Best video of the issue. I would really like to see you do more videos on the EG4 LifePower4. I really hope somebody at the company notices this video. They should give you a job
interesting. It sounds like the coulomb counter in the BMS is not getting reset to full when you charge to 56.2 (3.51 volts per cell). All coulomb counters drift over time and need to be periodically reset to "full" by reaching their "full" trigger voltage. Usually external coulomb counters (like Victron Smart Shunt and Renogy Battery Monitor shunt) allow setting that full trigger voltage. Even if the coulomb counter were perfect (they aren't) the battery isn't perfectly symmetrical during charge and discharge. It always takes a little bit more energy into the battery than you get out of it. Some coulomb counters allow setting this "charge efficiency" parameter. (lead-acid batteries require more during charge - are less efficient - than LiFePO4, and the old nickel-iron batteries took a LOT more). But even if you get that set correctly, a perfect coulomb counter will still drift! Because the charge efficiency of the battery will change depending on its state of charge, the temperature, and as the battery ages both in time and cycles. All coulomb counters need to hit their reset-to-full trigger every now and then! Sometimes you can use charge "equalization" settings for this, if you can set the max voltage and if you can make sure it doesn't do it too often. Quarterly would be a *plenty*. Once a year would be fine for most folks.
Excellent video, I’m going to add a off grid ground system to my house. I’m currently deciding what hardware I will be installing so info like this is useful, thanks for your video.
Whenever you have these types of batteries connected in series, or connected in parallel via bus bar, the differences in both internal resistance and resistance across the associated wiring will often result in the SOC of those batteries drifting apart. It's almost unavoidable, although modern communication protocols and technology should mitigate for this, to an extent. When I discovered this issue in my 24v system, (two 12v batteries in series) I bought an inexpensive "battery equalizer". All this unit does is sense the voltage of each battery connected in series and send small amounts of current from the battery at a slightly higher voltage to the battery at a slightly lower voltage, keeping them in synch. Victron has a unit which does this, but it bleeds off current from the higher battery, dissipating it as heat. That is less efficient, so I got the unit which puts the excess current in the other battery.
Hey Steve, great video. You might wanna do your manual charge again and leave the batteries charging for a whole day at the higher voltage. That will give the batteries time to Top Balance. You can actually see them doing this in the BMS test software. Where did you come up with 58.4v? Signature Solar reccomended a similar procedure but with two main differences. First, they suggested 58v. Second, they suggested leaving it in the "manual charging mode" for 2 weeks and charging and discharging as many times as possbile in that time. I didn't notice any differences after the first few days so YMMV. Also, I normally use Growatt/EG4 communication.
Thanks for the information, Leafnutz! (great handle) I'll try top balancing as you suggest. I have also seen someone suggest setting the float charge .1v below the bulk charge. I'll experiment and make a video to pass on the information. The 58.4v setting was from EG4's discontinued AC charger. That was its output voltage. That model is no longer available and looks like it has been replaced by the Chargeverter. I don't use BMS comm because the Growatt's firmware is too old. I'm considering upgrading to the EG4 6000XP anyway. What year is your Leaf?
@@ReelClearMediaLLC 22 SV+ I do most of my charging with a Growatt 3000 LVM-ES model and a single Lifepower 4 battery. I also use the Zencar adjustable EVSE. Was planning to switch to a Growatt 5000ES and level 2 charge but the new EG4 6000 seems like it would be a much better choice for an EV charger. Signature indicated the float voltage was irrellevant with Lithium and suggested 58v as well.
@@leafnutz2341 Thanks. I have a Growatt 5000ES i was planning on using for level2 charging also. But the EG4 6000xp is tempting... the built-in switchgear, the common neutral, generator input, surge rating, and more. I need to see if The Growatt 5000ES will start my well pump, it has a pretty hefty starting surge of around 53 amps @ 240v.
No, they've been staying within 5-10% of each other. Daily charge is set to 56.4 volts. It is likely that the firmware upgrade I did in this video has helped.
@@ReelClearMediaLLC Great!!! Mine has a similar issue. Both batteries will stay within 1 to 2% of each other SOC, but once the SOC reaches around 54%, one will show an exponential decline in its SOC, resulting in reduced usable capacity. Also, happens during charging. Batteries are less than a year.
worked on me ... on a power station .. lowered the wattage and let it charge to as much as possible at slow rates and it seems to give more capacity.. its new anyway but only a reset is never gonna be a solution to such situation . and not problem at all!!!
I am curious. When you updated the battery firmware, did you plug into battery #2 with the computer cable? Or did you have the battery jumper installed between 1 and 2 and then just went to address 1 in the software and updated #1 from there? Most people say that you need to set all addresses to 0 and plug into each battery to update and then reset all dips for coms to the inverter. This later process seems to be a few revs behind the tech times. if you ask me..
I think I left them both plugged in with the jumper between them. I didn't change the addresses on the DIP switches. Maybe I just got lucky, but both batteries updated OK.
OMG! 😠 I'm just now finding out that these batteries must be registered with eg4 within a year or you got no warranty! Signature solar told me squat and I'm also finding out they're supposed to come with paperwork which I didn't get!
Excellent video! I have the same problem with EG4 Lifepower4; with TWO units EG $6500EX 48 volts. Can you make a video on how to setup Solar Assistant firmware - please include models and pertinent information. Thank you.
If you bump your Bulk voltage upto 56.5v you won't have the drift issue (assuming you have sufficient solar a few times per month to reach 56.5v). Unless its winter...in that case its been 45 days since my batteries last saw 56v let alone 56.5v
56.5v is the point where the SOC will calibrate to 100% SOC. Technically, the BMS uses an average Cell voltage. It will also use Cell OverVoltage (COV) as an indicator. The specific details are defined in the BMS firmware changelog. 56.5v or 56.6v is the point when my Lifepower4 batteries (running v3.32 firmware) will switch to reporting 100% SOC.
Thanks, @jasoncr8419 The latest firmware for the LifePowers is 3.30, Overvoltage alarm is now 3.55v/cell or 56.8v/ pack. I've gone back to 56.2 absorption with 54v float, and I'm showing 99.x% SOC on both packs when full. But the good news is, my packs are staying within 5% of each other. I read on one of the forums that the new firmware also does top balancing.
Sure wish there was a way to go back to other firmware updates! My first battery i purchased is superior in every way to All the other three that i purchased at latter time's. I would sure hate to mess that one up!!!
How did you get both batteries to show in Solar Assistant? I just started using it and just got my small system working. 6000XP with two LL-S batteries. Thanks.
I can't be sure, since I don't have a 24 v system. You could try half of my charging voltage. I'm currently trying 56.4 and it seems to be working. So you could try half of that or 28.2v
Going crazy with this for months! Tried everything update firmware did help but I see the batteries are drifting apart again, I'll do the 58.4 equalization mode on my Outback if it happens again. Signature Solar is lost in the woods, completely incompetent, won't buy from them again - useless!
I have EG4-LL V1 (48 volts) and all the individual battery cell voltages are almost identical until the SOC gets close to 100% when a few of the individual battery cells continue to charge more than others and the BMS stops the charging. I cannot really set the absorption voltage any higher than 56.5 volts because the BMS will stop the charging (due to a few cells trying to keep going to higher voltages). I don't believe anything is wrong with the individual battery cells because their voltages are almost identical for SOC below 100%. People talk about "Top Balancing" to fix the issue but the BMS in EG4-LL V1 is no good and Signature Solar / EG4 have a tendency to come up with a newer version when they realize a design flaw instead of replacing the BMS.
I've been trying to update the firmware of my EG4 batteries, but for some reason it always fails to get boot info. I can get battery info, but I can't get boot info. I am not charging or discharging the battery as the instructions say. I downloaded the newer BMS test software, but still can't get boot info. I don't know what I could be doing wrong. My settings are the same as in the video. Any suggestions? I'm trying to look for any ideas on the DIY Solar forum.
Are you using the EG4 cable that came with the battery? I know it has a different wiring pin-out than most cables, and I believe they changed the wiring at some point. Do you have LL batteries or Lifepower4?
@@ReelClearMediaLLC I have the lifepower4 batteries. I have the cable that came with the batteries. I have 5 of the batteries. I got them in 3 separate shipments, and so I have 3 of those cables, and tried each one. They work for get battery info ok just not boot info. I did notice on a couple batteries it would disconnect from the connection when I tried to get boot info--the battery would reboot and disconnect.
@@5slabs I guess I got lucky and it just worked for me. I found this online, maybe it will help... Software can't read boot information or update if batteries are charging or discharging. Turn off breakers, and/or inverters, chargers and try again. I remember seeing that they changed the pin-out at some point. It would seem if you had the wrong cable, you wouldn't see battery information either, but I'm not sure.
@@ReelClearMediaLLC I'm not charging or discharging when I try it. I wonder if there's an issue with the batteries discharging when not used, because at the moment I have one battery connected to my inverter, and though the inverter is running off the grid, due to the low charge state of the battery, the software will show a small discharge from the battery, and that is why the inverter will eventually go into an alarm state for low battery, because it slowly keeps drawing down the battery beyond the back to grid setting. Yeah, I wouldn't think the cable would allow me to see the battery info if it was the issue. Hopefully Solar Signature will get back with me. Thanks for the input.
@@5slabs Try disconnecting the battery from the inverter. You could just turn off the DC breaker if you are using one between the battery and inverter... then see if the software will load boot info.
Best video of the issue. I would really like to see you do more videos on the EG4 LifePower4. I really hope somebody at the company notices this video. They should give you a job
I wait until my battery is fully charged and then set my bulk at 58 and immediately back down to 56.4. Great video!
interesting. It sounds like the coulomb counter in the BMS is not getting reset to full when you charge to 56.2 (3.51 volts per cell).
All coulomb counters drift over time and need to be periodically reset to "full" by reaching their "full" trigger voltage. Usually external coulomb counters (like Victron Smart Shunt and Renogy Battery Monitor shunt) allow setting that full trigger voltage.
Even if the coulomb counter were perfect (they aren't) the battery isn't perfectly symmetrical during charge and discharge. It always takes a little bit more energy into the battery than you get out of it. Some coulomb counters allow setting this "charge efficiency" parameter. (lead-acid batteries require more during charge - are less efficient - than LiFePO4, and the old nickel-iron batteries took a LOT more). But even if you get that set correctly, a perfect coulomb counter will still drift! Because the charge efficiency of the battery will change depending on its state of charge, the temperature, and as the battery ages both in time and cycles.
All coulomb counters need to hit their reset-to-full trigger every now and then! Sometimes you can use charge "equalization" settings for this, if you can set the max voltage and if you can make sure it doesn't do it too often. Quarterly would be a *plenty*. Once a year would be fine for most folks.
Thanks. The trick is trying to figure out what that trigger voltage is to reset it.
Thanks for the video! The procedure worked perfectly!
One of the best instructional videos I've seen, hands down. Thank you.
Thanks for making this video.
Excellent video, I’m going to add a off grid ground system to my house. I’m currently deciding what hardware I will be installing so info like this is useful, thanks for your video.
Glad it was helpful!
This worked perfect for me. Thank you soo much for doing this video.
Glad it helped!
This was a good explanation. Thank You.
Worked perfectly for me! Thank you.
Awesome!
Whenever you have these types of batteries connected in series, or connected in parallel via bus bar, the differences in both internal resistance and resistance across the associated wiring will often result in the SOC of those batteries drifting apart. It's almost unavoidable, although modern communication protocols and technology should mitigate for this, to an extent. When I discovered this issue in my 24v system, (two 12v batteries in series) I bought an inexpensive "battery equalizer". All this unit does is sense the voltage of each battery connected in series and send small amounts of current from the battery at a slightly higher voltage to the battery at a slightly lower voltage, keeping them in synch. Victron has a unit which does this, but it bleeds off current from the higher battery, dissipating it as heat. That is less efficient, so I got the unit which puts the excess current in the other battery.
Which one did you end up using?
Sounds good.
Thanks
COOP
...
Great video!
Hey Steve, great video. You might wanna do your manual charge again and leave the batteries charging for a whole day at the higher voltage. That will give the batteries time to Top Balance. You can actually see them doing this in the BMS test software. Where did you come up with 58.4v? Signature Solar reccomended a similar procedure but with two main differences. First, they suggested 58v. Second, they suggested leaving it in the "manual charging mode" for 2 weeks and charging and discharging as many times as possbile in that time. I didn't notice any differences after the first few days so YMMV. Also, I normally use Growatt/EG4 communication.
Thanks for the information, Leafnutz! (great handle)
I'll try top balancing as you suggest. I have also seen someone suggest setting the float charge .1v below the bulk charge. I'll experiment and make a video to pass on the information.
The 58.4v setting was from EG4's discontinued AC charger. That was its output voltage. That model is no longer available and looks like it has been replaced by the Chargeverter.
I don't use BMS comm because the Growatt's firmware is too old. I'm considering upgrading to the EG4 6000XP anyway.
What year is your Leaf?
@@ReelClearMediaLLC 22 SV+ I do most of my charging with a Growatt 3000 LVM-ES model and a single Lifepower 4 battery. I also use the Zencar adjustable EVSE. Was planning to switch to a Growatt 5000ES and level 2 charge but the new EG4 6000 seems like it would be a much better choice for an EV charger. Signature indicated the float voltage was irrellevant with Lithium and suggested 58v as well.
@@leafnutz2341 Thanks. I have a Growatt 5000ES i was planning on using for level2 charging also. But the EG4 6000xp is tempting... the built-in switchgear, the common neutral, generator input, surge rating, and more. I need to see if The Growatt 5000ES will start my well pump, it has a pretty hefty starting surge of around 53 amps @ 240v.
Great video. Has this issue occur again after this solution?
No, they've been staying within 5-10% of each other. Daily charge is set to 56.4 volts. It is likely that the firmware upgrade I did in this video has helped.
@@ReelClearMediaLLC Great!!! Mine has a similar issue. Both batteries will stay within 1 to 2% of each other SOC, but once the SOC reaches around 54%, one will show an exponential decline in its SOC, resulting in reduced usable capacity. Also, happens during charging. Batteries are less than a year.
Great video
Thanks 👍
worked on me ... on a power station .. lowered the wattage and let it charge to as much as possible at slow rates and it seems to give more capacity.. its new anyway but only a reset is never gonna be a solution to such situation . and not problem at all!!!
I am curious. When you updated the battery firmware, did you plug into battery #2 with the computer cable? Or did you have the battery jumper installed between 1 and 2 and then just went to address 1 in the software and updated #1 from there?
Most people say that you need to set all addresses to 0 and plug into each battery to update and then reset all dips for coms to the inverter. This later process seems to be a few revs behind the tech times. if you ask me..
I think I left them both plugged in with the jumper between them. I didn't change the addresses on the DIP switches. Maybe I just got lucky, but both batteries updated OK.
OMG! 😠 I'm just now finding out that these batteries must be registered with eg4 within a year or you got no warranty! Signature solar told me squat and I'm also finding out they're supposed to come with paperwork which I didn't get!
Wow, I wasn't aware of that either.
I wasn't aware of that either. Ugh
You can register your battery warranty on eg4 website.
That sounds illegal.
Excellent video! I have the same problem with EG4 Lifepower4; with TWO units EG $6500EX 48 volts. Can you make a video on how to setup Solar Assistant firmware - please include models and pertinent information. Thank you.
ok i got it will balance the soc during charging time and the question is did it balance also the soc during discharging time?
If you bump your Bulk voltage upto 56.5v you won't have the drift issue (assuming you have sufficient solar a few times per month to reach 56.5v). Unless its winter...in that case its been 45 days since my batteries last saw 56v let alone 56.5v
56.5v is the point where the SOC will calibrate to 100% SOC. Technically, the BMS uses an average Cell voltage. It will also use Cell OverVoltage (COV) as an indicator. The specific details are defined in the BMS firmware changelog. 56.5v or 56.6v is the point when my Lifepower4 batteries (running v3.32 firmware) will switch to reporting 100% SOC.
Thanks, @jasoncr8419
The latest firmware for the LifePowers is 3.30, Overvoltage alarm is now 3.55v/cell or 56.8v/ pack. I've gone back to 56.2 absorption with 54v float, and I'm showing 99.x% SOC on both packs when full. But the good news is, my packs are staying within 5% of each other. I read on one of the forums that the new firmware also does top balancing.
@@ReelClearMediaLLC I'm looking at 3.32 on the eg4 site.
I have 3.32 running on six batteries and beta testing 3.37 on six others.
@ReelClearMediaLLC I just looked at the change log and looks like SOC was changed to 99% on version 3.26 and higher.
@@ReelClearMediaLLC looks like over voltage alarm will set SOC to 100%
@@jasoncr8419 Thanks! I just updated to 3.32. The changelog doesn't show any info yet for that revision. I'll try an absorption charge of 56.6v today.
Sure wish there was a way to go back to other firmware updates! My first battery i purchased is superior in every way to All the other three that i purchased at latter time's. I would sure hate to mess that one up!!!
How is the first one better, and when did you get it?
@@ReelClearMediaLLC I purchased it a little over a year ago. It holds a charge longer and charge's way faster
How did you get both batteries to show in Solar Assistant? I just started using it and just got my small system working. 6000XP with two LL-S batteries. Thanks.
I have the batteries connected to the rasberry pi with USB. I don't have my batteries connected to my inverter, as my Growatt has older firmware.
I'm having the same issue, bit for 24v batteries. What voltage should I use to equalize the BMS on my 2 batteries?
I can't be sure, since I don't have a 24 v system. You could try half of my charging voltage. I'm currently trying 56.4 and it seems to be working. So you could try half of that or 28.2v
Hey Steve, How do I get the password to upgrade the software to V3.32?
So there is a password required?
I didn't need a password on the update page. There's a password on one of the other tabs, but I didn't need it.
Going crazy with this for months! Tried everything update firmware did help but I see the batteries are drifting apart again, I'll do the 58.4 equalization mode on my Outback if it happens again. Signature Solar is lost in the woods, completely incompetent, won't buy from them again - useless!
I have EG4-LL V1 (48 volts) and all the individual battery cell voltages are almost identical until the SOC gets close to 100% when a few of the individual battery cells continue to charge more than others and the BMS stops the charging. I cannot really set the absorption voltage any higher than 56.5 volts because the BMS will stop the charging (due to a few cells trying to keep going to higher voltages). I don't believe anything is wrong with the individual battery cells because their voltages are almost identical for SOC below 100%. People talk about "Top Balancing" to fix the issue but the BMS in EG4-LL V1 is no good and Signature Solar / EG4 have a tendency to come up with a newer version when they realize a design flaw instead of replacing the BMS.
Sorry to hear that. You might try to update the firmware? Not sure if it would help.
At least the BMS protects you from overcharging.
I've been trying to update the firmware of my EG4 batteries, but for some reason it always fails to get boot info. I can get battery info, but I can't get boot info. I am not charging or discharging the battery as the instructions say. I downloaded the newer BMS test software, but still can't get boot info. I don't know what I could be doing wrong. My settings are the same as in the video. Any suggestions? I'm trying to look for any ideas on the DIY Solar forum.
Are you using the EG4 cable that came with the battery? I know it has a different wiring pin-out than most cables, and I believe they changed the wiring at some point.
Do you have LL batteries or Lifepower4?
@@ReelClearMediaLLC I have the lifepower4 batteries. I have the cable that came with the batteries. I have 5 of the batteries. I got them in 3 separate shipments, and so I have 3 of those cables, and tried each one. They work for get battery info ok just not boot info. I did notice on a couple batteries it would disconnect from the connection when I tried to get boot info--the battery would reboot and disconnect.
@@5slabs I guess I got lucky and it just worked for me. I found this online, maybe it will help...
Software can't read boot information or update if batteries are charging or discharging. Turn off breakers, and/or inverters, chargers and try again.
I remember seeing that they changed the pin-out at some point. It would seem if you had the wrong cable, you wouldn't see battery information either, but I'm not sure.
@@ReelClearMediaLLC I'm not charging or discharging when I try it. I wonder if there's an issue with the batteries discharging when not used, because at the moment I have one battery connected to my inverter, and though the inverter is running off the grid, due to the low charge state of the battery, the software will show a small discharge from the battery, and that is why the inverter will eventually go into an alarm state for low battery, because it slowly keeps drawing down the battery beyond the back to grid setting. Yeah, I wouldn't think the cable would allow me to see the battery info if it was the issue. Hopefully Solar Signature will get back with me. Thanks for the input.
@@5slabs Try disconnecting the battery from the inverter. You could just turn off the DC breaker if you are using one between the battery and inverter... then see if the software will load boot info.