John, I left the church over 20 years ago (my family history goes back to the pioneer days). What you do on this channel is affirming the reasons and more of why I had to leave the church. I especially take interest in your shows exhibiting the damage Mormonism does to lives and families. The list is long of the damage it does to people (so many don't realize how much). Your talents with communication and interview temperament skills are second to none! You're AWESOME!!! Thanks you, John Dehlin
This was by far the most important episode I have ever seen on the Book Of Mormon and Joseph Smith. Thank you for providing valuable information into the life of Joseph Smith who along with the LDS Church, deceive millions of people.
Absolutely loved this episode!! I think understanding who Joseph Smith was as a person, his environment, and his culture is imperative to understanding how Mormonism came about. Once I started being aware of all the things you covered in this episode was when my shelf really cane crashing down- especially as I started linking all the things you talk about in the last :20 to how it connected to Joseph Smith personally via his culture and environment. It created a picture ofMormon origins that, to me, are clearly man made. I’ve waited for the perfect podcast episode to present to my children and husband that will start “from the beginning “ and this is it! Thank you!!
I left the church when I was 16, I am now 38. This is the first time I am learning about all of this. It’s nice to be validated in my unsettled feelings from back then. Thank you for spreading the truth.
Oh my word. JS followed the formula of Benjamin Franklin to a tee! Thank you so much for presenting this! You’ve connected so many dots to help us understand the mindset of JS and his family and peers!
Absolutely excellent podcast. The most important podcast I’ve ever seen on Mormonism. In-depth, crystal clear, verifiable. This is first rate, A+ journalism. This is as fine as it gets. Thank you John.
Excellent summary of the factual details that led to Joseph Smith stories and development of early Mormonism. Hopefully i pray, more deceived Mormons see this and act on it accordingly. Thank you, John Delin.
This format works very well, John, and you did a great job. I really believe that content that you and other “Real Church History Heroes” produce will live on long after your lives are over, and make a difference.
Thank for explaining these issues so well. I read the CES letter recently, but this presentation helped me have a better understanding of how Joseph Smith came up with the Book of Mormon. I was a semi active Mormon until the Covid shutdown, then I was an inactive Mormon doing research on so many questions I’ve had my whole life. Let’s just say, I will not be returning to the Mormon church.
I am a Catholic. When I learned of how the Book of Mormons I was astounded. As a young teen I was on vacation with my grandparents, and we got in a wreck in southern Utah. We were transported to Kanab, Utah and stayed there for about a week while the car was being repaired. It is a small Mormon town and the people there were some of the nicest people you’d ever want to meet. They invited us into their homes, and the local restaurants new we were out of towners and gave my grandparents a break on our tab (my grandfather refused to not pay) I am astounded that these people could be that deceived, but again some of the greatest people I ever met.
They were nice because they hoped to convert you. If you had come out as "anti-Mormon", you would have seen a different face of Mormons.
3 ปีที่แล้ว +2
I have somehow fallen down the rabbit hole of learning all about Joseph Smith and the origins of Mormonism. This is so helpful for us newbies that didn’t grow up with all of the stories. Thank you!
Great job! In addition to the question about why the U & T was needed if Joseph had a working peepstone, there is a question of why Joseph even needed the plates. He did not use the plates for any of the modern BoM. By Josephliver's own comments the plates were hidden out in the woods most of the time when they were translating.At most, the plates were in the room with Joseph and Oliver but covered by a blanket. Unless Joseph's hat and the plates had an early form of Bluetooth connectivity, all he really needed was the seer stone.
If I was Joseph, I would have been all "What? We don't even need the stinking plates? You can just dictate it all to me through a rock in a hat? You mean that I just drug those heavy suckers all over the place for nothing? Thanks a lot God. Go find yourself another prophet. I quit!"
@@mylesmarkson1686 I think Moroni would have been the one who was pissed. Can you imagine dragging those plates from Central America to Upstate NY? Maybe he had the plates strapped to the back of a tapir or something.
@@evannoynaert Yeah, I don't know how they would have survived without those tapirs back then. From what I understand, they were even better than horses!
Love your work, John. I'm still navigating a mixed faith marriage, well she has faith . . . It's very difficult. I'm surrounded by TBM's constantly, and I need this community.
Thank you for putting this information together for us here! This video for Understanding Mormonism did EXACTLY as advertised. I feel like I understand Joseph Smith and his motivations for making the choices he made. I finally feel settled about my questions that were disregarded by the Latter-Day Saint Mormon church all through my childhood and young adulthood. I feel as if I was floating in uncertainty for my whole life and now I am finally able to walk on solid ground. All of this information makes sense to me. I accept this information as true history. Thank you!
Excellent presentation, and thank you for your time in preparing it. I knew this in the last five years or so, however, you organized it into a concise outline. My shelf started collapsing with a hint of doubt many years ago when I bought the book: The Ecclesiastical History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by B.H. Roberts or maybe it was one of the volumes of The Comprehensive History of LDS, where I read about the doubts of B.H. Roberts. I have read about a third of the way through the book "Studies of the Book of Mormon" by B.H. Roberts. I started to delve into more research around 2005. I was at convert at about 18 when I joined the LDS church in 1974, and and then decided to serve a mission at 24 while still serving in the military. I was always active and then decided I had, had enough. I disassociated myself from the church about six years ago. I had to be honest with myself. By the way, I really enjoyed Grant Palmer's books: "An Insider's view of Mormon Origins" and the "Incomparable Jesus."
For those wondering the location of the island of Comoros and its Capital, coincidentally called "Moroni" mentioned at 49:52 , it is just North of the island of Madagascar and East of Mozambique. Pull up Google maps and you'll find it.
This is literally legit. I looked it up myself and was shocked 😳 My whole life I have been lied to. And now I have to undo 27 years of indoctrination of the Church. The more I have been having an open mind and doing my research, it only confirms more to me that the church was about money since the beginning as much as it is today. 😒 I wish I could get all my tithing money back 😖
@@abrilanderson498, you are not alone! I spent 42 years of my life devoting faith, money, time energy and much much more. I even served in a mission and brought more people to the cult. I feel so devastated about it. I hope the truth keeps coming to more and more people. Thanks Mr. Dehlin. You the voice of thousands of LDS deceived members!
John and Gerardo, thanks for taking the time to make this video. I have just started doing research on Joseph Smith. This clear and concise video has been very educational. I appreciate how you presented the information in a way that allows people to make their own decisions about the church.
I left the church years ago and blamed every horrible event happening to me in " life" because I left the church. I became very ill suddenly 4 years ago and doctors had no answers for me. I suddenly lost all functions of thinking, ability to drive going from normal to feeling sick and couldn't tie my shoes in a matter of minutes. I was scared, frantic and confused what was going on with me. Nuero diagnosis was I suffered from inflammation in my brain , unknown cause. I called for a blessing and the priesthood came over. They were baffled and I heard small talk that I needed a hospital. My mormon family member thought i was possessed..lol.. I wasn't myself and unable to think but I knew I wasn't possessed.. I then lost all faith, and again blamed leaving the church and this was the punishment. I recovered slowly however I recovered a changed person.. I couldn't explain why i felt such shame in my life. Until i had a sudden memory of when i was a child living in a small idaho lds town. I remember i was told i couldn't take the sacrament one Sunday. The reason being was because three boys from the church; friends of my brother were in the house one day after school. I came home like normal typical latchkey kid, typical early eighties child.. I was grabbed and tied up and my pants were taken down. They were laughing as they placed their privates on me. These boys were fellow lds kids, went to my church seen them in church and they were trustworthy, I guess Not going into more detail, but yes, I told on them. I told my mom, like normal. All three boys were taken to the Bishop... My mother was upset but what was more upsetting was I was punished for being home alone around boys that day. I was 9 going on 10 years old!!! I remember wanting to kill myself because of the shame. I barried that memory and it wasn't until I became better from a illness is when I remembered... I never knew where all this shame came from but the small whispers and looks and misguided information is the only explanation...however never questioned my faith in God. So all that shame came from that time. that and many other memories creeps up every now and again but, I'm ok with it. I'm in therapy, and have been for two years so I'm in good standing with my mental health. However I won't forget the feelings and beliefs I was going to pay for this somehow Now, I feel like this life is in my hands without influence and without guilt. Thank you for clearing up all the scrambling, now I know I'm truly ok and I no longer walk around hoping I did the right thing.
Nicely done John. So often information is all a jumble out there. This was a nice syllogistic chain of reasoning and direct evidence as reported by the people you quoted. The information was logically arranged to identify the historical realities that you have presented. Thanks to those who assisted you in this effort to document and memorialize the history as it is known.
Hi, i was raised in a Spanish speaking branch my whole life in the San Francisco area and since i was little the whole god thing did not add up, it wasn't until i atended seminary that i actually focused on the book of Mormon and its words and it was then when i started to understand the churches bigotry and racism within the church members fast-forward Trump times I was not wrong racism was very well entangled into the church core find it disturbing when nowadays most of the membership comes from Latin American countries
And as Katie pointed out in her podcast interview with you, another problem with the BOM is that in the book of Jacob he says "brethren Adieu"... that's French.
Yes! Even as a kid, I knew what that word meant and it always confused me but I didn't want to question it too much. I wish I had, it probably would have saved me some years of pain that comes with faith deconstruction.
Love all this information. Very thorough. Thank you so much for putting this together. I wonder if any actual lds members will really listen to this though. But I think it's a great listen for us exmormons and for people who have never been in the church
Nah, it's all just the ramblings of an excommunicated Mormon-hating mad-man who is doing Satan's bidding now. In the last days, even the very elect will be deceived you know!
@@Sayheybrother8 I'm not sure if you understood my previous comment or not, but I've seen enough of these apologists on message boards to know exactly how they will respond to this video. I was just beating them to the punch. But I'm right with ya there Clivey--This video ought to be enough to convince anyone, but as you and I know, it probably won't have much luck. Isn't John the best? He really covers a lot of ground and makes a good case in this video, and there isn't much of a (sane) defense that I could see one putting up against it.
@@Apbt-rv7zw Thanks Apbt, but John really nailed it with this video. I think it should be shown in every church-house, and then the truth can finally set them free!
Amazing. I hope you continue with this style of videos! I was semi-aware of treasure digging but having it presented like this makes helps me understand so much better! So helpful!
I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this, but the Comoros islands (now an independent country off the east coast of Africa) still has Moroni for its capital and largest town. I noticed that as a kid when I first encountered LDS church members and their story. I didn’t realize that this coincidence wasn’t quite so.
This is one of the most important episodes of Mormon stories podcasts imo. I am currently in faith transition and there are three main issues that kicked off my faith restructuring. First is the polygamy of Joseph. Second, blacks and the priesthood and how it delegitimizes revelation. And lastly, how the story of the Book of Mormon coming forth fits perfectly into the footprint of his treasure digging past. It’s eerily similar in so many ways to the scams he and others perpetrated on others, from a guardian angel, Moroni, to treasure, the plates, the peep stone he used for translation, it being buried in the hills, and on and on. It’s just too coincidental to be true.
It makes them feel foolish and like life has been waisted (I know from personal experience). Many Mormons don't know what to do once acknowledging the lie we've been told our entire lives.
If you read the Book of Mormon you’ll find it lines directly with the Bible, and I don’t have to accept Joseph Smith or Mormon teaching to say so. The Book stands on its own merits
My first time posting to Mormon Stories. Brief personal introduction. I grew up in the Mormon church but never bought into the truth claims and left at age 17 in 1964. I was pretty much agnostic from that point on until I read On the Origin of Species by Charles Darwin and numerous other books on evolution, science, and religion starting in 2010 at age 63. I soon realized that what I was taught as a child about humans being created separately from animals (non-human animals) was a load of crap. I became openly atheist in 2011 and have been rewiring my brain since then to align with current human knowledge and how I want to relate to the world now. It feels great to count myself as someone who knows that I am “in this world and of this world,” instead of “in this world but not of this world.” Oh, if only I would have been fortunate enough to come to understand this as a child, but I’ve already had 10 years to bask in the glow of real knowledge since 2010. The rest of my life will always be rich in new understanding, so I feel very fulfilled and alive regardless. Some comments about this new format. I first started listening to Mormon Stories at the end of 2019. I live in senior housing and I shared the 3 MS CES J. Runnells interviews with 2 agnostic people (1 man, 1 woman) here about 2 months ago, but neither one could get past the 2nd episode and the man was a bit cranky about having to listen to it. Comments by my listeners were that it was too confusing, and the story line jumped all over the place. My conclusion was that it’s too hard for non-Mormons to listen to interviewees talk for 30-45 minutes establishing their Mormon cred, loss of faith, etc. Then they hear references to numerous unknown Mormon authorities and organizations (who is Elder Holland? what is FAIR and is it pro or anti-Mormon? etc.) The new format, pretty much stating the facts without going into a lot of non-essential details, should make the stories more understandable to the average person. I think it’s very important that this info gets out to everyone, not just ex-Mormons or those in a faith crisis. I’ll be doing my best to spread it around. Thanks John Dehlin, MS staff, and MS contributors for your work pushing this forward.
Keep looking. Humans do not derive from monkeys. Humans are their own species. If you want to be a monkey, be my guest. You’re better than that though. Additionally, Dawkins nor Darwin’s writings explain the formation of planetary systems that transcend terraform and aquatic phenomenon. These men (Dawkins and Darwin before him) only give you pieces of the grand puzzle. And sadly, some of those pieces are misplaced. Think about it. And good luck.
So sad. If Joseph Smith Senior and family had just concentrated on working their farm, they probably never would have lost it. Maybe they would have been as prosperous as Martin Harris. At least, Joseph Junior never would have met Emma and taken her away from her family.
I would also add, an understanding of the "burned over district" is critical to understanding mormonism. This is of course tied to superstition, witch craft, folk magic, and religious visionary hype. At the point that Joseph Smith and Sydney Rigdon came along with mormonism on the Western Reserve (upstate New York, Ohio, "burned over district") the folks who lived there ( as Sidney Rigdon put it ) were "rife for a new religion"; and they had already believed about everything else out there believable-- hence, "the burned over district". This channel is going to be facsinating; thank you! Looking forward as we continue; very excited.
My mother edited a history of our local church( east lyme ct) in 1950 . Elijah Mack ( Joseph Smith's grandfather) was the founding pastor.much persecuted and jailed ( almost starving) this is the atmosphere that shaped his parents world . eventually most of the church immigrated to Vermont and new york
@@scottpurves no I don't think so...I will try to see if I can find my copy and send pics of the relevant pages ...also my sister saw the gee family Bible with Joseph Smith's birth recorded with a question mark after Joseph Smith Sr...quite a family dynamic for a young family on the frontier...my # is 860 857 8132 I respond to txt best
Thank u for all your research and studies of this for all of us that never believed it in the first place. Married into a Mormon family. Pray for them all to come to the truth of this fraud folk magic. Come to the truth of God our Creator and His Son Jesus Christ the Word of God and His Holy Spirit He gives His Children.
If I had been Issac Hale, I would have tracked Joseph to the ends of the earth; I then would have dispatched him, placing him into the deep places of the earth where no scryer nor seer would his body never again discover (peep stone be damned)! I feel so sad for Issac hale; and Emma!
As you say: much of the background of Joseph Smith and the originate of the Book of Mormon is hidden or erased by the authority's of the LDS. It makes the whole story the more interesting. Dr. John Dehlin thanks for your successful studies in these cloudy matter.
Excellent video. I find Captain Kidd a great point of origin to narrate Joseph's fascination with treasure, storytelling, and enchantment. I would say I was in disbelief to see the seer stone display at the church museum; however, little surprises me when it comes to the church's gaslighting. Nevertheless, to those who know, this implies treasure digging and consequently, pretending to see things to commit fraud (as this is basically what the practice entails), constitute "preparation." Preparation for what? Preparation for carrying out the greatest scam in USA religious history I guess. May these videos help people reach the truth, and in so doing, may justice be brought to those the church tried to unscrupulously destroy for defending and bringing to light that very truth, past and present.
Very interesting! I'm not a Mormon but I am a Freemason. I would only add that a lot of this "Hidden treasure guarded by spirits" and using magick to find it comes from the many many grimoires people had back then and passed around. I myself have a collection of just about every grimoire that's in print today...
John you have done an excellent job on what a fraud the LDS church is. I pray that the members will leave this before it's to late. I enjoy your Mormon Stories podcasts.Thank you for being a support when I was leaving the church.
Yes, the main peoples who persecuted Joseph and his family were his fellow homies! --- his treasure digging cohort were angry that Joseph "may have" actually found gold plates and then subsequently cheated them out of the just spoils; they viewed themselves as "forever" partners with Joseph.
"Ultimately our goal for all of this is..... less pain and more joy in the world." John Dehlin has said"I've always wanted to stand for a cause." Well, he has found it. "Less pain and more joy in the world." Ye shall have the information, but be warned, it could seriously mess up your life before ultimately making you free. If anyone heeds me, they might end up being hated and rejected by their own "father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters. Get over it." Luke 14:26 (Morganic Version, France, 2020)
What I really love about John’s great talk is unlike the Book of Mormon he has backed up his talk with facts n verifications! Truly the apologists world view of the BOM is shrinking the more John n other notable scholars truth seek JS n the BOM.
Thank you John! This is well done easy to understand. For over 40 years I have been listening to this church ! And I never felt the BOM to be true. Neither JS. But I never knew why . There is so many people I know, that I would like them to hear this ! But they are so brain wash with the church teachings that would except the truth of the history.
I wanted to continue being Mormon, but the historical facts piling up against Joseph really ended it for me. I asked if I could personally not believe Smith to be a prophet, so long as I shared with no one and carried on a a normal LDS member. Temple and all. I would just follow the modern Church leadership as is and bury what I had discovered. I met 3 men in 3 different offices with progressively nicer looking suits before I was told that it would not be permitted. I am ashamed to say I loved my life so much I was willing to just say "oh well". Nuts how a religion can just take over your mind. Even when the facts hit you in the face. It is my belief that the final suit that decided was actually my savior, and spared my life becoming a giant hypocricy and lie. He spoke as though he agreed with me, and had very pained eyes as he shared he was aware of these issues. At times I still hope he is ok. I will likely never know.
Franklin did not make reference to peep stones or seers in the quote you read. Franklin wrote: “They wander thro’ the Woods and Bushes by Day, to discover the Marks and Signs”. These treasure diggers were looking for visible markers in the environment not using supernatural devices.
It's funny how the writers of the Book of Mormon (Joseph Smith or Nephite prophets) come straight out and say how ashamed they are of their lack of proficency in writing. And then God comes out and curses anyone who mocks their lack of ability.
I’m amazed of the mental gymnastics when I come across comments defending JS. Some say that the city Moroni in Comoros (a real place) could have been a place that Nephi and his family were brought to in their barges to come up for air and supplies because the captain kidd thing has been “debunked”...oh, okay. 🤦🏼♀️
Could you tell me what human couldn’t and wouldn’t get caught up in a rich quick scheme? There’s so much more here. Things you’ve left out that won’t be as accepted by your general audience. Also, no matter how much someone reads or is immersed in stories does not clearly explain to me how Joseph Smith could “write” the Book of Mormon from his own head in the amount of time it was written. Not even close. Thank you for what was good here.
Just watched this podcast. There is actually treasure digging lore discussed within the book of mormon itself in Mormon 1:18-19. I'd copy and paste the text but my app won't let me do that for some reason. So if someone can look it up please text those verses in a reply to this comment. Cheers!
Mormon 1:18 18 And these Gadianton robbers, who were among the Lamanites, did infest the land, insomuch that the inhabitants thereof began to hide up their treasures in the earth; and they became slippery, because the Lord had cursed the land, that they could not hold them, nor retain them again. Mormon 1:19 19 And it came to pass that there were sorceries, and witchcrafts, and magics; and the power of the evil one was wrought upon all the face of the land, even unto the fulfilling of all the words of Abinadi, and also Samuel the Lamanite.
@@NatsaryahTX Thanks for the quote. This is the book of mormon's explanation as to why treasures became slippery. I didn't make the connection to treasure digging lore until after I learned about the treasure digging myths in ben Franklin's and joe Smith's time.
Great presentation! Final conclusion: can someone who have claimed seeing "God the father & Jesus Christ" and who then have stolen a young woman from her family, who was fooling people pretending to be a seer and finally was found guilty in court for breaking the law still be called a prophet of the only true church upon de face of the earth? 🤔 No! I have my own doubts..srry 😂😂
@borrowed tomb .....wow! thou it took me a long time to read ur note(I am a slow reader), I just wanted to thank you for backing me up. And also for sharing relevant information on the "14 parallels". Greetings😇
@@Apbt-rv7zw I respectfully disagree with you.I think you are going to the extremes in trying to compare the life experience of JS with that of Jesus. In and itself your position reveals this...that no matter what ungodly well documented facts are against JS, you will still revere him as the so called "true prophet of God". But that's ok because the constitution protects you and everyonelse to believe in whatever you might wish to believe. 😇
@@Apbt-rv7zw As far as "death for their beliefs" goes, it's quite clear to Christianity why the Savior was crucified. However, in the case of JS and based on the known facts about his character it will be impossible to determine if his death proves that he actually was called by God. It was a very unfortunate event thou to his family and to the people who followed him. And none should be in favor of such a mob that took the law on their own hands and killed a human being.
@@Apbt-rv7zw Throughout history there always been impostors, charlatans, false prophets and all kind of deceivers. For example, people like Jim Jones, David Coresh, Charles Manson and Warren Jeffs all claimed to represent Christ on earth. Currently, Nasson J Garcia jailed and waiting trial in CA accused of serious crimes is revered by followers as the mediator between heaven and earth. Then, what's the one possible common pattern governing people's feelings in order to follow the always self proclaimed :"true prophets of God"? And thou as sincere as they might appeared to be in proclaiming their truth yet we will always lack of a logical explanation to their feelings and emotions and their persual to "share the truth". it seems that no matter what true facts are presented against their leaders, still, they will follow wicked men who in the light of the facts have rather committed all kind of crimes before God and society. From the few just mentioned above some are in jail, others died in jail and some have killed themselves. Can you see the common pattern now? Respectfully 😇
@@Apbt-rv7zw Hi again! I just read your common. But I won yet reply on it. I will do some update on the true facts about your organization's historicity and then I will reply.But at least I know that there are various groups that broke off from the original church organized by JS. And that as cruel as it is for their own children/sister wives some of these groups still practiced poligamy in the US and in Mexico. Don't you think that the current or mainstream LDS church should have been united to this poligamous group assuming that poligamy was a true revelation for our times? The holy bible teaches: "By their fruits ye shall know them"...see the pattern? Hopefully another person will common on your last note, Enjoy the weekend 😇
Thank you John,amazing presentations Hope there is more to come.Guess Joseph gave up treasuredigging,to go on taking money from members,which goes on.How gullible have e all been.❤️
I don't know if this is where Captain Kidd or the authors of the books about him got the names, but the country of Comoros off the east coast of Africa has a city called Moroni
So, in light of all of this, the question begs, what about the other stuff, the papyrus, the mummies (alleged), the Pearl of Great Price? Was Emma complicit in this deception? She had to be. Was she a willing Sister Wife? I am a convert to the LDS church, for almost 11 years. I chose to join and be baptized after a long and protracted investigative process. And even on the day of my baptism, I struggled. My late husband was a member of this church and we met when he was inactive. But I guess he wanted us to have that "eternal" companionship, and he sent the missionaries to me. I believe in God, I believe in Jesus Christ too, but it is no coincidence that a desire of my heart is to know the "Truth", to know what is really going on in this church and what have I done to get here? What is my place in the world in relation to this church. I have been once again seeking the Truth. Its funny, in light of everything that is happening in this world, and the years leading up to this point, I would have thought that Jesus Christ would have returned by now. I felt like those cartoons, waiting for underdog, to "save the world". Even, it seems church leaders have vocalized the seemingly imminent return of the Christ. I suppose that I will be burned at the stake for these comments, but I think about Pontius Pilate, who asked the question: "What is Truth?"
Unbelievable!! I wish I had known this years ago! Especially on my mission, which by the way, I met you John, on my mission in Tempe, AZ back in 89-91. I was a ZL. I'm so glad I left the LDS church. I still keep my of the things I learned such as the word of wisdom and good principles. But those are common sense things, no inspiration from brother Joseph :) Anyway , I'm a fan of yours. Take care!
@@johnlee1352 you go John! Just how you were taught and brainwashed to turn things around on others. It's not the gospel the problem is you, what sins did you commit that you can't stay in the only true church?!? LOL Yes I judge and I really don't care because all churches do is prey on the week and get all their money.
John, I left the church over 20 years ago (my family history goes back to the pioneer days). What you do on this channel is affirming the reasons and more of why I had to leave the church. I especially take interest in your shows exhibiting the damage Mormonism does to lives and families. The list is long of the damage it does to people (so many don't realize how much). Your talents with communication and interview temperament skills are second to none! You're AWESOME!!! Thanks you, John Dehlin
This was by far the most important episode I have ever seen on the Book Of Mormon and Joseph Smith. Thank you for providing valuable information into the life of Joseph Smith who along with the LDS Church, deceive millions of people.
I am one of those who have been deceived and I am not going to be deceived anymore.
Absolutely loved this episode!! I think understanding who Joseph Smith was as a person, his environment, and his culture is imperative to understanding how Mormonism came about. Once I started being aware of all the things you covered in this episode was when my shelf really cane crashing down- especially as I started linking all the things you talk about in the last :20 to how it connected to Joseph Smith personally via his culture and environment. It created a picture ofMormon origins that, to me, are clearly man made. I’ve waited for the perfect podcast episode to present to my children and husband that will start “from the beginning “ and this is it! Thank you!!
I love that this episode showed up on my “recommended page” after seeing the new JS tiktok posted on Facebook 🥰 always trust the Lord’s timing 🙏
I left the church when I was 16, I am now 38. This is the first time I am learning about all of this. It’s nice to be validated in my unsettled feelings from back then. Thank you for spreading the truth.
Oh my word. JS followed the formula of Benjamin Franklin to a tee! Thank you so much for presenting this! You’ve connected so many dots to help us understand the mindset of JS and his family and peers!
Absolutely excellent podcast. The most important podcast I’ve ever seen on Mormonism. In-depth, crystal clear, verifiable. This is first rate, A+ journalism. This is as fine as it gets. Thank you John.
Excellent summary of the factual details that led to Joseph Smith stories and development of early Mormonism. Hopefully i pray, more deceived Mormons see this and act on it accordingly. Thank you, John Delin.
“If they’re peepers” that one cracked me up! 😂 come on Rusty pull your stone out and start peeping! Good job John in breaking down all the silliness.
My brain is screaming “overload”!!! But just this one episode has answered so many of my questions!!!! Thank you thank you!!!
Thanks! 💓
This format works very well, John, and you did a great job. I really believe that content that you and other “Real Church History Heroes” produce will live on long after your lives are over, and make a difference.
Thank for explaining these issues so well. I read the CES letter recently, but this presentation helped me have a better understanding of how Joseph Smith came up with the Book of Mormon. I was a semi active Mormon until the Covid shutdown, then I was an inactive Mormon doing research on so many questions I’ve had my whole life. Let’s just say, I will not be returning to the Mormon church.
This is the website that helped me find my freedom. Thank you for telling the TRUTH about the LDS church.
please explain the book of mormon? the whole podcast is treasure digging. the b of m either is or isn't
I am a Catholic. When I learned of how the Book of Mormons I was astounded. As a young teen I was on vacation with my grandparents, and we got in a wreck in southern Utah. We were transported to Kanab, Utah and stayed there for about a week while the car was being repaired. It is a small Mormon town and the people there were some of the nicest people you’d ever want to meet. They invited us into their homes, and the local restaurants new we were out of towners and gave my grandparents a break on our tab (my grandfather refused to not pay) I am astounded that these people could be that deceived, but again some of the greatest people I ever met.
They were nice because they hoped to convert you. If you had come out as "anti-Mormon", you would have seen a different face of Mormons.
I have somehow fallen down the rabbit hole of learning all about Joseph Smith and the origins of Mormonism. This is so helpful for us newbies that didn’t grow up with all of the stories. Thank you!
Killer video essay. So good to have this summarized so well. Tons of work I’m sure.
So glad you're still going, thank you for this one. definitely fills in a lot of gaps
The Benjamin Franklin description of treasure digging sounds like what happens to Gambling Addicts.
It always amazes me how much hard work John puts into these Mormon Stories. Here is yet another well thought out discussion.
Great job! In addition to the question about why the U & T was needed if Joseph had a working peepstone, there is a question of why Joseph even needed the plates. He did not use the plates for any of the modern BoM. By Josephliver's own comments the plates were hidden out in the woods most of the time when they were translating.At most, the plates were in the room with Joseph and Oliver but covered by a blanket. Unless Joseph's hat and the plates had an early form of Bluetooth connectivity, all he really needed was the seer stone.
If I was Joseph, I would have been all "What? We don't even need the stinking plates? You can just dictate it all to me through a rock in a hat? You mean that I just drug those heavy suckers all over the place for nothing? Thanks a lot God. Go find yourself another prophet. I quit!"
@@mylesmarkson1686 I think Moroni would have been the one who was pissed. Can you imagine dragging those plates from Central America to Upstate NY? Maybe he had the plates strapped to the back of a tapir or something.
@@evannoynaert Yeah, I don't know how they would have survived without those tapirs back then. From what I understand, they were even better than horses!
True that!
Love your work, John. I'm still navigating a mixed faith marriage, well she has faith . . . It's very difficult. I'm surrounded by TBM's constantly, and I need this community.
Thank you for putting this information together for us here! This video for Understanding Mormonism did EXACTLY as advertised. I feel like I understand Joseph Smith and his motivations for making the choices he made. I finally feel settled about my questions that were disregarded by the Latter-Day Saint Mormon church all through my childhood and young adulthood. I feel as if I was floating in uncertainty for my whole life and now I am finally able to walk on solid ground. All of this information makes sense to me. I accept this information as true history.
Thank you!
Thanks so much for this presentation. It is so clear and logically laid out. I really appreciate the way you explained this topic and kept it simple!
Amen thank you for sharing I thankful I left LDS church I have looked up myself I got a lot LDS friends I pray for them
Excellent presentation, and thank you for your time in preparing it. I knew this in the last five years or so, however, you organized it into a concise outline. My shelf started collapsing with a hint of doubt many years ago when I bought the book: The Ecclesiastical History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by B.H. Roberts or maybe it was one of the volumes of The Comprehensive History of LDS, where I read about the doubts of B.H. Roberts. I have read about a third of the way through the book "Studies of the Book of Mormon" by B.H. Roberts.
I started to delve into more research around 2005. I was at convert at about 18 when I joined the LDS church in 1974, and and then decided to serve a mission at 24 while still serving in the military. I was always active and then decided I had, had enough. I disassociated myself from the church about six years ago. I had to be honest with myself. By the way, I really enjoyed Grant Palmer's books: "An Insider's view of Mormon Origins" and the "Incomparable Jesus."
I don't know how a church can have so many issues if it claims to be guided by Prophets, Seers and Revelators. Imagine if it weren't?
Ted Bundy was baptised in the church - how’s that for revelation and discernment?
For those wondering the location of the island of Comoros and its Capital, coincidentally called "Moroni" mentioned at 49:52 , it is just North of the island of Madagascar and East of Mozambique. Pull up Google maps and you'll find it.
This is literally legit. I looked it up myself and was shocked 😳 My whole life I have been lied to. And now I have to undo 27 years of indoctrination of the Church. The more I have been having an open mind and doing my research, it only confirms more to me that the church was about money since the beginning as much as it is today. 😒 I wish I could get all my tithing money back 😖
@@abrilanderson498, you are not alone! I spent 42 years of my life devoting faith, money, time energy and much much more. I even served in a mission and brought more people to the cult. I feel so devastated about it. I hope the truth keeps coming to more and more people.
Thanks Mr. Dehlin. You the voice of thousands of LDS deceived members!
This was awesome! You just fed me knowledge. Thank you!
John and Gerardo, thanks for taking the time to make this video. I have just started doing research on Joseph Smith. This clear and concise video has been very educational. I appreciate how you presented the information in a way that allows people to make their own decisions about the church.
👍🏾 Like this new platform John. Good stuff. Onward, Ever onward!
We are all enlisted 'til the conflict is o'er!
John , Thank you so much for dedicating so much time and effort into these videos. Your presentations have been so eye-opening.
I left the church years ago and blamed every horrible event happening to me in " life" because I left the church.
I became very ill suddenly 4 years ago and doctors had no answers for me.
I suddenly lost all functions of thinking, ability to drive going from normal to feeling sick and couldn't tie my shoes in a matter of minutes.
I was scared, frantic and confused what was going on with me. Nuero diagnosis was I suffered from inflammation in my brain , unknown cause.
I called for a blessing and the priesthood came over.
They were baffled and I heard small talk that I needed a hospital.
My mormon family member thought i was possessed..lol..
I wasn't myself and unable to think but I knew I wasn't possessed..
I then lost all faith, and again blamed leaving the church and this was the punishment.
I recovered slowly however I recovered a changed person..
I couldn't explain why i felt such shame in my life.
Until i had a sudden memory of when i was a child living in a small idaho lds town.
I remember i was told i couldn't take the sacrament one Sunday.
The reason being was because
three boys from the church; friends of my brother were in the house one day after school.
I came home like normal typical latchkey kid, typical early eighties child..
I was grabbed and tied up and my pants were taken down.
They were laughing as they placed their privates on me.
These boys were fellow lds kids, went to my church seen them in church and they were trustworthy, I guess
Not going into more detail, but yes, I told on them.
I told my mom, like normal.
All three boys were taken to the Bishop...
My mother was upset but what was more upsetting was I was punished for being home alone around boys that day.
I was 9 going on 10 years old!!!
I remember wanting to kill myself because of the shame.
I barried that memory and it wasn't until I became better from a illness is when I remembered...
I never knew where all this shame came from but the small whispers and looks and misguided information is the only explanation...however never questioned my faith in God.
So all that shame came from that time.
that and many other memories creeps up every now and again but, I'm ok with it.
I'm in therapy, and have been for two years so I'm in good standing with my mental health.
However I won't forget the feelings and beliefs I was going to pay for this somehow
Now,
I feel like this life is in my hands without influence and without guilt.
Thank you for clearing up all the scrambling, now I know I'm truly ok and I no longer walk around hoping I did the right thing.
Nicely done John. So often information is all a jumble out there. This was a nice syllogistic chain of reasoning and direct evidence as reported by the people you quoted. The information was logically arranged to identify the historical realities that you have presented. Thanks to those who assisted you in this effort to document and memorialize the history as it is known.
Hi, i was raised in a Spanish speaking branch my whole life in the San Francisco area and since i was little the whole god thing did not add up, it wasn't until i atended seminary that i actually focused on the book of Mormon and its words and it was then when i started to understand the churches bigotry and racism within the church members fast-forward Trump times I was not wrong racism was very well entangled into the church core find it disturbing when nowadays most of the membership comes from Latin American countries
More great info John. I, too am looking forward to the “witnesses” stories.
And as Katie pointed out in her podcast interview with you, another problem with the BOM is that in the book of Jacob he says "brethren Adieu"... that's French.
Yes! Even as a kid, I knew what that word meant and it always confused me but I didn't want to question it too much. I wish I had, it probably would have saved me some years of pain that comes with faith deconstruction.
This is such a great overview! I really appreciate the way you provide those additional resources to study. 📚
Love all this information. Very thorough. Thank you so much for putting this together. I wonder if any actual lds members will really listen to this though. But I think it's a great listen for us exmormons and for people who have never been in the church
Nah, it's all just the ramblings of an excommunicated Mormon-hating mad-man who is doing Satan's bidding now. In the last days, even the very elect will be deceived you know!
@@Sayheybrother8 I'm not sure if you understood my previous comment or not, but I've seen enough of these apologists on message boards to know exactly how they will respond to this video. I was just beating them to the punch. But I'm right with ya there Clivey--This video ought to be enough to convince anyone, but as you and I know, it probably won't have much luck. Isn't John the best? He really covers a lot of ground and makes a good case in this video, and there isn't much of a (sane) defense that I could see one putting up against it.
@@Sayheybrother8 It's all my fault Clive. I should've been more clear. I'm just happy to have met another John Dehlin fan!
@@Apbt-rv7zw Thanks Apbt, but John really nailed it with this video. I think it should be shown in every church-house, and then the truth can finally set them free!
@@mylesmarkson1686 I'm certain that was all said "tongue in cheek." John is now my hero.
Amazing. I hope you continue with this style of videos! I was semi-aware of treasure digging but having it presented like this makes helps me understand so much better! So helpful!
Thank you for raising the questions!!
I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this, but the Comoros islands (now an independent country off the east coast of Africa) still has Moroni for its capital and largest town. I noticed that as a kid when I first encountered LDS church members and their story. I didn’t realize that this coincidence wasn’t quite so.
This is one of the most important episodes of Mormon stories podcasts imo. I am currently in faith transition and there are three main issues that kicked off my faith restructuring. First is the polygamy of Joseph. Second, blacks and the priesthood and how it delegitimizes revelation. And lastly, how the story of the Book of Mormon coming forth fits perfectly into the footprint of his treasure digging past. It’s eerily similar in so many ways to the scams he and others perpetrated on others, from a guardian angel, Moroni, to treasure, the plates, the peep stone he used for translation, it being buried in the hills, and on and on. It’s just too coincidental to be true.
As always, brilliant work cheers John, Gerardo and the team
What a great show! Thank you!
I am so happy to hear this one.
Some people do not want to hear the truth.They would need to make many changes in their lives.
It makes them feel foolish and like life has been waisted (I know from personal experience). Many Mormons don't know what to do once acknowledging the lie we've been told our entire lives.
Great episode, John. Loved it. Very interesting points that any honest and fair thinking person can't ignore.
Excellent research, organization of info, and presentation. Your explanations make bs of JS clear and accessible to all. Be well.
This tells that the Bible is correct that a fool trusts his feelings, but a wise one keeps his feet on the ground and looks for the truth.
If you read the Book of Mormon you’ll find it lines directly with the Bible, and I don’t have to accept Joseph Smith or Mormon teaching to say so. The Book stands on its own merits
@@zyriankobani6930 The Book of Mormon is a made up book written by Joseph Smith who was a con man. Do your research!
The treasure seekers were quite literally exemplars of the Sunk Costs Fallacy.
Wow John! This was so good! Lots of information put together in one show. Thanks for all you do you share the truth.
Thanks Tonya!!!
Excellent content and it's laid out perfectly, particularly for those who are unfamiliar with all these things.
Great presentation
My first time posting to Mormon Stories. Brief personal introduction. I grew up in the Mormon church but never bought into the truth claims and left at age 17 in 1964. I was pretty much agnostic from that point on until I read On the Origin of Species by Charles Darwin and numerous other books on evolution, science, and religion starting in 2010 at age 63. I soon realized that what I was taught as a child about humans being created separately from animals (non-human animals) was a load of crap. I became openly atheist in 2011 and have been rewiring my brain since then to align with current human knowledge and how I want to relate to the world now. It feels great to count myself as someone who knows that I am “in this world and of this world,” instead of “in this world but not of this world.” Oh, if only I would have been fortunate enough to come to understand this as a child, but I’ve already had 10 years to bask in the glow of real knowledge since 2010. The rest of my life will always be rich in new understanding, so I feel very fulfilled and alive regardless.
Some comments about this new format. I first started listening to Mormon Stories at the end of 2019. I live in senior housing and I shared the 3 MS CES J. Runnells interviews with 2 agnostic people (1 man, 1 woman) here about 2 months ago, but neither one could get past the 2nd episode and the man was a bit cranky about having to listen to it. Comments by my listeners were that it was too confusing, and the story line jumped all over the place. My conclusion was that it’s too hard for non-Mormons to listen to interviewees talk for 30-45 minutes establishing their Mormon cred, loss of faith, etc. Then they hear references to numerous unknown Mormon authorities and organizations (who is Elder Holland? what is FAIR and is it pro or anti-Mormon? etc.) The new format, pretty much stating the facts without going into a lot of non-essential details, should make the stories more understandable to the average person. I think it’s very important that this info gets out to everyone, not just ex-Mormons or those in a faith crisis. I’ll be doing my best to spread it around. Thanks John Dehlin, MS staff, and MS contributors for your work pushing this forward.
Keep looking. Humans do not derive from monkeys. Humans are their own species. If you want to be a monkey, be my guest. You’re better than that though. Additionally, Dawkins nor Darwin’s writings explain the formation of planetary systems that transcend terraform and aquatic phenomenon. These men (Dawkins and Darwin before him) only give you pieces of the grand puzzle. And sadly, some of those pieces are misplaced. Think about it. And good luck.
@@davesimmons5217 Okay Dave. Have a great day.
I am so excited for these videos! Thanks for doing this!
JosephsMyth pulled a Rabbit out of his Hat and called The Book of Mormon. He did it again and Lo, out popped The Abraham Papyrus.
So sad. If Joseph Smith Senior and family had just concentrated on working their farm, they probably never would have lost it. Maybe they would have been as prosperous as Martin Harris. At least, Joseph Junior never would have met Emma and taken her away from her family.
I would also add, an understanding of the "burned over district" is critical to understanding mormonism.
This is of course tied to superstition, witch craft, folk magic, and religious visionary hype. At the point that Joseph Smith and Sydney Rigdon came along with mormonism on the Western Reserve (upstate New York, Ohio, "burned over district") the folks who lived there ( as Sidney Rigdon put it ) were "rife for a new religion"; and they had already believed about everything else out there believable-- hence, "the burned over district".
This channel is going to be facsinating; thank you! Looking forward as we continue; very excited.
My mother edited a history of our local church( east lyme ct) in 1950 . Elijah Mack ( Joseph Smith's grandfather) was the founding pastor.much persecuted and jailed ( almost starving) this is the atmosphere that shaped his parents world . eventually most of the church immigrated to Vermont and new york
Is there a version that you can link to? I'd like to read that.
@@scottpurves no I don't think so...I will try to see if I can find my copy and send pics of the relevant pages ...also my sister saw the gee family Bible with Joseph Smith's birth recorded with a question mark after Joseph Smith Sr...quite a family dynamic for a young family on the frontier...my # is 860 857 8132 I respond to txt best
Just finished the Matt Harris interview superb. You are hitting grand slams with this kind of content🙏.
Maybe the real treasure was the cult members he found along the way.
I am loving the new and improved set up! Looks and sounds great!
Thank u for all your research and studies of this for all of us that never believed it in the first place. Married into a Mormon family. Pray for them all to come to the truth of this fraud folk magic. Come to the truth of God our Creator and His Son Jesus Christ the Word of God and His Holy Spirit He gives His Children.
If I had been Issac Hale, I would have tracked Joseph to the ends of the earth; I then would have dispatched him, placing him into the deep places of the earth where no scryer nor seer would his body never again discover (peep stone be damned)! I feel so sad for Issac hale; and Emma!
Brilliant! Thank you for your research and easy to understand explanations.
As you say: much of the background of Joseph Smith and the originate of the Book of Mormon is hidden or erased by the authority's of the LDS. It makes the whole story the more interesting. Dr. John Dehlin thanks for your successful studies in these cloudy matter.
Excellent video. I find Captain Kidd a great point of origin to narrate Joseph's fascination with treasure, storytelling, and enchantment. I would say I was in disbelief to see the seer stone display at the church museum; however, little surprises me when it comes to the church's gaslighting. Nevertheless, to those who know, this implies treasure digging and consequently, pretending to see things to commit fraud (as this is basically what the practice entails), constitute "preparation." Preparation for what? Preparation for carrying out the greatest scam in USA religious history I guess. May these videos help people reach the truth, and in so doing, may justice be brought to those the church tried to unscrupulously destroy for defending and bringing to light that very truth, past and present.
Very interesting! I'm not a Mormon but I am a Freemason. I would only add that a lot of this "Hidden treasure guarded by spirits" and using magick to find it comes from the many many grimoires people had back then and passed around. I myself have a collection of just about every grimoire that's in print today...
Excellent work John. Keep it up!
John you have done an excellent job on what a fraud the LDS church is. I pray that the members will leave this before it's to late. I enjoy your Mormon Stories podcasts.Thank you for being a support when I was leaving the church.
Yes, the main peoples who persecuted Joseph and his family were his fellow homies! --- his treasure digging cohort were angry that Joseph "may have" actually found gold plates and then subsequently cheated them out of the just spoils; they viewed themselves as "forever" partners with Joseph.
Wow¡¡!! OMG .THANKS so much ,I'm speechless.
"Ultimately our goal for all of this is..... less pain and more joy in the world."
John Dehlin has said"I've always wanted to stand for a cause."
Well, he has found it. "Less pain and more joy in the world."
Ye shall have the information, but be warned, it could seriously mess up your life before ultimately making you free.
If anyone heeds me, they might end up being hated and rejected by their own "father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters. Get over it."
Luke 14:26 (Morganic Version, France, 2020)
Great images at intro!!! Good content!
What I really love about John’s great talk is unlike the Book of Mormon he has backed up his talk with facts n verifications!
Truly the apologists world view of the BOM is shrinking the more John n other notable scholars truth seek JS n the BOM.
Very informative
Well done as always!
This was so good and enlightening.
Thank you John! This is well done easy to understand. For over 40 years I have been listening to this church ! And I never felt the BOM to be true. Neither JS. But I never knew why . There is so many people I know, that I would like them to hear this ! But they are so brain wash with the church teachings that would except the truth of the history.
I wanted to continue being Mormon, but the historical facts piling up against Joseph really ended it for me. I asked if I could personally not believe Smith to be a prophet, so long as I shared with no one and carried on a a normal LDS member. Temple and all. I would just follow the modern Church leadership as is and bury what I had discovered. I met 3 men in 3 different offices with progressively nicer looking suits before I was told that it would not be permitted. I am ashamed to say I loved my life so much I was willing to just say "oh well". Nuts how a religion can just take over your mind. Even when the facts hit you in the face. It is my belief that the final suit that decided was actually my savior, and spared my life becoming a giant hypocricy and lie. He spoke as though he agreed with me, and had very pained eyes as he shared he was aware of these issues. At times I still hope he is ok. I will likely never know.
Franklin did not make reference to peep stones or seers in the quote you read. Franklin wrote: “They wander thro’ the Woods and Bushes by Day, to discover the Marks and Signs”. These treasure diggers were looking for visible markers in the environment not using supernatural devices.
Awesome presentation.
It's funny how the writers of the Book of Mormon (Joseph Smith or Nephite prophets) come straight out and say how ashamed they are of their lack of proficency in writing. And then God comes out and curses anyone who mocks their lack of ability.
I’m amazed of the mental gymnastics when I come across comments defending JS. Some say that the city Moroni in Comoros (a real place) could have been a place that Nephi and his family were brought to in their barges to come up for air and supplies because the captain kidd thing has been “debunked”...oh, okay. 🤦🏼♀️
Could you tell me what human couldn’t and wouldn’t get caught up in a rich quick scheme? There’s so much more here. Things you’ve left out that won’t be as accepted by your general audience. Also, no matter how much someone reads or is immersed in stories does not clearly explain to me how Joseph Smith could “write” the Book of Mormon from his own head in the amount of time it was written. Not even close. Thank you for what was good here.
We’ll be getting to the Book of Mormon soon!!!
Wow ! Fantastic Dot Con-necting !
Just watched this podcast. There is actually treasure digging lore discussed within the book of mormon itself in Mormon 1:18-19. I'd copy and paste the text but my app won't let me do that for some reason. So if someone can look it up please text those verses in a reply to this comment. Cheers!
Mormon 1:18
18 And these Gadianton robbers, who were among the Lamanites,
did infest the land, insomuch that the inhabitants thereof began
to hide up their treasures in the earth; and they became
slippery, because the Lord had cursed the land, that they could
not hold them, nor retain them again.
Mormon 1:19
19 And it came to pass that there were sorceries, and
witchcrafts, and magics; and the power of the evil one was
wrought upon all the face of the land, even unto the fulfilling
of all the words of Abinadi, and also Samuel the Lamanite.
@@NatsaryahTX Thanks for the quote. This is the book of mormon's explanation as to why treasures became slippery. I didn't make the connection to treasure digging lore until after I learned about the treasure digging myths in ben Franklin's and joe Smith's time.
Bravo, Dr. Dehlin, bravo !
Great presentation!
Final conclusion: can someone who have claimed seeing "God the father & Jesus Christ" and who then have stolen a young woman from her family, who was fooling people pretending to be a seer and finally was found guilty in court for breaking the law still be called a prophet of the only true church upon de face of the earth? 🤔 No! I have my own doubts..srry 😂😂
@borrowed tomb .....wow! thou it took me a long time to read ur note(I am a slow reader), I just wanted to thank you for backing me up. And also for sharing relevant information on the "14 parallels".
Greetings😇
@@Apbt-rv7zw I respectfully disagree with you.I think you are going to the extremes in trying to compare the life experience of JS with that of Jesus. In and itself your position reveals this...that no matter what ungodly well documented facts are against JS, you will still revere him as the so called "true prophet of God". But that's ok because the constitution protects you and everyonelse to believe in whatever you might wish to believe.
😇
@@Apbt-rv7zw As far as "death for their beliefs" goes, it's quite clear to Christianity why the Savior was crucified. However, in the case of JS and based on the known facts about his character it will be impossible to determine if his death proves that he actually was called by God. It was a very unfortunate event thou to his family and to the people who followed him. And none should be in favor of such a mob that took the law on their own hands and killed a human being.
@@Apbt-rv7zw Throughout history there always been impostors, charlatans, false prophets and all kind of deceivers. For example, people like Jim Jones, David Coresh, Charles Manson and Warren Jeffs all claimed to represent Christ on earth. Currently, Nasson J Garcia jailed and waiting trial in CA accused of serious crimes is revered by followers as the mediator between heaven and earth.
Then, what's the one possible common pattern governing people's feelings in order to follow the always self proclaimed :"true prophets of God"? And thou as sincere as they might appeared to be in proclaiming their truth yet we will always lack of a logical explanation to their feelings and emotions and their persual to "share the truth". it seems that no matter what true facts are presented against their leaders, still, they will follow wicked men who in the light of the facts have rather committed all kind of crimes before God and society.
From the few just mentioned above some are in jail, others died in jail and some have killed themselves. Can you see the common pattern now?
Respectfully 😇
@@Apbt-rv7zw Hi again! I just read your common. But I won yet reply on it. I will do some update on the true facts about your organization's historicity and then I will reply.But at least I know that there are various groups that broke off from the original church organized by JS. And that as cruel as it is for their own children/sister wives some of these groups still practiced poligamy in the US and in Mexico. Don't you think that the current or mainstream LDS church should have been united to this poligamous group assuming that poligamy was a true revelation for our times? The holy bible teaches: "By their fruits ye shall know them"...see the pattern?
Hopefully another person will common on your last note,
Enjoy the weekend 😇
Why ex-communicate? Money and Power.
But where are the primary historic references to the assertion that Smith had read about Kidd and talked about finding Kidd's treasures?
This is amazing! Wow
John, do you have a list compiled of books to read? You mention so many that sound interesting to read.
Presented perfectly
I feel like I just walked out of the Truman Show....:-/ former LDS, here
Thank you John,amazing presentations Hope there is more to come.Guess Joseph gave up treasuredigging,to go on taking money from members,which goes on.How gullible have e all been.❤️
Well done!
Thank you
I don't know if this is where Captain Kidd or the authors of the books about him got the names, but the country of Comoros off the east coast of Africa has a city called Moroni
Update: Yep, Moroni is the capital city of the island nation of Comoros! (Technically it's an archipelago, but still)
So, in light of all of this, the question begs, what about the other stuff, the papyrus, the mummies (alleged), the Pearl of Great Price? Was Emma complicit in this deception? She had to be. Was
she a willing Sister Wife? I am a convert to the LDS church, for almost 11 years. I chose to join and be baptized after a long and protracted investigative process. And even on the day of my baptism, I struggled. My late husband was a member of this church and we met when he was inactive. But I guess he wanted us to have that "eternal" companionship, and he sent the missionaries to me. I believe in God, I believe in Jesus Christ too, but it is no coincidence that a desire of my heart is to know the "Truth", to know what is really going on in this church and what have I done to get here? What is my place in the world in relation to this church. I have been once again seeking the Truth. Its funny, in light of everything that is happening in this world, and the years leading up to this point, I would have thought that Jesus Christ would have returned by now. I felt like those cartoons, waiting for underdog, to "save the world". Even, it seems church leaders have vocalized the seemingly imminent return of the Christ. I suppose that I will be burned at the stake for these comments, but I think about Pontius Pilate, who asked the question: "What is Truth?"
RLDS kinds of wants it both ways. Kind of poetically true, but not really literally, I think.
Unbelievable!! I wish I had known this years ago! Especially on my mission, which by the way, I met you John, on my mission in Tempe, AZ back in 89-91. I was a ZL. I'm so glad I left the LDS church. I still keep my of the things I learned such as the word of wisdom and good principles. But those are common sense things, no inspiration from brother Joseph :)
Anyway , I'm a fan of yours. Take care!
@@johnlee1352 . Thank you! Your " christlike" attitude is definitely not a surprise for an LDS. Thank you!! Verrrrry much! ;)
@@johnlee1352 you go John! Just how you were taught and brainwashed to turn things around on others. It's not the gospel the problem is you, what sins did you commit that you can't stay in the only true church?!? LOL
Yes I judge and I really don't care because all churches do is prey on the week and get all their money.