Quick question, wouldn’t decreasing the size of the steam tip holes increase velocity of which the steam comes out? If so, I’m thinking it would increase the rate at which you can incorporate air into the milk while decreasing the rate at which the milk heats up. Just something to consider. Thanks for the review and I’m looking forward to getting mine delivered this Friday!!!
No. The steam is at a fixed pressure determined by the boiler, and this pressure determines the velocity of the steam. The total steam flow rate is less (because the nozzle exit is smaller).
@@a_mouse6858 In the same way water from an open garden hose has the same velocity as from a small bore attachment? Oh wait.... Perhaps you're the type who blows out birthday candles with mouth agape.
Hi and thanks for the video. I am really struggling to get silky foam on a R58 from rocket. I can with many other machines including a Gaggia Classic but I really can't with the R58. I juggled around with boiler temperature trying all of the values and both included tips (in Italy we get the 2 holes 1.2 and 1.5 mm). Perhaps to get the silky foam I should get a smaller steam wand outlet to reduce pressure a bit?
Hi there! It's worth a try, it can be tough jumping to the R58 as it has a steam wand that's closer to commercial wands, so it steams much faster than more entry level machines. Practice makes perfect eventually!
@@SeattleCoffeeGear Well, I had it for almost two years and I was getting decent results until now. I noticed that when steaming milk, if I set the temperature of the serrvice boiler to the max (126 'C) I barely get to 1 bar and when steaming the machine sets to 0.6-0.7 bar. Any ideas for throubleshooting? Thanks a lot in advance!
The Mozzafiato R (the model slightly cheaper than R58) has some plastic hidden under the drip tray so I assume the R58 also has some plastic parts. Don't know if it is because of a need for isolating electric parts or if it's an ideological choice where you are not supposed to ever be satisfied and embrace willfully made design flaws. I do not think you have to be worried about the boiler but if you really do hate plastic then it's at least hidden from view. Rocket machines are known for their quality so I do not expect the competition to make better machines at the same price.
Sorry, I have to correct my previous answer, The Mozzafiato R is all metal with some small plastic bits to protect the metal from scratching. It's all metal.
I don't think so. But considering it's now USB, you could theoretically place it anywhere with a usb extension if you really want it plugged in. That was also my thought, considering it's right near the steamer.
Hello, I got this machine at home, my father lost the PID display and now we ordered a new one. Now the problem occurred that the display shows firmware version 0.0 and asks for a 4 digit Password we called the manufacturer but they say they have no idea why this is. I can't find anything in the manuals about a factory set password so now I am left with a $250 screen that doesn't let me do anything :( maybe you got an idea?
Big question! Can you measure the depth of the feet? Essentially, what is the minimum counter depth needed to have all four feet sturdily on the counter?
I prefer the old feet. But the best new feature is the auto on / off. However I’ll never be able to afford this machine in 1000 years so it’s not really a problem.
I don't agree with J Y. If you buy a Rancilio Silvia you'll get upgraditis in a couple of months. Buy a decent HX machine like NS Oscar II (buy the OPV and Sirai Pressurstat upgrade from factory) or a Rocket Appartamento if you have the budget (It seems like you do) pair it with an Eureka Mignon Specialita and you are good to go for at least a couple of years until you feel the need to upgrade.
I bought a Rocket as my first machine and realized an expensive machine did not automagically make great espresso and fine latte art. I got coffe with not that much crema and milk that was only part bubbly foam with big bubbles and not that microfoam you want. It's slowly getting there. The shop that sold me my machine wants to sell a barista course for 300 USD but that seems to be a waste of money.
Really, really wanted to love and get this, after lusting after Rocket machines for many years, but sadly some of the design choices made may have killed my purchase:- • LCD - still using a cable - no wifi - and seemingly unable to be positioned on the other side. Sadly this may well be game over for me as my unit would be butted up to the left, up against a wall and space is tight, so simply unable to use an LCD on the left. I guess you could leave the LCD attached underneath the unit and pull it out if/when necessary, although not ideal. Surely using a smartphone app and wifi would be more modern, and cheaper to make (no proprietary LCD hardware needed)? • The dials seem to take lots of rotation to work, from your demo? Makes me wonder if they can be over-turned/stressed over time by over-grinding the washers? Shame they aren't spring-loaded valves like the cheaper Profitec Pro 700, for example, so less revolutions needed and no chance of over-turning. Spring-loaded would also help with aligning that black "R" sticker logo on the left dial when not in use, for those with visual OCD. • The Steam and Hot Water wands appear to be overly manspreading outwards. Can't you rotate them forward instead? Again the unit in my case would be butted up against a wall, so the steam wand sticking out further sidewards will limit functionality, as well as looking a little odd. Why didn't Rocket have the wand ball-socket at the bottom, so you can swing it any direction you want, like the Mozzafiato?! • The non-removable cup rail is actually a negative for me as it makes the unit higher that it could otherwise be if you don't use it as a cup warmer. Harder to pour water into the unit under a kitchen cabinet with the rail there. Based on these design choices it looks like I may well be giving my money to ECM for the Synchronika. Shame I as love the Rocket branding. I don't actually mind the new feet design, although I understand why others might not.
I would much much rather have this tablet there at all times rather than having to pull up my phone. Why would you even need your phone for this? I also believe you can add an extension to the cable and have the tablet on the other side. That is what I am aiming for, although I could totally have it lying on the left side of the drip tray or beneath the machine. The dial seems fine. Did not know that turning a little wheel was an issue for some people. Don't buy the awesome HG-1 grinder, dude, when this is a problem for you. Steam wand seems perfectly fine for me. She turns it in a lot of position and I can't see myself use any other positions either even though that is likely possible to do. And lastly, these machines produce a lot of heat and steam through the top. You actually don't want it under a cabinet. You want this released out of the machine and you don't want to ruin your cabinets either. The top is to heat the cups. Seems like you need a coffee station like most people with these high-ends machine use instead of cramped beneath some kitchen cabinets. I really think you should buy the ECM Synchronika, because this machine has a bucket full of awesome functions and you seem to be stuck on some non-essential issues. You're looking for a machine that fits your tiny kitchen space while I shop machines with functions that I want. This machine beats ECM Synchronika.
Good video about this dual boiler machine. Would have liked to see you taste the espresso and state how it was. Super machine. I do not care for the angular feet. Hope Rocket provides the round pillar feet instead.
I don't think you want to be making back to back drinks with any of these prosumer machines. The boiler just isn't big enough to handle it. If you are opening a cafe, then don't cheap out on the machine... spend a few extra dollars and get something that will stand up to heavy useage.
When you use like $3k on a machine, you might appreciate that the legs doesn't look like 99% of other E61 legs, and makes it stand out from the crowd. I actually like the legs. Gives it a more robust look. Ended up ordering one of this badboy.
@@martins4531 great machine, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. I've had a La Cimbali Jr for over 20 years that's still going strong .... I'm a little unsure if I need to get into something newer, but I'm considering it. I think with design you either like the look or you don't, regardless of the price. The legs wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, that's for sure. Enjoy the new machine.
The detachable colour LCD is a feature no one asked for and didn't want. A simple monochrome display and a couple of control buttons hidden behind the drip tray would have provided the same features. Any display that includes a digital clock/calendar and duplicates other information (countdown timer) is proof enough that its existence is unnecessary. For a company that insists digital displays ruin the aesthetic of their machines, they sure are hell-bent on including large and pointless digital displays. The original R58 is a fantastic machine, with its only weak point being the stupid detachable control panel. After waiting years for Rocket to integrate and hide the control panel, they introduce a detachable colour version instead - argh!!!
I think the problem is some people want it, and it would be antithetical to mount one on the front or side panel. So this way you can just remove it and put away in a drawer. Most people don't need to adjust brew temp very often.
You Americans are a funny lot. "14 grams in and stopping at about an ounce". In what world does that make any sense. You guys really hate the French that much that you hold onto the old imperial system to take forever to work with fractions? 🤣😂
The couple differences in the machine do make a big difference. Loving this updated version!
Quick question, wouldn’t decreasing the size of the steam tip holes increase velocity of which the steam comes out? If so, I’m thinking it would increase the rate at which you can incorporate air into the milk while decreasing the rate at which the milk heats up. Just something to consider. Thanks for the review and I’m looking forward to getting mine delivered this Friday!!!
No. The steam is at a fixed pressure determined by the boiler, and this pressure determines the velocity of the steam. The total steam flow rate is less (because the nozzle exit is smaller).
@@a_mouse6858 In the same way water from an open garden hose has the same velocity as from a small bore attachment? Oh wait....
Perhaps you're the type who blows out birthday candles with mouth agape.
How we can update the PID to the new version V1.5 to fix the cronometro timer problem?
Hi and thanks for the video. I am really struggling to get silky foam on a R58 from rocket. I can with many other machines including a Gaggia Classic but I really can't with the R58. I juggled around with boiler temperature trying all of the values and both included tips (in Italy we get the 2 holes 1.2 and 1.5 mm). Perhaps to get the silky foam I should get a smaller steam wand outlet to reduce pressure a bit?
Hi there! It's worth a try, it can be tough jumping to the R58 as it has a steam wand that's closer to commercial wands, so it steams much faster than more entry level machines. Practice makes perfect eventually!
@@SeattleCoffeeGear Well, I had it for almost two years and I was getting decent results until now. I noticed that when steaming milk, if I set the temperature of the serrvice boiler to the max (126 'C) I barely get to 1 bar and when steaming the machine sets to 0.6-0.7 bar. Any ideas for throubleshooting? Thanks a lot in advance!
@@mtb27 maybe yours is one that they are selling now that is open box for $800 less or they all seem to be going bad!
Boo on the feet! I’m the old feet looked cool. I don’t know why updated that!
Agreed. I have the older style feet and love their look way more
can the feet be taken off. I need a low profile to fit under my cabinet.
Is it all stainless and copper on the inside for the water? So many seem to have plastic parts.
The Mozzafiato R (the model slightly cheaper than R58) has some plastic hidden under the drip tray so I assume the R58 also has some plastic parts. Don't know if it is because of a need for isolating electric parts or if it's an ideological choice where you are not supposed to ever be satisfied and embrace willfully made design flaws. I do not think you have to be worried about the boiler but if you really do hate plastic then it's at least hidden from view. Rocket machines are known for their quality so I do not expect the competition to make better machines at the same price.
Sorry, I have to correct my previous answer, The Mozzafiato R is all metal with some small plastic bits to protect the metal from scratching. It's all metal.
How does the machine know about daylight savings? Do I need to manually change the time?
I must have missed the part about selecting metric settings. I see the touch screen in Celsius in the thumbnail so I assume there's a setting?
Can we steam & pull shots at the same time ?? Looking to make 150 drinks a day at least.
Yes you can steam and pull shots at the same time. No idea if it can handle 150 shots per day though
this is not a commercial machine. They don't sell commercial machines.
Can you swap the LCD to the other side? Is it wireless?
I don't think so. But considering it's now USB, you could theoretically place it anywhere with a usb extension if you really want it plugged in.
That was also my thought, considering it's right near the steamer.
Hello, I got this machine at home, my father lost the PID display and now we ordered a new one. Now the problem occurred that the display shows firmware version 0.0 and asks for a 4 digit Password we called the manufacturer but they say they have no idea why this is. I can't find anything in the manuals about a factory set password so now I am left with a $250 screen that doesn't let me do anything :( maybe you got an idea?
did they ever reply?
what is the brand of pitcher？
Big question! Can you measure the depth of the feet? Essentially, what is the minimum counter depth needed to have all four feet sturdily on the counter?
they never answered. If the feet were smaller, I would buy one since my counter height is smaller than most!
I prefer the old feet. But the best new feature is the auto on / off. However I’ll never be able to afford this machine in 1000 years so it’s not really a problem.
7:05 That's a Monty, not a Joey.
I’ve you have the choice: the new cinquantotto or a linea mini for the first machine? 🧐
overkill
Rocket. I don't get what features Linea mini has to justify the high price tbh.
You are going to spend $3K+ on a first machine. And still need to pay for a grinder.
Totally unacceptable. Don't be a cheapskate. Get a Rancilio.
I don't agree with J Y. If you buy a Rancilio Silvia you'll get upgraditis in a couple of months. Buy a decent HX machine like NS Oscar II (buy the OPV and Sirai Pressurstat upgrade from factory) or a Rocket Appartamento if you have the budget (It seems like you do) pair it with an Eureka Mignon Specialita and you are good to go for at least a couple of years until you feel the need to upgrade.
I bought a Rocket as my first machine and realized an expensive machine did not automagically make great espresso and fine latte art. I got coffe with not that much crema and milk that was only part bubbly foam with big bubbles and not that microfoam you want. It's slowly getting there. The shop that sold me my machine wants to sell a barista course for 300 USD but that seems to be a waste of money.
Any comparison between lapavoni and flair?
Really, really wanted to love and get this, after lusting after Rocket machines for many years, but sadly some of the design choices made may have killed my purchase:-
• LCD - still using a cable - no wifi - and seemingly unable to be positioned on the other side. Sadly this may well be game over for me as my unit would be butted up to the left, up against a wall and space is tight, so simply unable to use an LCD on the left. I guess you could leave the LCD attached underneath the unit and pull it out if/when necessary, although not ideal. Surely using a smartphone app and wifi would be more modern, and cheaper to make (no proprietary LCD hardware needed)?
• The dials seem to take lots of rotation to work, from your demo? Makes me wonder if they can be over-turned/stressed over time by over-grinding the washers? Shame they aren't spring-loaded valves like the cheaper Profitec Pro 700, for example, so less revolutions needed and no chance of over-turning. Spring-loaded would also help with aligning that black "R" sticker logo on the left dial when not in use, for those with visual OCD.
• The Steam and Hot Water wands appear to be overly manspreading outwards. Can't you rotate them forward instead? Again the unit in my case would be butted up against a wall, so the steam wand sticking out further sidewards will limit functionality, as well as looking a little odd. Why didn't Rocket have the wand ball-socket at the bottom, so you can swing it any direction you want, like the Mozzafiato?!
• The non-removable cup rail is actually a negative for me as it makes the unit higher that it could otherwise be if you don't use it as a cup warmer. Harder to pour water into the unit under a kitchen cabinet with the rail there. Based on these design choices it looks like I may well be giving my money to ECM for the Synchronika. Shame I as love the Rocket branding. I don't actually mind the new feet design, although I understand why others might not.
I would much much rather have this tablet there at all times rather than having to pull up my phone. Why would you even need your phone for this? I also believe you can add an extension to the cable and have the tablet on the other side. That is what I am aiming for, although I could totally have it lying on the left side of the drip tray or beneath the machine. The dial seems fine. Did not know that turning a little wheel was an issue for some people. Don't buy the awesome HG-1 grinder, dude, when this is a problem for you. Steam wand seems perfectly fine for me. She turns it in a lot of position and I can't see myself use any other positions either even though that is likely possible to do. And lastly, these machines produce a lot of heat and steam through the top. You actually don't want it under a cabinet. You want this released out of the machine and you don't want to ruin your cabinets either. The top is to heat the cups. Seems like you need a coffee station like most people with these high-ends machine use instead of cramped beneath some kitchen cabinets. I really think you should buy the ECM Synchronika, because this machine has a bucket full of awesome functions and you seem to be stuck on some non-essential issues. You're looking for a machine that fits your tiny kitchen space while I shop machines with functions that I want. This machine beats ECM Synchronika.
Totally agree on main point here. Traeger grills do exactly what you describe (as an example).
If they made it look as good as the appartamento Nera, I may consider trading in. The timer on/off and better drip tray would be great
Look in Puerto Rico , they have in black this famous Cinquanttoto !
But only in Puerto Rico ... I want it 😅
Too bad it doesnt steam at 2 bar, like the profitec and ECM
Si soy!!!!
Good video about this dual boiler machine. Would have liked to see you taste the espresso and state how it was. Super machine.
I do not care for the angular feet. Hope Rocket provides the round pillar feet instead.
Can the r58 handle a small cafe?
I don't think you want to be making back to back drinks with any of these prosumer machines. The boiler just isn't big enough to handle it. If you are opening a cafe, then don't cheap out on the machine... spend a few extra dollars and get something that will stand up to heavy useage.
Love the updates, but the new legs - I hope they grow on me.
When you use like $3k on a machine, you might appreciate that the legs doesn't look like 99% of other E61 legs, and makes it stand out from the crowd. I actually like the legs. Gives it a more robust look. Ended up ordering one of this badboy.
@@martins4531 great machine, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. I've had a La Cimbali Jr for over 20 years that's still going strong .... I'm a little unsure if I need to get into something newer, but I'm considering it. I think with design you either like the look or you don't, regardless of the price. The legs wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, that's for sure. Enjoy the new machine.
Putting milk in drip tray :@
Why didn't you taste that coffee ☕!?😮💨
Ugh, the feet on this machine are awful. Can they be changed out?
Legs are the only problem for me....
Sooner or later they will make the water wand less intrusive.
The detachable colour LCD is a feature no one asked for and didn't want. A simple monochrome display and a couple of control buttons hidden behind the drip tray would have provided the same features. Any display that includes a digital clock/calendar and duplicates other information (countdown timer) is proof enough that its existence is unnecessary. For a company that insists digital displays ruin the aesthetic of their machines, they sure are hell-bent on including large and pointless digital displays. The original R58 is a fantastic machine, with its only weak point being the stupid detachable control panel. After waiting years for Rocket to integrate and hide the control panel, they introduce a detachable colour version instead - argh!!!
I think the problem is some people want it, and it would be antithetical to mount one on the front or side panel. So this way you can just remove it and put away in a drawer. Most people don't need to adjust brew temp very often.
$3,200!
2400 € in Germany 😁
Please learn how to say Cinquantotto lol
Allie Kraft yaaaaay this makes me happy 😎 thanks for the content
I like the wider variety of presenters, but Gail has disappeared. I hope everything is ok.
You Americans are a funny lot. "14 grams in and stopping at about an ounce". In what world does that make any sense. You guys really hate the French that much that you hold onto the old imperial system to take forever to work with fractions? 🤣😂
What a mess she made in the tray 🥴
Need a better rep to advertise the machine
I prefer Gail
We prefer Gail to the Cinquantotto too.
Seattle Coffee Gear LoL!
@@SeattleCoffeeGear lol
Who spends 3,200 on an espresso machine lol
you would be surprised how many people, today I bought bezzera, 1600 dllrs
People who can’t afford to spend $10,000 on an espresso machine.
Who spends 40000 on a car that is worth 3000 in 10 years.....