Dark Elves - The Old World Faction Guide - Warhammer Fantasy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2024
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00:00 Intro
02:22 Nobles& Items
03:32 Sorceresses
45:13 Beatmasters, Death Hags, Assassins & Mounts
01:06:03 Infantry
01:29:36 Cavalry
01:52:56 Monsters and the Bolt Thrower - เกม
Thanks so much for this helpful resource! 😊 I'm about to start collecting my first ever Warhammer Fantasy army, and it will be dark elves. 🥰
Just discovered your channel and wanted to say these long form reviews are great! Some many other reviews barely go deeper than reading unit stats so it's refreshing to see more discussion.
I think all cavalry armies in DE may be possible. You could have a really responsive block of 2x10 Dark Riders (because they're core and no spearman tax!) with bows harassing things to death until they can safely charge. Being m9 and skirmish, they should be able to avoid just about whatever they want to all game. The cold one knights can sit in a long line and just wait on an opportune charge joined by a couple characters. Couple horse chariots for extra str 6 ap3 punch at range. It's like wood elves but less shameful.
Also, for the Scourgerunners, I don't think that the character uses the harpoon as it specifically states a crewman uses it.
I'm afraid the doomfire warlock champion can't take the tome of furion to give the unit a 2nd spell. Only wizards can take arcane items and the Doomfire warlock champion is not a wizard. The unit just has a bound spell. Same for the focus familiar.
I shall inform Phil immediately! Thanks for the tip!
@@BearfootMiniatures You're welcome. Thanks for the content! I really enjoy these deep dives.
Nooooo …. I was thinking focus familiars all the way. To poke around corners and/or keep out of dispel range
Imo the DE are an S tier faction.
The Black Dragon, Black Guard, Kharybdyss and the Cry of War on a Death Hag are just insane.
Agreed I think there mate: a few of the combinations that can be done within the list and just general unit usage are so so good!
These are great love the crunch and banter. Do our chaos warriors next!!!
Shades can have great weapons cause there was a unit in 6th ed of dark elf mercenaries, called mengil manflayers that were basicaly mercenary shades
And it's awesome to be able to play them at ToW, the models are really beautiful.
Sisters of slaughter actually always get the fights in extra ranks. They don't have the restriction like spears and halberds. Also fun trick is to have a hag with witchbrew and cast the dark spell to give the entire squad frenzy and hatred all. So your getting 3 attacks each sister in 2 ranks permanently
Ah Id been conflating the Fight in extra rank and spear rules, so much better than I was I thinking while going through!
I don't know if its been mentioned. But popping an assassin out in frount of a unit of skirmisher shades at the beginning of the turn reduces the charge range. Great if they are ambushing. Ambush rule only applys during deployment. Used to do it in 6th ed.
Thanks for the guide! Keep them coming! I'd love to see some sample army lists with a brief breakdown of how the choices work together to win games.
Glad you enjoyed it! Ill see what I can get the next guides together to get some examples added: Phil used a sort with black staff with illusion (to get column of crystal)
Great aswell Cold ones with a BSB in, war banner on the banner and standard of slaughter on the BSB to GREAT effect (basically 4 static combat res from close, banner, BSB and war banner: and on the charge 5-7, meaning you have to unit wipe to beat them before they attack
Another great faction guide, thank you very much for the effort you guys put into these videos. Can't wait for you guys to do my two factions - Tomb Kings and High Elves.
Thanks mate!
Got the TK one sorted just waiting for the chosen 'expert' to come back off holiday
I love that massive Brett one. Just go through it all. Love long, lvoe detailed.. I listen as I play some game or paint so, suits me!
Bearfoots faction discussions are actually really top notch, listened to many of their Heresy ones as well.
@@Perkustin I probably should do too!
Thanks guys: pails got 2 weeks off from next week so hopefully we can have a bunch of these long form discussions!
@@BearfootMiniatures Cool! And some games? ;)
Hmm. Seems like the Repeater crossbows got a nerf. It's armor bane instead of armor piercing, so you need a 6 to hit to get the armor piercing.
Love this content as well as your BR's. Great chanel! Shall we see Phil's DE take on Gebe?
we shall! Its on the next editting block so will be out Sat 9th!
shades look nuts - scouts with good shooting and great weapons are a potentially serious threat to your back line
I really enjoyed the vid. I generally agree with the pointers (other than Dark Riders - they are amazing!)
@12:25 - The whip of agony is a tricky item, probably best combined with a beastmaster on manticore. Because of the strike first, these attacks will land before the manticore attacks. This will help the manticore take down tougher opponents like enemy chariots and smaller monsters. This makes the unit more flexible in its use. I doubt this will see tournament play... but I'm certainly going to give this a go! :D
@30:00 - Guiding Eye is nice in a RXB bunker, but keep in mind the shade champion can take it by himself. Especially worth keeping in mind if you're going to take a big unit.
@48:00 - The Goad Beast doesn't say you can't stack it, thus you may use multiples of it. 2 Beastmasters could beef up a single monster for an amazing combat round :D
@1:24:07 - I would argue that the Sisters of Slaughter can always get a support attack, even on the charge. No rule claims otherwise - it's just that most weapons that offer the extra rank mention explicitly they can not give a supporting attack on the charge. But this is not in the rules for these weapons for the sisters. This is also in line with whips (basic equipment)
Dark Riders can also be used as a bunker for a caster on dark steed.
@1:39:00 - Warlocks are not Wizards and may not use arcane items. It's why their spell is cast as a bound spell. Tome of Furion is not allowed :(
@1:45:00 - I don't think the beastmasters can shoot the harpoon of the chariot. The rules state that one of the crew can fire it. So you're down to BS4, with a -2 to hit if you move because of ponderous. I mean... I would love for it to be otherwise!
@2:00:00 - A few details here. This version of the Reaper Bolt Thrower has uses the rule "Multiple shots 3+D3" and thus has a -1 to hit when firing multiple bolts. Most regrettably!
On the other hand, they have the skirmisher rule, so ballistic based shooting gets a -1 to hit.
Did we say dark riders were bad?! I think theyre good (I just love fast cav in general) but maybe no longer mass
Agree on all the above tbh mate, good responses! Id been conflating the Fight in extra rank and spear rules, so much better than I was I thinking while going through!
@@BearfootMiniatures but the dark riders deserve even more awe!! They can practically bog down any enemy and control the field... completely!
Just use them in pairs: one blocks the enemy, one behind it forms a column. When charged, the first one flees over the column and ends up out of charge range. If redirected, the 2nd one will flee over the 1st one and be safe.
We have some terrific guides from older editions that can be used still. Is there an e-mail or place I can send the info to?
They are so good that friendships can be lost over this.
You can block movement almost completely.
Because they can skirmish, with 9 movement and swiftstride, you could take a blob of 10 of these and form a single battleline on the charge (skirmish rule) to get all attacks in. Throw in a wizard and you have a relatively cheap nightmare for the enemy to deal with.
Their only weakness is shooting, but they gor -1 to hit!
Mate 100%: either hit me up on FB or my emails bearfootminiatures@hotmail.com
Ive been annoying people with fast cav through playing 6th with an all fast cav chaos army but any new info is appreciated
The footprints of units I think must be borne in mind much more now as the amount of table space is relatively smaller (devaluing the fast cav slightly) along with not being able to repeatedly Reform and therefore just move anywhere in their movement range, having to wheel is such a pain for fast cav now haha
I think Beastmasters can fire the harpoon - the harpoon isn’t listed as part of the Crew’s equipment or gear, its described separately. Does need an FAQ - same Q applies to High Elf Seaguard.
Fantastic video, crunchy analysis I haven’t found anywhere else on the webs. Please keep this up!
@@trevorcraig3992I would love a FAQ on that for clarity, since both interpretations make sense, but the rules say explicitly it's the Crew shooting it. If we could load a character in a warmachine, then I'd be more inclined to assume it works for these chariots as well.
But seeing how everything is toned down a bit (except dragons), and how the rules explain that the chariot is used as a mount, and no equipment is shared between mount and character (unless explicitly mentioned), I would argue that it can not be the beastmaster shooting it.
I'm not sure if I missed something, but where does it say the Sisters of Slaughter only fight in an extra rank when they are charged?
It was me that missed it mate: I was conflating the fight in extra rank with the spear rule (which obv cant fight in 2 ranks if charging) but obv this isnt that!
I dont beleive you are correct about the doomfire warlocks being able to take arcane equipment. It does not say anywhere that they are wizards and possessing a bound spell does not make you a wizard
What do you think about this combo?
Khainite Assassin [138 pts]
- Additional hand weapon
- On foot
- Dark Venom
- The Guiding Eye
- Pearl Of Infinite Bleakness
Supreme Sorceress [275 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Level 4 Wizard
- On foot
- Pendant Of Khaeleth
- Black Staff
- Daemonology+Cursing Word
27 Repeater Crossbowmen [379 pts]
- Hand weapons and repeater crossbows
- Light armour
- Shields
- Lordling (champion)
- Standard bearer [Razor Standard]
- Musician
The unit can release 18 shots with armourbane.
The Sorceress can support the shooting and close combat abillity with Daemonic Vessel, Daemonic Vigour, Gathering Darkness and Cursing Word.
The assassin is also offering support with his magic items by making the unit immune to Psychology and helping to reroll hits in a stand&shoot situation boosting the combat res. He also offers additional punchyness in close combat.
As an enemy you dont want the unit to shoot you, but you also dont want to attack because of the shooting and the potenzial debuffs in combat. This unit combined with some countercharging units is even more nasty.
I think it's a fairly nasty combination really, but may be over investing into the unit for my personal tastes
If it can adequately be supported from incoming mega units I can see it wrecking the mid armour/tough units
I tend to be quite cautious of big investments (though people obv make them work all the time!)
Is it possible to use a focus familiar to cast spell originiating from outside an enemy wizards dispel range? Or no because the wizard casting the spell is still in range even if the range of the spell is different?
I think its based on where the wizard is as you dispel the wizard not any part of the cast/spell, but its something that needs an FAQ tbh as its wierd (like can bound spell remains in play be dispelled as the model casting it says isnt a wizard and you can only dispel against the wizard when doing RiP)
Sorry for the unhelpful answer!
hope you guys do this for warriors of chaos, would love to hear your thoughts
Im in this sort of limbo with the video: as its my main/favourite army I sort of want to do it straight away but also want to do it justice
killing blow only works in combat sadly. so no killing blow bows :(
Gutted! good spot, before Phil tries to killing blow my characters one by one haha
I think the black dragon egg is interesting on a flying wizard, you can use either effect, if forced in combat the t6 or the breath which is so, so strong, ignore the ws debuff.. its a str 4 template that ignores armour.. that's brutal in this edition.
Scourge runner chariots have a unit size max of 3, but as many beastmaster lords on scourge runners as you like can join the unit.. 3 and a beastmaster is going to really upset some people.. that's 4d6 impact hits as well.. lol
I'm not sold on the the sword of ruin, 4 attacks 3s and then 4s or 5s, that's not going to do anything against a serious challenge opponent. Far better to take a far more generic lord.
Illusion build sorceress doesn't do it for me, my 3 armies are Dark Elves, Vampire and Greenskins, both the latter do that build better.. doppleganger 1 hit wonder and a Vampire with a ogre or even a giant blade or headsmans axe are far far better and you want a vampire in combat, you have a necro for dispelling. Commiting a level 4 to that is nuts, especially when you have access to Daemonology and the power staff, so, so good.. The focus familar has some real sneaky usage, dropping vortexs with it, that must be dispelled from the caster.. so you are out of range of dispels.. brutal.
There are downsides to immune to psychology, you cannot flee as a charge reaction being the big one, for elves that can be important and is very much worth paying attention too.
"In addition, a model can only purchase one magic item from each category." (P.337)
So a Level 4 sorceress cannot take a Black Staff and a Lore Familiar 😢 . Which one would you rather equip?
Tbh that black staff is incredibly good so that (Phil used it vs me this weekend, filmed so it'll be on the channel) and it was horrifying
The black guard champion can take 50pts of magic items enabling the dragon egg or a blood armor build
The cold one knights are so close to being great cav imo, but they have no countercharge, which hurts them enormously against other cav which is faster :(
The beastmaster cant goad the hydra, because its a behemoth, unless Im missing something? :)
Also a funny one, but definitely unintended, you can put your master (hero) into your unit of doomfire warlocks and he counts as a champion for purposes of casting due to wording and naming :D
Cold one cav may have that downside but are top tier I think (played a couple vs them this weekend), just need to be a bit careful I suppose as theyre not too expensive so thats their failing
Ooh maybe (maybe....not...) unintended but I suppose he could be the leader of the group I suppose!
@@BearfootMiniatures Agreed, I havent had the chance to try them in practice, but my unit just arrived in post, so that makes me excited to hear they perform well :) Thanks for the great vids by the way!
yes cold one cav is bad and horrible, atupidity makes them USELESS, they have a 20% chance to dont do nothing each turn.
also dont have countercharge and have only one attack when other similar cavs have two attacks,so cost the same than similar cavs for worse damage, same tankiness(t4 save2 vs ward5 of bretonian), dont have countercharge.......only this makes cold ones worse tha every similar cav,but now add stupidity and makes cold one umplayables
@@toro132 Whilst all the mobility aspects are crippling, it comes down to whether you can play them kind of passively with just a 5-man hidden somewhere behind a corner waiting to charge a flank and relieve the anvil? Because the anvil in dark elves cant hold that long by itself, unless youre taking like 50 witch elves, which are not great anyway because the cauldron can be dispelled. But the cold one chariot seems to do the same job for less points and less footprint, it is starting to look like to me. Thinking of offensive use, if enemy dont have cav who would charge you first, is in my opinion to bully enemy core units who dont have the stats to go through their T4 2+, where they can make their points back over time with S4 attacks. Also thinking about trying like a 12-strong unit and trying to buff it or hex whatever they are gonna fight via focus familiar, but thats probably just dreams.
@@wochtulka sure and then you gonna have around 500 points esch turn that have a 20% chance to be useless and do nothing due to stupidity. if cold ones hadnt this rule then theh would be worse than every other heavy cav but playables,but due to stupidity they are useless
15 shades will never be able to see anything for many models due to the LOS rules. 3 units of 5 would be better.
ye in most situations your right: something to be said for big sturdy units though (panic tests and such, and being able to match a big rank/flank to maximise attacks
Which do you think is better sword of ruin or ogre Blade?
I suppose it depends on target/what your facing mostly I think, but personally I’d go with the ogre blade at the moment:
The sword of ruin with a Nobles S4 will be wounding characters on chariot or dragon etc on 6s and even the base T5 characters on 5s and I seem to encounter these a lot and tend to build my characters to bash other peoples characters and this is where the +2 Str of the ogre blade (and multiple wounds) will really help I think along with it having the ap-2
Prepare for some horrible math hammer: with 4 attacks and a ws7 getting only 2-3 hits (depending on opponents ws6 or 7) then when you hit toughness if they’re 4 happy days you’ve done likely the same number of wounds whereas ruin that’s cut by half still at this step
An enemy lord with a 5+/5++/5+++ still has a 30% chance of being wounded but then the wound multiplies by d3 averaging 2 so it’s the same vs a t4 character
Against toughness 5+ because the sword of ruin is having a much harder time wounding the ogre blade becomes more favourable for just decapitating opposing characters/monsters/monstrous infantry
The sword of ruin will be great if you want a blender lord of a character (who’s less likely to be thrown into a challenge) as skipping the saves step entirely is just an awesome effect to have when units are getting similar armour saves to characters
Thanks a lot
😊
Glad you enjoyed it mate!
Sorceresses being 25% of the video made me sit my ass down and listen
Haha theyre just so good in the DE list, especially with the 3d6 casting item!
Trying to build my beastmaster on manticore, currently thinking, headsmans axe, shield, and blood armor and sea dragon Cloak.
But the shield of grond is also tempting, need to do the maths on paper I guess and see how often it's v helpful.
I guess it'd be quite helpful since he's only T4 on the manticore
Dark Elves got really strong magic. Turn one. Focus familiar + Black Horror to cast and stay out of dispel range. 5'' template, STR test or lose a wound (no save of any kind). Awesome against heavy cavalry and big infantry blocks.
ooof: that 3d6 and pick the 2 highest to cast awell is so so good to be reliable and high casting value
@@BearfootMiniatures dude seriously do the maths and then you gonna see how the staff is useless and you are paying points for nerf your mage.
its a noobs traps for those that dont know maths,increase your casting chance a 16% but increase your misscast a 300%. so you are paying points for do worse your mage
@@toro132 The TOTAL chance of getting two 1s on 3d6 is 7%. That is perfectly acceptable for the higher casting rolls.
@@CustodialNinja no, it isnt acceptable,a lvl 4 mage doing 4 spell each turn gonna have around 28% chance each turn to get a misscast. the item increase your misscast of 2% to 7% to me pay points to get a huge increase in the misscast isnt worth it. when high elfs can reroll one spell each turn doing them so much better and free
@@toro132 You seem to have a habit of focusing solely on the downsides of things. The staff here significantly improves your average casting roll, meaning you not only succeed more often, you are dispelled significantly less. And yes, high elves get a cool thing dark elves don't get - so what? They're not the same army, they're going to have different abilities.
Give us all the things on ALL the things :)
Haha as fast as I can record and release I will! theres a TOW game on prerelease now and 3 more being filmed this week!
The Manticore has HEAVY armour! dosnt that add to the riders armour? so fullplate and this = 2+ save with a greatsword or halberd
No. You take the mounts save or the characters save whichever is higher. People confuse this a lot. You can't increase the monsters save.
As poxous says, just sort of adds to the armour of wizards essentially
Dark elfs are a joke how underpower they are.
Its obviously a copy and paste of high elfs rules but nerfed.
Same rules but darks only reroling one time per game and not each turn.
High elfs have the barding while we dont have anithing and murderous is the single worst rule on every army and never used.
-We dont have honours etc.
So we have same copied rules,but nerfed and less while we cost the same or more
-also we dont have any detachment unit,again a big nerf vs cores.
-the dragon have less acuracy than high elfs and -1 stomp also worse save(dont have regen5) doing it worse than high elfs but same points(almost)
-our items are useless,the shield sound good,but worse than the generic item of +1save and -1 to hit.
Also the scepter is a noobs trap,increase your casting chance a 15% while increase your misscast a 300% . NEVER buy it because you are doing your mage worse.
While high elfs get the single best item of the game spammeable and undercosted of regen5
-the beastmaster cant shoot the scourgerunner chariot weapon because it says ONLY the beastmaster crew can do it and that is the name of the two elfs and it isnt the scourgerunner charriot crew. So the hero cant shoot it.
Doing the scourgerunner charriot useless and a worse version and expensiver than the bolt throwe. NOBODY gonna use the charriot because is useless and a waste of points.
-unit......again copy and pasted high elfs but worse everything.
-first stupidity makes 100% useless the units,you dont have idea about maths if you say that you dont mind. Its a 20% chance of have your unit USELESS and dont do nothing.
Units withs stupidity are useless and a waste of points.its the single worst rule in entire tow and kill the units with it.
Cold one ryders are useless due to stupidity and even if you ignore it they are worse than every single heavy cavalry because they have only ONE attack the ryder and not TWO as every other cavalry as graio knigth,vampires or high elfs.
- black guards are same stats than phoenys guard but without ward6 and some others worse stats
-executioners are swordmasters but expensiver for 1 extra s and a PILE of downsides as worse rend,worse acuracy,worse initiative,dont have ward and a big etc. So worse in everything and expensiver.
-cavalry is worse than high elfs as i said due to stupidity
-chariot is again worse than white lion charriot
-our cores are worse because they havent detachment
-our monsters are worse than phoenyx
-our shooting is worse than sisters of avelorn
-doomfirr warlocks are as sister of thorn BUT sisters can shoot even marching and do poison shots at shooting. Again dark elf is a copy and paste but worse.
And a huge etc
Dark elfs feels so weak and underpower if we xonpare to cores armys ......highs elfs are a 9/10 while dark elfs are a 4/10 is a joke how gw have done weaks to dark elfs only because they are a legacy and want kill the army