Understanding Coffee Grinders
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Hope you enjoy this deep dive on grinder theory and my thoughts around juxtaposing topics.
Lots more to come, of course!
Cheers
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TIME CUES (courtest of @xllvr )
Simple Tips and Tricks for Improving Grinding at Home
++ 1:27 Tilt your handgrinder (slowing feed rate)
++ 3:51 With any grinder, you benefit from slow feeding
++ 7:21 Augers and prebreakers are the next big thing
Q&A
15:20 Timemore 078
16:30 Sculptor 064S vs DF64 V2
17:33 Handgrinder + Milwaukee Drill
18:04 Tilt hack better for Espresso or Filter
19:01 Better way to align burrs than Sharpie test
++ 23:52 SSP HU marker tested doesn't run as expected
23:11 Slow feeding and speed of shots
++ 1:03:50 Chat demonstrates the speed diff in shots between fast and slow feed
24:18 Mythos and Heat Damage
25:19 Fellow Ode and dialling in
25:38 SSP Burrs and Boulders
26:20 Specialita Upgrade
27:11 DF83V vs Zerno
28:10 Prebreaking with Mortar? (Use coarsest setting on hand grinder)
++ 42:37 Simulating auger using handgrinder by double grinding
29:25 Thoughts on Weber Key
30:20 Slow feeding for filter?
30:56 Chaff on Hand Grinder and Taste of Chaff
32:20 Tilted foot and DF64 feeding
32:44 DF64 and going coarser
32:58 Lever style and coffee types
34:34 Ode vs DF64 MP
34:54 Same burr taste different in different grinders
36:14 Waiting on time off boil
36:27 Slow feeding and taste difference on different grinders
36:35 Differences between burr materials
++ 36:48 Cast vs Tool Steel
++ 38:02 Coatings
++ 42:30 Durability of ceramic
39:27 Best 64mm burrs for sweetness
40:27 1zpresso vs Electric Grinder for espresso
40:46 Wilfa Uniform for Cafelat Robot
41:41 64mm MP Burrs for espresso?
43:34 SSP on DF64 or 064S
44:20 Hand grinder for espresso
44:29 Don't measure temperature of grounds when exiting grinder
46:30 Taste diff between hand and electric grinders
47:17 Second grind becoming very fine for MP burrs
++ 48:19 Heat up is due to grounds not burrs
49:11 Heat damage vs heat during grinding
51:13 How slow is slow feeding
51:51 Small bellows as slow feeder
52:42 Liquid nitrogen submerge the grinder /s
52:53 Hand grinder for light roasted coffee
53:16 Reason for lack of blind burrs
55:24 Why grind coarser
55:36 Eureka Nolte vs K Ultra (Conical vs Flat?)
56:18 Freezing beans
++ 1:02:22 Freezing in bigger doses
57:20 Red Speed coating rubbing off on burrs
57:40 Burr aligning hand grinders
1:00:04 Timemore 078 vs EG1 and changing burrs in short timeframe for EG1
1:01:26 Seasoning 078?
1:02:50 Weight of feeding dose and consistency
*Simple Tips and Tricks for Improving Grinding at Home*
++ 1:27 Tilt your handgrinder (slowing feed rate)
++ 3:51 With any grinder, you benefit from slow feeding
++ 7:21 Augers and prebreakers are the next big thing
*Q&A*
15:20 Timemore 078
16:30 Sculptor 064S vs DF64 V2
17:33 Handgrinder + Milwaukee Drill
18:04 Tilt hack better for Espresso or Filter
19:01 Better way to align burrs than Sharpie test
++ 23:52 SSP HU marker tested doesn't run as expected
23:11 Slow feeding and speed of shots
++ 1:03:50 Chat demonstrates the speed diff in shots between fast and slow feed
24:18 Mythos and Heat Damage
25:19 Fellow Ode and dialling in
25:38 SSP Burrs and Boulders
26:20 Specialita Upgrade
27:11 DF83V vs Zerno
28:10 Prebreaking with Mortar? (Use coarsest setting on hand grinder)
++ 42:37 Simulating auger using handgrinder by double grinding
29:25 Thoughts on Weber Key
30:20 Slow feeding for filter?
30:56 Chaff on Hand Grinder and Taste of Chaff
32:20 Tilted foot and DF64 feeding
32:44 DF64 and going coarser
32:58 Lever style and coffee types
34:34 Ode vs DF64 MP
34:54 Same burr taste different in different grinders
36:14 Waiting on time off boil
36:27 Slow feeding and taste difference on different grinders
36:35 Differences between burr materials
++ 36:48 Cast vs Tool Steel
++ 38:02 Coatings
++ 42:30 Durability of ceramic
39:27 Best 64mm burrs for sweetness
40:27 1zpresso vs Electric Grinder for espresso
40:46 Wilfa Uniform for Cafelat Robot
41:41 64mm MP Burrs for espresso?
43:34 SSP on DF64 or 064S
44:20 Hand grinder for espresso
44:29 Don't measure temperature of grounds when exiting grinder
46:30 Taste diff between hand and electric grinders
47:17 Second grind becoming very fine for MP burrs
++ 48:19 Heat up is due to grounds not burrs
49:11 Heat damage vs heat during grinding
51:13 How slow is slow feeding
51:51 Small bellows as slow feeder
52:42 Liquid nitrogen submerge the grinder /s
52:53 Hand grinder for light roasted coffee
53:16 Reason for lack of blind burrs
55:24 Why grind coarser
55:36 Eureka Nolte vs K Ultra (Conical vs Flat?)
56:18 Freezing beans
++ 1:02:22 Freezing in bigger doses
57:20 Red Speed coating rubbing off on burrs
57:40 Burr aligning hand grinders
1:00:04 Timemore 078 vs EG1 and changing burrs in short timeframe for EG1
1:01:26 Seasoning 078?
1:02:50 Weight of feeding dose and consistency
You are the GOAT
Oh wow. That's killer! Thanks!
Honey come look! Burr man posted another hour long video!
Stop.
I love this channel. These have been some of my favorite videos of yours--I think the format (or lack of format) is perfect for your personality. Also, I think you're going to make people create better slow feeders which would be awesome!
the crazy person who grind bean by bean it's me!
it took me 12:30 minutes to grind 18gr of coffee with a kinggrinder k6 on 80 clicks!
Been slow feeding my eureka mignon since you mentioned it in a previous video but now I’m going to start freezing my beans! I learn so much from you, thank you and happy 2024!
This was a really good format for this, in my opinion. I found this really helpful as someone with my first flat burr on the way (just got a Zerno pre ordered). Also helping me think of how to use my X-Pro and Lagom Mini 🤔
My new favorite channel on TH-cam. Thanks for the content!!
Great video, appreciate you. At around the 14 minute Mark you mentioned that the Kafatek monolith doesn't have a slow feeder, but the max from last year and conical from the last 3 years has had a pre-breaker. I wasn't sure if you were differentiating pre-breakers from slow feeders with your comment.
Burrman
Fighter of a blademan
Champion of the grind
He’s a master of espresso and friendship of every kind
23:15 Lance giving us The Talk about the beans and the burrs
Mind to try the dosing cup with rounded profile - much more effective blowing than with straight vertical walls ))
Absolutely geeking out to this video. Lance......you are......Burrhemoth! (Have that one on me 😂)
So all this seems to indicate bigger burrs over smaller (there is more area to keep grounds moving), an auger is good, especially one that is designed to break the beans and slow feed, maybe variable speed will aid as well. I wish I knew this 3 years ago when I bought my Ceado E37s.
Here comes the bathroom break!!!!
Im lucky enough to have a mazzer mini as my home grinder. Picked it up for free from a local restaurant because it had a broken foot and they were upgrading. I gave it new burrs, a mini hopper with bellows and an aftermarket chute to remove the doser from the front. It makes it easier not to upgrade because A) diminishing returns and B) I'll never get a deal that good again
Awesome. Once again I've been doing it all wrong! Shall definitely try some of these tips. First class video, thank you Burr Lance i mean Sir Lance.
Perfect! I like this form. You go fast and it would be great if I could find a 10 second rewind tho. I end up replaying to much😀
Thank you, Lance, Happy New Year to you.
Can't seem to remember when the Mahlkonig Tanzania came out but that was also rocking blind burrs
One more trick with handgrinders, especially when you're working with dense beans and a grinder with a shorter crank (e.g. C40), is to try to spin the grinder body around the crank rather than the crank around the body if that make sense. I feel like this way I get much more momentum, less stalling and better cups.
Yo Lance, I am a former pocket knife nerd and currently on my way to a full-out coffee nerd. You alluded to cast vs. tool steel in this video, but I’d love to see coffee experts and burr manufactures getting more into metallurgy when discussing and making burrs. Cool, you have a set of steel burrs with some kind of coating. What’s the hardness? How is the hardness related to the specific metal used? What specific metal is used? Is it beneficial to use super fine-grained steels to get super-uniform cutting edges or is edge retention important above all? Is having a steel that can only achieve a coarse edge okay or even desirable for some reason?
I’d love to see some of these questions dug into! Although I’d shiver at the price of 83mm SSP burrs made from M390 or MagnaCut, so maybe this discussion can wait a while 😂
I’m with you, and think about the same stuff. Steel isn’t steel. The knife world is a great example.
Awesome information Lance. Thank you so much. Please, when will your much anticipated Mahlkonig EK 43 review finally land?
I did an experiment on EK43 and I was suprised by how much the taste improved when dosing bean by bean. And EK43 is already amazing by default. But I would love for some smart person to come up with some kind of automatic slow feeder/auger of some sort that could do the slow feed. I don't think I am a super taster but I can taste the difference quite easily. It also brewed 10 sec faster. So I could grind finder.
I basically need somebody to invent a bean conveyor belt. Even battery powered is enough :D. I would not be suprised if we something like this in a year or two.
I can not even believe how nerdy this sounds. Coffee gets weirder every year.
You can look into the bean accountant and rig it to drop in .3 g at a time I guess
Buy titus burr carrier, it slows the feed because the pre-breaker has finer pitch.
@@JDMeister Thanks for the reminder. This is something that I have looked into in the past. I might revisit it. Do you know how much the feed is slowed? By about 50% perhaps? Or is it much more noticeable? Do you have personal experience with the titus carrier?
@@NwinDii This is an amazing project that I did not know existed. Thanks for sharing! I will keep an eye out. I have emailed the creator of the accountant to see whether he could make a simpler and smaller version of the accountant with a smaller hopper and without the load cell.
OE Apex turned backwards (with the spring installed) will do this and will give you a really slow bean feed and unfortunately a really long grind time. (turned backwards the spring will try to move the beans away from the burrs but somehow the beans will fall through slowly)
Thank you, Lance.
you can design burrs so the first stage (prebreaker stage) feeds rather slowly, "nibbles" at the beans, and the rest is very efficient and yeets the grounds through quickly.
this is legit. my espresso shot has gone faster. now I can grind finer! thanks Lance!
Great video as always, thank you Lance!
Marvelously informative!
Thanks Lance , love your work 👍
Happy new year unfiltered Lance!
Love these deep-dive vids!
Love this q&a!
There was a question about high flowrate baskets and whether to use them to allow for a finer grind. To which you replied you don't ever want to grind finer. But when you were reviewing the weber/Wafo etc baskets, you preferred those. And those do need a finer grind to achieve the same flow rate. What gives?
I didn't grind finer. I let the shots go faster.
Would it be an upgrade to go from Commandante C40 red click to Fellow Ode Gen 2 with SSP MP or Cast? (For Pour over)
I would say yes? But it will take you more time to dial in
SSP MP has god tier clarity. I love it way more than c40
Thanks for your answers, must try - really just wants a good Pour over grinder because im keeping my C40 for the espresso until I have enough to upgrade to the Zerno 😅
I've been tilting my handgrinder but I was wondering if there are unintended consequences like the beans only going on one side of the grinder? I feel like it's a weird hack where the potential for things to go "wrong" is significant. Maybe it's worth doing a couple practical experiments.
Lance, have you reviewed the Anfim Pratica, is it really as good as the Mahlkonig E65S?
Tried slow feed with a Baratza Encore on 11 setting and it actually choked the shot. So the grind was finer than with normal feed. Weird.
Yet to see anyone do and experiment pre grinding beans as course as possible then feeding it back through on final grind size (think light roast bean in weak grinder)
I've done this many times. And have discussed doing it on a hand grinder loads..it's a common practice with hand grinders in comps.
Best burrs for DF64P for espresso only?
45:25 surely this is positive that the ground temperature is dropping relatively quickly?
I like the idea of using my ROK handgrinder as a prebreaker. If I prebreak two doses before grinding for the Portafilter, will there be a time limit for the prebroken grinds to sit? Say it takes 4 minutes from prebreak to grind? I use small Tupperware type vessels. Will the time negate the prebreak advantage?
Used both a Weber Key (Conical, full city decaf) and Timemore 078S (flat, medium) this morning.
When you tried the 078S turbo burrs, did you try the ‘super soaker’ RDT?
Only a couple Kg through mine so far but haven’t tried it (not turbo of course). Pretty sure simply putting some slick tape in the hopper on that shallow angle will alleviate the bean stick issue people are complaining about, without needing a custom hopper.
Contemplating getting the Turbo burrs when they are available.
Just getting to your point about not RDT 🤣, thanks brother
If I don't RDT on the 078s, I have to grind quite a bit finer. Better to go dry and grind finer or RDT and go coarser?
What do you think about the new 102mm blind burrs from Option O
1:04:05 This is confusing to me... slow feeding results in a faster shot... ok got that... but then you go on to say the beans are not being pushed out by others due to slow feeding, so they go round and round and grind finer due to that. So finer grinds resulting in a faster shot? I don't understand how /why that's so...?
Hey Lance! How do I get a notification when you go live on here? I have “all notifications” selected on the little subscribe bell, but I didn’t get anything. Love these unfiltered videos btw, keep ‘em coming!
I only go live on an unlisted link for patreon peeps. I post the link in my discord!
Ah makes sense. Thanks! @@LanceHedrickUnfiltered
hey lance great video. recently saw your review of the zerno z1. any thoughts on the Z1 vs a P64 for espresso using SSP MP or HU?
Just to share a different experience, I haven't been able to notice a big difference in flavor between horizontal and auger-vertical mounting of 64mm burrs at similar RPMs. Very minor if any.
Tilting a hand grinder on the other hand definitely changes things, but I'd encourage A/B testing as sometimes it's for the better, sometimes for worse. Depends on the grinder.
That's actually shocking to me. I've done so many blind tests for other people visiting me and it's always a pretty vast difference. There is also a noticeable PSD difference. Like, very noticeable.
@@LanceHedrickUnfiltered perhaps there have been other things at play, like declumper / no declumper etc? Either way, for example SSP MP tastes familiar in both an unrestricted Mazzer and Ode or Sculptor for me. Same with SSP LS.
This is how espresso making causes insanity. Do the same thing over and over - different results. Now my 83 mm $2500 Italian grinder can’t handle 18 grams of coffee at once!111 Yes I tried the slow feed and indeed it is different. It throws everything out of whack I need to relearn coffee making.
Any suggestions on how to align SSP Brew (NOT MP)? Marker doesn't work due to the finishing teeth not being flat.
Hi do you recommend any tips/mods / burrs for a mythos one grinder ?
Fully get the point of not going to far into chirp. But with the Ode2 I go from no chirp to chirp with a single step (25um) and then have more than just edges cleared of marker. 25um doesn't sound that bad for me as alignment, at least for a filter brewer probably aiming for ~500-700um!?
Take the spring and pin out when aligning and manually turn and hold
How to join the discord? I joined the patreon like two month ago. Couldn’t find any hint about how to join the discord. Probably I am also just blind.
Is the Ozik grinder still alive?
This is some serious weed diving
Tried freezing your handgrinder?
Great video but pleassss next time read the question a bit more slowly, I could hardly understand them 😅
FYI I'm not getting your notifications? Thanks Lance
When I go live, it's unlisted. Only available through my discord and patreon. The live chat is just for them. I send a notification to everyone on discord when I go live with the unlisted link!
How are you not hungover?
Probably was just sipping on single origin Kahlua.
you should do a video about hand grinders meant for daily use at home.
I have two grinders. A Niche Zero and a DF64V. Would there be any advantage to grind super coarse as a kind of “pre breaker” and then slow feeding those grounds into my DF64v with ssp mps?
Yes James Hoffman made a video on that and he liked the results
Just had my 2nd cup of pour over holding my K max at a 50-60 degree angle with very slow turns. Not only a noticeable change to the finished cup, it left the chaff in much larger pieces, thus making removal quicker and easier. Coffee is legitimately an artform and its beautiful.
At 87 and a bad left shoulder I found grinding for espresso a painful task. Not worthwhile at all. I have added a motorized device from Itop in China. It is a wonderful relief.
Hey Lance, just watching this again and was wondering if you ever got a chance to use the Ceado E37SD grinder? I was thinking about getting the new Mazzer Philos but not sure if it is any upgrade over the 83mm burr Ceado I already own. Any thoughts if it’s worth it? Thanks man. Ben.
Really nice video! Can you please recommend an SSP burr for my df64 - my consumption is espresso heavy (3 per day) as light roasts as possible, also after changing the burrs I am planning to start doing pourer 1-2 times a week. As far as I understood from your previous SSP video - you recommend lab sweet for espresso (compared to MP), however, how does the high uniformity burrs stack against those two?
Hey Lance, finally stepping up my grinder game. Do you happen to have a review of the new DF83V on the horizon? I’m pretty sold on that one as the workflow looks great. Thinking about the SSP Cast burrs with it. I’m coming from a Breville Smart Grinder Pro, lol.
Dont align with the motor spin, use a manual spin. I use my fingers to spin and test for aligning flatness.
Dave Brannigan: Not sure how long you have been using the Milwaukee driver on the hand grinder, but my Timemore C2 Max started to get ovoid bearing surfaces with the electric screwdriver and I stopped. It still works fine by hand, but the grind setting now has some wiggle between settings.
Great real-time info. Perfect stable alignment is impossible with a handheld electric device.
So much for my idea to create a heated tamper. I thought it sounded like a good idea.
Does a warm basket would induce heat damage to the ground coffee too?
Thanks alot for the information 👑
Happy new year Lance!
Can anyone provide any more information on the 3D printed slow feed device mentioned for the Levercraft Ultra? Looking for ways to consistently slow-feed my Niche Zero.
Mahlkoenig made the first blind burrs in the 90's.
Good to know! I'll look it up
@@LanceHedrickUnfiltered K501 and the Tanzania.
Wow, thanks Lance, slow feeding helps pour overs as well. Daddy Hoff dethroned? Forced into resurrecting a £100 conical, heavy on boulders and fine and a mixed up taste, and just as you described for espresso, slow feeding quickened drain down and then a finer grind produced a well balanced cup (for a cheap conical). Great channels, awe inspiring commitment, many thanks.
Oh man... I watched this yesterday, tried it now, and I am sitting here, sipping the best coffee I ever made... thanks to what I learned from you, the proper coffee flow _out_ , the puck prep etc. and then this, the proper coffee flow _into_ the grinder. I am still looking for words... I will need more experience with this... will likely retry all preferred coffee bean selections again, like an audiophile going through all the records again and again :).
Double grind with Comandante. What's the first coarse setting?
I'm thinking of making a slow feeder using a small electric motor, a speed controller and an auger to push the beans into my df64.
Just wanna update: tried the tilt hand grinder on an espresso; what was a 25 second shot ran in 9 seconds at the same setting on my 1zpresso J-ultra ! (insane!)
4:40 Q: can spritzing the beans with water before grinding reduce heat enough to help with cooling the beans?
For the issue with the mp giving a finer 2nd grind: maybe the locking mechanism of that grinder is a bit loose and burrs are getting pulled together, resulting in a finer and finer grind?
I tried the slow feed of beans into my Sette 270 and I did notice a sweeter taste than dumping all the beans at once. I guess this will be my new way to grind beans.
DADDY HOFF, WHERE ARE YOU? Daddy, daddy, daddy Hoff ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Awesome content. Thanks for being the only channel to provide content while I’m at work. I wish you the greatest success this coming year. 🥳 happy new year
First coffee tomorrow, I'm tilting my Timemore hand grinder. Happy New Year Lance, and thank you for everything you do 😘
Cheers. Thanks for going through a ton of crap for the benefit of us all.
I love decaf... can you rant on it?
You are very good
Thanks! Interesting video. I will surely try slow feeding my zp6 with angling it. What angle are you thinking about? Like really horizontal? Or maybe like 15deg? Comandante burr is not attached and they often say that wiggle of burr on axle doesn't matter because burr is floating and self aligning with coffee particles. I think it might work at finer settings. I don't think slow feeding will work well in this case. Often at the end of grinding with C40 some larger particles occur. They also recommend you to keep grinder vertical. I also think if it would be possible to attach slow feeder at hand grinder. Maybe something similar to one at df64, just above burrs? I will have to check how is zp6 burr attached :D that might be interesting project.
Yes comandante burr is floating and needs vertical..
Awesome content!
Happy New Year!
Has anyone heard if there are going to be 78mm SSP burrs for the Timemore Sculptor?