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6mm ARC - Still just getting started
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ส.ค. 2024
- Testing continues with 6mm ARC.
Looking for more velocity with the 108gr ELD-M using CFE 223, and trying the 90gr and 100gr Sierra Game Changers with IMR 8208 XBR.
► / johnnysreloadingbench
► / johnnysreloadingbench
► / reloading
► / discord
00:00:00 Intro
00:05:00 Hornady OAL Gauge measurements
00:14:20 Load Data Discussion
00:18:35 Loading Process
00:31:36 Seating Bullets and Verifying Max OAL
00:44:26 Range test 108 ELD-M
00:57:40 Range test 90 & 100 Game Changers
01:05:12 Inspecting Fired Brass
01:07:12 Final Thoughts
After a few hours of JRB videos watched i just realised this: He is the guy (to learn from) who turns the camera off when everything is fine and turns it back on to show the problems (if any should occur). This is perhaps the essence of the channel to gather useful info from.
I like how he doesn't try to be Mr. Know-it-all, he admits when he doesn't fully know and asks us viewers if we know the answer or a better way to do it.
@@jtschwinghammer completely agree sir
I don’t always get excited about a new cartridge, but when I do it’s usually Johnny’s fault.
ROTFLMFAO
So, should I not mention the 8.6 Creedmoore?
;)
Everything Johnny does excites me...
Damn it Johnny!
@@OddBallPerformance wait what? I know 22 creed was a thing but 8.6?
I’ve been waiting impatiently for more JRB 6mm ARC vids. Let’s get an ARC series like the Grendel series!! One of these days my back ordered barrel will actually ship. Until then, this is the next best thing. Keep up the great work JRB!
Gotta love this channel. "...maybe I'll blow my face off! We're here to have fun!" Never a dull moment with a JRB video.
Really glad to see you working and sharing about all things 243ARC.
52:45 I posted this before on some of your previous videos. I call those groups "splittings". They ALWAYS happen after you go faster than the accuracy node for the load (with loads that will group and these are doing well). They are a huge AH-HAH if you see them. The 28.8 load is the lower accuracy node and the 30.0 gr was your upper accuracy node. Looks like the 30 gr load of CFE223 is the tits! Load em up, solidify your data, and then send em out to 1400 yds.
Run modified case thru grendel die to resize the base without the stem .... Size the base without touching the neck ... Would check chamber measurement to see if the shoulder would get touched
That's an excellent idea! I haven't messed with the 2nd modified case so it's not too late to try. Thanks!
Troy D came up with the same idea. If it works I'll be making my own tomorrow.
I just ordered a 6.5 Grendel upper for my ar... Can't wait to play with it! Live ur videos man
Johnny, you can put a little IMPERIAL sizing wax on the bullet to overcome that slight tightness when using that resized modified case shown in the video. Just apply to the bearing surface of the bullet.
Damn I have the same upper and my results are exactly the same. 6 ARC is a shooter.
A great light weight AR15 Deer rifle. The Hornady 80 grain are excellent on coyotes too.
Johnny..... you’re making my 2021 coyote rifle decision VERY FRIGGIN DIFFICULT with this series.... I’m anxiously awaiting your lighter weight bullet testing for the 6mm ARC.
My Proof barrel will be here in 2 days. I have dreamed about this for over 2 years. I bought a 6.5 Grendel JP enhanced bolt 2 years ago out of excitement and I am finally doing it. Thanks for the great info because it helps me to know where to start. Mountains Mullets Merica posted a video shooting 1,200 yards with a 14.5 6 arc and it’s was a faxon barrel so who knows with a good barrel what is possible.
Happy Memorial Day 2022. Went target shooting with friends today, with my brand new Grendel Hunter 22" AR-15 in 6mm ARC. After a couple of warm ups, It shot a .63", 5 round, ragged hole in my target @100yds. I am super happy with the performance of this, new to me, caliber. Keep pumping out the 6mm ARC videos, Shawn! I wanna see what you're doing with 6mm ARC!!
Saw a dead simple method of measuring max lenght.. Take a case, fired or expanded so it takes a new bullet with tiny friction, then put loctite or glue in the neck and insert the bullet, chamber it and wait. afterwards you got a perfecly seated bullet and it wont move during extraction. Case/bullet can be cleaned and re-used.
I save a case+bullet with max lenght for all bullets, its just a couple cases for future reference.
I have a Lee Classic turret press. The ram is hollow, so all the used primers fall through the center of the large diameter ram and down into the rubber tube. The primers crud never comes between the ram and the bore that it slides through, doesn't stick to the lube, etc... and can empty the tube right into the trash. I use it for all my decapping after having a brand new Hornady develop a ton of slop in just a year and a half. I cant believe Lee took a step backward and allows the primers to pop out the side of the ram before going down the tube. If I was to design a press I would definitely use a large diameter hollow ram for the primers to fall. It's the number one wear point on any press. I got a "grandpa special" RCBS II at an estate sale in brand new condition. Since then I've never deprimed a single case on it and it has not developed any movement whether at the top or bottom of the ram stroke. If I ever work in a machine shop again, I'd love to build my own beefy press using a hollow ram for the primers to fall through
For expanding the necks on modified cases I use a collet bullet puller after the expander mandrel and a bullet and just work it up and down a few times and it works nice
Hey Johnny, when you are checking for contact with the lands in your reloads, colour the projectile with a Sharpie, which will show even the lightest contact where the marker gets scratched off the projectile.
There is also a fair bit of difference between lightly touching the lands and feeling engagement with the lands.
Hey lets see some more 6 arc vids. Here i am am addict to reloading and you havent uploaded a reloading vid in a while. I know the powder flow has subsided but i know you got some!
My barrel finally arrived and I was able to put together my 6mm ARC upper last week and I’ve started to order components. I’m excited for more videos and to get playing with this cartridge myself.
Possible video idea would be to compare the lab radar and target velocity to see if the manufacturers claimed BCs are accurate because the 108 eld is a bit slower than it should be at the target by my calculations.
Lotsa good going on here. Even 100 STGK aren't a failure. 8208 is a super consistent powder. I like it in 223 & 308. Great detail & demonstration for our help.
Lever evolution is a great powder for high velocity heavier 105-108 match bullets.
I've got < 1" using Johnnys load with 105Bergers and ppVarmit @ 2500. I only had 16cases that I scrounged. RCBS standard die set with lee quicktrim 6.5 Grendle trim die(filed down 40thou and removed the champher blades). CMMG 20" with SA adj gas block. Started low and worked up. More brass on the way!
There is a difference between touching the lands and jamming the lands. With the Hornady your lightly touching. The loaded round is jamming the lands.
Great video's! I enjoyed the Valkyrie video's and the challenge's of that cartridge. I love a challenge and I'm working on that cartridge now. I have to say I much prefer the older cardboard and orange dot target a whole lot better than the new tech board. It's just nice to see the real holes made by bullets rather than a simulation.
Yea im so glad that he went with this round as I loved my 6x45 ar and I was really looking forward to seeing how far he can push it.
Great video, Johny. I’m tempted to try those tipped Sierra Bullets in my 243.
I have just purchased a six arc barrel, waiting on my receiver 99 gr. is as heavy as I would want to shoot. I have an 18 inch 7 1/2 twist. barrel. I’m thinking about just staying lite on my bullet weight. I will stay tuned for more of your load work up on your 6 ARC. 👍
Shot marker velocities are definitely worthwhile. At our club I can shoot on 10 different targets and get slightly different velocities on each one. One is 150FPS off. Having said that, it's still good to know what your down range SD/ES is. Because that's what's important. Slight variations in bullet weight/shape aren't going to show up at 11 yards where the labradar reads, but definitely show up at 500-1000 where we shoot.
Boom baby got crack (reloading)fix! Thanks for the upload Johnny. Miss the live chat because I was working! I’ll go back an watch it tonight.
On a side note, it seems everywhere I go there are 6mm bullets on the shelf and usually a good selection.
Lol “poopie doopie”
I just got some 90gr sierras for my 243. This video makes me excited to finish them up soon! Thanks!!
Oh yeah. A spicy fresh Johnny's video to brighten my Monday.
I would recommend Erik cortinas' method of setting up the FL sizing die to bump the shoulder
I would think multiple modified cases at .01 .02 and .03 shoulder bumps might be appropriate
His new video on jam minus .020 don’t chase the lands is a method I am going to try. It makes sense because the lands are always changing.
@@jeffwilson4268 same
You should resize the body and bump the shoulder back to the dimensions you plan on shooting. I use a die with a bushing and take the bushing out when I resize it so the bullets move in and out freely.
You want the shoulder bump with the modified case because you want that case to immolate your final brass your shooting so you get the exact jump on your bullets, the number will change if not. That's why people prefer making a modified case rather than buying one from Hornady. Hope all this helps you out on what your trying to accomplish.
My 6.5 Grendel was my favorite AR15 round..until this 6mm ARC came about.It is highly accurate
Just a thought, the 3 loads you tested that came in with an S.D. Below 6, ie: 5.XS.D. Retest those same powder weights and vary the seating depths.. I’d bet you find a Sweet Spot for each bullet... MHO...
I would love to see him go Erik Cortina
Full load workup one bullet and powder find the best combustion (Sd,ES)
Then verify combustion...
Then seating depth test
Then verify load!!!
I am (un)patiently waiting for small rifle primers to come in stock anywhere - would love to see a video in the future talking about alternative uses for CFE-BLK
Those Hornady sizing dies used to come with a smooth shank on the decapping rod. Seemed like you had to torque them to an ungodly number to get it to stay put. Then all of a sudden they started with those semi-threaded rods that held better with less torque.
I love your channel and your my go to source to see that the 6mm arc is the cartridge that should replace the 223. I've tried many others and haven't had much luck. looks like I will be buying a 6mm arc barrel.
that double group has me intrigued. also would like to see groups with higher than 30.0 grains charge just to see how they stay together or spread.
Did some loading with the 103 gr eldx this weekend, I have a faxon 18” 1in8 twist barrel with a faxon Grendel bolt. Using lever revolution at 2.260” coal and Remington 7 1/2 primers I worked up to 29.6gr, was not totally satisfied with groups and velocity so I shot groups from 29.5 to 29.8 grains, saw pressure signs at 29.7 and 29.8 flattened primers quite a bit. But the 29.8gr load shot 2650 FPS. Way too hot but now I know. This is a hunting load so only a few shots a year in cool to cold weather so I will be going with the 29.6 gr load, need to tweak it for accuracy and velocity consistency but I need to try cfe223 as well so many that will be better.
Fired, new or resized brass when measuring jam doesn't matter, but you must measure your base to shoulder and compensate for that difference on your resized brass. Your actually measuring shoulder to jam. Hope that makes sense.
You do a GREAT job of balancing moving the video along with good detail.
its common to open the neck a bit with a mandrel or by seating a bullet, and then sand the inside a hair to get that last bit to allow the bullet to slide in and out smoothly.
Hello Johnny keep up the great work👍
Impact sports did a video about getting base to ojive. He added a small drop of locktight on the inside of the neck of the case. He added a bullet and slowly put it in the chamber. Add the bolt and leave for a little. Then slowly pull the round out with the bolt. It holds the bullet in place. Use only a little bit of blue locktight
The Sinclair OAL tool uses the bullets and brass independent of each other to get a measurement so you don't have to try and expand the necks. Plus you don't need to make special cases for each measurement. Just use a fireformed or sized case.
YES... love seeing a new video. Great stuff as usual mate.
Can’t wait to see your results with the lighter bullets. I’m wanting to try a 6mm arc for predator hunting. Should work good for coyote hunting!
I've been gathering all the goodies for my 6arc. I'm liking the 90gr TGK . I want a coyote round!
Johnny, have you ever thought about getting the shell holders that are setup to vary the offset by .001 per the holder? Redding makes them and they work wonders for getting setback just right. What mags are you using that you can get to 2.300 OAL to fit? Mine will only allow 2.288 and it will start binding.
I think he said elsewhere he uses stoner mags
You can get a appropriate size pin gauge to open the neck back up. They are like $4 on Amazon. Just taper one end. I use these to make my own expander mandrel
Just do it that ole timer way. Drop a bullet in barrel, measure from muzzle with solid rod, pull bullet, close bolt, measure again. Subtract and COAL done. Solid rod from Ace or Lowes 3 bucks. Trick from Old Man Hornadys Book.
Knipex parallel jaw pliers are less likely to round off faces compared to an adjustable wrench. Worth picking up.
I have had good luck with odin barrels. I have an 18 inch DMR 223 wylde that shoots whatever I throw in it under an inch. It even likes the bobs bulk bullets. No complaints.
GREAT VIDEO JRB. Getting closer to buying 6 ARC ar with each video.
From my experience with the Hornady OAL gauge, every bullet should measure out CBTO to the same length since you are measuring your chamber/throat and not the bullet. The ogive should be the same no matter the projectile. The OAL should be different
I apologize for the dumb question but I'm trying to learn. Does the gauge measure precisely at the ogive or at a different point in front of it to compare? TIA
@@rustynut1967 The ogive is the point on a particular cone/cylinder where the diameter is the largest (rough definition but it works for this discussion).
Each insert for the Hornady OAL Gague is a set size for the caliber you are measuring and will measure your projectile out at that particular diameter. 22 caliber projectiles are actually .224”, 30 caliber is (typically) .308”. Each insert will measure the projectile to the point where your bullet almost reaches that caliber you are measuring for.
Now, when measuring the maximum length of a loaded cartridge for your rifle, that maximum distance, where the projectile touches the lands in your barrel, will remain constant, regardless of the projectile. Your measured Over All Length will differ for every bullet, even of the same make/model/weight as they are not all exactly the same length. (Couple thousands difference). But the ogive should be the same distance from the case head for every cartridge.
@@josephbhumphrey Thanks for you answer but I don't think the bullet comparator measures at the point of bullet contact to the land. After much head scratching I read the hornady instructions and this is what it said:
NOTE: different bullets have different ogive curvature
(i.e. #6 vs. #10 ogive, and secant vs. tangent ogive).
As a result, the bullet free travel (jump) may change
as much as 1/16" or more when one bullet model is
substituted for another. Therefore a comparator cannot
be used to transfer dimensions from bullet style “A”
to bullet style “B”, as this would be an “apples and
oranges” comparison
That is why Johnny's CBTO is different from the ELD-M to the TGK bullets.
@@rustynut1967 In my limited experience reloading, whenever I am measuring my chambers with the Hornady OAL and fired case, the comparator measurements, regardless of what projectile I’m using, are all almost exactly the same measurements. The cartridge OAL’s are drastically different, but the CBTO is the same.
I use the comparator in setting up my dies to give about 0.010 jump in starting my load development.
Love the video.
After removing the straw tip from the Hornady lube, remove the Hornady lube from you bench and send it to hell. It can hang out with all the mangled brass that it got stuck in my dies
@The94GTC maybe their formula changed. I used it for about two years and probably stuck close to a dozen
I shoot the 6mmAR which uses the 6.5 Grendel brass. Functions great.
I'm waiting on my 6 arc barrel. very excited!
Mr Johnny wasnt sure if you already knew but RCBS will send out different bullet seating stems for free, via there customer service. Since you own a set RCBS and could take advantage of freebies. I was able to get a hollow point seating die through the same method. Not sure if it would work for your Hornady but would at least give you options.
Johnny, love your channel. Just a recommendation, get yourself a wooden dowel rod to knock those bullets out. The dowel rod fits perfectly.
N-540's selling point is increased velocity without a pressure increase. I'm testing it in my Colt M4 to replace N-140 (75gr Hornady BTHP Match). Great results so far.
So you had better results with the N-540 over the N-140? I was thinking of trying the 540
Great video Johnny. Can't wait to see more on this 6mm arc. Still try figer place for this when 243win dose same thing . Only difference 6mm arc fit into a ar15 vs ar10 platform.
Aloha! Always enjoy your videos. Thank you and a bit surprised your not at at least 500,000 subscribers.
Your videos are enough to spook potential reloaders off.
I really like the new target info layout
I tried the 8208 xbr with the 95 gr SST, and the 90 & 100 gr TGK’s, couldn’t get it to work. I tried 8208xbr, ar-comp, A2520 and Leverevolution. So far the Leverevolution is the sweet spot in my 20” nitrided CMMG 6 ARC barrel. Hope you get better results, good luck. My pet load so far is the 95 gr SST on top of 30.4 grs Leverevolution and CCI 450 primers
Mabe try Reloader 15 or Shooters world AR plus?
when checking seating depth you progressively got longer and longer and only relied on feel. I mark up the the bullet with a felt tip or what ever and check then do it to get a visual of it and the feel. Just a thought. As always you give us great insight into problems thanks
Keep it up!
what to do , build a 6.5 grendel or a 6mm arc ? i was thinking on a wildcat 6mm ar , 6mm grendel etc . all are the grendel case necked down to 6mm . and basicly what is the 6mm arc ? yea a necked down grendel case . most of my shooting is under 300 yards . so ether the arc or grendel will work the same for me . but small groups are better ! i'm leaning to the old grendel as brass is easy to find . well it is when the craziness is not going on ! this build will be a target / varmit gun . going to go with a krieger 24 inch bull barrel with a plus one gas system length . yes it will be heavy ! keep up the great work shanan aka johnny !
I have been missing these videos!! Love the grendel!!
I wish more companies would make AR based calibers in bolt action platforms.
Best reloading channel
a couple things you can do with that Hornady there's the o-ring size I don't have it with me but you can change the o-ring under that and tighten that up or call Hornady and they'll send you some shims for underneath those lock on the bushings
Great video as always Johnny! I was curious if you have read up on the new 8.6 Creedmoor at all? Basically the 300 Blackout for the AR10 platform using a cut down and necked up 6.5 Creedmoor case with a .338 Federal bullet, showing optimal barrel lengths around 10-12"
I went to a Sharps 25-45 and it works great on antelope. 3 taken with 3 bullets fired. One shot drops.. 87g @ 2950fps....
My Faxon 16" SS QPQ HBAR with 1in8 Twist loves the Black 105g BTHP . Co worker has 20" Faxon and his also likes the 105g better.
I'm not a precision shooter. So 1.75 MOA is very good for me . My buddy who shoots PR comps shot right at 1 MOA .
I mainly shoot Steel shiloute targets from 100 - 600 Yards. I did get first round hits at 880 yards. So I'm sold on the 6ARC.
I'm gonna be trying out 13" 6ARC very soon . I'm interested to see if I can get 2400 FPS with 105g BTHP. If so it will be my new favorite ..
In quickload I used the 6mmAR data for my 6 Predator loads. Looks like Varget would be a good powder for the 108eldm bullets. Varget looks like you can get a full case and 98% powder burn and 2500 fps without going over saami spec pressures. IMR4895 looks very good too. The 8208xbr doesn't look to good.
Sort bullets base to ogive. Use expander mandrel to give 0.002" neck tension. Very well could of made the 29.4gr load not jump around. Cheers
H322 used to be the "go to" 6PPC powder... N133 is these days.... N133/H4895 would probably give you want you want in that case. I'd try AR-Comp also
Excellent video! keep up the good work
While your barrel is off resize a piece of brass seat a bullet long drop in chamber bullet will stick in lands seat bullet deeper repeat until bullet does not stick in lands your done get shooting 👍
Take the time and watch The A team precision (it’s on his FB page) method of finding your lands it’s the only way I do it now so much more consistent than the Hornady gauge. If your putting any pressure on the plastic rod in the Hornady gauge you are already in the lands
I have that same press, it works good
95 grain Sierra Tipped Match Kings rock in my .243, I bet they would do nicely in the 6mm ARC
Same comment; if you buy stems for .243, you should have everything you need for 6 ARC
Would love to see how they work on a frozen pumpkin
Can you give links to the equipment you use in this video at the range?
Wouldn't you want your modified case to have the same shoulder measurement as the brass you're actually loading/shooting so your jump is representative of what's actually going on?
when I 1st got into Long Range Shooting and reloading for Extreme Long Range also, Erik Cortina said you DO NOT want to Resize your modified brass.
Never seen u try Accurate Arms 2015 in anything Johnny 2015 is quickly becoming my favorite 223, 204 powder. Wonder if it would work in 6 ARC. I’ve found that single base extruded powders give the best accuracy and standard deviations.
I have a 6mm Haze, a little more case capacity than Arc. The 95gr smk runs amazing and the BC is nice
What is the 6mm Haze? It didn’t come up in google.
I have the same problem with brass. My thought is not all brass is equal and its not as good as its claimed to be.
I would love to see what a person could get out of a bolt gun with the 100 grain TGKs. A 22 inch barrel and a sweetheart powder and maybe you could push 2650 to 2700? If so you've got an adequate deer cartridge at reasonable distances.
I have a Hornady full length die set for the 6.5 Grendel that I purchased a few years ago. I thought everything was going to be great! That is until the third and fourth reloads started to blow apart. I found that full length was not the way to go with this set of dies. .008 to .010 too small. The necking was about right but working the brass, just stretched it out and thin. I ordered a set of Lee dies, and they were a little better. Why didn't they go by the book?
I like the ONE SHOT case lube but it makes a horrible sticky mess out if your shell holders. I use old 9mm factory box holders to spray my brass.
Good video Johnny!
I think, with 100gr bullet you should start with at least 26.5gr. Excelent video as usal.
I’m jealous you’re going shooting in short sleeves. It was 7 degrees the other night up here in Idaho.
I'm sure that amongst the pile of dies that you have, a suitable seating stem could be located for just about anything!
I have found that even though velocities with the stick powders are low, the velocity swings aren't worth it. The heavy bullets are effiecient enough to stay super-sonic at 1k with a MV of 2400 fps.
Johnny I love your videos man, lots of good info, I especially like that you generally try a lot of powders. I just wonder if you have a problem with Barnes bullets, like a bad experience or something. I can't really remember you using them much if any. I feel like the 80 grain ttsx would be ideal for the 6mm arc. I've always found the Barnes to be very accurate and incredibly lethal, especially in somewhat underpowered cartridges like the arc. This is especially true when you use bullets on the lighter end of the spectrum. The harder you drive them, the better they perform. Just my .02, but I really think you'll like how they perform, and they dont leave microscopic lead particles in your venison either.
I hope he does some stuff with barnes bullets. They are my go to hunting bullets because they are accurate and absolutely lethal. I used a 140gr ttsx at 2750 fps in a 7mm08 and a 168gr ttsx at 2725 in a 308win. The damage those rounds did to deer made me feel like have used them on a grizzly bear instead.
Hi there everytime the speed going down for some reason get more accurate I read that for the British f class at 1000 yr
I think I'm gonna have to look into the 6 ARC.