That’s the same setup I put on my hard rock! Did it with your help, thank you! A bike I had for a while and I wanted to get back into riding. So enjoy biking again and getting the exercise. I really only use the throttle when I hit a traffic situation where I feel it will help me get out of the way faster.
Amen! Nice build...as usual. My 1st and still favorite build was my old stand by Cannondale F7 MTB (2008 or 9, I think). Not unlike this build. It took me a while to figure that instead of a small 30t chainring I needed a bigger ring (with the offset to use my low gears) & a wider ratio cassette. With a 42t chainring and 42t granny gear you can climb anything the tires can grip, if you can stay on the bike;) I wish there were more like you back in 2016. My build would have been much faster. It took months of research to figure out that no legally powered hub was going to make it up the hill I live on & I didn't convert my MTB for over a year. You did a video comparison of hub & mid drives a while back that broke down everything I would have needed to know in about 15 minutes. Keep up the good works.
Just did an HD motor on my 10 year old Trek hard tail. Wonderful result, great to ride but I still like my 8kg road bike for the obvious reasons. I wanted to fit the kit to my 2013 Trek Remedy 8 dual suspension but the battery won’t fit in the normal position and i don’t think it’s possible to fit a rack due to the moving rear end. Am looking for a suitable donor bike and the newer bikes have 92 mm bottom brackets so my 68-73mm motor won’t work. You certainly learn a lot about bottom brackets when trying to do this. Great site JN.
You're so right about Specialized! I'm still riding a Cross Country Pro with 40 K km of distance on it - about half on serious double-diamond off-road trails. Nice build and I'm paying close attention, grin.
the motors come in different spindle lengths 68-73mm, 100mm, 120mm are the most common. unless its a plus or fat bike you usually want the 63-73mm. You might need bottom bracket spacers to offset the motor to clear your chainstays. Bafangusadirect has print-out measurement things you can use to measure your bike and ensure the motor will fit
Hope you get a chance to do a tadpole style trike soon. Easiest install next to a recumbent delta. Talk about fast and efficient and you don't lose any comfort in the process. If I stay in this ice box next Winter, I am building a trike with a heated seat! No ice, ice ruts or snow to keep me from riding (fat tires suck on packed snow, ice and are uncontrollable on ice ruts).
Love the idea of the trike. You may be overly harsh on fat bikes. For ice & snow it's all about the tire. With the basic tires that come on bikes snow & ice riding are sketchy no matter the vehicle. I can't speak from experience but would assume, in ice & snow, a studded snow tire on a fat bike vs a trike with basic tires, the fat bike would do better (for grip not comfort).
@@michaelsprinzeles4022 studded tires are good on smooth ice. They are passable only on packed snow, but worthless and energy robbing on ice ruts and cleared patches of pavement. Add the dive and squirm of fat tires and you can get into trouble quick (nothing beats them on a field of snow, flattened grass or in sand). Having ridden studs, fat tires and a trike, the trike wins for a lot of reasons, but mostly that one efficient tire for most riding will also do the trick for snow, ice, rutted ice and dry pavement. I have avoided trikes for my entire 30 years of Winter commuting. Image means nothing at 65 and my commute is down to 6 miles each way and I will not continue to miss out on my daily ride.
@@MHH3180 You speak from experience so I'll take your word. I Only just bought a fat bike (have only had it in snow twice) and while not as nimble as smaller width tires I haven't had the same issues, but I'm also riding for fun so slowing down isn't the same problem as when commuting. Living in NYC I wouldn't feel comfortable commuting in traffic on a trike (not sure about a fat bike). Fortunately I no longer need to commute. Now I just use my bikes for local errands and fun as well as avoid burning gas when I can. Unfortunately a trike wouldn't fit easily in my apartment and I couldn't afford the accompanying divorce or I'd definitely build a trike (as well as anything I could think of) for fun runs on the local greenways. I've seen many trikes along the Hudson River Greenway (never seen one on the street) and thought "that's awesome & would probably make for an energy efficient e-bike". Who cares what others think as you enjoy rolling by? I think they look fun.
@@michaelsprinzeles4022 yeah, normal urban commuting, I would not be comfortable using a trike. I do know a guy who has been doing so for years. I have the luxury of segregated paths and low speed residential back streets to get most places I want and more nimble upright bikes for the rest. I am spoiled. I have a garage. My wife won't use it, so I have plenty of room for bikes, parts and tools on top of what is at the shop.
@@MHH3180 Sure, rub it in.😉 Sounds like a nice area to ride. While the streets to get there are hectic I am not far away from a rails to trails greenway that stretches about a hundred miles upstate (I don't have enough range to explore it all😁) and connects with other greenways along the way. In the other direction is the Hudson river greenway but there are local streets to get there and some stairs to deal with.
Johnny, I have a KHS Zaca I bought new in 2014. It is a good bike. Not high end but a good quality bike nevertheless. I am torn between buying a already made e-bike or convert the KHS to e-bike. Your video is just what I needed to help my decision. I have not decided yet. Thanks for the info!
And I took your advice and brought a 36T chain ring and gear shift sensor on it and because i already had a 48v battery the bike and motor only cost me £600 plus the 500c😁👍🏾
you're right Johnny, we get excited to know how much you can customize a mid drive. I would love for you to have more accessories for the cyclon: chainrings, sensors, BB, mounting brackets, freewheels ect. they are almost impossible to acquire for the cyclon platform.
You have a great weekend my brother! 💪💪👊👊 ..so close to my first ebike build! See what the newest version of this motor can do? Lol god bless. Those lights way easier than relays..
My bro has had my 2012 Specialized Hardrock collecting dust in his garage for the past 9 years. I'd like to convert it to an ebike and would like to (possibly?) ditch the derailleur and get an internal gear hub. Nothing but easy riding for me with a few hills on mostly paved surfaces or hard packed gravel. Suggestions (provided you have time) or a quick thought about the direction I am leaning?
Love the build. Your videos for me to want to build mine up. But I need some input as I think I bought the wrong bottom bracket size cause I didn't understand it. I bought a 68mm bafang and I thought that was what I needed for the diameter of the bottom bracket not the width. Well after getting the motor installed I realized my bottom bracket said 100.5mm and I couldn't get the lock washers to get to into the motor. So that means I needed the 100mm width bafang motor right ? I'm bummed I didn't catch this when I ordered as I used to build bikes 10 years ago. And I never built a bike as nice as the one I have now. Thanks , hope I hear from ya.
yes, the battery is undersized, could have fit a 52v 20AH triangle battery on that frame. it can probably do 20 miles but you are gonna have to pedal assist with that. With a 52v 20ah battery you can get a good 30 or 35 miles running the bbshd on 80-100% current without much pedaling
What you describe is actually preferred, more BMS amperage than max amp rating of the controller of the motor. Go for it. I have a 45 amp BMS max discharge with my BBSHD. The reason why this works is because the controller controls how much amperage is drawn from the battery. Johnny's point is...you don't want the battery BMS to clip amperage lower than what the controller draws to feed the motor. Keep in mind, 30 amps is only drawn in the highest power setting of the BBSHD. It is amperage that determines what power level you are set to on the display. For example, power level 2 may be around 10 amps or so and why you go slower in power level 2 versus max. Now, consider the BBSHD with aftermarket controller can live with 4000w max. If you do the math, that around 50-70 amps depending on battery voltage. There are some very fast BBSHD's running around with 72V battery at with high amp discharge. The architecture of the BBSHD can take it. In fact, you can spend less money and buy the BBS02 and with aftermarket controller it can live with 2500W max. These motors are robust. I personally like the BBSHD with stock controller because 35-40mph is fast enough on a bicycle. If you need to go 55mph, buy a Honda Grom which is about 10 hp...but can't ride it on bike trails and you need a license for it...but suspension can take the bumps which is key.
i'd get a 52v for the BBSHD. In my experience as long as the BMS is capable of doing CONTINUOUS 30A, it is sufficient for the stock BBSHD controller. I ride the BBSHD at 60-80% current because you get nearly the same performance and much better range, at the cost of slightly slower acceleration. Even if you tell the BBSHD to use 100% current its not typically drawing 30A continuous. It's not going to hurt to have a more capable BMS... but its unnecessary with the stock controller that only does 30A
Great and informative! ..did a bbshd about 3 months ago, love it! ..changed my standard pressed steel 46t sprocket for a lekkie 42t sprocket for better chain line, certainly recommend that you fit a gear sensor with this much power, also fitted an extra strong gmc ebike dedicated chain, although I would use the original as a spare, ..fingers crossed it'll give good service! I've fitted a 52v 17.5ah battery with a spare for longer trips, if you do get a spare battery be careful to get the same connectors so you just swap the battery out of the same backing plate as I did, ..another bike I've done is front hub 500w bafang on a hybrid bike, but would say use hydraulic brakes when you can as I sent off for kit with brake levers. Should have used brake sensors with original hydraulic brakes! Being my first build I used the ones supplied ie cable brakes onto mechanical disc, Certainly not got the stopping power of my bbshd build with brake sensors, hopefully this will help others doing a similar build out there.
BBS02 kit starts at 450$ and BBSHD kits start at 650$. A 52v 20Ah triangle battery is about 400$. Shift sensor is about 30$ usd. Not sure about Johnny's labor cost but a build can be done in a day
I'm getting a bafang mid Drive for my bike and hopefully I should have it in a couple of weeks and I made sure it came with a battery with the conversion kit😂
Hi Jonny - I think you made this vid just for me 😂 I have a Specialized Crave 29er that is just itching for a conversion! Could you help me put together a good kit?
Hi I have the same bike ( e converted) but my wheel keeps coming off even with torque arm fitted. Anyone else had this problem with aluminium frame dropouts?
True, but he will be using this in traffic. It already has a heavy off road fork. A heavy battery would make it a lot less nimble. That battery should give him 30 miles range if he pedals (60-90 cadence, mid-level boost, 15mph). For urban cycling, that's really the sweet spot.
Hi Johnny, love ur channel. Can you please do a video about converting a Cargo bike? Like is hub in frontwheel(s) better, OR hub in rearwheel, OR midmotor? They uasualy have no gears and break with rear wheel by peddaling back. We use these a lot in Holland. Tnx man and keep up the good work. Greetings from Holland.
Mustapha, I put a Tongsheng TSDZ2 coaster brake version on my wife's 3 speed coaster brake cruiser. I have been. Commuting on it for nearly a year and really like it. The additional torque vs a hub drive, when climbing hills or taking off with a load, should be huge!
for a cargo bike you want a mid drive, not a hub. You want some gearing as well, even low end threaded freewheels can work. A coaster hub as you described is not a great idea for an ebike
That’s the same setup I put on my hard rock! Did it with your help, thank you! A bike I had for a while and I wanted to get back into riding. So enjoy biking again and getting the exercise. I really only use the throttle when I hit a traffic situation where I feel it will help me get out of the way faster.
Amen!
Nice build...as usual.
My 1st and still favorite build was my old stand by Cannondale F7 MTB (2008 or 9, I think). Not unlike this build. It took me a while to figure that instead of a small 30t chainring I needed a bigger ring (with the offset to use my low gears) & a wider ratio cassette. With a 42t chainring and 42t granny gear you can climb anything the tires can grip, if you can stay on the bike;)
I wish there were more like you back in 2016. My build would have been much faster. It took months of research to figure out that no legally powered hub was going to make it up the hill I live on & I didn't convert my MTB for over a year. You did a video comparison of hub & mid drives a while back that broke down everything I would have needed to know in about 15 minutes.
Keep up the good works.
Just did an HD motor on my 10 year old Trek hard tail. Wonderful result, great to ride but I still like my 8kg road bike for the obvious reasons. I wanted to fit the kit to my 2013 Trek Remedy 8 dual suspension but the battery won’t fit in the normal position and i don’t think it’s possible to fit a rack due to the moving rear end.
Am looking for a suitable donor bike and the newer bikes have 92 mm bottom brackets so my 68-73mm motor won’t work. You certainly learn a lot about bottom brackets when trying to do this. Great site JN.
You're so right about Specialized! I'm still riding a Cross Country Pro with 40 K km of distance on it - about half on serious double-diamond off-road trails. Nice build and I'm paying close attention, grin.
What size BBSHD lower bracket did you get for the Specialized Hardrock? Were there any modifications needed to fit it to the lower bracket?
the motors come in different spindle lengths 68-73mm, 100mm, 120mm are the most common. unless its a plus or fat bike you usually want the 63-73mm. You might need bottom bracket spacers to offset the motor to clear your chainstays. Bafangusadirect has print-out measurement things you can use to measure your bike and ensure the motor will fit
Hope you get a chance to do a tadpole style trike soon. Easiest install next to a recumbent delta. Talk about fast and efficient and you don't lose any comfort in the process. If I stay in this ice box next Winter, I am building a trike with a heated seat! No ice, ice ruts or snow to keep me from riding (fat tires suck on packed snow, ice and are uncontrollable on ice ruts).
Love the idea of the trike.
You may be overly harsh on fat bikes. For ice & snow it's all about the tire. With the basic tires that come on bikes snow & ice riding are sketchy no matter the vehicle. I can't speak from experience but would assume, in ice & snow, a studded snow tire on a fat bike vs a trike with basic tires, the fat bike would do better (for grip not comfort).
@@michaelsprinzeles4022 studded tires are good on smooth ice. They are passable only on packed snow, but worthless and energy robbing on ice ruts and cleared patches of pavement. Add the dive and squirm of fat tires and you can get into trouble quick (nothing beats them on a field of snow, flattened grass or in sand). Having ridden studs, fat tires and a trike, the trike wins for a lot of reasons, but mostly that one efficient tire for most riding will also do the trick for snow, ice, rutted ice and dry pavement. I have avoided trikes for my entire 30 years of Winter commuting. Image means nothing at 65 and my commute is down to 6 miles each way and I will not continue to miss out on my daily ride.
@@MHH3180 You speak from experience so I'll take your word. I Only just bought a fat bike (have only had it in snow twice) and while not as nimble as smaller width tires I haven't had the same issues, but I'm also riding for fun so slowing down isn't the same problem as when commuting. Living in NYC I wouldn't feel comfortable commuting in traffic on a trike (not sure about a fat bike). Fortunately I no longer need to commute. Now I just use my bikes for local errands and fun as well as avoid burning gas when I can. Unfortunately a trike wouldn't fit easily in my apartment and I couldn't afford the accompanying divorce or I'd definitely build a trike (as well as anything I could think of) for fun runs on the local greenways. I've seen many trikes along the Hudson River Greenway (never seen one on the street) and thought "that's awesome & would probably make for an energy efficient e-bike". Who cares what others think as you enjoy rolling by? I think they look fun.
@@michaelsprinzeles4022 yeah, normal urban commuting, I would not be comfortable using a trike. I do know a guy who has been doing so for years. I have the luxury of segregated paths and low speed residential back streets to get most places I want and more nimble upright bikes for the rest. I am spoiled. I have a garage. My wife won't use it, so I have plenty of room for bikes, parts and tools on top of what is at the shop.
@@MHH3180 Sure, rub it in.😉
Sounds like a nice area to ride.
While the streets to get there are hectic I am not far away from a rails to trails greenway that stretches about a hundred miles upstate (I don't have enough range to explore it all😁) and connects with other greenways along the way. In the other direction is the Hudson river greenway but there are local streets to get there and some stairs to deal with.
Awesome video!
Johnny, I have a KHS Zaca I bought new in 2014. It is a good bike. Not high end but a good quality bike nevertheless. I am torn between buying a already made e-bike or convert the KHS to e-bike. Your video is just what I needed to help my decision. I have not decided yet.
Thanks for the info!
My first conversion was a 1987 hardrock, that newer hardrock is gorgeous
And I took your advice and brought a 36T chain ring and gear shift sensor on it and because i already had a 48v battery the bike and motor only cost me £600 plus the 500c😁👍🏾
you're right Johnny, we get excited to know how much you can customize a mid drive. I would love for you to have more accessories for the cyclon: chainrings, sensors, BB, mounting brackets, freewheels ect. they are almost impossible to acquire for the cyclon platform.
You have a great weekend my brother! 💪💪👊👊 ..so close to my first ebike build! See what the newest version of this motor can do? Lol god bless. Those lights way easier than relays..
My bro has had my 2012 Specialized Hardrock collecting dust in his garage for the past 9 years. I'd like to convert it to an ebike and would like to (possibly?) ditch the derailleur and get an internal gear hub. Nothing but easy riding for me with a few hills on mostly paved surfaces or hard packed gravel. Suggestions (provided you have time) or a quick thought about the direction I am leaning?
What's grease types are best to use with bbshd. Getting close to 1k miles and wanna do a total clean inside and regrease everything.
Love the build. Your videos for me to want to build mine up. But I need some input as I think I bought the wrong bottom bracket size cause I didn't understand it. I bought a 68mm bafang and I thought that was what I needed for the diameter of the bottom bracket not the width. Well after getting the motor installed I realized my bottom bracket said 100.5mm and I couldn't get the lock washers to get to into the motor. So that means I needed the 100mm width bafang motor right ? I'm bummed I didn't catch this when I ordered as I used to build bikes 10 years ago. And I never built a bike as nice as the one I have now. Thanks , hope I hear from ya.
Unfortunately yes it sounds like you need the 100mm ☹️
I know this is a difficult question but is a 11.6ah battery undersized for a 1000W BBSHD? Will range be a concern if the owner was going 20mi a day?
yes, the battery is undersized, could have fit a 52v 20AH triangle battery on that frame. it can probably do 20 miles but you are gonna have to pedal assist with that. With a 52v 20ah battery you can get a good 30 or 35 miles running the bbshd on 80-100% current without much pedaling
Hi, what happens if I get a 48V 40A BMS and battery for the 30A BBSHD?
What you describe is actually preferred, more BMS amperage than max amp rating of the controller of the motor. Go for it. I have a 45 amp BMS max discharge with my BBSHD. The reason why this works is because the controller controls how much amperage is drawn from the battery. Johnny's point is...you don't want the battery BMS to clip amperage lower than what the controller draws to feed the motor. Keep in mind, 30 amps is only drawn in the highest power setting of the BBSHD. It is amperage that determines what power level you are set to on the display. For example, power level 2 may be around 10 amps or so and why you go slower in power level 2 versus max.
Now, consider the BBSHD with aftermarket controller can live with 4000w max. If you do the math, that around 50-70 amps depending on battery voltage. There are some very fast BBSHD's running around with 72V battery at with high amp discharge. The architecture of the BBSHD can take it. In fact, you can spend less money and buy the BBS02 and with aftermarket controller it can live with 2500W max. These motors are robust. I personally like the BBSHD with stock controller because 35-40mph is fast enough on a bicycle. If you need to go 55mph, buy a Honda Grom which is about 10 hp...but can't ride it on bike trails and you need a license for it...but suspension can take the bumps which is key.
@@lukewalker1051 Luke is right
@@lukewalker1051 Thank you
i'd get a 52v for the BBSHD. In my experience as long as the BMS is capable of doing CONTINUOUS 30A, it is sufficient for the stock BBSHD controller. I ride the BBSHD at 60-80% current because you get nearly the same performance and much better range, at the cost of slightly slower acceleration. Even if you tell the BBSHD to use 100% current its not typically drawing 30A continuous. It's not going to hurt to have a more capable BMS... but its unnecessary with the stock controller that only does 30A
do the larger tires hinder hill climbing? and can a bafang be hooked up to "any" internally geared rear axle ???
Larger tires do hinder hill climbing due to changing the over all gear ratio but not too much. Most IGH hubs can be used with a bafang👍
Great and informative! ..did a bbshd about 3 months ago, love it! ..changed my standard pressed steel 46t sprocket for a lekkie 42t sprocket for better chain line, certainly recommend that you fit a gear sensor with this much power, also fitted an extra strong gmc ebike dedicated chain, although I would use the original as a spare, ..fingers crossed it'll give good service! I've fitted a 52v 17.5ah battery with a spare for longer trips, if you do get a spare battery be careful to get the same connectors so you just swap the battery out of the same backing plate as I did, ..another bike I've done is front hub 500w bafang on a hybrid bike, but would say use hydraulic brakes when you can as I sent off for kit with brake levers. Should have used brake sensors with original hydraulic brakes! Being my first build I used the ones supplied ie cable brakes onto mechanical disc, Certainly not got the stopping power of my bbshd build with brake sensors, hopefully this will help others doing a similar build out there.
What's your range?
I never see you do a rear drive. I have a 29" tire specialized rock hopper sport.
Awesome build. I'm just getting into this hobby. Could you give an estimate us on how much these bike build costs?
BBS02 kit starts at 450$ and BBSHD kits start at 650$. A 52v 20Ah triangle battery is about 400$. Shift sensor is about 30$ usd. Not sure about Johnny's labor cost but a build can be done in a day
That’s a great looking bike. Not fond of hard tails though I would ride it.
I have a 36 volt battery. Do you sell a kit that could use a 36 volt battery?
Only the cyclone kit, but I don’t recommend it unless it’s for a very specific build
Is a 2003 Specialized Hardrock Sport too old to do a conversion on? It has 26" wheels and rim brakes 3 x 7 (I think) shimano altus gears
Not as long as it’s still in good working condition
@@JohnnyNerdOut cheers
I'm getting a bafang mid Drive for my bike and hopefully I should have it in a couple of weeks and I made sure it came with a battery with the conversion kit😂
Hi Jonny - I think you made this vid just for me 😂 I have a Specialized Crave 29er that is just itching for a conversion! Could you help me put together a good kit?
Hi I have the same bike ( e converted) but my wheel keeps coming off even with torque arm fitted. Anyone else had this problem with aluminium frame dropouts?
The inner lock ring is probably not tight enough
nice build but the frame has plenty of room for a huge 52v 20AH triangle battery
True, but he will be using this in traffic. It already has a heavy off road fork. A heavy battery would make it a lot less nimble. That battery should give him 30 miles range if he pedals (60-90 cadence, mid-level boost, 15mph). For urban cycling, that's really the sweet spot.
Hi Johnny, love ur channel. Can you please do a video about converting a Cargo bike? Like is hub in frontwheel(s) better, OR hub in rearwheel, OR midmotor? They uasualy have no gears and break with rear wheel by peddaling back. We use these a lot in Holland. Tnx man and keep up the good work. Greetings from Holland.
Mustapha, I put a Tongsheng TSDZ2 coaster brake version on my wife's 3 speed coaster brake cruiser. I have been. Commuting on it for nearly a year and really like it. The additional torque vs a hub drive, when climbing hills or taking off with a load, should be huge!
for a cargo bike you want a mid drive, not a hub. You want some gearing as well, even low end threaded freewheels can work. A coaster hub as you described is not a great idea for an ebike
@@EBikeBuilder_ they'll work fine where they live.