the charlie puppet spirit helps the children, they all enact revenge on Afton - Springtrap! then etc etc
Thats what i get from the mini games - it is hard to make sense and wrap ones head around those Golden bots and Freddy masks ugh.
Couple questions for yah. Can Crying Child be Henry's kid, he did have a daughter too and he has the abitlity to fix CC too? Does Foxy Bro have to be Michael Afton, couldn't that be Henry third kid? Maybe Afton had just Elizabeth and Michael? Couldn't Afton have an accomplice? As the movie showed us, any for Afton kids don't have to be his biological kids, he could have just kidnapped them all, so theirs ages wouldn't matter in the story, cause he could steal any age at the same time? why can't anyone consider the yellow/mustard person in Midnight Motorist to be a woman?
I agree that JR's is an older location, however I believe the house is one of the MCI or fifth victim that was placed in Golden Fred. They were killed right before Charlie. This would make the line up fit that is given to us in Help Wanted 2 cemetary torch scene.
Sorry about all that, but you got me thinking. Thanks for sharing you thought and for making these videos
they can't be at the same *exact* time because William did not make the toy animatronics, Henry did, it's stated this, as henry implemented the criminal database ai in them in case William tried breaking back in, because at this point, it's believed Henry has already banned and kicked William out. (this does happen, just not confirmed exactly when)
so it could, in sense, be happening at more similar times, but at this point Freddy's and circus baby's were separate.
I personally believe SL comes before 2 by the dialogue line of what's believed to be Henry questioning Afton on the Funtime inner designs. I believe after this, henry fully kicks and bans Afton, and makes the toys with the database ai
hey thanks for replying, I'm curious where the information about Henry kicking William came from? I'm fairly new to all this "lore" stuff and have been piecing stuff together and trying to take what little there is just from the games. I understand the FNAF 2 and SL were separate but how were they separate in the games? - separately owned businesses?, separately companies? That CC bite of 19?? scene is very misleading and confusing because you have Golden animatronics and action figures and masks of the Toy characters. That would mean the Golden pizza restaurant - FNAF2 location - and Circus Babys were all open at the same time and one of those might have been a competitor. I would make sense but the original Four were stored at either Golden or FNAF2 (think the game says they were stored here or was that after FNAF2 Closed/) and William had to have access to hide those bodies. Just writing that made my head hurt there's just too much information in those CC scenes, that don't seem to fit. @@MartianCandies
Can we talk about how bad of an idea Circus Baby's Pizza World was? You open a restaurant with robots designed to kidnap children, it wouldn't have been long before people traced those disappearances back to the restaurant.
I wouldn't necessarily consider William to start off as a "family man", even if he wasn't planning child murder to begin with. From what we see in the novels, he's obsessive, neglectful, and shockingly petty. If Bunny Call does possess a parallel character for him, as I believe it does, he's part of a cycle of abuse where his own parents were neglectful, leading to him developing narcissistic tendencies of his own, which in turn causes problems for his children, with Elizabeth becoming another link in the cycle, both as a direct casualty of robot murder and developing violent, narcissistic tendencies as Scrap Baby (and potentially Circus Baby, depending on your interpretation of whether she is in control or not). The movie paints him as a controlling, abusive father as well.
25:40 BASED. We stan a smelly-robot truther.
27:10 It's really fun watching somewhat build a new train of theory thought in real-time.
31:50 Someone suggested that it's a Fredbear mask that was buried symbolically, and that Michael returns to it to pay respect to his brother (this was bundled in with a video that also suggested that said mask was in The Box, and that The Box was buried there with the mask inside).
35:28 Her room being empty doesn't mean she has to be dead. It just indicates that CC _has_ a sister (or maybe Mike has some non-gender-conforming interests). Elizabeth could be one of the kids CC talks to during the minigames.
PS: It's "for all intents and purposes", not "for all intensive purposes".
What if the DCI didn’t create remnant because William didn’t hide the bodies, meaning the ghosts were able to move on immediately without making more remnant?
I actually like the timeline at the end, another thing that sticks out to me but I just can't understand why is the BB thats in the closet in the movie. I feel like it has some connection to CBPW being planned to open before the 1985 fnaf 1, since if it was the 1993 fnaf 1 they wouldn't really be able to have it. I mean it is William's character after all. Though this is kinda contradicted by the help wanted games having the funtimes but like, those are based on "rumours" and the video games as well. At that point William was dead so its pretty much fine. So this kinda means that that cbear is before 1985 fnaf, which places it 1983-1985. I'm not sure what it means, but it also means that elizabeth must have died at 1983 the earliest and since CBPW might where fredbear's was her death is after CC's. Though I guess this wasn't needed since literally just the theory that cbpw was where fredbear's was places her death after CC. Sooo well I'm not sure where I am getting at here. Just more evidence for the timeline I guess. By the way, we never learn where CC's body is, at least not officially. Which is kinda more evidence for this timeline? William saying I will put you back together and making child capturing robots seems sketchy. Almost as if he was investigating possesion. Maybe he wanted to bring CC back as a robot? Or even as those babies we see in SL, they look awfully humanlike. Maybe William would make CC posess a robot, melt it and take his remnant and eject it into a robot human? (yes, robot kids, fnaf aint fnaf without robot kids.). Well it all went wrong since Elizabeth died too. But if this is the case why does William do the DCI? Idk maybe he is investigating how to make them act like they used to be before bringing CC and Elizabeth back. Well that's all I can think of since I keep getting off track and yapping. Literally started this post thinking about BB in the movie.
I find it strange that nobody considers that the concept of circus baby is much older than the funtimes as there are springlock equivalents even in the movie that could be as old as fallfest 1970. Considering how old the Mimic and the Mimic AI is it's possible that much of William's early soul works was based around his discoveries of the agony that was poured into the mimic. Could that mean William went straight to trying to kill kids to fix his son after the bite of 83? Why? How old is the Sister Location then? And if the Tangle when back into the Sister Location and grabbed all the remaining parts and remnant why is it still arguably loyal to William? I think If help wanted 1's secret Endo01's are to be believed to have been the remnant that was injected into Michal during Sister Location, then it's possible that he had every soul we know of Involved in the MCI in him besides Springtrap, the Marionette, and Golden Freddy in him at once. There's a chance that Michal knows more about what his Father has done than even William does himself. Michal caused the fnaf 3 fire and saw it didn't kill springtrap. Did he stop the fnaf 6 fire with the help of the remnant souls inside him? Why? Michal has the potential to know more about the the world than anybody else including the players so does he know something we do not? Is it possible that a soul can be in 2 or more places at once? What if the soul and remnant could both exist separately and function similarly? Could that mean that Michal needed his father's remains to track the rest of his soul parts? What became of the souls of the 2 Technician's that were killed In Sister Location? Why didn't the funtimes use THEIR bodies to escape? Who is Yenndo? Where is lolbit who is now cannon? And WHY do we NEVER actually see Baby's shell in the scooping room or the endoskeleton inside her shell when Michal get's the chip that is later found in the Brain of Helpy in Help Wanted 2? Why does Michal say he "put her back together"? And how is she "free now" as Michal claims? Isn't it weird that the voice of baby in Sister Location doesn't refer to itself as Elisabeth and talks about her as a separate person? Did nobody find it strange when "baby's voice" starts being passive aggressive to Michal and talking differently? "THEY didn't recognize me at first but then they thought I was you" Was the voice we heard that loves to play pretend actually the Mimic AI? My brain hurts.
26:25 sound live the voice line we get in that one trailer for security breach
Solution: The BV after bite becomes split into 2 parts. The main body that doctors try to save, and the piece that fell into the Golden Freddy suit, a frontal lobe seperated from the parts of the brain responsible for sight, memory, and inhibition
The beta content of the phrases that seems to come from william saying to vanesa and other person to do as he says or they will BURNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN, it feels so much as the william of the movie
Also I think Charlie’s name is Charlie Emily Schmidt and Henry Schmidt Emily always sounded like a strange last name it makes more sense to be a middle name and it connects to the movie.
if you want a simple answer to the timeline you have to look at the blob. most of the timeline can be answered with one question. Is molten MCI true
I've always been a big proponent of Vanessa from the movie being a mirror for Mike in the games.
"Due to the massive success, and, even more so, the unfortunate closing of Freddy Fazbear's Pizza, it was clear that the stage was set for another contender in children's entertainment. Unlike most robotic entertainment venues, our robotic entertainers are rented out during the day."
Based on this quote, and the fact FNAF 3's phone calls show Fazbear Entertainment refers to their "other locations" and their "Sister Location" as two separate things, I'd conclude this:
Freddys opens first, followed by Baby's while Freddy's is still open. After Baby's shuts down, the animatronics were kept in the bunker, finally being used as entertainers again decades later after "the unfortunate closing of Freddy Fazbear's Pizza"
The rental service had to have started after either the closing of the FNAF 1 Freddy's, the closing of the OG Freddy's, or the closing of the FNAF 2 Freddy's. OG Freddy's had multiple concurrent locations (confirmed in FNAF 3), and FNAF 2 Freddy's upon closing was already set to reopen on a small budget. Since HandUnit referred to "Freddy's" in singular when referring to the franchise as a whole, it's a very safe assumption that it was after FNAF 1 Freddy's closed, as they likely only had one location.