Why Electric + Acoustic Guitars Get Double Tracked (and NOT copy pasted)
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There was some confusion over stuff I said in my last video (my fault, should have explained it!) so I figured I'd try to clear things up here. I'm not used to teaching production concepts, but am very experienced teaching music and theory, so when I do touch on production I think I am not quite in tune with what the average student is aware of like I am with my regular lessons.
Thanks to the comment section though, I realized the principle of double tracking is not very well understood, so in this video I demonstrate the difference between a "fake" double tracked guitar and a real double tracked guitar. This way you can draw your own conclusions on when and where you should single track vs double track.
TAKE NOTE!
-When I double track, I OFTEN record the second part on a different amp, guitar, impulse, or pickup selection. Not always, but often. It's nice to have some differences between the L + R as you can hear in the last part of the "fake double track" which sounds pretty good and could have use in some tracks.
-While there is no "wrong" or "right", I can confidently say that you need to double track your guitars (and not copy paste them) if you want to achieve a modern rock/metal sound for rhythm parts. I've yet to encounter a vst or effect that can replicate the effect for me. I have used Vocal Doublers on acoustic guitars for a fun fake-double-track but it's not quite the same (not better-not worse-just not the same)
-Phasing is cool, that is why the Phaser effect exists. It's easier to put a phaser on a track than it is to duplicate and offset like shown. Experiment with doubled guitar tracks, each with their own phaser dialed in with its own settings!
-Anyone can double track a lead these days with studio tools and edits. I still don't like the effect that much, and it's still much easier to just slap some sort of effect on there (i'd suggest phaser or chorus)
-My rock example falls a bit flat mainly cause it's programmed drums. Beardstank will be back soon!
-You can quad track, 8 track, etc. I don't ever find a use for more than 4 on the same part.
-This video is not about guitar LAYERING. That's a whole nother topic, though I did touch on it with the electric layer
-If you're not good enough to double track your part, I think you're better off trying to make a single track work. But the goal for ANY performing musician is to be able to play accurately and on time, and nothing builds that skill faster than studio work. So grab your metronome and start tapping your foot + counting :)
Thank you to my Patreon supporters for making these videos possible!!!
00:00 Intro
00:59 Recording in Mono
01:52 "Fake" Double Tracking
05:53 Real Double Tracking
08:47 Acoustic Guitars
13:27 Why you should double track
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It is almost poetic that despite trying our hardest to perfectly replicate something, the imperfect result creates a greater effect...
Yes. It seems that with art, especially music, the beauty is in the imperfection. Which is why we still have paintings in a world with photography.
@@tomwilson2112 Then again, too much imperfection and it's going to sound like crap, so I wouldn't say the beauty is in the imperfection in and of itself. The beauty is in the authenticity. It's like hearing a good singer without autotune. Their pitch is never going to be 100% perfect, but it comes close enough, and you appreciate it, in part, for being real. If a singer is just way off key, you probably wouldn't say the beauty is in the imperfection, because that's just bad singing. Talent and authenticity is always a good combination.
That's why many live performances are so amazing.. you get kind of a different result every time.
What a lovely observation.
It doesn't work because of "imperfections". Well, not the way people are using the word. It's not "imperfect", it's 100% different. Even if a machine plays both tracks, there will never be a single audible moment where both tracks are the same. No matter how it's played, you can't really say "imperfections", because it's ALL imperfect, from start to finish. There's never a single moment where the exact same thing is happening in both performances, and there never can be, because there are infinite possible variations in an analogue sound source like a vibrating string.
The "imperfections" thing get's thrown around too much, like people are using it to lay the groundwork for a belief that sucking at an instrument is a good thing
This video helped me realize I have my speakers on the opposite of what they need to be...
And just like that some water was spay
@@JJames666male OK, Carrie Bradshaw
@@ericajohnson7535 who?
same lol i was looking for this comment
lol
Randy's double tracked solo in crazy train has actual different notes at some points. It's amazing.
Ahhh, thats why it always sounds off when Im playing along
Tony Iommi is the master of double tracking solos- usually doubles but sometimes harmonising
No it is just normal
Amazing till you want to play it on guitar
@@ianhale4466 All you wanted to do was learn your favorite song, now you're an amateur audio engineer.
I learned to do this with vocals some years back. I didn't like the first recording so I tried it again on a different track. When I played it back I had forgotten to turn the first copy off. I liked what I heard and have been doing it ever since.
“Do not listen to it over cell phone speakers” so this is how it feels to be a criminal
If you have a sony smartphone ...
The new iPhones have stereo speakers.
Me listening on my phone that has stereo front facing speakers
@@iamcrog134 every phone does nowadays. Im not a Sony user but I know they're the best. iphone speakers are kinda bad
You're right Skyfire....
Worked at a studio for many years in the early days and just assumed I could copy, paste, and nudge a few milliseconds and no one would be the wiser about my laziness. Well, that backfired in my face, just like every time I tried to use a shortcut. Lesson learned.
Ah yes. Phasing
What happened? You got fired and started a TH-cam channel?
Didn’t you even detuned them ?
Keen to hear how it backfired. We could all learn from that
It works for Acoustic guitars, at least for me. No phasing issues. But for overdriven guitars, yeah, it doesn't work.
Hard-panned multi-take acoustic chords can also benefit from having different voicings or inversions.
I quintuple-tracked acoustic guitars for a track and used five different capo positions for every track. Nashville tuning is also cool for that.
I honestly can’t believe that this level of instruction and advice is free. Very helpful!
I learned about this from an interview with a musician in a magazine back in the late 90s/early 2000s. Don't remember the musician or the magazine, but that's where I learned it.
I also learned another tip from an interview with a musician, but I haven't tried it myself...but he was saying that in the studio he would use a smaller combo amp cranked up a little louder, instead of a bigger half stack or something. Said it gave him a "crunchier" tone or something.
I've used both, but never thought to do a comparison. Might have to try that....
Maybe stupid question, is this kind of effect why Full Orchestras sound so great? Because there are like 5 of the same instrument playing slightly imperfectly together?
well put! even the materials (wood, strings, etc.) are different from instrument to instrument
Yep
@@10HW = different overtones
I believe orchestras are so large because they needed the total volume from multiple (same) instruments to fill the large halls.
The natural chorusing from multiple same instruments is a bonus.
IMHO.....
Not a stupid, but loaded question because 20 live violins in a section do not sound like 20 takes of one violinist. I have tried x-tupple takes including different brands of instrument plus various mics and distances and angles etc. only to discover whopping sounds, but not anywhere near a simulation of a live section. - it is however fun and creative as hell
This also makes you realise why tone chasing occurs. You hear the album and when you play along your tone is never quite as punchy... Now I know why
See also: AC/DC
Not to mention mixing and mastering processes! Ever heard the raw samples of Gun 'n' Roses "Appetite for Destruction" sounds nothing like the final product. Ever heard a song on TH-cam using the raw samples of an amp sim and then heard the produced mix late in the video, sounds nothing like those raw samples. You can't really chase the final tone because that where the magic occurs. You can nail the raw samples if you can find them quite easily, but, you can't cant get *that* final tone without knowing how the producer mixed the album and then the mastering process usually someone else (and making everything louder apparently) and the processes he used. For instance one guitarist in the studio blended four different amps together to get his *sound* try chasing that tone.
@@kbadr Did they double track? They sound just as good live and have the same tone in my opinion. I thought it was just the marshall, volume all the way up, and the way angus and Malcolm hit the strings so hard?
@@dawghousetv Yes. Everyone double tracks in the professional world. I can't believe you people don't know this.
No not everyone double tracks for every guitar part .
“ I can’t believe you don’t know this”
^
Remember y'all, Stereo isn't just "left and right channels", it's also the space between you and the speakers -- how a sound in the right channel will bounce off a wall and you'll feel it behind you. Learning about that can open the door to so many sound possibilities. Bowie's vocal on ""Heroes"" is an easy example, look up how that was recorded.
Another trick for recording an acoustic guitar is placing a mic by the headstock. Up there you really get a nice bright tone. You can also double it with a mic that picks up the strumming on an electric guitar that isn’t amped. You’ll mostly hear the pick scrapes against the strings but that works well in the mix
this is an awesome tip, thank you :)
@thestumblingchef3146• maybe this guy has never heard of a wet and dry simultaneous recording signal path.
You can always add and control your different effects later.
@@madmaximilian5783 yeah but that’s not doubling the track. The point is that the two tracks are slightly out of sync
Yes, it becomes a secondry sound behind the main guitar, perfectly locked into it. I did this with my electric. I mic up the amp and was very close to the mic which piked the strumming. Also recorded on two separate computers and joined them together. From what I can remember, one pc recorded at a significant time difference to the other. Wouldn't mind trying that again to see what happens
I was like "oh okay, so he's just gonna talk about why mono sucks and then compare it to stereo for 15 mins", but as always: You went the extra bloody mile to explain everything and explore a little further! Really great video!
glad you said this cause I felt like this video could have gone on for 30 minutes longer, wasn't sure if I covered too much or too little. Still it will need a part II i think!
@@SignalsMusicStudio I thought it was perfect, more than enough to not be generic but also not exhausting or boring if some one is just getting into the concept. I feel like almost all of your videos are like that, really great work!
A part two would be really cool indeed! There's just so much more stuff you can do. Like quad tracking, blending different amps, speakers and mics or also just doing the same riff/lick/whatever but differently, like some one else in the comments already suggested; different voicings etc.
Enjoy the rest of the week!
So should all the guitar parts be panned 100% to the left and right?
@@dawghousetv no, it depends on where you want the guitar within the stereo image. sometimes its nice to automate the panning to make it move aswell.
Me watching this video while only having my left earbud working 🤡
F
hahahaha!
F
Me watching this video putting it into sharp contrast how much hearing loss I've had in my right ear from years of standing stage left near the drums. Enough that I'm on my insurance portal looking for an ENT right now. :(
@@igmusicandflying I honestly don't get how so many people experience temporary hearing loss/tinnitus (you are extremely unlucky if you get significant permanent damage from one concert or performance where it was too loud), then decide to NOT bring ear plugs the next hundred times... Had my ears blasted as a teenager once, experienced tinnitus for about a week, never not worn ear plugs ever since while either playing or watching a concert.
James Hetfield's precision is always on another level. In most of the songs, he doubles his guitar but the precision is always there.
In the album And Justice For All, the rythm guitar section mostly consists of 6 guitar tracks, panned out evenly.
He records at least 4, I think Battery had like 6, sad but true is like 8 lol
He's different.
Hetfield IS Metallica!
I think he recorded 8 tracks for One. He's on a different level
This is also partially why a lot of metal bands will have two guitarists with different amplifiers (the other major part being personal preference). Some bands even make it a fairly extreme difference, too. Slipknot's guitarists, for example, use Orange and Rivera amps, which are just completely different sounds. Sometimes though, guitarists will use similar but still distinct amps, like the guys in Lamb of God running a Mesa Mark V and a Mesa Royal Atlantic.
Omg! Please do a whole course in production!! Everything you teach becomes so clear!
I would love that
Yes, me too
He did one, titled "Producing Rock in Ableton Live"
"In the Mix" is a really good production channel, more focused on electronic music, and FL Studio.
"The House of Kush" is good too, lots of general advice, not focused on any DAW, tends to be more advanced stuff as well.
Up this
I like the Tony Iommi double tracking solos, because they would split up for a bit around the climax of the solo and then sync up again and it just sounds really cool
yeah youd be listening to a kickass solo then all of sudden theres 2 other solos going on
That's not double tracking my friend that's just 2 solo's stacked on top of each other. Imo its harder to get 2 solo's to sound as perfect over each other as Iommi could.
Rusty Shackleford well the beginning would usually be the same but then they’d differ partway through
At their best, Black Sabbath songs could feel like there were 3 or 4 - 2 guitar, a bass, and drums - interlocking solos all playing off of each other at the same time. War Pigs does this really well.
@@theccarbiter
Yes, it almost felt like a duet, but not quite.
Best way to put it, is it starts as a double track then becomes a duet.
Was really blown away by the electric clean over the acoustic! That was beautiful!
I like using two mics (R L) for one take, and two mics for the second take in the opposite panning (L R), it gives you a HUGE stereo image.
I like using different guitars, overdrives and playing different parts. Even different instruments and pan that left and right. Can't get any more stereo than that.
For my double tracks I even play two completely different songs.
@@qwerty687687 Sounds like a recipe for "musician at the wrong gig". :D
@@qwerty687687 hahahaha
Just a note: click tracks have been around since forever in studio recording. We just called them "metronomes". Early studios literally used the old mechanical ones fed into the headphones of the performers, and many used visual light based metronomes. The term "click track" just didn't get popular until we musicians started using them for live performances via in ear monitor systems.
Preach!
These crazy kids and their click tracks! ;) Awesome video and such a clear explanation.
also midi in the 80's
@@chuckcrunch1 Do not speak to me of the deep magic, witch! I was there when it was written ;)
Valuable info thanks! I am a drummer who adopted/learned to use and create click tracks over the past 2 yrs(after 20 yrs sans click/accurate tempos), and explaining to my bandmates how and why a click is not an "extra" thing, but a fundamental, was an interesting/challenging endeavor depending on who I was speaking to. I was curious on how far back the usage goes, aside from picturing a metronome quietly clicking on top of a piano. Thanks!
Dimebag Darrell doubled all his leads. Always. He was really, really, really good though. He always stated that the differences in the two tracks are what gave his solos their full sound on his albums.
Dimebag's solos always sounded so rich and gravelly because of the very well doubled guitars. I wanna know how he did that live, though. Was it two amps with subtly delayed?
@@MrNeosantana He used an MXR Flanger/Doubler
EVH used a wet/dry/wey setup based on Eventide
Electrum VST by muramasa has a fantastic doubler, check it out
His tracks always sounded great, like Pantera had two guitarists. Sounded sick!
@@MrNeosantana I’m not sure about Dimebag’s situation but a lot of guitarists have they’re whole set tracked and the guitar tech would work effects pedals and hit solo’s or rhythm recordings in live. So the guitar tech had to keep time in real time. Talk about pressure.
@@lil.dogbyte Recently it was Scott Ian working the whammy for Zakk Wylde during one of the Pantera reunion shows. He nailed it.
I’m a drummer but learned so much from this!
Also, you have an amazing speaking voice. Your articulation is immaculate and your voice is very relaxing.
9:11 so glad you brought that up. I put out a kind of lo-fi, folky EP just last year and I really struggled with deciding whether or not to double track the guitars. Ultimately it just didn't feel right for what I was trying to do so I ended up just sticking with the mono method but I still second guessed myself quite a bit afterwards. All in all this video was super insightful and definitely helped put my mind at peace about that ep. Thank you for your service!
In fact I learnt to keep things mono and clean if a player or singer can't double o triple track professionally.
If multiple takes are done really well, the stereo effect Is wonderful. Otherwise keep it simple, stick to mono
A free TH-cam video like this has no business being this insanely good.
Black Sabbaths first album has buzz notes or "bad notes" that actually give a ton of character to the music and makes it seem real
At some points I think he just played completely different solos in the same key on different tracks. Really cool.
@@TangoNevada Tony Iommi himself said he never could play a solo or riff exactly the same twice
@@lalo4642 I agree with that 100%, I'm the same way when I play. What I was referring to is on certain songs (can't recall of the top of my head which ones, probably many, maybe Iron Man, maybe War pigs) there are two lead guitar Tracks playing a solo at the same time in the same key by the same guy, one panned left and one panned right. So there is no way any one person could play it live ( I know, Because I tried while playing live - I used a delay to try to compensate but it's not the same). It sounds super cool with headphones. And some extra curricular substances and the proper setting.
@@TangoNevada Yeah, I know what you mean. That double solo technique has always been so cool, the one in Killing Yourself to Live is one of my fav ones.
I don't know if it's related of what I stated before though.
I love seeing all of these techniques side by side and how much quality improvement we can get from each technique you've rolled out!
Long story short, when I was 15 years old, I was in a band and I decided to invest my money and time to record our own material and for me it was I guess a natural instinct to just record left and right separately, yes I have tried to copy paste but the very first seconds of those takes put together it felt wrong, so I unconsciously tried recording each left and right as their own take and it gave it that wideness. No experience or what so ever, just had a friend who suggested me to get an audio interface and do my own thing.
Today I love to use a doubled effect in the mix (Mimiq Mini Doubler), but its really slightly noticeable but gives it that extra cherry on the top, heavy warm feeling to the mix.
Great video, big thank you!
Appetite for Destruction’s left/right guitars are noticeable, gives the album its character!
But the two guitarists aren't playing the same thing just like Aerosmith! So how does that help it's character? Jake said you have to play the exact same thing as closely as possible and these bands aren't doing that!?!
@@vaughanmacegan4012 They aren't playing the same thing, sure, but what they are both playing compliments the other perfectly. It's not like Slash hits a note and Izzy is fucking around out of key lol.
@@vaughanmacegan4012 But he also said that are the litte differences between the 2 takes thats turn double tracking real nice
Nirvana’s Nevermind is the best example of how to perfectly layer rhythm guitar tracks imo. Butch Vig is a legend
YESSS, Nevermind is the perfect example of a huge wall of sound with guitars. And of course, Andy Wallace also gave it some life ;)
It's crazy, it has so many guitars we can't even hear but we do feel
Metallicas guitars too!! Their guitars always were huge.
Bob Rock was a master too.
Even better example is Toxicity album by System Of A Down, thats like really wall of guitars. Mixed also by Andy Wallace.
Your videos are incredibly instructive but also entertaining. I never get bored watching. Things are presented in such a fresh and direct way ... awesome!
Thank you for walking through ideas with actual audio examples. The difference between different approaches was bigger than I would have imagined.
This is an example of something that sounds stupidly obvious once an important but basic idea has been explained. In this case, its stereo HEARING, something we arent necessarily thinking about when focusing on whats coming out of the speakers and not the thing that is receiving the stimulus. Great video as usual.
"we hear in stereo. the different signals we receive in each ear, and the timing differences between them, create a subjective spatial phenomenon, which helps us determine things like space, size, location, movement, etc." - a brief approximation of my rant on stereo hearing that mysteriously got lost when making this video
@@SignalsMusicStudio the stereo speakers did it. They're afraid they'll be out of a job when you reveal the truth
Obligatory Internet pedantry: "stereo" doesn't mean "two" in the way "mono" means "one". That prefix would be "duo". "Stereo" means "solid, three-dimensional". Which is also an apt meaning for the improved sound from double tracking, and of course that 3D imaging was the reason the word was used to describe stereo audio equipment in the first place.
(So what's the counterpart to stereo, I hear none of you cry? Probably the Greek prefix would be something like "platy" (flat) or better yet "lepto" (flat and thin, like a ribbon).)
We now return you to Jake so you can learn something useful about music rather than trivia about linguistics.
I actually did a rant on stereo hearing in this vid and the footage somehow got lost ? regardless, good rant
Maybe we can bring that terminology into the lingo... Leptophonics
As long as we’re being pedantic here, _mono-_ is of Greek derivation, while _duo-_ is of Latin origin. The equivalent Greek-derived prefix would be _di-._
And doing this same thing with vocals also works like a charm. You can put them one quieter than the other and panned center if you want to leave your main vocal centered as most people do :)
Thanks for this! I am just a hobby guitarist who occasionally records via an interface. Could never get a strong sound. These tips have made the whole experience way more fun! Much appreciated.
This made me listen to every single song I've know for years and years with a whole new auditory perspective. The double tracks were always there, and I never noticed them. What a lesson!
Tip: If you've already tracked all the parts and can't re-record anything, you can often get a double-track by combining takes from multiple verses and choruses if the playing is the same. So verse 1 is the guitar from verse 1 left and the guitar from verse 2 right. And vice versa for the second verse. That can get you double tracking with just copy/paste! It doesn't always work of course since the parts may be too different between sections, or maybe there is an extended post chorus that only happens once or something. But it can save you in some situations.
(This also works well with vocals in a chorus!)
This makes me feel really good, cause I'd kinda figured out a lot (but critically not all) of this by myself and via general observation of engineers without ever being taught explicitly what was going on and why. I made real double tracks of a lot of the parts for my cross-genre hiphop project but decided to cut out a lot of the attempts of double tracking on my blues album, because the big sound didn't sound right. Thanks heaps again for how amazingly clear all your videos are
Watching this video helped confirm some things I was doing and gave me ideas for things I haven't done yet. The acoustic guitar technique is something that's so simple and yet something I hadn't considered. I actually intend to throw in the signal from the pickup in my acoustic as well.
Interestingly, for my first two albums, I recorded 3 different amps with 4 different mics, layered and adjusted as needed, and did the same for both guitars. For the third album I'm working on, I have four mics on two amps, so I'm using a mic on each amp for one take, the other mics for the second take, and then mixing them as needed. It's made these latest songs sound so much better...bigger, but not necessarily louder. I've even tried it with record direct like you did with this video and it's made a world of difference.
Thanks for taking the time to make this. It was quite educational!
Wow. At 30ms, it felt like the music was around me. When centered, it felt like it was in the center of my brain.
This is some music production school stuff, i dont think anyone explains things like this. Awesome video man, lots of information, thanks so much.
In the documentary "ZZ Top: That Little Ole Band from Texas" there is a story about the producer not wanting them record anything that they couldn't play live. But they couldn't get the sound they wanted. The engineer knew how to get the sound they wanted, so they sent the producer out to get fried chicken from a certain place nowhere near the studio. The engineer had Billy Gibbons record his part once but told him to not make it too complicated. Then he told him to pull on his strings so the guitar was slightly detuned. They then recorded the same part again and nailed the sound. The producer got back and after griping about how far he had to go to get chicken heard the sound and said that was it.
they should have called the sound double chickened
I've been using Cypress TT-15 panning L & R but changing the "EQ/compression settings, etc." so they sound different. But I suppose they're still the same thing. I know Gojira in the most recent album(s) have been using 2 mics per guitar for a total of 4 guitar tracks BUT they are using 2 guitars effectively playing the same thing. So 4 "slightly" different sounds from 2 different guitar(s)/and more importantly guitarists. I'm going to try to recording with the Cypress TT-15 (L or whatever), then pull on my strings and then playing with my Pignose through an SM58 on the other side and see what happens. Thank you for the story!
just watched that doc last week, spot on about everything but i believe it was BBQ ribs😄
That’s a cool story!
Probably one of the best and easily understandable music production tutorials/explanations I have stumbled across. Well done and thank you.
One other technique that I use often for acoustic guitars: Record two channels, one using an acoustic pickup, the other using a microphone. You get two copies of the same performance, recorded differently, but very close. Pan them hard L&R, and you get a nice wide result, leaving room for vocals, bass, etc. in the center of the mix, without the "room ambience" effect you get from using stereo microphones.
Interesting, I like it. When recording electric guitar, sometimes I like to split the signal immediately out of the guitar, and send one line into a hardware guitar effects processor with some custom effects, delay, etc. The other line goes into my audio interface directly, recorded dry. Then, I use software effects (usually SoundToys) and add similar (or sometimes very different) effects and delay to the dry track and then split the two tracks side to side. Maybe tweak one or both tracks with a different reverbs, EQ, etc. This way, I can get some nice-sounding stereo electric guitars with just the one performance.
doing the same here! the acoustic pickup feels more punchy and stingy while the microphone add more room and darker tones. a great mixture
Every time the guitar loop starts I keep waiting for Bruce Dickenson so start screaming _"Two! Minutes! To Miiiiiiidnight!"_
Thank goodness I’m not the only one haha
I keep hearing Metallica - Mercyful Fate!
Really interesting info but the editing is top tier. Loved the acoustic fading from right & meeting in the center before it fades to the left
Amazing demonstration. I've wondered about this for a long time, and it was mindblowing to see the difference between the takes.
Listen to Yngwie Malmsteen's Black Star with headphones. Once panned hard right, once panned hard left, and once centered. Then realize there are two guitars perfectly harmonized a minor 3rd apart with blistering notes whizzing past your eardrums with a magnificence that only a god could create. Now imagine doing that at 19 years old.
I could only have done that at 19 years old... that part isn’t exactly surprising 😂
@@JamieClark Lol.
So just copy n paste with a 20 ms offset
@@BOBANDVEG You'd still need a harmonizer. The Eventide was still a couple years away at that time.
@@EarthAltar true words
A note on the Haas Effect thing is that the sound will still cancel when not using headphones, since only headphones prevent the two signals from physically interacting.
Gonna have to research this myself. 40 ms should be plenty of time to change to phase. Edit: 40ms is in the MHz range, I'm going to assume You're correct. Lol
bro... you're my new fav YT dude!! you a pleasure to watch and listen to. super thorough.
Thank you to mention the Haas Effect. To me exceeding the 40 ms limit sounds like one core ingredient of the sound of the Black Rainbows.
One record where the double tracking is really noticeable is Seether’s Karma and Effect. The two guitar tones in each speaker are pretty different, and as far as I know, it isn’t triple tracked unless there’s also a lead playing.
I also didn’t know about the dual mic recording with acoustics! It’s something I’ve noticed, but it just sounded like two guitars playing at once, even in songs where I’m sure it’s only one guitar.
It's even easier to hear the double tracks there if you listen on earbuds, but just one at a time. Another option is to drag the mp3/wav into your DAW or even audacity, and just pan it left and right to hear the differences.
Paul Davids has a video on recording acoustic guitar. He uses two mics, but then he also pans the reverb of the two recordings to be opposite of their speaker. So the reverb from the left signal goes to the right speaker and vice versa. It's really quite interesting!
Gojira has this as well! Left is usually distorted guitar and right is a more crunchy guitar, which creates a huuuge sound
The only reason I knew about dual mics for acoustic was because I would see the kits sold at music stores, and they always came with two mics
@TheNerdyGinger Wow! That one was literally one of my favorite albums as I was growing up. Guitar tones on that album are brutal, especially the song named "Given." There was always something about rhythm guitars in that song. Later on, I figured out that they actually had a 6-string guitar in Drop B, and then they double-tracked it with a 7-string in standard tuning with some parts played slightly different and on different amp settings (I believe Shaun uses various Mesa Rectifiers for recordings as well)
I worked with a producer who took my bassline from the first verse and copied and pasted it on all 3 verses. When I asked what are you doing he said, "I'm doing my job, it's called producing".
Not wanting to be difficult, I explained that the 2nd verse is a bit more busy than the 1st verse, and the 3rd verse is a bit busier than the 2nd verse. And what about the choruses?
He said, "I record the verse, bridge, and chorus once, then I copy and paste. I was scratching my head and said, "But the bass gets busier in the last chorus and there are some counter melodies going on". Copying and pasting will not work here.
We just ended up shelving the project with him when he got into an argument with our singer who wanted to trouble track his vocals.
He suggested to sing it once, then he would just copy and paste the vocal. After one take our singer said that sounds robotic. Then he wanted to use some sort of harmonizer to save time where the harmonies should have been.
Naturally, we wanted to sing them and not have them generated through technology. We would have nailed them quickly because we were very well rehearsed.
In the end we finally said, we're just going to scrap this for now. We then found another producer at another studio and he got what we were trying to do and helped facilitate us.
For a supposed professional, that first producer (who's name I will withhold) was an egomaniac. When we decided to scrap the session, he started pointing to 8x10 photos he had hanging on the wall of all the recording artists he had worked with. Sorry, but I'm still not impressed. I don't care how many famous artists he produced.
Honestly, that seems like how a lot of people want to do it as just a copy/paste way to do short looped sections.
If it's moving around "in the box" synths or vocal ad libs, definitely go for it.
Having a first verse start sparse and have the second verse become busier? No way.
Repeat the same 8 bar drum beat with the SAME EXACT fill? Absolutely not.
Being able to play parts well and record multiple takes quickly will make the process WAY easier than "let's record each section once."
That's why I see q lot of amateur producers looking to "improve their transitions between sections" because all of their copied loops make everything "jumpy."
@@billymcguiremusic What I meant about the verses getting busier might have been misunderstood. I wasn't over playing.
I guess what I'm saying is each verse had different nuances on the bass that made them different from each other.
But as the singer goes for it in the third verse and chorus, then the bass is a bit busier because it's playing a counter melody to the vocal in some spots.
But a bass playing busier as the song goes along is not unheard of. A good example is Statesboro Blues by the Allman Brothers.
Berry Oakley gets progressively notier every 12 bars. And he eventually gets very busy.
They sound terrible to work with and as such you probably shouldn't withhold their name, the odds are low that anyone relevant will actually read comments like these but people who might work with them in the future should still know to avoid them in advance.
@@mtp4430 oh, well that's totally understandable. That first producer clearly isnt versed with music, then. Countermleodies make a HIGE difference
"Second verse! Same as the first! Little bit louder, and a little bit worse!"
I LOVE YOUR RECORDING AND HOME STUDIO TIPS! I hope you do more videos like this!
I believe that another example of why it's important to double track is by listening to anything the Foo Fighters have done. Since their inception, they have recorded almost everything on tape and some songs like My Hero showcase incredibly well done double tracking, especially for the drums. Dave Grohl has made it a point to practice so much that he and the band nail their double tracks just about every single time. They are a great example of modern musicians putting out sonically pleasing product and doing so by great skill.
Dave should move to North Korea.
Lol this is every professional band. It's not a Foo Fighters thing.
I mean it helps when your songs are simple radio rock.
This reminds me of Mike Oldfield's original Tubular Bells where he laid down all kinds of duplicate mono tracks panned left or right. It was so messy and cutting edge that it was epically great.
Tubular Bells was such a revolutionary record for the time. Oldfield is just that one-in-a-century sort of artist. He went a step beyond virtuosity, in my opinion.
This video is worth its weight in gold, as an independent music maker working on a free daw (cakewalk), this helped me immensely.
I noticed Randy’s double tracking in a ton of songs. When a huge lead comes in there’s just a sound you can’t exactly pinpoint that makes it different. It always sounded like the guitar was ripping through the speakers or headphones. It was a sound you can only get from the double-tracking. Most popularly the Crazy Train solo. There’s a section in there where he’s actually playing two almost identical sets of notes but there’s one or two notes that are different. You can’t really pinpoint it until you pick up a tab book or try to pick it out and you can get close, but what you play won’t match up perfectly because those two or three semitone separated notes mix together almost to form a new note or Atleast a new interpretation of those notes together that would not occur by playing the two simultaneously.
Subscribed, because this seriously the best video I've seen to both explain and demonstrate the value and difference in dubs. If all your videos are like this; brotha I am in.
Listen to the VERY BEGINNING of my track "What's Comin To Ya" to hear the double-tracked guitar thing that only occurs on one side, then appears in full. Very good example of how much energy is added with bass and drums!
You are super spot on about this misguided notion of playing perfectly is 'not rock 'n' roll'. I have never understood where the notion came from.
Sounding bad and making your listeners cringe even though you are 'feeling the music' is not rock 'n' roll - all the great rock and metal bands such as Megadeth, Metallica, The Beatles, etc sounded great and did not speed up or slow down too much in tempo when recording. Sure there might be a few imperfections here and there, but they still sound incredible relative to the entire mix, and that is NOT the same as not being able to play in time and giving a sloppy performance altogether. Great video Jake!
it's a combination of hero worship and dunning-kreuger effect IMO. I also think people want any excuse they can find to not work hard. But mostly, people romanticize rock stars as superhuman gods who just naturally could exude music without "working" or "learning". this then gives them a lifelong excuse to fail and underachieve and not even try- because they're not "magical" like their gods!
Exactly! It makes it so hard when people play very sloppily and say they're "rock." If I'm playing a song, I'll have a few measure of click so I start at the right time, but can recreate rather easily. A good player can keep a steady pulse with AND without a metronome
@@SignalsMusicStudio BOOM, now there's a truth-bomb if you ever need one!
It makes it even funnier if they’re using the bands you mentioned as examples of “feeling” the music, because all three groups were notoriously rabid perfectionists, especially when it came down to the recording of the songs themselves!
@@BirdmanDeuce26 partly why they were so good.
Imagine of every song on every album was done in one take. Completely different sounds.
You have confirmed many things I learned on my own. I've used all these techniques and more. One technique I use a lot that didn't mention is vaguely similar to when you have the dual SM57's at two different spots recording one acoustic. First, I always use two mics recording acoustic or electric. But, unconventionally, I rarely use a matched mic. In terms of fairly affordable mics, I may take an SM57 (I love this mic and what an insane value at under $100) and a Rode NT5 pencil condenser. For an electric cab, I'll put the SM57 off center but close mic-ed. Then I'll take the Rode, which is too sensitive to stuck in the cab's face, and set it back a foot or two with a slightly different angle aimed at slightly different part of speaker cone. On top of this I typically have a large diaphragm condensor mic handling "room" sound and sometimes I DI using a an ABY switch. Each mic (even the DI) does through a voltage starved home studio 12AX7 pre (using different but Russian or comparable valves such as Genelex Gold Lion or Mullard, Tung-Sol, or JJ. The main amp has 12AX7 pres and KT88 power. This is crazy overkill to have 4 channels for one guitar part, but I have learned a lot doing this. Before I explain, let me tell you my vocal and acoustic guitar micing ritual. I'll use the SM57 close mic-ed pointed to about the 12th fret, then slightly farther back the NT5 point more towards the bridge. These two go through the pres with 12AX7s and I carefully adjust the gain between the pres and audio interface to get about the same signal level. For vocals, I do the same thing but with one mic slightly left and the other slightly right both pointing inwards towards the appropriate side of my mouth. Again I take care to keep over levels near parity. When doing acoustic or vocal I almost always hard pan each mic 100% to the left and other to the right. I will typically use slight differences in the reverb, chorus or EQ to accentuate the differences. I use an effects loop they brings the effects back towards center channel. Even for a simple podcast this creates a more live sound and makes it slightly more compelling to listen to. Now back to the electrics. We are blessed to live in the age of good, semi-pro home studio gear and the luxury of using four inputs on one guitar. Here I don't have a "always" solution, but I may pan the close mics left or right, but other times I only slightly pan so the sound is still mostly centered. I then take the two close mics and usually mix the SM57 loudest since it always records my Celestions with vintage tone whether clean, dirty, or filthy. The Rode NT5 isn't so great for guitar cans but has an ethereal sound. Sometimes I use it's output almost entirely to the effects bus and mute the dry signal. The room mic adds a live sound that I typically leave in the mix at 40% or so the output of the SM57. The direct in through the 12AX7 is often the most interesting option. It goes through the same pedal effects but bypasses the Blackstar Studio 10 KT88 or other low wattage all tube amp. Sometimes I will split the ABY right after the tuner so I get pure unsullied tone. How I mix that in varies from not at all, to heavy send to the busses, or mixed down the center to support the SM57. This is a lot of work and use for my more experimental projects. My goto everyday setup is two mics on the cab (sometimes an SM57 and it's cousin SM58 or the Rode NT5). I find the SM57 is always delicious clean or crunchy. I have a second SM57 on order as well as an sE ribbon mic. Often it's a $220 Squier Affinity Tele as the source (with upgrades), or a custom Fender Tele HH. Honestly I like the Squier sound through the Blackstar best. The KT88 and Affinity Tele were both pandemic purchases ($219 for Tele plus setup, $399 for Blackstar, all from Sweetwater) Added pedals and mics and purchased Logic Pro X and a new MacBook Pro 8-core i9 w/64GB RAM and 2GB SSD. I also have an Apple silicon MacBook Air M1 that I can use for acoustic when the sound of the fans of the big Mac are unacceptable. Excluding the price of the computers, Logic Pro X, and the HS8 monitors, I spent about $2000 to create a really fun guitar and synth recording room. The key thing that I do that is different from your suggestions is using mics with slightly different attributes and pan then extreme right and left (for vocals and acoustic) and I love the effect. I test listening back on Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Sony MDR 7506, Apple AirPods, HS8 studio monitors, and Klipsch computer THX speakers. I typically love the DT770 Pro the most, the HS8 next, Sony and so on. Fun topic. New subscriber!
Wow I learned so much from you and I have been a producer for 3 years I have just subscribed and look forward to more of you examples , you present yourself so well way above most of the "how to record" channels thank you
Great video, as usual. Another cool trick for chord parts is to record one side in standard tuning, and the other side in an open tuning or with a capo, so you’re playing the same chords but with slightly different voicing. Thanks, Jake!
this does sound fantastic- I'd call it a layer, not neccessarily a double track. one day i'll do a vid on all my fav ways to layer guitars in the studio
@@SignalsMusicStudio yes please :)
I like to double track L/R and then do a 3rd part with a capo or alternate tuning panned center and lower in the mix. Similar to Jake's addition of the electric layer.
I've also tried layers with 5 or so different capos, but honestly there was very little gain after 2 or 3. A high capo (like 7th fret) can give a nice 12 string sound.
@@SignalsMusicStudio I think that would be a great video topic. Looking forward to it. Thanks!
This should be required viewing for any guitarist that aspires to record. Great video!
That was a really nice clear video. I don't think I've ever stumbled across your channel before but this definitely merits a subscription.
My only suggestion would be that when A/B-ing between different techniques, just go straight from one to the other without any break so it's easier to tell the difference.
This video is excellent. Great tutorial, and done in a very articulate and thoughtful way with clear, understandable supporting images. Kudos and thanks! Learned a bunch. Subscribed.
I was waiting and hoping you would mention Randy double and triple tracking his solos lol. It’s honestly kinda insane that he could and would do it regularly.
Jake talks in such a relaxed and articulate way. I wish I could talk like that.
Just double-take your voice
This video helped me so much and told me something I really didn't know before - much, much appreciated!
You are truly doing gods work. If you have a guitar and a DAW and aren’t double tracking, what are you even doing.
check the video description! Lots of extra things clarified that might answer questions you have after watching this
I think it also would have been helpful to discuss dual mics on a single amplifier cone. That’s a good technique for having a single rhythm guitar take up the wide stereo image and the leads can be more center-focused. It’s also good for double tracking as well because you essentially have 8x as many combinations of tone and panning for your rhythm guitars
Great video, Jake!
thank you!
I wish Jake was around to make this video 10 years ago when I was first getting into digital music lol, it took me years to figure a lot of this stuff out
Glad that Aimee is listening to Jake’s videos. I would love it if he started to be asked to be doing more collabs with you, Adam, David, Tantacrul and all the other music TH-camrs. His teaching is amazingly clear and really helpful, and this video is another example of that.
Thanks its what im here for
@@jakevanslooten9026 :D
I knew all of this, but this was the best presentation & demonstration of it all that I’ve ever seen. Thanks!
Amazing video, thanks for the illustrations and clear exposition, hope to see more of those. One thing though: When comparing different options, it could be cool to stay at the same timepoint in the showcased sample (rather than restarting from scratch). That would make the difference easier to spot, I think.
I almost spaced out till the 7:00 min mark when you actually played a double track. Man what a difference !!
Just want to say that I love your videos. I haven't made rock or metal music in years but the information you give is really good and applies to a lot of production types.
Keep it up, lad.
Nicely done!! Your theory videos are great too! I love that you hit on engineering as well as playing.
this is the 2nd video I watch and I'm already in love with the content. you rock
I love this guy. Iv learned so much from you over the years Jake. . You take really complex and difficult music laws and principles, and dumb them down for people like me. Thanks for all your work brother 🙏🏻 Gr8ful I am.
1:12 I was waiting for a Ronnie Van Zant one liner like "excuuuuuse me" and the drums to drop.
I was expecting the same from David Lee Roth!
Dude true. Rip Ronnie and Steve + Casey Gaines.
I am not a music producer, not a band member, not an instrument player, not a sound engineer, but i found this video super interesting and super cool. Thx
That phasing trick was something new I learned today and I’ve been recording my own bands for 25 years
Home Depot needs to use this track for their commercials.
Where doers get things done.
That's funnier than it really should be.
I am giggling so hard
And call it "Arm and a Leg" in honor of current lumber prices.
Very interesting! I could probably never tell the difference before. It's all quite news to me! Thank you for the information
I see you all the time at Rudy's channel haha
@@anand8258 yep. That's me Haha
Great explanation. I've instinctively always done this, but this was a bit deeper of a dive. Thanks!
i appreciate that you explore the parameters and show us the difference instead of just talking about it ❤
I've only played around with this on my simple 4-track, but it totally works, I love how the imperfection is actually desirable.
You've played around with this, huh? This is the way it's done in the professional world, so it's good that you approve.
This is a musical channel with major substance!!!🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
I didn't fully realize this technique until after my band recorded our cd, to this day its my one looming regret on that album. A note for note double tracking of both guitars would have made the whole cd go from sounding good to sounding great.
Dude your videos and knowledge is utterly incredible. I mean this next bit with the greatest of respect and admiration... you look like your 18, but your knowledge and wisdom is like your 100.
Keep up the fantastic work. You have a great gift as a teacher, and am grateful you're happy to share your knowledge.
Because it actually sounds like 2 players
Thanks for liking comment you helped me alot with music theory and songwriting thank you.
This is why Nirvana's Nevermind guitars sound so great.
That makes sense. It never sounded quite right to me when I tried to play Smells like Teen Spirit. I'm sure most was my skill level, but the sound didn't sound right, either. That song is both an easy song, and an incredibly hard song to play. For me, at least. Cheers to ya.
@@davespringer777 He mentioned a whole album and you’re talking about one specific song.
@@hellodumplings8564 ah, ty. Deleted most of my comment to rewrite. Didn't notice it deleted the song name. I understand that made no sense without it. I fixed it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
@@davespringer777 lol, no problem bro
Yeah, Butch Vig, the producer on that album, said Kurt Cobain was TOTALLY against overdubbing guitars. Since Cobain was a John Lennon nut, Vig said he had to constantly say, “come on, man, John Lennon did it.” Other times Vig said he had to trick Cobain into doing overdubs by lying and saying that the first take had some issues so they needed to go again. Needless to say, those lies and Lennon references made a masterpiece.
Thank you for sharing! This is exactly what i needed to learn to make my guitar parts sound better in a mix.
I learned so much from your video. Well-spoken and explained, thank you!
I was wondering. Thanks for the follow-up.
Thanks for this great video!
_"You can quad track, 8 track, etc. I don't ever find a use for more than 4 on the same part."_
Symphonic orchestra often have tens of musicians playing the same partition at same time.
Of course, it's also for sound power (as they don't amplify), but I would say that it gives that musical richness and fullness that is achieved by multitracking in studio.
youre taking one awesome moment and time and going over it with another awesome one.
You're very good at explaining this stuff. I could follow everything. Great job.