Exactly! Little is more annoying than having to cede and later retake territory cause you had to fall back a year's worth of travel to your nearest base.
It was a % at the time of release, I think it was until 2.0 or something, but it was nerfed for some reason nobody knows most thought it was a error, as it's not use full at all now, as it's weaker than anything else you can take. I think it was because it was moved from battleships as a ability to a ship utility or something like that, it was something like a AOE and it stacked too I think.
This makes me want to see them rework the Military Academy building. Have it so once you build it, you can enact a leader decision to focus every admiral that comes off of this planet to have a specific trait. Which would make military empires build academies on all their worlds so they have a wide variety of admirals/general to pick from, which would make sense thematically and game wise.
Problem tends to be you can only build one Juggernaut, it’s slow, and your fleets are going to be distributed across a given territory, making it hard for them to withdraw and repair. You’re right about it being a mobile repair yard, but it suffers from the same problem that going back to a star base has: it still takes a long time to withdraw to repair with it.
Also I've seen both the go back and heal and upgrade orders being canceled whenever my Juggernaut leaves a system. Not fun. Still better than not having it.
@@MatthewChenault I still like to have the Juggernaut as my FOB in a choke point system from where my attack fleets scatter from. Leaving it alone is not problem as long as your forward offensive blocks any stray fleets that might pose a danger to the Juggernaut
@@skeltaldelegate5408 the only issue with the juggernaut being a fob is that by itself its slightly softer than your typical fully decked out fleet. Ofcourse you can jump it out of danger
Since you can swap admirals for free, i really like just keeping one in reserve (so it doesnt die in a fight), and swapping them in when i need repairs after battle
I've found Regen hull to actually be decent in Corvette spam fleets. Since they evade alot, they can actually survive long enough to fully repair. Also those few points of Regen really do add up when multiplied by 100
But its only strict on Menance Cov, which has 2 ultility slots. You use it on normal cov means you cannot equip afterburner. But if you use on Menance cov, its speed is below 300, make it not effective
@@jorgejustin461 I don’t says about evade, but speed. At late game you need a very high speed to intercept FA/AE that can warp to your territory. Slow-ass Bs and Cruisers cannot intercept them. Only the cov and Menance class that can reach 300 speed to chase those fleets.
@@sumarbrander3354 their fleet easy to kill with BS IF YOU CAN INTERCEPT THEM. Their fleet has speed outrun BS and you need a lot, a lot of cov to approach them. There was a case with AW Empire. Their main fleet 100k fleet power jump to my territory and wreak havoc inside, it cost me 5 100 cov fleet, 4 titans, 30BS and 50 years to hunt them down. BS completely useless since they move faster and jump faster.
Engineer admirals are a godsend when it comes to big slow battleship fleets that would take a long ass time (and potentially jeopardize holding strategic points) to get home to repair. Amazing for late game galactic “re-education” campaigns
@@PropheticShadeZ Honestly Gateway Networks are SO useful. Free Trade Value collection, free trade protection from wherever your fleet is hanging out, instant availability of any defensive fleets needed...
Your leaders skills should be based on your empires traits. Something like deviants would throw rng to the mix to get non empire trait leaders more frequently. Or be able to build leaders, the "cost" of certain criteria being cheaper or more expensive, again, based of your empire traits. This would limit building overpowered leaders in early game when energy is scarce and late game annoyance of just re rolling and dismissing leaders looking for the one you like.
I'm a fan of hull tissue and its contemporaries. Autorepair removes the ability for enemies to fight a war of attrition. They either have to force a neverending stream of battles on one fleet to destroy it to the last or be content that they wasted every shot that doesn't finish off a ship. It makes trickster admirals fun because every ship that retreats is back to full in very short order. Also saves the time and resources needed sending them home to repair. It should also be noted that hull tissue and its contemporaries work on EVERY ship simultaneously whether they're in combat or not, whereas a starbase can only concurrently repair ships up to its shipyard limit and is interrupted if the fleet gets engaged. The bigger the fleet, the longer it takes for a base to repair the whole thing, whereas regeneration of any kind doesn't take turns. An engineer admiral is also great...IF they ever appear in the pool. Oh and I could be wrong but I'm fairly confident that any form of regeneration STACKS with active starbase repairs...feel free to disprove, that one's just an intuitive hypothesis.
I have this issue. IF they appear, I've gone entire games where I haven't seen one. That might be my mods doing stuff, but its still important to consider.
These graphs where clearly compiled by big auxiliary fire control. You maximise your hull on ships so they have an increased chance of disengaging. This is because disengagement is the best defence against attrition. Hull regeneration continues while your ship is disengaged. You don't need to regenerate all of your hull, you only need to regenerate the health lost beyond the 50% threshold to retain maximum chance to disengage on the next battle. A ship that enters battle with 50% hull has the same chance to avoid destruction as one with 100%. Regeneration can get a ship from 45% to 50% in the time it takes for a battle to end, it doesn't seem like much but that 5% can be the difference between disengaging on the next fight or exploding. Disengagement and hull have a synergistic relationship. The same is true for Disengagement and hull regeneration.
Great video Montu! Would love to see one on when exactly you should switch from crystal plating to armor once you get into repeatables, especially since the ship designer doesn't take repeatables into account.
Armor heavy ruisers with AB and Regen can be devastating in chasing down broken fleets as you can pursue without repairing and catch the enemy as they come out of E-warp. the regen gives you a slight edge as you can repair some from last engage while the enemy is stuck in E-warp. of course engineer admiral would be better, but they can be hard to find. If you have the engineer admiral ditch the armor and add a second AB.
Mostly I take it for the strategic advantage, being able to repair without starbases gives your fleets a LOT of flexibility, and that makes you faster and more mobile than your enemy.
In the two years or so of having stellaris, I think I've seen an engineer once, maybe twice. In early game when you've just smashed their main fleet that hull tissue regen is a godsend, especially when your near tech parity, and rolling up the closer systems, travel time is about 60 days between fights it adds up just enough to keep your fleet in the fight as well as possibly force a favorable peace
idea : reroll until you get an engeneer admiral, and switch with your normal admiral between fights. You can do it at any time regardless where your fleet is
Honestly, I personally really like Regenerative Hull Tissue. It's a very small amount of healing, sure... but it lets you ignore minor scrapes and bumps that would otherwise add up, and push on for another combat, pressing your enemies without that time intensive tactical retreat.
This is why I usually put it on one of the slots with battleships. If you're just holding a chokepoint against largely weaker fleets and need a bit of regen just to slowly build back up it can be quite useful imo
@@Doombot221, same with the grey tempest. If you get bogged down, that regen helps save ships that would otherwise be lost and take time to replace and transit to the frontline.
The cool thing about the description of regenerative hull tissue is the use of genetically engineered bacteria. Very soon all concrete made in the world will include specialized bacteria combined with a source of food. When the concrete cracks and oxygen seeps in, the bacteria will start eating the food and secreting calcium deposits, and automatically repairing the cracks! It will be so interesting to see some of these futuristic technologies appear in the real world!
yeah, I found the charts misleading because they were based on mostly no armor ships. It's obviously better to use a mixed shield armor when running regeneration. instead of taking 150 days he could have a healthy fleet in 75 days, which would be worth it if you have to punch through a lot of dead space with no stations nearby.
Agree and disagree... mostly on the opportunity cost of using an engineer admiral vs something like gale force on corvettes. Corvettes aren't the ultimate ship for big battles, but they ARE the ultimate ship for securing territory quickly and still being able to concentrate firepower for big battles. Having a speed or damage upgrade on them helps you to lock down territory faster, which is ultimately the point of fighting a war. Also, earlier in the game before hull researches and crystal plating, the flat regeneration rates are much more powerful than later game. And the armor regen is MOST of the benefit of nanites/tissue, which adds up to a lot on corvettes with armor. But on the bigger ships it's pretty clear that you're losing out. So, regen tissue is strong on corvettes early game, but should be phased out.
Well, as Montu said, flat figures is stronger on less hull, and % is weaker. But the greatest thing about therepair admiral is that you can bounce him between fleets as necessary, and sun in combat/mobility admiral as required. That is an advantage none of the techs have.
The Regen Hull Tissue was WAAAYYY better (and actually useful) when it was percentage based instead of being a fixed amount. Now it's only useful for corvettes and becomes increasingly more useless the larger the ship is. Just to put it into perspective; A corvette (~300 HP) with 1 RHT will take up to 300 days to fully repair. Okay, not bad but not brilliant. A battleship (~4000 HP) with 2 RHT will take up to 2000 days (~6 years) to fully repair..... Utterly worthless..... Edit: Yeah I wrote this down before he even did the maths.... feels kinda redundant now lol....
in early game regenerative tissue was a great boon since it allowed to keep on the offensive instead of having to go dock after each attack. i guess that since it's a base amount instead of a ratio, it get worse later when ships become bigger. but i always appreciated the lower logistic hassle of repairing on the run.
the damage output of the enemies is also significantly lower, low enough that the regeneration can make a significant difference by essentially adding a bunch of extra armor and hull points
This is why around 2350-2400 I fire all of my admirals and replace them with Engineer Admirals. When you're fighting the endgame at 25x strength, getting rid of the need to stop by a starbase to repair after every battle can really help you keep the momentum going when you're going on the offensive.
Not wholesale firing of your ranked up admirals! I like to have a couple engineers, and swap them to the fleets that are damaged. The healthy fleets get the +20% range admiral or fire rate admiral when attacking 25x crises.
@@muradm7748 with enough repeatable tech your ships can start surviving 25x crises not often, but sometimes I get battleships warping out of fight (surviving)
@@roblaquiere8220 that means pretty late end of game tho, i just use shield boosts or nothing with range admiral, aint nobody have time for that regeneration
with the new updates and patches, they have changed regenerative hull tissues, it now give a daily 0.5% hull regen and a daily 1% armour regen, i wonder if it will be now a good thing to add to ships, would be fun to see an update to this video with the new regenerative hull tissue effect. i wonder if the nanites one did change, i would think yes but i have yet to get it with the new patch, anyways great job with these video, they are very informative and helpful
Excellent video! The only thing I missed, was admiral+titan aura as a comparable factor. I often wrestle with deciding if the overall utility of repairing aura outweighs the loss of the other offensive /defensive auras.
i use hullregen on everything and its working very well for me. i loose a lot less ships because they start consecutive engagements with more health and it saves valuable time and resources i would need to spend backtracking to a station and rebuilding losses. combined with increased dissengagement chance, my fleets are practicly immortal. i also hardly every use aux.targeting, i prefer afterburners. i like my fleets fast and immortal. they cant kill me and they cant catch/outrun me, im in total control at all times. it might not be meta, but i enjoy it a lot. ;)
Its much better on corvettes/destroyers and help significantly against strike fighters (if you run Armor) and disruptors (since their DMG per shot is so low). Its also a very, very bad idea to consider it a "recovery" system and its much better to recognize its a survivability system for the early to mid game. Engineer Admirals are great, but only if you roll one (spending 2k energy credits for an engineering admiral thats only marginally better for small ships is a giant waste when you could go trickster instead). I think this video is viewing Regenerative Hull in its worst light, it is actually quite strong in helping fight against strike fighters with Armor/Hull based ships (I don't like shields on corvettes, their counters mostly bypass shields) since the regeneration occurs at all times and alot of early to midgame battles last a very long time comparative to late-game (which can almost be instant), this adds up significantly and can help determine a ship disengages instead of being destroyed. Anything that is a battleship or larger will always be better off with an Engineer Admiral or more firepower, its basic math and a basic understanding of the battlespace battleships, titans and Juggernauts operate in. Fleet strategy that revolves around firepower being emphasized to the extreme (which is what artillery battleships are, if you could trade out armor/shields/hull for more guns you would), is countered by those with more firepower or can avoid it entirely. Regen in stellaris (not starbase repairs), since it operates in combat, has two functions, increasing survivability and improving recovery. The way it extends survivability is by effectively increasing Hull/Armor by the regen value(s) for each day it avoids damage while in combat, provided, it isn't outright destroyed; Recovery is self-explanatory. In the late game, outright destruction of smaller ships is almost guaranteed and larger ships dont get enough regen from the component to mitigate enough damage to survive the second volley. But in the early to midgame, this is a different story, outright destruction is considerably rarer, and battles can last a decent while as HP (crystal plating is equivalent to T4 armor/shields and shields are going to be upgraded anyway) is easier to acquire in the early to midgame than damage (upgraded basic weapons are not as powerful as their T4 L slot brethren). So in the early to midgame, this is, from what ive experienced, one of the better components to run if you are destroyer/corvette heavy fighting lots of smaller ships or strike fighter based fleets, but it is only truly effective, if you run at least one armor slot (this is honestly true with engineer as well). For some games, that cost is too great (MORE CG FOR THE SCIENCE GODS), for others (haha scrap miner go brrr), its fine.
Something else to consider for these early battles is that you can triple the effectiveness of the regeneration by swapping out a single crystal plate for some armor. You lose some ehp but since damage to the armor first is assumed for everything bar disruptors, the +2/+4 armor regen will kick in much earlier than the hull regen (from any source) and will continue to counter small amounts of damage throughout the entire lifespan of the ship.
3.3 patch notes: Regenerative Hull Tissue, Nanite Repair System and Nanobot Cloud have had their values sliced in half however they now heal on a percentage basis rather than a static one leading to a net buff in most situations.
Short answer: Yes. Long answer: If you’re playing in a huge galaxy and you’re far away from allied territory, then it’s useful, especially for keeping your fleet’s health topped off. It isn’t a replacement for Star bases, but it’s useful for keeping your fleet on campaign for much longer than they would otherwise be and offer the benefit of making your repair time slightly less. In other words, if you’re going on campaign and don’t have easy access to a port, it’s useful, especially if it might take a year or more to return to port. If you’re dealing with an aggressive AI or something like a Crisis, then withdrawing back to port might not be viable at all.
It's especially useful when the AI goes full retard and makes exclusively battleships armed with shield-penetrating missiles and fighters that ignore shields, and suddenly every battle leaves your fleet in a position where its armor and hull is damage and some of your important ships are hanging on by a thread.
There is also an issue of a thing called Federation fleet that you sometimes don't control and whomever controls it is braindead or rather brainabsent. So it's YOUR job to make a design that will have staying power and endurance to delay for as long as possible far away from anywhere useful. And that means designs that can top off on their own...
When I played against crisis I just built battleships and I didn't struggle at all. If you have enough ships the enemy will never have to chance to hit you and if they do, then you have a jump drive to pull the damaged one back Also if you put recovery modules you lose battle abilities of your ships, make them weaker and opponents have more time to deal damage which of course you can heal(veeeery slowly), but that was excessive damage which you shouldn't take And argument about huge galaxies isn't a huge deal, since you such technologies like: jump drive and gates and worms which make your life easier to go through galaxy. In case you wanna kill crisis on the other side of the galaxy with no friends their: why bother? Defend your borders, built fortress and gates. Time always works on player in this case. More time - more alloys - more ships
@@l_ArAxus_l, that’s not really much of an argument against them, since, even with them, it’ll still take about a year or so for your ships to return to a port to repair. A year is enough for the enemy to regroup and begin a counter offensive, especially if they’re something like an awakened ascendancy and you’re having to fight through territory without any ports you can use. By the time you withdrew, repaired, and went back into combat, you’d have burned away two years, which would be enough time for them to get more battleships online to strike against your earlier gains. That’s less of an issue if you can capture a star port, but the primary issue is you still have to capture a star port in the first place. Without the Hull regen modules, you have to focus more heavily on assault ports and capturing them as soon as possible while being bound to them throughout most of the war. With Hull regen, you aren’t as dependent on them to fight a campaign, which affords you the opportunity to be more aggressive than before. As an added bonus, it makes a war less attrition heavy. After all, when you have to fight a bunch of outposts, they can, and often will, still do some damage to your fleet, which will slowly whittle your escort vessels down if you’re not careful.
I always have a regenerative hull on my battleships. It's not good for full repairs but it keeps the fleet from getting attritioned. Battle ships are so slow it's painful to pull them away from the front line to repair.
Thing is, damaging the enemy faster will avoid damage, so you have to consider that. I really just can't think of a single situation in which use of this is in any way justified
@@Xaphnir You are absolutely correct from an efficiency standpoint, but I have done the same thing when my fleet power is much stronger, but the enemy is both far away and moves around a lot. I estimated that the time and energy saved for me as a player was worth it, so I could focus on more important areas and decisions. But after seing this video with the numbercrunching, I won't do that anymore. Seems like dividing fleets and letting damaged ships sit on captured starbases and repair and rejoin it's fleet when R&R is done is more efficient in the long run.
Oh wow, I had no idea regen hull tissue was so bad. I'll probably stop using/researching it in future games, then Edit: I meant that I'll stop prioritising it over everything else
It’s not really that bad at all. This assumes that you’re repairing a ship from fully damaged to fully repaired, which isn’t likely in most cases. Also, the amount of time it takes for you to reach another battlefield (several hundred days, on average) still means you’ll get an additional 200+ Hull back that would otherwise not have been regenerated as well as an extra 400 armor. That’s enough to repair your corvettes fully if they’re half damaged. It also means that battleships are less likely to retreat when the next combat occurs, since the regenerated Hull points will buff them above the 25% health limit for withdrawing ships, allowing for them to get off one or two salvos that they otherwise wouldn’t have gotten off. I still use them because they’re handy at helping repair my ships enough to keep them on campaign and to repair minor damage suffered during smaller engagements (engaging smaller stations, smaller fleets, etc) so that, when you do engage the big fleets, you’ll have a full health fleet to meet up against the enemy fleet.
Ya don't be so fast the video is a bit misleading. It only covers 1 situation which is time to repair to full. It dousent even address the time it would take your fleet to get to and from the repair station. Your fleets even in war will spend most of their time travaling. With hull Regen travel time become healing time.
@@MatthewChenault Thanks for the extra info. To be more precise, what I meant was that I usually go for that regardless of everything else, even when it would be useful to choose other options for the first encounters or for research. Usually, when I play, I have at least one fleet doing stuff in the other side of the galaxy, and I can definitely see the advantage in having those ships regenerating. Still, I was probably overvaluing the tech, because I always assumed that the regeneration was percentage-based.
They are still my go to module on ships constantly repairing can help them stay alive when having to fight back to back battles especially in offensive wars
I really like using regen hull tissue, keeps me healthy in the early - mid game wars, especially offensive, where being slightly more damaged can get my ships routed, or lose momentum in order to repair.
I agree with your assessment. There is something to criticize. You told us how to get all the things to get the repair modules and all but you forgot the requirement for the engineer admiral namely Doctrine: Interstellar Warfare technology. Since admiral traits are random without knowing that requirement one could start rolling and rolling and thinking one was just unlucky for not getting an engineer. I once blew 10k energy before realizing that I literally couldn't roll an engineer since I didn't have the tech.
I like the idea of crew customisation for each ship, not individuals like a scientist but roles and units within every ship; engineers, security, psychologists, etc. and you decide how many are on each ship and this affects the stats in battle and outside of combat scenarios like speed, shield and hull integrity, etc. and ship size. I want to decide how big my corvettes are going to be like planet sizes; the bigger they are, the more they hold, and the class of ship determines the maximum size.
Good arguments, but I'm still getting that regenerate tissue due to my OCD. I'm not taking my whole fleet back to a station just because a corvet is damaged, I'm not leaving the ship damaged and built a new one, and definitly not breaking the fleet and let the single ship went back to heal.
@@Empdizz thanks for your support! It's crazy to be at 30,000 people subscribed. I'm glad youre enjoying the videos! Anything you'd like to see that I haven't covered yet?
@@MontuPlays maybe an admiral comparison? I’m sure trickster would come out on top, but who knows? Psionic might be better or even the 20% range on Cautious might be better with an earlier alpha strike. Hopefully I haven’t missed it if you’ve covered it.
I find it useful for long pushes into the enemy really early or really late. Really early, there arent many stations to capture, and the few there are end up highly defensive. But really late, you take a lot of systems either empty or with large stations you cant wait at in order to keep up pressure.
Technically, you can also get passive repairs as one of the random boons from the Shroud. It's also 0.5% per day though. As for the Hull Tissue, I think the main use of the thing is early game. You can get Hull Tissue incredibly early, before you get many other ship modules and also before you get crystaline plating. When using corvettes with actual armour, you basically repair 3 points per day, not 1 and its still a time when corvettes or destroyers actually are a considerable alloy cost (also given you are still using armour). Starbases also are not at every corner and fleets generally are slower, because thruster technology is low. This gives fleets some pretty decent ability to operate away from a base and allows the economy to sustain losses better. Just phase it out as your economy gets better and you get better ship designs.
Wow, I've always put a nanite regen module into my ships. Whilst I did note the different stat in the tooltip for repair admiral being % I didnt realise exactly how that worked and just trusted that having a nanite repair module made my fleets (BS only) more tactically flexible. Whilst its true that big hulls and a small number per day probably results in zero heavily damaged ships being fully repaired it would result in less hull lost if you "had" to keep fighting without repairing. What I now realise is that not using nanite modules and swapping repair admirals in after the fight is waaaaay superior. I also do note from this video something that should have occurred to me, most of the time when fighting a lot or when far from home you will often be able to conduct repairs at captured enemy starbases. Maybe removing this would be a good move. Unable to repair our ships at alien fleet yards due to wrong equipment, lack of skilled personnel etc. They really should fix the repair modules to be in line with the repair admiral. Or remove the repair modules, which would be a shame. I mean even if they fix the repair modules, why use them when you could use the admiral to way greater effect (factoring in extra dps modules instead of repair modules(.
My last two playthroughs I've actually gotten nanites through an event, can't remember if it was an anomaly or an archeology site. Both times it was very early game, and it gave me 200 nanotechnology and a edict to use them for a 10% research boost.
Is it possible to request an update on the video? after like a few years, it seems, that the devs fixxed the issue of these modules and made them % based; shield charger didn't change, althou it would be balanced to add a bit of a % regen to shields too through that as a unique modifier to that aux without modding the game. As of now, regenerative hull tissue 0.5% hull 1% armor regen, nanobot repair 1.5% hull 2% armor regen, repair cloud aura 0.5% hull, 1.5% armor regen and they should stack. Combat fixes would be a lot easier with these values now :) A simple weapon file modification with ~50% damage reduction (except PD and cloud lightning/ arc emitter) would make those weapon slots worth picking finaly.
While not great for combat regen gives you the ability to carry on wars far from your territory, control the hyperlanes more, and better weather wars of attrition. I'll still use it for more imperial fleets but not when playing a pacifist or federation game.
This, it basically means I don't have to pull fleets all the way back for repair, I can just leapfrog a fresh force ahead while the depleted fleet repairs and waits for any reinforcements to catch up to the main advance.
FInally one of these videos that vidicates my pre-watching decisions. I never really felt the regen modules were worth it but like keeping an engineer admiral to swap in to damaged fleets, especially when they're not facing much resistance or have to hold a point. Then I'll swap them out for combat oriented admirals when they actually need to fight.
In Midgame, when Engineers arent available, It keeps the fleet reasonable repaired and can reduce losses in situations when retreating to a Station just isnt feasable. Its not great, but definitily has its uses.
on actual battel fleets it is useless, but i find regenerative hull tissue ok for roaming hunger-seeker fleets in mid to late game. those usually do not get damaged too much. a group of ships far outside my own territory can slowly heal in between battles. i usually set them up with admirals that give a speed bonus for maximum mobility. unless i encounter a significant force i do not have to go back for repairs ever, cutting down on travel time significantly.
Its convient for me when conducting wars on the other end of the galaxy. Especially if there arent many gateways. I can get in some repairs while i bomb the planets for my armies
It may not be the most efficient way to do it, but I for one like having the regenerative tissue on my ships - simply because some repair is better than no repair. And if I go for firepower-advantage I don't take that much damage to begin with. That, and modules don't simply die and need replacing every few years.
You can also get regenerative hull tissue tech from the khans horde if they spawn and you haven't managed to get it from space wildlife yet, not sure if you can get it from regular marauders but its possible.
You could also view this as 60-100 HP Repair when you move from one fight in a System to the next one. Having this is quite nice when you are in a mobbing up situation where you just engage a lot of smaller fleets and starbases who never manage to do more damage than that. It just allows you to press an attack and to finish of an empire quickly even if you are unlucky and just didn't manage to roll the required admiral. Especially against Ai Empries, who never rarely concentrate their fleets but rather erode yours away I feel Hull Tissue beeing worth it. Also, if you have to move through hostile systems to engage an enemy fleet this can make sure your ships get there fully intact. But Obviously it's not the right choice if you want to fight the concentrated fleet of a peer opponent in a decisive battle right at your doorstep. But it saves you from having to worry that a lucky torpedo from the next Starfort (of 100 you have to clear from your enourmus, but missmanged AI Neighbor) kills one of your Battleships, just because you didn't want to stop for a repair.
If you are willing to micromanage your fleet a bit, you can switch your admiral outside of combat to repair your ship and then switch back to a more effective admiral in combat, maybe a Mercenary Warrior.
I kinda came to the same conclusion , the admirals are useful for certain tactics but generally i rather raid or fall back to a nearby star base and let my ships repair there, the modules are just not worth the slots considering the time it takes to repair the ships with them.
I find that stacking multiple regens on blobs of battleships and cruisers is good for mid game compstomping when you're just cruising around and bombarding planets and bullying smaller fleets. I do also tend to play with a gorillion mods that include a tradition tree and a trait that also gives regen, so there is more to stack.
Could be reworked to make reg. Hull tissue (and nanites) non-percentile for Cruisers and larger (but buffed substantially compared to now) and percentile for destroyers and corvettes. To make it more relevant. Or lets just say Reg. Hull tissue is non-percentile (still buffed to now) and Nanites are inherently percentile buffs to hull and armor regeneration. Maybe only giving 0.25% (or 0.33% or anything if you can get more Engineers except for RNG, if RNG-based traits still are the norm, just giving it 0.5% would be fair) for daily regen, but stackable with Engineer. Also Naval Academy rework like @Joyde wrote in his comment to add to this change. That way you have Nanites for Cruisers and larger or Battleships and larger, and Reg. Hull tissue for smaller crafts. Giving each a role on its own.
I personally have my carriers use repair and capacitors in the A slot and run most of my fleets with the nanobot cloud aura (Auxiliary Fire Control is on the pure artillery ships and my Titans have a Capacitor AFT and Regenerative Hull
It definitely should be a percentile, otherwise there are definite diminishing returns with larger classes. But the question for me isn't whether or not you should or shouldn't use a module, it is where does this module fit best in your strategic or tactical planning. I use mods with larger ship classes and such so maybe my thoughts aren't the best for standard, but I prefer putting regenerative hull tissue on cruisers and destroyers in strategic raiding fleets, jumping into an enemy's rear lines and attacking their mining and research stations, as well as certain starbases. using the regenerative hull tissue, or better repair modules on these fast fleets allow me to use them for longer in their intended role, rather than having to make them retreat after every battle.
I don't use crystalline armour because it just extends the time it takes for hull regen to complete. Regular armour takes better advantage of the armour regen to return your ship to combat readiness faster. Even if it means less overall hitpoints, I'd rather have a fleet that can tough it out in hostile territory, than one that I have to pull back to a starbase and lose momentum to the enemy. Plus, the glass cannon method is superior in that your enemy can't destroy your ships if they're already dead before they get in range.
Regenerative Hull Tissue was really big at my university in the early 2000s. I saw them live at least five times. Unfortunately, their recent unplugged album, Lost Amoeba, was a wandering thoughtless failed experiment.
1000% worth it; i use most time 75% armor- 25% shields and yes the fleets are expensive but can not only defend proper, it can raid, RAID long... i love reg! Mechanic and Titans with reg aura on top :D
One thing I noticed when playing Terravore was that the regen from that appears to only repair when ships are stationary. That is to say, when your fleets stop in space, they go into the repair state. Have you confirmed if even shields repair in combat? I realize that 1 HP/d is only about 2% of a single large artillery weapon (of any type), but it could still make a measurable difference if, somehow, a ship stops being targeted. Similarly, it could be worth investigating if any of these recover while in the disengaged state. After all, you're not going to be flying back to base while a ship is disengaged but the battle is still ongoing.
Always found Regenerative Hull Tissue to be invaluable early game before living metal can be found or researched. Especially as you get farther away from supply lines.
I have a mod called dust of endless or something like that and there are two ascension perks that give +1% hull and armor regen which will add up to 2% and it's pretty op
I've found these modifiers remain more relevant when you have a slowed down tech and unity game, meaning your stuck without the advanced techs way longer and therefore making Regen hulls and armors better.
I counter that your admiral can only be on a single fleet at a given time and that rotation of which fleet is pushing forward and which fleet is performing rear functions (bombardment, chasing a raiding force, e.t.c) having them healing while remaining mobile is a god send especially when I run bigger galaxies or modded for stupid big galaxies (25000 systems just feels more real to me)
I only use regenerative hull tissue on small destroyer fleets I use to whack-a-mole pirates and claim T1 or 2 starbases during a war. They can quite happily claim undefended systems without losing ships or having to return to repair.
He acknowledged the change in a weapons teir and defense platform vid. It changed from a base regen, to a percentage regen. So, instead of taking years, it only takes about 1 to fully regen a damaged ship. It also works while in combat, which is basically extra armor if you last long enough.
You've forgot 2 important point imo. Armor regen and time. Since your ship constently regenerate even in battle, if you have armor and shield, your hull will continue to regen. And keep in mind that travel between star takes time, each travel give a portion of a ship's hull and armor. Last thing if you use regen comp, use armor not crystal plating because you don't use the best part of the component.
so many things wrong with this ananlysis. For one thing its been my experience that you often get the regenerative hull tissue fairly early in the game, and at that point the damage output is quite low. you will actually be repairing your ship in the middle of combat which so it is essentially adding armor and hull points to each ship. Yes, by the time you have titans you can probably put better things on your ships than regenerative hull tissue... but when its early game, the weapons are not doing a lot of damage slapping one of those on can make a significant difference.
Not too mention, you can put in lets say a cautious admiral for the extra fore range. Once out of combat swap for an engineer admiral. Cant swap components on the fly like you can admirals.
would have liked to see the devouring swarm bonus in the graph, obviously would be the same as engineer on its own but would have been nice to see if they stacked.
Unrelated, have you done/can you do a video on point defense vs flak cannons? I've always assumed point defense was better because of the range but i'm curious to see the results of your tests.
I see what you're saying, but I'll have to disagree because of my playstyle. I rush it ASAP. Typically, I'll spam corvettes, make quick repairs at the station I conquered once it's back up and keep moving. It's pretty rare for me that Engineer Admiral shows up, so I can't rely on. Hull regen has always kept my ships in the fight and steamroll the other empires while their fleets have disengaged losing time.
If you take a starbases just repair there. So so much better than any regen modules. Getting an extra 1000 or more with repeatables shield hp or way more tracking i.e more damage 5-10% more. Regen is almost useless in most cases.
Montu they changed the regen module and nanite repair system modules. Check the wiki! How do they compare to shield regen builds? Full armor vs full shield
Hi I am Shard, I like maneuver warfare, hate the .75x hyperlane density thats almost as common as 1.0 for being galactic trench warfare, and am a simp for 1.5x hyperlane density. On 1.0+ corvetes with tissue are VERY disruptive, you can only be caught by afterburner corvettes since you never stop at stations. Destroyers can do a similar thing though its less impressive, as can cruisers, you never want tissue battleships, battleships are purely decisive battle doctrine weapons and as such things that don't have you winning that big battle are worthless.
Full armour Dragonscale armour Battleships, Devouring Swarm + Engineer Admiral + Double Nanite Repair Systems. That's 72.6 Hull Regen and 74.6 Armour Regen PER DAY! Anything that does less damage then that per day, will be rendered pointless. And that's BEFORE stacking armour repeatables!
Ah yes, the thing that got buffed, then nerfed, and has been kept the same ever since. At the beginning, % per month, was totally useless, since you could only get a total of 1% per month (Even if it stated per day), but then they changed it to % per day (Which worked this time), but had a way lover % like one was 0.25% so you couldn't get too much out of it. But then changed it to a static number per day. Overall, people complained on each and everyone of them. They should change them back to % per day, like they should be able to get up to similar strength as Shield Regen per day that works in Combat just like shields. Currently, with a Engineer captain, Devouring Swarm, and Titan repair aura, we get a total of 1.5% so from 0 to 100% it would take 67 days (1.5 times 67 = 100.5%). Along with the Nanorepair of +3 Hull, +4 Armour. For a total of +6 and +8 on larger ships. It just doesn't cut it, and I have noticed while in combat, it just stops repairing most of the time.
Repair traits and parts are imo fairly useful. More so when engaged in in long drawn out battles against endgame crisis when capture of bases isn't really viable.
i would be far more interested in how it stacks up in early game pre 2300 or 2350 ish late game comparisons to such a early game module aren't really fair.
I wish the modules was a % repair like the Engineer.
If it was, then the argument would be quite different if they could stack.
Exactly! Little is more annoying than having to cede and later retake territory cause you had to fall back a year's worth of travel to your nearest base.
It was a % at the time of release, I think it was until 2.0 or something, but it was nerfed for some reason nobody knows most thought it was a error, as it's not use full at all now, as it's weaker than anything else you can take. I think it was because it was moved from battleships as a ability to a ship utility or something like that, it was something like a AOE and it stacked too I think.
@@-JustHuman- They just added it back in the beta
@@user-ii8od4wu5p I know, though the Beta might change it again for some reason as it seems they are a bit lost on some of the things right now :P
This makes me want to see them rework the Military Academy building. Have it so once you build it, you can enact a leader decision to focus every admiral that comes off of this planet to have a specific trait. Which would make military empires build academies on all their worlds so they have a wide variety of admirals/general to pick from, which would make sense thematically and game wise.
You need to post this on paradox stellaris ideas form
+
Seems broken since of course what would you even pick over dps or convenient logistics.
Infinite micro
That would make SO much more sense than a non-global set of starter experience. Definitely would be a welcome change.
Ships can repair (and be built) at juggernauts, too, which are mobile (albeit slow), making the regenerative hull modules even less cost effective.
Problem tends to be you can only build one Juggernaut, it’s slow, and your fleets are going to be distributed across a given territory, making it hard for them to withdraw and repair. You’re right about it being a mobile repair yard, but it suffers from the same problem that going back to a star base has: it still takes a long time to withdraw to repair with it.
Also I've seen both the go back and heal and upgrade orders being canceled whenever my Juggernaut leaves a system.
Not fun.
Still better than not having it.
@@MatthewChenault I still like to have the Juggernaut as my FOB in a choke point system from where my attack fleets scatter from. Leaving it alone is not problem as long as your forward offensive blocks any stray fleets that might pose a danger to the Juggernaut
@@skeltaldelegate5408 the only issue with the juggernaut being a fob is that by itself its slightly softer than your typical fully decked out fleet. Ofcourse you can jump it out of danger
Yes, but those are very slow at moving around.
Since you can swap admirals for free, i really like just keeping one in reserve (so it doesnt die in a fight), and swapping them in when i need repairs after battle
I've found Regen hull to actually be decent in Corvette spam fleets. Since they evade alot, they can actually survive long enough to fully repair. Also those few points of Regen really do add up when multiplied by 100
But its only strict on Menance Cov, which has 2 ultility slots. You use it on normal cov means you cannot equip afterburner. But if you use on Menance cov, its speed is below 300, make it not effective
Works best on Corvettes because the flat regen has a higher % regen rate for the corvettes, considering they have the lowest armor/hull ratings.
@@superspies32 you dont need afterburners to get max evasion of Corvettes
@@jorgejustin461 I don’t says about evade, but speed. At late game you need a very high speed to intercept FA/AE that can warp to your territory. Slow-ass Bs and Cruisers cannot intercept them. Only the cov and Menance class that can reach 300 speed to chase those fleets.
@@sumarbrander3354 their fleet easy to kill with BS IF YOU CAN INTERCEPT THEM. Their fleet has speed outrun BS and you need a lot, a lot of cov to approach them. There was a case with AW Empire. Their main fleet 100k fleet power jump to my territory and wreak havoc inside, it cost me 5 100 cov fleet, 4 titans, 30BS and 50 years to hunt them down. BS completely useless since they move faster and jump faster.
Engineer admirals are a godsend when it comes to big slow battleship fleets that would take a long ass time (and potentially jeopardize holding strategic points) to get home to repair. Amazing for late game galactic “re-education” campaigns
I've always used gateways and lightning strikes then building up gateways to get around the travel time issues
@@PropheticShadeZ Honestly Gateway Networks are SO useful. Free Trade Value collection, free trade protection from wherever your fleet is hanging out, instant availability of any defensive fleets needed...
1:12
Crystalline Entities debris also give the Regenerative Hull Tissue technology.
Nah they give crystalline plating
@@t2force212
You also get that technology.
But you *do* get the Regenerative Hull Tissue technology as well my friend.
The biggest issue with the admiral is that traits are RNG-dependent.
you can just brute force that with enough energy. i do it all the time to get genius scientists and governors with a trait a want.
@@fabiandonvil you put that much effort into it?
@@fabiandonvil The issue is not the energy cost. The issue is the time investment, because of Stellaris horrible UI design.
I waste so much energy trying to find trickster and cautious admirals every game
Your leaders skills should be based on your empires traits. Something like deviants would throw rng to the mix to get non empire trait leaders more frequently.
Or be able to build leaders, the "cost" of certain criteria being cheaper or more expensive, again, based of your empire traits. This would limit building overpowered leaders in early game when energy is scarce and late game annoyance of just re rolling and dismissing leaders looking for the one you like.
I'm a fan of hull tissue and its contemporaries. Autorepair removes the ability for enemies to fight a war of attrition. They either have to force a neverending stream of battles on one fleet to destroy it to the last or be content that they wasted every shot that doesn't finish off a ship. It makes trickster admirals fun because every ship that retreats is back to full in very short order. Also saves the time and resources needed sending them home to repair. It should also be noted that hull tissue and its contemporaries work on EVERY ship simultaneously whether they're in combat or not, whereas a starbase can only concurrently repair ships up to its shipyard limit and is interrupted if the fleet gets engaged. The bigger the fleet, the longer it takes for a base to repair the whole thing, whereas regeneration of any kind doesn't take turns. An engineer admiral is also great...IF they ever appear in the pool.
Oh and I could be wrong but I'm fairly confident that any form of regeneration STACKS with active starbase repairs...feel free to disprove, that one's just an intuitive hypothesis.
I have this issue. IF they appear, I've gone entire games where I haven't seen one. That might be my mods doing stuff, but its still important to consider.
These graphs where clearly compiled by big auxiliary fire control.
You maximise your hull on ships so they have an increased chance of disengaging. This is because disengagement is the best defence against attrition.
Hull regeneration continues while your ship is disengaged. You don't need to regenerate all of your hull, you only need to regenerate the health lost beyond the 50% threshold to retain maximum chance to disengage on the next battle.
A ship that enters battle with 50% hull has the same chance to avoid destruction as one with 100%.
Regeneration can get a ship from 45% to 50% in the time it takes for a battle to end, it doesn't seem like much but that 5% can be the difference between disengaging on the next fight or exploding.
Disengagement and hull have a synergistic relationship.
The same is true for Disengagement and hull regeneration.
Great video Montu! Would love to see one on when exactly you should switch from crystal plating to armor once you get into repeatables, especially since the ship designer doesn't take repeatables into account.
I think around 5 or 6 repeatables is the spot
“… the opportunity cost of ….”
Ah. Music to my economist ears.
Armor heavy ruisers with AB and Regen can be devastating in chasing down broken fleets as you can pursue without repairing and catch the enemy as they come out of E-warp. the regen gives you a slight edge as you can repair some from last engage while the enemy is stuck in E-warp. of course engineer admiral would be better, but they can be hard to find. If you have the engineer admiral ditch the armor and add a second AB.
Mostly I take it for the strategic advantage, being able to repair without starbases gives your fleets a LOT of flexibility, and that makes you faster and more mobile than your enemy.
In the two years or so of having stellaris, I think I've seen an engineer once, maybe twice. In early game when you've just smashed their main fleet that hull tissue regen is a godsend, especially when your near tech parity, and rolling up the closer systems, travel time is about 60 days between fights it adds up just enough to keep your fleet in the fight as well as possibly force a favorable peace
idea : reroll until you get an engeneer admiral, and switch with your normal admiral between fights. You can do it at any time regardless where your fleet is
Galaxy brain
Honestly, I personally really like Regenerative Hull Tissue.
It's a very small amount of healing, sure... but it lets you ignore minor scrapes and bumps that would otherwise add up, and push on for another combat, pressing your enemies without that time intensive tactical retreat.
This is why I usually put it on one of the slots with battleships. If you're just holding a chokepoint against largely weaker fleets and need a bit of regen just to slowly build back up it can be quite useful imo
@@Doombot221, same with the grey tempest. If you get bogged down, that regen helps save ships that would otherwise be lost and take time to replace and transit to the frontline.
The cool thing about the description of regenerative hull tissue is the use of genetically engineered bacteria. Very soon all concrete made in the world will include specialized bacteria combined with a source of food. When the concrete cracks and oxygen seeps in, the bacteria will start eating the food and secreting calcium deposits, and automatically repairing the cracks! It will be so interesting to see some of these futuristic technologies appear in the real world!
if only there was armour on the ships, you would get 3 times as much out of those modules.
yeah, I found the charts misleading because they were based on mostly no armor ships. It's obviously better to use a mixed shield armor when running regeneration. instead of taking 150 days he could have a healthy fleet in 75 days, which would be worth it if you have to punch through a lot of dead space with no stations nearby.
I tend to use the engineer admiral on federation fleets. Having a 500+ size fleet just repair on the go is incredibly useful.
Agree and disagree... mostly on the opportunity cost of using an engineer admiral vs something like gale force on corvettes. Corvettes aren't the ultimate ship for big battles, but they ARE the ultimate ship for securing territory quickly and still being able to concentrate firepower for big battles. Having a speed or damage upgrade on them helps you to lock down territory faster, which is ultimately the point of fighting a war. Also, earlier in the game before hull researches and crystal plating, the flat regeneration rates are much more powerful than later game. And the armor regen is MOST of the benefit of nanites/tissue, which adds up to a lot on corvettes with armor. But on the bigger ships it's pretty clear that you're losing out.
So, regen tissue is strong on corvettes early game, but should be phased out.
Well, as Montu said, flat figures is stronger on less hull, and % is weaker. But the greatest thing about therepair admiral is that you can bounce him between fleets as necessary, and sun in combat/mobility admiral as required. That is an advantage none of the techs have.
The Regen Hull Tissue was WAAAYYY better (and actually useful) when it was percentage based instead of being a fixed amount. Now it's only useful for corvettes and becomes increasingly more useless the larger the ship is. Just to put it into perspective;
A corvette (~300 HP) with 1 RHT will take up to 300 days to fully repair. Okay, not bad but not brilliant.
A battleship (~4000 HP) with 2 RHT will take up to 2000 days (~6 years) to fully repair..... Utterly worthless.....
Edit: Yeah I wrote this down before he even did the maths.... feels kinda redundant now lol....
in early game regenerative tissue was a great boon since it allowed to keep on the offensive instead of having to go dock after each attack.
i guess that since it's a base amount instead of a ratio, it get worse later when ships become bigger. but i always appreciated the lower logistic hassle of repairing on the run.
the damage output of the enemies is also significantly lower, low enough that the regeneration can make a significant difference by essentially adding a bunch of extra armor and hull points
This is why around 2350-2400 I fire all of my admirals and replace them with Engineer Admirals. When you're fighting the endgame at 25x strength, getting rid of the need to stop by a starbase to repair after every battle can really help you keep the momentum going when you're going on the offensive.
Not wholesale firing of your ranked up admirals! I like to have a couple engineers, and swap them to the fleets that are damaged. The healthy fleets get the +20% range admiral or fire rate admiral when attacking 25x crises.
When I played 25x crisis my ships got basically one shotted. I just removed a left only 1 anti hull x weapon and shields. Nothing to regenerate
@@muradm7748 with enough repeatable tech your ships can start surviving 25x crises not often, but sometimes I get battleships warping out of fight (surviving)
@@roblaquiere8220 that means pretty late end of game tho, i just use shield boosts or nothing with range admiral, aint nobody have time for that regeneration
with the new updates and patches, they have changed regenerative hull tissues, it now give a daily 0.5% hull regen and a daily 1% armour regen, i wonder if it will be now a good thing to add to ships, would be fun to see an update to this video with the new regenerative hull tissue effect.
i wonder if the nanites one did change, i would think yes but i have yet to get it with the new patch, anyways great job with these video, they are very informative and helpful
Excellent video! The only thing I missed, was admiral+titan aura as a comparable factor. I often wrestle with deciding if the overall utility of repairing aura outweighs the loss of the other offensive /defensive auras.
i use hullregen on everything and its working very well for me. i loose a lot less ships because they start consecutive engagements with more health and it saves valuable time and resources i would need to spend backtracking to a station and rebuilding losses. combined with increased dissengagement chance, my fleets are practicly immortal.
i also hardly every use aux.targeting, i prefer afterburners. i like my fleets fast and immortal. they cant kill me and they cant catch/outrun me, im in total control at all times.
it might not be meta, but i enjoy it a lot. ;)
Its good to know Montu uses the proper name for the Amoeba friend :)
Its much better on corvettes/destroyers and help significantly against strike fighters (if you run Armor) and disruptors (since their DMG per shot is so low). Its also a very, very bad idea to consider it a "recovery" system and its much better to recognize its a survivability system for the early to mid game. Engineer Admirals are great, but only if you roll one (spending 2k energy credits for an engineering admiral thats only marginally better for small ships is a giant waste when you could go trickster instead). I think this video is viewing Regenerative Hull in its worst light, it is actually quite strong in helping fight against strike fighters with Armor/Hull based ships (I don't like shields on corvettes, their counters mostly bypass shields) since the regeneration occurs at all times and alot of early to midgame battles last a very long time comparative to late-game (which can almost be instant), this adds up significantly and can help determine a ship disengages instead of being destroyed.
Anything that is a battleship or larger will always be better off with an Engineer Admiral or more firepower, its basic math and a basic understanding of the battlespace battleships, titans and Juggernauts operate in. Fleet strategy that revolves around firepower being emphasized to the extreme (which is what artillery battleships are, if you could trade out armor/shields/hull for more guns you would), is countered by those with more firepower or can avoid it entirely. Regen in stellaris (not starbase repairs), since it operates in combat, has two functions, increasing survivability and improving recovery. The way it extends survivability is by effectively increasing Hull/Armor by the regen value(s) for each day it avoids damage while in combat, provided, it isn't outright destroyed; Recovery is self-explanatory. In the late game, outright destruction of smaller ships is almost guaranteed and larger ships dont get enough regen from the component to mitigate enough damage to survive the second volley.
But in the early to midgame, this is a different story, outright destruction is considerably rarer, and battles can last a decent while as HP (crystal plating is equivalent to T4 armor/shields and shields are going to be upgraded anyway) is easier to acquire in the early to midgame than damage (upgraded basic weapons are not as powerful as their T4 L slot brethren). So in the early to midgame, this is, from what ive experienced, one of the better components to run if you are destroyer/corvette heavy fighting lots of smaller ships or strike fighter based fleets, but it is only truly effective, if you run at least one armor slot (this is honestly true with engineer as well). For some games, that cost is too great (MORE CG FOR THE SCIENCE GODS), for others (haha scrap miner go brrr), its fine.
Something else to consider for these early battles is that you can triple the effectiveness of the regeneration by swapping out a single crystal plate for some armor. You lose some ehp but since damage to the armor first is assumed for everything bar disruptors, the +2/+4 armor regen will kick in much earlier than the hull regen (from any source) and will continue to counter small amounts of damage throughout the entire lifespan of the ship.
@@dangerface300 very true and for RP players like myself who always have some armour on a ship it wasn't even something I thought about
3.3 patch notes:
Regenerative Hull Tissue, Nanite Repair System and Nanobot Cloud have had their values sliced in half however they now heal on a percentage basis rather than a static one leading to a net buff in most situations.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: If you’re playing in a huge galaxy and you’re far away from allied territory, then it’s useful, especially for keeping your fleet’s health topped off. It isn’t a replacement for Star bases, but it’s useful for keeping your fleet on campaign for much longer than they would otherwise be and offer the benefit of making your repair time slightly less.
In other words, if you’re going on campaign and don’t have easy access to a port, it’s useful, especially if it might take a year or more to return to port. If you’re dealing with an aggressive AI or something like a Crisis, then withdrawing back to port might not be viable at all.
It's especially useful when the AI goes full retard and makes exclusively battleships armed with shield-penetrating missiles and fighters that ignore shields, and suddenly every battle leaves your fleet in a position where its armor and hull is damage and some of your important ships are hanging on by a thread.
There is also an issue of a thing called Federation fleet that you sometimes don't control and whomever controls it is braindead or rather brainabsent. So it's YOUR job to make a design that will have staying power and endurance to delay for as long as possible far away from anywhere useful. And that means designs that can top off on their own...
When I played against crisis I just built battleships and I didn't struggle at all. If you have enough ships the enemy will never have to chance to hit you and if they do, then you have a jump drive to pull the damaged one back
Also if you put recovery modules you lose battle abilities of your ships, make them weaker and opponents have more time to deal damage which of course you can heal(veeeery slowly), but that was excessive damage which you shouldn't take
And argument about huge galaxies isn't a huge deal, since you such technologies like: jump drive and gates and worms which make your life easier to go through galaxy. In case you wanna kill crisis on the other side of the galaxy with no friends their: why bother? Defend your borders, built fortress and gates. Time always works on player in this case. More time - more alloys - more ships
@@l_ArAxus_l, that’s not really much of an argument against them, since, even with them, it’ll still take about a year or so for your ships to return to a port to repair. A year is enough for the enemy to regroup and begin a counter offensive, especially if they’re something like an awakened ascendancy and you’re having to fight through territory without any ports you can use.
By the time you withdrew, repaired, and went back into combat, you’d have burned away two years, which would be enough time for them to get more battleships online to strike against your earlier gains.
That’s less of an issue if you can capture a star port, but the primary issue is you still have to capture a star port in the first place. Without the Hull regen modules, you have to focus more heavily on assault ports and capturing them as soon as possible while being bound to them throughout most of the war. With Hull regen, you aren’t as dependent on them to fight a campaign, which affords you the opportunity to be more aggressive than before.
As an added bonus, it makes a war less attrition heavy. After all, when you have to fight a bunch of outposts, they can, and often will, still do some damage to your fleet, which will slowly whittle your escort vessels down if you’re not careful.
I always have a regenerative hull on my battleships. It's not good for full repairs but it keeps the fleet from getting attritioned. Battle ships are so slow it's painful to pull them away from the front line to repair.
Thing is, damaging the enemy faster will avoid damage, so you have to consider that.
I really just can't think of a single situation in which use of this is in any way justified
@@Xaphnir "If given the opportunity players will optimize the fun out of a game".
@@frazonedracaoo6981 I don't really see where the fun is in putting a module with negligible regen on your ships, but ok.
@@Xaphnir the fun is in not playing optimally.
@@Xaphnir You are absolutely correct from an efficiency standpoint, but I have done the same thing when my fleet power is much stronger, but the enemy is both far away and moves around a lot. I estimated that the time and energy saved for me as a player was worth it, so I could focus on more important areas and decisions.
But after seing this video with the numbercrunching, I won't do that anymore.
Seems like dividing fleets and letting damaged ships sit on captured starbases and repair and rejoin it's fleet when R&R is done is more efficient in the long run.
Oh wow, I had no idea regen hull tissue was so bad. I'll probably stop using/researching it in future games, then
Edit: I meant that I'll stop prioritising it over everything else
It’s not really that bad at all. This assumes that you’re repairing a ship from fully damaged to fully repaired, which isn’t likely in most cases. Also, the amount of time it takes for you to reach another battlefield (several hundred days, on average) still means you’ll get an additional 200+ Hull back that would otherwise not have been regenerated as well as an extra 400 armor. That’s enough to repair your corvettes fully if they’re half damaged.
It also means that battleships are less likely to retreat when the next combat occurs, since the regenerated Hull points will buff them above the 25% health limit for withdrawing ships, allowing for them to get off one or two salvos that they otherwise wouldn’t have gotten off.
I still use them because they’re handy at helping repair my ships enough to keep them on campaign and to repair minor damage suffered during smaller engagements (engaging smaller stations, smaller fleets, etc) so that, when you do engage the big fleets, you’ll have a full health fleet to meet up against the enemy fleet.
Ya don't be so fast the video is a bit misleading. It only covers 1 situation which is time to repair to full. It dousent even address the time it would take your fleet to get to and from the repair station. Your fleets even in war will spend most of their time travaling. With hull Regen travel time become healing time.
@@MatthewChenault Thanks for the extra info. To be more precise, what I meant was that I usually go for that regardless of everything else, even when it would be useful to choose other options for the first encounters or for research.
Usually, when I play, I have at least one fleet doing stuff in the other side of the galaxy, and I can definitely see the advantage in having those ships regenerating.
Still, I was probably overvaluing the tech, because I always assumed that the regeneration was percentage-based.
They are still my go to module on ships constantly repairing can help them stay alive when having to fight back to back battles especially in offensive wars
I really like using regen hull tissue, keeps me healthy in the early - mid game wars, especially offensive, where being slightly more damaged can get my ships routed, or lose momentum in order to repair.
I agree with your assessment. There is something to criticize. You told us how to get all the things to get the repair modules and all but you forgot the requirement for the engineer admiral namely Doctrine: Interstellar Warfare technology.
Since admiral traits are random without knowing that requirement one could start rolling and rolling and thinking one was just unlucky for not getting an engineer.
I once blew 10k energy before realizing that I literally couldn't roll an engineer since I didn't have the tech.
I like the idea of crew customisation for each ship, not individuals like a scientist but roles and units within every ship; engineers, security, psychologists, etc. and you decide how many are on each ship and this affects the stats in battle and outside of combat scenarios like speed, shield and hull integrity, etc. and ship size. I want to decide how big my corvettes are going to be like planet sizes; the bigger they are, the more they hold, and the class of ship determines the maximum size.
Good arguments, but I'm still getting that regenerate tissue due to my OCD.
I'm not taking my whole fleet back to a station just because a corvet is damaged, I'm not leaving the ship damaged and built a new one, and definitly not breaking the fleet and let the single ship went back to heal.
Seeing so many people agree or disagree with this video, I give you a like for bringing that discussion up.
Congratulations on 30k subs Montu.
Loving these deep dives into individual components.
@@Empdizz thanks for your support! It's crazy to be at 30,000 people subscribed.
I'm glad youre enjoying the videos! Anything you'd like to see that I haven't covered yet?
@@MontuPlays maybe an admiral comparison?
I’m sure trickster would come out on top, but who knows?
Psionic might be better or even the 20% range on Cautious might be better with an earlier alpha strike.
Hopefully I haven’t missed it if you’ve covered it.
Nanite repair system and other special resource modules is "free" on crisis ships; only requiring minerals or dark matter for the star eater
i would think crystal infused plating was better then if you ever get dragon skin armor get that for your corvette fleet.
Well you can't equip crystal plating in the A slot, so it doesn't have to compete with that component!
I find it useful for long pushes into the enemy really early or really late. Really early, there arent many stations to capture, and the few there are end up highly defensive. But really late, you take a lot of systems either empty or with large stations you cant wait at in order to keep up pressure.
Technically, you can also get passive repairs as one of the random boons from the Shroud. It's also 0.5% per day though.
As for the Hull Tissue, I think the main use of the thing is early game. You can get Hull Tissue incredibly early, before you get many other ship modules and also before you get crystaline plating. When using corvettes with actual armour, you basically repair 3 points per day, not 1 and its still a time when corvettes or destroyers actually are a considerable alloy cost (also given you are still using armour). Starbases also are not at every corner and fleets generally are slower, because thruster technology is low. This gives fleets some pretty decent ability to operate away from a base and allows the economy to sustain losses better. Just phase it out as your economy gets better and you get better ship designs.
Wow, I've always put a nanite regen module into my ships. Whilst I did note the different stat in the tooltip for repair admiral being % I didnt realise exactly how that worked and just trusted that having a nanite repair module made my fleets (BS only) more tactically flexible. Whilst its true that big hulls and a small number per day probably results in zero heavily damaged ships being fully repaired it would result in less hull lost if you "had" to keep fighting without repairing. What I now realise is that not using nanite modules and swapping repair admirals in after the fight is waaaaay superior.
I also do note from this video something that should have occurred to me, most of the time when fighting a lot or when far from home you will often be able to conduct repairs at captured enemy starbases. Maybe removing this would be a good move. Unable to repair our ships at alien fleet yards due to wrong equipment, lack of skilled personnel etc.
They really should fix the repair modules to be in line with the repair admiral. Or remove the repair modules, which would be a shame. I mean even if they fix the repair modules, why use them when you could use the admiral to way greater effect (factoring in extra dps modules instead of repair modules(.
Regenerative Hull tissue is my default and a must have for me.
My last two playthroughs I've actually gotten nanites through an event, can't remember if it was an anomaly or an archeology site. Both times it was very early game, and it gave me 200 nanotechnology and a edict to use them for a 10% research boost.
Is it possible to request an update on the video? after like a few years, it seems, that the devs fixxed the issue of these modules and made them % based; shield charger didn't change, althou it would be balanced to add a bit of a % regen to shields too through that as a unique modifier to that aux without modding the game.
As of now, regenerative hull tissue 0.5% hull 1% armor regen, nanobot repair 1.5% hull 2% armor regen, repair cloud aura 0.5% hull, 1.5% armor regen and they should stack.
Combat fixes would be a lot easier with these values now :)
A simple weapon file modification with ~50% damage reduction (except PD and cloud lightning/ arc emitter) would make those weapon slots worth picking finaly.
While not great for combat regen gives you the ability to carry on wars far from your territory, control the hyperlanes more, and better weather wars of attrition. I'll still use it for more imperial fleets but not when playing a pacifist or federation game.
This, it basically means I don't have to pull fleets all the way back for repair, I can just leapfrog a fresh force ahead while the depleted fleet repairs and waits for any reinforcements to catch up to the main advance.
For the next video please cover War Doctrines and how they effect fleets and what is the best for each fleet.
After all the changes in 3.6 none of this makes sense. We need you again, Montu!
FInally one of these videos that vidicates my pre-watching decisions.
I never really felt the regen modules were worth it but like keeping an engineer admiral to swap in to damaged fleets, especially when they're not facing much resistance or have to hold a point. Then I'll swap them out for combat oriented admirals when they actually need to fight.
In Midgame, when Engineers arent available, It keeps the fleet reasonable repaired and can reduce losses in situations when retreating to a Station just isnt feasable. Its not great, but definitily has its uses.
on actual battel fleets it is useless, but i find regenerative hull tissue ok for roaming hunger-seeker fleets in mid to late game. those usually do not get damaged too much.
a group of ships far outside my own territory can slowly heal in between battles. i usually set them up with admirals that give a speed bonus for maximum mobility.
unless i encounter a significant force i do not have to go back for repairs ever, cutting down on travel time significantly.
Its convient for me when conducting wars on the other end of the galaxy. Especially if there arent many gateways. I can get in some repairs while i bomb the planets for my armies
Tho this has changed with the update to fleet reinforcements and juggernaughts. We will see by how much tho
It may not be the most efficient way to do it, but I for one like having the regenerative tissue on my ships - simply because some repair is better than no repair. And if I go for firepower-advantage I don't take that much damage to begin with. That, and modules don't simply die and need replacing every few years.
I regenerated that like button
"Look buddy, I'm an Engineer..."
You can split off damaged ships when selecting a fleet with damaged ships. You can even use your engineer admiral for the fleet you spilt up.
You can also get regenerative hull tissue tech from the khans horde if they spawn and you haven't managed to get it from space wildlife yet, not sure if you can get it from regular marauders but its possible.
You could also view this as 60-100 HP Repair when you move from one fight in a System to the next one. Having this is quite nice when you are in a mobbing up situation where you just engage a lot of smaller fleets and starbases who never manage to do more damage than that. It just allows you to press an attack and to finish of an empire quickly even if you are unlucky and just didn't manage to roll the required admiral. Especially against Ai Empries, who never rarely concentrate their fleets but rather erode yours away I feel Hull Tissue beeing worth it. Also, if you have to move through hostile systems to engage an enemy fleet this can make sure your ships get there fully intact.
But Obviously it's not the right choice if you want to fight the concentrated fleet of a peer opponent in a decisive battle right at your doorstep. But it saves you from having to worry that a lucky torpedo from the next Starfort (of 100 you have to clear from your enourmus, but missmanged AI Neighbor) kills one of your Battleships, just because you didn't want to stop for a repair.
If you are willing to micromanage your fleet a bit, you can switch your admiral outside of combat to repair your ship and then switch back to a more effective admiral in combat, maybe a Mercenary Warrior.
I kinda came to the same conclusion , the admirals are useful for certain tactics but generally i rather raid or fall back to a nearby star base and let my ships repair there, the modules are just not worth the slots considering the time it takes to repair the ships with them.
I find that stacking multiple regens on blobs of battleships and cruisers is good for mid game compstomping when you're just cruising around and bombarding planets and bullying smaller fleets. I do also tend to play with a gorillion mods that include a tradition tree and a trait that also gives regen, so there is more to stack.
Could be reworked to make reg. Hull tissue (and nanites) non-percentile for Cruisers and larger (but buffed substantially compared to now) and percentile for destroyers and corvettes. To make it more relevant. Or lets just say Reg. Hull tissue is non-percentile (still buffed to now) and Nanites are inherently percentile buffs to hull and armor regeneration. Maybe only giving 0.25% (or 0.33% or anything if you can get more Engineers except for RNG, if RNG-based traits still are the norm, just giving it 0.5% would be fair) for daily regen, but stackable with Engineer. Also Naval Academy rework like @Joyde wrote in his comment to add to this change.
That way you have Nanites for Cruisers and larger or Battleships and larger, and Reg. Hull tissue for smaller crafts. Giving each a role on its own.
Yea i rarely put those systems on. I never gave much thought w/ the repair admirial . Good tip.
I personally have my carriers use repair and capacitors in the A slot and run most of my fleets with the nanobot cloud aura
(Auxiliary Fire Control is on the pure artillery ships and my Titans have a Capacitor AFT and Regenerative Hull
It definitely should be a percentile, otherwise there are definite diminishing returns with larger classes. But the question for me isn't whether or not you should or shouldn't use a module, it is where does this module fit best in your strategic or tactical planning.
I use mods with larger ship classes and such so maybe my thoughts aren't the best for standard, but I prefer putting regenerative hull tissue on cruisers and destroyers in strategic raiding fleets, jumping into an enemy's rear lines and attacking their mining and research stations, as well as certain starbases. using the regenerative hull tissue, or better repair modules on these fast fleets allow me to use them for longer in their intended role, rather than having to make them retreat after every battle.
I don't use crystalline armour because it just extends the time it takes for hull regen to complete. Regular armour takes better advantage of the armour regen to return your ship to combat readiness faster. Even if it means less overall hitpoints, I'd rather have a fleet that can tough it out in hostile territory, than one that I have to pull back to a starbase and lose momentum to the enemy. Plus, the glass cannon method is superior in that your enemy can't destroy your ships if they're already dead before they get in range.
Sounds like devs need to make Regen % based for all modules
Regenerative Hull Tissue was really big at my university in the early 2000s. I saw them live at least five times. Unfortunately, their recent unplugged album, Lost Amoeba, was a wandering thoughtless failed experiment.
I think it's important to remember that it is a strategic advantage; not a tactical one.
1000% worth it; i use most time 75% armor- 25% shields and yes the fleets are expensive but can not only defend proper, it can raid, RAID long... i love reg! Mechanic and Titans with reg aura on top :D
One thing I noticed when playing Terravore was that the regen from that appears to only repair when ships are stationary. That is to say, when your fleets stop in space, they go into the repair state.
Have you confirmed if even shields repair in combat? I realize that 1 HP/d is only about 2% of a single large artillery weapon (of any type), but it could still make a measurable difference if, somehow, a ship stops being targeted. Similarly, it could be worth investigating if any of these recover while in the disengaged state. After all, you're not going to be flying back to base while a ship is disengaged but the battle is still ongoing.
Always found Regenerative Hull Tissue to be invaluable early game before living metal can be found or researched. Especially as you get farther away from supply lines.
I have a mod called dust of endless or something like that and there are two ascension perks that give +1% hull and armor regen which will add up to 2% and it's pretty op
I personally use repair modules on corvettes and destroyers, since I often use them as raiders.
For the bigger shiod there are better modules.
I've found these modifiers remain more relevant when you have a slowed down tech and unity game, meaning your stuck without the advanced techs way longer and therefore making Regen hulls and armors better.
I counter that your admiral can only be on a single fleet at a given time and that rotation of which fleet is pushing forward and which fleet is performing rear functions (bombardment, chasing a raiding force, e.t.c) having them healing while remaining mobile is a god send especially when I run bigger galaxies or modded for stupid big galaxies (25000 systems just feels more real to me)
I only use regenerative hull tissue on small destroyer fleets I use to whack-a-mole pirates and claim T1 or 2 starbases during a war. They can quite happily claim undefended systems without losing ships or having to return to repair.
Personally, I see it best found on Menacing Corvettes. Sprinkle Ravenous Hive for absolute terror.
I think this did change in one of the last patches
He acknowledged the change in a weapons teir and defense platform vid. It changed from a base regen, to a percentage regen. So, instead of taking years, it only takes about 1 to fully regen a damaged ship. It also works while in combat, which is basically extra armor if you last long enough.
You've forgot 2 important point imo.
Armor regen and time.
Since your ship constently regenerate even in battle, if you have armor and shield, your hull will continue to regen. And keep in mind that travel between star takes time, each travel give a portion of a ship's hull and armor.
Last thing if you use regen comp, use armor not crystal plating because you don't use the best part of the component.
so many things wrong with this ananlysis.
For one thing its been my experience that you often get the regenerative hull tissue fairly early in the game, and at that point the damage output is quite low. you will actually be repairing your ship in the middle of combat which so it is essentially adding armor and hull points to each ship. Yes, by the time you have titans you can probably put better things on your ships than regenerative hull tissue... but when its early game, the weapons are not doing a lot of damage slapping one of those on can make a significant difference.
All ship repair should be percent based with maybe it reaching half capacity while in battle
Not too mention, you can put in lets say a cautious admiral for the extra fore range. Once out of combat swap for an engineer admiral. Cant swap components on the fly like you can admirals.
would have liked to see the devouring swarm bonus in the graph, obviously would be the same as engineer on its own but would have been nice to see if they stacked.
Didn’t realize the general was percentile good to know
Unrelated, have you done/can you do a video on point defense vs flak cannons? I've always assumed point defense was better because of the range but i'm curious to see the results of your tests.
I see what you're saying, but I'll have to disagree because of my playstyle. I rush it ASAP. Typically, I'll spam corvettes, make quick repairs at the station I conquered once it's back up and keep moving. It's pretty rare for me that Engineer Admiral shows up, so I can't rely on. Hull regen has always kept my ships in the fight and steamroll the other empires while their fleets have disengaged losing time.
If you take a starbases just repair there. So so much better than any regen modules. Getting an extra 1000 or more with repeatables shield hp or way more tracking i.e more damage 5-10% more. Regen is almost useless in most cases.
Montu they changed the regen module and nanite repair system modules. Check the wiki! How do they compare to shield regen builds? Full armor vs full shield
Hi I am Shard, I like maneuver warfare, hate the .75x hyperlane density thats almost as common as 1.0 for being galactic trench warfare, and am a simp for 1.5x hyperlane density. On 1.0+ corvetes with tissue are VERY disruptive, you can only be caught by afterburner corvettes since you never stop at stations. Destroyers can do a similar thing though its less impressive, as can cruisers, you never want tissue battleships, battleships are purely decisive battle doctrine weapons and as such things that don't have you winning that big battle are worthless.
Full armour Dragonscale armour Battleships, Devouring Swarm + Engineer Admiral + Double Nanite Repair Systems.
That's 72.6 Hull Regen and 74.6 Armour Regen PER DAY!
Anything that does less damage then that per day, will be rendered pointless.
And that's BEFORE stacking armour repeatables!
well, on vanilla, early is kinda worth it for me, while late games just bring juggernaut, Modded? LAUGH IN 50 (Raw) and 5% Repair per day (stackable)
If the unbidden kill me one more time... I'll try this.
Ah yes, the thing that got buffed, then nerfed, and has been kept the same ever since.
At the beginning, % per month, was totally useless, since you could only get a total of 1% per month (Even if it stated per day), but then they changed it to % per day (Which worked this time), but had a way lover % like one was 0.25% so you couldn't get too much out of it.
But then changed it to a static number per day.
Overall, people complained on each and everyone of them.
They should change them back to % per day, like they should be able to get up to similar strength as Shield Regen per day that works in Combat just like shields.
Currently, with a Engineer captain, Devouring Swarm, and Titan repair aura, we get a total of 1.5% so from 0 to 100% it would take 67 days (1.5 times 67 = 100.5%).
Along with the Nanorepair of +3 Hull, +4 Armour. For a total of +6 and +8 on larger ships. It just doesn't cut it, and I have noticed while in combat, it just stops repairing most of the time.
Repair traits and parts are imo fairly useful. More so when engaged in in long drawn out battles against endgame crisis when capture of bases isn't really viable.
i would be far more interested in how it stacks up in early game pre 2300 or 2350 ish
late game comparisons to such a early game module aren't really fair.
Seems like the hull repair stuff is best used on the patrol fleets when you have to deal with internal piracy problems.