Liberal vs Conservative Christians explained

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ต.ค. 2024

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  • @JakCorn
    @JakCorn 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2237

    If people read the Holy Bible in full context or even in general this would eliminate many problems within the faith. 💯

    • @Ex_christian
      @Ex_christian 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +184

      Ya, reading the Bible made me Atheist! If any in the Christian cult read the Bible, we wouldn’t have the issues we have today……

    • @pedroguimaraes6094
      @pedroguimaraes6094 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +159

      ​@Ex_christianAm As Karl Barth explained, since you are not saved, you just read the Human aspect of the Bible, but the Hole Spirit did not revealed the Divine aspect.

    • @bankruptwizard
      @bankruptwizard 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +351

      ​@@Ex_christianthis name and account looks like it was made by reddit atheists.

    • @BrandonBDN
      @BrandonBDN 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Ex_christianoh a typical troll, go back to your bridge

    • @Ex_christian
      @Ex_christian 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

      @@pedroguimaraes6094 there is no Devine aspect. That’s why you need faith, faith in make believe, because none of it is real. Otherwise, if it is real and there is a god, he’s a dick!

  • @rnhmbover63
    @rnhmbover63 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3621

    im crying the conservative drawing actually looks like redeemed zoomer

    • @DruckerYTA
      @DruckerYTA 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +52

      Lol

    • @Spicychiliboi_21
      @Spicychiliboi_21 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

      Nahh Fr

    • @dimitrimolotovvyacheslav4604
      @dimitrimolotovvyacheslav4604 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +147

      This drawing is literally what I think when I hear "reformed"

    • @histrocas4193
      @histrocas4193 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

      bald zoomar

    • @MuddieRain
      @MuddieRain 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      Don’t cry

  • @hiho9149
    @hiho9149 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2744

    I'm non-religious and I can't understand for the life of me why anyone on the liberal side of the spectrum would insist on calling themselves a christian. It's like drinking fanta and insisting it's orange juice.

    • @Skibidi_Fazbear
      @Skibidi_Fazbear 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +326

      Alot of them are more just culturally christian than actually christian tbh

    • @sylphid9885
      @sylphid9885 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +141

      I'm an athiest but I grew up in very religious households so I feel like I can try and explain this one
      People tend to look at religion for a guide. A way of thinking, a list of morals, a sense of community, etc. It's nice for those people to grow through those ideologies and to believe in a god and have something to work for in their lives. The reason why they may lean more to the liberal side of the spectrum may just be because believe in everything the church has to say, including the negative, may just be uncomfortable for them if they have family or people they care about who may be negatively affected by those beliefs. They could also just not know every detail that comes with being Christian and would instead of seeking salvation for themselves, use Christianity and the community behind it to create a better, more accepting world for their family, even if it may border on what is widely known in more dedicated Christian ideologies as heresy

    • @j1233191
      @j1233191 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +102

      The problem is, some people just want to be religious without feeling restricted i.e. they want to have their cake and eat it. I wouldn't take this as far as to say that any Christian who goes against their faith in minor ways isn't a real Christian (masturbation, looking at horoscope readings, greedily overeating) because there are very few people who cannot sin at all and some sins are clearly much worse than others (murder, theft, torture), but if someone's going to the point of declaring that a particular act isn't a sin at all then to me, that reflects a lack of integrity on their part. Those kinds of people need to properly reflect on why they feel bad about some aspect of their own faith, then abandon it if they can't resolve their cognitive dissonance. However, I accept that might not be possible in very conservative environments where people would be treated as outcasts or even persecuted if they did that.

    • @thebarbaryghostsf
      @thebarbaryghostsf 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +88

      @@j1233191 The biggest one for me, is all of the interpretations on gender identity and especially sexuality... they just feel so wrong. How can a loving God judge his creations for loving each other, regardless of their gender identity or orientation? I definitely don't believe God would ever condone any destructive or non-consensual, nor overtly lustful activity (the very reasons for the destruction of S&G). I just have a really hard time believing that they would condone consensual love. I want to ask the really conservative people how they think God would interpret an A-sexual, same sex couple? Because technically that wouldn't be violating any scripture I can think of, since there is zero sexual interaction going on there. So is that still going against God's rules?

    • @j1233191
      @j1233191 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​​@@thebarbaryghostsf You kind of seem like one of the stage 3 progressives that RZ talked about - I'll go through your points one by one. 1) There are different kinds of things that we English speakers call "love", love is a very vague term in our language. It could refer to familial love, friendly love, compassionate love (i.e. loving God and your neighbour as yourself) and erotic passion (performing sexual acts on someone or something.) Would it make sense to say that a rapist or a stalker fuelled with erotic passion "loves" their target? No, and it most certainly wouldn't make sense to say that a paedophile or a zoophile "loves" children or animals either. The typical prostitute user doesn't really "love" the one whose services they're using, and I think we can agree on all those things. Compassionate love is vastly more important than any other kind of love in God's eyes, Jesus did imply that people must prefer him to even their own parents or siblings. 2) The Sodomites weren't simply overly lustful - they did engage in a variety of sins as listed by a variety of Biblical writers, but it was mentioned by Jude in the New Testament that they "practiced unnatural vice". Considering that lying with a man as with a woman is spoken of as being an abomination in the Pentateuch and the early Christians were originally a Jewish sect, it's obvious what this is a reference to. Read Romans 1:26-27 for a more explicit description of homosexuality as being unnatural. 3) The idea of anything being OK if it's consensual is moral minimalism. It's a secular, intention-based utilitarian idea that goes directly against the deontological, act-based ethics of Christianity that seek to promote moral maximalism - Jesus himself said "Be perfect, just as your Heavenly Father is perfect". Using prostitutes and having casual sex can also be consensual, but I doubt you'd agree so passionately with those specific things, all because they're not emotionally charged issues or seen as things to be positively affirmed (except in the ultra-liberal Netherlands, but that's another story...) in the way that LGBT matters are. 4) If a same sex couple doesn't actually engage in sex, why are they even in a relationship to begin with? What's the point of forming that kind of bond with someone if you're not going to consummate it? "Asexual" and "same sex couple" are mutually contradictory, if they're not engaging in erotic activities including kissing, then they'd be better off staying single and relating to each other as just friends. St Paul himself said that husbands and wives must only abstain from sex for limited amounts of time in case the devil exploits their lack of self-control and he also said that if anyone burns with lust, they should marry. So it's clear from this that you can't cleanly separate sex from romantic relationships in general. In conclusion, I'd say that you need to consider whether you would give in and say that prostitution or casual sex or other kinds of sexual sins aren't sins or at least aren't that bad if the people engaging in them had become increasingly influential, prominent and accepted in the same way that people who have sex with the same sex did. If you say "no", then you're being a hypocrite and not giving all people who engage in consensual sex the same treatment. If you say "yes", then like RZ pointed out, you're just becoming increasingly distant from essential Christian doctrine like progressives in general.

  • @zh2obuffalo
    @zh2obuffalo 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +381

    I disagree with the notion that those on the liberal side are likely to become more liberal. Rather, I would tie it to how firmly one is getting their beliefs from scripture. For example, those who believe women should be leading churches because things "should be fair", or because "we're in the 21st century, come on already", might be likely to continue to slide. However, those who think that Paul's passages on women in ministry are largely localized for a specific context and that a more general Biblical context seems to elevate women into a position that allows for church leadership are still basing their views on scripture and are unlikely to stray away from scripture, because in their view they never had strayed in the first place.
    Great video as always though.

    • @DanielChannel89
      @DanielChannel89 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +47

      Yes. This is a good way of putting it. There are numerous other ideas that would fall into this video's first three levels of "progressive" Christianity that can also be very much based on a Biblical foundation. I think Redeemed Zoomer, being a bit more on the conservative side, may not be as aware of how that can be the case for some things.

    • @Tortellobello45
      @Tortellobello45 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      This video is conservative bullshit

    • @lukeallen2894
      @lukeallen2894 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      generally agree. I grew up in a church with a woman pastor, and we have always been a literal Bible believing creationist church. we found positions in scripture to match these positions from the get-go, not as an excuse to make things more fair.

    • @psychiatricallyinclined
      @psychiatricallyinclined 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

      Women should not be pastors, priests, or leading churches. Timothy 2:12 is clear. Picking and choosing what we bring forward into modern times subverts that the Bible is the infallible Word of God. When we try manipulating it with mental gymnastics, we enter into disobedience and, yes, even heresy.
      The Bible claims to be infallible in 2 Peter 1:19, “We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable.” Peter continues with a description of how Scripture came to be: “No prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit” (2 Peter 1:20-21).
      Also, we see infallibility implied in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, “All Scripture is God-breathed” and has the effect of producing servants of God who are “thoroughly equipped for every good work.” The fact that God “breathed” Scripture insures that the Bible is infallible, for God cannot breathe out error. The fact that the Bible equips God’s servants “thoroughly” for service shows that it guides us into truth, not error.

    • @DanielChannel89
      @DanielChannel89 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +29

      ​@psychiatricallyinclined I believe that you are mistaken, and reading things in the way that you do is potentially dangerous in terms of the actions it may lead one to take.
      First of all, what do you think about the Pharisees? They knew the law extremely well, and tended to take it quite literally. Yet, Jesus proved that they were interpreting things in the wrong way or with the wrong spirit on numerous occasions. Jesus Himself contradicted literal interpretations from the Torah, for example when He allowed his disciples to eat without first cleaning their hands.
      There is also reason to believe that Paul is speaking to a specific historical and geographical context when he says that women should not lead. Paul is quite egalitarian for his time, even saying that there is no difference between slave and master, male and female, etc. in the eyes of God, and telling husband and wife that they are each other's property sexually, as opposed to the man ruling the woman. It is true that it can be dangerous to interpret scripture to fit your own view, but the Bible's infallibility does not prohibit context. In fact, removing context simply to take it as it is creates many contradictions and leads to many misinterpretations.
      Some of the people whose opinions I trust the least are people who constantly insist that scripture is "clear" on issues that have caused great controversy within the church. There is usually a reason for that controversy. Sometimes conservatives have it right, and sometimes liberals do, and sometimes they are both wrong. But if it's not widely accepted, dismissing it as "clear," and claiming that the other side is just "leaning on their own understanding," suggests a lack of true consideration of the point. Which I suppose is understandable, since in your perspective, there is no reason to try to interpret anything. But I would suggest that you strongly reconsider that perspective. I wonder how many people have been needlessly driven away from the church because of it? I suspect quite a lot.

  • @gunsgalore7571
    @gunsgalore7571 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +932

    I'm not sure how well this spectrum works for certain branches of Christianity. For instance, in Catholicism you will come across some extremely theologically conservative people who in many ways are way more conservative than Protestant fundamentalists and yet they do not support YEC.

    • @leusher9024
      @leusher9024 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +24

      Sorry for asking: What is YEC?

    • @gunsgalore7571
      @gunsgalore7571 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +210

      @@leusher9024 Young-earth Creation. Basically, the Earth is roughly six thousand years old, dinosaurs lived alongside humans, etc. It's based on the assumption that that the first eleven chapters of the Book of Genesis were intended as history rather than allegory or epic.

    • @danshakuimo
      @danshakuimo 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +168

      I understand the spectrum is supposed to be a simplification but it's definitely evangelical protestant centric

    • @WaterMelon-Cat
      @WaterMelon-Cat 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Most Church Fathers took Genesis as literally and were not YEC. There is alternative ideas as to how the days were 6 literal days and the eslapsing of time between Genesis events @@gunsgalore7571

    • @danielchequer5842
      @danielchequer5842 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I mean the Big Bang was theorized by a Catholic priest

  • @shadowm2k7
    @shadowm2k7 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +738

    I was on the progressive road for a few years until i realised that i had changed & twisted scripture so much that the God i was praying to was the completely wrong one. I decided that if i am going to be a Christian, I want to do it right, starting with accepting God, wholly and completely as He has revealed to us, and not just what i want. Same with the Bible
    Ive had an absolute blast since!!! The real true God of the Bible shows UP when you let Him!!!!!

    • @Skapo
      @Skapo 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      So is your God the one who slaughtered the first born of Egypt or the one who ordered his people to enact laws that required women who were raped to be sold to their rapist? Oh! Maybe the version of God who sent literal bears to kill the children who joked about the prophet Elisha's bald head? That version is fun. Real comic book villain that one.

    • @FollowerOfChrist0708
      @FollowerOfChrist0708 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

      Absolutely! Amen!✝

    • @masond7573
      @masond7573 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      There's no place for Christianity, Islam, or other fairy tale religions in the 21st century, they hold back scientific and social progress and need to be called out for what they are - wishful thinking and delusions.

    • @Pikog777
      @Pikog777 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I vary from a 0.5 on liberal scale to a 0.5 on the conservative scale. I respect conservative beliefs, although I stop really agreeing at stage 3 conservatism because at that point it’s just denying science and more of a cult than an actual religion. For liberalism, I think stage 2 is the max I can tolerate. Anything beyond stage 3 is not true Christianity.

    • @JDB1991.
      @JDB1991. 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +67

      Amen! I haven't wore two different fabrics simultaneously in years! Plus, it saved me from a lot of guilt the other day when I was beating my slave, but I found out it's totally fine because he survived a few days. Leviticus and Exodus have opened my eyes.

  • @thomastome8396
    @thomastome8396 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +614

    I think I'm literally at 0. I'm catholic and I remember going to a Bible study and the reverend taught the class. He would talk about the deeper meaning of the Bible and the significance of repeating numbers. And I vaguely remember him saying that God creating the world in 6 days could be literal, or something different. I wish I had my notes still, but I remember him to encourage us to have an open mind about the meaning of every passage we read.

    • @torpid5092
      @torpid5092 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +47

      That’s surprising to hear because practically every Christian I’ve met, regardless of where they are on the scale, will strongly defend their point of view and always call the other objectively wrong
      I say this as a Christian, Christians never encourage you to have your own point of view.

    • @thomastome8396
      @thomastome8396 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +24

      @@torpid5092 I think it kinda helps that my mom grew up Lutheran before converting to Catholic and my grandfather a die hard Catholic didn't mind. So I kinda got a mix of Christian teaching. And the reverend of my church was just a very kind and respectful man. Again with the whole number thing as I did find some of my notes. He claimed we don't know how they measured time. So these people who lived to be 200 years old may have very well been that old or it just means something different. That's just one example. But yeah I do just kinda vibe in the middle

    • @Brook_55
      @Brook_55 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

      ​​@@torpid5092idk what kinda Christians you met but my pastor is always asking for different opinions so that we can compare and search for the right answer.
      But my pastor came to the same thing, we were discussing the possible meanings because of the verse that says 1 day to God is like 1000 years to us and 1000 years is like 1 day. We know he made it for sure, it says it right there. But we also gotta consider the fact that God isn't bound by time and he made our time possible.
      Then again, I'm pretty young and the church is small so we get more time to really discuss. Might be different in other places.

    • @Roescoe
      @Roescoe 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      "that God creating the world in 6 days could be literal, or something different." I take that view too, but I think evolution is a farce since the math is bad. I've not seen much of this view, but basically I have suspicions young earth is correct, but think the Bible doesn't demand it and "the science" can't study it.

    • @JesusisLord756
      @JesusisLord756 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Here me out, leave the Catholic Church, I know people who have went through it and it sound like almost a cult, try and build a relationship with Jesus, not just be part of a religion

  • @12Steeplechaser
    @12Steeplechaser 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +54

    The touch grass meme got me so good. Thank you again for breaking down some nuances that will help delineate certain groups of people for us.

  • @cat-kn4ft
    @cat-kn4ft 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +359

    Great video, but I feel grouping these 'levels' on a 2D scale might be a little reductive?
    For example, bringing up 'scripture denial'...Surely Christians on both sides of this scale and across denominations are capable of using bad hermeneutics to affirm their beliefs. It isn't simply "denial" because they interpret scripture on one issue or another in a way that someone else perceives is incorrect.

    • @LewisCho
      @LewisCho 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

      I think that to make a video where he can explain this spectrum and make it digestible by a wide audience, one has to take some liberties in not being so wholly encompassing of all situations.
      Beyond that, I think what he was going for is that traits in each prior step are sort of prequisite to the next, as opposed to being solely exclusive to that point on the graph.

    • @Burritobib
      @Burritobib 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      I am assuming if you get to the scripture denial part of the scale that he means you are someone who outright denies something specifically stated in the Bible, not interpreting it differently. That would be when it says do not commit adultery and a scripture denier would say that it’s fine.

    • @IONProd
      @IONProd 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I agree with your point but technically only 1 dimensional scale. A 2 dimensional scale might be a bit better

    • @jessicauba7722
      @jessicauba7722 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      It’s a bit different though. No conservative Christian would deny the authority of scripture.

    • @sambarnett6996
      @sambarnett6996 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It’s a 7 minute video, it will indeed be reductive.

  • @weaselwolf8425
    @weaselwolf8425 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +346

    To be a progressive christian is to be the lukewarm church that Jesus warned about, to be an extreme conservative christian is to serve another master over Christ. All in all are all sinners and Christ died so that we may be set free, if anything were supposed to unite to save America not fall into the bickering that makes adults look immature compared to children.
    Also dang its been a minute since Ive seen this channel. Absolutely based and informative video

    • @verskudoesthings
      @verskudoesthings 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Facts.

    • @Grokford
      @Grokford 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      I think that it's a mistake to consider zeal as a substitute for faithfulness.

    • @Uncle_Ruckus_
      @Uncle_Ruckus_ 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      To be an extreme conservative Christian means who follow the Bible word for word. The conservative isn't sinning.

    • @Grokford
      @Grokford 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

      @@Uncle_Ruckus_
      Not necessarily,
      Everyone thinks that they're interpretation is most in line with the will of God.
      And yet people disagree.
      Your following word for word might be someone else's cultural bias.
      I don't think that anyone is sinning merely by following their best understanding.
      But I do think that everyone is obligated to a certain amount of due diligence when it comes to being critical about their own beliefs and about being patient with those who disagree.

    • @Uncle_Ruckus_
      @Uncle_Ruckus_ 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Grokford you know those red sentences? Those don't change no matter how many times it's been translated. The Bible changing it's meanings is a lie atheists and anti Christians say a lot. It's now being reinterpreted because we are living in the final days in revelation. Everywhere will be deception to lead you astray from God, even in the churches.

  • @SarimFaruque
    @SarimFaruque 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +333

    The problem when we group things in binary groupings is that we focus too much on the macro of things instead of the subsets. For example, someone may believe in many progressive ideologies but may have very strict anti-abortion views in all circumstances, and vice-versa.

    • @thelordz33
      @thelordz33 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Wow, you're trying to take like .001% of a group and say "they aren't all like that." What a completely useless way to look at the world. I'm sorry, if 12 people in a group of a million are anti-abortion, the group isn't anti-abortion and it's fair to say that the group is fine with abortion.

    • @rye-ry5621
      @rye-ry5621 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I think the problem is that all ideology is fundamentally anti Christian because they are not based on scripture and the presuppositions that they make in some cases reject the idea or neglect the existence of God such as liberalism, socialism and fascism all these ideologies reject God to varing extents and so are false at their foundation hence any ideals made through them although some may align with Christian ideals are false and corrupted.

    •  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +55

      Simply because humans tend to make everything way oversimplyfied in order to decide guickly. Thinking objectively is hard

    • @TheWandererOfDreams
      @TheWandererOfDreams 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      ​@one could say, it's kimpossible.....

    • @marstothestars33
      @marstothestars33 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @TheWandererOfDreams What’s the sitch?

  • @RndmFndm103
    @RndmFndm103 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +364

    I liked the line at the end "Where would Jesus be?" A good question that lots of Christians (including myself) need to ask more often.
    Edit: Hey mom! I'm famous!

    • @ZaklogtheGreat
      @ZaklogtheGreat 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      Jesus is an ethnonationalist. St. Paul was too, for that matter.

    • @cx9082
      @cx9082 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +38

      Considering Jesus wasn't a christian at all, I would assume he would be no where on the spectrum.

    • @JemimaNta
      @JemimaNta 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@@cx9082nah he believed he was God.

    • @Aggressive_Toast13
      @Aggressive_Toast13 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      I am very sure he believed he existed.

    • @Aggressive_Toast13
      @Aggressive_Toast13 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

      How? He wanted to save everyone, treated everyone fair, and even spoke against that. Like in the parable with the Good Samaritan, or how God said to the Israelites in Leviticus they treat any foreign person well, regardless of ethnicity, because they were foreigners n Egypt. He makes a point so many times that everyone is equal because we all sin, he never mistreated someone because he was perfect. He loved all of everyone because he created them. If Jesus can't because though he was fully man, he was still fully God, and it is impossible for God to sin because it goes against his very being.

  • @maybebirb
    @maybebirb 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +747

    This was really well explained! I think I sort of place as a 1.5 degree Conservative, though this was really good at explaining everything in a non-biased way

    • @antoniofirenze
      @antoniofirenze 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      So you are going to hell?

    • @maybebirb
      @maybebirb 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +75

      @@antoniofirenze What? Do elaborate?

    • @dr.danburritoman1293
      @dr.danburritoman1293 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Agreed as like a -.5 degree progressive on this scale.

    • @jleewaters
      @jleewaters 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

      Personally I would put myself 2.5

    • @angelvargas6190
      @angelvargas6190 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@jleewaters same here.

  • @josephengel2091
    @josephengel2091 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +184

    I think this is an oversimplification. After all, I think most people would agree that non-Nicene groups such as Oneness Pentecostals, LDS, and JWs certainly aren’t theologically liberal or progressive. Heretical in their rejection of the Trinity, to be sure, but on all the other matters, they fall into either the moderate or conservative camps. There’s also the issue of mainline vs evangelical churches. While mainline congregations are generally theologically liberal and evangelical churches are generally theologically conservative, there are evangelical theologians like Rob Bell whose understanding of salvation falls firmly into the universalist camp.

    • @sparking023
      @sparking023 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      For extra accuracy, add a perpendicular axis for heretical levels I guess

    • @barnabasveliczky3647
      @barnabasveliczky3647 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Why would Pentecostals be a non-Nicene group? I can't speak for all pentecostal churches, but most of us do belive in every point of in the Nicene creed

    • @cadeshannon7066
      @cadeshannon7066 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      As an LDS person, I'm not quite sure what you mean when you mention us rejecting the Trinity. We believe in God, Jesus, and the Spirit as three separate beings. Is that uncommon in other faiths?

    • @thegoldmine4111
      @thegoldmine4111 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@barnabasveliczky3647 Oneness Pentecostals, not Pentecostals in general. Oneness is a heresy that denies the Trinity

    • @dhg247x1
      @dhg247x1 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@cadeshannon7066 The trinity is one God in three persons or permanent manifestations.

  • @GeoNoob
    @GeoNoob 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +176

    Im a muslim but im subscribed and i really enjoy learning about christianity. God bless brother

    • @JamalImran-mt2us
      @JamalImran-mt2us 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      But why

    • @markbaker311
      @markbaker311 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +44

      Praying you see the truth Geo

    • @GeoNoob
      @GeoNoob 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +48

      @@JamalImran-mt2us because i seek knowledge

    • @elKarlo
      @elKarlo 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      May the Lord bless you and may He open your eyes to the truth.

    • @elKarlo
      @elKarlo 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      May the Lord bless you and may He open your eyes to the truth.

  • @AzaGameplay
    @AzaGameplay 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +398

    If people actually listened to the freakin book they'd all be conservative. God doesn't just change things because you got progressive lmao

    • @cperbro3797
      @cperbro3797 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +94

      This is difficult to agree with because of things like women’s suffrage and civil rights in the church. Things have changed and the majority of conservatives now agree that those things are good, but back years ago, many conservative Christians didn’t. Progressivism has moved its way through conservatives too

    • @zanetrively1891
      @zanetrively1891 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +79

      Being “conservative” is too dependent on the culture, modern Christianity is practiced much differently than that of the Christianity following Jesus. Maybe the book never changed but your interpretation of the book was given to you by a cultural context that is radically different to that of other eras of history. For instance the acceptance of racism in the mainstream American church to the strong convictions opposing racism in modern day America in the mainstream church. Bottom line being culturally conservative doesn’t mean you defend the bible more closely, just a particular cultural perspective and context of the bible. This is evidenced by proliferation of denominations all claiming to be “biblical”.

    • @daryncollins7640
      @daryncollins7640 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +39

      have you heard of the entirety of the bible? like between new testament and old testament almost everything changed significantly

    • @Grokford
      @Grokford 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +22

      Well many "progressive" interpretations are not actually changes to the Bible but are in response to a more accurate reading of the Bible in historical context or in some cases correcting mistranslations.
      A lot of the most inflammatory words in the Bible: "fornication", "abomination", "sodomy" are mistranslations, that do not accurately reflect the original meaning of the text.

    • @briggy4359
      @briggy4359 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      ​@@Grokford got any greek and hebrew to back up your claims?

  • @Bruised-Reed
    @Bruised-Reed 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +150

    I think Jesus would be above the spectrum saying “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."😢

    • @nerysghemor5781
      @nerysghemor5781 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

      Agreed...I'm a 0.5 progressive (not going any further left than that) and I actually look forward to finding out in the next life where I am wrong. I realize I don't know or understand everything and I think being open to learning and correction is good. From Scripture it seems that when a person was open to learning and correction when they didn't have it all right, Jesus was very kind in how he educated them, so I think that would be a positive conversation, not a negative one. (Think of the Samaritan woman, who had many things wrong theologically but showed openness to Him. Same with the eunuch who wanted to learn but didn't see the full meaning of the Scriptures on his own. That's how I hope the interaction will be when I get to Heaven. :-) )

    • @timboland7767
      @timboland7767 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Great comment !
      God bless 🙏⭐️

    • @sanukatharul1497
      @sanukatharul1497 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      ​​@@nerysghemor5781 As a 0.5 - 1.5 conservative: Amen, I agree with you also. We all have fallible minds due to our sin nature so glory be to The Lord for being good to us. God Jesus bless you, fellow brother or sister in Christ! :)

    • @juansolo3227
      @juansolo3227 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      If you believe in hell then it is certain that not everyone will be pardoned. And salvation is conditional on the basis of your faith, you must have a Christian faith. Some of the stuff mentioned in the video was against the essentials. For instance, universalism, a person cannot be both Christian and universalist. It matters where on the scale you are.

    • @kostafilipovic8488
      @kostafilipovic8488 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@nerysghemor5781Same

  • @elusivemayfly7534
    @elusivemayfly7534 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +185

    Wonderfully said! I recently heard Paul VanderKlay refer to himself as a “Mere Christianity” kind of person (alluding to the book by CS Lewis). This is my view as well.
    I was chrismated into the Eastern Orthodox Church last year, following a series of clear-and at times miraculous-signs. My Lord wants me there, and at my specific place of worship. He has brought me such joy in these things. But I was already a Christian before that, and the Holy Spirit was a major, felt presence in my life as a Baptist. My parents are beautiful Christians, as are other loved ones in Protestant or Catholic denominations.
    There is a “line” somewhere, of course, but God sees our hearts and is always calling to each of us. In that process, we are all going to misinterpret or simply not hear about a lot of true things. We see through a glass darkly. God works all things to the good of those who love him and activates those who love Him wherever we are.
    One day, we will no longer look through a glass but directly in His beautiful face. There will be no need for denominations because we will live with the unveiled Truth. Until then, I think we should give each other grace.
    We can be wrong about a lot of things while loving and serving God. Part of living is his gentle correction, which sometimes comes through another human with a different perspective.

    • @stephenfulford6227
      @stephenfulford6227 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      I would adhere to roughly the same view. Faith in the person of Jesus is central, which is not very propositional. The bible clearly makes propositional truth claims. However, even though Scripture is infallible, we are fallible. The best we can do is be faithful to Jesus in the beliefs we hold. I attend a church that I disagree with on many propositions, but I genuinely believe the people are trying to be faithful to Christ and God's word. Who am I to demand they shift from their faithfully held beliefs?

    • @fleskenialation
      @fleskenialation 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      God bless your heart. We need more like you

    • @nerysghemor5781
      @nerysghemor5781 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Well said!!! I am a Global Methodist with a strong respect for Orthodoxy (Wesleyan theology has some interesting crossovers with the East that are not normal for Western churches), and I fully expect to learn in the next life about areas where I'm wrong. I enjoy learning, so this isn't as much of a scary prospect for me as an interesting and exciting one. :-)

    • @jonaszswietomierz8017
      @jonaszswietomierz8017 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@nerysghemor5781Hey! I'm eastern orthodox and I was considering to read something from Wesley, but I can't find out what's his "magnum opus". Is there any book from him that you would recommend as an introduction to understanding his theology? (I want to read directly from him, not some biography)

    • @nerysghemor5781
      @nerysghemor5781 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@jonaszswietomierz8017 I would have to look into that to find the titles. What I would suggest as a keyword is what Methodists refer to as entire sanctification. It’s nearly identical to theosis.

  • @Yehohev
    @Yehohev 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +223

    I'm a 3 degree Conservative (btw I'm a Russian Baptist, but I deeply respect Orthodox Christianity).
    Bro, I like your videos.

    • @CodyseusRex
      @CodyseusRex 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      @@Mugiwara_Luffy_Samaif they dont have Jesus then yes they going to the hot place

    • @qfcbv
      @qfcbv 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@Mugiwara_Luffy_Sama
      he is saying that like all humans if they reject Jesus then down they go

    • @KitsugaVT
      @KitsugaVT 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      ​@@Mugiwara_Luffy_SamaAll people are sinners and fall short of God's standard. I think what you're trying to ask is if being transgender is a sin which yes it is because it distorts the creation of God, a man can not become a woman and a woman can not become a man, God created you unique and special and it should be cherished over a feeling. A few scriptural references are Genesis 1:27, Genesis 5:2, and Matthew 19:4.
      Another thing I'd add is God can not make errors and believing in trans ideology spits in God's face by telling Him that He made you wrong and He has fault which is untrue, as if He did have fault He could not be God.
      A few scriptural references Deuteronomy 32:4, Psalm 18:30, Matthew 5:48, Romans 12:2.

    • @kingxavior54
      @kingxavior54 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      I did not know that there Russian Baptists

    • @Yehohev
      @Yehohev 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@kingxavior54 of course, there are even Russian Old Catholics, Russian Lutherans, Methodists, Mormons etc :)

  • @GEK0dev
    @GEK0dev 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    "Your worry is Where would Jesus be" Man that hit for anyone on both sides XD

  • @JesusOrDestruction
    @JesusOrDestruction 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +169

    Always a treat when Redeemed Zoomer uploads

    • @jakubhrbek3203
      @jakubhrbek3203 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I like your profile picture 💪🏻

    • @ViennaSteeler
      @ViennaSteeler 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Yeah it's great for a laugh

    • @TheMasterPlayer-uo6ms
      @TheMasterPlayer-uo6ms 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@ViennaSteeler Turn to God ♥ do not learn on your own intuition

    • @ViennaSteeler
      @ViennaSteeler 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @@TheMasterPlayer-uo6ms "don't think for yourself"
      Lol alright buddy

    • @sneeu27
      @sneeu27 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@ViennaSteelerif you aren't a Christian then why even answer another Christians comment lol

  • @D-Labbs
    @D-Labbs 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +30

    Now I'm atheist and come from a LGBTQ household. I just found your channel and tbh I've already gained so much respect for you as you're incredibly informative and thoughtful.

    • @weapon-x
      @weapon-x 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      @matheuscaneta1194 most likely the parents dont discriminate on lgbtq and embrace/allow it in their household

    • @basedbuddha777
      @basedbuddha777 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Lmfao, so you come from a fundamentalist/religious household.

    • @holstonmatt
      @holstonmatt 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      @matheuscaneta1194 you can't just become gay or trans, stop that dumb logic already

    • @caboplays3955
      @caboplays3955 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Why aren’t you Christian?

  • @joshuamaruffi2599
    @joshuamaruffi2599 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +126

    6:50
    I genuinely do not recall a time I’ve laughed as hard as seeing that botched “acktshyuwally”. 😂

    • @b.tresource5611
      @b.tresource5611 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Same. I now know not to drink anything while I’m watching his videos, lol

    • @remy6ix
      @remy6ix 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Bot

  • @sundowner9726
    @sundowner9726 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

    Your too late atheists, I've already portrayed YOU as the Wojack and ME as the Chad

    • @marlon8095
      @marlon8095 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      Tips fedora

    • @mebin3059
      @mebin3059 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      *y'roue

    • @sundowner9726
      @sundowner9726 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@mebin3059 Y'o'r'es

  • @Jesus_loves_you2004
    @Jesus_loves_you2004 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +77

    It’s weird, when I gave my life to Jesus, I kinda started off as a stage one progressive Christian, and then some how by some miracle, went the completely opposite direction 💯😂💯💯💯

    • @TurtleShroom3
      @TurtleShroom3 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +41

      That's because you actually became a Christian and wanted to obey God.

    • @redeemedzoomer6053
      @redeemedzoomer6053  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +45

      me too actually

    • @ihiohoh2708
      @ihiohoh2708 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

      Same here. I think many younger Christians start off this way due to how politics have become so religious. The left is very good at proselytizing by manipulating human empathy.

    • @zacharydelgado2279
      @zacharydelgado2279 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      Welcome to the club. We love Jesus too. It’s great. He tells you to do stuff and you do it.

    • @zacharydelgado2279
      @zacharydelgado2279 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@redeemedzoomer6053hey man, great videos. Fellow Zoomer here. If you have trouble reading the word of God, check out podcasts. The one I use is called the Bible in a year. (Yes I know you’re a Presbyterian and you’re Catholic, I think you and I are in the same boat). It’s an extremely easy way to swallow the entire (Catholic) Bible in one year. If you drive for more than 2.5 hours/week, you can probably listen to the entire Bible in 1 year. I’m on my 4th lap now. Great stuff man. Keep it up.

  • @RyanFenn27th
    @RyanFenn27th 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +76

    Great video! But I think conservative 3 and 4 should be switched. Also, I'd like to humbly request a "History of King David, I guess" You style makes sharing these topics with my kids very accessible.

    • @wosstudiosw8768
      @wosstudiosw8768 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      As a young earth creationist I think other denominations can be saved so they shouldn't switch

    • @TurtleShroom3
      @TurtleShroom3 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      No way, denominational exclusion is far more extreme than youn-gearth Creationism. Very, VERY few Baptists will say that orthodox-practicing Methodists, Lutherans, and so on are damned. More will say that Catholics or even Orthodox are damned, but that's largely due to a lack of understanding of the Church's approach to things like papist Infusion versus Protestant Imputation, or the role of intercession of the saints. All of them will say that Progressive """""Christians""""" are damned because they loathe the Bible and its teachings, dismissing them as obsolete, bigoted, or even immoral.
      To say that your denomination is the only right one, or a set of only right ones, is a rejection of Jesus' teachings of one Holy, Universal, and Apostolic Church, as well as the Nicene Creed's declaration of the same. Ecumenicalism is the correct approach. Denominations exist because men disagree on open-handed doctrines like the nature of the Lord's Supper, Infusion versus Imputation, the organizational structure of the Holy Orders (Oversees, Deacons, and Elders), while agreeing on absolute Truths (e.g. Jesus is God, Jesus is the only way to Salvation, Jesus' Resurrection and Virgin Birth), and so on.
      I firmly believe that Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestant Christians that actually believe in the Word of God and practice its Truths accordingly are Christian and will see one-another in Heaven.

    • @Robin-sf3gk
      @Robin-sf3gk 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I'd say that >70% of exerising protestants are creationists.

    • @TurtleShroom3
      @TurtleShroom3 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Robin-sf3gk
      Creationism is the belief that the universe, and all in it, including life itself, is the handiwork of God and that He directed, orchestrated, and directly worked to make it at His pleasure and His discretion.
      That's it.
      If you believe the universe, let alone life, is an accident, you deny God the credit for the works of His Hands. That denial damns you, because it denies the WHO and the WHY. The HOW is open-handed (I believe evolutionary biology is God's means), but the WHO and WHY are non-negotiable.

    • @mr.alfredo4177
      @mr.alfredo4177 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Robin-sf3gkthat’s an extreme take

  • @sam-is-a-human
    @sam-is-a-human 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +53

    as an atheist, i'm always annoyed when people say that atheists want to destroy religion, or believe it's no use. that's an antitheist, not an atheist

    • @Im_a_sexafender
      @Im_a_sexafender 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Athiest is just not believing in any relegion

    • @sam-is-a-human
      @sam-is-a-human 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      @@Im_a_sexafender exactly! we don't care what you believe, we just don't believe it ourselves.

    • @TaeyxBlack
      @TaeyxBlack 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      yea the little side-comment about “if you’re a non-believer and have negative opinions about christianity, then you’re a normal non-believer” was really shady. persecution complex much? or maybe it’s projection

    • @johntaylor6851
      @johntaylor6851 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Yeah, Atheism isn't destroying the church. We're doing a fine job of that on our own. Truthfully, if we were doing the will of Jesus and following Him, not just using Him for a mascot, there would be fewer Atheists in general

    • @sam-is-a-human
      @sam-is-a-human 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@johntaylor6851 i agree %100 percent, so many are turned away from religion by the people supposed to get them into it. i always hear "i went to Catholic school and now i'm not a Christian" and it breaks my heart.
      (not ragging on Catholics, that's jus the first example i remembered.)

  • @wordsmith7995
    @wordsmith7995 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    That last line wrapped up the video beautifully, well done!

  • @crazyand2099
    @crazyand2099 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +98

    Ever since I returned to Christianity I've been trying to be as middle grounded as possible when it comes to these type of issues. I think regardless of who you are, as long as your belief in Christ is genuine, you are a Christian, full stop.

    • @AdorbsxAriel
      @AdorbsxAriel 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Same

    • @Sirjwinsalot
      @Sirjwinsalot 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +29

      I understand your point it lacks one thing. If you want believe in the Genuine Christ you are a Christian. That's why we have the Bible to learn about Him. I say this because I've known and met people that say they believe in Jesus Christ and are sincere when they say it but they believe in a different Jesus ie saying that He isn't God. He is God. People can be sincere and sincerely wrong at the same time. I'm glad you returned to Christianity please dig deep into God's word. Jesus is Truth. Eager for your progress in the gospel

    • @crazyand2099
      @crazyand2099 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      @@Sirjwinsalot but how would someone have genuine belief in Jesus and then claim he's not God, it's very clear that the Bible says He is.

    • @colbyentzminger217
      @colbyentzminger217 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@crazyand2099 Check out Arianism. It's essentially an old heresy that says Jesus is a created being, although the highest of the created order.

    • @danielfrank380
      @danielfrank380 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@crazyand2099 ”Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’“
      ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭22‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

  • @darthdadt
    @darthdadt 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +118

    Redeemed Zoomer is just 'S' tier. Great youtuber. Great Niche-tuber. Great Christ-tuber. Love pulling out a RZ video when I'm having religious conversations with people.

  • @ansel8427
    @ansel8427 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +110

    As someone who falls slightly to progressivism, I still like the way you explained both sides. I agree with the Stages vs Degree distinction since it kind of helps show how willing/likely each side is going to change their views. Only criticism would be that you spent more time explaining the progressive side and their flaws than the conservative side (I don't mean in terms of bias, I mean you didn't go too far into depth about each degree of conservatism like you did stages of liberalism). All in All a good and relevant video.

    • @disguisedcentennial835
      @disguisedcentennial835 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

      That’s just because the degrees are more broad in scope and separated, whereas progressivism is just one slippery slope into damnation. He _can’t_ get more specific for the degrees or he’d risk losing truthful accuracy, whereas progressivism is always the same and so can be specified.

    • @AatamiFin
      @AatamiFin 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +24

      @@disguisedcentennial835 Seems like you missed the entire point of the video.

    • @disguisedcentennial835
      @disguisedcentennial835 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@AatamiFin I have no clue what you think the point of this video was lol

    • @nerysghemor5781
      @nerysghemor5781 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      @@disguisedcentennial835 There are actually some of us who fall slightly on the progressive side who...well, didn't progress. By this scale I would fall at 0.5 and I actually do have clear lines not just on the right, but also on the left that I won't cross.

    • @scarabus3413
      @scarabus3413 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@disguisedcentennial835Someone has a clear bias

  • @rhyslewis7922
    @rhyslewis7922 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    Christianity does not need to progress. People just need to actually follow the bible.

    • @altairibnlaahad4431
      @altairibnlaahad4431 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Well certain people did, and millions died all because of their interpretation of it.

    • @kaliyuga14surfer88
      @kaliyuga14surfer88 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@altairibnlaahad4431people sin. and total death count of religious wars and persecutions does not reach "millions"

    • @facundopuerta7673
      @facundopuerta7673 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@altairibnlaahad4431im pretty sure they didnt read it but instead they "read" it, and the word of God has been twisted since the ancient times, even the devil tried to twist the Bible to make Jesus fail

    • @simonditomasso9868
      @simonditomasso9868 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Brother the bible tells you how to treat your slaves… ofc it needs to progress

    • @Islamzindabad-z7g
      @Islamzindabad-z7g 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@simonditomasso9868im a Muslim but the “god” in the bible word shouldn’t change the quran hasn’t changed im pretty sure all abrahamic religions agree god can’t be wrong. Besides there is more slaves in the world now than back then

  • @2percentmusic204
    @2percentmusic204 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +35

    I’d recommend a book like Dangerous Jesus which deals with social Justice from a conservative Christian perspective

    • @jdotoz
      @jdotoz 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      That just comes down to following both of the great commandments.

    • @Ex_christian
      @Ex_christian 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Religion is dangerous!

  • @EVOSYS_YT
    @EVOSYS_YT 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +51

    It's hard to know where I am on this spectrum because I'm a little bit of many things on each side. My system shares a lot of different views from a universalist Christian who doesn't fit your video description and a strict conservative who shares some liberal beliefs about the world, and there were some things missing here as well imo but overall thanks for the presentation, I hope it helps others. The most important thing imo is the end point you made about Jesus, and that people know they don't have to fall into a specific category.

    • @juansolo3227
      @juansolo3227 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      In what ways do you share ideals with universalists? And yes it does matter, salvation is conditional on your faith.

    • @EVOSYS_YT
      @EVOSYS_YT 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@juansolo3227 look it up and you'll see descriptions of it, there are good examples. Also what? I'm a bit confused of what you're saying but it was a month ago so I'm not sure I have the right to answer anyway lol

    • @juansolo3227
      @juansolo3227 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@EVOSYS_YT that’s super fair. 😂I’m gonna be honest, I am coming back a month later to your response too and I don’t remember much either lol. I may have wanted to know whether or not you were a universalist yourself and where your beliefs aligned with the universalist I guess. You mentioned you had views that aligned with a universalist and a strict conservative and so I was most likely intrigued by that I guess. You also said it doesn’t matter what categories a person falls in, that probably ticked something off in my head at the time cause you brought that up in the same paragraph as universalism.

    • @EVOSYS_YT
      @EVOSYS_YT 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@juansolo3227 ohh well I was also talking about my system as in, multiple people living in one head, some are conservatives some aren't at all. I think I worded it in a way it didn't make as much sense. Honestly I'm not very good at talking about stuff like this as I'm not super knowledgeable on the terms and don't really care tbh. I just try to fit into what I think best describes me moment by moment lol
      Thanks for replying anyway tho

    • @juansolo3227
      @juansolo3227 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@EVOSYS_YT fair enough, talking is hard. I get that, I’m dyslexic and also don’t sleep so I don’t sound the most eloquent when I speak to my friends at times.
      I do feel odded out by your phrasing and feel compelled to ask. I’m not quite sure what you mean by, “multiple people in one head.” What do you mean by that?

  • @CuriousGeorge13
    @CuriousGeorge13 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +41

    As someone who is currently on the path to ministry, I often find myself more conflicted by some of these divisions than I would be if I were simply interested in remaining part of the laity. It's one thing to attend a church in which you disagree with some of their theological positions but it's another to be the pastor in a denomination with which you disagree. I would love to know how to best approach these kinds of issues as a member of the clergy.

    • @Rhinoch8
      @Rhinoch8 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Act faithfully with your clergy, while understanding that beliefs and other earthly machinations and categorizations of the intellect are only hindrances to be closer to God.

  • @mrsbialecki4149
    @mrsbialecki4149 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

    Curious as to whether women in ministry is the best example for your degrees of conservatism. I know many churches that will hold to degree 2 and 3 but have no issue with women in ministry leadership or pastoral roles.

    • @thedomainofsealteamaqua
      @thedomainofsealteamaqua 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      we believe women should be in the hospitality/small group ministry, but not pastoral, simpply because of the nature of women (emotional). we are not narrow-minded like many would think, simply logical

    • @NPC-bs3pm
      @NPC-bs3pm 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@thedomainofsealteamaqua Also it is HIGHLY SUSPECT🤨 (ulterior motive) that there is a NEW way for the church going forward (after THOUSANDS of frick@&en years) with Women in leadership.

    • @Cindy99765
      @Cindy99765 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      ​@@thedomainofsealteamaqua Eh. Anger is an emotion as well, and it's led to most wars we've had to this day.

    • @thedomainofsealteamaqua
      @thedomainofsealteamaqua 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@Cindy99765 ok? I don’t see your point

    • @Cindy99765
      @Cindy99765 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@thedomainofsealteamaqua Your argument is that women should not lead since they are emotional, but men can be very emotional as well.

  • @junothepeasant
    @junothepeasant 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +89

    This was a pretty good video, and your explanations were pretty fair for both extremes.
    I've been beginning to read Tim Keller's book "The Prodigal God" that talks about the Parable of the Prodigal Son, and this video sort of reminds me both about the younger and elder brother, and how both reflect two far extremes (one is outright rebellion, and other is cold self-righteousness/religiosity). We should make sure that we do our best to obey the Lord because of what Jesus did for us, but not become self-righteous or condescending to others.

    • @duplodragon
      @duplodragon 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      What is also interesting is that these two extremes also appear in the two main groups Jesus had theological debates with during his ministry: the Sadduces were theologically liberal in that they ignored all scripture besides the Thora and even denied the afterlife. The Pharisees on the other hand were the self-righteous legalists. There is this awesome episode recounted in Mark 12, Matthew 22 and Luke 20 were our Lord refutes both of the factions nonsense back to back.

    • @junothepeasant
      @junothepeasant 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@duplodragon That is a good point.

    • @Rhinoch8
      @Rhinoch8 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Very well said

  • @crazycoolkids00
    @crazycoolkids00 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    The YEC thing isn't a marker of conservatism so much as biblical education. Many conservative reformed theologians are not YEC, despite being champions of inerrancy. Inerrancy is about trust; YEC is about interpretation. Never confuse interpretation with trust.
    It could be said that certain interpretations are more traditional, such as compatibilism (moderate Calvinism), eternal conscious torment or barring women from leading positions of ministry, which have been held by a majority of bible-believing Christian scholars throughout the majority of the last 2000 years. But YEC is not one of those positions. The early church writers were split on it, and from there the church saw much allegorization, and from there much of Christendom was not YEC until the movement really started taking over layman evangelicalism in America in about the 20th century. It's one of various views held on Genesis throughout church history and should not be a test of orthodoxy.
    EDIT: Also, inerrancy has been around for much longer than a reaction to liberal Christianity. It was there in the first five centuries. The idea that it's a more recent belief is a myth.
    Really enjoyable video though. 😊

  • @aidenlevenduski3643
    @aidenlevenduski3643 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    Even though I’m Roman Catholic I still support the local churches except the liberals

    • @MatthewPatel-hx4ci
      @MatthewPatel-hx4ci 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      *The Pope would be extremely disappointed.*

    • @AureliusLaurentius1099
      @AureliusLaurentius1099 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      ​@@MatthewPatel-hx4ci Nah the current pope is fine with it

  • @JoshHamps
    @JoshHamps 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

    The difference between a conservative Christian and a liberal "Christian" is that the conservative one doesn't have to rip entire sections out of his Bible to make his theology work.

    • @zfloyd1627
      @zfloyd1627 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      Ethnonationalists do rip out sections of their bible to make their theology work.

    • @JoshHamps
      @JoshHamps 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @zfloyd1627 does that even exist in the USA? The only Ethnonationalists I ever hear of are those black liberation movement but 1) they are too small in number to have a significant impact and 2) usually Muslims so I doubt they have any use for a Bible of any kind 😄

    • @joebriggs5781
      @joebriggs5781 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It’s a made up book by human beings…what difference does it make?

    • @xenomang3149
      @xenomang3149 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@zfloyd1627 yeah but at that point, are they conservative? i thought being conservative means adhering to the original traditions. ethnonationalism was not that.

    • @dtm2741
      @dtm2741 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      gee, i wonder why 🤡

  • @theheroboy1
    @theheroboy1 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +52

    I would count myself in the first degree of christian conservatism even though I am far right on the political spectrum.
    This would show how religion would differ from politics.

    • @vicsterrling1294
      @vicsterrling1294 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Respect my fellow sigma

    • @theheroboy1
      @theheroboy1 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@vicsterrling1294 haha thank you for your respect but I am an alpha male so it’s better to call me alpha than sigma

    • @maxzation
      @maxzation 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +20

      Far right, as in ultra capitalism reactionary? May God change your heart, both capitalism and socialism are inherently sinful economics

    • @theheroboy1
      @theheroboy1 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

      @@maxzation I’m not capitalist, I’m authoritarian far right, capitalism is libertarian. I don’t wanna express my economic views but I’m definitely not socialist nor capitalist

    • @Artyur
      @Artyur 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

      ​@@theheroboy1i think you are socialist, that starts with "national" 😏

  • @georgetsoukalas1409
    @georgetsoukalas1409 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +36

    Im probably a 2nd degree conservative Christian. As a biochemist I understand that evolution is real, and intelligent design seems reasonable to me. I also understand there is a lot of historical evidence that Christ exists and rose from the dead, and I put my faith in Him. I also realise that today we are fighting a spiritual war. Funny think is I used to be a cynnical atheist 4-5 years ago.

    • @JustaJackalope
      @JustaJackalope 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      Glad you have been saved

    • @HaydenFPlaysVODS
      @HaydenFPlaysVODS 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I think that evolution as a concept is real but not radical evolution like we used to be apes. I dont even believe darwin believed that at the end of his life.

    • @gamingwhilebroken2355
      @gamingwhilebroken2355 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@HaydenFPlaysVODS
      We are still apes and Darwin never denounced evolution and was active in his congregation throughout his life.

    • @sayonaragoodbye9818
      @sayonaragoodbye9818 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@HaydenFPlaysVODS evolution doesn't claim we used to be apes, please do more research

    • @claracaporali9850
      @claracaporali9850 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      i'm exactly the same. ex-atheist too, thank God

  • @MetalBansheeX
    @MetalBansheeX 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +37

    I grew up in a family with Catholic elders (great-grandparents and grandmother). I was a Christian for like 3 months when I was 6 years old because the Catholic school I attended made us go through catechesis and religious classes. Since none of what I was taught was actively enforced by my family nor my peers, my own analysis made me realize how little sense it made and stopped believing, without understanding that religion is a social construct, of course. Still, I was still emotionally attached to the idea of Jesus and God. Like, I wanted Jesus and I to be best friends and I still prayed to God every night asking for everyone in the world to be well. I'd say things like "If you exist, which I hope you do, please allow everyone to be happy", this all despite, at a rational level, understanding that God didn't exist. It just gave me emotional comfort and warmth.
    As time passed, I eventually talked to the people in my life about it and became agnostic but atheistic regarding anthropocentric religions (which I am still, but even the agnostic part is fading off). It's weird because even though that was the case, I still appreciated prayer sessions and the little sermons we were part of every cold morning before class began at school more than my actually Christian peers. It's funny in the context of this video because essentially all the verses they recited were about social justice, especially being selfless. I'm not entirely sure if religion itself is good or bad for society as a whole and its individuals, but I'm leaning towards "it shouldn't exist because staunch belief in something that is essentially myth is inherently irrational and tends to damage critical thinking", but I'm not sure.
    So yeah, despite me not believing a single thing about the Biblical canon, I still feel some sort of attachment to Catholicism. I am attached to Catholic customs, iconography, places of worship, etc. They make me feel warm and comfortable and at peace. They make me feel at home. I love to just casually enter churches and stay there for a while. They're beautiful. I'm not Catholic, but I still feel attachment to it and its cultural manifestations. It's odd because I'd love to be a Catholic, but I just don't believe in religion at all. Is there a specific term for this? What can I do about it? :o

    • @sorenotm2368
      @sorenotm2368 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

      Prayer, even if it feels like you are not heard by god, is the best way to him

    • @dokidelta1175
      @dokidelta1175 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      I could go on about the rationality of Christianity, and how it is perfectly compatible with our understanding of the universe, but I would just recomend prayer.

    • @mysteriousstranger5873
      @mysteriousstranger5873 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      Funnily enough, a direct translation from Hebrew does seem to actually support evolution being used to create man. Metatron has a good video on Adam and Eve, where Adam is referred to as The Adam, as if Adam was one of a pre-existing species.

    • @dontewithdragons
      @dontewithdragons 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@mysteriousstranger5873 Exactly. It's called Divine-Guided Evolution. Whatever primate/pre-human creature existed, God gave it the type of rational soul that led to our innate morality and advanced rational consciousness we have today. Considered like "Patient Zero" of humans is what you'd evolutionary refer to Adam and Eve. Biblically supported incest for the last resort of the survival of the species if there were no more humans. Completely in line with how natural evolution is.

    • @ash9280
      @ash9280 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I went through this phase for a while and now I want to become a Catholic. It is a sign that is calling to convert. Stay on that track even if it requires years which it did for me.

  • @noahbodycares3005
    @noahbodycares3005 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I’m starting to love this channel. I love getting your perspective on the divides between faiths

  • @teratoma.
    @teratoma. 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

    now imagine how many times throughout the history this exact situation happened, where changes were made according to what became socially accepted
    though that would require perspective thinking and that's too much to ask for when the only thing important are affirmations

    • @Samookely
      @Samookely 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      thats why i take even videos like this with a grain of salt. I dont fully recognize myself as a Christian so im no master of what goes on in christianity but its videos like this that do it for me. He clearly holds a lot of ill feelings towards more progressive churches despite trying to appear unbiased. Not saying he cant have those feelings but when your entire religion depends on loving your neighbor and then you have people like this everywhere that clearly dont love their neighbor, its hard to take seriously. Its why i left the church, no respect amongst any of them

    • @florianvriezen1656
      @florianvriezen1656 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @@Samookelybrother let me tell you. Jesus thought us to love everyone but he didn’t thought us to love sin. The people going towards the progressive side of Christianity are living in sin and encouraging sin. Like it is clearly stated that being homosexual is a sin. So for a church to tell it is Allright is just simply telling lies so we as Christian’s need to stop this and teaching people how God wants us to life. Idk the verse by head but you remember Jesus seeing people selling stuff in the synagogue and He goes in and makes everyone leave? He didn’t hate those people He just showed you that sin won’t be accepted. May God bless you my friend and turn you back to Him. If you have any questions to me feel free to ask me and I will gladly try to help you my friend

    • @Samookely
      @Samookely 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @@florianvriezen1656 i acknowledge that the bible calls it a sin, but having been raised in a very devout culture (whole family raised in dutch reformed) the only thing i didnt agree with was the treatment of these people that i saw around me. My gripe has always just been hypocrites, which i know are impossible to fully get rid of since we all have a tendency to be hypocritical ourselves. I just saw an extreme lack of accountability for other peoples mistreatment in cases where people were close to each other. Im a firm believer in keeping yourself and others around you accountable in a way that’s honest and not meant to harm, even if that means a good deal of self reflection. I agree that christian guilt is taking it too far though, getting stuck up on the past and doing too much self sacrifice isnt productive at all. (edit and i appreciate the offer thank you, I will consider)

    • @Grokford
      @Grokford 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@florianvriezen1656
      "The people going towards the progressive side of Christianity are living in sin and encouraging sin."
      Well they would often say the exact same thing as you, so would you agree that the actual difference is in what different Christians call sin?
      To my eyes, no one is endorsing sin, it's just that people have very different ideas of what is and isn't sin in the first place.
      " Like it is clearly stated that being homosexual is a sin."
      For example, this is a very clear statement, it is also a mistranslation.
      Homosexuality is a modern example, it does not appear in the original language of the Bible nor in any other ancient document.
      One could argue about what is or is not included in the meaning of the original text, but to give the impression of exactness in translation where the source text has a different connotation is an inaccurate or misleading translation.
      How misleading is another question.
      "So for a church to tell it is Allright is just simply telling lies"
      I would say that this statement lacks empathy.
      It's not a lie, people genuinely believe that homosexuality is not a sin.
      I don't know exactly how we could guarantee a healthy dialogie with other people, but I have to imagine that assuming that they are lying about their own beliefs is not a good start.
      "so we as Christian’s need to stop this and teaching people how God wants us to life."
      They would say the same about you.

    • @abaddon2148
      @abaddon2148 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      ​@@florianvriezen1656 Not loving sin doesn't mean being smug, snide and uncharitable to your opponents who engage in such. Which is what this whole video is about.

  • @Logan_Bishop_YT
    @Logan_Bishop_YT 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Well done! A few comments I might add:
    1. If I had to draw a line on where Christianity ends, it would be 3-stage Liberalism, because if you aren't basing your faith on the Bible, then on what do you base your faith?
    2. If I had to put myself anywhere, it would be 2nd degree Conservatism, because if the Bible isn't inerrant, you can make it say whatever you want to say, which is a very dangerous form of Hermeneutics called "Eisegesis."
    3. I like how you distinguished the "Religious spectrum" per se from the Political spectrum. I am economically Left-leaning, because those are the ones that help the poor. So I guess you could say that I'm politically moderate.

    • @MedK001
      @MedK001 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I'd think the 'inerrant' part mostly has to do with mistranslations and the like. After all, the original language wasn't English, and surely there are some concepts in the original language that can't be easily explained in English.

    • @Logan_Bishop_YT
      @Logan_Bishop_YT 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@MedK001 I agree. "Inerrant" simply means it was without error the original language.

  • @petrsvetnicka7620
    @petrsvetnicka7620 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    I think it might be a mistake to mix a spectrum of opinions with a spectrum of tolerance. You can have a very narrow tolerance that doesn't copy the traditional views. But it's a complicated topic and for a short video, great job!

    • @josephrudd8824
      @josephrudd8824 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      He thinks people on the right want Christianity to be exclusive. That’s absurd. I mean I don’t talk to people on the right more than my leftist friends. But I’m on the right and I know what Christianity is and what’s it’s not and it’s not exclusive.

    • @mim-ju8dr
      @mim-ju8dr 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      JWs are like this in some ways

    • @flyingstonemon3564
      @flyingstonemon3564 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@josephrudd8824 I agree, unlike Judaism which was traditionalist and exclusive and had clear emphasis in tribal cultural identity persisting (It's even why the old testament was written), Jesus revealed himself as a Universal revelation to humanity. It wouldn't make sense to make It exclusive since the goal is Human salvation as a whole.

  • @AndromedasCartoon
    @AndromedasCartoon 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    Alternate Title: Tumblr vs Twitter Explained

    • @CyberGuy2
      @CyberGuy2 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      The fact that Twitter went from being viewed as far left to far right within a year is comical

  • @TheStarshipGarage
    @TheStarshipGarage 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +71

    Always nice to start my day with a new Redeemed Zoomer video.
    I fall in an interesting place on this scale. My parents gave me a firm foundation and taught me how to read and understand scripture.
    I have no problem with female pastors, but I've been looking to research the topic more since it's a pretty complex issue.
    On this scale, that would put me as progressive. However, I am a young earth creationist. This is mostly because of my older sister who is currently getting a PhD in biology and paleontology who taught me all about the subject and gave me great resources. I don't believe that believing in evolution as a Christian is a huge issue, since in the end, it doesn't affect your salvation. I just believe that there are some contradictions in believing in both evolution and The Bible (although it does clear up the issue of abiogenesis that athiest evolutionists struggle with)
    Currently, I'm on track to get a degree in Ministry and Theology with an emphasis on Youth and Family with a minor in history from a solid Christian University. a lot of your videos have helped me understand differences between denomincations and have helped me to define where I stand in the matter. Keep doing God's work, my dude!

    • @simonstark5457
      @simonstark5457 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I think that Just because you are a Young earth Creationist doesn't mean Ur Stage 3 conservative, only when you think its the only right way and anything else is blasphemy etc

    • @pedroguimaraes6094
      @pedroguimaraes6094 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@@simonstark5457yes, people don't understood RZ when he said that the conservative escale is about what you " can tolerate" and not about what you believe.

    • @bene2451
      @bene2451 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      you think that there are contradictions to evolution? Evolution is practically classified as a discovery a discovery, not a theory. (I know, its called the theory of evolution, but 97% of modern experts would back it up

    • @JohnMcLoughlin06
      @JohnMcLoughlin06 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      What’s abiogenesis? I’ve never heard of it. Also, has your sister found paleontological evidence supporting young-earth creationism, because if so I’m intrigued as someone who believes evolution took place.

    • @TheStarshipGarage
      @TheStarshipGarage 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@JohnMcLoughlin06 Abiogenesis is life coming from non-life, which is what atheists have to believe happened in order for us to be here. And its never been observed. As for my sister finding paleontological evidence, you'd have to ask her directly as I dont have the expertise in that area to properly explain it. But there's a few things I do know such as 1: the existence of many modern species in earlier eras of the fossil record. 2: the existence of animals in many ancient cave paintings that are similar to dinosaurs 3: the existence of tyrannosaur soft tissue.
      If you want some better info on the subject, I'd suggest watching Answers in Genesis videos, and coming to your own conclusions based off of those.

  • @CatholicSoldierX
    @CatholicSoldierX 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Bro I'm an ethnonationalist, that doesn't mean I dislike other Christian people groups. That only means that you honor your ancestors and respect what they went through, and don't want to see it all thrown in the garbage. Europe is white and Christian.

    • @AlekseyMaksimovichPeshkov
      @AlekseyMaksimovichPeshkov 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      That means you like classical music right?

    • @CatholicSoldierX
      @CatholicSoldierX 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @@AlekseyMaksimovichPeshkov Yeah sure, why?

    • @AlekseyMaksimovichPeshkov
      @AlekseyMaksimovichPeshkov 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@CatholicSoldierX Oh because I assumed you may one of those people who want to be proud of their race and heritage (white people I mean) but they still enjoy non-white music like hip-hop (don't consider it music) and can't stand actual European music

    • @CatholicSoldierX
      @CatholicSoldierX 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@AlekseyMaksimovichPeshkov I never met someone like that, that sounds more like a racist liberal to be honest. Most of hip-hop is indeed very tasteless.

    • @AlekseyMaksimovichPeshkov
      @AlekseyMaksimovichPeshkov 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@CatholicSoldierX My uncle claimed he confronted and beat up a bunch of so called white supremacists who were listening to rap music. He said according to them their justification for that was because they thought black people were meant to entertain white people. That does kind of sound like the white Southern slave owners actually

  • @runcandy3
    @runcandy3 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Switch degree one and two around, and I think you have it. For example, it is more likely that one will accept female pastors who affirm inerrancy, but not accept someone who denies inerrancy. However, it also depends on whether or not the ranking is completely linear.

    • @robertlunderwood
      @robertlunderwood 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      To believe that the Bible is infallible and is truly the word of God directly leads to the conclusion that there should be no female pastors.

  • @00F
    @00F 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I cant tell if the dislike ratio is from conservatives comparing themselves to other conservatives, progressives comparing themselves to other progressives, or conservatives and progressives comparing to each other.

    • @cyrusmann5443
      @cyrusmann5443 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Probably all three

  • @Austin-kt7ky
    @Austin-kt7ky 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    I'd like to add that ethnonationalism is more complex than just racism. The tribes of Israel were not allowed to marry members of other Israelite tribes, so some Christians believe that it's important for a nation to maintain ethnic identity because it reflects God's design in the same way heterosexuality does.

  • @tejloro
    @tejloro 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    I'm definitely on the right side of your model, but given your criteria, I don't fit at any one number. I think we need to keep in mind how hard (and inaccurate) is can be to pigeon-hole people based on a one-dimensional set of beliefs. Good video, tho...

    • @MutantMasterRace
      @MutantMasterRace 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      True. I believe some things on the farther right side but don't believe some of the things that come before it. (Ie I'm not a YEC or believe other denominations are going to hell, but I do believe some stuff about etho-nationalism.)

    • @Robin-sf3gk
      @Robin-sf3gk 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I'd say the conservative degreese are very much influenced by his mainline perspective. While evangelicals/baptists and charismatics which make the majority in western countries if you just focus on regulary exercising christians mix these things up. For example I'd claim that far over 70% of western regulary exercising christians are creationists or would say that the vatican is not from god (degree 4) while a minority realy would have a problem with a preaching woman.

  • @AnuViation
    @AnuViation 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +45

    I hope Pope Francis is watching...

    • @ybk6858
      @ybk6858 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I recently left the Catholic Church because of him. The Catholic Church in and of itself is heretical since it claims the pope is infallible. So in theory what ever the pope says every Catholic has to believe. Well yikes.. I am currently looking into orthodoxy.

    • @maten146
      @maten146 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Pope Francis is extremely conservative compared to liberal protestants.
      He has stayed numerous times that abortion, homosxuality, etc is a tentation of the devil

    • @FriarJoe66
      @FriarJoe66 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

      Based Pope

    • @AureliusLaurentius1099
      @AureliusLaurentius1099 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@FriarJoe66 Guy just approved same sex blessings
      He is borderline heterodox

    • @deeznuts3472
      @deeznuts3472 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      chomo pope@@FriarJoe66

  • @rursus8354
    @rursus8354 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Liberal Christianity vs. Conservative Christianity is not about religion. It is about psychology. Such as in the five factor model's openness, LC:s are open, and CC:s are closed. The religion is the mental infrastructure that provides a language, it provides building blocks of sayings ("parables") and exemplarly stories ("mythemes"). What and how people cherry-pick these and put them together, and if they use them for rigid morals or ethical themes, is very much due to the religion user.

  • @Default78334
    @Default78334 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +24

    There are plenty of self-described Christian sects/denominations that depart greatly from the Nicene Creed in their beliefs and would by no means be described as progressive in their doctrines (e.g. Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons).

    • @rbranham8062
      @rbranham8062 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

      Not Christians

    • @clpfox470
      @clpfox470 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

      Aren't they heritics in the literal sense?

    • @EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts
      @EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Indeed, we Jehovah's Witnesses are far more dedicated to a strict, literal understanding of the Bible than the Catholic church or most protestants, and according to at least one survey are THE MOST anti abortion denomination, however, we do not accept the Trinity, because its not in the Bible but rather a later accretion, and are Annihilationist, since that seems to be what the Bible teaches, Ecclesiastes 9:4-6, Psalm 6:5 and so on.
      However, if you start from the point of believing the Bible DOES teach the Trinity, you need to really doubt the Bible to doubt the Trinity. The Unitarians had that problem, though there are still Bible believing Unitarians, just not in the UU.

    • @BasedFatChad
      @BasedFatChad 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Those people worship something other than the Christian God.

    • @Ralzone
      @Ralzone 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​​@@clpfox470I think that mormons are in a gray area since they truly believe that God came to America or smthing and yada yada

  • @peopleskingdomofwolcottia
    @peopleskingdomofwolcottia 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    Non-Christian here.
    I generally don't like the idea that religion is just a degree between progressivism vs conservatism. You either take the faith seriously or you don't.

    • @colbyentzminger217
      @colbyentzminger217 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I suppose the issue is that many people take it seriously, they just take it seriously differently and in different directions.

    • @rbranham8062
      @rbranham8062 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Conservative Christians agree with you

    • @peopleskingdomofwolcottia
      @peopleskingdomofwolcottia 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@rbranham8062 Exactly. Judaism has a problem with "reform" and "conservative" Judaism; they distort the Torah for their own purposes whilst claiming the faith.
      Tbh this is one of my disagreements w/ Redeemed Zoomer in his videos describing different religions he labeled Reform Jews and "Conservative" Jews as legitimate sects when they are just heresies.

    • @luisoncpp
      @luisoncpp 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@colbyentzminger217 yes, it's possible to take the faith seriously in different directions, but those directions don't have anything to do with the current political spectrum.
      For example, Orthodox Catholicism and Roman Catholicism have a huge disagreement in one part of the creed, it's if the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, or from the Father only. That doesn't have anything to do with "progressivism vs conservatism".

    • @colbyentzminger217
      @colbyentzminger217 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@luisoncpp That example makes sense, although I was referring more specifically to the topic of women pastors.

  • @gigahorse1475
    @gigahorse1475 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +44

    I used to be a degree 4 conservative, but now I’m a degree 1. There’s one exception… I still believed in YEC while I didn’t believe in inerrancy.

    • @luiszapata6864
      @luiszapata6864 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      what is YEC (I see myself also deg 1 conservative)

    • @luiszapata6864
      @luiszapata6864 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ah nvm Young Earth Creationism, got it

    • @MatthewN07
      @MatthewN07 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Fair enough, do you think YEC is an essential belief though?

    • @precariousworlds3029
      @precariousworlds3029 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

      ​@@MatthewN07Either way it is wrong

    • @MatthewPatel-hx4ci
      @MatthewPatel-hx4ci 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You think Catholics are saved?

  • @mrratskins
    @mrratskins 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    I find your clarity refreshing. Not just on this video, but all that I have been binge watching!

  • @Rookeditz
    @Rookeditz 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +36

    Me, and most of us here are level 2 Conservatives, I think Jesus would definitely be there too.

    • @Baker0214
      @Baker0214 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

      Jesus would believe exactly what I believe.

    • @Vsaus223
      @Vsaus223 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      ​​@@Baker0214Jesus would be a Ethno Nationalist because all the races are kept in different parts of the world. I know the DNA differences are minor but it just gets ignored

    • @MutantMasterRace
      @MutantMasterRace 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      ​@@Vsaus223Zoomer may depict us as the Chudjak, but I tend to agree with that. Race mixing hasn't had great results. And only like 200 years ago that was a pretty common take for a reason. Thomas Jefferson was an advocate for ending slavery and sending blacks back to Africa. He knew that slavery was wrong but also knew blacks and whites would not mix well in the same country. I tend to follow a similar line of thinking. It's of course possible for all races to be Christians and be saved, but most ethnic groups are not compatible with western civilization.

    • @Vsaus223
      @Vsaus223 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@MutantMasterRace God isn't the only stem of morality. You can have Providence without a God. Karma is ridiculous new age hippy dippy nonsense, but you could go the other way and make Tradition your font of morality but please keep in mind a multi racial society can be successful.

    • @mustachemac5229
      @mustachemac5229 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Jesus is whatever people want him to be. It's called identity politics.

  • @gssalternatehistory
    @gssalternatehistory 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

    as a christian in my opinion u cant call yourself christian at stage 3 progressive

    • @thebumblebeemovie3514
      @thebumblebeemovie3514 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Anywhere near that is out of bounds. Either you believe the core tenants of Christianity and take it seriously or don’t believe it at all. Granted some take the expression of that way too strictly to where it’s legalism and not actually Christianity (far conservative side), but if you don’t believe Jesus is the Son of God who died and rose again for humanity, that you can know him personally, and that he is the only way to God, then you’re not a Christian. It’s either that or nothing.

    • @juansolo3227
      @juansolo3227 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      You can’t be a universalist and a Christian

  • @timb6558
    @timb6558 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Your comment on "stages" of progressiveism at 4:18 was a 🤯 moment for me!

  • @Adam444Tv
    @Adam444Tv 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I really like this slide. I’m a 1/2 Conservative. I am a member of a church that has 2 or 3 ordained women, a few teaching pastors, and I frequent one that has no women pastors, I don’t think churches that do makes them a false church. Thanks Zoomer. 😎

  • @ChristUnitedPod
    @ChristUnitedPod 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Can Universalism be considered “Progressive” if held or at least respected by certain members of the early church?
    Early Universalists
    1. Diodre of Tarsus
    2. Theophilus of Antioch
    3. Iraneaus of Lyons
    4. Gregory of Nyssa
    5. Athanasius
    6. Origen
    It could be a cool topic to explore, I could see you having a lot of fun with it!

  • @galacticnovastudios
    @galacticnovastudios 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +22

    I really have a hard time placing the female leaders as the dividing line. There are plenty of conservative denominations and organizations (like to stage 3 and 4) that allow women ministers and preachers, while I’ve even come into contact with some slightly more liberal people who believe only men can be preachers.

    • @yeetmaster8132
      @yeetmaster8132 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      Ministers and preachers yes, but pastors no.

    • @galacticnovastudios
      @galacticnovastudios 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@yeetmaster8132 please explain the difference? I’m willing to bet you also have gone to a church at some point that has a female youth pastor.
      I do believe a church is at its best when a male is in the senior pastor position but I’ve also known many females that have been strong in positions of leadership(worship leaders, youth, kids, prayer, and so on) and deserved the titles that go with that. So I don’t know how someone can interpret the scripture to say women and preach but not have a title that’s associated heavily with that.
      And really this was less about my personal views and about denominations and organizations that are very conservative but allow female pastors and preachers.

    • @yeetmaster8132
      @yeetmaster8132 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      I haven’t been to a church with a female pastor ever, youth or lead. The difference between ministers and preachers but not pastors is that pastors are the head of the church as well as the main person that speaks. Pastors have to be ordained to be the pastor. There can be female preachers and ministers if a church cannot find anyone else to speak on Sundays for whatever reason, but they cannot ordain female pastors. In the case of youth pastor it is the same. There can be females who lead the youth group if needed but they cannot be ordained as youth pastors

    • @galacticnovastudios
      @galacticnovastudios 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@yeetmaster8132 see I extremely disagree with you but I’m not here to have a debate I’m just pointing out that many great Christian organizations that are also conservative ordain females as pastors.
      I also find your logic lack luster. You believe it’s a forbidden for women to teach and lead but don’t care when a woman does it if there’s no man that wants too. If you genuinely believe that’s a command from God then there should be no exceptions not just bend it whenever is convenient

    • @kaylynn4750
      @kaylynn4750 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      My church has a female youth PASTOR, and she has that title.
      In fact, there’s only been two or three men who have EVER even wanted to be youth pastor. It’s always women in my church.
      That being said, the leadership team (but not the church as a whole) is open to female pastors being ordained and whatnot.
      Our youth pastors are not “ordained” in the traditional sense at my church, (we have lots of ministries with ministers and pastors, but the only “ordained” ministers are the heads (ie. Senior Pastor, Associate Pastor).
      It’s a non-denominational, leaning Baptist and AoG for context.

  • @jyu467
    @jyu467 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

    I personally would consider myself a 3rd degree conservative since I'm a young earth creationist, I believe in biblical inerrancy, and I don't believe women should be pastors

    • @tiggerjoy7899
      @tiggerjoy7899 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      But do you think young earth is required to be saved?

    • @spartanspeedruns8386
      @spartanspeedruns8386 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@tiggerjoy7899 He wasn't implying that you have to believe that to be saved. If he was, he's wrong. Nobody believes you have to believe that to be saved but we do believe that you're dismissing a core belief throughout the Bible if you don't.

    • @johnlong9786
      @johnlong9786 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@spartanspeedruns8386Oh, there are DEFINITELY people who think you have to believe in YEC to be saved.

    • @spartanspeedruns8386
      @spartanspeedruns8386 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@johnlong9786 That's cultish in nature and not true Christianity. It is silly to believe anything else, but nowhere in the Bible does it say anything about YEC being linked to salvation.

    • @johnlong9786
      @johnlong9786 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@spartanspeedruns8386 Tell that to Ken Ham.

  • @DefinitelyNotJay3705
    @DefinitelyNotJay3705 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Nice video dude, was informative and entertaining. Thank you for it :)
    Guess I'd be the middle one cause i don't really care if I'm a liberal or conservative Christian. I just wanna get on with my life and praise God and read my Bible and make myself a better person through the Bible and prayer yknow.

    • @outmywritemind1739
      @outmywritemind1739 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Well you're not going to be a better person by reading the Bible lmao thats like saying you're learning how to be a better President by reading Mein Kampf

  • @memperkasaya2078
    @memperkasaya2078 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I was in a Bible group and I considered it to be extremely beneficial for me. However they were “non-denominational”, and as you said that basically means they’re Baptist, and I was raised Catholic. One of our events they completely denied infant baptism as being something that is right and claimed there is only one true way to baptize someone. Complete denomination exclusivism.

    • @cephandrius5281
      @cephandrius5281 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Wouldn't a different group like Lutherans have done the opposite? I guess I'm just confused why them expressing their views on baptism is the same as denominational exclusivism. Were they saying people who believe differently are damned? Remember, on the Baptist conception of baptism, while it's very important, it doesn't actually cause salvation. So Baptists would say that a Christian who was baptized as an infant is still saved.

    • @Triumph263
      @Triumph263 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      That's not necessarily exclusivism. Baptists don't consider non-credobaptism to be valid, but they also don't (in general) consider it to be a matter of salvation, rather it's seen as incorrect practice.

    • @memperkasaya2078
      @memperkasaya2078 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@cephandrius5281 well they claimed they weren’t baptized, and they referred to their way of baptism as the only right way, the the other forms of baptism being simply wrong and misguided. I wasn’t essentially saying they were Baptist, just that they expressed beliefs that were more aligned with baptists than whatever they were telling themselves.

    • @cephandrius5281
      @cephandrius5281 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@memperkasaya2078 I'm guessing they were probably rude about it, but I think every denomination would say that all other views of baptism are wrong, which isn't what's meant by denomination exclusivism

    • @thedomainofsealteamaqua
      @thedomainofsealteamaqua 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      um non denominational is calivinist. baptist is a denomination

  • @oogleoo
    @oogleoo 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    I think I currently lean 2-3 on the progressive side
    considering my upbringing (probably like 2 on the conservative side) and some of the damage it did (not saying people on the conservative side are inherently problematic, I just had difficult circumstances), this has felt like a win for me. I feel closer to God and Jesus than ever in my life, and closer to scripture in a more interpretive way

    • @nerysghemor5781
      @nerysghemor5781 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I appreciate that you're willing to put some nuance into it and recognize it's important to get to know people on an individual basis and not assume people are inherently problematic by class, identity, or even large ideological group. As someone who falls at about a 0.5 on the progressive side, you can probably imagine how someone like me gets associated unfairly with the worst of BOTH sides because each wants to see in me a reflection of whichever extreme they are angriest at.
      As a former United Methodist, (soon to be Global Methodist), I still approve of female pastors so long as they are held accountable in the exact same way as men. And I definitely, DEFINITELY recognize that situations like what happened to you in your upbringing are real and valid. I really hate when people act like "Jerks for Jesus," as I call it. But I guess for me it's not a "Christian guilt" thing as much as a recognition of humanity's sin problem. I see Christianity itself as positive; it's just that when someone's bent on behaving badly, they'll grab onto any conveniently-placed excuse they think will keep them from being called on the carpet for it.
      But I found that when the United Methodist Church started embracing Critical Theory, which I see as directly contradicted by the way Jesus treated individuals of every group totally on how they *individually* responded to him, I found that completely unacceptable. I think Critical Theory doesn't support human dignity; it degrades it, in my view. Rejecting that theory doesn't make me racist or bigoted or whatever. I suspect you and I agree on the idea that each human has inherent worth that goes WAY beyond merely "mattering," as the political slogan goes. Similarly, while I do not think the church has the authority to do a gay marriage ceremony, it doesn't make me a homophobe. I think free choice is VERY important and I am not going to go protest or interfere with another church that DOES conduct a gay marriage. And I think a lot of things should be *legal* that I wouldn't do myself...there isn't any moral value in a coerced "choice."
      So yeah, there's a post guaranteed to make people further to either side mad at the same time. XD

    • @oogleoo
      @oogleoo 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@nerysghemor5781 thanks for the reply, I really appreciate all the insight!
      While we may disagree on some points here and there (I’m part of the LGBTQ community, so as I’m still kind of discovering my own ideology) I *so* agree that what matters most is that we are good to one another, empathetic and compassionate, just like you said we agree that people each have inherent worth, and I love that. Also agree that legality =/= morality, which I think people really lose sight of nowadays
      I wish you all the luck on your faith journey! ♥️

    • @nerysghemor5781
      @nerysghemor5781 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@oogleoo No problem and thanks for the kind reply. :-) Some might consider me to be under the LGBTQ umbrella for being asexual, though others would not and I can understand the arguments for both. But I'm not one for being put in a box based on a trait I had no control over, so I wouldn't say I'm part of the community. It seems to run in my family. XD My late uncle, who was gay, was politically even further to the right of me and would make an activist have a total mental Blue Screen of Death and same with his partner, who is still living and whom I still consider part of the family. (He was not Christian due to bad experiences in the church many decades ago, but was tolerant of any Christians who weren't total a-holes.)
      You remind me of one of my closest friends, with whom I'm also able to have very rational, civil conversations where sometimes we agree, sometimes we don't. We have REALLY lost the ability to have civil disagreements as a society and I think that's one of the things that's going to do us in if we don't stop all of the nasty divisive behavior and just CHILL.

  • @comb528491
    @comb528491 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

    Where would you categorize the ethninationalists that identify as Christian without believing in any Christian doctrines, but only identify because the religion for them is simply a symbol of "Western Culture" (e.g. Ayaan Hirsi Ali)? They seem to have attributes of the far right AND far left of the spectrum

  • @anjalisartistry870
    @anjalisartistry870 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +22

    I am neither conservative nor progressive. I choose the best out of both worlds.

    • @EmilinkoHoward
      @EmilinkoHoward 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Same.

    • @itznoah-live6881
      @itznoah-live6881 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      So, not Christian? I'm confused by what you mean

    • @thedomainofsealteamaqua
      @thedomainofsealteamaqua 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      how progressive? lgbtqia+, abortion, etc is all completely wrong under all circumstances

    • @casperryborg4869
      @casperryborg4869 หลายเดือนก่อน

      That fence must hurt

  • @mmtoss6530
    @mmtoss6530 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    Degree 2 is unfathomably based.

    • @clouds570
      @clouds570 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      thoughts on slavery?

    • @mmtoss6530
      @mmtoss6530 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      @@clouds570 slavery is kinda cringe, especially Muslim slave trade.

    • @Hardcore_Remixer
      @Hardcore_Remixer 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      ​@@clouds570 Nah, just not needing to rewrite the Bible every few decades because some liberals get offended by it.

    • @freshystyle
      @freshystyle 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@clouds570Everyone was a slave. There isn't a single race that hasn't suffered, nowadays slavery is bad for the economy.

  • @Scarecrow-sq1vh
    @Scarecrow-sq1vh 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    While I get this was supposed to be a general overview of liberal vs conservative Christianity, it should be noted that it is a lot more complex than this. Based just on this video I would have a tough time placing myself on the scale as I do believe that Christians have absolutely caused problems and are seeing many of the results of those problems in the modern day, such as Purity Culture (which was used as an image in phase 1 of Liberalism). On the other hand I do more align with Conservative beliefs. While I won't say that having a female pastor means the congregation is a "false Church," I will agree that it does go against what the Bible says. On the Conservative side I would personally flip or merge degrees 2 & 3, but I understand why you have it this way. Again, I'm not trying to argue anything here, just pointing out the oversimplification which I do believe was part of the purpose of this video. Keep up the good work.

  • @urielmontijo2505
    @urielmontijo2505 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    You should add in the description of the sources you use for your videos. I find it would be useful for your viewers to have those resources.

  • @yoitsrob
    @yoitsrob 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Good video. There's a church near me that does exactly what you outlined in stage 2. They have interesting stuff on their sign outside, supporting all sorts of worldly issues like the starbucks unions or stuff like "its the bi-ble not the hetero-ble"

  • @IDoThings490
    @IDoThings490 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    Shoutout the Redeemed Zoomer for making me even more of an atheist!

    • @BrandonBDN
      @BrandonBDN 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Happy 15th birthday!

    • @JustaJackalope
      @JustaJackalope 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      :(

    • @Pikog777
      @Pikog777 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You could’ve just chosen not to watch the video @great4722 😂
      It’s fine to be an atheist but we don’t give a fuck if you’re angry at a religious TH-camr for making a video 😊

  • @tiger5869
    @tiger5869 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    I used to have Christian guilt but instead of progressing I decided that if I don't want people to associate Christianity with Christians who use the Bible as an excuse to harass others, then I should stop associating Christianity with Christians who use the Bible as an excuse to harass others

    • @featurebroadcast297
      @featurebroadcast297 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Never judge a philosophy based on its abuse. Judge it on the philosopher.

    • @williamverhagen5210
      @williamverhagen5210 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@featurebroadcast297 there is a point in treating philosophy in how it's used though you could draw up the most utopian of idea's but if they only ever lead to hell they are bad ideas

    • @samueldimmock694
      @samueldimmock694 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@williamverhagen5210 The ease with which a philosophy is misunderstood could be considered part of what makes the philosophy good or bad, though it may be more accurate to consider it an aspect of the presentation (though you can argue about where the line is drawn).
      And most utopian ideas that I've ever seen are pretty bad ideas, though sometimes that's just because they assume humans are capable of acting the way they should all the time.

    • @nerysghemor5781
      @nerysghemor5781 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      That's a good description of the conclusion I came to! I'd call myself a 0.5 progressive but one of the key reasons I will go no further than that is that while I am pained by the real problems with Christian behavior, I don't view that as an inherent problem with Christianity itself. Rather, it's our sin problem.

    • @samueldimmock694
      @samueldimmock694 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@nerysghemor5781 Yeah, I think that's a fairly normal conclusion to reach.

  • @ventiankraus980
    @ventiankraus980 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I'm 0 - 4 on the conservative side for the most part. I live by Scripture, take it literal, but focus on spreading The Gospel. The damning people for a theological difference is something I can't get around. The Lord literally says whoever calls their brother a fool is in danger of hellfire. We've got to strive to be more humble. Thanks for your videos, brother. Very interesting topics.

    • @Pikog777
      @Pikog777 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      So are you a creationist?

    • @ventiankraus980
      @ventiankraus980 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Pikog777 I'm Christian, yes.

    • @Pikog777
      @Pikog777 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@ventiankraus980 that ain’t what I said blud. Do you genuinely fucking believe that the earth was created in 6 days?

    • @ventiankraus980
      @ventiankraus980 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @mcdonalds3798 a creationist is someone who believes in a creator, Im Christian so I answered yes. Now you're asking am I a young earth creationist, to which I will also reply yes. No need cussing and being rude because you're vocabulary is limited.

  • @modernwar2ghostrp
    @modernwar2ghostrp หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    As someone who actually can side with ethnonationalism in many cases (just to preserve your country and culture) and a Christian I don't really see how this is necessarily bad. I'm not saying commit crimes against humanity but what's wrong with Japan not allowing in Haitians?

  • @tzgardner
    @tzgardner 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    I think Jesus would be a level 3 Conservative. Jesus knows what his word is and would trust it to be true because he's God. He was at the beginning of Creation and knows how he made it.

    • @pedroguimaraes6094
      @pedroguimaraes6094 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I don't think that He would consider someone in level +2, +1 or even -1 to be damned tbh. To me is more important to affirm infallibility than to affirm inerrancy (although i affirm both).

    • @tzgardner
      @tzgardner 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah, and -2 you're really skating on the edge because if you drop into -3, I would think that is heresy. Then -4 and -5 I wouldn't even consider Christian. The whole point of being Christian is believing in Christ. Hence the name. In fact I think he mentioned that starting in -3 as well. @@pedroguimaraes6094

  • @SirOrangeVillian
    @SirOrangeVillian 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    Even as a Non-Christian, I think you did a great job with this video.

    • @harrywitney3501
      @harrywitney3501 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Hey, you don't have to answer if you don't want to obviously but why don't you want to be a Christian ?

  • @Labrador_Productions1
    @Labrador_Productions1 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

    I think conservative degrees 1 and 2 should be switched. There are plenty of people who ardently defend inerrancy, but they've been bitten by the egalitarian bug. Other than that, pretty solid explanation, I think.

    • @PvlmVIsHere
      @PvlmVIsHere 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I mean any set of diverse positions on a general topic put in a form of a bimodal spectrum is gonna be simplified the heck out of so there's so much things that could be moved around and still kinda make sense, right?

    • @Labrador_Productions1
      @Labrador_Productions1 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @PvlmVIsHere I totally agree. I could nit pick a few other things but I understand that it is a very generalized video. But in my experience, I think there are more people who affirm inerrancy and female pastors than people who reject inerrancy and female pastors. If you reject inerrancy, then you dont really have any reason to reject female pastors imo. Of course, there is plenty of overlap, but generally I think this is true.
      But since zoomer comes from the mainline, I can understand why he set it this way because female pastors are far more common than the more conservative denominations.

    • @samueldimmock694
      @samueldimmock694 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@Labrador_Productions1 Rejecting inerrancy means that you allow the Bible to be wrong about things that don't really matter to the main purposes of the Bible. Teaching about how to run a church is unlikely to fall into that category - arguments for allowing female pastors while still following the Bible generally claim that those instructions were given to a particular church in a particular context, and while the underlying principle still applies to us today, obedience to that principle looks very different for us than it did for them. Whether the argument succeeds is a different matter, but it doesn't have much to do with the truth or falsity of biblical inerrancy.

    • @josephnatali8802
      @josephnatali8802 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thought the same thing.

  • @carrieanderson132
    @carrieanderson132 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The conclusion of this video is a good indicator in where should we be in our faith. Politics is important yes but let it not take over our faith 😊

  • @auraguard0212
    @auraguard0212 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    You can be Liberal AND Conservative in the way you have it laid out. The Monsignore I remember best at my church was Liberal 2, Conservative 1-2.

    • @Mae_Dastardly
      @Mae_Dastardly 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Liberal and conservatism isn't nessessarily an either or situation ya can take elements from both sides, be liberal about some things and conservative on others, for instance I'm liberal on most social and economic issues but generally side with conservatives when it comes to matters of property and gun rights aswell as the general values that conservatives push such as the value of personal discipline and work ethic, something I greatly wish that my liberal to left leaning friends would would take more seriously and stop dismissing as " harmful capitalist work culture"

  • @TheSpaceHobo
    @TheSpaceHobo 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    aaw man. That Spiderman meme got me good. As someone who was in the early stages of progressive "Christianity" until I decided to read the bible and started to believe in it. I notice how I became more conservative and I would say I'm in the third degree, who deals with and loves to debate/challenge friends who are in the 4 degree of conservativism (not debating in self-righteousness but in the loving way of seeking the truth of God).

  • @OswaldM_14
    @OswaldM_14 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    As an ethnonationalist, that aspect of myself does not really influence my religious beliefs. I dont see how it is part of Degree 5 when ethnonationalism isn't religious for most of us.
    It's like saying "and here at degree 4 we have the MAGA conservatives..."

    • @Michael_the_Drunkard
      @Michael_the_Drunkard 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      True, he himself said it wasn't about politics

  • @itsprotik60
    @itsprotik60 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Me being a Baptist Christian, when the scale was going towards 5 on the Progressive side, I was cringing so bad that how can these so called Progressives claim themselves as Christians when they question the Bible, when they say that there might be another way of salvation like bro! The Bible is our foundation as Christians no matter what denomination you belong to and we receive salvation only through Lord Jesus Christ. He is is the only way.

  • @Lemonade68524
    @Lemonade68524 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Engaging with the spectrum of Christian beliefs, it's fascinating to see how theological perspectives evolve. From conservative Christians emphasizing biblical inerrancy to progressive Christians challenging traditional views, the landscape is diverse. The discussion often centers around the role of women in ministry, biblical authority, and interpretations of creation. It's crucial to approach these differences with respect, recognizing that beliefs are nuanced and shaped by various factors. Ultimately, the question arises: Where would Jesus stand in this complex theological landscape?

    • @BlooMonkiMan
      @BlooMonkiMan 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I don't think Jesus has a body count, so I'd assume the answer to "where would he stand" is "against the conquest and violence the church has caused since his passing"

    • @maxe624
      @maxe624 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Jesus used his position to argue for social justice but as far as I know he didnt deny scripture so he is a progressive 2

    • @M00NL9GHT
      @M00NL9GHT 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Jesus was very progressive at his time. It's undeniable that he was a social justice warrior himself. That's all I could say. Tbh, I wonder where'd he'd stand too. I feel like he'd hate what most conservative Christians nowadays are doing the same way he'd hate what most liberal Christians are doing. I feel like Jesus was he's own person, like, independent perhaps? He wouldn't necessarily subscribe to one belief or the other. He's like, a middle man.

  • @joegibbskins
    @joegibbskins 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    I am a “progressive” Christian. It’s not because I feel any guilt over historical Christianity or a need to deconstruct inherited wisdom, or doubt the scripture. It’s because I find it impossible to recognize the message of the Gospel in most American Protestant Churches. It seems like a lot of evangelicals in particular are more interested in social cohesion and order than actually following Christ.

    • @joegibbskins
      @joegibbskins 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Which isn’t to say that social cohesion and order aren’t good things in and of themselves - they just aren’t Christian

    • @lostlostlostinmusic
      @lostlostlostinmusic 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      agreed

    • @EmilinkoHoward
      @EmilinkoHoward 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I agree.
      I'm a lapsed Catholic (who wants to get back in the church and practice more) and I classify myself as progressive, although I respect the traditions and conventions of the church.

    • @salishheights2320
      @salishheights2320 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Respectfully, may I ask what the Gospel is? The definition seems to depend on the person using it. Just trying to understand the word/concept, and what is unrecognizable about it.

    • @joshuaborem7063
      @joshuaborem7063 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      How do you see the Protestants as “more interested in social cohesion”? How do you get to those thoughts?

  • @FriarJoe66
    @FriarJoe66 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Historically speaking, I don’t think it’s fair to say that Christian Ethno-nationalists are a primarily on-line phenomenon

    • @pmcshow44
      @pmcshow44 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Christian ethnonationalism is a very historically narrow phenomenon. It basically only came around as WASP supremacist worldviews in the 19th century. Even during the height of colonialism, churches (mainly Catholic, but protestants too) were the ones opposing the mistreatment both of the indigenous and African slaves.

  • @YellowBelles
    @YellowBelles 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Really love the end "where would Jesus be" because that is correct! When we are lost, look to the cross, not the world. Think of the Lord and not our own thoughts nor understanding. Appreciate this truly ♡

  • @silusmkhwananzi3121
    @silusmkhwananzi3121 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    Wait I have a question
    Isn't YEC mostly a recent protestant thing. I have never met an Orthodox or Catholic priest who affirms YEC.

    • @vladprus4019
      @vladprus4019 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Its more complicated.
      It was common back in the day before people actually knew the science between evolution and geology, but since than no official Catholic statements said that only young Earch creation is acceptable, some stating explicitly that evolution is acceptable. Idk about Orthodox situation since Orthodox Church is way more decentralized so I believe there is no "official" stance on that matter.

    • @subzero4190295
      @subzero4190295 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      YEC has been the position of the Church since its inception, only changing around the time of the enlightenment. People like augustine denied the literal view of genesis 1, but because he believed the universe was younger, not older

    • @freefolkofthenuminousoccid9054
      @freefolkofthenuminousoccid9054 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      YEC was the universal view of the church until Charles Lyell and Higher Criticism in mid late 19th century

    • @BabyBugBug
      @BabyBugBug 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I am a Catholic and I have settled on intelligent design. Most people in the intelligent design world are either old earth creationists or theological evolutionists, which honestly overlap greatly. This is basically me after reading incessantly on the issue.

  • @shilpidey3184
    @shilpidey3184 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    Such an amazing video - succinct, accurate, and thoughtful. Great job as always, RZ!

  • @AquaTomMovies
    @AquaTomMovies 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Brilliant video! I was personally stunned that anything beyond 2 to the right could even loosely be defined as Christian... keep up the good work! Also *God 0:32

  • @zaktheinquisitor5769
    @zaktheinquisitor5769 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Conservative Christian of the first degree here. Great Video Zoomer, keep at it!

  • @ArtoriusGiangus
    @ArtoriusGiangus 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    I thought I was relatively conservative, but actually I am in 0 stage,which means I am neither liberal nor very conservative😂 I don‘t accept LGBT in churches, but I can somehow accept female pastors

    • @JetTheOneAndOnly
      @JetTheOneAndOnly 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Same, I was confused when I dropped off the spectrum. Though I don’t support it because I don’t care, it’s just in the context Paul was writing in, like three fourths of the pastors were female. I think he was talking about women talking and gossiping during service, which was causing chaos in the Corinthian church. Then again, don’t trust me, I’m a person on the internet 😂

  • @bigredghost
    @bigredghost 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I think the “0 divide” is views concerning divorce more so than female preachers.

    • @thedomainofsealteamaqua
      @thedomainofsealteamaqua 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      there are two, and only two grounds for a divorce, but there STILL ARE GROUNDS.

  • @Astrocussy
    @Astrocussy 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    5:34 good job bro, you projected the side your don't agree with as the soy wojak, and you made the side you agree with the Chad, good job, you won the imaginary argument, 11/10

  • @tomlem64
    @tomlem64 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Good job! and funny, too. In addition to having Biblical inerrancy at stage 2 on the conservative side (I think I would have put that at stage 1 with infallibility right in the middle), I would have put "Bibilical literalism" with the creation order people at stage 3 or 4. While we are used to hearing the social gospel from the liberal side, there is a very vocal "creation order" group these days within archconservatve Christianity. We used to call them "Fundamentalists", but these days the young earth people seem to be even further to the extreme.
    Perhaps confessional christianity should be right in the middle. If you cannot confirm the Nicene Creed, as one large denomination recently said they were not prepared to do, you may still be able to claim to be Christian but you have put yourself solidly outside the umbrella of "Historic Christianity"