How F1 Drivers Brake SO LATE

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 632

  • @stoffelsf155
    @stoffelsf155 ปีที่แล้ว +1215

    The sim footage really helps in understanding the concept - definitely worth using them for future videos!

    • @drygsv
      @drygsv ปีที่แล้ว +72

      That said the FPS is very low

    • @Ricardo29j
      @Ricardo29j ปีที่แล้ว +35

      hurts to watch so low fps not even 60 fps

    • @spinaltap22
      @spinaltap22 ปีที่แล้ว

      True, and it's getting absolutely destroyed by youtube compression unfortunately..@@drygsv

    • @CaptainPanick
      @CaptainPanick ปีที่แล้ว +13

      ​@@Ricardo29jYeah more like 10 FPS

    • @arccrenshaw8391
      @arccrenshaw8391 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      is it just me or is it all choppy though?

  • @tomywarren1850
    @tomywarren1850 ปีที่แล้ว +1081

    Great idea of using iRacing to illustrate, but I'd make sure to show the footage at least at 30fps to observe the vehicle's movement properly. Great video as always!

    • @TheOfficialOriginalChad
      @TheOfficialOriginalChad ปีที่แล้ว +102

      More importantly - screen capture the replay playing slow motion to give the editor flexibility.

    • @tylercouto3644
      @tylercouto3644 ปีที่แล้ว +93

      Agreed. Love the idea, but the frame rate was distractingly low.

    • @Goomey
      @Goomey ปีที่แล้ว +14

      They have no excuse not to record at 120 which is natively supported by OBS and not too hard to run. Heck they could go way higher to get even more impressive slomos.

    • @TheOfficialOriginalChad
      @TheOfficialOriginalChad ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@Goomey You’re clearly not a professional 😂

    • @Goomey
      @Goomey ปีที่แล้ว +17

      @@TheOfficialOriginalChad I'm not! I have little experience in some racing, I do however have heaps of experience in recording. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt the game natively runs at 10-15fps, right?

  • @leolundgren3989
    @leolundgren3989 ปีที่แล้ว +120

    Changing the brake bias for each corner... that's some hardcore dedication to racing right there. Not sure if I'll ever have the level of skill to drive like that. Makes you appreciate these drivers even more. :)

  • @AmrikSadhra
    @AmrikSadhra ปีที่แล้ว +462

    Simulator shots are great, but the difference in FPS is jarring. If they could be recorded at 60fps in future vids that'd be great!

    • @Goomey
      @Goomey ปีที่แล้ว +20

      Something definitely went wrong with the footage, 0 excuse not to record it again

    • @Daiyuki117
      @Daiyuki117 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @Error-rl7wq Alright, I'll just show you 3 pictures next time then, since the frames per second don't matter to you

    • @maestbobo
      @maestbobo 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@Error-rl7wqSuch a stupid thing to say

  • @philipjamesparsons
    @philipjamesparsons ปีที่แล้ว +183

    It was Mario Andretti, who said "drivers still think the brakes are for slowing the car down”. Using the brakes to turn the car is a bewildering subject that Scott, only just touched on. I read an interview with Phil Keen, the sportscar racer. He said that drivers he coaches often brake later than him. However, the car is not as balanced through and out of the corner.

    • @The_ZeroLine
      @The_ZeroLine ปีที่แล้ว +12

      That’s because it feels faster. Until you really start to get many laps in (with onboard predictive lap timers which only became cheap recently w/smart phones) and see how much time you’re losing. I teach trail braking as a race school instructor. So, his video was a bit of an over generalization. Try trail braking in a FWD. Now, that is properly hard / nearly impossible.

    • @snek9353
      @snek9353 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@The_ZeroLine Why is trail braking in a FWD nearly impossible? I dislike FWD so I don't drive it much, and never on track. But I can't wrap my head around that claim, why would trail braking be much different with a FWD? Is it because they're typically so nose heavy and how that effects brake bias? That with the rear providing less braking the brake forces overwhelm the front grip before enough weight transfer is achieved?

    • @The_ZeroLine
      @The_ZeroLine ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@snek9353 Everything is loaded on the front tires. Braking, turning, etc. My first race car was a FWD because it was all I could afford at the time. Happily, I think it made me a better driver in the long run.

    • @ericwilliamson263
      @ericwilliamson263 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@snek9353 i used to have an integra and it was super easy to spin on street tires running square spring rates. that said i still found it necessary to trail brake at least a little bit through turn-in in order to rotate the car. the more unforgiving your setup is the smoother you have to be is all

    • @MitjaBonca
      @MitjaBonca ปีที่แล้ว

      What a stupid saying from Mario... I am sure he was not serious.

  • @wife9571
    @wife9571 ปีที่แล้ว +44

    despite the fps issues (which are v important) i think we’re all in agreement that the simulator footage is very helpful. thank you for the work scott, editors, etc. 😎

  • @lukewilliamson8
    @lukewilliamson8 ปีที่แล้ว +131

    7:43 I think what a lot of beginners fail to realize is that you don’t just want to reach 100% grip at one point in the braking phase, mid corner, and through to the exit phase, but you want to be getting 100% of the grip that you can through all four tyres continuously through the corner. A lot of people can easily find the limit of grip in the initial braking phase, but won’t stay right on the edge of grip fully through the entire braking phase. The same goes for the mid corner and exit, it’s easy to get to 100% at one point but hard to maintain it through the entirety of the corner. Realizing that and having that mindset of: it’s not always about braking later, higher minimum speed, and getting up to full throttle earlier, it’s carrying just a little bit more speed through everything in between that I need to do to find the last couple tenths, has really helped me improve.

    • @1dameister1
      @1dameister1 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The grip is not going to be evenly distributed through the four corners of the car, there's weight transfer not only from the front to the rear, but side to side (Left & Right) too, while trail breaking the weight is going to go from the 2 front tires in the beginning and then in mid corner more to right side and maybe some to the left front, but the rear left corner is going to be unloaded (not always 100%, but there are some shots of V8 race cars that are mid corner on 3 wheels), that's why it's good to have a locking diff, because the unloaded rear tire (be it the left or the right side depending if the corner is left or right) will slip and "spin off" the tires which will lead to slower lap times (slower corner exit, because there's no immediate power when exiting the corner) and/or the tires will overheat and not give the amount of grip they should.
      In the end it comes down to, what type of a car is being driven, how much power does the car have and which circuit.

    • @lukewilliamson8
      @lukewilliamson8 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yeah I get what you’re saying, I just mean maximizing the grip that you do have from all four tyres. I was just highlighting that you need to try and get that maximum available grip through the entirety of the corner, not just at one point in the braking/entry phase, mid corner, and exit.

    • @1dameister1
      @1dameister1 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@lukewilliamson8 Yes, that's how it's done. 👍

    • @christopherrose626
      @christopherrose626 ปีที่แล้ว

      Both, well put. It is no surprise that about the only time I could fully match a young pro driver was on corners where big braking was required into a very slow corner (Road America Turn 3/4 comes to mind where you have a long straight downhill into a sharp right hander that goes uphill on exit. Really all braking in a straight line at the limit of the front tires then rapid transition to throttle.) Otherwise I'd lose a little time getting through corners that involved any significant braking (Obviously The Kink at the same track is an example where no braking is involved and the challenge is always convincing yourself you need to go flat at high speed in order to nonetheless load up the tires and be able to have the grip not to fly off the track!)

    • @ElementsMMA
      @ElementsMMA 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@1dameister1 very well put. I cant work out if it is Japan or Australia, but one of the recent F1 circuits had cars regularly going around one of the apex of the chicanes on three wheels.

  • @QuantumS1ngularity
    @QuantumS1ngularity ปีที่แล้ว +110

    When i finally got out of the wrong mindset that i should brake always in a straight line and then turn, in the sim-racers i found that i really started pushing the brake bias further back, especially in the mid-engined GT3 and GTE cars. In real life i've been only once behind the wheel of a GT3 spec-ed car from 2015 (Audi R8 pre-Evo; best €3000 ever spent) and 2 things really surprised me - how much lighter the steering was compared to what i expected from all the sim-racing i've done and the way my rig was set up. And the other - how much easier trail braking in real life was when you can feel the car and the grip with your entire body through the seat and the pedals, not only through the wheel. Now i apply that technique everywhere which even allowed me for a short period of time to hold the lap record at one of the local carting tracks with their fastest carting class. However i also found out that when they switched to electric only carts, i can't drive nearly as fast as when i could hear the engine. Turns out, at least for me, the sound from the engine is just as important as everything else or i get a distorted or dialed down sense of speed.

    • @tiaanbotes2645
      @tiaanbotes2645 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I agree I driver better irl then on a sim because of the elements available to me including the sound but mostly more feel of the car, however my own conclusion with for example of the brakes and wheel. I don't necessarily think they are lighter but I think they feel this way due to the inertia and force you have due to the speed of the car and g force. For example it would be easier to get an f1 brake to 100% with the force from the full speed of the car pushing you forward then trying to get 100% sitting in the cockpit in the garage. I assume it would be the same with the wheel with the GeForce going through your body and car that the wheel may feel lighter. If that makes sense

    • @QuantumS1ngularity
      @QuantumS1ngularity ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@tiaanbotes2645Well, when i am properly strapped in the racing seat the part of my body that moves the most is my head. When exhaling in the racing seat, while tightening the seatbelts there isn't any room for my body to move forward or even sideways. So i am really doubtful i move forward under hard braking as i would in any daily driver where the belt isn't actively gripping me into the seat. The wheel in that GT3 specced R8 was almost as light as the City Mode on a Fiat Punto. It really caught me off-guard. Granted on my sim everything is turned to 100%, but i expected that 100% means this was the actual feel in the car. Yes that's it's even heavier than my old S6's steering but i expected a GT3 car with MASSIVE slicks to be really heavy to turn, especially at low speeds.

    • @LoanwordEggcorn
      @LoanwordEggcorn 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@QuantumS1ngularity Sounds like the R8 had really high power steering settings to make the slicks physically easier to drive. That's a tuning decision and not necessarily inherent to all race spec cars. That said, it should make for easier driving, assuming it kept enough tire feel. (If you boost the power steering too much, it can really reduce tire feedback.) (Race cars without power steering can require a lot of physical force to steer, depending on the steering geometry. (More likely on converted street cars with power steering removed than a purpose built race car.))
      I think @tiaanbootes2645 may have been referring to the 6g of deceleration pushing the brake foot/leg forward and therefore requiring less muscle. We agree a properly harnessed driver's body should not move much, but legs and feet can still move, right?

  • @ElCapAddict
    @ElCapAddict ปีที่แล้ว +2374

    Because their legs are strong. Saved you 9 minutes.

    • @Drivin_Sideways
      @Drivin_Sideways ปีที่แล้ว +27

      😂😂😂

    • @woody442
      @woody442 ปีที่แล้ว +183

      Technique > Physique
      Except you're hulk, then technique doesn't matter.

    • @unclewilbur8976
      @unclewilbur8976 ปีที่แล้ว +147

      ElCap,
      Stop flaunting your ignorance.

    • @joaopedromorais4711
      @joaopedromorais4711 ปีที่แล้ว +211

      Who said we wanted those 9 minutes saved? We're here because we enjoy driver61's content

    • @therealf.b.i9468
      @therealf.b.i9468 ปีที่แล้ว +94

      Blud watch for 3 minutes and already commented 💀

  • @noidea82
    @noidea82 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    Love the simulation shots, really helps with the explanation

  • @2fast2nick
    @2fast2nick ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I've had a couple great instructors teach some of these methods on the race track. It's really amazing the difference it makes when someone properly explains it. Great video

  • @Real28
    @Real28 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Trail braking FTW
    When you nail it, man, it feels SO good. And you just make SO much time it sometimes doesnt make sense.
    But mess it up and i hope you enjoy looking back at the way you came.

  • @juzoli
    @juzoli ปีที่แล้ว +8

    You might get more grip on the front of you are breaking while turning, but also use that grip for braking, so you have less for turning. So it is absolutely not trivial how to break while cornering, but needs a lot of skill to balance it.

  • @LeoDragoGR
    @LeoDragoGR ปีที่แล้ว +3

    As a kid Hotwheels Acceleracers helped me learn a lot of the basics on driving skills and tactics that can be used for both racing and city driving. When it came to braking the quote I always remember from that series is “balance increases traction”. Have always kept that as a core fundamental for good driving

  • @MaximusGDN
    @MaximusGDN ปีที่แล้ว +3

    You can often see drivers changing brake bias just before attempting an overtaking move aswell. That's really impresive to see as they have to do it in a very short amount of time

  • @Dropped2436
    @Dropped2436 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    4:55 they're pretty good and helpful and please keep them but why are they like at 15fps

  • @Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab
    @Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Porsche Experience Silverstone taught me trail-braking and I could easily feel how much quicker & how much more stability the car had as a result. (Lady instructor too) 👍🏻

    • @F1Guy-Guy
      @F1Guy-Guy 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      And Lewis Hamilton taught you your slow 😂

  • @aaronb9630
    @aaronb9630 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I love the sim stuff. I get to watch it done properly by the experts all the time, seeing it done wrong and how it actually effects you times is exceptionally helpful.

  • @ishraqshams101
    @ishraqshams101 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    the simulation shots definitely helps alot in understanding difficult concepts specially for people like me who have next to nothing real life experience, only technical knowledge. however, the footage is a bit choppy so you might want to look into that

  • @christopherrose626
    @christopherrose626 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Fascinating explanation of what appears to be a simple process Scott. Really well illustrates the problem of not trailbraking on track which applies to any car as well as the differences between braking in a downforce grip dominated car versus a car with little no no downforce. My only minor quibble is I do recall being taught to trail-brake at Skip Barber Driving School back in the 90's but then I did a full 3-day class and not a driving experience so perhaps that is why I got better schooled. It is really obvious that is you are totally off the brakes then the car has less grip but also that you want to transition from brake to throttle quickly but smoothly ensuring you are trying to keep enough backend for the car to be stable as you come off the brake. How F1 drivers manage to do this braking and balancing so delicately given how compressed the time is for them and the sheer forces involved is something that never ceases to amaze me because I could barely do it in a lowish donforce race car. I really wish F1 would do more pedal camera coverage because as you so eloquently point out this is perhaps the most difficult skill and at traces of speed or even g forces doesnt show the subtleties involved. Great video!

  • @rupertm2542
    @rupertm2542 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This where I won all my b road battles as a youth. Love the feeling you get as the back comes around as you turn in.

  • @dalewier9735
    @dalewier9735 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great use of examples to illustrate your point. Because i have never raced, i don't have any reference of just how much finesse and timing goes into making "fast" corners. Thank you, you have taught me what i did not know AND increased my appreciation for the skill required to be a worldclass F1 driver.

    • @bruzote
      @bruzote ปีที่แล้ว

      Right? 300 lbs of force on the brakes? WTF? Well, at least that will lighten the load on the driver's groin belts, so there is motivation to push on those pedals!

    • @dalewier9735
      @dalewier9735 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@bruzote I have wondered how the force needed to brake has effected the driver in a crash. I would think it would cause a lot of leg, ankle, and foot injuries on the side that brakes. And with force being applied to only one side, does it cause back and hip injuries from the small but violent twist that must occur with one leg pushing with the other often not pushing.

  • @tommissouri4871
    @tommissouri4871 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This was a very good presentation on braking.
    At Sebring one race, I had an F500 driver ask me in impound just what I was using for a braking point. He had been following me into the Hairpin (the real one, not that new squiggle) and had finally chickened out, thinking something was messed up on my car that wasn't indicating any braking. He couldn't believe I didn't brake until well into the turn and was back off again before the apex. He had been braking just as he turned in, but an F500 is small enough with giant brakes that braking the width of the track was more than the distance one needed to brake. He also braked there as he was still somewhat straight and trying to use straight-line braking.
    Just to rattle him, I told him the apex point was my braking point. I really almost was a a patch in the pavement about the center line was where I would brake. The patch was enough to upset the car in braking so I waited until after to brake.
    I learned to trailbrake in the early '70s, couldn't convince anyone else how much faster it was. When I wrote a paper on Wheel2Wheel in the early '90s, most said my method was nuts and that braking and accelerating at the same time wouldn't work, but a few caught on. Of course, trailbraking has been written about at least in the '70s and Donahue's Friction Circle eluded to it.
    At 8:59, your F1 vs. Driving School racing line is obvious to old autocrossers who learned almost 50 years ago to sacrifice the first corner if it led to a faster second corner leading onto a long straight to get higher straightline speed. It is also the type of line a FVee driver would use, since they have so little power, they have to get the longer run setting up the straight.

  • @yspegel
    @yspegel 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Such a great feeling when you get it right, the front digging in and the rear just slightly creeping outward.

  • @dan110024
    @dan110024 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    When Gran Turismo was first released, I bought the play book they released with it. It taught exactly this. Pretty neat.

  • @張洪鈞
    @張洪鈞 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you for explaining the detail why should push the brakes hard before turning in high speed.

  • @bumpergoed
    @bumpergoed ปีที่แล้ว

    Pausing the video to say, loved the animations, nice aid to the words. Completely saw the rear of the car talking "If you don't let me go there, i go sideways". Brilliant video

  • @M0nsieurX
    @M0nsieurX 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    One of the best videos for intermediate racers who know how to drive on the limit! Brake pedal bias is one of the best things to have in a car... And thanks for covering the adaptive changes that happen through out the live of a race session... Not boasting that I have an Ariel Atom but without any any nannies, you learn how to drive it in any condition and being able to know how limit works, how the over the limit can help really changes things. The AA is a pure driver car. Not track and down force oriented but you learn how to manage the grip or slips faster than with any other can IMOHO.
    Thanks for this video, it's like revisiting a golf pro to confirm your swing is as good as can be - if only that was true... You always get a diffenrent shot each time for every curve!

  • @SiPhillipson
    @SiPhillipson ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I once did a track day at Oulton Park in a BMW M3.
    My instructor taught me trail braking and not the normal track day way.
    Wasn't what I expected.
    It was bloody hard, but when i got it right I couldn't believe how fast it was.

    • @philipjamesparsons
      @philipjamesparsons ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Some instructors encourage it and others discourage it. I was introduced to it by former XR2 champion, Ray Grimes. I later did a session with another instructor at Oulton. Asked about trail braking, he told me not too as it made the rear lively. Well, one thing is for sure, once you get the hang of it there is no going back.

  • @rienkhoek4169
    @rienkhoek4169 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I was just wondering watching the f1 race today; sometimes they show brake and throttle action on screen. But where throttle is moderated throughout the corners, the brake is shown as either full on or full off, despite being the same kind of graph. I assumed that was odd and your video shows it is indeed not how it is actually done. Thanks! Excellent timing. :)

  • @JacquesErasmus_irjaak
    @JacquesErasmus_irjaak ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You gave me a different perspective on how good these guys actually are, thank you 🤛

  • @Domawari
    @Domawari ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The sim footage is great! I recommend a higher FPS, so that we can see what's happening more clearly

  • @LoanwordEggcorn
    @LoanwordEggcorn 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks for a really good explanation of trail braking in non-downforce cars AND matching of braking to downforce in cars with downforce.
    The simulator footage was very helpful in showing load transfer better.

  • @craigbishop9972
    @craigbishop9972 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great video explanation! However when I first went to driving school in 1977 at Bondurant one of the major things they were trying to teach us was the "Mark Donahue circle of traction""and trail braking. I thought that "brake in a straight line" went out in the 60's.

  • @bilboswaggings
    @bilboswaggings ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Love these simulations
    No need to deal with fair use and clip collecting and allows you guys to more choice in how and from which angles you want to show something to us

  • @helterskelter416
    @helterskelter416 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    when i used to autocross, the very best bit of braking advice i was ever given was to "think of there being a wire around the steering column, where turning the steering wheel winds up the wire and pulls up on the pedals" (not clutch pedal). if you are perfectly straight you can be 100% on each pedal, but the more steering input you give the less pedal depression should be occurring. it doesn't work for every situation of course, but for teaching rookies it helps them a lot more than telling the to "just brake in a straight line" or "look ahead" in terms of figuring out how hard they can brake or accelerate at certain points. I'm not sure how successful it'd be for the track, since we needed the car to do lots of different things back to back really fast and normally without knowing what the racing line actually was at the start.

  • @InherentlyArtless
    @InherentlyArtless ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Agree with others that the sim shots are great but the framerate needs to be the same as the rest of the video. TH-cam says the video is 24fps but I imagine iRacing was recorded at 30 or 60. Having the footage recorded at a multiple of 24 would look much better. OBS should be able to do this but you may need to cap the framerate of iRacing as well either in game or through the graphics card settings.

  • @andrewgillis4977
    @andrewgillis4977 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I agree with the others about the frame rate issue. One suggestion: g-force meter to show the increased grip force and the process of transferring the weight; good example of how you like to emphasize "blending" the various steps of cornering. Would it also be important to discuss steering inputs (how much input, what rate, etc.). Lastly, in some other videos on trail braking you spoke about trying to backwards engineer your trail braking - because finding the exact point isn't the same every time, with every car, etc.
    Sorry if that is a bit much to understand, kind of hard to put into text. Hope this is useful!

  • @F1-Passion
    @F1-Passion ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I’ve always wondered Scott, is it true that Carbon Brakes are terrible until they are up to temperature? Thanks

    • @bevanmcnicholl2525
      @bevanmcnicholl2525 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      From what I know, yes. Feels equal to having worn brake pads, jamming the brake in and getting next to nothing.

    • @weirdboy7
      @weirdboy7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yes, they have to warm up a bit first. Opposite of steel brakes.

    • @F1-Passion
      @F1-Passion ปีที่แล้ว

      @@weirdboy7 so why do the f1 teams when finishing a session have brake blowers to cool the brakes, or just at the start of the races too as I remember?

    • @dr4d1s
      @dr4d1s ปีที่แล้ว +3

      ​@@F1-PassionFrom what I have been able to find, carbon-carbon doesn't cool down very fast once up to temperature. I would guess that they want to cool them down as fast as they can so the heat doesn't soak into the surrounding materials/parts. Since there is not an insane amount of air moving past them once stationary, it would take even longer, hence the blowers. I could be very wrong and I encourage someone to correct me if I am. Most of my knowledge/understanding is from aerospace and not from racing or car engineering.

    • @weirdboy7
      @weirdboy7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@F1-Passion Because the car has been braking really hard throughout its laps. You have to realize how much energy it takes to stop a car from ~300KPH down to about 100KPH or so. Massive amounts of energy. At that point the brake discs are close to, if not at 1000°C, if they were left at that temperature for too long, they would catch on fire. Which is why when the car comes into the pits, the mechanics scramble to blow supercool air (with special blowers full of dry ice) into the ducts. As an edit, I have heard that ceramic materials hold on to heat very well, therefore they would take too long to cool down if they were just left stationary. And also, you don't want your $1M+ car to catch on fire. That would be pretty bad and costly for the team.

  • @ayampop8923
    @ayampop8923 ปีที่แล้ว

    I know trail braking for quite a while but didn't know what was it for. now that I got this beautiful explanation and I do it straight away to my racing game and wow, it helps me turn a lot faster.

  • @benstewart8987
    @benstewart8987 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    These videos are so informational! I would love to see more in this series

  • @finnsheep-cx1mg
    @finnsheep-cx1mg 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Same goes for motorcycles -- trail braking is an essential race skill along with using the back brake which many novices do not use at the track.

  • @cpjtaylor
    @cpjtaylor ปีที่แล้ว

    The sim footage really helps understand what is happening for us visual folk

  • @FreshBlade-l8v
    @FreshBlade-l8v 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    very helpful for the past couple of years people have been telling me trail breaking isnt the fastest and i should stop doing it

  • @word67
    @word67 ปีที่แล้ว

    I took the SKip Barber course at Lime Rock way back in 1980. To his credit the Barber school taught trail braking. They actually distinguished themselves from other schools advertising "trailing throttle oversteer." I think that was the phrase -- at any rate they started off with the friction circle to introduce the physics.

  • @views40
    @views40 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The SIM animations are SUPER helpful!! Superb video. Cheers!

  • @maksimivanov5417
    @maksimivanov5417 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Wow that's a real revelation for me. I played years in computer sims but still couldn't get how could the faster guys manage to brake so lately and still make the turn. I thought braking in a corner always leads to a lock-up - wow that's some news if not only it doesn't, but it also helps to make the corner faster!

  • @larsl7483
    @larsl7483 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Simshots are super useful with your explanation. 👍

  • @Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab
    @Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Yes indeed! Just look up the Mclaren MP4/12 'Brake steer' car because that harnessed these priciples to give a handling & speed benefit. 👍🏻

  • @brown_recluse_human3458
    @brown_recluse_human3458 ปีที่แล้ว

    The sim footage is a HUGE help! Please keep it in.

  • @erictripton
    @erictripton 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    UHm.....I disagree. I learned two techniques. Brake easy, bring momentum down enough for suspension to be balanced and ACCELERATE smoothly AT CORNER ENTRY. When done correctly, your exit speed is massive...as taught by Jacky Stewart
    Next is the Schumacher style of braking to the apex. While you come in hot, brake easy but not enough to unsettle the car, but come off once you hit the apex. This is more controlled way of dive bombing..... as taught by Peter Windsor

  • @digitalartizen
    @digitalartizen ปีที่แล้ว

    I like the animated actions shots!, It helps explain things clearer.

  • @Markbell73
    @Markbell73 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    There are some race footage clips of Frankenmacher driving the F2004 with throttle and braking graphics, that show him putting on a master class of this very technique.
    That never got old to watch. And in his prime, he could do this like no other driver. Driving an entire stint like it was one big continuous lap time.
    And the entire race like it was 3 really long laps in a typical 2 stop race.
    I've been watching racing of all sorts for 45 years. Never saw another driver link every part of a race together with seamless cohesion like Michael Schumacher could. Not even The Professor Prost could do it quite like Schumy.

    • @MENQN
      @MENQN 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Markbell73 But the problem is that bloody black fella Hamilton he's much better at braking latest and Driving it the awful wet

  • @sproutpits
    @sproutpits ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The book "The Perfect Corner" covers this in great detail, and in a way that's pretty intuitive -- at least to me.

    • @philipjamesparsons
      @philipjamesparsons ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I'll check that one out. Michael Krumm also does a good job in Driving on the Edge.

  • @CarAndMechanical
    @CarAndMechanical ปีที่แล้ว

    This was handy and something that I found interesting - I've had instruction from 4 different instructors and although all were racing drivers only the active one had me trail brake...this makes more sense now!
    I've actually decided to get a bit more into sims to understand practical line work better and this video certainly adds to the help.

  • @uiebattles
    @uiebattles ปีที่แล้ว

    👍🏼 great video. Understanding braking makes racing so much more interesting.

  • @ProjectswAlex
    @ProjectswAlex ปีที่แล้ว

    Really liked the sim shot to see the shift in weight. Seemed very appropriate.

  • @prijken
    @prijken หลายเดือนก่อน

    Braking in a straight line before turning was developed for the old Porsche 911 racing, as those cars were notorious for oversteer, so you wanted to come in the corner with sufficient understeer to counterbalance this. Since it is such an easy and safe method to teach the driving schools have stuck with that.

  • @nfn7121
    @nfn7121 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Anyway to do side by side showing the brake it self as the car travels at the corner and around the corner,etc maybe include the gas pedal as well.

  • @tallesmagno201
    @tallesmagno201 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I never got taught this brake then turn method, but I dont like trail-braking either as it makes the car too unstable. I just went with a throttle/brake blend that kept the pitch of the car to my liking.

  • @AZM3DIA
    @AZM3DIA 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    what helped me the most was reading to pretend there is a string going from your hands to your brake foot. As you turn you lift off the brake the more turn angle you have

  • @Owrock24
    @Owrock24 ปีที่แล้ว

    the simulator references are spectacular and much appreciated. You definitely should do them more for your different videos.

  • @Housesider
    @Housesider ปีที่แล้ว +6

    The sim footage is a great idea and should absolutely be kept going forward, as not only are the visualizations helpful for newbies and adepts alike, but they're also great for showing errors and mistakes and the resulting consequences, without racking up major debt on mechanical repairs or loss of personal functionality/life 😜. Just needs to ensure that the sim footage is captured or encoded at a proper framerate (30fps minimum but 60fps would be ideal) as well as the YT video itself to enable smooth video playback.

  • @pocok5000
    @pocok5000 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The one thing i learned during my brief sim racing carrier is that braking is everything

  • @getahanddown
    @getahanddown ปีที่แล้ว

    I have a low power fwd with good brakes, suspension and tyres.
    Watching the S2000 rotate under brakes, letting the rear float around is very familiar lol.
    Allows scary late braking that seamlessly moves into controlled rotation / uses braking energy to turn. Very satisfying to get in the groove on some back roads

  • @8triagrammer
    @8triagrammer 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +55

    Who's here because they want to get better at Gran Turismo 7...

    • @ThisTooWillDo
      @ThisTooWillDo 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I just started playing f1 23 cus it’s free to download on Xbox lol

    • @mikelacroix1882
      @mikelacroix1882 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Acc / iracing / gt7. 😀

    • @ryuujisan32codes
      @ryuujisan32codes 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Here here!

    • @hemendraravi4787
      @hemendraravi4787 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Ac

  • @Merrlin
    @Merrlin 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The simulations are beautiful! I myself have trouble fully comprehending things explained to me if I don’t have a visual reference, like I get the concept but not fully see how it’s applied

  • @mclarenjohnf1
    @mclarenjohnf1 ปีที่แล้ว

    Some of what you mention about braking in to the corner I picked up driving with out a brake servo in my early years of driving, so when swapping cars I just adapted, that also applied to power steering, my brother in law borrowed my van without power steering and lasted a whole mile before bringing it back claiming it was too hard to drive. and now we have anti lock brakes people would be lost if you took all the aids away.
    Your sim illustrations do add another form of reference to bless us with your wisdom and that is good as Clarkson would say.

  • @Marcoboyle00
    @Marcoboyle00 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    the iracing footage is fantastic at showing the comparisons, but i wonder if you could record it at 120fps, so that when you slow the footage down, its still at 60fps, making it look less choppy in slow motion? it actually looks like its slowed down to liek 1/4 speed which would be 15fps which is maybe why it seems just so choppy? dunno,

  • @kpsig
    @kpsig 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It also depends on the weight distribution and if the car is front rear or mid engined. This technique applied with a fast hatch FWD that has the engine hanging above the front wheels can really put you in trouble and spin uncontrollably.

  • @iantsears
    @iantsears 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great and methodical video. Would you consider taking one to the next level and detail how they manage the five (5) aspects of braking:
    Example uses a left-hand turn...
    1. Initial straight line (braking) (fronts load equally)
    2. Corner Entry (front right loads, rear left unloads)
    3. Apex (outer tires load, inner tires unload)
    4. Corner Exit (rear right loads, front left unloads)
    5. Acceleration (rears load, fronts unload)
    I'm referring to the "walking" of the loaded (and also the unloaded opposite) tire(s) through the phases.
    I ask because *this* is the feel we "feel" in optimum trail braking.
    Do please consider it, as I can tell you are capable of conveying it well!
    And, if you have time, a video describing the choice of apex by the *straight* being either prior to, or after the corner...

  • @Andrei5656
    @Andrei5656 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love the sim shots, because visualizing what you're explaining is better for noobs like myself, that lack the technical vocabulary for what you're explaining. It helps learn. Though I would really appreciate you record them on a better PC to have better image framerates. It's pretty stuttery, as is.

  • @surfer101ist
    @surfer101ist ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Love the sim footage! Extra points for it being Iracing!!!

  • @hpmmiggie
    @hpmmiggie ปีที่แล้ว

    Your videos are great. I wouldn't really watch F1 naturally (just love bikes that much). But the technical insights just keeps me coming back. Kudos.

  • @camilovillamizar6171
    @camilovillamizar6171 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sim shots look great and help lots. Thanks!

  • @BillyBoy-v3i
    @BillyBoy-v3i 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

    That depends on the race car! If you are in a GP car with wings ( or downforce) or a Porsche gt3 yes. But as you turn release the brake in a basic car will stabilise the rear.

  • @clueless4085
    @clueless4085 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video as usual.
    The clips from the sims really help to visuallze what youre talking about.
    Ive become many seconds faster in the sim since I started watching your videos. Cheers.
    ps Cant wait to see you driving on the ceiling, you nutter.

  • @alisioardiona727
    @alisioardiona727 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Before changing brake bias during the lap george should focus on not hitting walls during the braking phase.

  • @saissevictor
    @saissevictor ปีที่แล้ว +1

    it took me ages to learn this in F1 games with no assist, but once you master it, the lap times just get a thousand times quicker

  • @ElementsMMA
    @ElementsMMA 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    7:11 that shot of the drivers feet is the point proved in less than 4 seconds.

  • @R3troZone
    @R3troZone 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Short answer:
    When you continue to brake through the turn the cars weight is transferred to the front axle due to sudden momentum loss. The added weight on the front tires increases grip through the turn allowing you to get back up to speed faster through the apex.

  • @radiospank
    @radiospank ปีที่แล้ว

    great examples, i learned alot from sim racing in iracing. kinda figured out the trailbraking with trial and error. Wish i saw this vid first.

  • @stevenpang0423
    @stevenpang0423 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I knew it, braking in a straight line as a concept never make any sense to me, like why will braking earlier than needed be faster. Thanks you for letting me know at least on a concept level I was correct all those years ago.

    • @isuckatthisgame
      @isuckatthisgame ปีที่แล้ว +2

      He didn't say you shouldn't brake in a straight line, he suggests you should at some point start steering by modulating brake vector. Braking in a straight line on the entry phase is a must in order to achieve the shortest possible braking path (i.e. brake as late as possible). Every (hard) braking zone starts, in fact, in a straight line and remains until you slow down enough to open up your steering vector. And some corners have bends or be at the top of the hill, so you won't be able to carry the same amount of speed due to the inherent terrain characteristics and will need cascading.

  • @DenisLupo35
    @DenisLupo35 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very good job Scott. Love your work. Sim video very useful as well.

  • @sammorrissey9094
    @sammorrissey9094 ปีที่แล้ว

    As others mentioned, sim stuff is definitely useful, ideally at a non choppy frame rate though

  • @nicorenco
    @nicorenco ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video as always, but either the party last night was epic or you smoked the good stuff moments before filming. 😅

  • @NoferTrunions
    @NoferTrunions 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    You can steer your car around a carousel by applying throttle to go wide and lift to turn in. Trail braking gets real weird in a sharp corner when you have massive understeer.

  • @Technotranceism
    @Technotranceism ปีที่แล้ว

    I've always come in hot and heavy while still straight, and very slowly begin releasing the brakes while turning into the turn, still trail braking to the point the cars front end becomes highly responsive and I can feed the throttle.

  • @R6Seagull
    @R6Seagull 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Never heard of trail breaking before. I’ll use this knowledge next time I hit the go kart track.

  • @doric_historic
    @doric_historic ปีที่แล้ว +1

    My racing experience was Daytona Oval which required using the brake once in 8 laps to stop in the pits...

  • @kogagreg
    @kogagreg 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The sim views are helpful.
    Can you please make a video explaining how on earth they’re able to adjust brake bias multiple times per lap? Where does one even begin with this?

  • @PurXion_777
    @PurXion_777 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    In summary, real racing 3 braking on corners

  • @engared
    @engared 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Karting is the best trainer for this.
    How I teach the kids I train: When u are new, you will brake too late. Then u get a bit of experience, you will brake too early. Then u will steadily brake a bit later and later. Then you will figure it out and will be braking much much later than when you started!

  • @DunkdaHunk
    @DunkdaHunk ปีที่แล้ว

    I started sim racing earlier this year, and as I've learned to trail brake more proficiently over the course of the year.
    On lfm my license laps were around zolder, where I was averaging 1:33s, and then this week I'm averaging 1:29s despite not racing on the track since I first did the license. For those wondering this is on acc.

  • @madpower1977
    @madpower1977 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Good one.always learning.nice too see i was doing it ok...but now i know the right way for a type of car

  • @timothyoswald8618
    @timothyoswald8618 ปีที่แล้ว

    The sim clips are very illustrative!

  • @q3aryoko
    @q3aryoko ปีที่แล้ว +1

    yea when i drive on the sim in an F1 car, its why im slow, i dont have the confidence to brake in a turn. My whole life driving sports cars on tracks i have to break on the straight (never took driving classes, just learned by trial and error) before the turn. It feels sooo foreign to break into a turn to me. Even in my Sim. But i guess, racing as much as an F1 driver races, that become second nature. Great video!

    • @philipjamesparsons
      @philipjamesparsons ปีที่แล้ว

      You may need to modify your lines a bit to make it work. Driving on the Edge by Michael Krumm, is a book that covers this well.

  • @Bare_Essence
    @Bare_Essence ปีที่แล้ว

    The simulation gave a great view. It makes perfect sense once you see it. Thanks!

  • @hamie63_m
    @hamie63_m ปีที่แล้ว

    I taught myself this on the streets taking the long ways home from work because they have an interesting turn or two

  • @KennyMcCray
    @KennyMcCray ปีที่แล้ว

    I think learning straight line braking and getting the use of braking and turn in points down is super important to nail first before learning trail braking… but I super appreciate this video.
    I’m a few seasons into doing autocross and have also have a handful of HPDE days… and I sim race. I’m just now getting to learning the trail braking and I’m getting a lot faster as I have started to learn how to rotate the car.
    But, as I’m learning I’m also finding that sometimes i need to go back to basics for a few laps… otherwise I find that I’m going waaay to deep in a lot of corners.
    I’m self taught, so videos like these are really helpful for internalizing the techniques.