Dan does have a gift for spinning old tall-tales into new, but I agree with Jono, JS didn’t really dig up the plates etc. mainly just moved the rock. And the papyrus was dug up by someone else, so can’t fault JS there 🙂
Jesus warned against adding to the gospel. Joseph Smith's "another gospel of Jesus Christ" is sheer heresy!! It's utterly confounding that Smith was given any creedence at all. Can only conclude that people were dumb & gullible back then. That & his dark arts, biblicy forbidden, seduced people in.
If only I could tell family of this. They would lynch me if I said he was a Necromancer or Occultist. Not a chance they would listen to this. Thank you for your work Mr. Vogel!
@@Scott-t2p no He was not! Give sources! Satan would like you to believe that. Do not confuse your supernatural sources. Satan is nothing but a deceiver and forger. He mimics God so as to bring doubt and confusion. From your comments, you’ve fallen for the deception
@@zachmoss8896 Joseph Smith was a 33rd degree Freemason. In the writings of the Freemasons in the morals and dogma of Freemasonry written by Albert Pike he plainly States that Freemasons worship Lucifer. Joseph Smith also had 34 wives many of them he married in secret Because they were already married. That's called adultery. All of his prophesies failed. He was a pathological liar and he died and went to h***. It was also a pedophile.
I was a member of the LDS church for 16 years many years ago. Though it was difficult leaving because of family at the time, I came to the conclusion that the JS story was a fraud, and he was a false prophet. I am glad to see the truth about this church and it's leadership coming to light finally!
Truly sorry to hear that homie Most Mormons I've met have at least superficially seem like wonderful people Unfortunately it's a masonic religion, obsessed with other planets , and has a huge problem with child abuse,much of it satanic imo Being masonic means it's luciferian and Kabbalahist,also masons are absolutely obsessed with aliens aka inter dimensional beings
yep, that Joseph Smith sure liked to con people, & conjure! him & L.Rong Hubtard, & a few others, opportunists, just couldn't pass on a gullible American public hungry for a better way of life. but the Mormons ive met & talked to have all seemed above average people, straight forward & hard working, plus they don't drink, smoke or do drugs, not even caffeine!
@@evancleary5075 really? This is the same old crap that you people have been using for over 200 years. Good grief cite my sources ? Well one BIG Source Is God
I'm going to further speak to the "Smith" family and occult practices. I can prove that, albeit a different Smith, that there's great significance to Gladys Smith Presley, also being of an occult background. Maybe the surname Smith being the most common name; that there's more meaning to why that last name is very popular.
The Dagger is prepared in the way described in the Grimoum Verum. It would have been used for animal sacrifice. Look up the black sheep Joseph took from the Stafford Farm without paying. The court ordered him to make sap buckets as compensation.
My great great grandfather was in the same Smith family and the tales about Joseph were legend. Mainly , he was nuts. Kept locked up near the attic often in his youth.
Excellent research and non-bias conclusion. Thanks again Dan for your research and the time devoted to seeing the Smith family through the lens of early nineteenth century folklore.
Russell put his face in a hat on camera...I'm excited to see what Oaks might do. If he "sees" the sealed portion of the gold plates, I'll go back to church that Sunday :)
1:14:26 while more prominent in modern occult practices like Wicca, the athame (ceremonial dagger/sword) is used as a symbol for the elements fire or air, and also a phallic symbol, and is also used for circle drawing as they are doing here. Just a fun fact.
I didn't mention that in ceremonial magic, the handle of the dagger is black or white depending on the kind of spirit being invoked. The Smith dagger is brown.
I was pointing out to a young LDS missionary today that JS used a Seer Stone placed in a hat to translate the BoM. I might as well have been speaking the Adamic language to the youngster.
@@jamestrek2570 in 2016 I told my bishop about the Gospel Topics Essays on the church website and he said I was a liar. That stuff has always been anti mormon lies. He didn't know about the November exclusion policy either. I had to explain it to him. This same bishop refused to let me baptize and confirm my son because eventhough I was a full tithe payer he insisted I wasn't and that I needed to pay more in order to be worthy. Smh, I dusted off my shoes and never went back.
In non Mormon Magick it is called a Show Stone. It's used like a black mirror. I grew up Mormon and now practice Theistic Satanism. A source for more on this topic is Paul Huson's ' " Mastering Witchcraft". He also has chapters on necromancy and curses or casting.
Dan, I enjoy all your work and this one is a stunner! Good job! I am continually amazed with the new discoveries made in the course of Mormon historical research and the fresh views you and others have contributed.
Dan! I could throw myself at your feet for many reasons, but I'll start at the least important: you make life more interesting for those of us interested in religious history and how Joseph Smith developed his ideas in the presence of magic! He reminds me of Huckleberry Finn! The astrology is also fascinating, and your deep work on this is appreciated. Rich pickings, and worth several listens and shares! 🙏
@danvogel6802 In your "Charisma Under Pressure Joseph Smith, American Prophet, 1831-1839", how large part of the pages are notes and references... and when can we expect the followup, 1840-1844? 😃 I am looking forward to the read(s)!
Nicely done, Dan. You have discovered some of the same sources that I have. *The Astrologer of the Nineteenth Century* is particularly useful, as I found when I obtained a copy for my own collection of magical books several months ago. I will be discussing some additional correspondences, etc. in September.
Thanks for watching Nick. I saw your 2020 presentation a few days ago thanks to Mark Elwood. I imagine you have moved beyond some of your interpretations expressed there. I hope in some small way my presentation inspires you to push it even further. Good luck.
@@danvogel6802 I have absolutely evolved since then on a number of issues. Partly a matter of newly-uncovered evidence, partly the kind of epiphanies that were there in evidence all along!
So what have you uncovered with these so called Christian cults?! Heard it was the same for Jehovah witness. Certain religions in the USA also were either Masonic cults broken off or built by groups of people interested in some occultist philosophy
I notice the connection with astrology, the searching for treasure, and needing a way shower. This makes me think of Aquarius and the Southern Fish, found at the foot of the Great One, the ancient name of Aquarius, where many of the star names of Aquarius are associated with luck and finding things, such as; Albali (Al Bali) was the brightest star of the 21st manzil (Arabic Moon Mansion), Al Sad al Bula‘, the Good Fortune of the Swallower, which included mu (μ) and nu (ν). Sadalsuud is from Al Sad al Suud, liberally translated the Luckiest of the Lucky. Sadalmelik is from the Arabic Al Sa’d al Malik, the Lucky One of the King, sometimes given as Al Sa’d al Mulk, the Lucky One of the Kingdom. Sadachbia, from Al Sad alAhbiyah (now called Sadalachbia) which has been interpreted the Lucky Star of Hidden Things or Hiding-places. Skat the Shin-Bone, from Arabic called Scheat, and Scheat Edeleu, the word variously derived: either from Al Shi’at, a Wish or from AlSak, the Shin-bone. Pisces Australis is the Southern Fish, and not to be confused with the two fishes of Pisces. The Southern Fish is depicted with its mouth open, drinking the water that is being poured from the jar of Aquarius. Allen [Star Names] says that this constellation was believed to be the “Oxyrinque adored in Egypt.” Oxyrhynchus is the town named after a species of fish of the Nile River which was important in Egyptian mythology as “the fish that swallowed the penis of Osiris.” Fomalhaut is the star at the mouth of the Southern Fish, is associated with one of the 4 brothers of Horus the Elder, the Wolf-Headed God Wepwawet, whose title is 'Opener of the Way', along with Fomalhaut b, the two create a Dragon Eye, Fomalhaut b is known as Dagon, where they say Draco and Dragon got their names. In the center of the ancient star maps, the Head of Draco, was where you find a Standing Wolf, it circles around the pole star Polaris, known to the Greeks as Kynosoura, which means “the Dog's Tail”, and the Dog uses it's tail to point the way. Now for something else, play "Say You're Well Taught", in reverse, listen to it's echo, it says "Aquarius", and the words "Thou Am Wolf" will echo "Fomalhaut" played in reverse. Osiris is associated with Orion, at the foot of Orion is Lupus the Rabbit, who somehow ended up on the Moon, in ancient times, Lupus was the Roster, and the Sword of Orion is what the Southern Fish Swallowed, Albali, the Good Fortune of the Swallower, play "They All Rule" in reverse, it echoes "Orion".
This video is amazing Dan. It is greatly appreciated. I'm sure the research is a huge time commitment. Here is a new apologist excuse I heard the other day to explain why Joseph used the brown stone and hat for both treasure digging and translating the BOM...he was learning how to use it and it took him a while to learn to use it to find "righteous treasure". Laughable. Thanks again. Subscribed.
Buying your books is a start. To show appreciation for the incredible work you do. Your an artiste, when you mentioned some of the ways you worked to be able to continue your scholarly work, it struck me. You didn’t offer or just reveal the info, someone had to ask several times. Some content providers w very superficial level research and facts gleaned from others work, bang the fundraiser drum all day every day. Incredible sums of $. Though I have very strong opinions and even facts to back up why I don’t care for the aggressive monetizing approach, I’ll avoid rant territory. The stark contrast between Mr Vogel and some others leaps off the page, and I could not have any more respect for what you do, and how you do it. Many seek to turn it into the same profit machine as the Church we left, Mr Vogel provides the highest pro grade research and writing and seems to only seek a modest, comfortable living. Not a multi million house in Holladay and two 100k SUV’s, where he doesn’t cross the street without declaring “fundraiser!” first. I do not begrudge fundraising at all, i begrudge the disparity in distribution of funds. Mr Vogel, Thank You. Someday I hope to shake your hand.
I can always remember hearing stories about him here in Susquehanna County when I was little. These were passed down from father to son or grandson. Being run out of town, using glass to see things.
Figured I should leave a comment. I watched this video twice and found your analysis interesting. I was raised mormon, or explicitly heretical Christian, as I like to describe it. I've long since renounced the church but It cannot be denied that the LDS really are a fascinating religion.
Query regarding the current location of the parchments: You said they are in the Church History Library. I'm hearing elsewhere that they don't have them but that they are in the hands of a private collector. Which is correct? Also, has anyone seen or photographed them since Quinn's book?
A lot of the searching I have done says the Dagger is in private collection. Unfortunately, I think we won't see it unless we know who/ what family has it. The sigils are in Lee Library at BYU. They are in public domain so have at it. The Jupiter square is very useful and easy to make with stuff from a nearby arts and craft shop. Just watch your planetary hour.
Dan, when you were researching for this, did you look into the Grimoire Verum at all? What stands out to me with that text is its focus on invoking Mars and the magician having in their possession a Mars sigil and knife inscribed to Mars. I also found the Phrase Agla in that book as well. The Smiths are definitely working within the Solomonic Magic tradition. This research that you've done is so fascinating.
Could the "fancy sun sign" you mention early in the video be the Evil Eye? I'm loving all of this, but it kind of hurts too still, even though I haven't been to church in years. My mind keeps reaching out for explanations, or hoping that all these papers are just trying to set the Smith family up. Thank you for all this work and all your citations.
I grew up in a small town in southern Alberta in western Canada where the Mormons had considerable power. After my county was reported as having one of Canada's highest teenage pregnancies rates my mother, a high school teacher, started the school's first sex education workshop. At the same time the Mormons had gained the majority vote on the town's board of education and were not happy about that workshop so they fired my mother from her job 2 years short of her teaching pension , after teaching in that town for 23 years. If i had the cash i would buy 500 copies of Dan's book and flood that town with them.
What are the titles of those multi-volume book-sets on your shelf? There's the red-white set and the black-tan (orange-ish?) set below that. Would be interested in knowing what those are called.
Oh, funny. The set by my head is my 6-volume Wilford Woodruff Journals by Benchmark Books. The black and tan set is the Interpreters Bible Dictionary that I have had since my 20s. The red and grey is the Interpreter's Bible Commentary, which also dates to my 20s.
How did you come across this quote on this page of this book? can you provide the actual link or searchable source or even a pic of the whole page? How do we know the creditability of your opinion? This kind of deep research is surely worth your keeping and specific sharing.
@@danvogel6802 Sources are not properly given but more than that, "you might have to work a little" is not very encouraging nor loving.That is sad because it reveals anger through scarsm, which is from a wounded heart. Whoever you call your God, may he heal you.
@@nanizon Sources are properly given, just not every time. Sort of like footnotes don't give the full reference every time. If you apply yourself, you can find everything I site. No anger on my part. See me like your professor getting annoid by your silliness.
I understand why Quinn used a 9 for J (thanks Indiana Jones), but would that second “I” in Agrippa’s system be equivalent to J? In which case JS could be 690. Still a stretch and having to account for -3, but what are your thoughts?
The story of how one man's daughter died enroute to a new home by falling off a wagon always angered me. Child sacrifice and ghost baptisms on sacrificial altars. They can't hide these things but they don't talk about them either
Jo JoS' myth stole our female Craft keys to the kingdom The Women waistline Art of Heart Earth Harth MEN are exiled for doing magic The Wyrd Valkyrie of Valhalla watch Tower. Bishops To Scope watchers spies for Rome. Angles Angles
It happens with other religions as well. They talk with whatever group or pantheon of deities they want to work with. Some demand offerings and some actual lives first to go are your own closest and nearest relatives as the offering. They then die suddenly or mysteriously from unknown, known, or explained consequences
Hello, Dan--Could you tell me the source of the ""Now Walters the Magician was a man..." text. I'm working on a project about these 'Chronicles' as they're sometimes called--retellings of events in the style of the King James Bible. Your help is greatly appreciated in sourcing this one. All best, Jesse Glass
Is it possible this treasure digging is actually representing using higher knowledge for personal monetary gain ? 🤔 Or possibly searching for someone born of a certain sign that holds knowledge (treasure).kinda like the 3 wise men (chaldean magic astrologers)
I am excited to watch this video. I am have been listening to standard of truth with gerrit dirkmat and this recent podcast it talks about the happiness letter. He claims that Joseph never wrote that letter and John c Bennett pushed that narrative. @danvogel is that true Joseph wasn’t the author of the happiness letter?
@@danvogel6802 thank you for replying. As an active member(pretty close to pimo) I never heard that Joseph’s was not the author of happiness letter. Dirkmat makes the claim that Sidney rigdon denied the authenticity of the letter, William smith denied it, and many others. Brigham young let it slip into a newspaper article and it has been used frequently since then. You should listen to those episodes from dirkmat.
@@jdawg3677 It was at first denied because it dealt with polygamy. The denial was worded ambiguously. Later, in Utah the letter was inserted into the History of the Church.
Smith’s search for buried treasure was ultimately successful with his discovery of the metaphorical gold plates. This record contained Smith’s interpretation of the fulness of the gospel as sprinkled in an epic fictional religious allegorical quasi-history context.
31:48 I probably missed you discuss this, and I will relisten to make sure I'm not restating something you already said, but the symbols and lines enclosed in the circles on the Lamen and in Scot and Sibly, look to be from, or based on, the Keys of Solomon. Which I could see apologists saying is part of ancient Hebrew rituals, thus there is no magic, so nothing to see here folks, just ordinary people practicing the supposed teachings of King Solomon. Again, sorry if I am repeating you, I just wanted to point this out before I forget.
I didn't mention the apologists. I don't distinguish between magic and religion anyway. But it would be like arguing the temple endowment came from Solomon's temple, not Masonry.
@@danvogel6802 very good point Dan. I was so engrossed in this video that I wasn't even thinking of the Solomon/Mason debate that has already been in play forever. Another great video, and the new book has been fascinating so far!
If anyone here wants to perform these rituals themselves, get your hands on the keys of solomon, and other books like the 6th and 7th book of Moses, ect. I find it incredibly fascinating that Joseph Smith was a ceremonial magician, and into solomonic magick.
I love the Goetic Hierarchy. That would be book 6. I suggest starting with a demon like Vassago or Stolas. I was raised LDS and now practice Theistic Satanism. I work with this book frequently.
You both need to repent. In Jesus name, I pray the Holy Spirit give you some righteous convictions that’ll stir you to the truth and that you’ll choose wisely who you serve. Satan is a lying loser, JS is burning in hell right now…. Im telling ya bluntly, turn to Jesus before you completely sear your conscience and lose the ability to repent. God is merciful but he will give you over to a debased mind if you continue to despise his truth.
Great video, Dan. Durham’s lecture mentions that Joseph’s Jupiter talisman was either tin or silver. At this point, do we definitively know the material?
@@danvogel6802 thanks. Durham also mentions that Joseph possessed the talisman “which he worked during his lifetime”. I wondered, is he using ‘worked’ to mean this may have been hand crafted by the owner or just that it was used during his lifetime?
Hi All - Just popping in for the sake of curiosity. Currently at 42:23. Fascinating stuff. However, a bit confusing. What is the point of this video? An expose of some kind? The truth behind Mormon origins? John Smith's real motivations? I am not sure of the intention. Don't want to skip ahead to spoil anything but I do wish the person who put this video together would have stated their intention in the intro. I mean, this magic symbol stuff sounds quite intriguing, but is is also supposed to give one pause? I'm not a Mormon or a mainstream Christian of any kind so I have no skin in the game. Perhaps this video presumes a level of pre-knowledge on the part of the viewer? Interesting nevertheless.
@@davidjanbaz7728 - I wish it were bliss. When it comes to J Smith and his movement I admit not knowing much. The topic sounds truly fascinating. Plus, Had to pause the video where I commented for work reasons. About to start it up again. I have absolutely no gripe with the subject, btw. I'm just curious if the narrator is supportive of these documents or relics. They seem intriguing. I do have experience with similar Kabbalistic shapes, meditations, etc. There does seem to be something to it. Something 'beyond the veil' as they say. Definitely not something to mess around with.
If you are somewhat new to Mormon history then this video would not be a good place to start. I would suggest many of Dan’s earlier videos to get caught up. Probably start from his oldest videos to newest.
@@TeleNikon Sometimes this stuff messes with you. I was 4 the first time I went to the temple with my family in the 1970's. That was one of the happiest days I ever had with them. At 52 years old, I am a Theistic Satanist. I work with this sort of material all the time. Learning to become a God is my focus 100%. I feel called to this work, that for most would seem dangerous and disgusting. I like it very much.
Once again Dan has found more digging into the past than JS found digging in the ground.
Did Joseph ever do any digging? I thought he would lose his "gift" if he touched a shovel! Haha
Dan does have a gift for spinning old tall-tales into new, but I agree with Jono, JS didn’t really dig up the plates etc. mainly just moved the rock. And the papyrus was dug up by someone else, so can’t fault JS there 🙂
Jesus warned against adding to the gospel.
Joseph Smith's "another gospel of Jesus Christ" is sheer heresy!!
It's utterly confounding that Smith was given any creedence at all.
Can only conclude that people were dumb & gullible back then.
That & his dark arts, biblicy forbidden, seduced people in.
@@Joe-ty2jp WHAT?! LMAOOO You think there were ANY plates OR papryus? Wowww..... DELUSIONAL/naive
@@davidjones8043 …except that multiple eyewitnesses saw both, and some of the papyrus still exists 🙂
If only I could tell family of this. They would lynch me if I said he was a Necromancer or Occultist. Not a chance they would listen to this. Thank you for your work Mr. Vogel!
Jesus son was an occultist
@@Scott-t2p no He was not! Give sources! Satan would like you to believe that. Do not confuse your supernatural sources. Satan is nothing but a deceiver and forger. He mimics God so as to bring doubt and confusion. From your comments, you’ve fallen for the deception
Tell them anyway. You love them? You have to warn them. Are you Christian?
good for your family
@@zachmoss8896 Joseph Smith was a 33rd degree Freemason. In the writings of the Freemasons in the morals and dogma of Freemasonry written by Albert Pike he plainly States that Freemasons worship Lucifer. Joseph Smith also had 34 wives many of them he married in secret Because they were already married. That's called adultery. All of his prophesies failed. He was a pathological liar and he died and went to h***. It was also a pedophile.
As a former mormon I always love seeing you've got another video. Saved from Mormonism by Jesus
@@korvaamiko66 Sure. I was speaking about myself. Not his intentions.
Wait till you do a deep dive into the Bible. If you thought Joseph Smith was up to his neck in magic and astrology ...
Praise Jesus. :)
From one cult to another
Very fascinating Dan! You put a boatload of work into this! Just wow!
Dan....you are second to no one in digging into this "LDS" material. I admire your detailed patience and persistence.
No doubt about it...Dan is ..The Man!
Hell yeah new Dan Vogel banger just dropped
For real. I get all excited like when Marshall Mathers drops a new song. Lol
Should have drawn a magic circle around Ensign Peak Advisors to ward off the SEC...
What an absolutely fascinating presentation!!!
I was a member of the LDS church for 16 years many years ago. Though it was difficult leaving because of family at the time, I came to the conclusion that the JS story was a fraud, and he was a false prophet. I am glad to see the truth about this church and it's leadership coming to light finally!
its a lie
Truly sorry to hear that homie
Most Mormons I've met have at least superficially seem like wonderful people
Unfortunately it's a masonic religion, obsessed with other planets , and has a huge problem with child abuse,much of it satanic imo
Being masonic means it's luciferian and Kabbalahist,also masons are absolutely obsessed with aliens aka inter dimensional beings
yep, that Joseph Smith sure liked to con people,
& conjure!
him & L.Rong Hubtard,
& a few others, opportunists, just couldn't pass on a gullible American public hungry for a better way of life.
but the Mormons ive met & talked to have all seemed above average people, straight forward & hard working, plus they don't drink, smoke or do drugs, not even caffeine!
@@zachmoss8896please elaborate. Cite your sources that support your claim that it's a lie
@@evancleary5075 really? This is the same old crap that you people have been using for over 200 years. Good grief cite my sources ? Well one BIG Source Is God
Yes! So excited to see you dig more into the magic practices of the Smith Family. Loved your occult video. So interesting.
Ugh
I'm going to further speak to the "Smith" family and occult practices. I can prove that, albeit a different Smith, that there's great significance to Gladys Smith Presley, also being of an occult background. Maybe the surname Smith being the most common name; that there's more meaning to why that last name is very popular.
Top notch resources and research done Dan. Thank you
Man I am so excited a new Dan Vogel video!!!!!
Detailed and interesting information. I don't recall hearing about the Mars ceremonial dagger before.
I must have missed that Ensign article too...
The Dagger is prepared in the way described in the Grimoum Verum. It would have been used for animal sacrifice. Look up the black sheep Joseph took from the Stafford Farm without paying. The court ordered him to make sap buckets as compensation.
Thank you for the video. It's great as usual
Thank you for all the work you do in the research and producing this video. I look forward to them
My great great grandfather was in the same Smith family and the tales about Joseph were legend. Mainly , he was nuts. Kept locked up near the attic often in his youth.
Was he crazy because of the spirits?!
Lol! Locked up in the attic? Nonsense. Don't you realize you are listening too and believing nothing more than tall tales and gossip. .
@@tamaraelsberry6630 Still they are closer to the truth than anything Smith told folks.
Are the Parchments and dagger that are in the History Library available for viewing by the public?
They do not appear in the catalog, but I verified that they are in the LDS Church's collection. So they are not available to the public.
@@danvogel6802 In other words, you could be full of shit.
@@JakobPGrau In other words, THE CHURCH IS NOT BEING FULLY TRANSPARENT...AGAIN.
Thanks for your hard work, Dan!
Wow, original,, free, fascinating, and trustworthy information. Astonishing. Thank you Dan.
always a treat when you upload, keep it up
Dan, thanks for posting this. I love all your stuff, it's great to see a new one.
Excellent research and non-bias conclusion. Thanks again Dan for your research and the time devoted to seeing the Smith family through the lens of early nineteenth century folklore.
So is it kosher to create our own magical objects within LDS theology? Where do I start looking for my own seer stone?
Russell put his face in a hat on camera...I'm excited to see what Oaks might do. If he "sees" the sealed portion of the gold plates, I'll go back to church that Sunday :)
Ya
Jeff:. You could start a new priesthood/prophet practice using pocket lint & pick-up stix
Start by looking in a mirror. Liars like to do that.
Annunaki movie. LDS not wrong, no church wrong if bringing closer to HF. Open mind, all possibilities, think eternally 😉🤯🥰
Comparing John Dee and Joseph Smith is interesting. Both were “scryers” who claimed angels revealed to them ancient/secret knowledge.
John Dee was not known as a deceiver and chronic liar. Edward Kelly, well, that's another story.
1:14:26 while more prominent in modern occult practices like Wicca, the athame (ceremonial dagger/sword) is used as a symbol for the elements fire or air, and also a phallic symbol, and is also used for circle drawing as they are doing here. Just a fun fact.
I didn't mention that in ceremonial magic, the handle of the dagger is black or white depending on the kind of spirit being invoked. The Smith dagger is brown.
@@danvogel6802 maybe they wanted a little of both sides and went with brown.
The Dagger was prepared as instructed to do so in the Grimoum Verum. Wicca did not exist in Smith's time. He used Barrett's The Magus 1801.
@@jerrimenard3092I need to read that book.
I was pointing out to a young LDS missionary today that JS used a Seer Stone placed in a hat to translate the BoM. I might as well have been speaking the Adamic language to the youngster.
It was originally called a "peep stone".
You have to tell them it’s found on the church website or they won’t believe you
@@jamestrek2570 in 2016 I told my bishop about the Gospel Topics Essays on the church website and he said I was a liar. That stuff has always been anti mormon lies. He didn't know about the November exclusion policy either. I had to explain it to him. This same bishop refused to let me baptize and confirm my son because eventhough I was a full tithe payer he insisted I wasn't and that I needed to pay more in order to be worthy. Smh, I dusted off my shoes and never went back.
In non Mormon Magick it is called a Show Stone. It's used like a black mirror. I grew up Mormon and now practice Theistic Satanism. A source for more on this topic is Paul Huson's ' " Mastering Witchcraft". He also has chapters on necromancy and curses or casting.
Look up the Urim and Thumim that were used by the ancient Israelite high priests to assist in receiving revelation from God and to judge.
Dan, I enjoy all your work and this one is a stunner! Good job! I am continually amazed with the new discoveries made in the course of Mormon historical research and the fresh views you and others have contributed.
Dan! I could throw myself at your feet for many reasons, but I'll start at the least important: you make life more interesting for those of us interested in religious history and how Joseph Smith developed his ideas in the presence of magic! He reminds me of Huckleberry Finn! The astrology is also fascinating, and your deep work on this is appreciated. Rich pickings, and worth several listens and shares! 🙏
@AppleScab (Venturia inaequalis
) who talked about this before?
@AppleScab (Venturia inaequalis
) no worries
@@weightelk Sandra Tanner
Huckleberry Finn. What is about the magik in it?! Guy who wrote it was a freemason
I always enjoy a Dan Vogel deep dive! This was awesome!
As always, well researched and easy to follow... Well done!
Excellent, as always!
@danvogel6802 In your "Charisma Under Pressure Joseph Smith, American Prophet, 1831-1839", how large part of the pages are notes and references... and when can we expect the followup, 1840-1844? 😃 I am looking forward to the read(s)!
Thanks. I don't know how long it will take to research and write the Nauvoo book.
Nicely done, Dan. You have discovered some of the same sources that I have. *The Astrologer of the Nineteenth Century* is particularly useful, as I found when I obtained a copy for my own collection of magical books several months ago. I will be discussing some additional correspondences, etc. in September.
Thanks for watching Nick. I saw your 2020 presentation a few days ago thanks to Mark Elwood. I imagine you have moved beyond some of your interpretations expressed there. I hope in some small way my presentation inspires you to push it even further. Good luck.
@@danvogel6802 I have absolutely evolved since then on a number of issues. Partly a matter of newly-uncovered evidence, partly the kind of epiphanies that were there in evidence all along!
So what have you uncovered with these so called Christian cults?! Heard it was the same for Jehovah witness. Certain religions in the USA also were either Masonic cults broken off or built by groups of people interested in some occultist philosophy
I notice the connection with astrology, the searching for treasure, and needing a way shower. This makes me think of Aquarius and the Southern Fish, found at the foot of the Great One, the ancient name of Aquarius, where many of the star names of Aquarius are associated with luck and finding things, such as;
Albali (Al Bali) was the brightest star of the 21st manzil (Arabic Moon Mansion), Al Sad al Bula‘, the Good Fortune of the Swallower, which included mu (μ) and nu (ν).
Sadalsuud is from Al Sad al Suud, liberally translated the Luckiest of the Lucky.
Sadalmelik is from the Arabic Al Sa’d al Malik, the Lucky One of the King, sometimes given as Al Sa’d al Mulk, the Lucky One of the Kingdom.
Sadachbia, from Al Sad alAhbiyah (now called Sadalachbia) which has been interpreted the Lucky Star of Hidden Things or Hiding-places.
Skat the Shin-Bone, from Arabic called Scheat, and Scheat Edeleu, the word variously derived: either from Al Shi’at, a Wish or from AlSak, the Shin-bone.
Pisces Australis is the Southern Fish, and not to be confused with the two fishes of Pisces. The Southern Fish is depicted with its mouth open, drinking the water that is being poured from the jar of Aquarius. Allen [Star Names] says that this constellation was believed to be the “Oxyrinque adored in Egypt.” Oxyrhynchus is the town named after a species of fish of the Nile River which was important in Egyptian mythology as “the fish that swallowed the penis of Osiris.” Fomalhaut is the star at the mouth of the Southern Fish, is associated with one of the 4 brothers of Horus the Elder, the Wolf-Headed God Wepwawet, whose title is 'Opener of the Way', along with Fomalhaut b, the two create a Dragon Eye, Fomalhaut b is known as Dagon, where they say Draco and Dragon got their names. In the center of the ancient star maps, the Head of Draco, was where you find a Standing Wolf, it circles around the pole star Polaris, known to the Greeks as Kynosoura, which means “the Dog's Tail”, and the Dog uses it's tail to point the way.
Now for something else, play "Say You're Well Taught", in reverse, listen to it's echo, it says "Aquarius", and the words "Thou Am Wolf" will echo "Fomalhaut" played in reverse. Osiris is associated with Orion, at the foot of Orion is Lupus the Rabbit, who somehow ended up on the Moon, in ancient times, Lupus was the Roster, and the Sword of Orion is what the Southern Fish Swallowed, Albali, the Good Fortune of the Swallower, play "They All Rule" in reverse, it echoes "Orion".
Interesting that they've ended up in the Church History Library. Thanks for the great video!
This video is amazing Dan. It is greatly appreciated. I'm sure the research is a huge time commitment. Here is a new apologist excuse I heard the other day to explain why Joseph used the brown stone and hat for both treasure digging and translating the BOM...he was learning how to use it and it took him a while to learn to use it to find "righteous treasure". Laughable. Thanks again. Subscribed.
"righteous treasure" - yes i can certainly see a Mormon Elder coming up with that explanation hahah
Thanks for all your research
Buying your books is a start. To show appreciation for the incredible work you do. Your an artiste, when you mentioned some of the ways you worked to be able to continue your scholarly work, it struck me. You didn’t offer or just reveal the info, someone had to ask several times.
Some content providers w very superficial level research and facts gleaned from others work, bang the fundraiser drum all day every day. Incredible sums of $. Though I have very strong opinions and even facts to back up why I don’t care for the aggressive monetizing approach, I’ll avoid rant territory. The stark contrast between Mr Vogel and some others leaps off the page, and I could not have any more respect for what you do, and how you do it. Many seek to turn it into the same profit machine as the Church we left, Mr Vogel provides the highest pro grade research and writing and seems to only seek a modest, comfortable living. Not a multi million house in Holladay and two 100k SUV’s, where he doesn’t cross the street without declaring “fundraiser!” first. I do not begrudge fundraising at all, i begrudge the disparity in distribution of funds. Mr Vogel, Thank You. Someday I hope to shake your hand.
Thanks for noticing.
You are a treasure Dan! I want to buy your book "Charisma under Pressure" and I'll buy it soon!
Where is the best place to buy your book? Amazon? Also, is there any anticipation of your new book being on audible, or available as an audiobook?
Great Job Dan!
Dan, Thanks for this insight.
BTW, your new book just arrived today. I can’t wait to start reading it.
This is much easier to digest than Quinn’s book. It’s still a amazing resource, but your videos and graphics are top notch.
This man does his research!
This is incredibly well thought out and done.
I can always remember hearing stories about him here in Susquehanna County when I was little. These were passed down from father to son or grandson. Being run out of town, using glass to see things.
?! More information?!
Amazing brilliant and great research you have done.👏
Your research is second to none, I want a t-shirt. Totally enjoying my read of “Charisma Under Pressure”.
Thanks.
Thank you Dan for your work on this. Now if members would pay attention a bit more
Figured I should leave a comment. I watched this video twice and found your analysis interesting. I was raised mormon, or explicitly heretical Christian, as I like to describe it. I've long since renounced the church but It cannot be denied that the LDS really are a fascinating religion.
A lot of Christian churches must have been Masonic or Shriner cults.
Query regarding the current location of the parchments:
You said they are in the Church History Library. I'm hearing elsewhere that they don't have them but that they are in the hands of a private collector. Which is correct? Also, has anyone seen or photographed them since Quinn's book?
I came to ask something similar! Wondering about the call number or any info about the location in CHL.
A lot of the searching I have done says the Dagger is in private collection. Unfortunately, I think we won't see it unless we know who/ what family has it.
The sigils are in Lee Library at BYU. They are in public domain so have at it. The Jupiter square is very useful and easy to make with stuff from a nearby arts and craft shop. Just watch your planetary hour.
Been waiting for new content. So excited for this! Thanks Mr Vogel!
Dan, when you were researching for this, did you look into the Grimoire Verum at all? What stands out to me with that text is its focus on invoking Mars and the magician having in their possession a Mars sigil and knife inscribed to Mars. I also found the Phrase Agla in that book as well. The Smiths are definitely working within the Solomonic Magic tradition. This research that you've done is so fascinating.
Awesome video. It contains some original content beyond Quinn's Magical World View.
Its always a unique pleasure when you publish a new video, Dan. Phenomenal work, as always.
Clearly that Jupiter Talisman protected Joseph Smith- right up until the time it didn't! Thanks for another great and fascinating video Dan V.
I don't know you senor Bob but u r full of it
@22:51 if read from right to left, and vertically, the symbols almost appear to spell "Mason" in an obscured way.
Could the "fancy sun sign" you mention early in the video be the Evil Eye?
I'm loving all of this, but it kind of hurts too still, even though I haven't been to church in years. My mind keeps reaching out for explanations, or hoping that all these papers are just trying to set the Smith family up. Thank you for all this work and all your citations.
Thank you, this is amazing
The bag around the neck reminds me of the Indian medicine bag worn in same manner.
Yes, medicine bags are considered amulets. These things appear in many cultures.
Well done, Dan!
I’m wondering if I can get the resource link to the Alvin requirement to get the plates. Please and thank you
Dan, you are The Man! Plus, cool shirt.
Also! Where did you get that shirt!? I drew the same sign before, it's from the church no?
Mark Elwood of The Glass Looker
@@danvogel6802 thank you, I'll check it out online 👍
So Smith was a warlock or male witch.
I want to be curious to understand and learn what you explain on this. Please turn on closed captioning. Thank you!
I just tried CC and it worked. Does it work for you?
It worked! Thank you
Dan is the best, everyone should purchase Charisma Under Pressure. I’m about 75% through it and it’s great.
I grew up in a small town in southern Alberta in western Canada where the Mormons had considerable power. After my county was reported as having one of Canada's highest teenage pregnancies rates my mother, a high school teacher, started the school's first sex education workshop. At the same time the Mormons had gained the majority vote on the town's board of education and were not happy about that workshop so they fired my mother from her job 2 years short of her teaching pension , after teaching in that town for 23 years. If i had the cash i would buy 500 copies of Dan's book and flood that town with them.
I wonder if there is any connection between these Laman bags or plates and the Lamanite people or tribes described in the Book of Mormon. Anyone?
Yep. Feels like a Grus Grus bag similar stuff
So happy to see your video!!
What are the titles of those multi-volume book-sets on your shelf? There's the red-white set and the black-tan (orange-ish?) set below that. Would be interested in knowing what those are called.
Oh, funny. The set by my head is my 6-volume Wilford Woodruff Journals by Benchmark Books. The black and tan set is the Interpreters Bible Dictionary that I have had since my 20s. The red and grey is the Interpreter's Bible Commentary, which also dates to my 20s.
Love the show, Dan!. Love the shirt, too! where can i get one?
From Mark Elwood of The Glass Looker.
How did you come across this quote on this page of this book? can you provide the actual link or searchable source or even a pic of the whole page? How do we know the creditability of your opinion? This kind of deep research is surely worth your keeping and specific sharing.
I give all sources. You might have to work a little.
@@danvogel6802 Sources are not properly given but more than that, "you might have to work a little" is not very encouraging nor loving.That is sad because it reveals anger through scarsm, which is from a wounded heart. Whoever you call your God, may he heal you.
@@nanizon Sources are properly given, just not every time. Sort of like footnotes don't give the full reference every time. If you apply yourself, you can find everything I site. No anger on my part. See me like your professor getting annoid by your silliness.
@@danvogel6802 If you say so, brother.
Happy Father's Day
Dude dan that was EXCELLENT. Glad your thoroughly covering the weird side now lol, great work
What i learned was, the treasure kept slipping away because the Smith's had mistakes in their lamans. 😁
I understand why Quinn used a 9 for J (thanks Indiana Jones), but would that second “I” in Agrippa’s system be equivalent to J? In which case JS could be 690. Still a stretch and having to account for -3, but what are your thoughts?
Not sure how you got 690. Quin got 459 using 9 for both J and I. If you substitute just one with 600, you get 1050.
This was amazing!
The more I find out about Joseph Smith, the more I realize that we're practically following the same path.
Brilliantly researched but so much detail I dont thing I took it all in. Is there any plan to turn this into an article or paper?
I may get around to it. I've been thinking of a fast way to do that. Like, start a site on academia.com where I can post the texts of my videos.
A lot of information to take in. It is amazing how an occult, superstitious group can tie all to the Bible in some way, isn't it?
The story of how one man's daughter died enroute to a new home by falling off a wagon always angered me. Child sacrifice and ghost baptisms on sacrificial altars. They can't hide these things but they don't talk about them either
Jo JoS' myth stole our female
Craft keys to the kingdom The
Women waistline
Art of Heart Earth Harth
MEN are exiled for doing magic
The Wyrd Valkyrie of Valhalla watch Tower. Bishops To Scope watchers spies for Rome.
Angles Angles
So in the end, after all this paper work did they find any gold in ground or not ?
Nice! Happy to see a new video! Couldn't click on it faster!
great video dan. do we know where the jupiter talisman is now? is it still in a museum?
When I was there a few years ago, they claimed to have it but wouldn't let us see it.
@@danvogel6802 😲 i wonder why
Wat krijg je als je vogel met prisma letter belicht en wat is dan het verschil met vochel .
Hey I just recognized a strange coincidence that you mentioned JS lost his first born??? Isn’t that also a common satanic sacrifice?
Yes.
It happens with other religions as well. They talk with whatever group or pantheon of deities they want to work with. Some demand offerings and some actual lives first to go are your own closest and nearest relatives as the offering. They then die suddenly or mysteriously from unknown, known, or explained consequences
Could there be a connection between the parchment "Laman" and "Lamanites"? The term might take on the notion of superstition.
4:00 he CLAIMED to see buried treasure and guardian spirits.
Hello, Dan--Could you tell me the source of the ""Now Walters the Magician was a man..." text. I'm working on a project about these 'Chronicles' as they're sometimes called--retellings of events in the style of the King James Bible. Your help is greatly appreciated in sourcing this one. All best, Jesse Glass
I love to know where you got your shirt from?
I got the shirt from Mark Elwood, author and illustrator of The Glass Looker. theglasslooker.com/product/holiness-to-the-lord-t-shirt/
Is it possible this treasure digging is actually representing using higher knowledge for personal monetary gain ? 🤔
Or possibly searching for someone born of a certain sign that holds knowledge (treasure).kinda like the 3 wise men (chaldean magic astrologers)
I am excited to watch this video. I am have been listening to standard of truth with gerrit dirkmat and this recent podcast it talks about the happiness letter. He claims that Joseph never wrote that letter and John c Bennett pushed that narrative. @danvogel is that true Joseph wasn’t the author of the happiness letter?
Dirkmatt is wrong.
@@danvogel6802 thank you for replying. As an active member(pretty close to pimo) I never heard that Joseph’s was not the author of happiness letter. Dirkmat makes the claim that Sidney rigdon denied the authenticity of the letter, William smith denied it, and many others. Brigham young let it slip into a newspaper article and it has been used frequently since then. You should listen to those episodes from dirkmat.
@@jdawg3677 It was at first denied because it dealt with polygamy. The denial was worded ambiguously. Later, in Utah the letter was inserted into the History of the Church.
Smith’s search for buried treasure was ultimately successful with his discovery of the metaphorical gold plates. This record contained Smith’s interpretation of the fulness of the gospel as sprinkled in an epic fictional religious allegorical quasi-history context.
31:48 I probably missed you discuss this, and I will relisten to make sure I'm not restating something you already said, but the symbols and lines enclosed in the circles on the Lamen and in Scot and Sibly, look to be from, or based on, the Keys of Solomon. Which I could see apologists saying is part of ancient Hebrew rituals, thus there is no magic, so nothing to see here folks, just ordinary people practicing the supposed teachings of King Solomon.
Again, sorry if I am repeating you, I just wanted to point this out before I forget.
I didn't mention the apologists. I don't distinguish between magic and religion anyway. But it would be like arguing the temple endowment came from Solomon's temple, not Masonry.
magic spells and incantations=prayers
@@danvogel6802 very good point Dan. I was so engrossed in this video that I wasn't even thinking of the Solomon/Mason debate that has already been in play forever. Another great video, and the new book has been fascinating so far!
@@beastshawnee and hymns are just like ritual chanting. It's all just the same old product with different packaging.
@@tyleranderson4921 There was/is a clever game with Solomon and Masonry.
Aloha Dan, just read your new book. So well written. Need to get a Twitter account to post and let the world know it’s available.
Thanks, TO. I have one. I just don't get around to it, but I should.
1:50 seer stone used to TRY to locate buried treasure.
If anyone here wants to perform these rituals themselves, get your hands on the keys of solomon, and other books like the 6th and 7th book of Moses, ect.
I find it incredibly fascinating that Joseph Smith was a ceremonial magician, and into solomonic magick.
I love the Goetic Hierarchy. That would be book 6. I suggest starting with a demon like Vassago or Stolas. I was raised LDS and now practice Theistic Satanism. I work with this book frequently.
@@jerrimenard3092 Interesting. May I ask how successful you were with those demons?
You both need to repent.
In Jesus name, I pray the Holy Spirit give you some righteous convictions that’ll stir you to the truth and that you’ll choose wisely who you serve. Satan is a lying loser, JS is burning in hell right now….
Im telling ya bluntly, turn to Jesus before you completely sear your conscience and lose the ability to repent. God is merciful but he will give you over to a debased mind if you continue to despise his truth.
I love the shirt, very apt 😄 .
The shirt supplied by Mark Elwood of The Glass Looker
27:42 Couldn’t the sideways Ms also be braces? Like, mathematics braces?
Great video, Dan. Durham’s lecture mentions that Joseph’s Jupiter talisman was either tin or silver. At this point, do we definitively know the material?
All the sources I have say it's made of silver. The Magus instructs that it be made of silver.
@@danvogel6802 thanks. Durham also mentions that Joseph possessed the talisman “which he worked during his lifetime”. I wondered, is he using ‘worked’ to mean this may have been hand crafted by the owner or just that it was used during his lifetime?
@@Noyler83 Some have claimed JS made the talisman, but I don't know the authority of that claim.
Hi All - Just popping in for the sake of curiosity. Currently at 42:23. Fascinating stuff. However, a bit confusing. What is the point of this video? An expose of some kind? The truth behind Mormon origins? John Smith's real motivations? I am not sure of the intention. Don't want to skip ahead to spoil anything but I do wish the person who put this video together would have stated their intention in the intro. I mean, this magic symbol stuff sounds quite intriguing, but is is also supposed to give one pause? I'm not a Mormon or a mainstream Christian of any kind so I have no skin in the game. Perhaps this video presumes a level of pre-knowledge on the part of the viewer? Interesting nevertheless.
Your ignorance is bliss : but get some education on this topic first!
@@davidjanbaz7728 - I wish it were bliss. When it comes to J Smith and his movement I admit not knowing much. The topic sounds truly fascinating. Plus, Had to pause the video where I commented for work reasons. About to start it up again. I have absolutely no gripe with the subject, btw. I'm just curious if the narrator is supportive of these documents or relics. They seem intriguing. I do have experience with similar Kabbalistic shapes, meditations, etc. There does seem to be something to it. Something 'beyond the veil' as they say. Definitely not something to mess around with.
If you are somewhat new to Mormon history then this video would not be a good place to start. I would suggest many of Dan’s earlier videos to get caught up. Probably start from his oldest videos to newest.
@@TeleNikon Sometimes this stuff messes with you. I was 4 the first time I went to the temple with my family in the 1970's. That was one of the happiest days I ever had with them.
At 52 years old, I am a Theistic Satanist. I work with this sort of material all the time. Learning to become a God is my focus 100%. I feel called to this work, that for most would seem dangerous and disgusting. I like it very much.
@@jerrimenard3092 - Incredibly interesting tale behind your story I'm sure.👍
i don't have a clue what you're talking about but wouldn't people doing this be called witches and burned at the stack or was this later than that?
I came her because Damien Echols mentioned how the Book of Mormon is magick coded and Joseph smith was a magician so glad to learn more!
So what makes it necromancy explain