Fantano is one of the easiest targets to take shots at in the music journalism industry ever since the Fader bullshit. It’s honestly ludicrous how often he has to bat away some sort of disingenuous defamation. And the worst part is, he’s the target bc he’s the one figure you can point the finger at. For big corporations (e.g. the Fader, p4k, etc) you can’t single out someone to bear blame and so they largely go unscathed despite some ludicrously unethical antics (the hitpiece on Fantano). It really bothers me that no one is really addressing the corrosive power big corporations have over the reception of art (id argue a similar vein runs through the world of film/tv critique) and their audiences’ willingness to target and dismiss individuals like Fantano who are bold enough to give an honest and well articulated opinion rather than capitulate to pressures to review an album/song/project positively because it’s what their audience wants to hear. Big ups to Anthony, been a fan for a few years now and the dude never disappoints in terms of the quality of his reviews and the level-headedness he brings to contentious discussions.
Yeah, honestly its sick. And when individuals call him out they feign victimhood when us fans or people in general call them out for being extremely unreasonable with their bias.
@@fucksleepordie people still haven't let Damn or MBDTF go for 7 and 6s respectfully, so add in the woke quotient and that's unsurprising to me. Genuinely Melon is one of the most genuine open minded people this just seems so counterproductive. He even handled this really gracefully
boxkitty a test they run in stats to measure the significance of your results based on the parameters you set. In this instance it lets us known if there is a significant statistical difference between the men and women’s result (6.1 and 6.5) Edit: there not their :/
@@thecartoonist02 This is the equivalent of . " Man people talk a lot when they have a lot of stuff to say" " Even when they don't have much to say they talk just as much " " How does fantano has nothing to say though?"
@@0xheraldry "Confirmation bias" is used to describe a method of arriving at or upholding a conclusion. A question is quite literally the opposite of a conclusion. Learning a phrase isn't enough, you also need to learn how to apply it. In this case it would make sense if I'd said outright "data analysis isn't stupid" rather than framing it as a question and therefore allowing the other party to clarify. Protip for next time.
Well I mean I don’t think he likes chill beats like let’s say half the tracks on hot pink by Doja cat. Or So high by Ski mask the slump god. I think he finds them boring because he likes rock and RnB especially that chill sound is different to a metal head.
Very long comment, beware Hey Anthony, I know you're probably not gonna see this but you never fail to impress me with your ability to handle criticism and to address issues that others might simply ignore. I feel like a lot of other people presented with this kind of question would get defensive and make a whole video about how "I'm not sexist, look at all this stuff I've said in the past, you guys are just haters". I was half expecting this video to go down that kind of route and for you to criticise the person who made the spreadsheet, because that's what I'm used to on this website. But instead, you read over the whole thing calmly, never insulting the original poster, never skipping over any information - you even welcomed further criticism of your videos at the end by describing how people might further analyse your reviews and specifically your reviews of female artists. I hardly ever see such openness to criticism and scrutiny on youtube and I think it should be applauded. I know it's not a huge deal, I just wanted to express my appreciation since you're one of my favourite creators and I don't comment often. Thank you to anyone who read this far :)
It would be so cool to actually discuss the topics covered in the videos. Perhaps there could be a short hand for threads that actually want to start up a proper discussion? Or perhaps people who want to say something substantial could be making more noise?
agreed. i was a little disheartened to just see a bunch of memes but it’s alright, that’s the fanbase for ya. i thought it was really cool that anthony engaged in this conversation and looked at the data. i know not everyone is interested in that but some people seemed to take it extremely personally as if anthony was being seriously called out as a misogynist when that’s not even what the data showed. they weren’t trying to make him seem like a bad guy they just wanted to make a spreadsheet and im here for it. if anything, we learned anthony doesn’t review nearly as many women as men and that’s interesting. that could be for so many reasons like how popular women get in the industry… idk i thought it was cool 🤷♀️
@@weaintfriendsweaintfriends7346 this can also occour by only picking albums because of the music. I recently bought over 10 jazz albums. All artists are black. Race bias confirmed lmao
I think its really cool how you honestly take a look at criticisms like this and do it not in a defensive way, but a constructive way. Thanks for producing great content as always
“From the streets did she emerge and to the streets she will return and I say unto you, she is for the streets so be not weary for she will return from whence she came”
Anthony, you really don't have to recreate the gender pay gap in your scores. Edit: This is a joke. Stop replying to this comment about the wage gap. Jesus christ.
the wage gap is simply the average earnings of men and women working full time. it has nothing to do with job positions, hours worked, or different jobs. It has nothing to do with discrimination
i think his personality and style really speaks a lot to people that are very eager for information and categorization, so i'm not that surprised (i'm like that actually)
Another thing about the difference in averages: in the other statistical analysis of Fantano's work, it was fairly conclusively shown that genres he reviews less of have a higher average score. Part of what he chalked this up to was the fact that the less popular genres that he reviews generally include albums that he specifically sought out, meaning that niche genres were more likely to have higher scores just because of the volume of reviews in other genres. There could be similar effect taking place here between the averages for men and women, since the fanbase is largely male and asking for reviews of male artists' work. Maybe a significant number of the artists Fantano seeks out are women, which wouldn't necessarily indicate bias, just a desire to include more artistic variety. Or he a simp
I'd be curious to see how the stats are affected when you change bands entirely made up by one gender instead of marking them as N/A (e.g. Death Grips, Idles, KIDS SEE GHOST, Sleater Kinney) and leaving the N/A section for mixed gender bands
I'd argue that it depends on the gender of the singer as their voice is the most probable indicator of their gender (men being lower register and women being higher register as well as different unique qualities between male and female singing although that is if we are talking about a binary) as opposed to an instrument which can't necessarily be played in an inherently gendered way (discounting tendencies such as men more likely to be playing lead guitar in a mixed gendered band for example)
LoL Dude... With 686 against 167 he SOMEHOW managed to review women slightly better. Most of the discrapancy in the numbers being by the music genres biased itself. Adding the "one gender band" knowing the difference is EVEN BIGGER its a desperate attempt to make the data says what you think it might say. What you think its gon' be different? The couple of 9s and 10s? The numbers gon' be bigger and the avarage rate won't just miracle rise. Thats math (BREAKING BAD COLLAGE) These stats aren't perfect but say a lot
With this amount sampled it would barely make a difference, it would be in the rates of .1 increase in the best case when only the 9's and the 10's are taken into account. If we also took into account the myriad of all-male bands with subpar scores it would probably go down and not up in score.
Anthony you didn't have to respond to this (the twitter thread is from a user with only 11 followers) but you did, and raised some really interesting points. This was an articulate, mature response to a complex issue from a biased industry with a number of problems. Unsubscribed.
Let's also keep in mind that (I personally notice) there are wayyyy less female artists in the mainstream that there are male artists, so you having way less reviews of female artists could be also reflected by that since most of the stuff you reviews is stuff that is popular/requested a lot.
@@ilovecody7514 not really? He talked about how most of what he gets request for is hiphop oriented stuff and that specific genre dosent have a lot of female artists but I feel like we don't have much female artists in general
@@snowprint He alluded to that with that same point basically. People recommend what is hot in the mainstream which hip hop and etc. Not that hard to put two and two together with common sense.
I don't think that's true in the mainstream. In top 40 radio I think there's actually a pretty good balance of artists. However, in certain genres like hip hop and metal that Fantano is interested in I think it's heavily slanted toward male artists.
As a woman who has very regularly watched Fabtano and TND for years and years, I had always thought he held a big bias in favor OF women. Just my personal perspective.
yeah, but leaving the camera on for 11min after he walked out of the room was also a pretty strange choice. also, what where those strange noises coming out of the other room?
I don’t think the problem is that Anthony is sexist, the problem is that the music industry is sexist. For those reasons, there are way more male artists/producers than female artists and that impacts the number of each that Anthony reviews
I really like how, even though the accusation is pretty unfounded, there are still thoughts put into it in regards to the total number of female artists reviewed, as opposed to male ones etc. It's important to always check, if you're really executing on the things you want to do, and believe in, even if it seems obvious at first.
I would say all music-geek culture has a gender bias, and still a racial bias too. The second thing is why many top-whatever lists have questionable choices and placement for most things done by a black artist. The first is why there are weird choices for female artists, and far too many missing entries by included artist but also far too many missing artists to start with. Some of the explanations that can cover SOME of this are rather benign or less direct, but others simply are not. I would say Anthony has a bias too (6.1 vs 6.5 is soft, but still present*), but that is better explained by genre favoritism (favoring music that more male dominated**) vs actually being outright sexist (which he clearly is not). * In terms of genre X having way more men. I mean, yes, that might also be sexism, but I am referring to Anthony, so external sexism is not relevant to that specific point in this context. ** would be interesting to see how he compares to others. What is the spread with other men and woman? More? Less? Food for thought. Maybe Athony is close to the best, or not.
For example - pop music has plenty of female artists, and sometimes, is dominated by them. If you think pop is lesser* or just don't like it (or most of it), then you will, for non-sexist reasons, have some effective sexism in your coverage (covering men more than woman). * is not art, is not deep, cannot have or express the same depth as rock or rap, etc. (all things I strongly disagree with)
@@xBINARYGODxThis comment convinced me to run a little test on RYM. I checked the top dance-pop and/or electropop albums of all time with both male and female vocalists tagged in the descriptors. I found more or less what I expected - though I was surprised to see that Plastic Beach and Thriller were the top albums - the female chart had more variety in artists, and had higher rated/more rated albums generally. In a combined chart, the top 40 only had 10 albums with the male vocalist tag (AFAICT, one was both), and was generally dominated by Michael and the Pet Shop Boys (who together accounted for 5). Despite this - again - the two highest rated albums were by male artists, and the highest from a female artist was CRJ's Emotion - the pet favorite from music nerds generally - which was "only" at a 3.84. Good rating, but only enough for 572 on the "best of all time" chart. What I would take away from this is something I already kind of thought, that women in "music nerd" circles are somewhat pigeonholed into just making "fun music", because the largely male listener base - not really even on purpose - doesn't really relate to music explicitly from the female perspective. But then that pop music is treated as frivolous and boring unless it's made by an artist that's been canonized into the male world. I think a similar thing happens with politics, what with how people don't tend to take women's issues seriously until a man says it, and how it's more difficult for a woman to gain political power without overwhelming support of the current system. Not saying anyone should feel bad about themselves, just saying.
Problem with this is Anthony will give albums a “light to decent 7” or a “decent to strong 7” so I would argue the point values are probably a little bit different
This could just be me projecting my own feelings on things but I feel as if Anthony gets excited when he hears a good female LP and probably doesn't even realize he's going a little out of his way to review a decent amount of them because there is this giant stigma around female artists especially in the pop music genre which has been over looked a lot by the male community. It's nice to promote something with more of a feminine touch from time to time. I know myself when I find a good female artist it's always refreshing to me especially when I subconsciously notice there is an imbalence of what I've been listening to that month. Finding good artists with different races and genders is fantastic. Now keep in mind I said "good" because there's good music and there's bad music and that knows no gender haha.
@@Mit852 I can't tell if you're being sarcastic lmao but if you aren't then you missed a very easy and straight forward observation. Let me explain. In response to that I don't think any one should force themselves to listen to anything they don't genuinely enjoy. I made that pretty clear in my statement. All I'm saying is when I lisen to males lyrically and vocally for so long and a good female artist pop up I might end up having them on play for longer periods of time without even realizing just because of its refreshing sound. Also when I recommend music to others I love when theres different genders to throw at them for that same refreshing reason I described. This isn't about what's between their legs and this isn't about what you indentify as to the public it's about the sonics and topical differences each group may have and how it winds up on a record to my ear. I'm not claiming I go out of my way to do these things and I'm not saying music is a fashion show or something to brag about..it's just an observation on how one might go about subconsciously diversifying their library to keep it refreshing. It goes beyond just genders it can also just be trying new genres as well.
The thing is i think there is a general bias in the music discussion internet world, and i think we all fall a little bit into it, i mean music discussions are generally male-centric. while i do see a shift in the last years to have a more open discussion of female artists (2018 had mitski, and rosalía, 2019 had lana, charli and fka twigs and at least for now in 2020 we have fionna) i think historically women have been relegated or not as openly discussed. recently i have been going on a binge listening to the 'classic' records from the indie scene in the 80s and 90s mostly, and most bands have only male members (wilco, neutral milk hotel, radiohead, pavement, r.e.m., nirvana, hüsker dü, the smiths, the cure and the list goes forever), and don't get me wrong they are amazing but it seems they get far more buzz and discussions than female bands or bands with multiple genders (off the top of my head i can only think of sonic youth, pixies and slowdive and cocteau twins). the other thing i think is happening is there is a multi-gender band, but the whole credit for their success, creativity and influence is attributed only to one man of the group (mbv with kevin shields or talking heads and david byrne). rarely i see solo women on the most influential lists (kate bush and björk are maybe the exception?) and a lot of solo men being discussed (eliott smith, tom waits, phil elverum, etc). honestly idk i may be missing a lot of influential women in the alternatives scenes being discussed in music circles, and im honestly sorry for doing so, im just showing what im seeing maybe and if you have any recommendations on bands or solo acts led by women i would greatly appreciate if! as i said before im going in my deep dive of the 80s and 90s (maybe some 70s too) its totally cool to have a conversation about this
I agree; it’s a greater issues within the music industry. There has been slow progress, but the discussion of female musicians and especially band members, often discredits women. I liked reading your very thoughtful comment. I’m glad this is a debate topic, because the issue of gender bias can be so easily ignored by everyone, including women, like you said. I think some good examples of other successful mostly contemporary female artists are: Fever Ray/The Knife, Grimes, Cat Power, Carly Rae Jepsen, Paramore, Sleater-Kinny, riot girl bands, Janelle Monae, Black Dresses, S, Carissa’s Wierd, Weyes Blood, Wolf Alice, Charlotte Gainsbourg...to name a few.
weird that it was the suburban white girl fandom that blew up at anthony the hardest. Not even the kpop fandom went absolutley postal when he gave average+ scores to kpop albums
This was an interesting video, I enjoyed hearing you challenge your own potential or perceived biases! That said, I've never watched a review of yours and thought "he only had that take because _(artist or group)_ is _(identity adjective)_". Your analyses are generally well-researched, comprehensive, and conscious of any bias you might bring to the table; which makes your takes all the more interesting!
My favourite genre is metal, which is primarily male. I however also enjoy artists like La Roux, Amaranthe, Caravan Palace, Lzzy Hale, Madison Beer, In This Moment, etc. I guess my point is that it doesn't really matter to most people what gender someone is, as long as the tunes are good.
I really appreciate you taking this question/topic seriously. Obviously there are some outlandish claims being thrown at you based on score, and that's a massive shame, because I think that as one of the largest music publications out there, there should be room for healthy criticism on issues like bias, but that gets muddied when people boil the issue down to personal attacks. So yeah, it's great to see you holding yourself to account in a general sense. You're clearly striving to make sure you can improve your reviews through thought processes like this. On a related note, I'm definitely someone who felt your Fiona Apple review was pretty basic in terms of its critiques, but that discussion being simplified into "anthony is a sexist" was so frustrating, and tbh I think you drove that discussion a little bit by putting a weird minority on blast and then that became the talking point. It also riled up the shiteposty section of your fanbase even more than usual... BUT that's a whole other thing. We're hear for good, fun, engaging music chat, and memes. x
I totally agree with enjoying people’s music without identifying or relating. For example, I am a gay asian american male but I thoroughly enjoy Formation by Beyoncé which is a song that celebrates black womanhood in america. the song won’t have the same impact on me as it would for the target audience, but i sure love the repetition and the upbeat instrumentals
i think it's because the women who you tend to give negative scores to write from a specific kind of "female perspective" and relating to and understanding that adds to the enjoyment of the album.
Dont let this video distract you from the fact that this man has been sitting in these videos all this time long and has managed to decieve many of us that he was standing.Sittingthony Sitthano
anthony is so level headed and smart. the way he talks in this video is fucking incredible. he doesn't try to defend himself or push opinions, he just speaks objectively on the subject at hand. love you melon.
I guess someone who's a big fan of Kafka... I mean, I don't agree with this dude but I can see how Gregor is a character that a lot of people easily identify with, so I get why you might use his namesake.
It's interesting that a section of those who normally argue that gender isn't binary are happy to switch to a male/female binary when they want to throw around accusations of misogyny.
If I remember correctly, videogamedunkey once said (because he's obviously a wonderful source to quote), "What matters about a critic is the consistency of their voice" or something along those lines. He himself went into how that doesn't make every critic or reviewer good, but when we see things like a similar ballpark for scores for male/female artists or across genres I think that point shines through. There are lots of different kinds of biases someone could have, but I think going as far to claim someone as dedicated to their work as Anthony would have a bias towards anything but the music loses credence almost immediately. No doubt better things you could go after than sexism, not that I'm encouraging it. I'm not real into music and I really only check in on melon for separate videos or reviews that really catch my interest, but I say he's fairly consistent.
He stopped himself from saying “gender bias forever” at the end. Good guy antnee
That shit just made me laugh out loud
John Lennon " I love you well well now and forever"
Melon " I hate youuu well well go die forever"
Lol
Holy shit I thought this was a shitpost comment but he actually stopped himself
andrew nicoll im deaddd😭😭😭😭
Fantano is one of the easiest targets to take shots at in the music journalism industry ever since the Fader bullshit. It’s honestly ludicrous how often he has to bat away some sort of disingenuous defamation. And the worst part is, he’s the target bc he’s the one figure you can point the finger at. For big corporations (e.g. the Fader, p4k, etc) you can’t single out someone to bear blame and so they largely go unscathed despite some ludicrously unethical antics (the hitpiece on Fantano). It really bothers me that no one is really addressing the corrosive power big corporations have over the reception of art (id argue a similar vein runs through the world of film/tv critique) and their audiences’ willingness to target and dismiss individuals like Fantano who are bold enough to give an honest and well articulated opinion rather than capitulate to pressures to review an album/song/project positively because it’s what their audience wants to hear. Big ups to Anthony, been a fan for a few years now and the dude never disappoints in terms of the quality of his reviews and the level-headedness he brings to contentious discussions.
Yeah, honestly its sick. And when individuals call him out they feign victimhood when us fans or people in general call them out for being extremely unreasonable with their bias.
Fader, more like Hater
Superb use of buzz words
Anthony stopped trying to be objective and started shilling pop music around 2014
Cant you link me that fader article, I haven’t seen it. I always love reading bull shit.
Can’t believe he just said “yes” over and over again and called it a video
I love how these comments are still going strong, amazing.
He said the longest yeah boiii ever
Floogua /H/ “Im bias as *FUCK* boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii”
Super Ultra Thanks Mom usually they’re pretty damn annoying to me tbh, but this particular video has some golden ones.
“gender bias ... forever”
- anthony fantano, 2020
Fiona Apple was the tipping point that resulted in this vid lmao
Yup
oh god...
still can't believe how mad people on Twitter were at him for not liking the album as much as they did even tho he gave it a seven. absolutely crazy
@@fucksleepordie people still haven't let Damn or MBDTF go for 7 and 6s respectfully, so add in the woke quotient and that's unsurprising to me. Genuinely Melon is one of the most genuine open minded people this just seems so counterproductive. He even handled this really gracefully
@@fucksleepordie that's pretty much the reaction to every artist he gives a 6/7 to tbh
Your point that “women having suffrage causes me great suffrage” was pretty compelling.
damm, dude I can't stop laughing😂
anthony, singing “girls go to jupiter to get more stupider” for 11 minutes isnt proving your point
this one's good
Black kray ?
Seth Belfort you new?
@Seth Belfort fuck off
sam i believe that is what we in the business call the sarcasm
I agree with everything he said besides calling all women "sandwich machines", that was uncalled for melon.
Come on Anthony. You really didn’t have to give the entirety of women a “Not Good.”
Paul Moore finally someone said it
😂😂😂
Lmaooooooo
This new "women" gender...it's not good.
@@BobDerGute84 boom
6.1 vs 6.5 is likely statistically the same. He should've done a t test.
Normal distribution is a pretty big assumption. Non-parametric is probably a safer bet
Out of interest what is a T Test?
With those base sizes being what they are, it’s not likely that the points gap is statistically significant
boxkitty a test they run in stats to measure the significance of your results based on the parameters you set. In this instance it lets us known if there is a significant statistical difference between the men and women’s result (6.1 and 6.5)
Edit: there not their :/
@Adrian Mungroo it's not even that advanced tbh
Gave Kid Cudi a 0.
Gave Miley Cyrus a 1.
Yup, Anthony hates men confirmed.
If hating on Miley wasn't so tried that thing would've easily gotten a 0. It's so atrocious I can't even describe it
Damn quarantine got people with a lot of time on their hands
Yup... this shit is so stupid
Don't worry stupid people always have time on their hands
@@brandonayong752 how is data analysis stupid
@@thecartoonist02 This is the equivalent of .
" Man people talk a lot when they have a lot of stuff to say"
" Even when they don't have much to say they talk just as much "
" How does fantano has nothing to say though?"
@@0xheraldry "Confirmation bias" is used to describe a method of arriving at or upholding a conclusion. A question is quite literally the opposite of a conclusion. Learning a phrase isn't enough, you also need to learn how to apply it. In this case it would make sense if I'd said outright "data analysis isn't stupid" rather than framing it as a question and therefore allowing the other party to clarify. Protip for next time.
Does melon have a sleepy music bias?
Ask the real questions
fruit don't sleep man... watch yaself mang
Well I mean I don’t think he likes chill beats like let’s say half the tracks on hot pink by Doja cat. Or So high by Ski mask the slump god. I think he finds them boring because he likes rock and RnB especially that chill sound is different to a metal head.
Sleepy music lmao his reaction to reading that is a top 10 favorite fantano moment for sure
Nope. He likes the swans
lmaooo
Fiona Apple stans say yes.
Charli stans say no.
As a stan of both I say yes when it's convenient
@@jaap3520 Sounds legit ngl
Charli doesn’t sing necessarily about the female experience in the way Fiona did. He mostly praised the production on Charli not the lyricism.
@@tf6026 his critique of the fiona apple album was him feeling the production was lacking and felt strong lyricism doesn't make up for weak production
Skj based opinion
In loving memory of Anthony Melontano
288 BCE - 2k20 AD
Cause of death: cancelled on Twitter so hard his stomach ulcer exploded
Saying “Females should practice sweeping floors and cleaning countertops not music” was out of line. Otherwise great video
Very long comment, beware
Hey Anthony, I know you're probably not gonna see this but you never fail to impress me with your ability to handle criticism and to address issues that others might simply ignore. I feel like a lot of other people presented with this kind of question would get defensive and make a whole video about how "I'm not sexist, look at all this stuff I've said in the past, you guys are just haters". I was half expecting this video to go down that kind of route and for you to criticise the person who made the spreadsheet, because that's what I'm used to on this website. But instead, you read over the whole thing calmly, never insulting the original poster, never skipping over any information - you even welcomed further criticism of your videos at the end by describing how people might further analyse your reviews and specifically your reviews of female artists. I hardly ever see such openness to criticism and scrutiny on youtube and I think it should be applauded.
I know it's not a huge deal, I just wanted to express my appreciation since you're one of my favourite creators and I don't comment often. Thank you to anyone who read this far :)
It is 100% a huge deal.
@@jiteshruch glad I'm not just being overdramatic lol
What a fantastic comment, couldnt have put it better myself.
@@shayshayshayshayshayshayshay thank you :')
I agree with Jitesh! This is kind of a big deal honestly, hopefully this sets a precedent
No Anthony, not every woman should have to call you Daddy.
bro i wish this was an actual comment section
Well I wish fantnao wasn’t a misogynist
It would be so cool to actually discuss the topics covered in the videos. Perhaps there could be a short hand for threads that actually want to start up a proper discussion? Or perhaps people who want to say something substantial could be making more noise?
agreed. i was a little disheartened to just see a bunch of memes but it’s alright, that’s the fanbase for ya. i thought it was really cool that anthony engaged in this conversation and looked at the data. i know not everyone is interested in that but some people seemed to take it extremely personally as if anthony was being seriously called out as a misogynist when that’s not even what the data showed. they weren’t trying to make him seem like a bad guy they just wanted to make a spreadsheet and im here for it.
if anything, we learned anthony doesn’t review nearly as many women as men and that’s interesting. that could be for so many reasons like how popular women get in the industry… idk i thought it was cool 🤷♀️
Anthony, you can’t tell “all woman who are watching” to unsubscribe because you want a “superior cult following”
Melon, I respect you not having a gender bias, but having a race bias is not ok
Nice profile pic
Nice profile pic
Does he have a race bias?
@@jakobus977 he literally has a month when he does no reviews of black artists albums
@@weaintfriendsweaintfriends7346 this can also occour by only picking albums because of the music.
I recently bought over 10 jazz albums. All artists are black. Race bias confirmed lmao
I think its really cool how you honestly take a look at criticisms like this and do it not in a defensive way, but a constructive way. Thanks for producing great content as always
Damn, Future must be feeling really jealous rn
“From the streets did she emerge and to the streets she will return and I say unto you, she is for the streets so be not weary for she will return from whence she came”
Bring Back KP, Animated Obviously /CrisisOnFire1977 amen
Anthony, you really don't have to recreate the gender pay gap in your scores.
Edit: This is a joke. Stop replying to this comment about the wage gap. Jesus christ.
Wage gap
the wage gap is simply the average earnings of men and women working full time. it has nothing to do with job positions, hours worked, or different jobs. It has nothing to do with discrimination
𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂺𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂺𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂸 𓂺
Dan yikes, that's a bad take
No it isn’t it’s the truth lmao
i saw the title and immediately started anticipating the comments
Anthony isn't sexist and neither are his fans, and I'll fight any woman that disagrees with me!!!
Never forget, Whoopi Goldberg thinks fighting women is virtuous. Do it for Whoopi.
I'll SLAP A BITCH!!! (ironic joke)
Short answer: no
Long answer: yes, certainly, ABSOLUTELY
Is the long answer supposed to be a Gravity Falls reference?
Bring Back KP, Animated Obviously /CrisisOnFire1977 yep
@@ronstoppable5659 I didn't even notice that, but it is now.
I'm surprised there's people who really gather statistics about fantano reviews
Some people have no life and just look for a way to be trigged. It is sad but that is how it is
You don't choose your special interests, son
i think his personality and style really speaks a lot to people that are very eager for information and categorization, so i'm not that surprised (i'm like that actually)
Another thing about the difference in averages: in the other statistical analysis of Fantano's work, it was fairly conclusively shown that genres he reviews less of have a higher average score. Part of what he chalked this up to was the fact that the less popular genres that he reviews generally include albums that he specifically sought out, meaning that niche genres were more likely to have higher scores just because of the volume of reviews in other genres. There could be similar effect taking place here between the averages for men and women, since the fanbase is largely male and asking for reviews of male artists' work. Maybe a significant number of the artists Fantano seeks out are women, which wouldn't necessarily indicate bias, just a desire to include more artistic variety.
Or he a simp
Anthony, saying you don’t have a gender bias because you stalk both men and women is not helping your case. Disappointed.
anthony, saying ‘get back in the kitchen’ and laughing for 11 minutes isn’t a proper video
To be fair he also said they could play drums on the pots and pans.
It should be
lame
you’re a floating melon today anthony
Idc what you say Anthony, you'll never convince me that Lizzo is asian
He's convinced me
Cal doesn’t have gender bias, Anthony. You should listen to him more.
True, I heard he gives great advice
I'd be curious to see how the stats are affected when you change bands entirely made up by one gender instead of marking them as N/A (e.g. Death Grips, Idles, KIDS SEE GHOST, Sleater Kinney) and leaving the N/A section for mixed gender bands
I'd argue that it depends on the gender of the singer as their voice is the most probable indicator of their gender (men being lower register and women being higher register as well as different unique qualities between male and female singing although that is if we are talking about a binary) as opposed to an instrument which can't necessarily be played in an inherently gendered way (discounting tendencies such as men more likely to be playing lead guitar in a mixed gendered band for example)
LoL Dude... With 686 against 167 he SOMEHOW managed to review women slightly better. Most of the discrapancy in the numbers being by the music genres biased itself. Adding the "one gender band" knowing the difference is EVEN BIGGER its a desperate attempt to make the data says what you think it might say.
What you think its gon' be different? The couple of 9s and 10s? The numbers gon' be bigger and the avarage rate won't just miracle rise. Thats math (BREAKING BAD COLLAGE)
These stats aren't perfect but say a lot
Blink-182
@@luciogregorio5603 I don't really expect it to say anything I'm really just curious tho
With this amount sampled it would barely make a difference, it would be in the rates of .1 increase in the best case when only the 9's and the 10's are taken into account. If we also took into account the myriad of all-male bands with subpar scores it would probably go down and not up in score.
Anthony you didn't have to respond to this (the twitter thread is from a user with only 11 followers) but you did, and raised some really interesting points. This was an articulate, mature response to a complex issue from a biased industry with a number of problems.
Unsubscribed.
Came here for memes. Stayed for the KKK rally bonus clip at the end
Kinda weird how it was just a 2 second video of anthony saying “yes I am” and then 11 more minutes of a blank screen
"It's not like women are watching my videos in the kitchen anyway" Isn't a good excuse, Anthony.
[thatistheplan reupload] SELF-ROASTING SESH: MELON IS AN INCEL *EXPOSED*!
To save you 11 minutes, yes he is.
Has*
This is exactly something that someone in the Chart Data reply section would say but with zero irony
[proceeds to waste 11 minutes anyway]
@@ronstoppable5659 I hate the fact that that's pretty much true
R B Dorian Electra is non binary but literally how are Rina and Charli “I’m not like those other girls” at all ...
Simpthony Simptano here
Let's also keep in mind that (I personally notice) there are wayyyy less female artists in the mainstream that there are male artists, so you having way less reviews of female artists could be also reflected by that since most of the stuff you reviews is stuff that is popular/requested a lot.
He covered that point in the video.
@@ilovecody7514 not really? He talked about how most of what he gets request for is hiphop oriented stuff and that specific genre dosent have a lot of female artists but I feel like we don't have much female artists in general
@@snowprint He alluded to that with that same point basically. People recommend what is hot in the mainstream which hip hop and etc. Not that hard to put two and two together with common sense.
I don't think that's true in the mainstream. In top 40 radio I think there's actually a pretty good balance of artists. However, in certain genres like hip hop and metal that Fantano is interested in I think it's heavily slanted toward male artists.
Great self aware vid anthony
you really didn't need to take your shirt off and scream "alpha fantano"
Damn this guy got the best teeth in the game
he does have a beautiful smile
You should see them toe nails
Anthony, you didn't have to start an onlyfans just to prove your point on gender equality.
As a woman who has very regularly watched Fabtano and TND for years and years, I had always thought he held a big bias in favor OF women. Just my personal perspective.
Not really, he reviews less women wich makes the scores higher by average
I’d say you’re neutral due to your bisexuality, Anthony
Is Anthony really bisexual? That would be awesome!
@@laserdisc688 no lol look at any comment section on a fantano vid. all of these are ironic.
@@laserdisc688 Sorry bud but no matter his Sexual orientation he still won't bang you, trust me I'd know.
@@laserdisc688 why would that be awesome? It would not chanhe anything... what would you gain from that?
@@Revan-eb1wb I feel like it's because laser disc wants to have sex with fantano.
That's cool to see how Lana went from 2 to 8 and Charli went from 3 to 9
Melon, it’s not okay to say “men are better than women” and then just end the video
*They hated him because he told the truth*
Tbh they’re all equally bad
He has to post this before he gives charli a 10
You can't just say "Yes" and end the video just like that. Cmon Anthony.
yeah, but leaving the camera on for 11min after he walked out of the room was also a pretty strange choice. also, what where those strange noises coming out of the other room?
Woah anthony that quarantine haircut is really getting out of control, I bet you can't wait for the barbers to reopen
I wish I could be as articulate as you about difficult topics like this. Keep up the good work.
I think saying "Guys are just better musicians" was fucked up.
Melon Im not sure giving Virginia Woolf’s “Mrs Dalloway” a Not Good was really relevant. It’s not even music.
I don’t think the problem is that Anthony is sexist, the problem is that the music industry is sexist. For those reasons, there are way more male artists/producers than female artists and that impacts the number of each that Anthony reviews
No
Yes
I respect that you clarified it was a race bias not a gender one. Thank you melon.
I really like how, even though the accusation is pretty unfounded, there are still thoughts put into it in regards to the total number of female artists reviewed, as opposed to male ones etc. It's important to always check, if you're really executing on the things you want to do, and believe in, even if it seems obvious at first.
It’s small but love how he casually acknowledges non-binary artists. Just a small thing that makes me happy.
this man can argue. holy fuck.
I would say all music-geek culture has a gender bias, and still a racial bias too. The second thing is why many top-whatever lists have questionable choices and placement for most things done by a black artist. The first is why there are weird choices for female artists, and far too many missing entries by included artist but also far too many missing artists to start with. Some of the explanations that can cover SOME of this are rather benign or less direct, but others simply are not.
I would say Anthony has a bias too (6.1 vs 6.5 is soft, but still present*), but that is better explained by genre favoritism (favoring music that more male dominated**) vs actually being outright sexist (which he clearly is not).
* In terms of genre X having way more men. I mean, yes, that might also be sexism, but I am referring to Anthony, so external sexism is not relevant to that specific point in this context.
** would be interesting to see how he compares to others. What is the spread with other men and woman? More? Less? Food for thought. Maybe Athony is close to the best, or not.
For example - pop music has plenty of female artists, and sometimes, is dominated by them. If you think pop is lesser* or just don't like it (or most of it), then you will, for non-sexist reasons, have some effective sexism in your coverage (covering men more than woman).
* is not art, is not deep, cannot have or express the same depth as rock or rap, etc. (all things I strongly disagree with)
@@xBINARYGODxThis comment convinced me to run a little test on RYM. I checked the top dance-pop and/or electropop albums of all time with both male and female vocalists tagged in the descriptors.
I found more or less what I expected - though I was surprised to see that Plastic Beach and Thriller were the top albums - the female chart had more variety in artists, and had higher rated/more rated albums generally.
In a combined chart, the top 40 only had 10 albums with the male vocalist tag (AFAICT, one was both), and was generally dominated by Michael and the Pet Shop Boys (who together accounted for 5).
Despite this - again - the two highest rated albums were by male artists, and the highest from a female artist was CRJ's Emotion - the pet favorite from music nerds generally - which was "only" at a 3.84. Good rating, but only enough for 572 on the "best of all time" chart.
What I would take away from this is something I already kind of thought, that women in "music nerd" circles are somewhat pigeonholed into just making "fun music", because the largely male listener base - not really even on purpose - doesn't really relate to music explicitly from the female perspective.
But then that pop music is treated as frivolous and boring unless it's made by an artist that's been canonized into the male world. I think a similar thing happens with politics, what with how people don't tend to take women's issues seriously until a man says it, and how it's more difficult for a woman to gain political power without overwhelming support of the current system.
Not saying anyone should feel bad about themselves, just saying.
Anthony it wasn’t okay for you to rate my younger sister a “strong 10”
Before I make any jokes, how old is she?
Your username belongs to the biggest simp of all time. Who hurt you.
Tell her I said thanks for last night
Stfu you ain’t funny
Problem with this is Anthony will give albums a “light to decent 7” or a “decent to strong 7” so I would argue the point values are probably a little bit different
Dressing up like a girl to prove your point halfway through the video seems offensive melon. Liked and subscribed.
"I'm sorry, but women belong in the kitchen, preferably not behind a microphone."
Goddamn, Melon
This could just be me projecting my own feelings on things but I feel as if Anthony gets excited when he hears a good female LP and probably doesn't even realize he's going a little out of his way to review a decent amount of them because there is this giant stigma around female artists especially in the pop music genre which has been over looked a lot by the male community. It's nice to promote something with more of a feminine touch from time to time. I know myself when I find a good female artist it's always refreshing to me especially when I subconsciously notice there is an imbalence of what I've been listening to that month. Finding good artists with different races and genders is fantastic. Now keep in mind I said "good" because there's good music and there's bad music and that knows no gender haha.
Yes the most important part of me enjoying music for me is gender identity and ethnicity. Not the actual content of the music.
@@Mit852 I can't tell if you're being sarcastic lmao but if you aren't then you missed a very easy and straight forward observation. Let me explain. In response to that I don't think any one should force themselves to listen to anything they don't genuinely enjoy. I made that pretty clear in my statement. All I'm saying is when I lisen to males lyrically and vocally for so long and a good female artist pop up I might end up having them on play for longer periods of time without even realizing just because of its refreshing sound. Also when I recommend music to others I love when theres different genders to throw at them for that same refreshing reason I described. This isn't about what's between their legs and this isn't about what you indentify as to the public it's about the sonics and topical differences each group may have and how it winds up on a record to my ear. I'm not claiming I go out of my way to do these things and I'm not saying music is a fashion show or something to brag about..it's just an observation on how one might go about subconsciously diversifying their library to keep it refreshing. It goes beyond just genders it can also just be trying new genres as well.
@@Mit852 how dumb do you have to be to read that comment and make that summary lol
@@brybry111 I'm just joking with you. I do the exact same thing without realizing it.
@@Mit852 haha ok!
The thing is i think there is a general bias in the music discussion internet world, and i think we all fall a little bit into it, i mean music discussions are generally male-centric. while i do see a shift in the last years to have a more open discussion of female artists (2018 had mitski, and rosalía, 2019 had lana, charli and fka twigs and at least for now in 2020 we have fionna) i think historically women have been relegated or not as openly discussed. recently i have been going on a binge listening to the 'classic' records from the indie scene in the 80s and 90s mostly, and most bands have only male members (wilco, neutral milk hotel, radiohead, pavement, r.e.m., nirvana, hüsker dü, the smiths, the cure and the list goes forever), and don't get me wrong they are amazing but it seems they get far more buzz and discussions than female bands or bands with multiple genders (off the top of my head i can only think of sonic youth, pixies and slowdive and cocteau twins). the other thing i think is happening is there is a multi-gender band, but the whole credit for their success, creativity and influence is attributed only to one man of the group (mbv with kevin shields or talking heads and david byrne). rarely i see solo women on the most influential lists (kate bush and björk are maybe the exception?) and a lot of solo men being discussed (eliott smith, tom waits, phil elverum, etc). honestly idk i may be missing a lot of influential women in the alternatives scenes being discussed in music circles, and im honestly sorry for doing so, im just showing what im seeing maybe and if you have any recommendations on bands or solo acts led by women i would greatly appreciate if! as i said before im going in my deep dive of the 80s and 90s (maybe some 70s too) its totally cool to have a conversation about this
I agree; it’s a greater issues within the music industry. There has been slow progress, but the discussion of female musicians and especially band members, often discredits women. I liked reading your very thoughtful comment. I’m glad this is a debate topic, because the issue of gender bias can be so easily ignored by everyone, including women, like you said. I think some good examples of other successful mostly contemporary female artists are: Fever Ray/The Knife, Grimes, Cat Power, Carly Rae Jepsen, Paramore, Sleater-Kinny, riot girl bands, Janelle Monae, Black Dresses, S, Carissa’s Wierd, Weyes Blood, Wolf Alice, Charlotte Gainsbourg...to name a few.
Melon is really well articulated, I appreciate that
weird that it was the suburban white girl fandom that blew up at anthony the hardest. Not even the kpop fandom went absolutley postal when he gave average+ scores to kpop albums
I was salty by the Be the Cowboy review but, not salty enough to call you sexist lmao.
This was an interesting video, I enjoyed hearing you challenge your own potential or perceived biases! That said, I've never watched a review of yours and thought "he only had that take because _(artist or group)_ is _(identity adjective)_". Your analyses are generally well-researched, comprehensive, and conscious of any bias you might bring to the table; which makes your takes all the more interesting!
Fantano: Doesn’t have a gender bias
Also Fantano: Straight
Hm 🤔
"You hate women, Fantano." Stop talking to yourself in the third person, Anthony
Hatethony Womentano
My favourite genre is metal, which is primarily male. I however also enjoy artists like La Roux, Amaranthe, Caravan Palace, Lzzy Hale, Madison Beer, In This Moment, etc.
I guess my point is that it doesn't really matter to most people what gender someone is, as long as the tunes are good.
The last time I came this early, she kicked me out of bed
Unoriginal
@@Kyonak nothing is original
Simp
@@Kyonak Hey fuck you?
Kyonak Welcome to Fantano’s comment section
I really appreciate you taking this question/topic seriously. Obviously there are some outlandish claims being thrown at you based on score, and that's a massive shame, because I think that as one of the largest music publications out there, there should be room for healthy criticism on issues like bias, but that gets muddied when people boil the issue down to personal attacks.
So yeah, it's great to see you holding yourself to account in a general sense. You're clearly striving to make sure you can improve your reviews through thought processes like this.
On a related note, I'm definitely someone who felt your Fiona Apple review was pretty basic in terms of its critiques, but that discussion being simplified into "anthony is a sexist" was so frustrating, and tbh I think you drove that discussion a little bit by putting a weird minority on blast and then that became the talking point. It also riled up the shiteposty section of your fanbase even more than usual... BUT that's a whole other thing. We're hear for good, fun, engaging music chat, and memes. x
You didn't have to say you hate women. I'm extremely disappointed.
I mean he gave Women an 8 out of 10 in Public Strain.
I totally agree with enjoying people’s music without identifying or relating. For example, I am a gay asian american male but I thoroughly enjoy Formation by Beyoncé which is a song that celebrates black womanhood in america. the song won’t have the same impact on me as it would for the target audience, but i sure love the repetition and the upbeat instrumentals
"Anthony fantano lets himself off the hook for 11mins"
i think it's because the women who you tend to give negative scores to write from a specific kind of "female perspective" and relating to and understanding that adds to the enjoyment of the album.
Saying "yes" and slowing it down until it reaches 11:06 minutes it's not a real content, melon
Dont let this video distract you from the fact that this man has been sitting in these videos all this time long and has managed to decieve many of us that he was standing.Sittingthony Sitthano
saying girls don't have a taste good enough for your channel is not an answer Anthony
anthony is so level headed and smart. the way he talks in this video is fucking incredible. he doesn't try to defend himself or push opinions, he just speaks objectively on the subject at hand. love you melon.
Isn’t Gregor Samsa the main character of the metamorphosis? Who would name their account after him?
I guess someone who's a big fan of Kafka... I mean, I don't agree with this dude but I can see how Gregor is a character that a lot of people easily identify with, so I get why you might use his namesake.
It's interesting that a section of those who normally argue that gender isn't binary are happy to switch to a male/female binary when they want to throw around accusations of misogyny.
We should be analyzing Fantano's haircut bias and his clear preference for bald heads.
Melon, screaming “incel pride, fuck women” was a needless way to push the envelope.
Liked and Subscribed.
*Anthony looks directly into the camera*
YES
If I remember correctly, videogamedunkey once said (because he's obviously a wonderful source to quote), "What matters about a critic is the consistency of their voice" or something along those lines. He himself went into how that doesn't make every critic or reviewer good, but when we see things like a similar ballpark for scores for male/female artists or across genres I think that point shines through. There are lots of different kinds of biases someone could have, but I think going as far to claim someone as dedicated to their work as Anthony would have a bias towards anything but the music loses credence almost immediately. No doubt better things you could go after than sexism, not that I'm encouraging it. I'm not real into music and I really only check in on melon for separate videos or reviews that really catch my interest, but I say he's fairly consistent.
We know Melon only did this vid because he’s bout to give Future’s album an 12/10
Inshallah
He loved Lingua Ignota's album. Thats all i remember.
Anthony please make a tier list video of your favorite racial slurs, thank you.
Dude really came in with the hard, throbbing, uncut evidence
This floating head is talking crazy.
I wonder if he'd say he was as pleased if it was 6.5 for males vs 6.1 for females.
Gender bias but Fantano nuts every time Charli XCX speaks...
Love the way you drilled in your point when you said that women should stop making music and get back in the kitchen