In my humble opinion,Doc Holiday in Tombstone was Val Kilmer's finest role,and greatest performance and portrayal of the legendary gun slinging dentist Doc Holiday!!!
DOC: Whyyy Johnny Ringo, look like someone just walked over your grave! RINGO: Fights not with you Holliday.. DOC: I beg to differ sir, we started a game we never got to finish... Play for blood, remember?? RINGO: I was just foolin about!! DOC: I WASN'T.. Probably one of the most bad ass movie scenes ever!!!
Two of my favorite westerns are “Wyatt Earp”, and “Tombstone”. I love the way Val Kilmer plays Doc Holiday, but I have to believe that the Dennis Quaid portrayal is probably more accurate. I very much like the persona Kevin Costner brings to Wyatt Earp in his film. I love the “image” that Kurt Russell presents of Wyatt Earp in “Tombstone”.
I like both movies as well. Two things in the Costner version that still drive me nuts are the low ride movie holsters and claiming Bat Masterson’s first name is bartholomew. Both are baffling and totally unnecessary.
I'll concede that Costner's dour earp is the more realistic version, but from what I've read about John Henry, I'd give it to val's/jarre's version. Keep in mind that doc was much closer to Morgan's age and had just made attempts at business ventures in dodge in 78' and Las Vegas NM a year later. He was probably not quite the bitter wreck we see Quaid portray, although I'll admit Val was much too hearty looking for 30 yr old doc. Everything else from the piano playing to his "late" in life curiosity about catholicism seem to be true to the man.
Both are fine portrayals...BUT......Doc Never Dressed Like A Homeless & Scruffy Vagrant, like Quaid, but that I believe was due to the fact that Tombstone snatched up all the good Clothing to "Wardrobe" Actors in Tombstone. Doc was Always Known As A Snappy & Fashionable Dresser.
Val Kilmer was so amazing in Tombstone people want to believe it's true. Tombstone is one of my favorite movies but it's not a documentary so people need to be able to separate entertainment from history.
Yes. People wish to believe movie stars are their heroes. I named my son after Sean Connery and he's holding a pellet gun in your avitar and Connery didn't believe people could own guns. They are just entertainers and should never be treated as heroes.
I also loved the fact that the movie hinted at the true story when Doc said "I'm afraid the strain was more than he could bear." Great script writing... ;-)
When the famous walk to the OK Corral with the three Earps brother's , Doc . asked Wyatt were awash he going .Wyatt told Doc to stay out of it . Worse Wyatt told Doc " none of his BUSSINESS, allegedly Doc said to Wyatt that's a hell of a thing to say to me ! The rest is history 16 th October 1881 , I
I'll be your huckleberry was a real moment in the streets. He mentioned it in this talk but in the movie Doc and Wyatt did not get arrested. The Gun fight in the movie with doc is not the best part of the movie. To me it seemed ridiculously hollywood.
Huckleberry = Paul bearer. Huckles are/were the handles on casket. Hucklebearer + Georgia accent = Huckleberry. I always wanted to know what Doc was talking about when he said that. Passing the research forward.
Well, Bob, like you said, we all want Doc Holliday to shoot Johnny Ringo, but I have to agree that Doc would need Pegasus as his horse to make that trip from Colorado to southern Arizona and back. Still, I don't picture Johnny Ringo as a potential suicide. I reckon there must be more to the story. Whoever wrote the lines, "I'm your huckleberry" and "Alright lunger. Let's do it" was a genius. And might I say, Michael Biehn was superb as Johnny Ringo in Tombstone. He'd get that crazed look in his eye and you felt you were watching the real Ringo.
Only it did not happen. Johnny Ringo was shot to death as he was passed out By buckskin Frank Leslie. Doc Holliday was 600 mi away and Wyatt Earp was 700 mi away on the day Ringo was shot while he slept. Although Wyatt Earp and doc Holliday were suspected at one time it can be proven that they could not have been involved Ringo and holiday squared off against each other twice and they were arrested both times an d find for carrying firearms in the city limits. Wyatt Earp refused to even fight him twice and Ringo was drunk earp still wanted no part of him. So unless he telephony he did not say you look like you stepped on someone's grave.
My wife bought your 3rd edition of DOC HOLLIDAY for Christmas!! I can't believe on how far back you went with his genealogy. So enlightening and great pictures. 👍 Enjoying every page! Thanks Bob!
yeah but look at modern westerns that are trying to stay more realistic. they are almost 100% unwatchable. But even in these so called historically accurate modern westerns today are trying to make the Indians out to be the good guys and I am sorry nothing could be farther from the truth.
@@jesusoftheapes The Indians certainly weren’t the bad guys that old Hollywood made them out to be. They were trying to hold on to their homeland and way of life against a group of people who lied to them at every turn. If someone was trying to steal your home, I suspect you would do whatever it takes to save it, legal or not.
@@georgesouthwick7000 If advanced folks from outer space land here - run. There's no way you'll keep your homestead. When hunter/gatherers meet CroMagnon man, all claims to higher morality are off.
Did you mix up the statement on purpose? The line is ".. when the legend becomes fact, print the legend." However since this production tells of all the claims maybe you didn't.
I lived in Tombstone from 1960 to 1966, and started my academic career there in 1960. I witnessed the very first ( I believe) Helldorado performance held in the High School football field. My parents joined the cast for this annual spectacle and participated for years. I was there when an outside group of investors came in and restored the Schieffelin Hall, built the Lookout lodge , and spent heavily on other improvements. Being young , I never really understood the significance of the place or its history, but a little piece of me still calls it home. I visited there again several years ago and was dismayed to find that it has become largely commercial..a mini Disneyland ...and would have probably embarrassed an older generation . I personally enjoyed the film "Tombstone"and simply thought of it as good entertainment. My mother however hated it due to some historical inaccuracies . She had steeped herself in the history of the place and had begun to write a book on the town so I suppose she knew whereof she spoke. I also remember that the town and its notorious history attracted some very unusual characters but this is also a part of its history.
Just bought his Doc Holiday book and it's great with GREAT MAPS! I agree that I really like having the maps because 99% of readers don't know the geographic details.
I am 33 years old, born in 1988. I have recently begun to document my Grandfather's Stories and his father's. I LOVE TOMBSTONE, My grandpa has turned me into a Western Buff. Doc Holliday is my Favorite. Any other related movies you recommend?
Anything you can find on Charles Goodnight. Also, don't recall the name of the book, but there was a book years ago that went in full detail about the Earp's time in tombstone including things never covered by any movie about what led up to the conflict between the Earp's and the Cowboys.
For those of you that think Johnny Ringo committed suicide, I ask ( I not having a copy of the Coroner’s inquest documentation- Maybe Bob can answer this one) A. Where on Johnny Ringo’s head was the bullet wound located ( for location purposes midline nose being 12 o’clock position, center of the back of the head [spinal alignment] being 6 o’clock position, right ear 3 o’clock, left ear area being 9 o’clock). Was stippling ( powder burns) present? Where was his handgun located? In his hand? By his hand? Or several feet away? Which hand was it located by or in? If the coroner’s inquest report is as detailed as people say and using modern forensics it can be determined with a fair degree of accuracy as whether it was suicide or homicide. 20 years in the Army and 15 years in law enforcement, you tend to pick up a thing or two. Take care everyone
Yep if it was suicide there would be stippling around the entrance wound especially with the ammunition being all black powder back then. Given the size of the stippling ring a good investigator can estimate with pretty good accuracy about how far the muzzle of the gun was from the entrance wound. Like you StrongBear my back ground is in military and law enforcement 32 years to be exact and as a former Homicide Detective I sure would love to get a copy of that report. Would be a very interesting read.
@@jamesfranks545 I can't imagine a coroner's report from back then would be detailed enough to describe stippling patterns. They would probably mention stippling if it was present but I would be surprised if they described, and measured any kind of stippling pattern that would allow us to estimate a distance from the skin. They just weren't thinking along those lines back then. However, I am thinking a good coroner may have described the wound well enough to give some insight as to whether or not the gun was close enough for the muzzle blast to have entered the wound cavity. Was it in contact with, or within a few inches of the skin? That could be very telling but it wouldn't rule out murder. Knowing the gun was 20 to 24 inches from the wound, would pretty much rule out suicide though. I totally agree, I would love to read that report. You never know, the coroner just might have mentioned a pronounced ring of stippling approx 7" in diameter and a relatively clean wound channel. Personally, I lean towards the suicide theory but my mind could be changed if the coroners report was detailed enough to indicate the gun was a fair distance from the head. Like you and StrongBear point out, a great deal could be learned if there is a solid, detailed report.
Suicide has been mostly debunked for one important fact that has been discovered. His hat was still on his head when he would have killed himself (He was still wearing it when they discovered him) and based on the entry and exit, it would be nearly impossible for his hat to not have blood on it nor was there a bullet hole in said hat and there would have been if it exited out his top left side of his head. It didn't and this is noted in records. This is why the law was certain Leslie got him and with a friend moved him to make it appear Ringo killed himself (The friend later admits to this on his deathbed). Holliday is recorded to be in another area and being held for court. While Earp could have done it, it would be an insane journey to get to him and be back without anyone noticing. It is also noted that people knew of Earp in the general area and someone likely would have seen and noticed him. The map Earp produced for the crime also had big inconsistencies with the area and thus likely he lied.
All the coroner's report says is that the bullet entered at the right temple and exited the left top of his head. The handgun was in his right hand, and the rifle was leaning against the tree cluster he was found in. Stippling from contact was not noted, neither was any damage (blood or a bullet hole) noted on the hat. At least that's what's in the Coroner's Jury report. A later report from one of the jurors (writing 3-4 *decades* after the fact) says that the hat was on the ground next to the rifle, and that the body was "black from the heat". He also said that there was a bullet path visible in the tree above Johnny's head.
I remember reading someplace that it was thought that Buckskin Frank Leslie killed Johnny Ringo, over a cash loan he welched on or gambling debt or the like, although Ringo's body and guns were found perched in a tree, possibly staged to appear a suicide. I read that someplace, it appeared legitimate. It was a newspaper story or something, if you're interested, do an internet search, you'll find it.
Not true. Did you even watch this video!!! In this video he says he does not care about the truth because "the truth is boring!!!!" He is not a historian. He admits in this video that viewers know the truth better than he does. All this guy does is make clickbate videos spinning stories that will get people attention. He does not care about what the truth is. This video does not answer the question if Doc killed Ringo. In one place he says Doc was too far away at court when Ringo was killed than he admits that Doc was not even in court. This video provides no facts.
@@JesusSavesSinners I’m not sure if you watched the video🤷🏻♂️ He is considered a historian, and in the video he is merely pointing out the various opinions, and thereory’s, as that is all there is. And yes he did answer the question of, did doc Holliday kill Ringo..............and the answer is nobody knows for sure and probably never will. He also states clearly that it is his opinion that Holliday could not have been there when Ringo was killed or committed suicide. So no one really knows if it was murder or suicide much less who was responsible if it was murder. There are a lot of theory’s about who might have killed him, most of whom I’ve never heard of. I feel sure though that Ringo had more than just the Earps, and doc as enemies which leads me to conclusion that any number of people might have been responsible. Personally I believe the suicide theory
@@buffering369-y2fany city, any state, any country, any planet, any scene, any movie, any actor --- Doc Holiday in Tombstone rules, absolute BEST ... perhaps should have said VAL KILMER RULES !!!
I enjoy these talks so very much. The enthusiasm is excellent and reminds me of how I feel learning about all this stuff my whole love and why I love the history of all this.
I admire and love and adore and appreciate val in this film. Vàl playing doc made this movie outstanding. He played the best part and character and most mesmerising. Is performance he deserves 3 to 4 Oscars. And it's still not late to give him an award. God bless you Val for your outstanding performance.
Just because Doc H. was unconscious the last few hours of his life does not mean that the last thing he was noted to say before passing out was the observance concerning his not being shot.
If that "record"wasnt questionable, wth is this discussion about?? Is the entire point reflected in the title and the piece. Knowledgeable as this cowboy is, he proves nothing either way, just offers his opinion. Doesn't make it fact. Ringo was well hated. What better final slight could there be than calling his killing suicide? Not unheard of even from a court.
Well Jim, you might want to, that would depend on whether or not you wanted a “live suspect” or a “deceased perpetrator”. Think now-a-days some refer to it as a “public service shooting or killing”. Not condoning, just saying.
I understood that it was Buckskin Frank Leslie, who had crossed paths with Ringo on the road, who was the last person to see Ringo alive .... and the first to see him dead!
Leslie was looking for Ringo, it is uncertain if they met. However, a couple witnesses did say they saw both. The most important testimony Is from Bill Sanders who claims to have first seen Ringo and then was asked if he had seen Ringo by both Frank Leslie and Billy Claiborne. Since they were both in the general area, this suggests they did meet. The issue of Ringo shooting himself with his rifle is hard to judge as the gun was common and it appears that most travellers of that era had such. It was an expensive rifle, however, Leslie wasn't poor and him taking the rifle wouldn't even be a consideration for him.
Enjoyed meeting you 20yrs ago at your office in Cave Creek.. You were so friendly and genuine...Wish I would of bought one of your paintings.My husband love the one of Tombstone of the 4 walking to the Ok corral.....Blessings to you and family..Keep up the great work...
First person that I ever heard say that the director of Tombstone had a good script everybody else said it was terrible and he didn't know what he was doing and if it wasn't this I know for a fact is true if it wasn't for Kurt Russell the movie would have never been finished that came straight from Val Kilmer
Well you entitled to your opinion I think he would the best part of the movie and so do most people that I've heard from and he wasn't the only one that said the movie was saved by Kurt Russell
I have watched you many times on the History channel and in many historical accounts of old west occurances. I have never heard you speak just as a person like this. I enjoyed listening, but I have to say " you have left me more confused about this, not less. " I still enjoyed it.
Great video, thank you! I am looking for good biographies on Holliday and Wyatt Earp as well as a solid book on the OK Corral to read - any recommendations appreciated
Bob, I have heard that Doc's family paid individuals to bring his body back to Griffin, Georgia to be buried in the cemetery where the Holliday family is buried. Furthermore, he was interned in an unmarked grave so that grave robbers wouldn't attempt to dig him up or damage his marker. Now, I've been in the funeral business all my life. The Civil War was the first noted embalmings done. However, it was a crude process at best. And he had been buried for, who knows how many weeks or months in the ground? So...to have taken Ol' John Henry out of a grave that suffered moisture, rodents and bugs, back by train from Western Colorado to Eastern Georgia, would have been a very unpleasant experience for those sent to retrieve him. Days of travel and an odor beyond comprehension. Again, as a funeral professional, one that well understands these issues, just doesn't seem plausible. Your thoughts, Sir? Thank You! Jeff
I worked on Tombstone I was one of the Buckaroos (one of the cowboys). I was in that seen you spoke of too. I think you are correct, the scene should have stayed in the movie but there was so much good stuff cut out you could make another movie What happened to the Curley Bill "Lets get Wooly" scene? We all thought that was going to be the tag line from the film. You are right someone needs to re do this film the way it was written by Kevin. Wen George Cosmotos took over it completely changed the direction of the film. I heard Kurt Rustle still has all that cut out footage in his garage.
I read somewhere that Russell had to cut a lot of scenes to make the movie work, and he cut a majority that revolved around Wyatt Earp, and his reasoning for that was to show the other actors that they were equals and he and Earp’s character weren’t above anyone. I think we do need a “director’s cut” version, but the version we have is fantastic nonetheless…
I totally agree! After research, I noticed a drastic change from historical events to exaggerated and eschewed events. Yes, it would be boring for people but history is the truth or somewhat.
The Holiday/Ringo shootout may never have happened, but I thought it was interesting that Ringo was shot in the head at an angle, then fired a shot, so he was missing a bullet in his revolver. I found it interesting the the scene showed another way that Ringo came up one bullet short. It may not have been real, but it was interesting how it addressed the missing bullet.
Please keep posting and giving as much info as you can. Memories fade, and the truth will also. You may be the best as far as facts and truth we have. I am from Ga. And grew up about only 30 minutes north of Griffin Ga. All the info of Doc and the Earp's is greatly appreciated.
And you take the word of "Hollywood" fiction writers ,over true history ? You are really a gullible fool. Doc Holliday DID NOT KILL Johnny Ringo, Ringo was killed by Buckskin Frank Leslie.
There is a phenomenon that is well known. That a person can come out of a coma suddenly & have clarity of thought briefly just before they die ! I think this could have happened with Doc Holliday, & the bootless feet story in the hospital bed. It sounds right, that's funny remark. It sounds so very human !!!
My grandmother was in a coma the last 2 days of her life. Suddenly she woke up, stretched her arms out and said "Jesus" four times, then passed on. She was a born again Christian, and l believe she saw The Lord coming to take her home.
Bob is a great guy, I met him at Pioneer living History museum where I was a volunteer for several years and a ,tour guide , gunfighter etc.. Also at the Annual Wickenburg parade. I had an ancestor (Johnny Boyett) that killed the last Earp in Arizona, Warren Earp. Tom Boyte El mirage, Arizona
I don't know how I got here, or that i needed this, but I'm glad I did. Informative, entertaining, and very well done. Awesome job man! Im Definitely now subscribed.
I've visited Doc's grave in Glenwood Springs several times. The idea that Doc's remains are now in someone's back yard comes from a series of washouts from seasonal rains that may have disturbed the grave, which was originally dug shallow because it was winter and the ground was hard. No one has exhumed the grave to my knowledge.
Not in "Somebody's Back Yard, but in a cemetery in Griffin Georgia in one of two Unmarked Graves(The other Internee is supposedly his Mother. His Father is purported to have had Doc Exhumed and brought "Home" to Georgia. Then he had Doc Interred and his Mother moved to reside with her baby Boy "Doc". Is the story true? I have no idea but there are Many who have studied this supposition, and add Credibility to the story. As for me, I like to think that Doc rests next to his Beloved Mother(Who also gave him the Tuberculosis that killed him at age 36), and will rest there forever.......Welcome Home, Doc....I Hope
I heard a song, a story done by Lorne Greene on "Ringo", (aka Ben Cartwright). Even the story in that song was different, Ringo being the fastest gunman alive, no man couldn't match his speed. But Doc Holiday was known to be even faster than Ringo that wasn't mentioned in the song.
Actually there is little historical evidence Ringo was a deadly fast gunfighter. He is only known to have killed two or three men, none of them in exactly what you would call fair fights. Historical record points more to him being a foul tempered drunk than the sophisticated, educated, and deadly gunfighter he is portrayed as in Tombstone.
Even if Doc were unconscious for the last hours of his life… which in my mind is to be expected considering the advanced stages of his tuberculosis & the diminished oxygenation he would obviously have, it’s not difficult to imagine that perhaps one of his last conscious thoughts (or words) were “this is funny”. From what we’ve come to know of the man himself & not simply his mythos, would almost make it a thought we’d expect from him.
Yeah, I don't understand why he used that as a reason to confidently say his alleged last words weren't true. Who's to say he didn't say it before losing consciousness?. I had an aunt who was unconscious and dying of cancer in 2007. While my dad and uncle were in the room talking about hunting, she briefly sprung awake and asked a question relating to the conversation, then lost consciousness again.
It’s certainly possible that Doc Holliday could have said, “Well, this is funny.” before he lost consciousness. I find it unlikely that someone would make up someone’s last words and make them so benign….
Yes, Doc Holiday killed Johnny Ringo, so says many of the outlaws that knew Johnny. The guy that Buckskin Frank Leslie killed was just someone posing as Ringo and stated to several prison guards that Ringo was killed by Doc Holliday so that Ringo wasn't around to keep up the pursuit of Wyatt Earp. How it actually happened he never stated but Leslie never fought on either side of the vendetta so his word should be taken because he had nothing to gain nor lose in telling the truth.
Ringo never did anything worth mentioning, and yes, his name helped his status, for what it was worth, long after he died. There is absolutely zero proof that Ringo was ever involved in any event of significance. He did kill an unarmed man once in a saloon, over something silly, but that was years before Tombstone. He also worked for the Clantons, for a short period of time, but practically everything about Ringo as we know him today has been fabricated. I would imagine he would be fascinated to see modern people talking about him, a man who did nothing significant, only because of the sound of his name. It is madness. Louis L'Amour wrote a short piece years ago about this exact topic, and concluded the same. The name, Johnny Ringo, sounds cool, and that's how it all started. He was nothing.
John Ringo was one of the men who participated in the Mason County War or Hoodoo War in Texas (circa 1875-1876). Ringo's reported activities during that feud and afterwards were the foundation for his notorious reputation, which he had during his life time. For example, the Austin American Statesmen on November 25, 1877 stated: "The notorious John Ringo is now in jail here. He was brought down from Mason county by the rangers on Friday . . . Ringo has some reputation as a desperado and is charged with murder."
On a visit to Tombstone I had a private conversation in the street with a Tombstone resident who worked as a cowboy/historian in one of the attractions and he echoed the same thing.....Ringo was a classless nothing. Not sure when Wyatt Earp started taking credit for doing Ringo but we all know he self embellished his own legend and was trying to sell it to whomsoever would listen....especially Hollywood. I'm sure Sadie (Josephine) was right there urging him on.
Just a Johnny Ringo observation the accounts say his head wound was in his right temple yet the pictures, paintings and tombstone movie depictions all show his headwound in his left temple? We know he was right handed and his gun was still in his right hand, so it would be very difficult to shoot himself square on in the left temple and the gun would most likely not stay in his right hand. So which is it do we need to dig him up to see which side his head wound is on? Why always pictured on the left side? The depictions are not accurate to the way it says he was found.
If Doc Holliday acted like the character Val Kilmer played I can see him shooting Johnny Ringo and leaving that gun by the tree. He was dying anyway so what would he need the gun for?
What has always fascinated me is that they were going about their lives doing what they valued and a hundred years later we try to piece it together. I heard a story a saloon owner killed Ringo. So, who knows, but I love hearing about it and especially the Tombstone movie, perfect cinema!
Not true!!! The history of the OK corral is well documented from the very time it happened. There are written court documents on what happened. People like the author of this video just do not care about the truth. In this video he said he does not care about the truth. The truth is boring according to him. It is very easy to find the entire historical truth for the OK corral and the life and times of Wyatt Earp and Doc Holiday.
I live in Greens Fork, IN, the birth place of Johnny Ringo. It's a tiny little township with nothing of interest but I always tell people I live on the land where Johnny Ringo was born. Probably not true, but the area is so small, it can't be too far off.
Buckskin Frank Leslie was seen twice that day heading toward where Ringo was found. It was reported he was looking for Ringo. He was known to always use a 4 5/8” barrel Colt but was found with a 7 1/2 inch Colt. Leslie always carried a 7 1/2” so he might have left the gun to signal he got even with Ringo.
Doc holiday was in court July 11 & July 16 in Colorado. Rigorous was found July 14, he was dead for a day. The distance hundreds of miles apart. He would have to take a train in Tucson then find Ringo several hundred away in the wilderness & find there way back in too short a time.
So, all we know for certain, is that Wyatt, doc, and Ringo - are all, now dead?? Anyways, movie was excellent, especially, final showdown between doc and ringo
I saw a documentary on the okay Chorale and they mention that Doc Holliday and one of the McCleary we're really the only two that will establish gunfighters who can hit the broadside of a barn pretty much
What about the detail that Ringo's gunbelt was on upside down and that he was left handed but his corpse was found with the pistol in the right hand? And what was the explanation for his feet?
I do love the old westerns and all their inaccuracies and straight up lies, However I am also happy there are researchers like you that let us know what the reality is,
💯 BBB!! I'm a map guy as well, thanks to you I've visited every location of the vendetta ride other than Cottonwood springs...❤ P.S I've watched this video prob 10 or more times😊
i always liked the story about Doc talking about the clothing they wore, and the heat, no wonder people shot people all the time, your wearing wool suits and drinking in 105f that will make anyone testy hahaha
This has been outrageously great. I would love to talk to you about the Earp’s position in Tombstone.Doc Holliday relation with Wyatt and how did it really happen.also the buntline special. If this would ever be possible. I’ve been following you for many years. I like what you have done. Looking forward to what you’re about to do. Great, keep it up.
here's my thing after studying gunslingers is their characters in life. Many of them like Johnny Ringo don't fit the profile of committing suicide as many others even when they were drunk and hung over. They're characters in life was just that, they were more than life and they looked at life as rugged as it was with a hard mind. Compared to those who went West to seek gold where many did commit suicide and many shot in cold blood over lands and what not. If say Wyatt Earp was shot in the head and left at a tree would have been suicide? I think not, because his character never profiled as a depressed person. All gunslingers even like Billy the Kid to Jesse James were highly motivated people. Suicidal people aren't that motivated and most of the time cowards. Would I believe Johnny Ringo was killed by Doc, maybe he did. There is no proof that he didn't or Wyatt. And you have to look at the times of how men held themselves in the West compared to the East of the Elites. There was an honor among men in the West and if it was betrayed it could cost you your life, because friendship was like a Pact and brotherhood. Sort of like the military. They needed each other to protect and keep the work going especially on the Ranches and Farms where the Cowboys originated. Friendship back then wasn't like friendship today. I also don't believe Pat Garrett shot Billy either and for good reason. Because of their History of where they came from together and their friendship. yes movies like to add things in films for more drama and what have you, but most of the time they do get it right. Wyatt Earp and Tombstone are completely different movies based on different accounts. One, like Wyatt Earp with Kevin Costner show Wyatt buffalo hunting which he did for a short time to make money. But that movie was more about Wyatt than the Ok Corral at Tombstone. History of the Wild West is a very difficult part of history to decipher because many people then didn't read or write and those who did were usually not where all the action was or happened and they would get news by word of mouth. Most people back then didn't exaggerate their stories much. I never read an article about a gunslinger bragging he killed 20 men at one time, and even when the News papers would ad fibs in there to get readers attention if it was a part of history, there wasn't much fibbing going on except for the facts of who was really innocent or guilty. I'm a Gulf War Vet. The Wild West isn't as glamourous as the movies like to make it. It was a harsh brutal life. I've never heard of a Gunslinger either of committing suicide either, they just don't have the personality for it. I think for them it would be cowardly. Someone shot Ringo, whether it was Doc, or Wyatt or even someone else I can buy. Suicide? That would be like Doc committing suicide. Now, that's funny. These men didn't have that type of characters through out their entire lives, and I understand depression, but these men no way.
People in their death throes quite often lapse in and out of consciousness in their final moments. Stonewall Jackson did. I sat vigil at one such event. The woman fell into a coma and said nothing for several hours. Suddenly, she awakened for a few seconds, said as clearly as she had ever spoken in her life: "I'm all right," and then passed away. The process is mysterious, and anything is possible.
@@frankbolger3969 my dad, daddy as I called him, was slowly dying from advanced copd. He was pretty much unconscious the last couple days. The morning he passed he looked over my shoulder and asked " is mommy there?" That's what he called his mother. I called my mom mama my entire life so I know he wasn't asking about her. Couple hours of struggling to get a breath and his eyes glassed over, he sat upright in bed with eyes clear and wide open praising The Lord in an unknown tongue and laid his head back. Started breathing slow and easy and finally took his final breath on this earth. Mama was holding his one hand and I was holding his other. Took a lot of the pain away knowing where he took his next breath. Just thought I'd share. Take care
Enjoy your lectures very much. I love Tombstone and I believe it's the movie on that subject, in my humble opinion. However, I took issue with one scene in the movie. It's shows Ike Clanton goes into Fly's and shoots at the Earp's during the fight. I've never heard of that actually happening. The movie didn't need to take artistic license add that for drama. The real event didn't need any emblishment . I was disappointed the director allowed that in the movie. I'd like to hear your opinion on that scene.
They printed the legend and not the facts. I am going through a lot of embellishment even in the court transcripts. The defense told mostly the truth but the real problem is the transcripts mention body positions and the diagrams never made it to that evidence box.
I looked up The Illustrated Life and Time's of Doc Holliday on Amazon to purchase, the book cover art is different than the one Bob held up in the video. Is the copy sold on amazon the same copy that has the maps you show on this video?
Bob this is why I like your channel so much and I agree with you about the maps because it brings everything to life and I believe it actually put you in that place at that time and to know what the times were like weather and everything. It makes the story so much more believable and easy to understand. I remember reading books like Louis l'amour's series and my dad's favorite collection which I have now of them and and another artist whose name slips my mind at this time. Sometimes it takes a special writer without maps to be able to Define an area situation time and even where the sun was in the sky, the description that they give helps illuminate a photograph or movie in my mind. But sometimes I have to reread it.. but with maps it makes it so much simpler to understand and you don't have to reread unless you want to, to get more in depth of the situation. Now I know Lewis Lemoore books are fictional but he does such a great job of defining the situations the times and the individuals even to the looks on their faces. And that's why I think Louis l'amour's books are so simple to be edited and put onto film, like The Sacketts
@@larrybaker9924 Leslie was a gunman in the Tombstone area that was known to be an adversary of Ringo. They were known to be in close proximity at the time of Ringos death.
Do you think they will ever be able to reshoot the ok corral gunfight scene in Tombstone to make it historically accurate? I absolutely love the movie but the inaccuracy of that scene drives me nuts!
My theory is that he was dehydrated, drunk, and possibly experiencing heat exhaustion. Although there was water close by he may not have been in his right state of mind. It was said that he was worried people were trying to get him, could have been suffering from paranoia exasperated by whisky and heat. I think he was going crazy.
Just sad that the more time that passes after these events the more we desire the real story and details. The longer we go the less and less possible it is to know the truth. Right after these events the prime actors involved had very understandable motives to shift the stories around. By the time The stories for put to paper, radio or movies, the stories became extremely romanticized and mythical. We lost the links and opportunities to get direct information on the truth. We all love the mysteries!
Bob did you know that on several occasions because he was frequently asked, Wyatt, who used to frequent several Hollywood movie lots, wrote down on a sheet of paper the exact sequence of who was where at the streetfight (gunfight at the OK Corral) which is what he called it. And he showed this to director John Ford and to Henry Fonda, he described everything on a sheet of paper to them I wonder where that paper is now...
I just want to say that not all date's on record are correct. At those times, for example my mother was born in a little town in Texas. Her date of birth was recorded about a week later. Baby's born were recorded when ever they went into the town or city. This about Doc H. In different city. ??? Who knows? How it really happened. Something in mind. I like these short videos. Thank you!
I agree with you Bob...the coroner's inquest lists items found on Ringo's body in great detail....the 1876 Winchester rifle found leaning up against the tree next to Ringo's body costed $75 dollars in 1882..A heck of a lot of money and a coveted item...if someone murdered Ringo they would have certainly taken that prised possession.
I agree with your assumption wholeheartedly. I can't imagine someone killing Johnny Ringo and then just walking away and leaving a prized possession like that rifle behind.....
I remember watching an episode of _Little House on the Prairie_ where Landon's character bought a Winchester(?) lever-action for $5 and, for him, it was a long time's saving to buy that rifle. That's when I first got an inkling of economics, as I knew how much that same rifle would cost at the time --that same rifle costs ~$800 today (an original like he would've bought would cost a small fortune).
Wyatt Earp always pumped things up to make himself look good. The movie even has a scene in a saloon where Curly Bill grabs a dollar bill that Earp has just signed for a customer, looks at the name and says "Heard of you." Which he probably wouldn't have. Earp was not a major figure in Dodge City, just a deputy. This line of invented stories is testament to the last line in "Man Who Shot Liberty Valance": if fact becomes legend, print the legend
I don't believe that very many people had heard of Wyatt until the publication of Stuart Lake's "biography". He was an unknown next to Bill Hickok, Jesse James, or Bat Masterson.
Bob Bell, I tend to trust your research and instincts so I agree with your acessment that there's no way Doc Holiday gunned down Ringo. I could listen to another of your accounts of where Wyatt Earp was at the time of Ringo's demise because there's room for doubts that he was or was not his executioner. As you stated, there was gray area in the Earp story. I have never been able to accept Wyatt Earp as the West's Pristine Hero of Virtue and Law Man Extraordinare! If we study people and human nature we just can't help but conclude that the activities a man is involved in define the likelihood of his character. Our, "most famous old West lawman" indulged himself in gambling and prostitution and he showed a lust for fame and a determination to define and protect his own legacy. I'm not meaning to judge him but to point out that these activities, especially gambling and prostitution, seldom leave those involved in it untouched and unscathed by the corruption engendered with such practices. Like you mentioned a story told that doesn't entertain the listeners isn't worth telling. Your experience with the speech you gave and were convinced you had settled all doubt and had them seeing it your way only to have the writer you wouldn't identify give his speech and totally change everyone's mind back again reminds me of Shakespeare's Julius Caesar. Brutus convinces the crowd his actions are of the highest virtue and then Marc Anthony turns them 180° and stirs them against Brutus and his cohorts. People are fickle and never let truth interfere with there opinions.
Wow, wish I coulda known of this "talk with Bob Boze Bell" when it occurred! Loved the telling of the stories as much as the info. One day I hope to meet up with Mr. Bell when I hoped to move to Arizona one day! Thank you very much; you're a very entertaining speaker.
If you want to know if Ringo committed suicide or was murdered, somebody find out what happened to his horse. Explanation; If Ringo was going to commit suicide, he most likely would have unsaddled his horse and set him free. If he was murdered, the horse would have been grazing nearby and saddled or tied to a tree. That is the tale of the tape. Find out about his horse.
Val should have got an Oscar for his role as Doc Holliday
AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!100%🥰
Val was Robbed!
I totally agree 👍
Then everyone in the world would be fulfilled
In my humble opinion,Doc Holiday in Tombstone was Val Kilmer's finest role,and greatest performance and portrayal of the legendary gun slinging dentist Doc Holiday!!!
DOC: Whyyy Johnny Ringo, look like someone just walked over your grave!
RINGO: Fights not with you Holliday..
DOC: I beg to differ sir, we started a game we never got to finish... Play for blood, remember??
RINGO: I was just foolin about!!
DOC: I WASN'T..
Probably one of the most bad ass movie scenes ever!!!
i personally prefer the train station all right clanton you called down the thunder well now you've got it great scene
oh yeah!
Its all good 👍😊
Yep. There were so many great lines
I agree! CLASSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🥰🥰🥰❤
Val stole the movie and is Amazing.Nobody really talks about how awesome Michael Biehn was as Ringo.He is such an underrated actor.
Both Are True. Biehn & Kilmer gave Signature Performances, and neither performances would have been nearly as good without the other to buttress it
Two of my favorite westerns are “Wyatt Earp”, and “Tombstone”. I love the way Val Kilmer plays Doc Holiday, but I have to believe that the Dennis Quaid portrayal is probably more accurate. I very much like the persona Kevin Costner brings to Wyatt Earp in his film. I love the “image” that Kurt Russell presents of Wyatt Earp in “Tombstone”.
I like both movies as well. Two things in the Costner version that still drive me nuts are the low ride movie holsters and claiming Bat Masterson’s first name is bartholomew. Both are baffling and totally unnecessary.
I have always thought Quaid was the better Doc Holiday.
I’ve always heard that Dennis Qauds Doc was more realistic, Costners Wyatt as well and from everything I’ve read that’s true.
I'll concede that Costner's dour earp is the more realistic version, but from what I've read about John Henry, I'd give it to val's/jarre's version. Keep in mind that doc was much closer to Morgan's age and had just made attempts at business ventures in dodge in 78' and Las Vegas NM a year later. He was probably not quite the bitter wreck we see Quaid portray, although I'll admit Val was much too hearty looking for 30 yr old doc. Everything else from the piano playing to his "late" in life curiosity about catholicism seem to be true to the man.
Both are fine portrayals...BUT......Doc Never Dressed Like A Homeless & Scruffy Vagrant, like Quaid, but that I believe was due to the fact that Tombstone snatched up all the good Clothing to "Wardrobe" Actors in Tombstone. Doc was Always Known As A Snappy & Fashionable Dresser.
Val Kilmer was so amazing in Tombstone people want to believe it's true. Tombstone is one of my favorite movies but it's not a documentary so people need to be able to separate entertainment from history.
Yes. People wish to believe movie stars are their heroes. I named my son after Sean Connery and he's holding a pellet gun in your avitar and Connery didn't believe people could own guns. They are just entertainers and should never be treated as heroes.
Taking Hollywood movies as accurate history can be a real issue.
May not be 100% accurate but it DID make it my favorite westen flick!
@@vingthor13 That and Unforgiven.
th-cam.com/video/tX9pmGyW9xA/w-d-xo.html
I have visited Tombstone several times. The terrain is horrible, the heat is real, the residents are rare and tourists are mean.
I also loved the fact that the movie hinted at the true story when Doc said "I'm afraid the strain
was more than he could bear." Great script writing... ;-)
When the famous walk to the OK Corral with the three Earps brother's , Doc . asked Wyatt were awash he going .Wyatt told Doc to stay out of it . Worse Wyatt told Doc " none of his BUSSINESS, allegedly Doc said to Wyatt that's a hell of a thing to say to me !
The rest is history 16 th October 1881 ,
I
Dennis was pretty good as well.
@@paulmadmanlee5065he was very good but no one could follow Kilmer’s performance.
Why your no daisy no daisy at all.
No matter the facts, that scene was fantastic and one of the best parts of the movie. I'm your huckleberry , lol.
Except when watching something supposedly historical facts matter
Say when
I'll be your huckleberry was a real moment in the streets. He mentioned it in this talk but in the movie Doc and Wyatt did not get arrested. The Gun fight in the movie with doc is not the best part of the movie. To me it seemed ridiculously hollywood.
Huckleberry = Paul bearer. Huckles are/were the handles on casket. Hucklebearer + Georgia accent = Huckleberry. I always wanted to know what Doc was talking about when he said that. Passing the research forward.
@@jstogdill9195 huckleberry also mean I am your man
Well, Bob, like you said, we all want Doc Holliday to shoot Johnny Ringo, but I have to agree that Doc would need Pegasus as his horse to make that trip from Colorado to southern Arizona and back. Still, I don't picture Johnny Ringo as a potential suicide. I reckon there must be more to the story. Whoever wrote the lines, "I'm your huckleberry" and "Alright lunger. Let's do it" was a genius. And might I say, Michael Biehn was superb as Johnny Ringo in Tombstone. He'd get that crazed look in his eye and you felt you were watching the real Ringo.
Like a random grudge, catching Up to him. 🤷
I guess the phrase Was a fairly popular one in the day. Know what mean. Cuz. 😉
“Why Johnny Ringo…you look like someone just walked all over your grave.”
Best line in the movie.
Your no daisy
@@ianashby1449 You're no daisy at all!
*swoon*
Only it did not happen. Johnny Ringo was shot to death as he was passed out By buckskin Frank Leslie. Doc Holliday was 600 mi away and Wyatt Earp was 700 mi away on the day Ringo was shot while he slept. Although Wyatt Earp and doc Holliday were suspected at one time it can be proven that they could not have been involved Ringo and holiday squared off against each other twice and they were arrested both times an d find for carrying firearms in the city limits. Wyatt Earp refused to even fight him twice and Ringo was drunk earp still wanted no part of him. So unless he telephony he did not say you look like you stepped on someone's grave.
My wife bought your 3rd edition of DOC HOLLIDAY for Christmas!! I can't believe on how far back you went with his genealogy. So enlightening and great pictures. 👍 Enjoying every page! Thanks Bob!
Hollywood never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
yeah but look at modern westerns that are trying to stay more realistic. they are almost 100% unwatchable. But even in these so called historically accurate modern westerns today are trying to make the Indians out to be the good guys and I am sorry nothing could be farther from the truth.
So you don’t know what means based off a true story means ?
@@jesusoftheapes The Indians certainly weren’t the bad guys that old Hollywood made them out to be. They were trying to hold on to their homeland and way of life against a group of people who lied to them at every turn. If someone was trying to steal your home, I suspect you would do whatever it takes to save it, legal or not.
@@deckerhand12
Based on a true story could be any tale. No one "knows" for sure how much truth is warped.
@@georgesouthwick7000
If advanced folks from outer space land here - run. There's no way you'll keep your homestead. When hunter/gatherers meet CroMagnon man, all claims to higher morality are off.
"This is the west sir. When fact becomes legend, print the legend..." The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
Did you mix up the statement on purpose? The line is ".. when the legend becomes fact, print the legend." However since this production tells of all the claims maybe you didn't.
Another great movie.
John Wayne did
I lived in Tombstone from 1960 to 1966, and started my academic career there in 1960. I witnessed the very first ( I believe) Helldorado performance held in the High School football field. My parents joined the cast for this annual spectacle and participated for years. I was there when an outside group of investors came in and restored the Schieffelin Hall, built the Lookout lodge , and spent heavily on other improvements. Being young , I never really understood the significance of the place or its history, but a little piece of me still calls it home. I visited there again several years ago and was dismayed to find that it has become largely commercial..a mini Disneyland ...and would have probably embarrassed an older generation . I personally enjoyed the film "Tombstone"and simply thought of it as good entertainment. My mother however hated it due to some historical inaccuracies . She had steeped herself in the history of the place and had begun to write a book on the town so I suppose she knew whereof she spoke. I also remember that the town and its notorious history attracted some very unusual characters but this is also a part of its history.
Yeah that was nice dude but you didn't say anything about the who killed Johnny Ringo
@@rickmanning6690 I believe that it was Miss peach with a hammer in the Library.
My grandpa lived in Tombstone and is burried in the cemetary there. I'm pretty sure he did not kill Johnny Ringo. So, it could have been Doc?
I've been to Tombstone, lived in Benson for a bit. I really liked going to Boot Hill, (see above post).
@@kevinwatts8221 I always heard, from locals that Johnny shot himself, heard voices supposedly.
Just bought his Doc Holiday book and it's great with GREAT MAPS! I agree that I really like having the maps because 99% of readers don't know the geographic details.
absolutely !!!
Where did you buy this book, please
@Bruce Wayne b
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Yes, what is name of the book?
I am 33 years old, born in 1988. I have recently begun to document my Grandfather's Stories and his father's. I LOVE TOMBSTONE, My grandpa has turned me into a Western Buff. Doc Holliday is my Favorite. Any other related movies you recommend?
Anything you can find on Charles Goodnight. Also, don't recall the name of the book, but there was a book years ago that went in full detail about the Earp's time in tombstone including things never covered by any movie about what led up to the conflict between the Earp's and the Cowboys.
It also gave the full trial transcript on the ok corral shootout.
For those of you that think Johnny Ringo committed suicide, I ask ( I not having a copy of the Coroner’s inquest documentation- Maybe Bob can answer this one) A. Where on Johnny Ringo’s head was the bullet wound located ( for location purposes midline nose being 12 o’clock position, center of the back of the head [spinal alignment] being 6 o’clock position, right ear 3 o’clock, left ear area being 9 o’clock). Was stippling ( powder burns) present? Where was his handgun located? In his hand? By his hand? Or several feet away? Which hand was it located by or in? If the coroner’s inquest report is as detailed as people say and using modern forensics it can be determined with a fair degree of accuracy as whether it was suicide or homicide. 20 years in the Army and 15 years in law enforcement, you tend to pick up a thing or two. Take care everyone
Yep if it was suicide there would be stippling around the entrance wound especially with the ammunition being all black powder back then. Given the size of the stippling ring a good investigator can estimate with pretty good accuracy about how far the muzzle of the gun was from the entrance wound. Like you StrongBear my back ground is in military and law enforcement 32 years to be exact and as a former Homicide Detective I sure would love to get a copy of that report. Would be a very interesting read.
@@jamesfranks545 I can't imagine a coroner's report from back then would be detailed enough to describe stippling patterns. They would probably mention stippling if it was present but I would be surprised if they described, and measured any kind of stippling pattern that would allow us to estimate a distance from the skin. They just weren't thinking along those lines back then. However, I am thinking a good coroner may have described the wound well enough to give some insight as to whether or not the gun was close enough for the muzzle blast to have entered the wound cavity. Was it in contact with, or within a few inches of the skin? That could be very telling but it wouldn't rule out murder. Knowing the gun was 20 to 24 inches from the wound, would pretty much rule out suicide though.
I totally agree, I would love to read that report. You never know, the coroner just might have mentioned a pronounced ring of stippling approx 7" in diameter and a relatively clean wound channel.
Personally, I lean towards the suicide theory but my mind could be changed if the coroners report was detailed enough to indicate the gun was a fair distance from the head. Like you and StrongBear point out, a great deal could be learned if there is a solid, detailed report.
Suicide has been mostly debunked for one important fact that has been discovered. His hat was still on his head when he would have killed himself (He was still wearing it when they discovered him) and based on the entry and exit, it would be nearly impossible for his hat to not have blood on it nor was there a bullet hole in said hat and there would have been if it exited out his top left side of his head. It didn't and this is noted in records. This is why the law was certain Leslie got him and with a friend moved him to make it appear Ringo killed himself (The friend later admits to this on his deathbed). Holliday is recorded to be in another area and being held for court. While Earp could have done it, it would be an insane journey to get to him and be back without anyone noticing. It is also noted that people knew of Earp in the general area and someone likely would have seen and noticed him. The map Earp produced for the crime also had big inconsistencies with the area and thus likely he lied.
All the coroner's report says is that the bullet entered at the right temple and exited the left top of his head. The handgun was in his right hand, and the rifle was leaning against the tree cluster he was found in. Stippling from contact was not noted, neither was any damage (blood or a bullet hole) noted on the hat. At least that's what's in the Coroner's Jury report. A later report from one of the jurors (writing 3-4 *decades* after the fact) says that the hat was on the ground next to the rifle, and that the body was "black from the heat". He also said that there was a bullet path visible in the tree above Johnny's head.
I remember reading someplace that it was thought that Buckskin Frank Leslie killed Johnny Ringo, over a cash loan he welched on or gambling debt or the like, although Ringo's body and guns were found perched in a tree, possibly staged to appear a suicide. I read that someplace, it appeared legitimate. It was a newspaper story or something, if you're interested, do an internet search, you'll find it.
I’ve always enjoyed listening to you on documentaries and now this. Your a no BS story teller and historian. Thanks for taking the time
Not true. Did you even watch this video!!! In this video he says he does not care about the truth because "the truth is boring!!!!" He is not a historian. He admits in this video that viewers know the truth better than he does. All this guy does is make clickbate videos spinning stories that will get people attention. He does not care about what the truth is. This video does not answer the question if Doc killed Ringo. In one place he says Doc was too far away at court when Ringo was killed than he admits that Doc was not even in court. This video provides no facts.
@@JesusSavesSinners I’m not sure if you watched the video🤷🏻♂️
He is considered a historian, and in the video he is merely pointing out the various opinions, and thereory’s, as that is all there is.
And yes he did answer the question of, did doc Holliday kill Ringo..............and the answer is nobody knows for sure and probably never will.
He also states clearly that it is his opinion that Holliday could not have been there when Ringo was killed or committed suicide. So no one really knows if it was murder or suicide much less who was responsible if it was murder. There are a lot of theory’s about who might have killed him, most of whom I’ve never heard of. I feel sure though that Ringo had more than just the Earps, and doc as enemies which leads me to conclusion that any number of people might have been responsible.
Personally I believe the suicide theory
@@craigcook1571 ... Interesting that you wrote "enemies", after the job you did on "theory".
The Wink from Doc Holiday in the movie Tombstone was classic!!!! to set off the gunfight.
Epic
Best scene ever no matter what
@@buffering369-y2fany city, any state, any country, any planet, any scene, any movie, any actor --- Doc Holiday in Tombstone rules, absolute BEST ... perhaps should have said VAL KILMER RULES !!!
A wink . Good way to start a gun fight.
Only second to the hells coming with me scene
I enjoy these talks so very much. The enthusiasm is excellent and reminds me of how I feel learning about all this stuff my whole love and why I love the history of all this.
I admire and love and adore and appreciate val in this film. Vàl playing doc made this movie outstanding. He played the best part and character and most mesmerising. Is performance he deserves 3 to 4 Oscars. And it's still not late to give him an award. God bless you Val for your outstanding performance.
I totally agree.
Just because Doc H. was unconscious the last few hours of his life does not mean that the last thing he was noted to say before passing out was the observance concerning his not being shot.
“Shod”like wearing shoes?
@@garyfrancis6193 yeah it was supposed to be that he wasn't dieing with his boots on. As I understand it.
Wyatt Earp said in a interview that Ringo was the only man he killed that really needed killing.
Wyatt said a lot of things that wasn't true, and for the record he did not kill Ringo, Ringo shot himself.
If that "record"wasnt questionable, wth is this discussion about?? Is the entire point reflected in the title and the piece. Knowledgeable as this cowboy is, he proves nothing either way, just offers his opinion. Doesn't make it fact. Ringo was well hated. What better final slight could there be than calling his killing suicide?
Not unheard of even from a court.
I think this man repeated a notable quote, “Never take a drunk dentist with a shotgun to make a misdemeanor arrest.”😂
Well Jim, you might want to, that would depend on whether or not you wanted a “live suspect” or a “deceased perpetrator”. Think now-a-days some refer to it as a “public service shooting or killing”. Not condoning, just saying.
perhaps this man in this time is more necessary than ever ... still available Doc ???
@@brucewayne3602 lol
Oh, that's a good one (Wyatt just wanted to know that he had at least one psychotic m.f. just in case things went south)
@@jacobturan7948 The horse is that fast in Mother Earp's Reader's Digest and she is perfectly aware of you patient's handling of drink..
I understood that it was Buckskin Frank Leslie, who had crossed paths with Ringo on the road, who was the last person to see Ringo alive .... and the first to see him dead!
That's the same thing I heard.
Leslie was looking for Ringo, it is uncertain if they met. However, a couple witnesses did say they saw both. The most important testimony Is from Bill Sanders who claims to have first seen Ringo and then was asked if he had seen Ringo by both Frank Leslie and Billy Claiborne. Since they were both in the general area, this suggests they did meet. The issue of Ringo shooting himself with his rifle is hard to judge as the gun was common and it appears that most travellers of that era had such. It was an expensive rifle, however, Leslie wasn't poor and him taking the rifle wouldn't even be a consideration for him.
I do love Val kilmer in movie regardless
I have heard that as well, along with about a dozen other unverifiable stories!
Enjoyed meeting you 20yrs ago at your office in Cave Creek.. You were so friendly and genuine...Wish I would of bought one of your paintings.My husband love the one of Tombstone of the 4 walking to the Ok corral.....Blessings to you and family..Keep up the great work...
Just found your channel & being a huge fan of the old west myself I’m glad I found you! Awesome story as well!!
Boze, this is one of the most compelling videos I have seen from you, thank you,
I love this story. Bob Boze Bell is evidently true and real fan and historian of Wild West Era.
First person that I ever heard say that the director of Tombstone had a good script everybody else said it was terrible and he didn't know what he was doing and if it wasn't this I know for a fact is true if it wasn't for Kurt Russell the movie would have never been finished that came straight from Val Kilmer
Val Kilmer isn't exactly the perveyer of authenticity
His over the top, fake accent practically ruined the movie
Well you entitled to your opinion I think he would the best part of the movie and so do most people that I've heard from and he wasn't the only one that said the movie was saved by Kurt Russell
I could listen to you tell stories for days! Great video
I have watched you many times on the History channel and in many historical accounts of old west occurances. I have never heard you speak just as a person like this. I enjoyed listening, but I have to say " you have left me more confused about this, not less. " I still enjoyed it.
The facts are hard to know or follow so confusion is to be expected. I feel the same.
my grandfather use to read every issue of true west back when the magazine first came out.great memories.
Great video, thank you!
I am looking for good biographies on Holliday and Wyatt Earp as well as a solid book on the OK Corral to read - any recommendations appreciated
Bob,
I have heard that Doc's family paid individuals to bring his body back to Griffin, Georgia to be buried in the cemetery where the Holliday family is buried. Furthermore, he was interned in an unmarked grave so that grave robbers wouldn't attempt to dig him up or damage his marker.
Now, I've been in the funeral business all my life. The Civil War was the first noted embalmings done. However, it was a crude process at best. And he had been buried for, who knows how many weeks or months in the ground? So...to have taken Ol' John Henry out of a grave that suffered moisture, rodents and bugs, back by train from Western Colorado to Eastern Georgia, would have been a very unpleasant experience for those sent to retrieve him. Days of travel and an odor beyond comprehension. Again, as a funeral professional, one that well understands these issues, just doesn't seem plausible.
Your thoughts, Sir?
Thank You!
Jeff
I am glad I found your channel, I have been writing western stories for years now and love your stuff.
Ever read Louis Masterson series of Morgan Kane? Noone tops him as a western writer.
I worked on Tombstone I was one of the Buckaroos (one of the cowboys). I was in that seen you spoke of too. I think you are correct, the scene should have stayed in the movie but there was so much good stuff cut out you could make another movie What happened to the Curley Bill "Lets get Wooly" scene? We all thought that was going to be the tag line from the film.
You are right someone needs to re do this film the way it was written by Kevin. Wen George Cosmotos took over it completely changed the direction of the film. I heard Kurt Rustle still has all that cut out footage in his garage.
I read somewhere that Russell had to cut a lot of scenes to make the movie work, and he cut a majority that revolved around Wyatt Earp, and his reasoning for that was to show the other actors that they were equals and he and Earp’s character weren’t above anyone. I think we do need a “director’s cut” version, but the version we have is fantastic nonetheless…
...Curley Bill's best line?....."Well,..bye"......
I totally agree! After research, I noticed a drastic change from historical events to exaggerated and eschewed events. Yes, it would be boring for people but history is the truth or somewhat.
The Holiday/Ringo shootout may never have happened, but I thought it was interesting that Ringo was shot in the head at an angle, then fired a shot, so he was missing a bullet in his revolver. I found it interesting the the scene showed another way that Ringo came up one bullet short. It may not have been real, but it was interesting how it addressed the missing bullet.
Probably won't ever know all of the story. Really enjoyed your video.
Please keep posting and giving as much info as you can. Memories fade, and the truth will also. You may be the best as far as facts and truth we have. I am from Ga. And grew up about only 30 minutes north of Griffin Ga. All the info of Doc and the Earp's is greatly appreciated.
Come on, man! Doc killed Ringo, no question! I saw the movie several times, and I know this to be true.
watch documentaries then. film has different rules
LOL! I know what you mean. :)
I agree, why try and ruin a masterpiece
And you take the word of "Hollywood" fiction writers ,over true history ? You are really a gullible fool. Doc Holliday DID NOT KILL Johnny Ringo, Ringo was killed by Buckskin Frank Leslie.
@@brucemorrison2132 Did you ever hear of the word sarcasm?
I’ve seen these old videos and love that we can come back and rewatch them to catch anything we might have missed
There is a phenomenon that is well known. That a person can come out of a coma suddenly & have clarity of thought briefly just before they die ! I think this could have happened with Doc Holliday, & the bootless feet story in the hospital bed. It sounds right, that's funny remark. It sounds so very human !!!
My grandmother was in a coma the last 2 days of her life. Suddenly she woke up, stretched her arms out and said "Jesus" four times, then passed on. She was a born again Christian, and l believe she saw The Lord coming to take her home.
Thank you for this. You are an awesome story teller and explainer. Loved it all.
Bob is a great guy, I met him at Pioneer living History museum where I was a volunteer for several years and a ,tour guide , gunfighter etc.. Also at the Annual Wickenburg parade. I had an ancestor (Johnny Boyett) that killed the last Earp in Arizona, Warren Earp.
Tom Boyte
El mirage, Arizona
I don't know how I got here, or that i needed this, but I'm glad I did. Informative, entertaining, and very well done. Awesome job man! Im Definitely now subscribed.
I've visited Doc's grave in Glenwood Springs several times. The idea that Doc's remains are now in someone's back yard comes from a series of washouts from seasonal rains that may have disturbed the grave, which was originally dug shallow because it was winter and the ground was hard. No one has exhumed the grave to my knowledge.
Not in "Somebody's Back Yard, but in a cemetery in Griffin Georgia in one of two Unmarked Graves(The other Internee is supposedly his Mother. His Father is purported to have had Doc Exhumed and brought "Home" to Georgia. Then he had Doc Interred and his Mother moved to reside with her baby Boy "Doc".
Is the story true? I have no idea but there are Many who have studied this supposition, and add Credibility to the story.
As for me, I like to think that Doc rests next to his Beloved Mother(Who also gave him the Tuberculosis that killed him at age 36), and will rest there forever.......Welcome Home, Doc....I Hope
I heard a song, a story done by Lorne Greene on "Ringo", (aka Ben Cartwright). Even the story in that song was different, Ringo being the fastest gunman alive, no man couldn't match his speed. But Doc Holiday was known to be even faster than Ringo that wasn't mentioned in the song.
Actually there is little historical evidence Ringo was a deadly fast gunfighter. He is only known to have killed two or three men, none of them in exactly what you would call fair fights. Historical record points more to him being a foul tempered drunk than the sophisticated, educated, and deadly gunfighter he is portrayed as in Tombstone.
Even if Doc were unconscious for the last hours of his life… which in my mind is to be expected considering the advanced stages of his tuberculosis & the diminished oxygenation he would obviously have, it’s not difficult to imagine that perhaps one of his last conscious thoughts (or words) were “this is funny”. From what we’ve come to know of the man himself & not simply his mythos, would almost make it a thought we’d expect from him.
Yeah, I don't understand why he used that as a reason to confidently say his alleged last words weren't true.
Who's to say he didn't say it before losing consciousness?. I had an aunt who was unconscious and dying of cancer in 2007. While my dad and uncle were in the room talking about hunting, she briefly sprung awake and asked a question relating to the conversation, then lost consciousness again.
It’s certainly possible that Doc Holliday could have said, “Well, this is funny.” before he lost consciousness. I find it unlikely that someone would make up someone’s last words and make them so benign….
You sir are a National Treasure, Just love listening to your knowledge of the Wild West !
Yes, Doc Holiday killed Johnny Ringo, so says many of the outlaws that knew Johnny. The guy that Buckskin Frank Leslie killed was just someone posing as Ringo and stated to several prison guards that Ringo was killed by Doc Holliday so that Ringo wasn't around to keep up the pursuit of Wyatt Earp. How it actually happened he never stated but Leslie never fought on either side of the vendetta so his word should be taken because he had nothing to gain nor lose in telling the truth.
Your passion and transparency are refreshing. Real life isn't glamorous. Thanks for the pros, cons, possibilities and probabilities.
Ringo never did anything worth mentioning, and yes, his name helped his status, for what it was worth, long after he died. There is absolutely zero proof that Ringo was ever involved in any event of significance. He did kill an unarmed man once in a saloon, over something silly, but that was years before Tombstone. He also worked for the Clantons, for a short period of time, but practically everything about Ringo as we know him today has been fabricated. I would imagine he would be fascinated to see modern people talking about him, a man who did nothing significant, only because of the sound of his name. It is madness. Louis L'Amour wrote a short piece years ago about this exact topic, and concluded the same. The name, Johnny Ringo, sounds cool, and that's how it all started. He was nothing.
John Ringo was one of the men who participated in the Mason County War or Hoodoo War in Texas (circa 1875-1876). Ringo's reported activities during that feud and afterwards were the foundation for his notorious reputation, which he had during his life time. For example, the Austin American Statesmen on November 25, 1877 stated: "The notorious John Ringo is now in jail here. He was brought down from Mason county by the rangers on Friday . . . Ringo has some reputation as a desperado and is charged with murder."
On a visit to Tombstone I had a private conversation in the street with a Tombstone resident who worked as a cowboy/historian in one of the attractions and he echoed the same thing.....Ringo was a classless nothing. Not sure when Wyatt Earp started taking credit for doing Ringo but we all know he self embellished his own legend and was trying to sell it to whomsoever would listen....especially Hollywood. I'm sure Sadie (Josephine) was right there urging him on.
Just a Johnny Ringo observation the accounts say his head wound was in his right temple yet the pictures, paintings and tombstone movie depictions all show his headwound in his left temple? We know he was right handed and his gun was still in his right hand, so it would be very difficult to shoot himself square on in the left temple and the gun would most likely not stay in his right hand. So which is it do we need to dig him up to see which side his head wound is on? Why always pictured on the left side? The depictions are not accurate to the way it says he was found.
If Doc Holliday acted like the character Val Kilmer played I can see him shooting Johnny Ringo and leaving that gun by the tree. He was dying anyway so what would he need the gun for?
A trophy
Doc had no fear because he was dying anyway ,so that made Doc a dangerous man.
What has always fascinated me is that they were going about their lives doing what they valued and a hundred years later we try to piece it together. I heard a story a saloon owner killed Ringo. So, who knows, but I love hearing about it and especially the Tombstone movie, perfect cinema!
Not true!!! The history of the OK corral is well documented from the very time it happened. There are written court documents on what happened. People like the author of this video just do not care about the truth. In this video he said he does not care about the truth. The truth is boring according to him. It is very easy to find the entire historical truth for the OK corral and the life and times of Wyatt Earp and Doc Holiday.
As they say in "The Man who shot Liberty Valance"- "When the Legend Becomes Fact, Print the Legend!"
I live in Greens Fork, IN, the birth place of Johnny Ringo. It's a tiny little township with nothing of interest but I always tell people I live on the land where Johnny Ringo was born. Probably not true, but the area is so small, it can't be too far off.
Great stuff! Can’t wait for the next episode. 😀
Buckskin Frank Leslie was seen twice that day heading toward where Ringo was found. It was reported he was looking for Ringo. He was known to always use a 4 5/8” barrel Colt but was found with a 7 1/2 inch Colt. Leslie always carried a 7 1/2” so he might have left the gun to signal he got even with Ringo.
th-cam.com/video/tX9pmGyW9xA/w-d-xo.html
I actually live 10 miles from Valdosta which is where Doc lived for a while and have been to the house he lived in its pretty crazy to think about
Doc holiday was in court July 11 & July 16 in Colorado. Rigorous was found July 14, he was dead for a day. The distance hundreds of miles apart. He would have to take a train in Tucson then find Ringo several hundred away in the wilderness & find there way back in too short a time.
So, all we know for certain, is that Wyatt, doc, and Ringo - are all, now dead?? Anyways, movie was excellent, especially, final showdown between doc and ringo
Those two actors stole the movie.
I believe one is still alive
You’re a terrific story teller😀
I saw a documentary on the okay Chorale and they mention that Doc Holliday and one of the McCleary we're really the only two that will establish gunfighters who can hit the broadside of a barn pretty much
What about the detail that Ringo's gunbelt was on upside down and that he was left handed but his corpse was found with the pistol in the right hand? And what was the explanation for his feet?
I do love the old westerns and all their inaccuracies and straight up lies, However I am also happy there are researchers like you that let us know what the reality is,
💯 BBB!! I'm a map guy as well, thanks to you I've visited every location of the vendetta ride other than Cottonwood springs...❤ P.S I've watched this video prob 10 or more times😊
i always liked the story about Doc talking about the clothing they wore, and the heat, no wonder people shot people all the time, your wearing wool suits and drinking in 105f that will make anyone testy hahaha
It snowed the day before the street fight.
This has been outrageously great. I would love to talk to you about the Earp’s position in Tombstone.Doc Holliday relation with Wyatt and how did it really happen.also the buntline special. If this would ever be possible. I’ve been following you for many years. I like what you have done. Looking forward to what you’re about to do. Great, keep it up.
Great talk. The book called. And Die in the West : The Story of the O.K. Coral is a really great resource of information.
here's my thing after studying gunslingers is their characters in life. Many of them like Johnny Ringo don't fit the profile of committing suicide as many others even when they were drunk and hung over. They're characters in life was just that, they were more than life and they looked at life as rugged as it was with a hard mind. Compared to those who went West to seek gold where many did commit suicide and many shot in cold blood over lands and what not. If say Wyatt Earp was shot in the head and left at a tree would have been suicide? I think not, because his character never profiled as a depressed person. All gunslingers even like Billy the Kid to Jesse James were highly motivated people. Suicidal people aren't that motivated and most of the time cowards. Would I believe Johnny Ringo was killed by Doc, maybe he did. There is no proof that he didn't or Wyatt. And you have to look at the times of how men held themselves in the West compared to the East of the Elites. There was an honor among men in the West and if it was betrayed it could cost you your life, because friendship was like a Pact and brotherhood. Sort of like the military. They needed each other to protect and keep the work going especially on the Ranches and Farms where the Cowboys originated. Friendship back then wasn't like friendship today. I also don't believe Pat Garrett shot Billy either and for good reason. Because of their History of where they came from together and their friendship. yes movies like to add things in films for more drama and what have you, but most of the time they do get it right. Wyatt Earp and Tombstone are completely different movies based on different accounts. One, like Wyatt Earp with Kevin Costner show Wyatt buffalo hunting which he did for a short time to make money. But that movie was more about Wyatt than the Ok Corral at Tombstone. History of the Wild West is a very difficult part of history to decipher because many people then didn't read or write and those who did were usually not where all the action was or happened and they would get news by word of mouth. Most people back then didn't exaggerate their stories much. I never read an article about a gunslinger bragging he killed 20 men at one time, and even when the News papers would ad fibs in there to get readers attention if it was a part of history, there wasn't much fibbing going on except for the facts of who was really innocent or guilty. I'm a Gulf War Vet. The Wild West isn't as glamourous as the movies like to make it. It was a harsh brutal life. I've never heard of a Gunslinger either of committing suicide either, they just don't have the personality for it. I think for them it would be cowardly. Someone shot Ringo, whether it was Doc, or Wyatt or even someone else I can buy. Suicide? That would be like Doc committing suicide. Now, that's funny. These men didn't have that type of characters through out their entire lives, and I understand depression, but these men no way.
I've distinctly read that Doc was unconscious for hours
but that he awoke asked for a drink and passed away
People in their death throes quite often lapse in and out of consciousness in their final moments. Stonewall Jackson did. I sat vigil at one such event. The woman fell into a coma and said nothing for several hours. Suddenly, she awakened for a few seconds, said as clearly as she had ever spoken in her life: "I'm all right," and then passed away. The process is mysterious, and anything is possible.
@@frankbolger3969 my dad, daddy as I called him, was slowly dying from advanced copd. He was pretty much unconscious the last couple days. The morning he passed he looked over my shoulder and asked " is mommy there?" That's what he called his mother. I called my mom mama my entire life so I know he wasn't asking about her. Couple hours of struggling to get a breath and his eyes glassed over, he sat upright in bed with eyes clear and wide open praising The Lord in an unknown tongue and laid his head back. Started breathing slow and easy and finally took his final breath on this earth. Mama was holding his one hand and I was holding his other. Took a lot of the pain away knowing where he took his next breath. Just thought I'd share. Take care
@@nobodyspecial6513You, too.
Was the book Wyatt gave Doc. My Friend Doc Halliday by Wyatt Earp true and does anyone have it. Does a copy exist.
I believe you know more than the average Joe. It’s obvious you put your life in to the history of the old west. Subscribed
Is the transcript of Doc's trial available?
Enjoy your lectures very much. I love Tombstone and I believe it's the movie on that subject, in my humble opinion. However, I took issue with one scene in the movie. It's shows Ike Clanton goes into Fly's and shoots at the Earp's during the fight. I've never heard of that actually happening. The movie didn't need to take artistic license add that for drama. The real event didn't need any emblishment . I was disappointed the director allowed that in the movie. I'd like to hear your opinion on that scene.
They printed the legend and not the facts. I am going through a lot of embellishment even in the court transcripts. The defense told mostly the truth but the real problem is the transcripts mention body positions and the diagrams never made it to that evidence box.
I looked up The Illustrated Life and Time's of Doc Holliday on Amazon to purchase, the book cover art is different than the one Bob held up in the video. Is the copy sold on amazon the same copy that has the maps you show on this video?
I always wished the same Tombstone actors had made a part 2. Well, for the characters who were not in Boothill !!!!
I wanna see a remake with Tom Hardy as Doc
Bob this is why I like your channel so much and I agree with you about the maps because it brings everything to life and I believe it actually put you in that place at that time and to know what the times were like weather and everything. It makes the story so much more believable and easy to understand. I remember reading books like Louis l'amour's series and my dad's favorite collection which I have now of them and and another artist whose name slips my mind at this time. Sometimes it takes a special writer without maps to be able to Define an area situation time and even where the sun was in the sky, the description that they give helps illuminate a photograph or movie in my mind. But sometimes I have to reread it.. but with maps it makes it so much simpler to understand and you don't have to reread unless you want to, to get more in depth of the situation. Now I know Lewis Lemoore books are fictional but he does such a great job of defining the situations the times and the individuals even to the looks on their faces. And that's why I think Louis l'amour's books are so simple to be edited and put onto film, like The Sacketts
It is my understanding that Doc was in court 200 miles from Ringo when he was killed. Wyatt was in Denver. I think Frank Leslie killed Ringo.
I heard it was Luke Short. He and Ringo had run ins and bad blood existed. Short was a very under rated and under appreciated bad ass.
Who was Frank Leslie ? I think Ringo committed suicide.
@@larrybaker9924 Leslie was a gunman in the Tombstone area that was known to be an adversary of Ringo. They were known to be in close proximity at the time of Ringos death.
Thanks Larry for the information on Frank Leslie.
Doc was in court in Colorado? Do any court records exist?
Do you think they will ever be able to reshoot the ok corral gunfight scene in Tombstone to make it historically accurate? I absolutely love the movie but the inaccuracy of that scene drives me nuts!
My theory is that he was dehydrated, drunk, and possibly experiencing heat exhaustion. Although there was water close by he may not have been in his right state of mind. It was said that he was worried people were trying to get him, could have been suffering from paranoia exasperated by whisky and heat. I think he was going crazy.
Just sad that the more time that passes after these events the more we desire the real story and details. The longer we go the less and less possible it is to know the truth. Right after these events the prime actors involved had very understandable motives to shift the stories around. By the time The stories for put to paper, radio or movies, the stories became extremely romanticized and mythical. We lost the links and opportunities to get direct information on the truth. We all love the mysteries!
I don't love the mystery. I want to know the facts and truth. Lol
Which is why I fully share the sentiment in your first sentence.
I met Bob in a little store in Apache Junction (AJ) AZ. He is a true Western Gentleman.
Flynn's story should be in True West magazine. Has it ever been done before?
Fantastic perspectives. Very entertaining. Thank you.
Bob did you know that on several occasions because he was frequently asked, Wyatt, who used to frequent several Hollywood movie lots, wrote down on a sheet of paper the exact sequence of who was where at the streetfight (gunfight at the OK Corral) which is what he called it. And he showed this to director John Ford and to Henry Fonda, he described everything on a sheet of paper to them I wonder where that paper is now...
How can we even believe his account of that, if he supposedly claimed that he killed Johnny Ringo?
Will someone please explain what the initials OK stands for?
This is a very interesting video. I bet you keep people GLUED for hours! And I’d like to be one of those someday!
Thanks Bob, I always enjoy a good yarn about the old west...
I just want to say that not all date's on record are correct. At those times, for example my mother was born in a little town in Texas. Her date of birth was recorded about a week later. Baby's born were recorded when ever they went into the town or city. This about Doc H. In different city. ??? Who knows? How it really happened. Something in mind. I like these short videos. Thank you!
This was just great! Thank you
I agree with you Bob...the coroner's inquest lists items found on Ringo's body in great detail....the 1876 Winchester rifle found leaning up against the tree next to Ringo's body costed $75 dollars in 1882..A heck of a lot of money and a coveted item...if someone murdered Ringo they would have certainly taken that prised possession.
I agree with your assumption wholeheartedly. I can't imagine someone killing Johnny Ringo and then just walking away and leaving a prized possession like that rifle behind.....
That's a great theory right there
I remember watching an episode of _Little House on the Prairie_ where Landon's character bought a Winchester(?) lever-action for $5 and, for him, it was a long time's saving to buy that rifle. That's when I first got an inkling of economics, as I knew how much that same rifle would cost at the time --that same rifle costs ~$800 today (an original like he would've bought would cost a small fortune).
@Mark Twain I can tell you read the coroner's inquest document......BWHAAAA!
@Mark Twain or already overloaded with gear.
Wyatt Earp always pumped things up to make himself look good. The movie even has a scene in a saloon where Curly Bill grabs a dollar bill that Earp has just signed for a customer, looks at the name and says "Heard of you." Which he probably wouldn't have. Earp was not a major figure in Dodge City, just a deputy. This line of invented stories is testament to the last line in "Man Who Shot Liberty Valance": if fact becomes legend, print the legend
I don't believe that very many people had heard of Wyatt until the publication of Stuart Lake's "biography". He was an unknown next to Bill Hickok, Jesse James, or Bat Masterson.
Bob Bell, I tend to trust your research and instincts so I agree with your acessment that there's no way Doc Holiday gunned down Ringo. I could listen to another of your accounts of where Wyatt Earp was at the time of Ringo's demise because there's room for doubts that he was or was not his executioner. As you stated, there was gray area in the Earp story. I have never been able to accept Wyatt Earp as the West's Pristine Hero of Virtue and Law Man Extraordinare! If we study people and human nature we just can't help but conclude that the activities a man is involved in define the likelihood of his character. Our, "most famous old West lawman" indulged himself in gambling and prostitution and he showed a lust for fame and a determination to define and protect his own legacy. I'm not meaning to judge him but to point out that these activities, especially gambling and prostitution, seldom leave those involved in it untouched and unscathed by the corruption engendered with such practices. Like you mentioned a story told that doesn't entertain the listeners isn't worth telling. Your experience with the speech you gave and were convinced you had settled all doubt and had them seeing it your way only to have the writer you wouldn't identify give his speech and totally change everyone's mind back again reminds me of Shakespeare's Julius Caesar. Brutus convinces the crowd his actions are of the highest virtue and then Marc Anthony turns them 180° and stirs them against Brutus and his cohorts. People are fickle and never let truth interfere with there opinions.
Wow, wish I coulda known of this "talk with Bob Boze Bell" when it occurred! Loved the telling of the stories as much as the info. One day I hope to meet up with Mr. Bell when I hoped to move to Arizona one day! Thank you very much; you're a very entertaining speaker.
If you want to know if Ringo committed suicide or was murdered, somebody find out what happened to his horse. Explanation; If Ringo was going to commit suicide, he most likely would have unsaddled his horse and set him free. If he was murdered, the horse would have been grazing nearby and saddled or tied to a tree. That is the tale of the tape. Find out about his horse.
I hear you but maybe. If he was depressed and suicidal he was not thinking straight and in a dark place probably not thinking straight.
He was stone-cold junk he wasn't thinking about releasing it horse as somebody who's been stone-cold drunk before you not thinking about nothing
Love This, Got Your Magazine Now. Awesome Story. Keep Posting !!!