On the upward bowed joist, you could get more grip if you pre-drilled and used two 6" lag screws with 1" fender washers. If the board wants to bow so much that you have to pry it down, it may eventually rise again and the smaller screws strip out with continued agitation from traffic on the floor above.
Putting screws in at an angle reminds me of the Kreg Jig System which really gives strength. Other good info to know in your video. I like to see the problems you encounter and what you do to resolve things. Thanks.
Hey Suzie Q. Yeah the angle seems like it would hold much better. Probably overkill but then we have a tendency to overthink most things. Better safe than sorry we always say. Most people would have just put the floor down and been done with it. We have a hard time not fixing whatever we can when possible along the way. Leaving it for the next guy is just not our style. Thanks for the compliments and for following along. Terry
Dear Terry & Brian, Watching you two working underneath almost reminded me of the movie " The Great Escape". You've certainly found a very good remedy to that floor dip above. very well done. Kind regards.
Thanks! That and some shims we did over the few low spots on joists made for a very solid and level floor. Its amazing how little efforts it really takes to get things more close to perfect. Terry
Hey Terry - I am glad your solution worked to remove bounce. I am looking to do something similar to remove the bounce in my floors as well. I am having a hard time understanding the purpose of the T design. Will one 2x6 not suffice? What is the purpose of the other perpendicular 2x6? Thanks!
When you screw one to the other its a similar concept to plywood. The two boards are much stronger together than alone. By having them perpendicular its also much easier to screw to the floor joists. If you just set the two boards together without any screws and then tried to flex or bend them they would bend and slide against each other. With the screws they can not slide so it becomes much harder to bend them. Hope this helps. Thanks for watching! Terry
Thanks for this video! Very interesting idea. I'm hoping you might have some thoughts on my situation! Background * My home has an addition (previous owners built in 2000) w/kitchen and dining room over a cement crawl space. About 3' headspace, so not bad! When walking in the kitchen, any glass on the center island rattles. In the dining room, the china cabinet rattles. My floors don't feel weak, or sag, but I don't like the rattle and would like to get rid of it. Joists in crawl space * 2x12s * 16 inch spacing on center * 16 foot joist runs What I've tried * There was no cross bracing before. So I added, 2 rows, each 5' in from the edges. I used 2x3s. Only one bay has an exhaust vent in the way -- in that bay, I added one cross brace where I could, and a horizontal 2x4 under the exhaust pipe instead of the other cross brace. Anyway, long story short, I tried adding the cross braces (just under the kitchen area so far), and don't notice any difference. Am I doing it wrong? :-). Question * I think your method looks great, but due to existing piping (gas pipe running the lenght of one bay), I've only got 3 1/2" clearance to add a T. Your method would require 7" of vertical space. Is there a T method that would work with this constraint? Or would basic "strapping" work you think? Like this: th-cam.com/video/ImE8149YFLA/w-d-xo.html Thanks, and sorry for the overly long question… Chuck
Its hard for me to say without seeing your situation. I am going to have a cement floor in my crawl space creating a dry conditioned space. I hate a stinky moldy dam crawl space. That said once the house is built I will come back and add a short wall down the center of the kitchen area where we will also have a large island. Hope that helps. Step the wall down enough on yours to accommodate the pipe. Terru
After 8 years of ownership of my residential home, I finally got down into my crawlspace to pull some cabling. To my shock I discovered flooring joists 32" on center. From the beginning the floors seemed bouncy. I just don't know what to do now.
Wow. Not the best situation there. Maybe do something like we did here. Then add concrete pads and posts supporting the floor from the ground up? Seems like it could help. Terry
Crazy question, but I have a basement and my pool table is right over top of it. Anyways, when the winter comes, one side of the floor dips slightly with the change in temperature and I continually have to re level the table as the seasons change. Will this extra bracing help with that as well? I would assume so. I have seen some videos with cross bracing (like an X between the floor joists). I also saw where someone put 1x3 tying all the floor joists together. Is there any one method better for this? I am tired of having to level my table every 12-14 weeks lol Thanks in advance for the video and any advice you could offer.
First off I am no expert but what I do generally works for me. Its hard to assess a problem when you can not see it. One thing that comes to mind is the humidity is likely a factor as well. If you have a leaky basement that may be contributing to the problem. The cross braces would be a plus or you can saw 2X (lumber matching the dimension of the floor joist ) and nail the solid blocks in between the joists. That does stiffen the floor significantly. Another consideration if the basement is not being use under the pool table is to put in a brace like we did and put screw jacks in to support the floor under the table from the concrete below. This could cause issues if the floor is not strong enough so there is that to assess as well if you try this method. Knowing whats moving and why would be a big help. Maybe measure between the floor and the joists in several places and make marks keeping up with it. Then when things shift measure again and see what changed and where. This may give you some insight into where your main problem lies. Sometimes a problem can be so obvious yet goes unnoticed. You may have a joist that is warping significantly when humidly and temps change. If so its not uncommon to completely replace one if that is so. Adding cross braces or blocks or the bottom brace like we did can help reduce the warping issues. Good luck and let us know what you find out!! Terry
About the only thing I can think of would be to brace it temporarily like we did. Then go up top and check it for as level as you can get it. Then go back under and put blocking in between the joists. Get it snugly fit as possible. You could do one run down the middle or possibly at the quarter, half and three quarter locations. Then you could remove the jacks and temporary brace. Those blocks should stiffen the floor to some degree. Putting in new sub floor like Advantec would likely be a big plus as well but thats a lot of work. Good luck! Terry
It looked like drywall screws were used to construct the "beam". Construction screws are the appropriate choice. Also, there is no strength in screwing into end-grain.
I do not disagree however its what we had and the floor is now solid as a rock. 😁 This was not a code required installation. Nor was it a repair. We simply wanted to stiffen the floor a bit. Mission accomplished. Terry
Its pretty dry under our house so moisture is not a big issue. I will have to see if I can find what screws we used but I do believe they were deck screws. Terry
It would but we did not really want to move the floor around to much. It was really not in bad shape we just wanted it to be the best and most level we could get it before putting down the advantac and then the final floor. That way it had the best chance of ending up straight level and flat. Worked out great. We were very pleased. It is solid as a rock and pretty level as well. I hear that a varying height of 1/4" is allowable on a floor and we have less than 1/8" low spots in two places. Can't expect much more than that. Terry
Hmm, seems like that might move the other joists around a bit more than we would want. The other joists were correct, the high one needed to come down to them but just slightly. If we lifted the others up to it, then screwed it to them that would work but I am just not sure if that would be good for the floor system. It might affect the connections where the joists being moved were connected to the outer band around the room. I am no expert, just thinking out loud here. :) Terry
@@ForestToFarm you might be right. I might need to get under my house to put some braces between the joists and might need to do something like that in the kitchen/dinning room.
It helps. We are very glad we took the time to do it. I have done it in the past in a room that was pretty bouncy and slightly sagging in the middle. I pulled strings across the room in the diagonals and then checked how much it was sagging. Then built a similar "T" support to the one in this video and installed it. Then poured three footers under the "T" with concrete and let them set up. Then I jacked the floor up under the beam, with a 20 ton bottle jack, and had Brian watch the strings until the floor looked level. Then I measured the distance from the concrete footer to the "T" beam and cut a 4x4 treated post and did this at each of three locations. Each end and the middle of the "T" support. Then we went back and fine tuned it some more until the floor was almost perfectly level by adding some cedar shims to the top of the treated posts. It worked out great and the floor is still level and solid as a rock. The reason we did it was we had a water tube bed in there and a large 6'x6' book case full of books plus all our other bedroom typical stuff. We just wanted it to be solid and it was. Terry
Thanks for the video instruction, very informative. The remodel I'm working on has kitchen floors built with 2x6 @ 16 OC spanned 8' . 5/8" T&G over the joists has rows of wire nails completely missing the joist in many spots. The owner wants to place a 600 lb KitchenAid refrigerator on this floor. Am I wrong to expect cracked tile? The floor not only squeaks when you walk on it but makes other noise I never heard before. Crawl space is minimal and the bargain plumber encroached on many prime spots to simplify their work.
You are welcome. I am no expert but I get the job done and it has worked for me so far over the years. Its sad to see how unprofessional some contractors did work on old houses. I can not say for sure about cracked tile but I would brace the floor before putting that heavy refrigerator in there. I have seen plumbers cut entire joists in two to install plumbing. Unbelievable what some people will do. Good luck!! Terry
Yes we did. Its what we had available and the floor was really in great shape to start with. Just a little warping after 45 or more years on a couple joists. We did the same thing 20 years ago in the master bedroom and it was a very bouncy floor. It is solid as a rock now and holding strong. This is not structural but rather just a little bracing to stiffen things up a bit. It gets the job done. :) Terry
my floor is 2x10 floor joists on 16" centers and has 1x4 cross bracing down the middle of the span but the span is like 15 and a half feet, do you think something like this would take some bounce out of the floor? I swear the whole house shakes when my mom comes to visit and walks around (she walks with a heavy foot), i've got a lot of wiring run in the joists so sistering up joists would be a sizeable undertaking.
I do think it could help. And you could always place a couple posts under it as well down to the ground which would really lock it down. Then if they start to get loose over time just go in and add shims over time as needed to keep it solid. You could use screw jacks under your beams and they will be adjustable if needed. Terry
@@ForestToFarm posts aren't an option as it would wreck the flow of the basement, I could integrate this T-brace in several areas fairly easily and in some of the other areas where there isn't wiring I could sister up the joists, I also did some more googling and saw a process of using 2 layers of 3/4" plywood screwed and glued with offset joints as a way to sister up joists in areas where it's to tight to get a full joist in to sister up.
Ha, I assumed a crawl a space. I would still do the t joist deal. You could possibly do it in two places. When a joist flexes it is actually twisting more than flexing sideways. This T we installed really made the floor solid. Terry
What would we use the jack for? If you are referring to the last joist where we used hammers to pry the joist down a jack is not the solution. We did not want to raise the entire floor but rather lower that one high joist. By the way the floor is still solid and we accomplished our goal. Its doing exactly what we set out to do. ;) Terry
Your fix is not gonna do nuttin! It will move over time. This is the reason....you have footings and posts and beams...all the load is transferred equally. Jack it up get it where you need it...put a beam with a post or adjustable column. This was a hack fix. How about joist size and span...spacing would be nice too. Reality...Failure for TILE!
Lol. It was the best thing we could do. This has been done for ever and it has because it works. The floor was bouncy and when you walked across it it squeaked and the cabinets above would also make noises because the floor moved so much. Now after our fix there is zero noise or squeaking going on. I have been in construction since I was a small child helping my grandpa do just about anything and everything to do with a house. Trust me, it works and it works well. :) Terry
Bless you for filming in a crawl space
Thanks!!
Terry
On the upward bowed joist, you could get more grip if you pre-drilled and used two 6" lag screws with 1" fender washers. If the board wants to bow so much that you have to pry it down, it may eventually rise again and the smaller screws strip out with continued agitation from traffic on the floor above.
Thanks for the tip! Holding good so far.
Terry
wont it straighten out on it own over time?
Great video Terry! Lovin the pile up at 6:50 haha Awesome work guys! Im sure you were glad to get out from under that house!
Thanks! Ha ha, gotta get the job done. Tag teaming is sometimes the solution.
Terry
Putting screws in at an angle reminds me of the Kreg Jig System which really gives strength. Other good info to know in your video. I like to see the problems you encounter and what you do to resolve things. Thanks.
Hey Suzie Q. Yeah the angle seems like it would hold much better. Probably overkill but then we have a tendency to overthink most things. Better safe than sorry we always say. Most people would have just put the floor down and been done with it. We have a hard time not fixing whatever we can when possible along the way. Leaving it for the next guy is just not our style. Thanks for the compliments and for following along.
Terry
Dear Terry & Brian,
Watching you two working underneath almost reminded me of the movie " The Great Escape". You've certainly found a very good remedy to that floor dip above. very well done. Kind regards.
Thanks! That and some shims we did over the few low spots on joists made for a very solid and level floor. Its amazing how little efforts it really takes to get things more close to perfect.
Terry
@@ForestToFarm Worth all the effort. You only get what you put in. Kind regards.
Agreed!
Terry
Hey Terry - I am glad your solution worked to remove bounce. I am looking to do something similar to remove the bounce in my floors as well. I am having a hard time understanding the purpose of the T design. Will one 2x6 not suffice? What is the purpose of the other perpendicular 2x6? Thanks!
When you screw one to the other its a similar concept to plywood. The two boards are much stronger together than alone. By having them perpendicular its also much easier to screw to the floor joists. If you just set the two boards together without any screws and then tried to flex or bend them they would bend and slide against each other. With the screws they can not slide so it becomes much harder to bend them. Hope this helps. Thanks for watching!
Terry
Looking good! Congrats on 5k subscribers!
Finally made it! Thanks and thanks for following along Cody!
Terry
Very cool video. I love this kind of repair.
Thanks! It got the job done and still doing great!
Terry
Nice work!
Thanks!
Thanks for this video! Very interesting idea. I'm hoping you might have some thoughts on my situation!
Background
* My home has an addition (previous owners built in 2000) w/kitchen and dining room over a cement crawl space. About 3' headspace, so not bad! When walking in the kitchen, any glass on the center island rattles. In the dining room, the china cabinet rattles. My floors don't feel weak, or sag, but I don't like the rattle and would like to get rid of it.
Joists in crawl space
* 2x12s
* 16 inch spacing on center
* 16 foot joist runs
What I've tried
* There was no cross bracing before. So I added, 2 rows, each 5' in from the edges. I used 2x3s. Only one bay has an exhaust vent in the way -- in that bay, I added one cross brace where I could, and a horizontal 2x4 under the exhaust pipe instead of the other cross brace.
Anyway, long story short, I tried adding the cross braces (just under the kitchen area so far), and don't notice any difference. Am I doing it wrong? :-).
Question
* I think your method looks great, but due to existing piping (gas pipe running the lenght of one bay), I've only got 3 1/2" clearance to add a T. Your method would require 7" of vertical space. Is there a T method that would work with this constraint? Or would basic "strapping" work you think? Like this: th-cam.com/video/ImE8149YFLA/w-d-xo.html
Thanks, and sorry for the overly long question…
Chuck
Its hard for me to say without seeing your situation. I am going to have a cement floor in my crawl space creating a dry conditioned space. I hate a stinky moldy dam crawl space. That said once the house is built I will come back and add a short wall down the center of the kitchen area where we will also have a large island. Hope that helps. Step the wall down enough on yours to accommodate the pipe.
Terru
After 8 years of ownership of my residential home, I finally got down into my crawlspace to pull some cabling. To my shock I discovered flooring joists 32" on center. From the beginning the floors seemed bouncy. I just don't know what to do now.
Wow. Not the best situation there. Maybe do something like we did here. Then add concrete pads and posts supporting the floor from the ground up? Seems like it could help.
Terry
Crazy question, but I have a basement and my pool table is right over top of it. Anyways, when the winter comes, one side of the floor dips slightly with the change in temperature and I continually have to re level the table as the seasons change. Will this extra bracing help with that as well? I would assume so. I have seen some videos with cross bracing (like an X between the floor joists). I also saw where someone put 1x3 tying all the floor joists together. Is there any one method better for this? I am tired of having to level my table every 12-14 weeks lol Thanks in advance for the video and any advice you could offer.
First off I am no expert but what I do generally works for me. Its hard to assess a problem when you can not see it.
One thing that comes to mind is the humidity is likely a factor as well. If you have a leaky basement that may be contributing to the problem.
The cross braces would be a plus or you can saw 2X (lumber matching the dimension of the floor joist ) and nail the solid blocks in between the joists. That does stiffen the floor significantly.
Another consideration if the basement is not being use under the pool table is to put in a brace like we did and put screw jacks in to support the floor under the table from the concrete below. This could cause issues if the floor is not strong enough so there is that to assess as well if you try this method.
Knowing whats moving and why would be a big help. Maybe measure between the floor and the joists in several places and make marks keeping up with it. Then when things shift measure again and see what changed and where. This may give you some insight into where your main problem lies. Sometimes a problem can be so obvious yet goes unnoticed.
You may have a joist that is warping significantly when humidly and temps change. If so its not uncommon to completely replace one if that is so. Adding cross braces or blocks or the bottom brace like we did can help reduce the warping issues.
Good luck and let us know what you find out!!
Terry
In my situation, it would cut down on an already low clearance crawlspace.
Do you have any idea on how to remedy that?
Thanks!
About the only thing I can think of would be to brace it temporarily like we did. Then go up top and check it for as level as you can get it. Then go back under and put blocking in between the joists. Get it snugly fit as possible. You could do one run down the middle or possibly at the quarter, half and three quarter locations. Then you could remove the jacks and temporary brace. Those blocks should stiffen the floor to some degree. Putting in new sub floor like Advantec would likely be a big plus as well but thats a lot of work. Good luck!
Terry
That is very smart.
Thanks! It gets the job done. 😀
Terry
Great work
Thanks!
Terry
It looked like drywall screws were used to construct the "beam". Construction screws are the appropriate choice. Also, there is no strength in screwing into end-grain.
I do not disagree however its what we had and the floor is now solid as a rock. 😁 This was not a code required installation. Nor was it a repair. We simply wanted to stiffen the floor a bit. Mission accomplished.
Terry
May I ask what type and size of screws did you use? Being in the crawl space is rust a potential issue?
Its pretty dry under our house so moisture is not a big issue. I will have to see if I can find what screws we used but I do believe they were deck screws.
Terry
I'm curious, would a bottle Jack have made the process easier?
It would but we did not really want to move the floor around to much. It was really not in bad shape we just wanted it to be the best and most level we could get it before putting down the advantac and then the final floor. That way it had the best chance of ending up straight level and flat. Worked out great. We were very pleased. It is solid as a rock and pretty level as well. I hear that a varying height of 1/4" is allowable on a floor and we have less than 1/8" low spots in two places. Can't expect much more than that.
Terry
@@ForestToFarm I figured that you could have jacked the new wood up to the high spot and then put your screws in, then remove the Jack.
Hmm, seems like that might move the other joists around a bit more than we would want. The other joists were correct, the high one needed to come down to them but just slightly. If we lifted the others up to it, then screwed it to them that would work but I am just not sure if that would be good for the floor system. It might affect the connections where the joists being moved were connected to the outer band around the room. I am no expert, just thinking out loud here. :)
Terry
@@ForestToFarm you might be right. I might need to get under my house to put some braces between the joists and might need to do something like that in the kitchen/dinning room.
It helps. We are very glad we took the time to do it.
I have done it in the past in a room that was pretty bouncy and slightly sagging in the middle. I pulled strings across the room in the diagonals and then checked how much it was sagging. Then built a similar "T" support to the one in this video and installed it. Then poured three footers under the "T" with concrete and let them set up. Then I jacked the floor up under the beam, with a 20 ton bottle jack, and had Brian watch the strings until the floor looked level. Then I measured the distance from the concrete footer to the "T" beam and cut a 4x4 treated post and did this at each of three locations. Each end and the middle of the "T" support. Then we went back and fine tuned it some more until the floor was almost perfectly level by adding some cedar shims to the top of the treated posts. It worked out great and the floor is still level and solid as a rock. The reason we did it was we had a water tube bed in there and a large 6'x6' book case full of books plus all our other bedroom typical stuff. We just wanted it to be solid and it was.
Terry
could you also put in blocking between the joists or would that be over kill?
Yes it would be good for those who grew up on Snow Rd. For all others it would be overkill.
Terry :)
His white hair is so cool..
Ha ha thanks!
Terry
Thanks for the video instruction, very informative. The remodel I'm working on has kitchen floors built with 2x6 @ 16 OC spanned 8' . 5/8" T&G over the joists has rows of wire nails completely missing the joist in many spots. The owner wants to place a 600 lb KitchenAid refrigerator on this floor. Am I wrong to expect cracked tile? The floor not only squeaks when you walk on it but makes other noise I never heard before. Crawl space is minimal and the bargain plumber encroached on many prime spots to simplify their work.
You are welcome.
I am no expert but I get the job done and it has worked for me so far over the years. Its sad to see how unprofessional some contractors did work on old houses.
I can not say for sure about cracked tile but I would brace the floor before putting that heavy refrigerator in there. I have seen plumbers cut entire joists in two to install plumbing. Unbelievable what some people will do. Good luck!!
Terry
Dude are you using drywall screws in that?
Yes we did. Its what we had available and the floor was really in great shape to start with. Just a little warping after 45 or more years on a couple joists. We did the same thing 20 years ago in the master bedroom and it was a very bouncy floor. It is solid as a rock now and holding strong. This is not structural but rather just a little bracing to stiffen things up a bit. It gets the job done. :)
Terry
@@ForestToFarm I get it player, not trying to bust your balls, been there, wasn't sure if this was a professional paid job
Drywall screws suck
my floor is 2x10 floor joists on 16" centers and has 1x4 cross bracing down the middle of the span but the span is like 15 and a half feet, do you think something like this would take some bounce out of the floor? I swear the whole house shakes when my mom comes to visit and walks around (she walks with a heavy foot), i've got a lot of wiring run in the joists so sistering up joists would be a sizeable undertaking.
I do think it could help. And you could always place a couple posts under it as well down to the ground which would really lock it down. Then if they start to get loose over time just go in and add shims over time as needed to keep it solid. You could use screw jacks under your beams and they will be adjustable if needed.
Terry
@@ForestToFarm posts aren't an option as it would wreck the flow of the basement, I could integrate this T-brace in several areas fairly easily and in some of the other areas where there isn't wiring I could sister up the joists, I also did some more googling and saw a process of using 2 layers of 3/4" plywood screwed and glued with offset joints as a way to sister up joists in areas where it's to tight to get a full joist in to sister up.
Ha, I assumed a crawl a space. I would still do the t joist deal. You could possibly do it in two places. When a joist flexes it is actually twisting more than flexing sideways. This T we installed really made the floor solid.
Terry
USE A JACK! HAMMER LMAO!
What would we use the jack for? If you are referring to the last joist where we used hammers to pry the joist down a jack is not the solution. We did not want to raise the entire floor but rather lower that one high joist. By the way the floor is still solid and we accomplished our goal. Its doing exactly what we set out to do. ;)
Terry
Your fix is not gonna do nuttin! It will move over time. This is the reason....you have footings and posts and beams...all the load is transferred equally. Jack it up get it where you need it...put a beam with a post or adjustable column. This was a hack fix.
How about joist size and span...spacing would be nice too. Reality...Failure for TILE!
Lol. It was the best thing we could do. This has been done for ever and it has because it works. The floor was bouncy and when you walked across it it squeaked and the cabinets above would also make noises because the floor moved so much. Now after our fix there is zero noise or squeaking going on. I have been in construction since I was a small child helping my grandpa do just about anything and everything to do with a house. Trust me, it works and it works well. :)
Terry