The best way to think about the confused status and the thwart is a non-confused hero knows there is not a crime in progress to stop but a confused hero is not aware enough and will try to stop something that is not a threat
While I don't know that I am inclined to disagree with you, I guess I'm just wondering what aspects of WOTC do you think don't care or play their games? Because I do think that to some extent over the last 4 years, magic has gone in a direction where I don't necessarily feel like WOTC has is a good finger on the pulse of what is fun, but I don't know that I walk away feeling like they don't understand their own game.
@@TheMaskedHero , I play Magic and my family plays D&D so I agree they are fun…let me steer this back to praise of FFG and why this rules update is exceptional in this industry. The content here is all about improving game play or aligning rules to the way the player base is actually playing the game. There is no artificial restrictions that build FOMO or penalize 3rd party promotion of the IP. This is demonstrated faith that if you make great content and support the community then the company will meet it’s market goals. What makes bad content? Big corporate pressure to make artificial scarcity that over emphasizes collectibles vs functional game pieces. When the FFG organized play kits came out they added collectible fun without adding game functionality that was unobtainable for some the community. That’s the way a game should be nurtured. One person’s experience and opinion.
The setup changes with permanents I was already doing so I never even questioned Wolverines claws. Same with the encounter deck. Already was doing all that beforehand. So that’s nice that I was doing it the way the designers apparently wanted it done lol
Just want to take a moment to thank you for all that you do for this game and the community Nelson! Reading the document is one thing, but listening to someone discuss some of the changes and give examples of how they work is what really matters. The change that lets you Thwart without a valid target while confused is weird but great that they let you essentially take the moment to recollect yourself so you can continue thwarting the villain.
@@NelsonAllOverCards I'm not quite sure I follow. So colossus can do a basic defend and if it blocks the entire attack then the tough is retained. But what if he uses a card such as expert defense while doing a basic defend? Does the card resolve before the tough status?
@@awesomeanimal good question - it all depends on timing, since expert defense interrupts the defend action to up the defense then it would be “checked” before the tough. But if you used cards to prevent the damage applied like side step the tough would go before the card
@@NelsonAllOverCards Not really, considering the new timing priority and the difference between damage dealt and damage taken, this is actually answered in the first question of Appendix IV: FAQ. "No. Status cards have priority over all triggered abilities, like interrupts, so the tough status card must be discarded to prevent all of the damage before any other abilities could trigger. A hero can keep their tough status card if: 1. A constant effect reduces the damage the hero takes to zero. This is because constant effects have priority over status cards. 2. The hero makes a basic defense and their DEF reduces the damage dealt by the attacking enemy’s ATK to zero. This is because a basic defense reduces the amount of damage dealt by the attacker, rather than the amount of damage taken by the defender."
@@salsatheone but like a desperate defense increases the base defense when the defender is declared, that makes me think it is before the damage dealt window?
Also you can play defense events while your allies are defending (assuming the condition to play them is true of course), so you can defend with an ally and use Defiance. Finally all those protection allies with retaliate can be put to use.
Best addition was the clarification for Change Form (due to Kitty Pride) on page 17. I wasn't allowing the use of cards that said "when you change form" because I used to believe "mass form" was different than "form" (identity). Well turns out, "type-form" does allow triggering effects so... Perserance, Moxie, Ready to Rumble, Surprise Attack and Lay Down the Law are all back in the menu!!
Great video, so happy to have a rules update! I wish they changed a few more heroes' setup, but at least the Permanent rules and Wolverine help some characters. Need to find time to read deeper into all the changes - I bet a lot of small interactions have changed. I find it interesting how they changed Go For Champions. I wonder if we'll ever see any changes to other powerhouse cards? Or even weaker cards improved? I hope so. Theres a huge amount of cards I almost never use.
Thanks for the video pretty handy ! The thing about Ironman and the power glove is that thematicaly, Ironman wears the glove so it would make no sense at all if the glove did not triggers before the consequential damage.
That’s the biggest issue I’ve had when FFG errata an LCG. Can we maybe order these errata’ed cards in a pack somehow, cause if you expect me to remember all this crap, I won’t and will play the card as is
Yea, they may talk about it eventually, but I am very happy with what they have done so far! Hopefully myself and other channels can help fill in the videos!
Pretty Upset the errata section is only to nerf cards (I mean, I agree with all changes made) but not a simple card from Hulk or Valkyrie pack has been buffed.
I think it’s to curb those maniacs that say things like “Ronan? Pffff!!! I beat him on Expert blindfolded, with Valkyrie with my drunk uncle!” I will never understand the masochists who think this game is “way too easy” and in turn makes FFG release erratas that suck or villains like Ronan, that need multiple expansion purchases to make the one deck just to maybe have a chance at beating him.
@@ramonosuke I completely agree with You. Imho, Héroes should be OP and capable of wining almost every scenario easily. And then, modulars will come to make it harder. Cheers.
Not sure about that she hulk thing. Forced response trigger. is after she attacks. Either basic attack or event attack. The stuns if an effect. So it shouldn’t matter if the enemy is already stunned.
I think previously - yes, now it does not because there is not a valid target for the effect of the card to trigger therefore the forced response cannot go off
Also I could totally be off on this, but I would need it explained lol because the new rules really make me think this is the way it works now: No Valid Target->No Forced Trigger. You do not take into account the cost of the card when determining the valid target, just the effect
@@NelsonAllOverCards the valid target dosent impact her card. It’s a trigger after she attacks. That’s why I mentioned it. But great video. Well presented
The way I see it is, this card is discarded when she attacks, even if the enemy is stunned already. If the new ruling is that you HAVE to (be able to) stun an enemy to trigger the forced response, then she cannot attack a stunned character, as you don’t have a valid target to attack. That seems dumb, and not how I’d play it.
@@playdgamewithsteve Why would the valid target not impact that card? From what I understood from the update the only exception to the valid target rule is when you have a status effect on your hero?
The only house rule that I created is that the cards that are on the table I can recycle them and get the resource printed on the card. Except for permanent cards.
I think there's some ambiguity in "choose the option you can mostly fulfill" when you can't fulfill in its totality any option. If the options are "discard 4 cards from your hand" and "exhaust two characters you control" in a situation where you only have two cards in hand and only one character ready, which option would be "mostly fulfilled"? You could say, hey it's the same because I can only fulfill half of each option in either case. Or you could say the exhaust option is the one you can mostly fulfill because you'll only fail to exhaust 1 character instead o failing to discard 2 cards. But one could also say that you mostly fulfill the discard option because you discard 2 cards instead of only exhausting 1 character, so you do more in that case.
That’s a really really good point and I do think my hypothetical example was pretty extreme. For the most part there is always an example that you could fulfill totally - it may suck, but I can’t think of one off the top of my head that you wouldn’t be able to do at least one option totally. That being said, it could easily be an issue in the future
Btw you jest about the periods to MODOK, but if they didn't that would imply that newer (and this is foreshadowing in fact) M.O.D.O.K. VILLAIN would be considered a separate card and thus valid to include a modular set MODOK. Or even future cards that target M.O.D.O.K. woulnd't affect his modular set. Nothing goes unnoticed!! hahahaha
If you haven't taken a look at the game since a few months after it came out, is this everything you'd need to know for today? Also where can you find this stuff? I saw small blog posts on FFG's website and they're hard to find or even know of their existence. Are those included in that mega rules reference because if they are it would be easier than tracking down individual posts, especially the errata. Thanks!
No, there have been some major changes in previous rules updates. The article was where they announced it, but if you go to the RRG on the product page on their website, that is where it is probably easiest found!
For the rule about being able to do something only if it changes game state, it made sense that Spider Ham could recover at full HP because it changed the gamestate (giving him a toon counter), now can he not do a basic recovery at full? I'm not sure offhand if there's a rule that you can't Recover at full, or if it was the gamestate rule that was preventing it before.
I have always healed first turn to get a toon counter because I was told basic hero actions don’t need to change the game state. Now it sounds like he wouldn’t be a legal target to heal since he would already be at full health. Really not sure though, would love some clarity on this.
We have reached out to FFG to get clarification on this. Are you on the discord (the one in the description of the video) that’s where we should get the answer, if not I’ll come back and update here too!
This affects Groot now also, correct? I had been playing that tough protects the counters because I preferred that but I had always seen the counters were supposed to go even if he was tough. Either way, yes I am printing a chart and keeping next to my play area haha. Thanks Nelson for the summary.
Yes, technically the cards text will read with the new ruling. I’m not 100% sure if those get updated and printed in new packs or not though, I would assume yes?
This is probably a very basic question, but just wanted to clarify about She-Hulk's Superhuman Strenght - is Forced Response mandatory or optional when she attacks?
What happens now if you attack with She-hulk having two superhuman strengths? do you still only stun once (or twice) and discard both or do you keep one of the superhuman strengths?
Since Put Setup Cards Into Play is step 11 and Draw Cards is step 14, does this mean that my boy Vision gets +1 card in his opening hand? If so, good for him.
Unfortunately no. "Setup cards" refers to cards with the "Setup" keyword (just consider all the player cards from the "hydra campaign" set, they all have that), not setup abilities. In the new revised setup sequence setup abilities on identity cards are resolved at step 16, which is the very last step.
You are so right.... whoops, should be there now lol its also here: images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/b6/30/b630ddfe-e745-435b-a284-572dd510e15d/mc_rulesreference_v15-compressed.pdf
Cosmo hurts, cause I just built Strange’s deck using that and it was nice but nothing “game changing” he will find better use elsewhere. A change that I wish would come is removing the “Forced” out of Groot’s passive. Sadly Go For Champions is an obnoxious change. The card already has a ton of restrictions, 3 cost;Champions only;max 1 per deck. But remove from the game seems like a stretch. Why not deal yourself another encounter card as an additional cost? I wish a change they would implement for cards like “Gang Up” or “Advance” is not drawing a boost card for that activation. If anything that is much more scathing pulling multiple Advances than “Go For Champions” will ever be.
The Cosmo errata is good, but let's be honest here - any player that was using a deck that was not the Encounter or Player deck with Cosmo was at best being disengenuous and at worst cheating.
The Cosmo change sucks and is really stupid. Is the company seriously trying to punish and hurt the players? You shouldn't nerf the player cards...this is a co-op game, not competitive.
@@Raphaelus13 In a co-op game, I think it's incredibly stupid to limit player cards and nerf heroes. There's no reason for it other than to say "screw you" to your player base. Competitive games.... completely different story. I'm fine with this kind of crap in competitive games.
@@Raphaelus13 How is it limiting anything but the player by doing that?! You're only reducing what a player can doing that... period. It's still just a big old "F- You" to the players.
![[TH] VALORANT Champions Seoul - Grand Final - EDG vs TH](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WvObMc9VelI/mqdefault.jpg)
The best way to think about the confused status and the thwart is a non-confused hero knows there is not a crime in progress to stop but a confused hero is not aware enough and will try to stop something that is not a threat
Oh that’s a good way to look at it!
This rule update is strong proof that the team at FFG plays the game…much better than Hasbro and WoTC. I hope FFG stays the right size.
Good point, they play and they care which is so great for the game and the community!
While I don't know that I am inclined to disagree with you, I guess I'm just wondering what aspects of WOTC do you think don't care or play their games?
Because I do think that to some extent over the last 4 years, magic has gone in a direction where I don't necessarily feel like WOTC has is a good finger on the pulse of what is fun, but I don't know that I walk away feeling like they don't understand their own game.
@@TheMaskedHero , I play Magic and my family plays D&D so I agree they are fun…let me steer this back to praise of FFG and why this rules update is exceptional in this industry.
The content here is all about improving game play or aligning rules to the way the player base is actually playing the game. There is no artificial restrictions that build FOMO or penalize 3rd party promotion of the IP. This is demonstrated faith that if you make great content and support the community then the company will meet it’s market goals.
What makes bad content? Big corporate pressure to make artificial scarcity that over emphasizes collectibles vs functional game pieces. When the FFG organized play kits came out they added collectible fun without adding game functionality that was unobtainable for some the community. That’s the way a game should be nurtured.
One person’s experience and opinion.
Thanks for this video. Channels like yours are doing good work when going through the new rules and sparking discussions.
Thank you so much!
The setup changes with permanents I was already doing so I never even questioned Wolverines claws. Same with the encounter deck. Already was doing all that beforehand. So that’s nice that I was doing it the way the designers apparently wanted it done lol
Just want to take a moment to thank you for all that you do for this game and the community Nelson! Reading the document is one thing, but listening to someone discuss some of the changes and give examples of how they work is what really matters. The change that lets you Thwart without a valid target while confused is weird but great that they let you essentially take the moment to recollect yourself so you can continue thwarting the villain.
I really appreciate this thank you so much!
Also I like the idea of thematically recollecting yourself!
Totally agree with you about the timing list. I plan to print that chart out and added to my game box.
It’s going to be so helpful!
Spider-Man still not a Web Warrior :(
I think the change about tough status cards are quite significant for colossus. That you can defend instead of taking away the tough.
Yep! And I believe this was the case beforehand as well, but we have clarifications on how the defense events work now which is great!
@@NelsonAllOverCards I'm not quite sure I follow. So colossus can do a basic defend and if it blocks the entire attack then the tough is retained. But what if he uses a card such as expert defense while doing a basic defend? Does the card resolve before the tough status?
@@awesomeanimal good question - it all depends on timing, since expert defense interrupts the defend action to up the defense then it would be “checked” before the tough. But if you used cards to prevent the damage applied like side step the tough would go before the card
@@NelsonAllOverCards Not really, considering the new timing priority and the difference between damage dealt and damage taken, this is actually answered in the first question of Appendix IV: FAQ.
"No. Status cards have priority over all triggered abilities, like interrupts, so the tough status card must be discarded to prevent all of the damage before any other abilities could trigger. A hero can keep their tough status card if:
1. A constant effect reduces the damage the hero takes to zero. This is because constant effects have priority over status cards.
2. The hero makes a basic defense and their DEF reduces the damage dealt by the attacking enemy’s ATK to zero. This is because a basic defense reduces the amount of damage dealt by the attacker, rather than the amount of damage taken by the defender."
@@salsatheone but like a desperate defense increases the base defense when the defender is declared, that makes me think it is before the damage dealt window?
Defense events that prevent damage can now be played outside of attacks to prevent damage! Wiggle Room, Side Step, Shield Block, etc
Oh that’s massive!
Also you can play defense events while your allies are defending (assuming the condition to play them is true of course), so you can defend with an ally and use Defiance. Finally all those protection allies with retaliate can be put to use.
Love the change to GfC so much. I might actually start playing that card now
Best addition was the clarification for Change Form (due to Kitty Pride) on page 17. I wasn't allowing the use of cards that said "when you change form" because I used to believe "mass form" was different than "form" (identity). Well turns out, "type-form" does allow triggering effects so... Perserance, Moxie, Ready to Rumble, Surprise Attack and Lay Down the Law are all back in the menu!!
Oh very nice!!
Most of the rule changes I was already doing anyway.
Nice! Yea it is cool that there were not crazy changes!
Great video, so happy to have a rules update! I wish they changed a few more heroes' setup, but at least the Permanent rules and Wolverine help some characters. Need to find time to read deeper into all the changes - I bet a lot of small interactions have changed.
I find it interesting how they changed Go For Champions. I wonder if we'll ever see any changes to other powerhouse cards? Or even weaker cards improved? I hope so. Theres a huge amount of cards I almost never use.
Thanks!! Yea there are a lot of smaller changes that I think can have some really interesting impacts! Hope we get some boosts!
Great job, thanks for this!
Thanks for the video pretty handy !
The thing about Ironman and the power glove is that thematicaly, Ironman wears the glove so it would make no sense at all if the glove did not triggers before the consequential damage.
That makes totally sense!
Sure the card updates are fine but my cards wont change. SO either im just playing how i used to, or need to mark the cards somehow.
Yea that’s true, I think Hall of Heroes has had errata cards in the past that you can print - maybe that would be an option?
That’s the biggest issue I’ve had when FFG errata an LCG. Can we maybe order these errata’ed cards in a pack somehow, cause if you expect me to remember all this crap, I won’t and will play the card as is
I put (all) my cards in sleeves and can put a little note inside the sleeve for errata updates if needed. Works fine for me.
A little surprised that FFG doesn't have the resources to provide a video themselves, for accessibility concerns.
Yea, they may talk about it eventually, but I am very happy with what they have done so far! Hopefully myself and other channels can help fill in the videos!
Pretty Upset the errata section is only to nerf cards (I mean, I agree with all changes made) but not a simple card from Hulk or Valkyrie pack has been buffed.
Yea that is interesting, it would be cool to get an update to some of those cards at some point!
I think it’s to curb those maniacs that say things like “Ronan? Pffff!!! I beat him on Expert blindfolded, with Valkyrie with my drunk uncle!” I will never understand the masochists who think this game is “way too easy” and in turn makes FFG release erratas that suck or villains like Ronan, that need multiple expansion purchases to make the one deck just to maybe have a chance at beating him.
@@ramonosuke I completely agree with You. Imho, Héroes should be OP and capable of wining almost every scenario easily. And then, modulars will come to make it harder. Cheers.
Not sure about that she hulk thing. Forced response trigger. is after she attacks. Either basic attack or event attack. The stuns if an effect. So it shouldn’t matter if the enemy is already stunned.
I think previously - yes, now it does not because there is not a valid target for the effect of the card to trigger therefore the forced response cannot go off
Also I could totally be off on this, but I would need it explained lol because the new rules really make me think this is the way it works now: No Valid Target->No Forced Trigger. You do not take into account the cost of the card when determining the valid target, just the effect
@@NelsonAllOverCards the valid target dosent impact her card. It’s a trigger after she attacks. That’s why I mentioned it. But great video. Well presented
The way I see it is, this card is discarded when she attacks, even if the enemy is stunned already. If the new ruling is that you HAVE to (be able to) stun an enemy to trigger the forced response, then she cannot attack a stunned character, as you don’t have a valid target to attack. That seems dumb, and not how I’d play it.
@@playdgamewithsteve Why would the valid target not impact that card? From what I understood from the update the only exception to the valid target rule is when you have a status effect on your hero?
The only house rule that I created is that the cards that are on the table I can recycle them and get the resource printed on the card. Except for permanent cards.
I watched this while washing the dishes, still found washing the dishes more interesting...
Just read the reference book ( ty for the link tho)
Glad the dishes were so exciting!
I think there's some ambiguity in "choose the option you can mostly fulfill" when you can't fulfill in its totality any option. If the options are "discard 4 cards from your hand" and "exhaust two characters you control" in a situation where you only have two cards in hand and only one character ready, which option would be "mostly fulfilled"? You could say, hey it's the same because I can only fulfill half of each option in either case. Or you could say the exhaust option is the one you can mostly fulfill because you'll only fail to exhaust 1 character instead o failing to discard 2 cards. But one could also say that you mostly fulfill the discard option because you discard 2 cards instead of only exhausting 1 character, so you do more in that case.
That’s a really really good point and I do think my hypothetical example was pretty extreme. For the most part there is always an example that you could fulfill totally - it may suck, but I can’t think of one off the top of my head that you wouldn’t be able to do at least one option totally.
That being said, it could easily be an issue in the future
Status cards: they are valid target solely based on the text on the status card. If you would thwart or attack, discard this status card instead.
That makes a ton of sense - not sure why I didnt look at it that way lol
finally M.O.D.O.K. getting the RESPECT he deserves. No longer will he become the joke! no longer will humpty dumpty be seen as a king on a wall!
We should hold a celebration, let it be known that May 18th will be M.O.D.O.K. Day!
Btw you jest about the periods to MODOK, but if they didn't that would imply that newer (and this is foreshadowing in fact) M.O.D.O.K. VILLAIN would be considered a separate card and thus valid to include a modular set MODOK. Or even future cards that target M.O.D.O.K. woulnd't affect his modular set.
Nothing goes unnoticed!! hahahaha
Oooh yea I like that!!
If you haven't taken a look at the game since a few months after it came out, is this everything you'd need to know for today? Also where can you find this stuff? I saw small blog posts on FFG's website and they're hard to find or even know of their existence. Are those included in that mega rules reference because if they are it would be easier than tracking down individual posts, especially the errata. Thanks!
No, there have been some major changes in previous rules updates. The article was where they announced it, but if you go to the RRG on the product page on their website, that is where it is probably easiest found!
God I'm so happy with the setup changes and Permanent changes.
Same!!
For the rule about being able to do something only if it changes game state, it made sense that Spider Ham could recover at full HP because it changed the gamestate (giving him a toon counter), now can he not do a basic recovery at full? I'm not sure offhand if there's a rule that you can't Recover at full, or if it was the gamestate rule that was preventing it before.
I have always healed first turn to get a toon counter because I was told basic hero actions don’t need to change the game state. Now it sounds like he wouldn’t be a legal target to heal since he would already be at full health. Really not sure though, would love some clarity on this.
We have reached out to FFG to get clarification on this. Are you on the discord (the one in the description of the video) that’s where we should get the answer, if not I’ll come back and update here too!
@@NelsonAllOverCards I'll have to check it out, the game's taking over my life, maysel full send lol
This affects Groot now also, correct? I had been playing that tough protects the counters because I preferred that but I had always seen the counters were supposed to go even if he was tough.
Either way, yes I am printing a chart and keeping next to my play area haha.
Thanks Nelson for the summary.
Yep, tough status cards have priority over the forced interrupt printed on Groot!
You’re welcome!
Noob question but on the errata section, does the text on the card get updated?
Yes, technically the cards text will read with the new ruling. I’m not 100% sure if those get updated and printed in new packs or not though, I would assume yes?
@@NelsonAllOverCards that would make sense. I’m wondering if they call that out on the packaging so that you know you’re buying the updated version
This is probably a very basic question, but just wanted to clarify about She-Hulk's Superhuman Strenght - is Forced Response mandatory or optional when she attacks?
How do Forced Responses and Interrupts work? #marvelchampions #marvelchampionslcg #boardgames
What happens now if you attack with She-hulk having two superhuman strengths? do you still only stun once (or twice) and discard both or do you keep one of the superhuman strengths?
Since Put Setup Cards Into Play is step 11 and Draw Cards is step 14, does this mean that my boy Vision gets +1 card in his opening hand? If so, good for him.
Unfortunately no. "Setup cards" refers to cards with the "Setup" keyword (just consider all the player cards from the "hydra campaign" set, they all have that), not setup abilities. In the new revised setup sequence setup abilities on identity cards are resolved at step 16, which is the very last step.
@@JannPoo Aw, man. Poor guy. Ah well, thanks for the explanation.
Question thought. Douse storms weather deck apply to the villain/minions as well as all of the heroes?
Yep!
Hi, i dont see the link below
You are so right.... whoops, should be there now lol its also here: images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/b6/30/b630ddfe-e745-435b-a284-572dd510e15d/mc_rulesreference_v15-compressed.pdf
Cosmo hurts, cause I just built Strange’s deck using that and it was nice but nothing “game changing” he will find better use elsewhere. A change that I wish would come is removing the “Forced” out of Groot’s passive.
Sadly Go For Champions is an obnoxious change. The card already has a ton of restrictions, 3 cost;Champions only;max 1 per deck. But remove from the game seems like a stretch. Why not deal yourself another encounter card as an additional cost?
I wish a change they would implement for cards like “Gang Up” or “Advance” is not drawing a boost card for that activation. If anything that is much more scathing pulling multiple Advances than “Go For Champions” will ever be.
The Cosmo errata is good, but let's be honest here - any player that was using a deck that was not the Encounter or Player deck with Cosmo was at best being disengenuous and at worst cheating.
The Cosmo change sucks and is really stupid. Is the company seriously trying to punish and hurt the players? You shouldn't nerf the player cards...this is a co-op game, not competitive.
They explained the card was limiting new ideas they have for future content.
Also, it was obviously reasonable.
@@Raphaelus13 In a co-op game, I think it's incredibly stupid to limit player cards and nerf heroes. There's no reason for it other than to say "screw you" to your player base.
Competitive games.... completely different story. I'm fine with this kind of crap in competitive games.
@@pietrorasputin52 They explained the card was limiting new ideas they have for future content.
@@Raphaelus13 How is it limiting anything but the player by doing that?! You're only reducing what a player can doing that... period.
It's still just a big old "F- You" to the players.