Talking About Warhammer: The Old World "Legacy Factions"
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ม.ค. 2024
- In this video, I share my thoughts on how GW is treating legacy factions for Warhammer: The Old World
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Never underestimate GWs ability to kick you in the balls
Because all of these factions have been, or will be, updated for AoS.
They want to seperate the systems, like when they stopped 40k players using Horus Heresy models.
Sounds plausible, but I am not sure. It looks like Beastmen will be in both systems in the same form. We will see.
@@TooMiniModels AoS shows say beastmen will be removed from AoS soon as well as bonesplitter orcs.
Who cares? AoS is a shitshow happening elsewhere. Nobody cares about AoS. Fuck AoS.
@@GilthosDrakoniss It's horrible. Maybe I should convert a few of my bestman models for 40k.
If GW only wanted to make a limited number of basic factions, why do we have 2x factions of humans? Why do we have 2x good Elves? Why didn't they choose the most specific and different armies like Skaven or Lizardmen for the core?
You are right, especially when they already sell most of the legacy factions in AOS!!!!! I feel like GW is in an awkward place with Old World and AOS, its like they don't want to fully commit to either.
I mean we knew these factions were not "core" since May 2023. They had to make the tournament statement for the serious tournament players. They can't come out and say "if things go well these factions will be added in a future edition or narrative" because they aren't committing to that but its obviously the plan. They are happy for people to play them and indeed want people to play them, just as they won't get rules updates they aren't having them in GW official events (which I would have expected from the May 2023 article). Live, Love and play warhammer guys, with whatever army you want. I am starting with Bretonnians because its always been one of my armies, I will later work on my Vampire Counts because its always been one of my armies too.
In my experience, most groups are gonna let you use legends rules, especially for specialist games like TOW, so while I think it sucks we won’t see any support for the factions I think in practice there’s nothing stopping anyone from getting to play em
Good points
Its not even avout the banning from tournaments that made me hate this news, its the fact i have 3 of my 4 whfb armies as "legacy", i find out fantasy is coming back and get hyped for new lore, novels and minis for my old armies, to then find out they will get exactly NONE of this.
So, it still feels like its not coming back at all.
True, but at least those ranges are all basically complete and still available today. And the fact that the old world is out now will mean more attention is going to be actively in this space continually. But I get it ultimately I think they will follow the money and interest of the audience. We will see .
It just comes down to the fact that GW as a business has made W:TOW a specialist games product
Specialist games studio can only do so much per unit of time, so that's why they made the distinction between core and non-core factions.,
So ironic as 40k used to be the specialist game and now it's the opposite
As a collector of vampire counts...I'm sad not to expect for a Vampire counts army boxset for exemple. However, I will try the game with this pdf, in order to be familiar with the rules, maybe when GW launches another of the 7 factions I get the boxset...maybe. I have hope in the narrative, no vampires ok😢..but what about necromancers? Henrich kemmler and Krell are out there?...
So are all the non Von Carstein bloodlines
I feel your pain. Used to play undead way back when they were just called Undead (4e). Now I have a 5e dark elf army waiting to be painted, complete with a sealed 5e cauldron, all 5e models except 1 box of 6e cold ones. Oldhammer goes in hard.
At least the model range is almost complete, a shame some aren't available right now. Hopefully we get the PDF soon!
Finally a chance to tacke my Dark Elf pile of shame (still have a seald 5e cauldron)
Sounds like fun! Hopefully we get the PDF rules soon!
Can't wait to play One Page Rules instead
Probably simpler
I understand 9 factions by why 2 chaos 2 elves 2 humans
I mean why are high elves involved narratively? They don’t even live in the old world?!
I’m annoyed as I have ogre kingdoms and tzeentch daemons and was fully intending to start skaven
I know technically I still can but I would like to play in tournaments and so will be forced to build a tertiary choice.
I agree, every faction interacts with the Old World eventually. I think the narrative should allow creative possibilities rather than diminish them.
Tbh if they spent 5 years just to get the current armies how much longer would it have took to get the rest, also it looks very similar to the first total war warhammer, they just swapped vampires with tomb kings.
Interesting observation. Good point!
I bought 2 big box of Soulblight to use in Old World, knowing it would be legacy but expecting them in a next season or something. This news is a bit dissapointing....
I agree
Well....looks like mistakes were made buying 2 ogor vanguard boxes and 2 irongut boxes for the old world...shit
I just got a box of Ogres for Warriors of Chaos, I am making them Chaos Ogres.
This response doesn't make any sense.
GW is essentially telling you these armies are the equivalent of 40k legends. They'll have rules to start with, but no ongoing balance and therefore shouldn't be used at tournaments. No one is telling you not to collect or play them, "in your own sandbox" or to "make your own storylines" in non-competitive play, just what you should expect from the faction compared with the "supported" ones if you decide to do so.
Imagine my reaction. I have DE, Scaven, Ogres, VC and start printing Chaos Dwarfs.... Well i still have 8th ed and WAP rules, but really sadly that i need START COLLECTING NEW ARMY to play with new players... To be fair i can play in store noone gonna reinforce that tournament rule. I hope they gonna do at least fun rules for them and not AOS rules at start.
Nothing is stopping you from playing with your models in Old World.
These factions are put into the “legends” category because they don’t want them in tournament play.
Are you planning to play in a tournament?? No?? Then go wild!
Play with your Scavens!
The reason for this post is just for people who play in the competitive scene.
We can hope.
True
@@LinkiePup well yeah you right im overreacted but i hope this rules gonna be fun
GW loves to give the bird to their fans. literally half the coolest factions are not supported? unbelievable! I haven't given GW my money since they sinked fantasy battles and shat out AoS.
I personally have retconned AOS. I can understand if people want a simpler game but I can't stand the story. Hopefully they change their minds, but I feel you.
I must admit, im relieved at this. I dont want to get into this game, but due to the daemons having their rules online for free, i can humor my mate who wants to play it if he wants to
Good point! Many people already have this army anyways, so why not!
An army that is usable in 3 separate systems!
I think they are just saying this edition is set in stone. As to not produce the most badass looling miniatures out of all of the old world.
Imagine how much they could charge for a chaos dwarf demon train. Or the Queen Bess for the Vampire Coast. And people would buy it just cause it looks awesome. And maybe even the rest of the army so they could use it in game.
This feels like a "old world reboot" where the only relevent factions are in the europe and north africa faction equivelants. So west of the worlds edge mountains and east of the new world continent. And no further south than kemri.
Which begs the questions where araby is. I kind of wished they would be a faction again. Flying carpets, djin, and dudes with massive falshions fighting imperial greatswords. All sounds cool to me.
I agree, and at the end of the day, every faction interacts with the Old World to some degree or another. And how Tomb Kings makes the roster when Vampire Counts doesn't is a mystery to me.
This killed Warhammer the Old World for me.
This is so stupid.
They should have included everything, why not
What a way to keep WAP alive
Good point, but I think he did get a cease and desist.
@@TooMiniModels Oh ya they def aren't trying to keep WAP alive by choice
I only own 3 Warhammer factions.
Vampire Counts
Dark Elves
Daemons
So although I'm excited for The Old World, I'm not happy about having ZERO of my armies legal.
Why couldn't they just make every army legal? Yes, they're not based in the Old World, but, there is a thing called TRAVEL, which can enable these factions to get to and fight in the Old World..... 🤦♂️
I agree every faction interacts with the old world eventually and again, this is only for official GW tournaments, not for any local store.
why care about tournaments
I agree it sucks but we need to deal in realities. I think the Pdf faction lists are very lightly or untested completely. Just ideas on pape,r just for fun lists. Can they really ok lists like that into tournaments. Do you what to play Empire and Get Slaughtered by a Lizardman that has untested rules that are super broken? I know GW sucks at testing but I feel people are asking Gw to allow lists that have 0 testing. This is a tiny side project to them, with limited people involved and a low budget. They are cutting corners where they can. testing if this can come back. You Just need to pick one of the 9 core. there is plenty of choice, then a few years down the road you can pull the old one out when it gets support.
Very good points! I am happy they are giving free rules.
I'm actually optimistic about the balancing of those lists, given that this is made by the specialist games design studio, not the constantly crunching main team. But either way, it is perfectly understandable that GW don't want to risk having some faction(s) heavily represented and/or winning in official tournaments that technically aren't supported. And yes, I fully expect an expansion to the game after five years akin to Necromunda Underhive heading out into the Ash Wastes. It's actually good that GW don't want to overpromise. People really need to chill.
Lol, you expect the regular rules to be balanced more than the PDF? You must be new to this...
the 'legality' of it does not matter, gaming groups and tournaments can play whatever they want as long as its not an official GW event (and honestly why would you).
What sucks is that i remember the quality of free pdf rules, they where really bad. They where shit out and then never got any attention.
It wouldnt even be that hard to make good supported ones, they have 8 great editions of fantasy that laid all the groundwork.
But then again, im expectig pro consumer desicions and general goodwill towards the fanbase from a company that has been to corporate for that since forever, so why bother.
I don't think you remember the days when the official Ork codex suggested making your own converted characters and scenery out of excess plastic kits rather than buying a $40 model. But I agree, they are way more corporate now, way more.
@@TooMiniModels No i don't, but that sounds kind of hilarious to be fair 😅 I was thinking more along the line of the 'get by' all in one army books and codices at the begining of previous editions, and whatever shitshow the first year if AoS was. I may be catastrophising there, many battle reports on here are already using the rules. But if they dont get supported, they are gonna age fast, given the current GW release cadance.
Because GW cannot make some people happy without offending others.
For example, I still have a lot of old fantasy orcs (mostly archers) on round bases. I bought this for Age of Sigmar only, I was never interested in fantasy. Then the GW destroyed the Greenskinz faction. Perhaps they will soon destroy also the Bonesplitters faction, perhaps the Beasts of Chaos, Gloomsite Gitz and Spiderfang.. even Chaos Warriors - and all for the sake of earning an extra cent on old world!
Same for 40k: I bought several FW resin models just to make my custom SM Chapter more interesting.
And now GW says: repaint it into one of the 18 legions to play Horse Heresy!
Thanks, but no.
Get some movement trays and bring your round bases to TOW
That's a false dichotomy....try harder
"Some model ranges won't be supported..."
I can understand not wanting to provide ongoing support for factions that aren't currently getting any models.
"...including Daemons, Skaven and Lizardmen."
You what mate?
I just meant committing to making new kits for 16 different fractions for a game that they don't know will sell is in line with their current mo. Not saying that I like it, I wish they would support all the ranges, they are all pretty much complete anyways, except for Chaos Dwarfs. Trust me, I really am not a fan of AOS, I hate what it represents, a total disregard for the fans so they can better appeal to a "new demographic". As if any GW game could ever be considered a "beer and pretzels game", checkers and darts has already filled that role. I can't think about it too much or else I get a tad frustrated. I am a huge Old World fan, just trying to stay a bit positive I guess, hope that explains it.
@@TooMiniModels Don't worry, I understand your point of view, it's Games Workshop that I'm commenting on. The fact that they have Skaven, Daemons and Lizardmen right there as active AoS armies, but won't offer rules for them in Fantasy, is stupid.
I think it comes down to product development, too many armies for one setting, 40k has half the armies, you just change the color for all the chapters and add o wolf cloak here or a fire thing there. While in Fantasy you had way too many armies, it is a business after all. I prefer fewer armies and a healthy GW than more armies and a bankrupt one.
That would make no sense, they have models that they already sell....
@irgilligan old models, I think ? You also need to think of production cycles
@@DonTeridon That still makes no relevant sense to any business....
@irgilligan it is easy to say this doesn't make sense , please explain why, if they feel the player base is not big enough to justofy spliting it into factions , that all need their own , new plaatic kits , maintenance storywriting , competition rule balancing...4 factions are easier to maintain and keep at high standart , than 12...have you worked with modular plastics ? Cause I have worked at intralox , we made conveyor belts out of plastic ,day in and day out
@@DonTeridon Try to slow down and construct coherent sentences. Several of the legacy factions have existing model kits already on the shelf, just with an AoS logo on them. Also, 40K has nearly double the armies.
I'm baffled by people's reaction. What did you expect "You'll only get a free PDF." to mean?
And nobody is stopping you from using these in your own narratives and indie tournaments.
I think its the "no tournaments" that is frustrating people.
@@TooMiniModels It is completely normal though. Private tournament like LVO, ITC, WTC do not allow pdf/legacy armies, they never have. Its basically GW announcing we have not tested these at all.
That makes sense, I am not active in the tournament scene! Thanks for letting me know. @@GilthosDrakoniss
No rule updates, no new models, I'm baffled anyone is defending this.
This is the killer for the OW.
I will not touch it.
i couldnt care less about what GW wants at their tournaments, but it means pretty surely that the rules for those armies are gonna suck. And i dont mean weak, i mean underdeveloped, unflavourful, untested, and they are gonna stay that way.