When I was an armorer in the Marines 77-88 all we had to remove and install barrels was aluminum blocks to clamp the barrels and never had a problem. People act like they are assembling 1000 yard 1MOA rifles Your not hand fitting anything you are assembling parts. Most off the rack AR15/M16s shoot better than the people shooting them.
That's because you were using parts that met the TDP spec..When you add parts from multiple different manufacturers that do no meet the TDP tolerances, that's when problems occur..Go on line and you will find endless videos of problem AR rifles..Sort stroking, jammed cases, clocked barrels, won't cycle, etc,etc....If it was as easy as you say, none of those videos would exist..There is a reason certain tools and techniques are used and Caleb is over simplifying that subject IMO..
I never could figure out why you couldn't just clamp the barrel. My first build used two 2x4s and some bolts for clamps. I had my girlfriend stand on the 2x4s to hold them steady. Now, I have all the "proper" tools.
@@09jisaac You can and that is how the military did it for years by using barrel clamps..The problem with that method, the device or the clam shell vice is it still torques the barrel in the upper and if too much torque is applied, it can shear the barrel index pin, damage the upper in the index notch or both..Many upper receivers have more play between the index pin and receiver notch than others and the barrel can clock using these methods..This can cause the bolt to hit the outer receiver extension lugs, damaging both..A receiver rod with a sail like the Mid West ind. or the 2Unioque will limit the movement and takes all the stress off of the barrel index pin and upper receiver notch..Look up sheared index pins or damaged uppers, there are a lot of them..
Well, some of us are building 1 MOA, 1,000 yard rifles... The beauty of the AR platform is you can do that if that is your thing., Now, regarding the barrel nut, clamping force is a product of the torque applied and the size (and thread pitch) of the fastener. The barrel nut is quite large and the torque spec wide, I think 30-80 ft-lbs. For the size of that fastener, both ends of that spec are low values. By comparison a 1/2" wheel stud is usually 100 ft-lbs or a little more. If the barrel nut torque was a spec for maximum clamping force it would be well over 200 ft-lbs. The takeaway is that the required clamping force is low and some of these specs were written just to tell people it has to be kind of tight but don't overdo it. The unfortunate result is some people crying because they torque to 80 ft-lbs and their gas tube is hitting a barrel nut tooth. The real method is you should torque to 30 ft-lbs, then tighten it a bit more to clear the gas tube if you need too. But some people will still be clutching their pearls and then you can say, fine, mark the tooth that is blocking the gas tube and dremel it off. You don't need all of the teeth and that will let you get your precious 80 ft-lbs. Now some people are crying because you said the D-word and you have to lap the receiver more or use barrel nut shims to get the gas tube to align at 80 ft-lbs. No matter where you stop on that journey, the result is the same. I know that but I do some unnecessary things. I prefer an upper receiver block that grabs the picatinny rail of the upper. I just think the upper rail has more material to efficiently transfer barrel nut torque through the receiver to the vice. I don't loosen fasteners with my torque wrench if I have my breaker bar handy. I don't use a 1/2" torque wrench that goes up to 200 ft-lbs to torque a 30 ft-lb barrel nut. Torque wrenches are most accurate in the upper half of their range so I go for an appropriately sized torque wrench that will be accurate around the value I'm shooting for. Lastly, I am going to clamp my barrel when I mess with my muzzle brake. I know it's not required but I might need to use more than 30 ft-lbs to clock my muzzle device on a crush washer, that might twist the barrel under the barrel nut and for that 1 MOA, 1,000 yard rifle, I don't want to mess with that after I have tightened it... With all of that said, I do have a reaction rod (no wing) and one of those Magpul things. I have tried them and I might use a reaction rod in an upper with the barrel extension pin notch wallowed out to keep everything straight (this might also be a reason to dremel a barrel nut tooth and go to 80 ft-lbs) but I usually use nice parts that just don't need anything special. I do like the reaction rod for tightening muzzle devices. It's a balance of putting in a minimal effort over what is absolutely necessary without convincing myself that my way is the only way or that it's better. It is just the way I do it because doing it the same every time helps me avoid stupid mistakes and a method that works on a 1 MOA, 1,000 yard rifle is going to work on a mag-dump in to garbage rifle too.
Seriously though, the ones you need to worry about are the ones that let you know they identify as an indexing pin. They tend to be extra sensitive and easily broken.
As a guy that MAKES gas blocks, the gap is ONLY necessary if the gas block is made wrong! On a Mil spec barrel, the gas hole is .395 "+/- .005" When we intelligently designed our gas blocks we made the hole in the block the EXACT same distance from the shoulder as the gas hole in the barrel. problem solved through Engineering and COMMON SENSE!
I just installed one and because of the geniuses online I used a compressor to test it. You’re supposed to go to the shoulder on Milspec barrels but It doesn’t really matter because it’s huge. I went all the way to the shoulder. It’s only for barrels made for hand guards. JP Enterprises actually has it in their instructions. They make excellent gas blocks
It's a qc thing. Most of em are spot on and hold spec for a long time, but every now and again they're waaaaaaaaay off. That's something that's caught in better name brands more often but also why hf is cheaper.
Hey Caleb, when I was a mechanic YEARS ago I had a Snap-On torque wrench, not a cheapy, and I used it to torque and remove, sometimes, 3 to 5 times a week. I showed the Dealer that my wrench would dial down, mechanical adjustment, about 3 lbs below 0. He said that would take all the tension off the spring as it is in compression when in use torquing a nut/bolt. So that is how I stored it and if I needed the length to take something off that is where I set it. Then the only action was the 'click'. And I never had a issue with torque values changing. SO go for it and for all you out there, shop worrying and over thinking this stuff. Next you will worry about over torquing your 1/2 inch box end wrench.
You're absolutely right.I still have my dad's torque range from 50 years, and it works fine. And I used it for another forty years working on transmissions But that's the way I store it. Take the pressure off the spring, all of them.
By using a reaction rod you are putting a lot more pressure on the index pin because the reciever is freely trying to turn into the index pin while torquing the barrel nut. Upper threads HAVE been torn through just by cranking off a muzzle device while the barrel nut was loose. And those are only on with about half the torque of the barrel nut.
Which is why you don't use a reaction rod for barrel nuts, use a MI-URR or a Botach 'Double Action Rod'. The latter is now a $50 tool which is less than 1/4 the price of the Gieslee and less than 1/2 the URR, is there really a reason not to get one?
In all my years, I recall 3 'excessive stress failures' of M16-family weapons: -Brand new A4 during bayonet training, cracked the receiver extension off at the receiver. -M4 run over by a HMMWV. Didn't 'fail' per se, bent the barrel just before the D-ring and also the buffer tube -buffer tube bent in a Stryker ramp I have faith in the barrel/upper interface to be plenty resilient against Infantrymen. The buffer tube on the other hand...
Can confirm that Torque Wrenches are a lot tougher than people believe. Bought my wrench 16 years ago, from Harbor Freight at that, and never knew until a year ago that you are supposed to not loosen with them and that you are supposed to lower the torque setting to relieve tension. I had always stored my wrench at 90 ft lbs! Tested it and it's accurate within 2.5%, which very well might have been the standard deviation of it when brand new.
Now I'm a professional mechanic for a multi billion dollar corporation, so I understand we may not be the norm, but, our torque wrenches are calibrated 4 times a year. Again, probably for liability, but they get shipped off very 3 months and we get new ones in return (well, recalibrated ones).
It's not that you shouldn't ever loosen fasteners with a torque wrench. That's not the issue. The issue is when you go over the max torque spec for that specific tool. Most have a reverse gear for left handed fasteners. But if you use it as a breaker bar and go over the max rating, it can damage the spring and cause calibration issues. But they neglected to say that part. Instead, they make it sound like you can just loosen anything without concern. Which simply isn't true.
@@Ratkill9000 straight extension id say are negligible and wouldn’t even worry about it. Now something like crows foot or dog bone id try my best to get it 90* from the head of the wrench. Because adding length does change torque.
@@Ratkill9000The reason that’s a thing using extensions, especially longer extensions, as well as swivels for that matter, is because they flex and people think that that flex can, will and does alter the torque amount. Which it doesn’t.
@@AmesArsenal I saw a video where they tested the difference with a crows foot, and in regards to barrel nuts, the amount were not high enough to be any meaningful difference, as the torque specs are so wide that its not really an issue. For other things it might be more important.
Honestly, everybody nowadays is becoming incredibly educated. Just a matter of whether or not they are an asshole about their opinion or whether they are willing to be corrected.
I’ve put 6 uppers together with the cheaper upper vice block and never had any issues. Although a few times I was nervous about torquing the barrel nut but lo and behold everything was just fine. Never sheared an index pin or bent the upper.
Good info guys. Sometimes I don't agree with your content, but you guys hit the nail on the head today. This stuff can be done different ways. The main thing is the AR works without fail, when you are done.. I build mine for precision. I'll do extra things like bed the barrel to the receiver. Also, the barrel nut has a broad range/spectrum for torque. You can do it with a crescent wrench, tighten the damn thing and be good enough. If you are familiar with what torque values are. Also, when installing a barrel device on the barrel, I always throw the barrel in a vise. That way there is absolutely no torque on the receiver. It may not be necessary, but it sure does help when taking a muzzle device off, that has been torqued on too tight!! Keep it easy, keep it simple. No need to overthink this stuff...
People really don't understand that parts and tools are consumable, everything will eventually wear out, but when it does, you just buy another one or replace a part
When you run a business, you try to keep costs down and profits up. You can’t do that by misusing and breaking your tools, it will put you out of business.
I use a Craftsman torque wrench I received in the late '70's. I did not use it much in Automotive work. Dug it out when I started building AR's. it is still accurate. Almost 50 years. I was taught to take care of my tools. I have a set of pliers that my father had before I was born. Keep up the good work. Enjoy your videos. Caleb, don't change your hair. You do you!
These videos are gold.....absolute GOLD i tell you!!!! I love how you guys delve into the details of the "whys," "hows", and "why nots" of the AR15 build. Please keep doing informative videos like these!!!!
I won’t say you are wrong, but if Chad from the American rifle channel suggest that you use something I usually listen to him. The MI tool is the best choice. The device is amazing but very expensive
My Savage MSR barrel nut was so tight from the factory. I destroyed my upper removing the nut. There was no locktite or rockset once I cut it off. I heated it. And steamed it. I broke my armorers wrench first. Then upper twisted after i got a better tool and a breaker bar. I had it in a vise block that had two pins. Ripped the uppers receivers pin block. So I just tighter the upper in the vise. I was at a point of no return. That’s when it twisted.
Gas block alignment certainly does matter with some gas blocks. Buddy built his first AR and it wouldn't run at all, we moved the block off of the shoulder and suddenly it ran with no issues.
I love this video! Besides guns, I work on cars, bikes and airplanes. They’re all just machines. Nothing magical about them. My favorite was the torque wrench. Why DID they put the reverse switch on them, lol! Those folks would probably pass out watching me use one as a breaker bar! The key is to buy a good quality one so you can trust the cal! Keep up the good work!
Every ar I’ve built has been on one of those blocks that holds the pins and I will say I did accidentally forget to pin the front one time I installed a barrel and I snapped off the rear takedown pin hole, but other than that never had a problem, I also keep the upper in that jig to install the muzzle device, I agree you guys are very good when it comes to information ! Keep it up !!!
If you use a reaction rod that only grabs the barrel extension you will have issues with the index pin getting smooshed and the upper receiver index pin slow getting enlarged. You just need something that holds the upper itself, not just the barrel extension.
Wow!! As a novice to the AR world, you have debunked myths about "problems" I never even would have though of. Maybe I don't worry enough.😉 Here's a couple of my obsevations: Aluminum Oxide is tougher than Aluminum. You can use Aluminum Oxide sandpaper on Aluminum, it's how they clean up castings. You said a torque wrench doesn’t know which way it's going. I have one that does. It was my Dad's, and probably made in the early 60's, maybe before then. It's still in it's steel case, though most of the paint has worn off the outside. It measures torque for clockwise wise rotation. When you flip the lever for counterclockwise rotation, it "locks up/out" the torque mechanism, and behaves like any other ratchet. You can break loose any rusty nut or bolt you want. It does mean it cannot do LH threads, which is occasionally a pain in the A$$. 😉 I am learning a lot, keep up the good work! 👍
Now hold on a minute! I bought not 1 but 2 reaction rods from Brownells - one for an AR-15 and another for a 308-AR. I want a refund since they are totally unnecessary according to Caleb here! 😜
@@CalebSavant I know that 😝 That device you demonstrated is interesting. However, I have the reaction rods and will continue using them. Especially for installing and removing muzzle devices because they secure the barrel itself, not the receiver the barrel is attached to. I “get” your point that if the torque needed to remove a muzzle device is enough to damage the receiver we have bigger problems.
watched enough School of the American Rifle videos to actually agree that using a proper reaction rod for barrel torques, while not 100% required, is highly recommended. it's a one time purchase, may as well play it safe.
Yep. Agree with previous commentor.... I have at least 2 that I've put together that wat with over 2 k rounds... no issue whatsoever. That said, I did "ding" a brass deflector with the vise jaw due to inattention using those..... but completely my fault. I like the magpul bev block. As it's easier to set up in my opinion. About $30 when on sale. And again, that rod they showed is easier to set up and clamp down, not necessarily superior for quality of build.
I scooped up a real avid reaction rod for cheap and there's no wing. It works great and I've had no issues with it. I also have a cheap plastic vice block that clamps around the whole upper receiver but I rarely use it. Got a harbor freight torque wrench as well as a wheeler fat wrench and a tapco AR wrench that are all affordable budget tools that get the job done. Great video
When tightening the barrel nut just put the upper in the vise sideways, with some softer material in the jaws to protect the Picatinny rail and bottom of the receiver, rather than using some jig which relies on the "feet" that the takedown and pivot pins pass through to carry that torque. Also, if you're concerned about this, rather than buying some expensive "reaction rod" to install muzzle devices, just take the rail off and put the barrel in a V-block in the vise when installing the muzzle device. ZERO torque is applied to the upper this way.
The reaction rod with a sail will keep the barrel straight compared to many other clam shell types..Many AR uppers are not made to spec or are on the outer end of the spec, add a wide index slots and the barrel index pin (will) move side to side while torquing the barrel nut..This can cause the barrel to clock enough in the upper to cause misalignment between the bolt and barrel extension..I have seen a lot of home made AR's where the bolt hits the barrel extension while closing the bolt, causing peening on the out side of the bolt..I have fixed many of these clocked barrels using the Mid West reaction rod or the 2Unique reaction rod ..The reaction rod with a sail will also prevent damage to the uppers index slot or breaking the barrel index pin if too much torque is used..The 2Unique reaction rod uses wider lugs and a thinner sail compared to the Mid West URR that has narrower lugs with a wider sail..
I've been watching lots of these videos, both Brownells and a bunch from Chad at SOTAR, while I consider building (vs buying) my next AR... I'll probably buy another one for now, maybe separate upper/ lower. But I am learning a lot about what to look for, and if I do decide to swap parts/ build, i feel like I have a good knowledge base to do so, from these videos :)
I just assembled my 1st AR10 last week. I used aero precision M5 receiver set & handguard. A Faxon 18" big gunner barrel with rifle length gas system & geissle SSA-E X trigger. I also used a non adjustable low pro gas block. I haven't had any issues but would you recommend an adjustable gas block?? I'll be using this rifle mostly for deer, hogs & some range fun of course.
Just my 2 cents: I'd install an adjustable gas block "just in case", as in better to have it.... If you want to add a suppressor, it'd be good to have that adjustment capability.
I’ve got an old DPMS block that fits into the upper and pins on. Triple digit uppers have been assembled on that thing over the last 20 plus years. No issues at all.
Im glad you addressed the reaction rod myth...i thought i need to run out and get a new widget....Im sure if Mr Stoner thought the index pin and 6 x 1.25in worth of threads ( some one get me the linear ft on that please) was insufficient, im sure he would had made something that was sufficient.
It is not a myth and he proved nothing..The reaction rod with a sail prevents the barrel from clocking in the upper unlike other methods..This is how we fix clocked barrels..
with cheap handguards the barrel nut will get out of position and can not be fixed leaving the handguard canted. if you do not clamp the barrel . cough bca owners are aware of this cough cough. love the videos
The reaction rod is ideally used without the upper support bar for the intention of exclusively holding the barrel while working on the muzzle end. There's absolutely enough play to keep the barrel from engaging the tool, unless you put some thin blue painters tape around the teeth ;) just don't run it along the side of the upper support bar or you could gouge the upper inside .. You can also clamp the upper to a table top on the corner or use some blocks and clamps.. Gas block alignment can be found turning the block over, and use painters tape to mark depth, then level the block and upper on a flat "glass" table top (free info for the betterment of man)
Love these videos. I totally agree, in general, about removing things with a torque wrench. I would caution against using a torque wrench when listening auto parts that may have untold high torque, I think that's where the people get confused. They were told in shop class not to loosen with one and they took it as gospel.
This might be the craziest thing you’ve ever heard but I check all my gas tube alignments by sucking air through the gas tube after I have tightened the set screws on the gas block. I’ve done it enough to know exactly where to set my adjustable gas blocks to shoot 300 blackout subsonic rounds.
I have heard that the reason your torque wrench has a reverse switch is so it can be used in the southern hemisphere. Down there you tighten bolts the opposite direction. Using the reversing lever in North America will throw your spring drozilator out of whack.
If you want a really good torque wrench, like for people who use them in a professional context and you're using it all the time, DeWalt makes a very nice digital one. It's available in various drives. You definitely can loosen/tighten lefty fasteners with a torque wrench btw. If you weren't supposed to do that, the manufacturer wouldn't install a knob to reverse the torque.
The reaction rod, a silly name. Having used one makes assembly very easy. During torquing you can see the receiver flex. Several uppers done around same time and all flexed. So sure, you could torque without a reaction rod. It’s a good practice to use one. We saw near no flex, level the rod in the vise and go. I assembled my first lower with a few Allen wrenches, upper pre-assembled. So to throw together an upper with minimal tools is possible. Tightening the barrel nut adds a challenge. If you from the Navy probably can do it without a torque wrench… Oh if you vape, it’s a good way to test if gas block is aligned or anything can get through. It was cool to see. Cherry smell lasted till first few shots. Regarding the torque wrenches, all the trainings I get. Every one of them specifically say do not use it to break a bolt or nut off. Even engineering explanations have very good reasons. It’s not just about the spring in the wrench. I’ve seen damage occur on a few systems of others just cranking on the wrench. It can happen, example noted one guy had to recheck up to 5 systems. On the spot my wrench was able to tighten more while the later just clicked each time. Mine from cal was good, theirs was not from the incident. But you’re not dealing with rotating mass like our stuff. Things fly off due to damaged bolts by torque or not right spec reached.
Torque wrench calibration is generally +/- 4% in Clockwise, +/- 6% Counter Clockwise. Ive calibrated many many. Also who would of ever give it a thought to hold the receiver to tighten the barrel nut? Ive always held the barrel with hardwood blocks.
The torque wrench issue when loosening is exceeding the maximum allowable torque. Loosening usually requires more torque than setting. So if you're at the top of the torque range (example, using a 100ftlb wrench to loosen a barrel nut set to 80) you can damage the internals by exceeding the max setting. That said, if you set the wrench to it's max and stop using it if there is a click you'll be ok.
My first upper receiver holding tool is the clamshell type that clamps in the vise. I was removing parts to replace my handguard with a modern handguard for floating barrels. The barrel nut had a little bit of galvonic reaction to it which is corrosion. And it's normal to have a teeny bit between steel and aluminum. And it was really tight trying to get it free and I watch my upper receiver twisting a little bit had me scared That I was going to permanently twist my upper receiver and warp it. So I shifted off to using a reaction rod. I still have the clamshell style and it's great for building new receivers with new barrels and nuts. But if I have to put some real torque on something I'm using that reaction. Rod.
The torque wrench wouldn't have the option to knuckle that way if it wasn't designed to work for left hand threaded fasteners. That's always been my argument as well when someone says you shouldn't use them to loosen things. I could understand that argument for in-lb torque wrenches, maybe, but not ft-lb torque wrenches
I work on aircraft. A 737 has a 150 FT/LB final torque on the axle nut. A 3/4 drive torque wrench is used to break it loose routinely and the torque wrenches withstand it no problem. A recreational user assembling gun parts will not wear out their torque wrench breaking a few barrel nuts with one.
As long as you don't exceed the torque wrench specs, you can loosen all day long. Sometimes you just don't know how tight something is though. Loosening with a breaker bar is the best way to be sure. Every toolbox should have a breaker bar.
Not to throw shade, genuine question based in what theory I have; Years ago, I saw a SOTAR video where it was clearly stated you needed a reaction rod, because there's a decent chance of shearing the pin on the extension. I thought this was odd because the modulus on the pin was WAY more stout than an aluminum thread. Has anyone ever seen it? Crazier stuff happens, so I assume it's been seen. I also thought saying it would kill your barrel if it happened was odd, too. Couldn't you drill the pin out and replace with a new extension? Even boring a few thousandths over in the barrel and new extension being an option. Or is there a pressure issue?
You did it. You addressed all those comments from "The Device" video that said it was over priced and didn't do as good of a job as the MI reaction rod. So glad you came through. I am no expert but I have built a few dozen AR's and I just purchased the Lite Device and man I love it. The ol reaction rod will probably be going on tacswap. It is the beefiest and stoutest way to hold the upper reciever period.
Yeah, torque wrenches can pretty much handle the normal use you described. In theory, in extremely precise applications, a torque wrench may be calibrated slightly differently going one way vs the other. It doesn't really cause damage using it the other direction, just may be very slightly off if that's not the direction in which it was calibrated. Still doesn't matter for the vast majority of applications, including pretty much anything you'd be doing at home.
Ive been building for 10 yrs now...but, these were questions i had as a noob. The new guys are so lucky to have vids like these. (I started building when there were actually yt vids showing u how to build)
When being tightened, once the lugs of the reaction rod contact the barrel extension engage, there is no more stress on the pin.......kicker.....AS LONG AS the slack in the pin and slot is less than the barrel extension and lugs. The most value a reaction rod has is to prevent clocking of a barrel with a FSB.
I use the same torque wrench for everything that needs torqued. Gas block, if the mark the block and port for alignment they will know exactly how far against the shoulder it should be. How about something important... Like getting aluma-hyde back on the shelves.
I worked on thousands of M16A1s in the army and never heard of a reaction rod until 35+ years after I got out. We had aluminum vise jaws that fit around the barrel and when the barrel started to turn, we grabbed a junk barrel out of the garbage can and stuck it through the front sight base. Then we either had someone hold onto the junk barrel, or just let the one in the vise turn until the the junk hit the workbench and it couldn't turn any farther. Usually the latter. Sometimes we had to use extreme amounts of force to loosen barrels, and even a breaker bar wasn't enough if someone didn't properly torque and grease the barrel the last time it was installed. That's why you should never use a torque wrench or ratchet wrench to break loose a tight nut of any kind, whether it's a barrel nut or a lug nut. Sometimes you need to slip a pipe over your breaker bar for extra leverage, and that would be enough to destroy a torque wrench. Something you just tightened within the limits of your torque wrench can be loosened with it no problem, but I still use a breaker bar to loosen everything because I think it's a bad habit to get into. One time I had to change an upper receiver but the barrel was still good, and they were seized together because someone didn't coat the threads with molybdenum disulfide grease like they were supposed to. I used a big piece of steel pipe to beat the upper off of the barrel. Things like that are why I got into a disagreement on TH-cam with someone at a gun company who just puts a bit of oil on the threads of the upper and torques the nut down. ONE TIME. We always torqued them down, loosened them, torqued them down, loosened them,and torqued them down again because the threads on a new upper receiver will stretch when you tighten the barrel nut. Not to mention some of the anodizing grinding down. The nut actually tightens down farther when you reapply the same amount of torque again the third time, when compared to the first. If your barrel gets hot enough, maybe because you went "full semi-automatic" 😉and did several mag dumps, oil can burn off but the metal particles in moly grease are like a thin plating that isn't going anywhere.
torque test channel just did a video on torque wrenches. iirc, most all myths were bs except for one. you need to dial the torque down to zero to store it.
6-10-2024, 8:08AM, PST : When not using my torque wrenches, either for firearms or for automotive use, I always set them to zero. There won't be any standing pressure on the wrench/spring when not in use. Unless you're doing something stupid, a torque wrench might outlive you calibration wise. LOL. Outstanding instructional info information. 🐢 🤔 🐢 😲 🐢 😀
You mean I don't need to make rocket science out of it. I still have an early build I put together. It looks like a XM177. It was the first rifle all three of my kids shot. The oldest one is 43. There were only very basic tools available then. Great video. Thanks guys.
Working in automotive and motorbikes section in Italy and being self taught mechanic I heard this thing about torque wrenches a lot. I honestly think about that the myth come from the idea of prolungating life of a costy tool...if u use it only to torque to spec u definetly use it 1/2 of the times so it can be logic....but than not using it for the opposite if u have to work on something specific it is just stupid...as u perfectly said they have a switch so that's the best clue that it can be used reverse mode
Anti seize grease when installing the buffer tube/castle nut? Some say yes, others say not needed. I'm building my first AR and already completed the lower with NO grease. Do I take it apart and add it now?
So what about the Brownell's AR-15/M16 Upper Receiver Action Block! I have one similar to this and have used it to replace barrels and muzzle devices without issue.
Love all the videos and especially these lol. Such good info and even better when busting some less than stellar critical thinking skill. Keep it all comin and my only request is maybe what is the timeline on some more alumahyde restocks??? Special FDE...been waitn and rechecked last nite to make sure i didnt miss an email but still out? Yall havent discontinued it i hope to God lol hopin maybe just at worst a revamping?? Its too good not to keep it available but any way thank for all both of you do and ill be patiently waiting for more lol
If you loosen a faster that exceeds the torque wrench spec, you will fuck up your torque wrench. The warning isn't there for thread seasoning. Its there so you don't try to loosen your lug nuts that were tightend to 250 with an impact. Or try to break a rusted siezed up ass bolt
Not sure if you already covered it but BCG coatings have been making my head spin lately. What I keep hearing lately is Nickel Boron is overrated and Chrome is the best.
Actually, watch the "school of the American rifle" channel about this topic. Great in depth video. Basically. The best bcg was chrome plated bolt channel, phosphate or other coating on the carrier outside. Problem with nickel boron is that it's thinner than chrome, so when used in the bolt channel, it could allow a slight bit of slop due to thinner coating. The coating itself didn't seem to be the issue. I think certain coatings have to be done to the entire bcg, others like phosphate, can allow chrome in the channel. He also went in to some manufacturers seeming to mill the channel to accommodate the thinner coatings, and they seemed to spec fine. Fascinating topic, and the guy keeps a relatively complex topic fairly simple.
Pretty sure I’ve used my torque wrench as a hammer a few times here now. Still does that “clicking” thing. I mean, I’ve never calibrated it. But my right arm is pretty darn close to perfect…except that one time I bashed my finger…using it as a hammer!
You can ruin a torque wrench by putting more torque on it than it’s set for or rated for. The head of a torque wrench swivels on a pin, once you hear the click you need to stop. I was taught that in auto shop in high school and motorcycle school in college, and have seen wrenches with the pins, heads broken and sides smashed down. Just try torquing down a bolt that requires 120 ft lb with a 50 ft lb rated torque wrench and see what happens, it’s not a breaker bar.
@@TheArmamentShop FAL Imbel kit with the receiver stub still on the barrel. I don’t know what torque specs Imbel used but I have had to use a cut off wheel, hammer and chisel to split the receiver stub to get it off. Steel receivers with threaded barrels sometimes require high torque to time the barrel within specs, without shaving the barrel shoulder.
The reaction rod is nonsense. Even with its use, the friction between the barrel nut and receiver threads will apply torque to the receiver which forces it against the barrel index pin.
The classic breaker bar-torque wrench adage is good advice, but not for this application. I also have always been told to not use a torque wrench as a breaker bar, but I think the real damage there is more akin to using a 3/8 breaker bar with a 90 ft-lb maximum to take off seized 150 ft-lb lug nuts. More using it for its long handle for maximum breaking force rather than just because it's a close-by tool. I would be shocked if any AR torque specs could damage a 3/8, even some 1/4 in. ones. People get hung up on things and don't consider the application. You can break anything if you try hard enough, but if you use it reasonably it's going to be fine; coming from a mechanical engineer.
![เจ็บที่ยังฮัก - ม่อน วรวิทย์ [ Official Mv ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KALIGSRSjFs/mqdefault.jpg)
When I was an armorer in the Marines 77-88 all we had to remove and install barrels was aluminum blocks to clamp the barrels and never had a problem. People act like they are assembling 1000 yard 1MOA rifles Your not hand fitting anything you are assembling parts. Most off the rack AR15/M16s shoot better than the people shooting them.
That's because you were using parts that met the TDP spec..When you add parts from multiple different manufacturers that do no meet the TDP tolerances, that's when problems occur..Go on line and you will find endless videos of problem AR rifles..Sort stroking, jammed cases, clocked barrels, won't cycle, etc,etc....If it was as easy as you say, none of those videos would exist..There is a reason certain tools and techniques are used and Caleb is over simplifying that subject IMO..
I never could figure out why you couldn't just clamp the barrel. My first build used two 2x4s and some bolts for clamps. I had my girlfriend stand on the 2x4s to hold them steady.
Now, I have all the "proper" tools.
@@09jisaac You can and that is how the military did it for years by using barrel clamps..The problem with that method, the device or the clam shell vice is it still torques the barrel in the upper and if too much torque is applied, it can shear the barrel index pin, damage the upper in the index notch or both..Many upper receivers have more play between the index pin and receiver notch than others and the barrel can clock using these methods..This can cause the bolt to hit the outer receiver extension lugs, damaging both..A receiver rod with a sail like the Mid West ind. or the 2Unioque will limit the movement and takes all the stress off of the barrel index pin and upper receiver notch..Look up sheared index pins or damaged uppers, there are a lot of them..
Well, some of us are building 1 MOA, 1,000 yard rifles...
The beauty of the AR platform is you can do that if that is your thing.,
Now, regarding the barrel nut, clamping force is a product of the torque applied and the size (and thread pitch) of the fastener. The barrel nut is quite large and the torque spec wide, I think 30-80 ft-lbs. For the size of that fastener, both ends of that spec are low values. By comparison a 1/2" wheel stud is usually 100 ft-lbs or a little more. If the barrel nut torque was a spec for maximum clamping force it would be well over 200 ft-lbs.
The takeaway is that the required clamping force is low and some of these specs were written just to tell people it has to be kind of tight but don't overdo it.
The unfortunate result is some people crying because they torque to 80 ft-lbs and their gas tube is hitting a barrel nut tooth.
The real method is you should torque to 30 ft-lbs, then tighten it a bit more to clear the gas tube if you need too.
But some people will still be clutching their pearls and then you can say, fine, mark the tooth that is blocking the gas tube and dremel it off. You don't need all of the teeth and that will let you get your precious 80 ft-lbs.
Now some people are crying because you said the D-word and you have to lap the receiver more or use barrel nut shims to get the gas tube to align at 80 ft-lbs.
No matter where you stop on that journey, the result is the same.
I know that but I do some unnecessary things. I prefer an upper receiver block that grabs the picatinny rail of the upper. I just think the upper rail has more material to efficiently transfer barrel nut torque through the receiver to the vice. I don't loosen fasteners with my torque wrench if I have my breaker bar handy. I don't use a 1/2" torque wrench that goes up to 200 ft-lbs to torque a 30 ft-lb barrel nut. Torque wrenches are most accurate in the upper half of their range so I go for an appropriately sized torque wrench that will be accurate around the value I'm shooting for.
Lastly, I am going to clamp my barrel when I mess with my muzzle brake. I know it's not required but I might need to use more than 30 ft-lbs to clock my muzzle device on a crush washer, that might twist the barrel under the barrel nut and for that 1 MOA, 1,000 yard rifle, I don't want to mess with that after I have tightened it...
With all of that said, I do have a reaction rod (no wing) and one of those Magpul things. I have tried them and I might use a reaction rod in an upper with the barrel extension pin notch wallowed out to keep everything straight (this might also be a reason to dremel a barrel nut tooth and go to 80 ft-lbs) but I usually use nice parts that just don't need anything special. I do like the reaction rod for tightening muzzle devices.
It's a balance of putting in a minimal effort over what is absolutely necessary without convincing myself that my way is the only way or that it's better. It is just the way I do it because doing it the same every time helps me avoid stupid mistakes and a method that works on a 1 MOA, 1,000 yard rifle is going to work on a mag-dump in to garbage rifle too.
Well said. @@beardoe6874
The indexing pin is in fact very sensitive, but only emotionally.
Make sure to give it lots of positive affirmation and sing it a little song too.
Seriously though, the ones you need to worry about are the ones that let you know they identify as an indexing pin. They tend to be extra sensitive and easily broken.
You guys crack me up!! 😂😅
Could you recommend a song for assembly?
Soft kitty, warm kitty, little ball of fur...
Baby shark is my go-to
As a guy that MAKES gas blocks, the gap is ONLY necessary if the gas block is made wrong! On a Mil spec barrel, the gas hole is .395 "+/- .005" When we intelligently designed our gas blocks we made the hole in the block the EXACT same distance from the shoulder as the gas hole in the barrel. problem solved through Engineering and COMMON SENSE!
I just installed one and because of the geniuses online I used a compressor to test it. You’re supposed to go to the shoulder on Milspec barrels but It doesn’t really matter because it’s huge. I went all the way to the shoulder. It’s only for barrels made for hand guards. JP Enterprises actually has it in their instructions. They make excellent gas blocks
The chemistry between these two is great.
Shots fired at my harbor freight torque wrench 😂
I was thinking the same thing.
You get what you pay for, 😂😂😂
It's a qc thing. Most of em are spot on and hold spec for a long time, but every now and again they're waaaaaaaaay off. That's something that's caught in better name brands more often but also why hf is cheaper.
you need a torque wrench for a barrel nut? lmao!
I have a balance bar wrench that I use to check calibration and my Harbor freight torque wrenches are near perfect
Hey Caleb, when I was a mechanic YEARS ago I had a Snap-On torque wrench, not a cheapy, and I used it to torque and remove, sometimes, 3 to 5 times a week. I showed the Dealer that my wrench would dial down, mechanical adjustment, about 3 lbs below 0. He said that would take all the tension off the spring as it is in compression when in use torquing a nut/bolt. So that is how I stored it and if I needed the length to take something off that is where I set it. Then the only action was the 'click'. And I never had a issue with torque values changing. SO go for it and for all you out there, shop worrying and over thinking this stuff. Next you will worry about over torquing your 1/2 inch box end wrench.
You're absolutely right.I still have my dad's torque range from 50 years, and it works fine. And I used it for another forty years working on transmissions But that's the way I store it. Take the pressure off the spring, all of them.
By using a reaction rod you are putting a lot more pressure on the index pin because the reciever is freely trying to turn into the index pin while torquing the barrel nut. Upper threads HAVE been torn through just by cranking off a muzzle device while the barrel nut was loose. And those are only on with about half the torque of the barrel nut.
Which is why you don't use a reaction rod for barrel nuts, use a MI-URR or a Botach 'Double Action Rod'. The latter is now a $50 tool which is less than 1/4 the price of the Gieslee and less than 1/2 the URR, is there really a reason not to get one?
In all my years, I recall 3 'excessive stress failures' of M16-family weapons:
-Brand new A4 during bayonet training, cracked the receiver extension off at the receiver.
-M4 run over by a HMMWV. Didn't 'fail' per se, bent the barrel just before the D-ring and also the buffer tube
-buffer tube bent in a Stryker ramp
I have faith in the barrel/upper interface to be plenty resilient against Infantrymen.
The buffer tube on the other hand...
I always imagined the buffer system to be the most vulnerable
@@halogod0298 Just what I'd seen.
Also edit OP: just reread the first point, the A4 doesn't have a castle nut, just a one piece extension.
Can confirm that Torque Wrenches are a lot tougher than people believe. Bought my wrench 16 years ago, from Harbor Freight at that, and never knew until a year ago that you are supposed to not loosen with them and that you are supposed to lower the torque setting to relieve tension. I had always stored my wrench at 90 ft lbs! Tested it and it's accurate within 2.5%, which very well might have been the standard deviation of it when brand new.
Now this is some good data! Leaves me with a question, how many people check calibration?
Now I'm a professional mechanic for a multi billion dollar corporation, so I understand we may not be the norm, but, our torque wrenches are calibrated 4 times a year. Again, probably for liability, but they get shipped off very 3 months and we get new ones in return (well, recalibrated ones).
It's not that you shouldn't ever loosen fasteners with a torque wrench. That's not the issue. The issue is when you go over the max torque spec for that specific tool. Most have a reverse gear for left handed fasteners. But if you use it as a breaker bar and go over the max rating, it can damage the spring and cause calibration issues. But they neglected to say that part. Instead, they make it sound like you can just loosen anything without concern. Which simply isn't true.
Yeah, I think those old rules more applied to older wrenches
Torque wrenches in general have to be the tool with the most myths around them.
+1. Guys mixing up inch Pounds with Foot Pounds.
That and using extensions lessen the amount of applied torque. Its BS.
@@Ratkill9000 straight extension id say are negligible and wouldn’t even worry about it. Now something like crows foot or dog bone id try my best to get it 90* from the head of the wrench. Because adding length does change torque.
@@Ratkill9000The reason that’s a thing using extensions, especially longer extensions, as well as swivels for that matter, is because they flex and people think that that flex can, will and does alter the torque amount. Which it doesn’t.
@@AmesArsenal I saw a video where they tested the difference with a crows foot, and in regards to barrel nuts, the amount were not high enough to be any meaningful difference, as the torque specs are so wide that its not really an issue. For other things it might be more important.
"Don't over think it." Is some of the best advice I ever received.
As oppose to under thinking it??
If it disassembles at the range, you might need to improve your process.
You mean like these guys are? People recommending the URR (and similar), aren't the ones overthinking the interaction of the tools and parts.
Everyone on the internet thinks they’re an expert, and they’re cocky about it too.
Don't forget TH-cam Certified Armorers too.
Honestly, everybody nowadays is becoming incredibly educated. Just a matter of whether or not they are an asshole about their opinion or whether they are willing to be corrected.
@@liggerstuxin1 so true.
You don't know what you're talking about.
You sure about that?
I’ve put 6 uppers together with the cheaper upper vice block and never had any issues. Although a few times I was nervous about torquing the barrel nut but lo and behold everything was just fine. Never sheared an index pin or bent the upper.
Good info guys. Sometimes I don't agree with your content, but you guys hit the nail on the head today. This stuff can be done different ways. The main thing is the AR works without fail, when you are done.. I build mine for precision. I'll do extra things like bed the barrel to the receiver. Also, the barrel nut has a broad range/spectrum for torque. You can do it with a crescent wrench, tighten the damn thing and be good enough. If you are familiar with what torque values are. Also, when installing a barrel device on the barrel, I always throw the barrel in a vise. That way there is absolutely no torque on the receiver. It may not be necessary, but it sure does help when taking a muzzle device off, that has been torqued on too tight!! Keep it easy, keep it simple. No need to overthink this stuff...
i recognize that torque wrench lol glad to see you use high quality tools i use too
People really don't understand that parts and tools are consumable, everything will eventually wear out, but when it does, you just buy another one or replace a part
Yup. Well said. People spend ots on a barrel and then can't afford ammo.
When you run a business, you try to keep costs down and profits up.
You can’t do that by misusing and breaking your tools, it will put you out of business.
I use a Craftsman torque wrench I received in the late '70's. I did not use it much in Automotive work. Dug it out when I started building AR's. it is still accurate. Almost 50 years. I was taught to take care of my tools. I have a set of pliers that my father had before I was born. Keep up the good work. Enjoy your videos. Caleb, don't change your hair. You do you!
These videos are gold.....absolute GOLD i tell you!!!! I love how you guys delve into the details of the "whys," "hows", and "why nots" of the AR15 build. Please keep doing informative videos like these!!!!
I won’t say you are wrong, but if Chad from the American rifle channel suggest that you use something I usually listen to him. The MI tool is the best choice. The device is amazing but very expensive
My Savage MSR barrel nut was so tight from the factory. I destroyed my upper removing the nut. There was no locktite or rockset once I cut it off. I heated it. And steamed it. I broke my armorers wrench first. Then upper twisted after i got a better tool and a breaker bar.
I had it in a vise block that had two pins. Ripped the uppers receivers pin block. So I just tighter the upper in the vise. I was at a point of no return. That’s when it twisted.
Gas block alignment certainly does matter with some gas blocks. Buddy built his first AR and it wouldn't run at all, we moved the block off of the shoulder and suddenly it ran with no issues.
I love this video! Besides guns, I work on cars, bikes and airplanes. They’re all just machines. Nothing magical about them. My favorite was the torque wrench. Why DID they put the reverse switch on them, lol! Those folks would probably pass out watching me use one as a breaker bar! The key is to buy a good quality one so you can trust the cal! Keep up the good work!
Every ar I’ve built has been on one of those blocks that holds the pins and I will say I did accidentally forget to pin the front one time I installed a barrel and I snapped off the rear takedown pin hole, but other than that never had a problem, I also keep the upper in that jig to install the muzzle device, I agree you guys are very good when it comes to information ! Keep it up !!!
If you use a reaction rod that only grabs the barrel extension you will have issues with the index pin getting smooshed and the upper receiver index pin slow getting enlarged. You just need something that holds the upper itself, not just the barrel extension.
Wow!! As a novice to the AR world, you have debunked myths about "problems" I never even would have though of. Maybe I don't worry enough.😉 Here's a couple of my obsevations: Aluminum Oxide is tougher than Aluminum. You can use Aluminum Oxide sandpaper on Aluminum, it's how they clean up castings. You said a torque wrench doesn’t know which way it's going. I have one that does. It was my Dad's, and probably made in the early 60's, maybe before then. It's still in it's steel case, though most of the paint has worn off the outside. It measures torque for clockwise wise rotation. When you flip the lever for counterclockwise rotation, it "locks up/out" the torque mechanism, and behaves like any other ratchet. You can break loose any rusty nut or bolt you want. It does mean it cannot do LH threads, which is occasionally a pain in the A$$. 😉 I am learning a lot, keep up the good work! 👍
Now hold on a minute! I bought not 1 but 2 reaction rods from Brownells - one for an AR-15 and another for a 308-AR. I want a refund since they are totally unnecessary according to Caleb here! 😜
I was quoted as saying the opposite at 6:05 lol
@@CalebSavant I know that 😝 That device you demonstrated is interesting. However, I have the reaction rods and will continue using them. Especially for installing and removing muzzle devices because they secure the barrel itself, not the receiver the barrel is attached to. I “get” your point that if the torque needed to remove a muzzle device is enough to damage the receiver we have bigger problems.
Send them back, 100% satisfaction guarantee!
But they look nice hanging on your shop wall.🔧
Wow Steve REALY looked like he was drinking, but what gave it away was him drinking it too much and implying he had some left at thr end
watched enough School of the American Rifle videos to actually agree that using a proper reaction rod for barrel torques, while not 100% required, is highly recommended. it's a one time purchase, may as well play it safe.
Only problem I'm having in building an AR is SCOTUS is a bit slow in knocking out the anti 2A laws.
So you're a felon?
More likely a resident of Kalifornia.
@@72polara Close, Peoples Republic of Washington, semi-auto ban.
@@didamnesia3575 wow, just wow.
THIS!!!!
What about the 2 piece plastic upper receiver vise blocks that go on each side of the upper receiver? Are they any good for tightening a barrel nut?
Those are fine, just a bit dated.
Yep. Agree with previous commentor.... I have at least 2 that I've put together that wat with over 2 k rounds... no issue whatsoever.
That said, I did "ding" a brass deflector with the vise jaw due to inattention using those..... but completely my fault.
I like the magpul bev block. As it's easier to set up in my opinion. About $30 when on sale.
And again, that rod they showed is easier to set up and clamp down, not necessarily superior for quality of build.
Still a useful tool to keep in your tool box, but it’ll most likely not fit billet or other uniquely shaped upper receivers.
@@Artie760 interesting. Didn't realize that, thanks!
I have that plastic clamp style with the tube, the only thing i dont like about it is it will leave a mark on the finish.
I scooped up a real avid reaction rod for cheap and there's no wing. It works great and I've had no issues with it. I also have a cheap plastic vice block that clamps around the whole upper receiver but I rarely use it. Got a harbor freight torque wrench as well as a wheeler fat wrench and a tapco AR wrench that are all affordable budget tools that get the job done. Great video
Agreed. As for the torque wrench, as long as you aren’t exceeding the amount of torque that you have it set for you’re fine.
When tightening the barrel nut just put the upper in the vise sideways, with some softer material in the jaws to protect the Picatinny rail and bottom of the receiver, rather than using some jig which relies on the "feet" that the takedown and pivot pins pass through to carry that torque. Also, if you're concerned about this, rather than buying some expensive "reaction rod" to install muzzle devices, just take the rail off and put the barrel in a V-block in the vise when installing the muzzle device. ZERO torque is applied to the upper this way.
The reaction rod with a sail will keep the barrel straight compared to many other clam shell types..Many AR uppers are not made to spec or are on the outer end of the spec, add a wide index slots and the barrel index pin (will) move side to side while torquing the barrel nut..This can cause the barrel to clock enough in the upper to cause misalignment between the bolt and barrel extension..I have seen a lot of home made AR's where the bolt hits the barrel extension while closing the bolt, causing peening on the out side of the bolt..I have fixed many of these clocked barrels using the Mid West reaction rod or the 2Unique reaction rod ..The reaction rod with a sail will also prevent damage to the uppers index slot or breaking the barrel index pin if too much torque is used..The 2Unique reaction rod uses wider lugs and a thinner sail compared to the Mid West URR that has narrower lugs with a wider sail..
I think its a good practice to loosen torqued nuts with torque wrenches. It provides important information about pre existing torque
I've been watching lots of these videos, both Brownells and a bunch from Chad at SOTAR, while I consider building (vs buying) my next AR... I'll probably buy another one for now, maybe separate upper/ lower. But I am learning a lot about what to look for, and if I do decide to swap parts/ build, i feel like I have a good knowledge base to do so, from these videos :)
This was probably the most informative (for me) video about AR building I've seen in a while! Good vid!
I just assembled my 1st AR10 last week. I used aero precision M5 receiver set & handguard. A Faxon 18" big gunner barrel with rifle length gas system & geissle SSA-E X trigger. I also used a non adjustable low pro gas block. I haven't had any issues but would you recommend an adjustable gas block?? I'll be using this rifle mostly for deer, hogs & some range fun of course.
Just my 2 cents: I'd install an adjustable gas block "just in case", as in better to have it.... If you want to add a suppressor, it'd be good to have that adjustment capability.
There’s enough real knowledge out there to learn without having to make up imaginary stress on the barrel extension pin lol. Great video guys.
There is a lot of broken and sheared barrel extension pins if you cared to look..Must be a lot imagination going around lol..
I put mine together with a vice, two blocks of wood, and a cheap barrel wrench, people are obsessive
I’ve got an old DPMS block that fits into the upper and pins on. Triple digit uppers have been assembled on that thing over the last 20 plus years. No issues at all.
Im glad you addressed the reaction rod myth...i thought i need to run out and get a new widget....Im sure if Mr Stoner thought the index pin and 6 x 1.25in worth of threads ( some one get me the linear ft on that please) was insufficient, im sure he would had made something that was sufficient.
It is not a myth and he proved nothing..The reaction rod with a sail prevents the barrel from clocking in the upper unlike other methods..This is how we fix clocked barrels..
with cheap handguards the barrel nut will get out of position and can not be fixed leaving the handguard canted. if you do not clamp the barrel . cough bca owners are aware of this cough cough. love the videos
You guys are the absolute best. Thank you so much for being real. God bless.
One of the best ones ever, you guys are great.
The reaction rod is ideally used without the upper support bar for the intention of exclusively holding the barrel while working on the muzzle end. There's absolutely enough play to keep the barrel from engaging the tool, unless you put some thin blue painters tape around the teeth ;) just don't run it along the side of the upper support bar or you could gouge the upper inside .. You can also clamp the upper to a table top on the corner or use some blocks and clamps.. Gas block alignment can be found turning the block over, and use painters tape to mark depth, then level the block and upper on a flat "glass" table top (free info for the betterment of man)
Great video. Novice people can become consumed with details. Which propagates on the internet exponentially.
Love these videos. I totally agree, in general, about removing things with a torque wrench. I would caution against using a torque wrench when listening auto parts that may have untold high torque, I think that's where the people get confused. They were told in shop class not to loosen with one and they took it as gospel.
Absolutely love and appreciate these videos, please do not stop. Great no non sense information.
This might be the craziest thing you’ve ever heard but I check all my gas tube alignments by sucking air through the gas tube after I have tightened the set screws on the gas block. I’ve done it enough to know exactly where to set my adjustable gas blocks to shoot 300 blackout subsonic rounds.
I love these guys! People think the hardened steel/aluminum is like paper mache
What people??
I stopped giving my advice on this subject everybody is a pro . These day people are worried about quantity vs quality. Thanks for the videos
I have heard that the reason your torque wrench has a reverse switch is so it can be used in the southern hemisphere. Down there you tighten bolts the opposite direction. Using the reversing lever in North America will throw your spring drozilator out of whack.
Always an outstanding video and presentation.
I would love to know what you do for Brownells in addition to making videos.
If you want a really good torque wrench, like for people who use them in a professional context and you're using it all the time, DeWalt makes a very nice digital one. It's available in various drives. You definitely can loosen/tighten lefty fasteners with a torque wrench btw. If you weren't supposed to do that, the manufacturer wouldn't install a knob to reverse the torque.
“This ain’t no middle of the mall barrel” 😂 nice Riff Raff reference!
Only non-boomer thing about this video, including the gen Z’r that said it. Lol
The reaction rod, a silly name. Having used one makes assembly very easy. During torquing you can see the receiver flex. Several uppers done around same time and all flexed. So sure, you could torque without a reaction rod. It’s a good practice to use one. We saw near no flex, level the rod in the vise and go.
I assembled my first lower with a few Allen wrenches, upper pre-assembled. So to throw together an upper with minimal tools is possible. Tightening the barrel nut adds a challenge. If you from the Navy probably can do it without a torque wrench… Oh if you vape, it’s a good way to test if gas block is aligned or anything can get through. It was cool to see. Cherry smell lasted till first few shots.
Regarding the torque wrenches, all the trainings I get. Every one of them specifically say do not use it to break a bolt or nut off. Even engineering explanations have very good reasons. It’s not just about the spring in the wrench. I’ve seen damage occur on a few systems of others just cranking on the wrench. It can happen, example noted one guy had to recheck up to 5 systems. On the spot my wrench was able to tighten more while the later just clicked each time. Mine from cal was good, theirs was not from the incident. But you’re not dealing with rotating mass like our stuff. Things fly off due to damaged bolts by torque or not right spec reached.
This is my favorite Brownells' video by far.
Torque wrench calibration is generally +/- 4% in Clockwise, +/- 6% Counter Clockwise. Ive calibrated many many. Also who would of ever give it a thought to hold the receiver to tighten the barrel nut? Ive always held the barrel with hardwood blocks.
The torque wrench issue when loosening is exceeding the maximum allowable torque. Loosening usually requires more torque than setting. So if you're at the top of the torque range (example, using a 100ftlb wrench to loosen a barrel nut set to 80) you can damage the internals by exceeding the max setting.
That said, if you set the wrench to it's max and stop using it if there is a click you'll be ok.
My first upper receiver holding tool is the clamshell type that clamps in the vise. I was removing parts to replace my handguard with a modern handguard for floating barrels.
The barrel nut had a little bit of galvonic reaction to it which is corrosion. And it's normal to have a teeny bit between steel and aluminum. And it was really tight trying to get it free and I watch my upper receiver twisting a little bit had me scared That I was going to permanently twist my upper receiver and warp it. So I shifted off to using a reaction rod. I still have the clamshell style and it's great for building new receivers with new barrels and nuts. But if I have to put some real torque on something I'm using that reaction. Rod.
The torque wrench wouldn't have the option to knuckle that way if it wasn't designed to work for left hand threaded fasteners. That's always been my argument as well when someone says you shouldn't use them to loosen things. I could understand that argument for in-lb torque wrenches, maybe, but not ft-lb torque wrenches
Great video, guys. Don't think I've ever heard any of those myths before. Keep up the good videos.
With slop in rec.up pin got rid of sight cant small amount but it means a lot on sight w gas block. Gi reg.
I work on aircraft. A 737 has a 150 FT/LB final torque on the axle nut. A 3/4 drive torque wrench is used to break it loose routinely and the torque wrenches withstand it no problem. A recreational user assembling gun parts will not wear out their torque wrench breaking a few barrel nuts with one.
Yall are doing too much!!!! What a great catch phrase! 😂😂😂😂😂😂thanks appreciate you guys!
As long as you don't exceed the torque wrench specs, you can loosen all day long. Sometimes you just don't know how tight something is though. Loosening with a breaker bar is the best way to be sure. Every toolbox should have a breaker bar.
Not to throw shade, genuine question based in what theory I have;
Years ago, I saw a SOTAR video where it was clearly stated you needed a reaction rod, because there's a decent chance of shearing the pin on the extension. I thought this was odd because the modulus on the pin was WAY more stout than an aluminum thread. Has anyone ever seen it? Crazier stuff happens, so I assume it's been seen. I also thought saying it would kill your barrel if it happened was odd, too. Couldn't you drill the pin out and replace with a new extension? Even boring a few thousandths over in the barrel and new extension being an option. Or is there a pressure issue?
The torque wrench comments were cracking me up in that video as someone who uses torque wrenches in the garage a lot.
You did it. You addressed all those comments from "The Device" video that said it was over priced and didn't do as good of a job as the MI reaction rod. So glad you came through. I am no expert but I have built a few dozen AR's and I just purchased the Lite Device and man I love it. The ol reaction rod will probably be going on tacswap. It is the beefiest and stoutest way to hold the upper reciever period.
Yeah, torque wrenches can pretty much handle the normal use you described.
In theory, in extremely precise applications, a torque wrench may be calibrated slightly differently going one way vs the other. It doesn't really cause damage using it the other direction, just may be very slightly off if that's not the direction in which it was calibrated.
Still doesn't matter for the vast majority of applications, including pretty much anything you'd be doing at home.
Ive been building for 10 yrs now...but, these were questions i had as a noob. The new guys are so lucky to have vids like these. (I started building when there were actually yt vids showing u how to build)
When being tightened, once the lugs of the reaction rod contact the barrel extension engage, there is no more stress on the pin.......kicker.....AS LONG AS the slack in the pin and slot is less than the barrel extension and lugs. The most value a reaction rod has is to prevent clocking of a barrel with a FSB.
Nope, the friction torque between the upper face and the barrel flange is still present if the reaction rod does not have a sail....
American rifle school did a video about using these common, “lower budget” or wrong tools to build a rifle.
That gas block measurement matters
I use the same torque wrench for everything that needs torqued.
Gas block, if the mark the block and port for alignment they will know exactly how far against the shoulder it should be.
How about something important... Like getting aluma-hyde back on the shelves.
I checked last week, there was only black, stainless, and parkerizing gray I believe
@@msquared9605 I'm checking every other day. Amazon has odg, tan, black, dk grey and clear. I need coyote or dk earth so I can do my build.
I worked on thousands of M16A1s in the army and never heard of a reaction rod until 35+ years after I got out. We had aluminum vise jaws that fit around the barrel and when the barrel started to turn, we grabbed a junk barrel out of the garbage can and stuck it through the front sight base. Then we either had someone hold onto the junk barrel, or just let the one in the vise turn until the the junk hit the workbench and it couldn't turn any farther. Usually the latter. Sometimes we had to use extreme amounts of force to loosen barrels, and even a breaker bar wasn't enough if someone didn't properly torque and grease the barrel the last time it was installed. That's why you should never use a torque wrench or ratchet wrench to break loose a tight nut of any kind, whether it's a barrel nut or a lug nut. Sometimes you need to slip a pipe over your breaker bar for extra leverage, and that would be enough to destroy a torque wrench. Something you just tightened within the limits of your torque wrench can be loosened with it no problem, but I still use a breaker bar to loosen everything because I think it's a bad habit to get into. One time I had to change an upper receiver but the barrel was still good, and they were seized together because someone didn't coat the threads with molybdenum disulfide grease like they were supposed to. I used a big piece of steel pipe to beat the upper off of the barrel. Things like that are why I got into a disagreement on TH-cam with someone at a gun company who just puts a bit of oil on the threads of the upper and torques the nut down. ONE TIME. We always torqued them down, loosened them, torqued them down, loosened them,and torqued them down again because the threads on a new upper receiver will stretch when you tighten the barrel nut. Not to mention some of the anodizing grinding down. The nut actually tightens down farther when you reapply the same amount of torque again the third time, when compared to the first. If your barrel gets hot enough, maybe because you went "full semi-automatic" 😉and did several mag dumps, oil can burn off but the metal particles in moly grease are like a thin plating that isn't going anywhere.
torque test channel just did a video on torque wrenches. iirc, most all myths were bs except for one. you need to dial the torque down to zero to store it.
Steve is a man of great patience
yeah my head hurts too
can you do an episode on converting a 30.06 Remington 700 ADL to a BDL?
6-10-2024, 8:08AM, PST
: When not using my torque wrenches, either for firearms or for automotive use, I always set them to zero. There won't be any standing pressure on the wrench/spring when not in use. Unless you're doing something stupid, a torque wrench might outlive you calibration wise. LOL. Outstanding instructional info information. 🐢 🤔 🐢 😲 🐢 😀
I always back the torch regulators off when I'm done too. Really aggravates the next guy, lol.
True, good practice to tune them down. I should probably start doing that for the work ones.
Maybe more relevant to removing a spent barrel and/or removing a sig muzzle device after boiling the hell out of it.
Title should’ve been “ Caleb takes down the armchair warriors”
Steve is the icing on Caleb’s cake 😂😂😂
You mean I don't need to make rocket science out of it. I still have an early build I put together. It looks like a XM177. It was the first rifle all three of my kids shot. The oldest one is 43. There were only very basic tools available then. Great video. Thanks guys.
Working in automotive and motorbikes section in Italy and being self taught mechanic I heard this thing about torque wrenches a lot. I honestly think about that the myth come from the idea of prolungating life of a costy tool...if u use it only to torque to spec u definetly use it 1/2 of the times so it can be logic....but than not using it for the opposite if u have to work on something specific it is just stupid...as u perfectly said they have a switch so that's the best clue that it can be used reverse mode
You guys are awesome and funny. Keep up the good work.
Anti seize grease when installing the buffer tube/castle nut? Some say yes, others say not needed. I'm building my first AR and already completed the lower with NO grease. Do I take it apart and add it now?
So what about the Brownell's AR-15/M16 Upper Receiver Action Block! I have one similar to this and have used it to replace barrels and muzzle devices without issue.
Love all the videos and especially these lol. Such good info and even better when busting some less than stellar critical thinking skill. Keep it all comin and my only request is maybe what is the timeline on some more alumahyde restocks??? Special FDE...been waitn and rechecked last nite to make sure i didnt miss an email but still out? Yall havent discontinued it i hope to God lol hopin maybe just at worst a revamping?? Its too good not to keep it available but any way thank for all both of you do and ill be patiently waiting for more lol
If you loosen a faster that exceeds the torque wrench spec, you will fuck up your torque wrench. The warning isn't there for thread seasoning. Its there so you don't try to loosen your lug nuts that were tightend to 250 with an impact. Or try to break a rusted siezed up ass bolt
It hurt to hear some of this... but I guess I needed to hear it.
Why do I feel like this was a sneak diss towards PSA lower parts kits 💀💀😂😂
Thanks for the tips!
Not sure if you already covered it but BCG coatings have been making my head spin lately. What I keep hearing lately is Nickel Boron is overrated and Chrome is the best.
A quality phosphate BCG (Daniel Defense, BCM, Colt, Centurion, BRT) is better than a Nickel Boron from the likes of Anderson, BCA, Delton, Etc.
Actually, watch the "school of the American rifle" channel about this topic. Great in depth video.
Basically. The best bcg was chrome plated bolt channel, phosphate or other coating on the carrier outside. Problem with nickel boron is that it's thinner than chrome, so when used in the bolt channel, it could allow a slight bit of slop due to thinner coating. The coating itself didn't seem to be the issue.
I think certain coatings have to be done to the entire bcg, others like phosphate, can allow chrome in the channel.
He also went in to some manufacturers seeming to mill the channel to accommodate the thinner coatings, and they seemed to spec fine.
Fascinating topic, and the guy keeps a relatively complex topic fairly simple.
Pretty sure I’ve used my torque wrench as a hammer a few times here now. Still does that “clicking” thing. I mean, I’ve never calibrated it. But my right arm is pretty darn close to perfect…except that one time I bashed my finger…using it as a hammer!
Has anybody tried a torque test on the indexing pin? It would be interesting to see what the limit is.
You can ruin a torque wrench by putting more torque on it than it’s set for or rated for.
The head of a torque wrench swivels on a pin, once you hear the click you need to stop.
I was taught that in auto shop in high school and motorcycle school in college, and have seen wrenches with the pins, heads broken and sides smashed down.
Just try torquing down a bolt that requires 120 ft lb with a 50 ft lb rated torque wrench and see what happens, it’s not a breaker bar.
You can..
I’m curious, what AR has a barrel nut torqued to 120 ftlbs?
@@TheArmamentShop Ones the customer red loctited the threads because some nimrod on the internet told him to do it..
@@TheArmamentShop FAL Imbel kit with the receiver stub still on the barrel. I don’t know what torque specs Imbel used but I have had to use a cut off wheel, hammer and chisel to split the receiver stub to get it off.
Steel receivers with threaded barrels sometimes require high torque to time the barrel within specs, without shaving the barrel shoulder.
The reaction rod is nonsense. Even with its use, the friction between the barrel nut and receiver threads will apply torque to the receiver which forces it against the barrel index pin.
Not if the reaction rod has a sail..
One would think so. Like a bolt with nut one has to hold 1 side tighten other with receiver in the middle like samich got it down!!!!
The classic breaker bar-torque wrench adage is good advice, but not for this application. I also have always been told to not use a torque wrench as a breaker bar, but I think the real damage there is more akin to using a 3/8 breaker bar with a 90 ft-lb maximum to take off seized 150 ft-lb lug nuts. More using it for its long handle for maximum breaking force rather than just because it's a close-by tool. I would be shocked if any AR torque specs could damage a 3/8, even some 1/4 in. ones. People get hung up on things and don't consider the application. You can break anything if you try hard enough, but if you use it reasonably it's going to be fine; coming from a mechanical engineer.