I wish I can post a picture of the UCC church here in Chicago that has a giant banner going across the top dome of the church that says “Black Lives Matter”…Disgusting!
Yeshua calls those that are of a humble heart that want Life, his church is not a welcoming of bringing your own opinions and beliefs to The kingdom. He emphasized Belief in him for a reason. He is the True path that leads to life and that is a life that supercedes culture and manmade inventions of the mind and heart or as most call it, beliefs. Believing in Yeshua means letting go of everything and trusting that what he will teach you and what he will do in your life beginning within your heart will lead to the perfect indwelling with YHWH from on High, sitting at the right hand of Yeshua as Yeshua sits at the right hand of Abba. If you want to follow Yeshua and have True Freedom, you must give your mind to him, not to another of flesh and blood, but the Living Messiah Yeshua who comes to us as he has from beginning to End. He is the Alpha and Omega and he is what leads unto to life. If your Faith is in denominational doctrines and traditions, you put yourself under the Law and have no freedom, but if you walk his paths, Loving YHWH with all your mind, soul, heart, and strength, you will love your neighbors, even your enemies as you would yourself and you would walk as Yeshua walked. You would be perfect as Your Father in Heaven is perfect.
I believed in God when I was young, then became an atheist and was one for most of my adult life. Not an atheist anymore. Life is change. Churches should have open doors to all people. God loves them, and so should we. But churches should also teach the undiluted gospel as Christ has given it. Let the Lord in his grace and power make the changes in people according to his schedule.
Vincent Coppola Yes. The convicting power of the Holy Spirit makes us all feel uncomfortable until we are convinced and repentant. But afterward such freedom! We should allow the Holy Spirit to do his job, while we do our jobs: to love God and other people.
the problem is, there are so many different theological view points out there and every denomination is claiming they're the ones who got it right? so what the holy spirit is doing really is sow confusion to the believers? tsk! this is what religion boils to. fanaticism of one's own version of a single myth. that's why i prefer the mainline churches. they're one of the few theists who realize that theology is nothing but creative interpretation based on BIASES. so instead, they just teach that the core foundation of christianity is love. that's it. love without prejudice that exercises equality and justice for everyone.
@@leprechaunbutreallyjustamidget I consider it equally a shame that the countless friends, family, doctors, therapists, support groups, and scientists get no recognition. A man recovering from addiction is as much a result of the whole community surrounding him as himself. It reminds me of cancer patients thanking God for saving their lives while ignoring their doctors and nurses.
So, it sounds like a lot of these are just basically social clubs with motivational speakers. I am genuinely curious what sort of music is performed and sung by the congregations, especially at the platforms where they do their best to completely avoid any mention of the supernatural. It would be hard enough getting participation in the groups with widely differing beliefs, but the ones with no established beliefs at all--what can they possibly sing about? I guess it would have to be songs venerating positive qualities of mankind itself--in which case, that is who they would be worshipping.
I'm someone who was an agnostic for a decade (coming close to atheism at one point), and although I eventually returned to Christianity, I respect theists, atheists, and agnostics who are decent and respectful people. There are some people at my church who used to be atheists but have since embraced God. I think heavy proselytizing can often make things worse; while it may be unintentional, it can often make someone feel like they're a bad person or unwelcome if they don't accept or understand everything, and also if they don't do things "the right way" according to that person, church, religious custom, etc. That said, if one chooses to attend a church that was and is even a little bit Christian, they need to be prepared for Christianity to be offered as "the best" alternative, according to that Christian church (be it a denomination or an individual church). There's nothing wrong with that. If I were to attend a service at a mosque, I'd expect Islam to be offered as "the best" alternative, according to that religion or mosque, and there's nothing wrong with that, either. Instead of heavy proselytizing, welcome someone with love and genuine respect for their being and their religious freedom. Do that successfully and show love and respect by example, and it's more likely that people will choose to return and maybe even to join the community.
I would also say when proselytizing if the person in question asks you to stop you should because as Jesus said "Don't toss pearls before swine" and if you preach to someone who continuously unrepentant you are causing them to sin more
Ironic. The moment you declare you have no doctrine (5:47), you are actually stating a doctrine. It is like saying you have no creed as that is a creed. It is a bit of a paradox, but it is unfortunately true. Also, all three of those points are doctrinal positions.
Saying we accept all beliefs as equally true is tantamount to saying we reject all beliefs because we believe they are all equally false. The only difference is the second statement has thought through the first.
This reminded me of a funny story: A few years ago, I was passing through a building that's under construction, and the name above it said "AGNOSTIC CENTER." My brain went, "Heh. What's next, Procrastinators Anonymous?" and a few dozen other jokes that you might not find funny. (I'm an apatheist, btw.) Turns out, the sign wasn't finished yet. It was going to be "NKTI Diagnostic Center", a kidney dialysis and transplant facility. I know it's not really related to the video, I just thought to share it 😅
Good one, thanks! 🤣 Also, if you ever find a real ‘Procrastinators Anonymous’ , please let me know where I can sign up! Or, even better, you sign me up because I will never get around to it.
Wow... RIP the comments section. Interesting video, though. Clearly people want a community group experience and are not getting it from their geographical community. This does leave me with some questions that I don't know how to answer. I wonder how many people go to their church for the community experience but secretly don't believe the message of that church. I wonder if churches are less popular in areas that have a strong community in their neighborhood. And finally, as all these videos make me wonder, what is the upper limit of total number of denominations Christianity can be splintered into.
I consider myself to be Agnostic but I still enjoy attending church at my ELCA Congregation because I enjoy the community and have enjoy performing and listening to liturgical music
As someone from a UCC church, in our beliefs section of our church website, we profess belief in Christ and the Trinity. We call ourselves Christian. UCC churches are autonomous and write their own belief statements. UCC website does talk about belief in Christ and Christ's path though. Our first inclination to the neighbor next door to the church, who is pantheist, is to extend welcome and a smile, rather than convert him. He respects our Christ and we respect his path. How would I feel if someone tried to convert me, vs show me the way to live and let me choose?
Church is supposed to be a time and place where God's people gather to worship Him; not a social club for people to get the newest gossip on everybody. I say that because I'm not sure of how many people understand what church is and why we have them. We seek God, and we believe that as we seek, we will find Him. As God gets more involved in our lives, we become more like Him because as we draw closer to Him, more of His presence comes into our lives. Yes, this means change. As the Holy Spirit comes into our lives, amazing things will happen. Where we were weak, powerless, indecisive, clueless, and much more, God replaces those things with strength, power, certainty, and wisdom, and much more. This is a taste of what God has to offer. Having church without God is TOTALLY pointless.
Having gone there for years because it was the only church around, this response is totally true. I just watched their confirmation TH-cam video where a young teen described his daily kabbalistic prayer routine. When you live in remote and largely non-Christian areas, you take what you can get.
Truth is whatever the majority of the citizens in your country/area. Truth is also what your kind and loving parents taught you to believe. If your parents were aholes and you go bouncing around in foster care (like I did) you search until something makes sense to you. At 73 I've dived deep into Judaism, the Bahai, Islam, Sufism, Christianity (actually Paul) and Catholicism. All had good points and stuff I didn't like. Christians ticked me off the most. They expected me to suspend my problems with scripture and be a Christain anyway. I wasn't there when any of the books were written. Therefore, I think none are infallible. Uncomfortable is not my thing...and I don't think Jesus himself pushed that concept. I choose to be a Unitarian Universalist
The problem with that quote is, a lot of times, today, saying “hey I’m Christian you should come to church with Me” seems to preach and just turns them away, I’ve found them just knowing you’re Christian and being kind, showing a good image for Christian people, converts them more often
I agree- I experienced it myself. I do think it's fine to invite people to go to church with you (though "should" isn't the word I would use!) if you have known them for some time. I invited my best friend to come to my church, they're going this weekend :)
You present The Gospel, you act in a way that draws people to Christ. But you cannot force people to change that is the power of the Holy Spirit to convert..
@@shan3671 Comfortability is not what we should aim for. What matters is whether they receive the word properly or not, not whether they are "comfortable" or not.
Considering the majority of churches in the United States are disgustingly hostile to other people it's no wonder many are straight-up afraid to go to church unless they explicitly affirm. You're misguided if you think that you don't do the exact same thing with your own congregation.
Yeah. While a church should be fully welcoming, it should also be aiming people to better themselves. And bettering oneself is partly about non-affirmation of your present state.
SSPX Crisis in the Church series is great! The one about validity of Novus Ordo Priest Ordinations really clarified the Old Rite vs New Rite dilemma. The really lay it out in detail.
WOW!! Atheist: “I want to feel better about life and death but I don’t want to change anything in my life.” UCC member: “No problem, Christ does not want you to change but you can change him to fit you. We don’t believe the Bible either.”
@@neocyte85 By saying "bigot" in a conservative Christian comments section, you have already embarrassed yourself. By taking Islam seriously, you have doubly embarrassed yourself. You need to acquire some self-awareness.
Seems to me many people search more of a social experience rather than a religious one, especially in the nature of low-church american churches, in contrast to more liturgical ones, where the focus is put more in ritual.
@@XSquibX The reason of a liturgical act is ritualistic in itself, I don't know how it could ignore the reason of the ritual when the ritual in itself is the reason of church gathering.
@@adrian7856 You said many in the low church look to socialize instead of to God and many in the high church look to ritual instead of to God. What I'm saying is, both miss the mark if they aren't focused on God, salvation and His plans for the church, but instead are looking to socializing or ritual. Socializing is important as we are meant to fellowship, but it's not the goal. tradition can be positive too. Many liturgies are very theologically rich and shouldn't be instantly dismissed by the low church. The issue is a focus on those traditional things as the end goal, just as the socializing.. A relationship with God, sanctification and being a testimony to the world is meant to be the goal..
@@XSquibX certainly yes they both have that potential, all churches have that potential. I would say that potential is much lower in a ritually based congregation than a socially based congregation.
Doesn't it rather depend what she meant by "pressured"? It could mean *encourages them to change, but does not use coercive tactics", rather than "does not encourage them to change".
In the church I’ve been attending and am thinking about membership, you can attend as a member of any religion or no religion, you must be an small case orthodox Christian to be a member, and you must agree with the Westminster Confession and the Westminster Shorter and Larger Catechisms to be an elder (whether that be a teaching elder/pastor or a ruling elder) or a deacon.
What I don't understand is people who try and build a religion of their liking. If you're going to be Christian, then your core beliefs should be pretty clear. If you're going to disbelieve in many core elements of the faith, then why pretend you're still a Christian? It doesn't make sense.
Atheists, agnostics, and the full spectrum of doubters are pretty much accepted at most synagogues. We are more concerned with deeds than thought, following required mitzvot and avoiding prohibited ones. But think what you want and proselytizing is one of our anathemas.
wow. i didn't believe it until I googled it (it took several attempts because there seem to be a lot of churches called Oasis in Texas!) "Houston Oasis is a secular community that meets weekly on Sunday mornings to enjoy fascinating talks, live music, and conversation." so it seems to be actively positioning itself as an atheist parody of a church. And, yes, they do seem to have doctrine ,,,
@@chilternsroamer872 Some years back, I heard a story on NPR about "Church of Brunch", a secular gathering of people who would sing positive non-religious songs, do inspirational non-religious readings, and then have a potluck afterwards. Many of the attendees were people who were spiritual but had no specific belief, and wanted a gathering of like-minded people and found it in this.
I'm thinking of joining the Episcopal Church. I'm "intellectually irreligious" but have an extremely strong psychological draw towards religion, particularly Christianity and its art and rituals. I'm very fond of the ornate, formalistic style of e.g. Roman Catholicism (giant cathedrals, hyper-elaborate art, very formal and serious ritual, ancient hymns etc.), and I think Anglicanism, Episcopal Church in particular, offers a good balance between that and being intellectually compatible with a rational scientific worldview in a Kierkegaardian or Wittgensteinian sense. I feel like UU and similar things are too broad and informal and unstructured for me, and some of the others in this video like the Sunday Assembly strike me as nothing more than a general discussion group with none of the meaningful functions of religion or a Church. Any thoughts?
How about instead of finding a church that fits your desires, you find out who the God of the Bible actually is, and find a place that takes him seriously for who he actually is?
Wait. They said 'We don't do supernatural but won't tell you you're wrong if you do' but just two sentences ago they said 'we come from nothing and go to nothing.' Um.
“Most people who think they have rejected God have really only rejected a caricature of him.” - Rich Hannon When I was a small boy - and for the next forty years - my mother often used the phrase, “the honest in heart”, to express her belief that she would meet people in heaven who didn’t share all of her religious beliefs. Another phrase that conveys a similar attitude is, “safe to save”. I like to combine those phrases. People who, in their inmost hearts, are true and honest are safe to save, i.e. less likely to disturb the tranquility of heaven than religious zealots who think they should tell everyone else what to believe and what to do and not do. Our dad told my siblings and me about the doctrines he had been taught in catechism classes when he was a boy. He never rejected all of those doctrines but he was careful to explain his reasons for rejecting some of them. AND he never taught us to hate the people who believe and teach the doctrines he rejected. Our parents believed in religious liberty for everyone - not just the people with whom they agreed. Hopefully, my siblings and I are likewise willing to consider as candidates for heaven people who believe doctrines we have rejected. Please don’t take the following list of doctrines I have rejected as a way to decide who is truly Christian and who is not. Our parents read Bible stories to us an average of five or six times per week until we could read them for ourselves. Then they encouraged us to read our Bibles for ourselves AND they asked us questions about the stories to make sure we understood the stories. Sometimes they asked us to tell them the stories - and to paraphrase any parts of the stories we hadn’t memorized. By the time each of us was ten, we had memorized more than 150 Bible passages, at least one quarter of which were from the Hebrew Bible. When I was about ten, I realized that one of the reasons our parents interpreted the Bible differently than the majority of our neighbors did was because most of our neighbors didn’t read their Bibles very much except on Sundays and the stories they were hearing from the pulpit were almost entirely from the Gospels and the Epistles. Neither of our parents were Hebrew but it seemed to me that, as a result of reading and studying the Hebrew Bible more than our neighbors did, our parents, my siblings and I were more inclined to identify as children of Israel (Jacob) than most of our neighbors did. One of the first doctrines I rejected was the doctrine that laity should depend on clergy to interpret the Bible for us. Because I believed the death of Jesus on Calvary is all-sufficient for the redemption of our planet and Adam’s rebellious race and that the sacrifice of Jesus is never to be repeated or supplemented in any way, I rejected the sacrifice of the mass. Before I was in my teens, I rejected the doctrine that priests on Earth can turn bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus. I also rejected the doctrine that Christians need the intercession of priests on Earth or saints in heaven. I considered my parents' religion to be personal - not institutional - and to be based on the Bible rather than on traditions. Our parents read stories to us about the protestant reformation and bought books for us about Martin Luther and John Wesley. We were taught to admire the reformers but not to idolize them. How many doctrines do you consider to be both Christian and important? Why insist that people subscribe to any other doctrines than those? The problem with a creed is that if a person is told he dare not question the creed, that requires that he turn off part of his brain. It is no mystery to me that an explosion of innovation in many fields of endeavor followed hard on the heels of the radical and heretical doctrine that humans don’t need to burn at the stake anyone who questions religious dogma. Many people’s definition of faith is believing something for which there is insufficient evidence - or none. (Or, as Archie Bunker once said, “Faith is believing something nobody in his right mind would.) Well, I have a suggestion. How about if we, as a society (U.S.A.), discourage that definition of faith in favor of the one in Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the evidence...of things not seen.
Hey, I go with your bottom line. Faith is the evidence of things not seen. Though I am a Unitarian, I believe there is some kind of power mainly because I believe there was a big bang but something or some chemicals created that and if it is simply chemicals something created them. Whether that power has a deep focus on just the people of earth (forget plants animals sea creatures and bugs) or the USA in particular beats me. I know that I don't know, and I know no one else does either.
ACNA - Anglican Church In North America is in the US and Canada and a few other places. There are also other excellent Anglican churches around the world. Let me know if you want more info.
The Apostle Paul visited a town like that. He saw it worshipped hundreds of gods and one idol dedicated to “the unknown god”. I guess Paul visited a UU or UCC town. However, he used the opportunity as he stood beside the unknown god statue to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I would like to talk to someone that goes to one of these "churches" that is full of atheists and people who claim other religions. What are they getting out of these places? The theology would have to be dead if you have consistent substantial non-Christian attendance. Why bother showing up?
Well, theology isn't the sole purpose of church, or the sole value of religion. Certainly it's important - at least for the believer in any faith - but those spaces where believers gather are more than just places where someone says, "I think what you think!" and you go, "Me too!" Those sorts of spaces can also offer a sense of community. They can foster kinship between otherwise distant peoples. And, regardless of whether you believe that the stories happened or not, the contents of the Bible - or really any religious book - can still offer comfort and moral guidance, just like any great work of art, and that can be greatly enhanced by sharing this value with others. So while an athiest may not believe a god - or the God - is literally answering their prayers, that doesn't mean the Bible, or the community surrounding, instantly loses any and all value. Far from it, and I think that's a beautiful thing that the message can reach beyond its immediate demographic.
Attend one of their services. It's about loving your neighbor. Accepting people instead of judging them is much more Christ-like than telling people they're going to hell all day. "They will know we are Christians by our love."
@@jfletcher2357 If that is accurate and that's all these churches preach, then yes the theology is dead. As others have pointed out, theology is not the only aspect to a church. Not even the only important one. But it is an important one, for certain. I would argue that it's so important that a church that doesn't properly preach the gospel cannot properly be called "Christian" or any of the denominations therein. Which is probably why many of the suggestions this person received reference universalism in their names.
I’ve been to several Catholic churches as well as what’s the weather imaginations. I don’t think I ever felt any pressure to convert. I’m not a big deal I’m from a different religion so that is refreshing. I do think that some communities are not likely to push for my mother. I personally think that God expects us to show up and he will do the rest.
Good video as always. Seems that some of the commenters miss understand the reasons behind and purpose of such churches. Might make an interesting video to talk more about the topic. Keep up the great work
This, I don’t understand why you would be against the existence of these churches? I think they are perfectly reasonable. And I believe that many people in such churches have put more thought into matters like Religion then the people hating in this comment section.
I'm surprised on the Baptist congregations. I expected a lot of Unitarian Universalists and ELCA on this list. Also, due to a notoriously heretical ELCA congregation, I picture something else every time you say, "her church."
Fascinating. I dig data and deep thoughts and I like your videos. I'm not a Christian, I used to be and often pondered on denominational thoughts. Cool stuff
I have a friend who is a retired United Church of Canada minister (he still preaches at the United Church here on our little Island just off Vancouver Island). We have coffee together on occasion. One day I read that the Church had just ordained and atheist minister-a woman, at that-so I asked him his opinion. Now, he’s probably what many Christians would call ‘liberal’-but, as he said about atheist preachers: “That’s where I draw the line!” Nevertheless, he invites me to hear him preach even though I myself am an atheist.
Not Gonna Lie From The Title And Thumbnail, I Kinda Thought This Video Was A Meme Before I Clicked, As I Didn't Know The Channel, But I'm Not Disappointed, This Was All In All Quite Interesting.
The sum of inclusivity in Church is really simple: Come as you are, go out as Christ's. If a Church fails in either regard by refusing to allow those who are seeking God in, or refusing to fulfil the Great Commission: they fail the Great Commandment and aren't Christian whatsoever.
@@mysticheathen3455 correct: Divine love doesn't push it's own way. It pushes God's way. What is God's way? Jesus. What does Jesus command of us? To love the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul, and strength; then love others as we would love ourselves (the whole of the Bible really shows us how to do this considering that the Great Commandment is the fulfillment of the whole law). He also explicitly commands us to make Disciples of all nations: Baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: teaching them to obey Christ. We are explicitly commanded to seek the conversion of all. If you disbelieve this, consider that the Disciples then went on to do exactly that: convert others to Christ and grow in Him. To refuse to desire others to become brothers and sisters in the faith is unloving: of both God and others.
@@mysticheathen3455 No one can force anyone to believe anything. But Christians must preach the message to the lost. It's then up to the lost to decide if they want to change their status to "found."
I've spoken to God and I asked Him: -what do you think about Atheists? Why don't you "eliminate" them? and He answered: -why should I? They're the only ones who aren't stealing my job!
Can you do a video comparing Independent Baptists with Southern Baptists?I am SBC myself and am curious of the differences other than independent Baptists not belong to a convention. Thank you!
I'm inclined to disagree with the congregations that feel absolutely no compulsion to present a gospel that has implications for the Life to Come. Paul was quite right in saying that the Christian movement was rather pointless without the hope of the resurrection from the dead as found in Jesus Christ. At the same time, there's a tendency to overvalue human persuasive power when it comes to the gospel message. We have a responsibility to proclaim the message, but the convincing is done on the inside by the Spirit of God. Anyone who is swayed by a silver tongue is unlikely to have actual Christian faith. Ergo, if these churches at least bother to recite the creeds and to provide gospel-centered liturgical readings, then maybe they can still express an eternal hope to the nonbelievers despite their phobia of overt proselytizing.
As an atheist and partly due to the influence of this channel as well as the direction and trend of American religious values my view on church attendance is evolving. It is becoming quite clear that it is of vital importance that atheist attend religious observances. As I've said before the biggest problem with Islam is there's not enough atheist. We act as a limiting factor on extremism. If you want a bad person to do something good there's a number of ways to incentivize him, but if you want a good person to do something bad religion is one of the most effective ways. Basically religion is too important to leave to the believer.
I went to a church that was started by a church-of-christ prison-ministry and that became 'Sabbatarian' (but mostly just because they met on Saturdays :0)) ) and--tho every announcement & song & reading & prayer etc. was "in the name of Jesus, God is Good, Amen-Amen-Amen, and GOD IS GREAT!"--there were a few atheists & Buddhists etc. who were considered "members" just as much as the Christians there.
Confessional Lutherans don't pressure anybody. We preach law and gospel and let the Holy Ghost do His work on unbelievers. If an atheist wants to come to my church and sit and listen to the sermon and liturgy, that would be fine with me. He could come for 20 years and just as long as he didn't do anything crazy or take communion, he would be welcome. Of course, we would ask him if he were interested in an inquirers class or membership, but if they said no that would be fine. He could even Chow down to his heart's content on potluck dinners made by nice old German women. We would hope that perhaps some day the atheist would stop resisting the Holy Spirit. I can't see how a radical secularists would enjoy what we do but his presence wouldn't bother us in the least.
My immediate thought was Unitarian Universalist. 2:32 "this movement"... *what* movement? ISTM that a movement without a (solid) creed isn't much of a movement.
I am neither Christian nor Atheist, but I am glad that there are churches out there that offer the religious experience without having to conform to doctrinal beliefs.
@@lukesalazar9283 I studied various religions at a young age and came to my own conclusions on the matter. The closest religious concept you could lump me in with would be pantheist.
people in these comments are all like "this is bad bc they're conforming to man instead of god" or whatever bullshit, and honestly to me this is such a breath of fresh air knowing there are christians and churches who won't try to convert me the instant i say i'm not christian if i go in and try to make it a good experience regardless. one minute step into a generally more welcoming society, obviously something the evangelicals and the like in these comments have never been too excited about.
I’m pretty sure the most doctrinally rigid Christian Churches like Catholicism and Orthodoxy allow atheists to attend liturgy, in fact in those Churches the existence of a congregation during the liturgy is unnecessary for the liturgy to take place.
I mentored a couple where the man was an agnostic. We attempted to live out our faith and not have us change him. the spirit led him to ask questions. He is now a follower and believer. Jesus changes people, you have to allow yourself to get around people who don't think like you. If your witness is hateful and exclusionary, I've seen the poor rejected from Sunday school, it's worthless. Love and serve your neighbor, wear a mask and get vaccinated. Live the reputation of Christ.
There are atheist megachurches. They wouldn't pressure atheists to change. It answers her question. She can sing "shout to the void all the Earth let us sing, power and majesty praise to nothing" just ask Tim Hawkins.
Sorry to say it, but Penn Jillette is just wrong about the proselytizing. His truck analogy doesn't work. If a truck were about to hit an unaware person, you could tackle them because that would actually succeed in saving their life, no matter how much it upsets them. Plus, you can actually see how close the truck is, so you know exactly how much time you have left to try respectful reasoning before you have no choice but to tackle. On the other hand, if hell were real, and atheists just don't know it, proselytizing will not succeed in "saving" them; it will only drive them away. Besides, if they are young and healthy, you can expect them to have a few more decades before going to hell, not just a few seconds, like with the truck. If you are a believer, worried about an atheist going to hell, your best strategy is to not pressure them and keep them close, where at least you can hope some day they will "come around."
The “truck” is always there: truck, car, bus, airplane, cancer, covid, pneumonia, choking, bullet, knife, baseball bat, falling, etc… People die every day from a myriad of reason; regardless of age; from infant to well aged yet appearing healthy. Climatologist feel a yearning to convert every living being to their way of thinking. Ignoring the science I was taught in school, that the earth goes through warming and cooling cycles. One volcanic eruption could plunge the earth in another ice age. Virologist want to get everyone vaccinated; even though, other than some major issues, most people could live a healthy productive life without ever receiving one injection. With just these two examples in mind; why wouldn’t someone that considers themselves to be a Christian not tell others there is a heaven and a hell? And the choice has to be made before death; which could happen any second.
All analogies break down at some point. I think his main point was that he is not offended by Christians trying to proselytize him, because it has meaning for them. It's actually incredibly gracious compared to most atheists.
People say "God loves the sinner but hates the sin!" Yet the Bibles talks about God hating all who do wrong: Psa. 5:5-"...you hate ALL that do wrong." 34:16- "The Face of the Lord is against THOSE who do evil." Prov. 28:9- "If anyone turns a deaf ear to the law, even his PRAYERS are detestable!" And one of my favorites, 2 Chron. 19:2- "Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, the wrath of the Lord is upon you!" And, if you want a New Testament scripture, John 9:31- "We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does His will."
I always respected Penn for his magic and politics, but to know that even as an Atheist he has beliefs that are more "hardline" than many Christians is reaffirming
It isn't for man to "pressure" you to change, that is the power of the Holy Spirit. It is the responsibility of Christians to tell you the truth of your predicament and the good news of salvation. After that, it is up to each person to believe or disbelieve the message, this is the pinnacle of human free will.
What a wonderful idea! A school where students aren't pressured to learn sounds like a wonderful thing and just what our society is in need of right now. Students could actually focus on topics that matter to them and the world would be a much better place for it. Thank you for making this great suggestion
@@phogeysquatch Then you are aware that non theistic churches can serve a good purpose. Not everyone thinks God is vile enough to send his creations to hell for eternity for simply not believing in him.
@@404Dannyboy you don't go to hell for not believing in him you go to hell because you didn't turn from your sin and trusted in Christ to save you from said place of torment
Going to church without changing is like going to the gym without lifting weights. Yes, lifting weights sucks and you're sore the day after, but if you keep at it you'll be in great shape.
I'm an atheist, but affiliate with a Unitarian Universalist congregation--they know I'm an atheist and they are fine with that. Its a refreshing change from growing up in the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Lots of churches are fine with that. I dated a few religious girls, catholic, orthodox, and unitarian, and attended church with them as an atheist with nary a complaint from anyone. It is mostly only the hardcore evangelicals and baptists that have seizures over atheists in their presence.
Personally I wonder if you would applies this standard to more immediate threats to someones being, like obesity or drug abuse. We should let people express their own personal autonomy.
@@mememan9890 the purpose of the church is to spread the good news, and if this is presented in a very non personal way, without teaching the ignorant that THEY are saved, that message isnt conveyed very well
@@cheez-itman2784 I mean in the context of a church or a religious service I would understand, I was referring to more casual occurrences. Like going through a grocery store and having some dude tell me I need to be saved or I am saved.
@@christinacody5845 a Quaker meeting? Google is useful for that. If you're in the USA, Friends General Conference is a good place to look for meetings. If you're in the UK, Quaker . org if you're in Australia, QuakersAustralia . org . au
There's kind of a running joke within the UCC that the initials really stand for "Universalists Considering Christ".
Not sure they "consider" Christ at all. BTW obama use to go to a UCC in Chicago ... that tells you everything you need to know bout them!!!
Universalists arent all in a cookie cutter shape. Some universalists accept christ and some do
I wish I can post a picture of the UCC church here in Chicago that has a giant banner going across the top dome of the church that says “Black Lives Matter”…Disgusting!
@@Mario-dd9dh no it doesn’t
@@ChristisLord1917 actually it's true ... and I should know because I use to be an atheist before I became a born-again Christian.
There's a big difference between a church that is welcoming to people of all beliefs and a church that institutionalizes no belief.
There is indeed and both exist.
An institution with no beliefs inevitably means an institution with contradictory beliefs.
Yeshua calls those that are of a humble heart that want Life, his church is not a welcoming of bringing your own opinions and beliefs to The kingdom. He emphasized Belief in him for a reason. He is the True path that leads to life and that is a life that supercedes culture and manmade inventions of the mind and heart or as most call it, beliefs. Believing in Yeshua means letting go of everything and trusting that what he will teach you and what he will do in your life beginning within your heart will lead to the perfect indwelling with YHWH from on High, sitting at the right hand of Yeshua as Yeshua sits at the right hand of Abba. If you want to follow Yeshua and have True Freedom, you must give your mind to him, not to another of flesh and blood, but the Living Messiah Yeshua who comes to us as he has from beginning to End. He is the Alpha and Omega and he is what leads unto to life. If your Faith is in denominational doctrines and traditions, you put yourself under the Law and have no freedom, but if you walk his paths, Loving YHWH with all your mind, soul, heart, and strength, you will love your neighbors, even your enemies as you would yourself and you would walk as Yeshua walked. You would be perfect as Your Father in Heaven is perfect.
I agree. I also firmly believe the UCC is one of the former. Read their beliefs online. Many of these comments are misinformed
@@HolyKhaaaaan You are totally correct.
“Self-described domestic goddess”
Joshua, HOW do you read this with a straight face??? This is why I love your channel.
I wouldn't want to play poker against him.
He's a researcher. It's his business to delve into everybody's little weirdnesses
How egotistical does someone have to be to call themselves a “domestic goddess?” Any “church” that allows that is no church at all.
He is pretty good at it. I noted that as well.
If you talk fast enough, you don't have time to laugh
I believed in God when I was young, then became an atheist and was one for most of my adult life. Not an atheist anymore.
Life is change.
Churches should have open doors to all people. God loves them, and so should we.
But churches should also teach the undiluted gospel as Christ has given it. Let the Lord in his grace and power make the changes in people according to his schedule.
Amen
As a former atheist myself, I appreciate this comment man :)
I think most church doors are open to all people but the gospel message may be uncomfortable to some.
Vincent Coppola Yes. The convicting power of the Holy Spirit makes us all feel uncomfortable until we are convinced and repentant. But afterward such freedom!
We should allow the Holy Spirit to do his job, while we do our jobs: to love God and other people.
the problem is, there are so many different theological view points out there and every denomination is claiming they're the ones who got it right? so what the holy spirit is doing really is sow confusion to the believers? tsk! this is what religion boils to. fanaticism of one's own version of a single myth.
that's why i prefer the mainline churches. they're one of the few theists who realize that theology is nothing but creative interpretation based on BIASES. so instead, they just teach that the core foundation of christianity is love. that's it. love without prejudice that exercises equality and justice for everyone.
Christ saved me out of drug addiction. I'm still awe struck today.
@@leprechaunbutreallyjustamidget Typical atheist. Its all about you, not about logos
@@leprechaunbutreallyjustamidget I consider it equally a shame that the countless friends, family, doctors, therapists, support groups, and scientists get no recognition. A man recovering from addiction is as much a result of the whole community surrounding him as himself. It reminds me of cancer patients thanking God for saving their lives while ignoring their doctors and nurses.
But in the Bible nothing is said about drug addiction LOLOLOL
@antimagik corp God does nothing XD
@@404Dannyboy BASED AF
So thankful you're not even showing bias towards theistic vs non-theistic content. That is truly "all sides".
@@buzzhawk who?
@@buzzhawk huh
@@buzzhawk wot?
So, it sounds like a lot of these are just basically social clubs with motivational speakers. I am genuinely curious what sort of music is performed and sung by the congregations, especially at the platforms where they do their best to completely avoid any mention of the supernatural. It would be hard enough getting participation in the groups with widely differing beliefs, but the ones with no established beliefs at all--what can they possibly sing about? I guess it would have to be songs venerating positive qualities of mankind itself--in which case, that is who they would be worshipping.
I mean, God is the ideal man that is why "he made us his image" is a thing
I'm someone who was an agnostic for a decade (coming close to atheism at one point), and although I eventually returned to Christianity, I respect theists, atheists, and agnostics who are decent and respectful people. There are some people at my church who used to be atheists but have since embraced God.
I think heavy proselytizing can often make things worse; while it may be unintentional, it can often make someone feel like they're a bad person or unwelcome if they don't accept or understand everything, and also if they don't do things "the right way" according to that person, church, religious custom, etc.
That said, if one chooses to attend a church that was and is even a little bit Christian, they need to be prepared for Christianity to be offered as "the best" alternative, according to that Christian church (be it a denomination or an individual church). There's nothing wrong with that. If I were to attend a service at a mosque, I'd expect Islam to be offered as "the best" alternative, according to that religion or mosque, and there's nothing wrong with that, either.
Instead of heavy proselytizing, welcome someone with love and genuine respect for their being and their religious freedom. Do that successfully and show love and respect by example, and it's more likely that people will choose to return and maybe even to join the community.
A balance definitely needs to be struck with, when and how we prostyle.
I would also say when proselytizing if the person in question asks you to stop you should because as Jesus said "Don't toss pearls before swine" and if you preach to someone who continuously unrepentant you are causing them to sin more
That's like saying, "I want to be a vegan who eats steak"
I guess the UCC serves Beyound Jesus
The impossible burger
Roger that. :D
the impossible belief
A murderer who doesn't kill for ethic reasons lol
Ironic. The moment you declare you have no doctrine (5:47), you are actually stating a doctrine. It is like saying you have no creed as that is a creed. It is a bit of a paradox, but it is unfortunately true. Also, all three of those points are doctrinal positions.
I don't think I understand.
Is a blank page a set of rules?
@@TwizzElishus
stating the non-existence of a doctrine is a doctrine?
How would a group who truly didn't have a doctrine communicate such?
@@lee0495 I think he’s saying that “you can’t write on this blank page” is in fact a rule
Saying we accept all beliefs as equally true is tantamount to saying we reject all beliefs because we believe they are all equally false.
The only difference is the second statement has thought through the first.
It's a self-refuting argument.
One thing I love about your channel is by being non-bias your channel shows empathy.
United Church of Canada, some of the ministers are atheists or close to it.
Even though they no longer identify as Christian. The Unitarian Universalists would be an interest subject to explore.
At least they're getting more honest.
Interesting. The one thing that was kind of putting me off of UU was their kind of slant toward Christianity. I guess I don't have an excuse now.
Ok, this is now my favorite video from you Joshua!!
This reminded me of a funny story: A few years ago, I was passing through a building that's under construction, and the name above it said "AGNOSTIC CENTER." My brain went, "Heh. What's next, Procrastinators Anonymous?" and a few dozen other jokes that you might not find funny. (I'm an apatheist, btw.)
Turns out, the sign wasn't finished yet. It was going to be "NKTI Diagnostic Center", a kidney dialysis and transplant facility.
I know it's not really related to the video, I just thought to share it 😅
Good one, thanks! 🤣 Also, if you ever find a real ‘Procrastinators Anonymous’ , please let me know where I can sign up! Or, even better, you sign me up because I will never get around to it.
Yea I need a Procrastinators Anonymous
I got a good chuckle at the group that claimed they dont have doctrines, well, except for that statement. There is always doctrine.
Wow... RIP the comments section. Interesting video, though. Clearly people want a community group experience and are not getting it from their geographical community. This does leave me with some questions that I don't know how to answer. I wonder how many people go to their church for the community experience but secretly don't believe the message of that church. I wonder if churches are less popular in areas that have a strong community in their neighborhood. And finally, as all these videos make me wonder, what is the upper limit of total number of denominations Christianity can be splintered into.
the number of christian denominations?
ITS OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!
@@4sythdude549 protestant denomination
@@4sythdude549 impossible!!! (Scouter explodes)
Everyone experiences religion differently, so you could reasonably say that there are 2.6 billion denominations
I consider myself to be Agnostic but I still enjoy attending church at my ELCA Congregation because I enjoy the community and have enjoy performing and listening to liturgical music
As someone from a UCC church, in our beliefs section of our church website, we profess belief in Christ and the Trinity. We call ourselves Christian. UCC churches are autonomous and write their own belief statements. UCC website does talk about belief in Christ and Christ's path though.
Our first inclination to the neighbor next door to the church, who is pantheist, is to extend welcome and a smile, rather than convert him. He respects our Christ and we respect his path. How would I feel if someone tried to convert me, vs show me the way to live and let me choose?
Church is supposed to be a time and place where God's people gather to worship Him; not a social club for people to get the newest gossip on everybody.
I say that because I'm not sure of how many people understand what church is and why we have them. We seek God, and we believe that as we seek, we will find Him.
As God gets more involved in our lives, we become more like Him because as we draw closer to Him, more of His presence comes into our lives. Yes, this means change.
As the Holy Spirit comes into our lives, amazing things will happen. Where we were weak, powerless, indecisive, clueless, and much more, God replaces those things with strength, power, certainty, and wisdom, and much more.
This is a taste of what God has to offer. Having church without God is TOTALLY pointless.
Having gone there for years because it was the only church around, this response is totally true. I just watched their confirmation TH-cam video where a young teen described his daily kabbalistic prayer routine. When you live in remote and largely non-Christian areas, you take what you can get.
Too many people make the mistake of looking for the belief system they prefer, rather than looking for the truth, even if it's uncomfortable.
Truth is whatever the majority of the citizens in your country/area. Truth is also what your kind and loving parents taught you to believe. If your parents were aholes and you go bouncing around in foster care (like I did) you search until something makes sense to you. At 73 I've dived deep into Judaism, the Bahai, Islam, Sufism, Christianity (actually Paul) and Catholicism. All had good points and stuff I didn't like. Christians ticked me off the most. They expected me to suspend my problems with scripture and be a Christain anyway. I wasn't there when any of the books were written. Therefore, I think none are infallible. Uncomfortable is not my thing...and I don't think Jesus himself pushed that concept. I choose to be a Unitarian Universalist
When I saw the title of this video, for a split second I thought you had changed the name of your channel to Atheist Church LOL
The problem with that quote is, a lot of times, today, saying “hey I’m Christian you should come to church with Me” seems to preach and just turns them away, I’ve found them just knowing you’re Christian and being kind, showing a good image for Christian people, converts them more often
I agree- I experienced it myself. I do think it's fine to invite people to go to church with you (though "should" isn't the word I would use!) if you have known them for some time. I invited my best friend to come to my church, they're going this weekend :)
You present The Gospel, you act in a way that draws people to Christ. But you cannot force people to change that is the power of the Holy Spirit to convert..
Nor do you affirm their sinful nature.
There's a difference between telling someone they should change and forcing them to change
If the gospel is preached, an atheist will not feel comfortable.
@@shan3671 Comfortability is not what we should aim for. What matters is whether they receive the word properly or not, not whether they are "comfortable" or not.
Yes, but if you don't want people to change, are you truly acting in love?
"Want's a church that affirms that too". Right there is the problem. She want's to go to a church that only tells her the things she wants to hear.
To be fair, don’t most church-goers want that?
Considering the majority of churches in the United States are disgustingly hostile to other people it's no wonder many are straight-up afraid to go to church unless they explicitly affirm. You're misguided if you think that you don't do the exact same thing with your own congregation.
@@halaagmod8948 That is the biggest problem in church today
Yeah. While a church should be fully welcoming, it should also be aiming people to better themselves. And bettering oneself is partly about non-affirmation of your present state.
The "Church of Anything Goes"
i love your videos! would you be willing to make one about sedevacantist Catholics?
SSPX Crisis in the Church series is great! The one about validity of Novus Ordo Priest Ordinations really clarified the Old Rite vs New Rite dilemma. The really lay it out in detail.
You do a great job staying objective! I’m impressed.
WOW!!
Atheist: “I want to feel better about life and death but I don’t want to change anything in my life.”
UCC member: “No problem, Christ does not want you to change but you can change him to fit you. We don’t believe the Bible either.”
hahaha. nice one, bigot. you know you're going to the islamic hell, right? curb your delusion my friend.
we should never change Jesus into what we want Him to be.
Hahaha ya pretty much
@@neocyte85 what? Lol
@@neocyte85 By saying "bigot" in a conservative Christian comments section, you have already embarrassed yourself. By taking Islam seriously, you have doubly embarrassed yourself. You need to acquire some self-awareness.
The church doesn’t change anyone, the Holy Spirit does.
Churches devoid of Holy Spirit are not really churches are they.
Amen so true!
@@KGBos Then there’s no such thing as churches, because mag- I mean the Holy Spirit doesn’t exist, it’s just make-believe.
Protestant churches don’t change anyone, because the holy Spirt isn’t in them. Their divorce rates are enough to prove that.
@@Silver77cyn at least be original if youre gonna come to a christian comment section and talk down on them
Seems to me many people search more of a social experience rather than a religious one, especially in the nature of low-church american churches, in contrast to more liturgical ones, where the focus is put more in ritual.
So both have the potential to ignore the reason they are there =/
@@XSquibX The reason of a liturgical act is ritualistic in itself, I don't know how it could ignore the reason of the ritual when the ritual in itself is the reason of church gathering.
@@adrian7856 You said many in the low church look to socialize instead of to God and many in the high church look to ritual instead of to God.
What I'm saying is, both miss the mark if they aren't focused on God, salvation and His plans for the church, but instead are looking to socializing or ritual.
Socializing is important as we are meant to fellowship, but it's not the goal. tradition can be positive too. Many liturgies are very theologically rich and shouldn't be instantly dismissed by the low church. The issue is a focus on those traditional things as the end goal, just as the socializing.. A relationship with God, sanctification and being a testimony to the world is meant to be the goal..
@@XSquibX I can’t think of how Christian liturgy, which is exclusively Eucharistical, can possibly not be focused on God.
@@XSquibX certainly yes they both have that potential, all churches have that potential. I would say that potential is much lower in a ritually based congregation than a socially based congregation.
Doesn't it rather depend what she meant by "pressured"?
It could mean *encourages them to change, but does not use coercive tactics", rather than "does not encourage them to change".
Besides UCC there's the Bar. Alcoholics are never pressured to change at the bar.
In the church I’ve been attending and am thinking about membership, you can attend as a member of any religion or no religion, you must be an small case orthodox Christian to be a member, and you must agree with the Westminster Confession and the Westminster Shorter and Larger Catechisms to be an elder (whether that be a teaching elder/pastor or a ruling elder) or a deacon.
Thanks for being respectful despite disagreeing with these churches on some things. Can't say the same for the comments section, oy...
What I don't understand is people who try and build a religion of their liking. If you're going to be Christian, then your core beliefs should be pretty clear. If you're going to disbelieve in many core elements of the faith, then why pretend you're still a Christian? It doesn't make sense.
They're ideologues, that's all they are.
Branding...
It is a religious-like social club. The Scientologists have shown the tax benefits.
Very interesting reporting. Thanks for taking the time to dive into some strange waters.
Atheists, agnostics, and the full spectrum of doubters are pretty much accepted at most synagogues. We are more concerned with deeds than thought, following required mitzvot and avoiding prohibited ones. But think what you want and proselytizing is one of our anathemas.
There are actual atheist churches out there. In Houston Texas there is an organized atheist church called the Oasis.
Is it actively atheist, or do they simply not have any doctrine?
@@sarah2.017 It is a secular church.
wow. i didn't believe it until I googled it (it took several attempts because there seem to be a lot of churches called Oasis in Texas!)
"Houston Oasis is a secular community that meets weekly on Sunday mornings to enjoy fascinating talks, live music, and conversation." so it seems to be actively positioning itself as an atheist parody of a church.
And, yes, they do seem to have doctrine ,,,
@@chilternsroamer872 Some years back, I heard a story on NPR about "Church of Brunch", a secular gathering of people who would sing positive non-religious songs, do inspirational non-religious readings, and then have a potluck afterwards. Many of the attendees were people who were spiritual but had no specific belief, and wanted a gathering of like-minded people and found it in this.
@@sarah2.017 I learn more with every day that passes (shakes head).
I'm thinking of joining the Episcopal Church. I'm "intellectually irreligious" but have an extremely strong psychological draw towards religion, particularly Christianity and its art and rituals. I'm very fond of the ornate, formalistic style of e.g. Roman Catholicism (giant cathedrals, hyper-elaborate art, very formal and serious ritual, ancient hymns etc.), and I think Anglicanism, Episcopal Church in particular, offers a good balance between that and being intellectually compatible with a rational scientific worldview in a Kierkegaardian or Wittgensteinian sense. I feel like UU and similar things are too broad and informal and unstructured for me, and some of the others in this video like the Sunday Assembly strike me as nothing more than a general discussion group with none of the meaningful functions of religion or a Church. Any thoughts?
How about instead of finding a church that fits your desires, you find out who the God of the Bible actually is, and find a place that takes him seriously for who he actually is?
Outstanding video, well done and informative!!
Wait. They said 'We don't do supernatural but won't tell you you're wrong if you do' but just two sentences ago they said 'we come from nothing and go to nothing.' Um.
“Most people who think they have rejected God have really only rejected a caricature of him.” - Rich Hannon
When I was a small boy - and for the next forty years - my mother often used the phrase, “the honest in heart”, to express her belief that she would meet people in heaven who didn’t share all of her religious beliefs.
Another phrase that conveys a similar attitude is, “safe to save”. I like to combine those phrases. People who, in their inmost hearts, are true and honest are safe to save, i.e. less likely to disturb the tranquility of heaven than religious zealots who think they should tell everyone else what to believe and what to do and not do.
Our dad told my siblings and me about the doctrines he had been taught in catechism classes when he was a boy. He never rejected all of those doctrines but he was careful to explain his reasons for rejecting some of them. AND he never taught us to hate the people who believe and teach the doctrines he rejected. Our parents believed in religious liberty for everyone - not just the people with whom they agreed.
Hopefully, my siblings and I are likewise willing to consider as candidates for heaven people who believe doctrines we have rejected. Please don’t take the following list of doctrines I have rejected as a way to decide who is truly Christian and who is not.
Our parents read Bible stories to us an average of five or six times per week until we could read them for ourselves. Then they encouraged us to read our Bibles for ourselves AND they asked us questions about the stories to make sure we understood the stories. Sometimes they asked us to tell them the stories - and to paraphrase any parts of the stories we hadn’t memorized.
By the time each of us was ten, we had memorized more than 150 Bible passages, at least one quarter of which were from the Hebrew Bible.
When I was about ten, I realized that one of the reasons our parents interpreted the Bible differently than the majority of our neighbors did was because most of our neighbors didn’t read their Bibles very much except on Sundays and the stories they were hearing from the pulpit were almost entirely from the Gospels and the Epistles. Neither of our parents were Hebrew but it seemed to me that, as a result of reading and studying the Hebrew Bible more than our neighbors did, our parents, my siblings and I were more inclined to identify as children of Israel (Jacob) than most of our neighbors did.
One of the first doctrines I rejected was the doctrine that laity should depend on clergy to interpret the Bible for us.
Because I believed the death of Jesus on Calvary is all-sufficient for the redemption of our planet and Adam’s rebellious race and that the sacrifice of Jesus is never to be repeated or supplemented in any way, I rejected the sacrifice of the mass. Before I was in my teens, I rejected the doctrine that priests on Earth can turn bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus. I also rejected the doctrine that Christians need the intercession of priests on Earth or saints in heaven.
I considered my parents' religion to be personal - not institutional - and to be based on the Bible rather than on traditions. Our parents read stories to us about the protestant reformation and bought books for us about Martin Luther and John Wesley. We were taught to admire the reformers but not to idolize them.
How many doctrines do you consider to be both Christian and important?
Why insist that people subscribe to any other doctrines than those?
The problem with a creed is that if a person is told he dare not question the creed, that requires that he turn off part of his brain.
It is no mystery to me that an explosion of innovation in many fields of endeavor followed hard on the heels of the radical and heretical doctrine that humans don’t need to burn at the stake anyone who questions religious dogma.
Many people’s definition of faith is believing something for which there is insufficient evidence - or none. (Or, as Archie Bunker once said, “Faith is believing something nobody in his right mind would.)
Well, I have a suggestion. How about if we, as a society (U.S.A.), discourage that definition of faith in favor of the one in Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the evidence...of things not seen.
Hey, I go with your bottom line. Faith is the evidence of things not seen. Though I am a Unitarian, I believe there is some kind of power mainly because I believe there was a big bang but something or some chemicals created that and if it is simply chemicals something created them. Whether that power has a deep focus on just the people of earth (forget plants animals sea creatures and bugs) or the USA in particular beats me. I know that I don't know, and I know no one else does either.
"Self-described domestic goddess" impressed you can read some of these things with a straight face
As someone looking for a church I appreciate all the good recommendations here from your video, thanks!
ACNA - Anglican Church In North America is in the US and Canada and a few other places. There are also other excellent Anglican churches around the world. Let me know if you want more info.
The oldest Church is the only true Church; so visit your local Orthodox Church and speak to the priest.
@@Troy-Moses the Orthodox Church is not the oldest church.
@@jack-kz3qn What is?
@@Troy-Moses You mean the Oriental Orthodox Churches?
The Apostle Paul visited a town like that. He saw it worshipped hundreds of gods and one idol dedicated to “the unknown god”. I guess Paul visited a UU or UCC town. However, he used the opportunity as he stood beside the unknown god statue to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I would like to talk to someone that goes to one of these "churches" that is full of atheists and people who claim other religions. What are they getting out of these places? The theology would have to be dead if you have consistent substantial non-Christian attendance. Why bother showing up?
maybe they like the social aspects. tbh, quite a few denominations are pretty close to "Sunday social clubs" anyway.
Well, theology isn't the sole purpose of church, or the sole value of religion. Certainly it's important - at least for the believer in any faith - but those spaces where believers gather are more than just places where someone says, "I think what you think!" and you go, "Me too!"
Those sorts of spaces can also offer a sense of community. They can foster kinship between otherwise distant peoples. And, regardless of whether you believe that the stories happened or not, the contents of the Bible - or really any religious book - can still offer comfort and moral guidance, just like any great work of art, and that can be greatly enhanced by sharing this value with others.
So while an athiest may not believe a god - or the God - is literally answering their prayers, that doesn't mean the Bible, or the community surrounding, instantly loses any and all value. Far from it, and I think that's a beautiful thing that the message can reach beyond its immediate demographic.
Could be they have a need for God but cannot articulate it
Attend one of their services. It's about loving your neighbor. Accepting people instead of judging them is much more Christ-like than telling people they're going to hell all day. "They will know we are Christians by our love."
@@jfletcher2357 If that is accurate and that's all these churches preach, then yes the theology is dead. As others have pointed out, theology is not the only aspect to a church. Not even the only important one. But it is an important one, for certain. I would argue that it's so important that a church that doesn't properly preach the gospel cannot properly be called "Christian" or any of the denominations therein. Which is probably why many of the suggestions this person received reference universalism in their names.
Thank you for this true journalistic objectivity. 💚 Patient, welcoming love is transformative; guilt & coercion are the tactics of cults.
Amem
Any church that isn’t pressuring/encouraging you towards Christ and away from the darkness isn’t doing it’s God-given job.
Also, this video is great because it’s a giant list of churches to avoid.
Yup
Agree
Spoken like someone who has never been in any of those communities. Why makes you so sure that you can’t be mistaken?
@@Nsaf_UKR because it's NWO one world religion crap
@@Nsaf_UKR I don’t even want to go to a church that doesn’t make CHRISTIANS change, let alone atheists.
as a Catholic, this is so funny to watch
I’ve been to several Catholic churches as well as what’s the weather imaginations.
I don’t think I ever felt any pressure to convert. I’m not a big deal I’m from a different religion so that is refreshing. I do think that some communities are not likely to push for my mother.
I personally think that God expects us to show up and he will do the rest.
@@leekshikapinnamneni4835 👍 what religion are you friend?
Good video as always. Seems that some of the commenters miss understand the reasons behind and purpose of such churches. Might make an interesting video to talk more about the topic. Keep up the great work
This, I don’t understand why you would be against the existence of these churches? I think they are perfectly reasonable. And I believe that many people in such churches have put more thought into matters like Religion then the people hating in this comment section.
@@justwitti 100% agree
@@justwitti because fear-mongering is a easier way to get followers... and open wallets
@@justwitti Yes!
I'm surprised on the Baptist congregations. I expected a lot of Unitarian Universalists and ELCA on this list. Also, due to a notoriously heretical ELCA congregation, I picture something else every time you say, "her church."
Fascinating. I dig data and deep thoughts and I like your videos. I'm not a Christian, I used to be and often pondered on denominational thoughts. Cool stuff
A Church without Christ is just a social club.
Nice profile picture
It is a place to congregate, meditate, and focus on being a better person. How is that any functionally different?
@@404Dannyboy Cool place, but still not a "church" without the numen.
@@josephanglada4785 If you don't believe in the spirit it is precisely the same.
404Dannyboy the word Church by definition is Christian in nature. Church is not a catch all term for religious or spiritual community.
I have a friend who is a retired United Church of Canada minister (he still preaches at the United Church here on our little Island just off Vancouver Island). We have coffee together on occasion. One day I read that the Church had just ordained and atheist minister-a woman, at that-so I asked him his opinion. Now, he’s probably what many Christians would call ‘liberal’-but, as he said about atheist preachers: “That’s where I draw the line!” Nevertheless, he invites me to hear him preach even though I myself am an atheist.
Not Gonna Lie From The Title And Thumbnail, I Kinda Thought This Video Was A Meme Before I Clicked, As I Didn't Know The Channel, But I'm Not Disappointed, This Was All In All Quite Interesting.
"Is there a local group of AA members I can join where I dont have to quit drinking but can still get the sober tokens?"
More, "Is there an AA where I don't have to have Christian dogma smashed in my face but can still quit drinking and get the sober tokens?"
This a fantastic list of churches I’ll never set foot in.
My thoughts exactly, lol. My comment was on how happy I was my church wasn't on that list.
The sum of inclusivity in Church is really simple: Come as you are, go out as Christ's. If a Church fails in either regard by refusing to allow those who are seeking God in, or refusing to fulfil the Great Commission: they fail the Great Commandment and aren't Christian whatsoever.
Pushing someone to convert, isn't fulfilling the great commission. 1 Corinthians 13 says that love is not insistent on its own way.
@@mysticheathen3455 correct: Divine love doesn't push it's own way. It pushes God's way.
What is God's way?
Jesus.
What does Jesus command of us?
To love the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul, and strength; then love others as we would love ourselves (the whole of the Bible really shows us how to do this considering that the Great Commandment is the fulfillment of the whole law).
He also explicitly commands us to make Disciples of all nations: Baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: teaching them to obey Christ. We are explicitly commanded to seek the conversion of all.
If you disbelieve this, consider that the Disciples then went on to do exactly that: convert others to Christ and grow in Him.
To refuse to desire others to become brothers and sisters in the faith is unloving: of both God and others.
@@christianwalton7080 no, you missed the point and what that passage means. Love is God's way, it's telling us to not push and be insistent.
@@christianwalton7080 he also says to not force it.
@@mysticheathen3455 No one can force anyone to believe anything. But Christians must preach the message to the lost. It's then up to the lost to decide if they want to change their status to "found."
I've spoken to God and I asked Him:
-what do you think about Atheists? Why don't you "eliminate" them?
and He answered:
-why should I? They're the only ones who aren't stealing my job!
@@foghornleghorn262 it's true for some of them
Can you do a video comparing Independent Baptists with Southern Baptists?I am SBC myself and am curious of the differences other than independent Baptists not belong to a convention. Thank you!
Got you covered: th-cam.com/video/VIgFpRECc78/w-d-xo.html
I'm inclined to disagree with the congregations that feel absolutely no compulsion to present a gospel that has implications for the Life to Come. Paul was quite right in saying that the Christian movement was rather pointless without the hope of the resurrection from the dead as found in Jesus Christ. At the same time, there's a tendency to overvalue human persuasive power when it comes to the gospel message. We have a responsibility to proclaim the message, but the convincing is done on the inside by the Spirit of God. Anyone who is swayed by a silver tongue is unlikely to have actual Christian faith. Ergo, if these churches at least bother to recite the creeds and to provide gospel-centered liturgical readings, then maybe they can still express an eternal hope to the nonbelievers despite their phobia of overt proselytizing.
Amen.
That old quote from Penn Gilette is... perhaps a sweet indulgence, but entirely unrelatable anecdote. I would never take it as a shared opinion.
I would love for you to do a video on The Way International
Women pastor, women pastor, gay pastor, women pastor, married to trans pastor, women pastor
As an atheist and partly due to the influence of this channel as well as the direction and trend of American religious values my view on church attendance is evolving. It is becoming quite clear that it is of vital importance that atheist attend religious observances. As I've said before the biggest problem with Islam is there's not enough atheist. We act as a limiting factor on extremism. If you want a bad person to do something good there's a number of ways to incentivize him, but if you want a good person to do something bad religion is one of the most effective ways. Basically religion is too important to leave to the believer.
I went to a church that was started by a church-of-christ prison-ministry and that became 'Sabbatarian' (but mostly just because they met on Saturdays :0)) ) and--tho every announcement & song & reading & prayer etc. was "in the name of Jesus, God is Good, Amen-Amen-Amen, and GOD IS GREAT!"--there were a few atheists & Buddhists etc. who were considered "members" just as much as the Christians there.
Can you do UPLCII. United Pentecostal local churches international Inc.
This guy is so objective and disinterested. That's quite a talent!
I am impressed by your proper use of the word "disinterested". So many don't distinguish that from "uninterested", which is sad.
And then you start thinking really weird supernatural fantasies such as "Would it be possible to solder 2 wires in a contracting Universe?"
I'd like to see more videos about atheists and agnostics.
Interesting video! Thanks for sharing 👍 😊
Confessional Lutherans don't pressure anybody. We preach law and gospel and let the Holy Ghost do His work on unbelievers. If an atheist wants to come to my church and sit and listen to the sermon and liturgy, that would be fine with me. He could come for 20 years and just as long as he didn't do anything crazy or take communion, he would be welcome. Of course, we would ask him if he were interested in an inquirers class or membership, but if they said no that would be fine. He could even Chow down to his heart's content on potluck dinners made by nice old German women. We would hope that perhaps some day the atheist would stop resisting the Holy Spirit. I can't see how a radical secularists would enjoy what we do but his presence wouldn't bother us in the least.
Why would an atheist even go to Church?
Probably for the community aspect.
My immediate thought was Unitarian Universalist.
2:32 "this movement"... *what* movement? ISTM that a movement without a (solid) creed isn't much of a movement.
This guy has to be a news reporter
Fascinating cover of atheist-tolerant churches and spiritual communities! Looking forward to exploring these congregations!
All churches will allow in an atheist, everyone is welcome. However, you're expected to listen of course
@@CHURCHISAWESUM Being expected to uncritically swallow the doctrine of the church you're attending is not ""toleration"", my dear sir.
I am neither Christian nor Atheist, but I am glad that there are churches out there that offer the religious experience without having to conform to doctrinal beliefs.
May I ask what you are if you're not a Christian or an atheist?
@@lukesalazar9283 I studied various religions at a young age and came to my own conclusions on the matter. The closest religious concept you could lump me in with would be pantheist.
people in these comments are all like "this is bad bc they're conforming to man instead of god" or whatever bullshit, and honestly to me this is such a breath of fresh air knowing there are christians and churches who won't try to convert me the instant i say i'm not christian if i go in and try to make it a good experience regardless. one minute step into a generally more welcoming society, obviously something the evangelicals and the like in these comments have never been too excited about.
@@abaddon2148 I agree, but being intolerant of intolerant people doesn't really work as well. Let them have their religions, we'll practice our own.
I’m pretty sure the most doctrinally rigid Christian Churches like Catholicism and Orthodoxy allow atheists to attend liturgy, in fact in those Churches the existence of a congregation during the liturgy is unnecessary for the liturgy to take place.
I think it's been true for a long time that there are are plenty of non-believers who go to church for comfort and well-being, not worship.
Can you do one on Unitarian Universalism pls
My best reason to go to a church is music. The best church has the best music.
Isn't Unitarian Universalist also welcomng of all?
That's not really even a "Christian" church.
He did make mention that it was a majority of the responses.
I mentored a couple where the man was an agnostic. We attempted to live out our faith and not have us change him. the spirit led him to ask questions. He is now a follower and believer. Jesus changes people, you have to allow yourself to get around people who don't think like you. If your witness is hateful and exclusionary, I've seen the poor rejected from Sunday school, it's worthless. Love and serve your neighbor, wear a mask and get vaccinated. Live the reputation of Christ.
Christ had no reputation….
Amen! People who feel the Spirit can choose to follow. We only need show the way through our actions and to love them. Peace!
Praise the mighty vax, by the word of our lord Dr Fauci! Awomen!
Penn is kinda a Chad ngl. He’s got a pretty decent attitude to religion despite being an atheist.
There are atheist megachurches. They wouldn't pressure atheists to change. It answers her question. She can sing "shout to the void all the Earth let us sing, power and majesty praise to nothing" just ask Tim Hawkins.
Sorry to say it, but Penn Jillette is just wrong about the proselytizing. His truck analogy doesn't work. If a truck were about to hit an unaware person, you could tackle them because that would actually succeed in saving their life, no matter how much it upsets them. Plus, you can actually see how close the truck is, so you know exactly how much time you have left to try respectful reasoning before you have no choice but to tackle.
On the other hand, if hell were real, and atheists just don't know it, proselytizing will not succeed in "saving" them; it will only drive them away. Besides, if they are young and healthy, you can expect them to have a few more decades before going to hell, not just a few seconds, like with the truck. If you are a believer, worried about an atheist going to hell, your best strategy is to not pressure them and keep them close, where at least you can hope some day they will "come around."
The “truck” is always there: truck, car, bus, airplane, cancer, covid, pneumonia, choking, bullet, knife, baseball bat, falling, etc…
People die every day from a myriad of reason; regardless of age; from infant to well aged yet appearing healthy.
Climatologist feel a yearning to convert every living being to their way of thinking. Ignoring the science I was taught in school, that the earth goes through warming and cooling cycles. One volcanic eruption could plunge the earth in another ice age.
Virologist want to get everyone vaccinated; even though, other than some major issues, most people could live a healthy productive life without ever receiving one injection.
With just these two examples in mind; why wouldn’t someone that considers themselves to be a Christian not tell others there is a heaven and a hell? And the choice has to be made before death; which could happen any second.
All analogies break down at some point. I think his main point was that he is not offended by Christians trying to proselytize him, because it has meaning for them. It's actually incredibly gracious compared to most atheists.
Our lives are short. You never know when the truck hits
People say "God loves the sinner but hates the sin!" Yet the Bibles talks about God hating all who do wrong: Psa. 5:5-"...you hate ALL that do wrong." 34:16- "The Face of the Lord is against THOSE who do evil." Prov. 28:9- "If anyone turns a deaf ear to the law, even his PRAYERS are detestable!" And one of my favorites, 2 Chron. 19:2- "Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, the wrath of the Lord is upon you!" And, if you want a New Testament scripture, John 9:31- "We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does His will."
I always respected Penn for his magic and politics, but to know that even as an Atheist he has beliefs that are more "hardline" than many Christians is reaffirming
It isn't for man to "pressure" you to change, that is the power of the Holy Spirit. It is the responsibility of Christians to tell you the truth of your predicament and the good news of salvation. After that, it is up to each person to believe or disbelieve the message, this is the pinnacle of human free will.
I want to see a school where students aren't pressured to learn, or a restaurant where they don't serve food
If your church has no value besides pushing conversion then it has no value.
@@404Dannyboy My Church helps in more ways than preaching conversion, but I gotta say, not going to Hell is pretty valuable to me.
What a wonderful idea! A school where students aren't pressured to learn sounds like a wonderful thing and just what our society is in need of right now. Students could actually focus on topics that matter to them and the world would be a much better place for it. Thank you for making this great suggestion
@@phogeysquatch Then you are aware that non theistic churches can serve a good purpose. Not everyone thinks God is vile enough to send his creations to hell for eternity for simply not believing in him.
@@404Dannyboy you don't go to hell for not believing in him you go to hell because you didn't turn from your sin and trusted in Christ to save you from said place of torment
Going to church without changing is like going to the gym without lifting weights.
Yes, lifting weights sucks and you're sore the day after, but if you keep at it you'll be in great shape.
The Unitarian Universalist congregation in my town straight up forced the local Methodist Church from their own building.
Community of Christ (formerly the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) is that way as well. I speak as a former member.
Sunday Assembly member here
I'm an atheist, but affiliate with a Unitarian Universalist congregation--they know I'm an atheist and they are fine with that. Its a refreshing change from growing up in the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Lots of churches are fine with that. I dated a few religious girls, catholic, orthodox, and unitarian, and attended church with them as an atheist with nary a complaint from anyone. It is mostly only the hardcore evangelicals and baptists that have seizures over atheists in their presence.
I agree with the saving someone from a truck analogy. Who cares if its socially awkward, we must save our friends
Personally I wonder if you would applies this standard to more immediate threats to someones being, like obesity or drug abuse. We should let people express their own personal autonomy.
@@mememan9890 the purpose of the church is to spread the good news, and if this is presented in a very non personal way, without teaching the ignorant that THEY are saved, that message isnt conveyed very well
@@cheez-itman2784 I mean in the context of a church or a religious service I would understand, I was referring to more casual occurrences. Like going through a grocery store and having some dude tell me I need to be saved or I am saved.
@@mememan9890 well while I wouldnt be opposed to that, I understand why people dont bother strangers at the store lol. I definately don't
Have these people never heard of dive bars?
Once again, Quakers
How do I find out if one is close?
Quakers are GOAT
Quakers are definitely my favorite. A religion where we're all equal? That's my jam.
@@christinacody5845 a Quaker meeting? Google is useful for that. If you're in the USA, Friends General Conference is a good place to look for meetings. If you're in the UK, Quaker . org if you're in Australia, QuakersAustralia . org . au
What's the point???