I found the decreasing lofts and increasing club lengths over time very interesting! All to sell more golf clubs - "my new 6-iron is longer", because it's now a 5, with 6 stamped on it!
Yup it’s certainly tough to think what other reasons there were for it. Will be interesting to see where it ends up and if at some point there comes a switch to lofts rather than numbers stamped. Is happening already with utility irons so no reason why they may not doing the same on all irons.
@@GolfingFocus The Ben Hogan Golf Equipment Company brought out the Fort Worth 15 irons in 2015 with lofts stamped (rather than an iron number), so it has already happened. 'Just lofts' is probably too complicated for the weekend hacker. Otherwise, we're all going to end up with seven wedges as they keep on jacking up lofts! Bridgestone already has had a PW with 38* loft in one of their sets. PS Last month I played with our lady club pro, who had five wedges in her bag, and she plays in some pro tournament golf events.
@@drrob1963great point about the difficulty marketing irons with just lofts. I probably wouldn’t get it easily myself after having played for years so very tough for newer players as you say.
This was very helpful information for someone who just recently returned to golf after a well over a decade out of the game. It's nice to get some perspective on my own distances as they're a lot higher than I typically lead myself to believe.
Ego is a big killer of scores for sure Mark. Just because you hit a shot once doesn't mean you can do it over and over again. What makes the game so great!
I’m a 12 hcp and hit 5 iron 200, 4 iron 210, 3i 220, 5 wood 230, don’t even bother with a 3w anymore but that one was around 240-250, Driver is 260-290. I play about once a month. I don’t agree hcp is correlated to distance but do agree your distance determines which tees to play.
Those are great distances and especially if you are playing only once a month. Know you don't agree that there's a clear correlation to handicap but hopefully someone can convince you one day. As with the distance you are hitting the ball there is definitely scope for your handicap to plummet from 12!
@@GolfingFocus I’m 62 now and golf is expensive but don’t care about score much anyway, just the scenery and the nice shots. Used to be a 5 about 20 years ago and to go lower required more practice than I was willing to spend. I know 5 handicappers and they play 6200 yards but when they play back at 7100 yds, they shoot in the high 90s. If I play 6200 yds, driver rarely gets to play since all I need is my 3 iron so I figure play back and use all my clubs.
@@Oldwiseguy-59 Interesting and thanks for sharing. I am in close the same boat as you were now in that in my mid-40s and playing off 6. Not sure I enjoy playing over 7000 as much as you though. Is far too long for me if I'm being honest with myself and find I'm just constantly hitting driver, 3-wood and hybrids and never using any mid-irons throughout the round. Maybe I just need to get better however although as you say that always means dedicating the time which isn't always easy!
@@GolfingFocus agree with you but since I play approximately white 6400 about 30%, blue 6800 about 60% and gold/black 7000+ about 20% of the time this allows me to play all shots and all irons and irrespective of score I feel I’m a better all around golfer for it. I don’t need perfect lies and favourite distances to post a good score, I have every shot there is in my bag just not as consistent as I used to be and this is why I play golf, not to post great scores but the scenery from different tees and different courses. Like fishing and skiing, the pleasure to participate, not win. Too many people play one yardage or one set of tees and for me that takes away the fun that golf provides. I used to be a 5 and now since I only play once or twice a month I’m a 12-15 and don’t even post scores anymore but I practice 2x a week and never get upset on the course - you can talk, sneeze whatever, I’m in the moment and tune it all out. At 63 I have players hockey for 50+ years which I stopped a few years back and have other hobbies as well like ADV motorcycle trips, fishing, tennis, camping, boating, snowmobiling and skiing.
Those probably aren't your averages, they are probably your max/ideal distances. You don't hit every shot perfectly. One flub can screw up an average for a long time.
Excellent, really valuable & helpful advice. For slow swing speeds a 3 wood can produce less distance than a 5 wood. I have subscribed as I welcome good sensible recommendations. Thank you.
good stuff, keep it coming. Good to see my 5 wood is where it should be, but i wouldn't touch a 3 wood with a barge pole, in fact i would probably hit a barge pole better.
Many thanks and much appreciated! Think you could be right on the 3-wood approach and something I'm thinking about myself. Have had a 13 degree 3-wood in the bag for a long time now and looking at these numbers again and my own it's maybe not the most sensible idea I've ever had!
@@dry509 Thanks for sharing and think that's a relatively common scenario. Alot of people stay away from a 3 wood these days although with the continual search for more distance I must confess I'm a bit reluctant to let mine go. Maybe I should start listening more to what others are doing though!
Really well presented as usual. I think there is a debate regarding putting a 1-iron in the bag and a 4-wood to replace the 3&5. Golf is funny isn’t it? We end up going round in circles and arriving at the same place that we started from 😂
People really need to pay attention to how far they are hitting all of their clubs particularly at the top of their bag because that is where redundancies are more likely to happen with lower swing speeds. Knowing how far you hit all of your clubs is a tremendous value
Great point and it's such an easy thing to do and control in a sport where we have so little control generally! Getting the right gap between your clubs is key as you say and it definitely makes a difference!
I recently discovered that I hit my 5 wood farther and more accurately than my 3 wood. It frees up space for a 4 iron which has come in really handy. I hit my 5 wood around 200 yards with a swing speed in the mid 80's, I wonder where he got these stats.
Thanks for sharing and being able to hit your 5-wood further than your 3 seems to be more common than I initially thought. The stats in this video come mainly from Arccos which has over half a million amateur shots in their database now and so they’re now able to provide some great comparisons across all standards of player which hopefully can help.
It should be simple stats based on all tracked shots including bad shots, and probably also shots from female and senior. The senior golfers might even contribute more FW shots.
206-176. That’s my Performance Average vs Average for 3 Wood this season. (40 Tee/84 Off The Deck). I’m in the upper end of that 16-20 HCP. I roll with ShotScope not Arccos, but I believe they offer similar data where you can track how far the productive shots roll out to vs how far all shots go. These two numbers are helpful to reign in my expectations. I’m gonna rip 225 as often as I clunk a 60 yarder. However, those raw 3W numbers are 10 yards more than my 5 Wood. It’s then 7 Wood where recently there isn’t much separation in distance between 5W-7W because my 7 Wood has a cut down driver shaft that’s a touch lighter, but still the same brand Project X Cypher shaft as in my 5 wood. For this reason I currently have a D-3W-7W bag to simplify the club selection process. Living in SoCal I’ve had the weather cooperate to where I’ve hit 3W-5W-7W all 100+ times on purpose. It’s really helpful to have some kind of stat tracking sensors/watches/apps for comparison purposes not just for distance, but for the various accuracy stats and strokes gained data for Tee, Approach, Short Game & Putting (if you take the time to enter how far your putts were on the green by stepping them off). Middle of the road swing speed and sometimes bogey golfer I realize the 3W-7W gives me great separation, but if I wanted to seek consistent launch while simplifying the process even more I could probably shoot the same scores with a D-5W-5 Hybrid. My guess is the target audience of this video doesn’t really need 14 clubs in the bag while seeking improvement. I’m at 10 clubs, despite owning way more than 14.😂 It helps the mental process, but I digress.
I roll with ShotScope, and a D-3W-5W-7W. I My fairway woods are the best part of my game. While I'm officially a 17 handicap, my distances come out 227/197/193/183, which is more like a 5 handicap. There is actually more separation between the 3w and 5w than it appears as, into the wind on the second shot on a Par 5, I will choose a 3W, while with the wind I will pick the 5 wood. Thus, call it 227/200/190/183. As far as the hybrid question, the goal is to pick a set of clubs that you hit well, and which also gives you good spacing, so that whatever distance you need, you know what club to use.
I'm a high handicapper (23index) I used to hit my 5 wood around 200-210 yards, but some days I just really struggled with it. I only ever used it from the tee when the green was too close for a driver. I've recently retired my 5 wood, because I now use cleveland xl halo irons... No need for a fairway wood when I've now got the supergiving and consistent options of xl halo long irons...
Great stuff Jack and delighted the halo long irons and working out. They are loads of great options for longer clubs now for sure with the driving irons, hybrids and game improvement clubs and we should all be taking full advantage of them where we can.
@@dry509 In my bag at the moment I have: Ping G425 max driver 12° XL halo 4 hybrid XL Halo 5-pw Cleveland cbx2 wedges And a smart sole chipper *all regular or wedge flex and all graphite shafts (it's all about forgiveness for me, make the game easy as much as possible) I've also got a xl halo 4 iron, but I haven't got the hang of it yet, so its not bagged currently. I realise I have a lot of clevelands, I don't have any sort of fetish with them lol I genuinely tried tonnes of clubs before landing on them, including: Irons----- Cobra f max Cobra one length Callaway XR Callaway XR OS Callaway Maverick Cleveland HB turbo Taylormade Tour Preferred cb Taylormade Tour Preferred mb Ping G series Ping g425 Odyssey X-act tank chipper I got fitted for the g425 max, so I tried most of the up to date drivers (stealth, cobra, callaway etc), except the cleveland xl halo funnily enough I swear by all the clubs in my bag currently. They all live up to the hype.
@@Jack-xy4fy Thanks for the reply. I am around the same handicap so this is helpful info. What shaft flex on your driver and irons? Oh I see that you have regular flex.
There are not too many overall. Are only roughly 1.6% of golfers in the US with a scratch handicap or better and that's just those with a recorded handicap so actual percentage of golfers will be much less in all likelihood. Percentage of those that are 60 years + will then be smaller again for sure!
Swing speed is more of a factor with distance than HDCP. As I have gotten older my HDCP is basically the same but the swing speed has dropped as has my carry distances.
"Statistical analysis of golf is sketchy at best." That's a big statement! Think the godfather of modern golf stats - Professor Mark Broadie of the Data Science Institute at Columbia Business School - may take issue with you on that score.
Can you explain the relationship to the two charts? I'm confused. According to the first table, a scratch to 5 handicap hits a five wood a total distance of 175 yards off the deck. According to the second table, a swing speed of 80 mph with a 5 wood results in a carry of 164, and probably a total distance of 180 or so. Should I reach the conclusion that a scratch to 5 handicap, on average, uses a swing speed of only 80 mph with a 5 wood? I would have guessed a lot higher, and thus, longer carry.
Hi Carl, there is no direct relationship between the two tables. The first is taken from Arccos database of millions of golf shots by handicap whereas the second data set by swingspeed is based on calculated estimates based on how far amateurs can expect to hit their driver based on their swingspeed. A database of amateur distance data by swingspeed doesn't exist unfortunately so only estimates can be made and as a result are less robust than the handicap data. The basic point is of course simply that as swingspeed increases so does distance on average however the precise swingspeed data given it is estimated can only really be said to be a guide. Hope that helps.
Just a quick question, I get that the faster the swing speed and more distance is going to directly reduce scores, but I’m playing off a 17 right now and my driver swing speed is about 90. I’m not going to get loads faster, so will I ever be able to be a single digit player with a slower speed. I’m not hitting driver 250. I’m in my 50’s….only down hill from here.
there's still your putting and short game., and play off more forward tees. I know plenty of single digit seniors, but it will be difficult i am afraid. Work on accuracy as well.
Great question Scott. Swingspeed as you say is important but if you translate whatever swingspeed you have into ball speed through good ball striking there will undoubtedly still be room for you to improve your distance. Also better game management in my view offers the biggest opportunity for improvements for all amateurs. Have some videos coming on this but essentially simply by cutting out the big scorecard numbers through reducing 3 putts, hitting drives / shots out of bounds, into hazards etc will mean scores will come down. Will be challenging to reach single digits as gts golf says but am certain there will be big room for improvements for you through better game management and improved ball striking.
All the best with it@@scottelder7648! Couple of things to follow / try out re-swingspeed if you do head down that path. First is Mike Carroll of Fit for Golf (fitforgolf.blog/). Does awesome simple golf specific exercises which help swingspeed both on Twitter and through his app (Use our GOLFINGFOCUS20 discount code for 20% off the yearly sub on the app if you want to use it.) Also the Stack System is another thing to consider to help swingspeed for which our affiliate link is golfingfocus.com/product/the-stack-swing-speed-trainer-youtube/. Hope it all goes well and would be interested to hear about your progress over the winter!
Yes most definitely you can be a single digit handicapper. Couple of friends of mine only drive the ball 220-240 max and one of them is a 7hcp and the other a 9hcp. For them it comes down to their short game and putting which they have practiced so that it is a serious weapon for them to lower their scores. You should definitely try and get more club head speed but I would practice even more on your short game.
Are these numbers including the number of fat shots that 20+ handicappers hit that bring these numbers down so low? There’s no way I’m hitting my 8-iron farther than they’re hitting 5-Ws. As a high handicapper myself, I find these numbers to be baffling. When I hit my 5-wood poorly, it still goes 175+ and when I hit it well, it goes closer to 205-215. Are these carry numbers or total numbers? My personal numbers are total numbers. I don’t even try to hit a 3-wood, so can’t compare numbers there.
What about when your driver is literally broken? 230 carry with average deviation of 15 yards on the track man with the 5 wood.... 240 yard carry with the driver with a 90 yard dead hook? Mos frustrating time of gold I have ever been stuck in.
That's a very tough one Scott and you are absolutely spot on of course to be taking account of your dispersion with the driver and weighing it up against the distance lost 5-wood. Have you had a lesson with the driver only to see whether you can get out of this trough or is it just a phase you're going through at the moment which will come good at some point?
@@GolfingFocus yea, the comment was sorta tongue in cheek. (Obviously anyone that seeks out a video on this subject is having issues) . Yes I am having my first lesson in decades this week trying to figure it out. Way too in to out on my swing with a really weird "catch " happening that's making me bail out. Just overall odd progression.
Got you@@scottw9267. One of the reasons for asking was I've done the same and gone back for my first lesson in about 25 years so was curious as to whether you had done the same. Found it interesting to see some numbers against your swing compared to the last time someone tried to teach me anything but will need to keep going for another few I think to see if it makes any difference. Hope yours works and solves the driver issue!
@@GolfingFocus I had mine 2 days ago. For the most part, he confirmed that what I was trying to do was right even though it felt and looked awkward. (Focusing on fighting out to in club path... got me into the towel drill and worked a little on getting more rotation). I definitely think it was worth it and will keep going for a little here. Played yesterday. I still had a lot of inconsistency with the driver, but I actually holed one from 278 and drove another from 290. (Still only hit 6 fairways the entire round including those two). Nowhere to go but down at this point so I'm retiring.
Don't know where these numbers are recorded. I hit my 3w 195 - 210 Meters off the deck. And I'm a 58 y old 17 hcp. My driver goes 240 Meters, give or take. The yardages mentionned are those I get with my 7w.
Those are great distances Oliver and puts you well well head of the pack. The numbers quoted on this video are averages so there are bound to be players both sides of the averages but think its safe to say you are well into the top percentile of hitters for all male amateurs.
That's pretty much PGA Tour standard distances you are hitting there which is amazing stuff. Stats in the video are from Arccos which now has about half a billion amateur shots in their database I think on last reading. Think that's about 25 times now the amount of PGA Tour data there is available from Shotlink since that started.
The 3 Wood is useless to me since I hit my 3 Hybrid much more accurately and with very little loss on distance. I just go Driver, 3 Hybrid, Irons. No more woods
I’ve only hit my 3w off the deck so far and with 22 shots with it per arccos it has my range as 188-215. With ONE outlier I got ahold of and sent 245… go figure on that one. My 3h is 179-192. Im nothing special at this game either. ~17hcp
Who cares how far you hit any club. I carried a 5 handicap on a 142 slope course for over 20 years and hit my 5 wood and 3 wood much shorter than this chart. It's not how, it's how many.
Agreed Chris it doesn't really matter how far others hit it and everything is just for interest. As long as you are clear on your own yardages across the bag that is if course all that really matters.
You only need to know how far you hit any club. But the chart is a basis for you to see how well your hitting the ball. I recently figured out a reliable way to get 130 to 150 out of a 7 iron, which is one of my favorite clubs. It used to be 130 to 135. Having that ability to gain 15 more yards with the same result is huge considering that it's the distance I am on most par fours.
@@IIISWILIII lol, I punched my 3wood 240carry last week, that’s my average now… well it’s what I tell people I hit my 3 wood. It’s lucky it plugged or I would have hit it 30 yards past the green. I probably only hit it good 60-70% of the time.
@keyboardoracle1044 I think shots like that shouldn't be counted. Not for any ego boosting reasons, but more so to give an accurate reflection of what a decently hit shot will get you. I don't want to hit a great shot and end up well over the green for example.
It just depends on your swing. Of you have a reliable swing you can hit any club. My 3 wood and my pitching wedge wins more scrambles than anyone's driver can. If I could putt it would even be better.
These yardages cant be right... How can someone hit a 5 wood the same as 7 iron? Makes no sense, I only started with woods few months ago and only completely bad shot goes that much but any decent connected shot will go 170+ yards easily. I mean the data could be right which means people are then misusing them. There is no way 0 handicapper hits 5 wood less than 200 yards.
That's what Arccos data says unfortunately. And that scratch players are not hitting the ball as far as we think I'm not sure is as surprising as we may think initially. The vast majority of amateurs over estimate how far they hit the ball and sometimes by a long way!
This is good news for me. I hit my 3 wood farther than a 0 handicap. And I hit my Minnie driver even farther. 200 to 215 and I'm 71. The bad news is my driver only goes 230 to 250.
Great news is that if you play from the white tees, you’ll be hitting a lot of short irons into most par-4s with that distance. Hope I am swings that well when I am 71.
I found the decreasing lofts and increasing club lengths over time very interesting!
All to sell more golf clubs - "my new 6-iron is longer", because it's now a 5, with 6 stamped on it!
Yup it’s certainly tough to think what other reasons there were for it. Will be interesting to see where it ends up and if at some point there comes a switch to lofts rather than numbers stamped. Is happening already with utility irons so no reason why they may not doing the same on all irons.
@@GolfingFocus The Ben Hogan Golf Equipment Company brought out the Fort Worth 15 irons in 2015 with lofts stamped (rather than an iron number), so it has already happened.
'Just lofts' is probably too complicated for the weekend hacker. Otherwise, we're all going to end up with seven wedges as they keep on jacking up lofts! Bridgestone already has had a PW with 38* loft in one of their sets.
PS Last month I played with our lady club pro, who had five wedges in her bag, and she plays in some pro tournament golf events.
@@drrob1963great point about the difficulty marketing irons with just lofts. I probably wouldn’t get it easily myself after having played for years so very tough for newer players as you say.
This was very helpful information for someone who just recently returned to golf after a well over a decade out of the game.
It's nice to get some perspective on my own distances as they're a lot higher than I typically lead myself to believe.
A very warm welcome back to the game and delighted you found the video helpful. 👍
Data doesn't lie. Some people fail to leave their ego in the car, which results in higher scores.
Ego is a big killer of scores for sure Mark. Just because you hit a shot once doesn't mean you can do it over and over again. What makes the game so great!
I’m a 12 hcp and hit 5 iron 200, 4 iron 210, 3i 220, 5 wood 230, don’t even bother with a 3w anymore but that one was around 240-250, Driver is 260-290. I play about once a month. I don’t agree hcp is correlated to distance but do agree your distance determines which tees to play.
Those are great distances and especially if you are playing only once a month. Know you don't agree that there's a clear correlation to handicap but hopefully someone can convince you one day. As with the distance you are hitting the ball there is definitely scope for your handicap to plummet from 12!
@@GolfingFocus I’m 62 now and golf is expensive but don’t care about score much anyway, just the scenery and the nice shots. Used to be a 5 about 20 years ago and to go lower required more practice than I was willing to spend. I know 5 handicappers and they play 6200 yards but when they play back at 7100 yds, they shoot in the high 90s. If I play 6200 yds, driver rarely gets to play since all I need is my 3 iron so I figure play back and use all my clubs.
@@Oldwiseguy-59 Interesting and thanks for sharing. I am in close the same boat as you were now in that in my mid-40s and playing off 6. Not sure I enjoy playing over 7000 as much as you though. Is far too long for me if I'm being honest with myself and find I'm just constantly hitting driver, 3-wood and hybrids and never using any mid-irons throughout the round. Maybe I just need to get better however although as you say that always means dedicating the time which isn't always easy!
@@GolfingFocus agree with you but since I play approximately white 6400 about 30%, blue 6800 about 60% and gold/black 7000+ about 20% of the time this allows me to play all shots and all irons and irrespective of score I feel I’m a better all around golfer for it. I don’t need perfect lies and favourite distances to post a good score, I have every shot there is in my bag just not as consistent as I used to be and this is why I play golf, not to post great scores but the scenery from different tees and different courses. Like fishing and skiing, the pleasure to participate, not win. Too many people play one yardage or one set of tees and for me that takes away the fun that golf provides. I used to be a 5 and now since I only play once or twice a month I’m a 12-15 and don’t even post scores anymore but I practice 2x a week and never get upset on the course - you can talk, sneeze whatever, I’m in the moment and tune it all out. At 63 I have players hockey for 50+ years which I stopped a few years back and have other hobbies as well like ADV motorcycle trips, fishing, tennis, camping, boating, snowmobiling and skiing.
Those probably aren't your averages, they are probably your max/ideal distances. You don't hit every shot perfectly. One flub can screw up an average for a long time.
Excellent, really valuable & helpful advice.
For slow swing speeds a 3 wood can produce less distance than a 5 wood.
I have subscribed as I welcome good sensible recommendations. Thank you.
Thanks for the feedback Alan. Delighted you found the video helpful!
good stuff, keep it coming. Good to see my 5 wood is where it should be, but i wouldn't touch a 3 wood with a barge pole, in fact i would probably hit a barge pole better.
Many thanks and much appreciated! Think you could be right on the 3-wood approach and something I'm thinking about myself. Have had a 13 degree 3-wood in the bag for a long time now and looking at these numbers again and my own it's maybe not the most sensible idea I've ever had!
@@GolfingFocus I am 25 hc and can hit my 5 wood further than 3 wood.
@@dry509 Thanks for sharing and think that's a relatively common scenario. Alot of people stay away from a 3 wood these days although with the continual search for more distance I must confess I'm a bit reluctant to let mine go. Maybe I should start listening more to what others are doing though!
Thank you for this useful information.
Many thanks Joseph. Delighted you found the video helpful!
Really well presented as usual. I think there is a debate regarding putting a 1-iron in the bag and a 4-wood to replace the 3&5. Golf is funny isn’t it? We end up going round in circles and arriving at the same place that we started from 😂
I’d say the difference is how often they top it at different handicaps.
People really need to pay attention to how far they are hitting all of their clubs particularly at the top of their bag because that is where redundancies are more likely to happen with lower swing speeds. Knowing how far you hit all of your clubs is a tremendous value
Great point and it's such an easy thing to do and control in a sport where we have so little control generally! Getting the right gap between your clubs is key as you say and it definitely makes a difference!
Great video, very informative 👍🏾👏🏾
Thanks for the feedback. Delighted you found it useful!
I recently discovered that I hit my 5 wood farther and more accurately than my 3 wood. It frees up space for a 4 iron which has come in really handy. I hit my 5 wood around 200 yards with a swing speed in the mid 80's, I wonder where he got these stats.
Thanks for sharing and being able to hit your 5-wood further than your 3 seems to be more common than I initially thought. The stats in this video come mainly from Arccos which has over half a million amateur shots in their database now and so they’re now able to provide some great comparisons across all standards of player which hopefully can help.
It should be simple stats based on all tracked shots including bad shots, and probably also shots from female and senior. The senior golfers might even contribute more FW shots.
206-176. That’s my Performance Average vs Average for 3 Wood this season. (40 Tee/84 Off The Deck). I’m in the upper end of that 16-20 HCP.
I roll with ShotScope not Arccos, but I believe they offer similar data where you can track how far the productive shots roll out to vs how far all shots go. These two numbers are helpful to reign in my expectations. I’m gonna rip 225 as often as I clunk a 60 yarder.
However, those raw 3W numbers are 10 yards more than my 5 Wood. It’s then 7 Wood where recently there isn’t much separation in distance between 5W-7W because my 7 Wood has a cut down driver shaft that’s a touch lighter, but still the same brand Project X Cypher shaft as in my 5 wood. For this reason I currently have a D-3W-7W bag to simplify the club selection process.
Living in SoCal I’ve had the weather cooperate to where I’ve hit 3W-5W-7W all 100+ times on purpose. It’s really helpful to have some kind of stat tracking sensors/watches/apps for comparison purposes not just for distance, but for the various accuracy stats and strokes gained data for Tee, Approach, Short Game & Putting (if you take the time to enter how far your putts were on the green by stepping them off).
Middle of the road swing speed and sometimes bogey golfer I realize the 3W-7W gives me great separation, but if I wanted to seek consistent launch while simplifying the process even more I could probably shoot the same scores with a D-5W-5 Hybrid. My guess is the target audience of this video doesn’t really need 14 clubs in the bag while seeking improvement. I’m at 10 clubs, despite owning way more than 14.😂 It helps the mental process, but I digress.
I roll with ShotScope, and a D-3W-5W-7W. I My fairway woods are the best part of my game. While I'm officially a 17 handicap, my distances come out 227/197/193/183, which is more like a 5 handicap. There is actually more separation between the 3w and 5w than it appears as, into the wind on the second shot on a Par 5, I will choose a 3W, while with the wind I will pick the 5 wood. Thus, call it 227/200/190/183.
As far as the hybrid question, the goal is to pick a set of clubs that you hit well, and which also gives you good spacing, so that whatever distance you need, you know what club to use.
I'm a high handicapper (23index)
I used to hit my 5 wood around 200-210 yards, but some days I just really struggled with it. I only ever used it from the tee when the green was too close for a driver.
I've recently retired my 5 wood, because I now use cleveland xl halo irons...
No need for a fairway wood when I've now got the supergiving and consistent options of xl halo long irons...
Great stuff Jack and delighted the halo long irons and working out. They are loads of great options for longer clubs now for sure with the driving irons, hybrids and game improvement clubs and we should all be taking full advantage of them where we can.
What clubs does your Halo set contain? What driver do you use?
@@dry509 In my bag at the moment I have:
Ping G425 max driver 12°
XL halo 4 hybrid
XL Halo 5-pw
Cleveland cbx2 wedges
And a smart sole chipper
*all regular or wedge flex and all graphite shafts
(it's all about forgiveness for me, make the game easy as much as possible)
I've also got a xl halo 4 iron, but I haven't got the hang of it yet, so its not bagged currently.
I realise I have a lot of clevelands, I don't have any sort of fetish with them lol I genuinely tried tonnes of clubs before landing on them, including:
Irons-----
Cobra f max
Cobra one length
Callaway XR
Callaway XR OS
Callaway Maverick
Cleveland HB turbo
Taylormade Tour Preferred cb
Taylormade Tour Preferred mb
Ping G series
Ping g425
Odyssey X-act tank chipper
I got fitted for the g425 max, so I tried most of the up to date drivers (stealth, cobra, callaway etc), except the cleveland xl halo funnily enough
I swear by all the clubs in my bag currently. They all live up to the hype.
@@Jack-xy4fy Thanks for the reply. I am around the same handicap so this is helpful info. What shaft flex on your driver and irons? Oh I see that you have regular flex.
@@Jack-xy4fy What club replaced your 5 wood again? I am struggling with mine also. Was it the Halo 4 hybrid or Halo 4 wood?
Very interesting and somewhat reassuring.
Many thanks Algernon. Delighted you found it useful!
Are there that many scratch 60 somethings? Total 3w yds 209 is crazy
There are not too many overall. Are only roughly 1.6% of golfers in the US with a scratch handicap or better and that's just those with a recorded handicap so actual percentage of golfers will be much less in all likelihood. Percentage of those that are 60 years + will then be smaller again for sure!
Swing speed is more of a factor with distance than HDCP. As I have gotten older my HDCP is basically the same but the swing speed has dropped as has my carry distances.
"Statistical analysis of golf is sketchy at best." That's a big statement! Think the godfather of modern golf stats - Professor Mark Broadie of the Data Science Institute at Columbia Business School - may take issue with you on that score.
Can you explain the relationship to the two charts? I'm confused. According to the first table, a scratch to 5 handicap hits a five wood a total distance of 175 yards off the deck. According to the second table, a swing speed of 80 mph with a 5 wood results in a carry of 164, and probably a total distance of 180 or so. Should I reach the conclusion that a scratch to 5 handicap, on average, uses a swing speed of only 80 mph with a 5 wood? I would have guessed a lot higher, and thus, longer carry.
Hi Carl, there is no direct relationship between the two tables. The first is taken from Arccos database of millions of golf shots by handicap whereas the second data set by swingspeed is based on calculated estimates based on how far amateurs can expect to hit their driver based on their swingspeed. A database of amateur distance data by swingspeed doesn't exist unfortunately so only estimates can be made and as a result are less robust than the handicap data. The basic point is of course simply that as swingspeed increases so does distance on average however the precise swingspeed data given it is estimated can only really be said to be a guide. Hope that helps.
@@GolfingFocus OK, thanks. I can't argue with actual data, but I am certainly surprised by it.
Just a quick question, I get that the faster the swing speed and more distance is going to directly reduce scores, but I’m playing off a 17 right now and my driver swing speed is about 90. I’m not going to get loads faster, so will I ever be able to be a single digit player with a slower speed. I’m not hitting driver 250. I’m in my 50’s….only down hill from here.
there's still your putting and short game., and play off more forward tees. I know plenty of single digit seniors, but it will be difficult i am afraid. Work on accuracy as well.
Great question Scott. Swingspeed as you say is important but if you translate whatever swingspeed you have into ball speed through good ball striking there will undoubtedly still be room for you to improve your distance. Also better game management in my view offers the biggest opportunity for improvements for all amateurs. Have some videos coming on this but essentially simply by cutting out the big scorecard numbers through reducing 3 putts, hitting drives / shots out of bounds, into hazards etc will mean scores will come down. Will be challenging to reach single digits as gts golf says but am certain there will be big room for improvements for you through better game management and improved ball striking.
Awesome, thanks for the encouragement and advice!!! I’m still going to try and gain a few mph during the winter with some strength training!
All the best with it@@scottelder7648! Couple of things to follow / try out re-swingspeed if you do head down that path. First is Mike Carroll of Fit for Golf (fitforgolf.blog/). Does awesome simple golf specific exercises which help swingspeed both on Twitter and through his app (Use our GOLFINGFOCUS20 discount code for 20% off the yearly sub on the app if you want to use it.) Also the Stack System is another thing to consider to help swingspeed for which our affiliate link is golfingfocus.com/product/the-stack-swing-speed-trainer-youtube/. Hope it all goes well and would be interested to hear about your progress over the winter!
Yes most definitely you can be a single digit handicapper. Couple of friends of mine only drive the ball 220-240 max and one of them is a 7hcp and the other a 9hcp. For them it comes down to their short game and putting which they have practiced so that it is a serious weapon for them to lower their scores. You should definitely try and get more club head speed but I would practice even more on your short game.
Are these numbers including the number of fat shots that 20+ handicappers hit that bring these numbers down so low? There’s no way I’m hitting my 8-iron farther than they’re hitting 5-Ws. As a high handicapper myself, I find these numbers to be baffling. When I hit my 5-wood poorly, it still goes 175+ and when I hit it well, it goes closer to 205-215. Are these carry numbers or total numbers? My personal numbers are total numbers. I don’t even try to hit a 3-wood, so can’t compare numbers there.
All the Arccos numbers are total distance rather than carry.
What about when your driver is literally broken? 230 carry with average deviation of 15 yards on the track man with the 5 wood.... 240 yard carry with the driver with a 90 yard dead hook? Mos frustrating time of gold I have ever been stuck in.
That's a very tough one Scott and you are absolutely spot on of course to be taking account of your dispersion with the driver and weighing it up against the distance lost 5-wood. Have you had a lesson with the driver only to see whether you can get out of this trough or is it just a phase you're going through at the moment which will come good at some point?
@@GolfingFocus yea, the comment was sorta tongue in cheek. (Obviously anyone that seeks out a video on this subject is having issues) .
Yes I am having my first lesson in decades this week trying to figure it out. Way too in to out on my swing with a really weird "catch " happening that's making me bail out. Just overall odd progression.
Got you@@scottw9267. One of the reasons for asking was I've done the same and gone back for my first lesson in about 25 years so was curious as to whether you had done the same. Found it interesting to see some numbers against your swing compared to the last time someone tried to teach me anything but will need to keep going for another few I think to see if it makes any difference. Hope yours works and solves the driver issue!
@@GolfingFocus I had mine 2 days ago. For the most part, he confirmed that what I was trying to do was right even though it felt and looked awkward. (Focusing on fighting out to in club path... got me into the towel drill and worked a little on getting more rotation). I definitely think it was worth it and will keep going for a little here.
Played yesterday. I still had a lot of inconsistency with the driver, but I actually holed one from 278 and drove another from 290. (Still only hit 6 fairways the entire round including those two). Nowhere to go but down at this point so I'm retiring.
@@scottw9267 That's fantastic and given the resultant distances definitely something worth postponing retirement for!
Don't know where these numbers are recorded. I hit my 3w 195 - 210 Meters off the deck. And I'm a 58 y old 17 hcp. My driver goes 240 Meters, give or take. The yardages mentionned are those I get with my 7w.
Those are great distances Oliver and puts you well well head of the pack. The numbers quoted on this video are averages so there are bound to be players both sides of the averages but think its safe to say you are well into the top percentile of hitters for all male amateurs.
3w 265yds, 5w 240. it also depends on deg. 6i 190yd. i don't know where ya got stats from.
That's pretty much PGA Tour standard distances you are hitting there which is amazing stuff. Stats in the video are from Arccos which now has about half a billion amateur shots in their database I think on last reading. Think that's about 25 times now the amount of PGA Tour data there is available from Shotlink since that started.
The 3 Wood is useless to me since I hit my 3 Hybrid much more accurately and with very little loss on distance. I just go Driver, 3 Hybrid, Irons. No more woods
I’ve only hit my 3w off the deck so far and with 22 shots with it per arccos it has my range as 188-215. With ONE outlier I got ahold of and sent 245… go figure on that one.
My 3h is 179-192.
Im nothing special at this game either.
~17hcp
Great stuff ….. I’m doing pretty good compared to average as is the nature of averages ! 😂
Based on the mph chart i swing at 120 mph based on 3 and 5 wood.
Wow. I wish it was that simple. I hit my 9 wood (27*) 215-220 yards
Who cares how far you hit any club. I carried a 5 handicap on a 142 slope course for over 20 years and hit my 5 wood and 3 wood much shorter than this chart. It's not how, it's how many.
Agreed Chris it doesn't really matter how far others hit it and everything is just for interest. As long as you are clear on your own yardages across the bag that is if course all that really matters.
You only need to know how far you hit any club. But the chart is a basis for you to see how well your hitting the ball. I recently figured out a reliable way to get 130 to 150 out of a 7 iron, which is one of my favorite clubs. It used to be 130 to 135. Having that ability to gain 15 more yards with the same result is huge considering that it's the distance I am on most par fours.
These distance numbers seem low. Most golfers I know, myself included, hit a 3 wood 215-240. I'm a 20 hcp
Average, how often do you top it and it only goes 20 yards? That’ll F the average.
@@keyboardoracle1044 I guess that's a good point. My ego wants me to think my max distance is my average distance, LOL
@@IIISWILIII lol, I punched my 3wood 240carry last week, that’s my average now… well it’s what I tell people I hit my 3 wood. It’s lucky it plugged or I would have hit it 30 yards past the green. I probably only hit it good 60-70% of the time.
@keyboardoracle1044 I think shots like that shouldn't be counted. Not for any ego boosting reasons, but more so to give an accurate reflection of what a decently hit shot will get you. I don't want to hit a great shot and end up well over the green for example.
0 hdcp for sure hit further than 200yrs or so. PGA player is about 250-265 5 wood should be +- 210-230yrds
Pros are average 5-wood carry of 235 yards according to Trackman so not as big a gap as it may first seem.
3 wood is not worth having. I'd rather choke down on the driver or pull out my 7 wood.
It just depends on your swing. Of you have a reliable swing you can hit any club. My 3 wood and my pitching wedge wins more scrambles than anyone's driver can. If I could putt it would even be better.
These yardages cant be right... How can someone hit a 5 wood the same as 7 iron? Makes no sense, I only started with woods few months ago and only completely bad shot goes that much but any decent connected shot will go 170+ yards easily. I mean the data could be right which means people are then misusing them. There is no way 0 handicapper hits 5 wood less than 200 yards.
That's what Arccos data says unfortunately. And that scratch players are not hitting the ball as far as we think I'm not sure is as surprising as we may think initially. The vast majority of amateurs over estimate how far they hit the ball and sometimes by a long way!
This is good news for me. I hit my 3 wood farther than a 0 handicap. And I hit my Minnie driver even farther. 200 to 215 and I'm 71. The bad news is my driver only goes 230 to 250.
Great news is that if you play from the white tees, you’ll be hitting a lot of short irons into most par-4s with that distance. Hope I am swings that well when I am 71.