working on the same topics with my ATC40s :) ... changed the wires (definitely audible / Neotech solid core OCC 18AWG), changed the binding post (no really a audible change here, but the original ones look like sh*t), trying out now Mundorf evo aluminum caps, but on the heights at least not really anything really audible (just one cap there). Didnt play with the resistors till now. The tweeter is really awesome ... measure flat to 1000hz! A little bit confused about the implementation in the 19s. In the 40s tweeter is +2-3db over the main level after 12khz. Xover all nice in phase. Drivers are in general top of the line. Not many bass drivers out there to go 43Hz at -3db in closed box! The mids are legendary, dont have to say much about them ... measure flat from 200 to 6000 are Xed at 380 and 3800 in the ATC40s. On the cabinet i have put 2-3 layers of 4mm acoustic bitum overall. That does a good job and add also another 4,5 kg per speaker. But some kind really bad and strange - even the big cabinets of the 40s are without bracing and the same 18mm thin mdf.
I have the SCM19 v2. Superb speaker. They will show any weaknesses in your system. I power mine with a leema tucana ii integrated and absolutely love them.
Hello I am considering ethers these or the 40's I just have not place to audition. The 40's are a bit high priced. My Amp is the rega aethos. Take care
@@jep6365 They are week in several areas and need a few upgrades. We've upgraded a couple of their models: gr-research.com/product-category/atc-upgrades/
Would love to see more of these evaluations!... about two months ago i picked up a used pair of Tetra 222s (msrp was around $3.5k). In terms of endorsements and reviews they look great, they sound better than the cheaper Energy speakers they replaced, (cabinets seem really solid). About a week ago a friend suggested swapping the Tetras out on my computer desk top w/ Harbeth 30.1 speakers, (cabinets on these sound thinner when knocking on them, they have a higher msrp and are bigger speakers). The Harbeth's sound is subjectively richer and more seductive. Long story short a GR Research assessment that shows how much room for improvement there is for either or both of these speakers would be awesome.
Dampening boxpannels is very effectif and much more easy with tinner pannels , with thick pannels its not easy to get rid of the pannel resonance, and even if you cannot measure it you will hear it, all bbc speakers are made with thin pannels for that purpose, great job by Danny
Hi, First of all, thank you Danny for all your fantastic information, i like a lot watching your videos! Secondly, I'm enjoying having a pair of SCM40's, lovely 3-way version, and I'm wondering if all the upgrade possibilities you made in this video for the SCM19's are also applicable for the ATC floorstanders...
Been watching his reviews and suggestions for some time. I'm so happy I found his channel before I proceeded to build my theater room that is in the works. I'm so picky and budget minded. I want a specific sound and look to the room and won't settle for less.
me to, but there's something i want to say, can you do one speaker and than compare it so we could see "the before" and "the upgrade ", we never see the result of an upgraded crossover ,you just say , i going to do this or i did that ,i love to see "old" vs "upgraded"
Really it's o.k. but you made a nice choice in life to keep on watching. I don't understand lots too. I know if I do this I'll get that outcome " most times" but I don't understand why it happened. I don't need to know. All I wanted was the outcome by replacing that x over part. " I'm not going to school to know why" Keep on watching you'll learn more about just what you needed this week.
side note comment - I have the ATC MkII CD player/preamp - - in my opinion, it way outperforms it's cost - love it for playing PCM CD's (I run it as if it were a CD player, I'm not using the preamp section on my other components so I can't speak to that aspect)
If you take a pair of already expensive speakers and place expensive caps in them, you will change the character of the speaker. However, that change will be subjective to the listener and even more dependent on the equipment upstream of the speakers. At least that has been my experience.
Heard the atc scm40 sounds really good, but i didin’t buy them they was a bit out of my budget and i can’t take them for try out home, i took the b&w 702 s2 for a try and i don’t regret it one bit, the details is so deep into the recordings with those speakers, but that speaker can be a bit on the bright side, witch won’t appeal to all people, in some recordings it can get to much, but on right recordings i am blown away
The more ATC reviews I watch, the more I'm convinced that they're my next set of speakers. They seem to value good engineering and performance over everything else.
@@drs-Rigo-Reus I have the ATC SCM v2, they work fine as long as your AMP is able to deliver 60W per channels continuously or so. I drive them with a Yamaha A-S 1200, but that, from the point of power, is overkill. What can i say, i'm a sucker for VU meters. I would say a Yamaha A-S 501 has more than enough clean power. I would however recommend a subwoofer, if you can, with DSP. The SCM 19 v2 are a closed box, they don't go that far down.
I can’t imagine the number of speakers that get sent in for testing, analysis and upgrades. That is a testament to the depth of knowledge, testing and analysis, and skills of Danny and his Associates at GR Research that so many audiophiles send their speakers in for analysis and upgrade kits. This shows a high level of trust and respect for Danny’s Methodology and accumulated knowledge in the field of audio reproduction. A truly unique and invaluable experience and one that testifies to how manufacturers cut corners to save just a few dollars. Danny reveals much about the current industry standards while providing his customers the support the manufacturers lack. 👍🏻 In the meantime every produced video is a masterclass in how things should be done.
While I'm not convinced the updates would make audible differences, I'm open to trying it. Is there a direct link on the site that goes to the ATC 19 upgrade kit?
@@BrianGarside Not at all no. Note those great measurements he shows were before any mods done, and none needed for them to sound outstanding. There's also a vid on YT I saw with one of their engineers discussing tests they'd done with additional bracing and such, and there were no differences, so they didn't bother. As i said above, not convinced his upgraded will have any audible or measurable differences. I think ATC really focused on where the tech and $ should be to get best sound for the price point possible, which is the drivers.
@@willbrink Glad to hear that wasn't an issue. I'm pleased they focused on the drivers and not the cosmetics of the cabinet per see, then asking another grand like some do.
@@BrianGarside Personally, I think they look great, but that's subjective of course. With a quality sub (or 2!), they blow away most speakers costing more. I had a pair of B&W 803ds that cost far more before the ATCs with a sub, and find the ATC superior by a wide margin. He found the high end tipped down a tad, but they are smoothest high end I can recall, regardless of $. Look into the design of their soft dome tweeter, it's not your typical soft dome with the usual drawbacks / roll off, of other soft domes.
@@willbrink Cosmetically they are pleasing enough to me, Im just talking about the uber nice italian made ones I suppose. Sonically all the points you made about the emphasis on the mids was the one thing that told me these are engineered with sound quality in mind not to mention what you said about the tweeter soft dome without the usual cons just the pure sound of the soft dome.
Thanks Danny putting up this video. I knew you would pick up on the three things i did. I will most definitely go for your upgrade package. Not sure about the tweeter lift, i find it to be OK in my room.
i think the tweeter on those is set to be "relaxed" as they are often used as studio monitors and this would mean they are less fatiguing when listened to for extended periods while working on sound. Its a bit more stressful than simply enjoying music so it the design makes sense to me.
I like the original voicing, good for long listening session. But the cabinet with no bracing and the fill for damping is sub standard, unless they want to add some colorations in the mids. Very nice looking woofer. I wish we could see the tweeter, also designed by ATC, as far as I know.
Yes I wanted a look too. Back in my days in the downtown speaker shop. We're talking and the owner said that there just a modified Vifa tweeter. This was some 20+/- years ago. Have you seen ATC mid range driver, it looks the same magnet wise. Like Audax pro driver the woofers blow easy but the rest sounds nice. Just basic talk.
Designed and built in house by ATC. They may look like typical soft dome tweeters, but go look at the engineering and design that went into them, all the benefits of the soft dome sound, without the roll off.
They said they measure it and couldn't improve on the cabinet or the damping, so they didn't. Given the money they poured into the cabinet, speakers and network i believe they wouldn't hesitate to add some more dampening if it made a difference.
I don't think that eliminating the resonances of the closed box cabinet improves the sound, it may be that the resonance is desired and tuned to the project of the speakers
This speaker looks like the SCM19? If so it appears to be a sealed enclosure but from what I can tell it is NOT a true acoustic suspension design. The acoustic suspension design relies not only on the gradient between internal and external air pressure to provide the restoring force on the cone but on stuffing to control the damping factor. The single resonance peak in the impedance curve suggests this is not a ported speaker. Even the inventor of the acoustic suspension principle Edgar Villchur didn't fully understand how and why it works so well. Damping is achieved by aerodynamic drag pushing and pulling air between the fibers in the stuffing. The total surface area of the fibers in a fully filled enclosure with stuffing is enormous. This frictional work, that is conversion of kinetic energy into heat is comparable to the reason the space shuttle gets hot when it reenters the atmosphere at high speed. The loss is directly related to the velocity. The spring constant is directly related to the difference in air pressure between the inside and outside of the enclosure. Both are independent of amplitude and frequency. The system is tuned therefore by three elements, mass m, trapped air k, and stuffing b. It's the standard second order ordinary differential equation of Newton's second law of motion solved for forced oscillation and is in every standard first year college physics textbook. Because this enclosure is not filled with stuffing its damping isn't controlled that way. Other designs that are ported have serious problems with b and k. For them m is usually low. In the case of acoustic suspension speakers it is typically high to keep Fs low and compliance is very high. The system can be tuned to any F3 and any Q desired. At Q=0.707 critical damping the falloff below resonance is 12 db per octave and is equalizable. This is the highest Q without a FR bump up. Restoring force is applied uniformly over the surface of the cone reducing the tendency for breakup due to radial and circumferential force gradients on the cone. Between the turbulence and high Q of a port b and k are by comparison a nightmare.
@@Leoneidas yes but only from 20 tp 20,000 times a second. Is the pain on your left side in or out of phase with the pain on your right side? Depending on your answer there are different neurologists for one or the other but not both. You could be suffering from intracranial dysphagia. Take two M&Ms and call me in the morning.
@@tggonzales7971 that small amount of whatever it is doesn't qualify. Normally they're filled to the brim. Originally.AR used mineral wool, then fiberglsss. Today the substitute is synthetic. A rule of thumb but not always optimal is one pound per cubic foot of interior space.
I am very impressed with your videos. Can you supply or suggest the best bookshelf size speaker for about 1000 dollars a pair. I am based in the UK..... I have a 25 watt amp per channel Art Audio Jota .
You might want to check out our X-LS Encore kit. We can send you the fully upgraded and maxed out version with a sheet of No Rez including shipping for under $1,000.
@@dannyrichie9743 How do you make sure that cabinet resonances (sound coming from the cabinet because it rings) don't reach the mic? I though spectral decay is a combination of everything a speaker sends out after the first signal is done.
Danny, What happens when you compare measurements before and after bracing and No-rez.. on something like this? Wouldn’t there be better results on the crossover design if those changes were made first?
I'm still happy with my DIY speakers that I threw together back in 1978. They each have one 15" woofer, two mid-range, and four tweeters. Although, I did have to replace the outer foam rings on the woofers after they literately had turned to dust due to age. But that just cost me $27. Anyhow, I bet you despise having more than one tweeter.
I am not making an argument for or against but the thin wall construction is very prevalent in many British monitor designs. They are not trying to cheap out, it's just part of their view of cabinet design. I think the no rez would be a benefit but I probably would forgo the bracing. If your belief is a dead cabinet approach, you should just start over. And as for wire, absolutely as the Brits seem to believe lamp cord is sufficient.
The important thing is the total acoustic including the box.And how all that interacts in your room.Every box has a sound .It might be lightly built or very heavily built and braced and damped but it still contributes to the total sound.There really is no right or wrong as long as it sounds good.A lot of the great sounding speakers are probably a result of good luck as much as design.All the components just seem to gel together to produce something that sounds a bit special.Even the best makers can't reproduce that consistently and that is a fair indication that even the best designers with the best resources and best components usually do not get it right.We see that all the time where a company brings out a new model which is supposed to improve on an old one and only succeed in making it sound much worse.Why many of us prefer to use proven older "unimproved " and probably technically flawed models rather than modern ones .Speakers like Gale 401s for example.There is just a "rightness" to their sound and they are incredibly musically engaging.Same goes for the classic BBC derived designs of the 1970s.A more recent example is the Dynaudio C1.That is just a magic sounding little speaker.The new replacement model is good but does not have that magic.
that's fair and the amount of places you see ATCs certainly speaks for itself. And its obviously kinda difficult to test on your own if you only have one set of speakers to modify if you're actually improving anything. but for once we have actual measurements to back up the argument, not just a verbal evaluation, and that goes a long way towards discerning improvements.
Very cool I was looking forward to your review of these! I have the scm40's which are a taller box 3 way, can I use your no res in those? And also do you sell upgraded wire for the inside and binding posts?
The biggest changes come from the capacitors and even inductors, resistors basically just gather and dissipate heat and i havent found them to change the sound signature really, but i can say this, the dayton poly caps are really the best value for the money, and ive tried alot, unless you want really warm sound on top end then i do favor the film and foil caps, but sometimes their overly warm and lose some detail, depends on tastes.
@@MrsZambezi Wrong again. Different caps sound a little different and if you cannot tell the difference, then you might be in need of a Hi-Fi setup with better resolution and then electrolytics vs film will become clear as night and day. Good to see you again.
@@MrsZambezi A colleague of mine used to call my elaborate setup and controversial opinions audiovoodoo. An engineer as well, albeit 10 years my senior. No argument, no listening session could ever convince him. That was until he got his hands on standard and KI version of a Marantz amp. He was perplexed, because there was no denying they sounded a little different. We then narrowed down the mods to the transformer, filter caps and signal caps in the voltage amp section. He nearly shot himself as a result of this disturbing discovery. Some take half a lifetime, some don't, I guess.
@@MrsZambezi Most definitely yes; polyester, polypropylene and polystyrene caps sound different, metalized film and film & foil caps differ as well, coiled and stacked differ. Sn, Cu, Al, Ag foils influence the sound as well, same with the film thickness/voltage rating. Electrolytic Elnas, Audio Note Kaiseis, Nichicons, Rubycons and Nippon Chemis also display different sound characteristics. Oh and no, you cannot simulate ESR with a resistor, it's frequency dependent for a start, but is also has voltage and temperature dependent elements. Oversimplification never works.
@@MrsZambezi I tend to put trust in my own workshop equipment and especially my ears - afterall, I do not listen to music with a spectrum analyzer. You're bang on the money though regarding deteriorating electrolytics; although specified for thousands of hours in arduous conditions, the rubber seal itself is usually guaranteed for 10 to 15 years only.
If speakers sound great who cares how this is achieved other than the longevity of the components. ATC has some of the best and they build their own. Americans aren't particularly regarded for making musical sounding speakers compared to those manufactured in the UK 🇬🇧
one thing I learned from watching many of Danny's episodes, is that the price of a great pair of speakers does not guarantee a perfect sound. All the speakers available need to be heard and before that, need to be paired with the right amplifier and the source. Also, most audiophiles have hearing impairment and many are seniors, so age will define one's hearing abilities.
I'm more than happy with my old speakers and old ears .don't think I would ever replace my tannoy Westminster royal gr .they are one hell of a speaker well I think so .
I had ATC scm 100 active towers a very big box as you can imagine with a 12 inch bass driver 3 inch,dome mid and 1 inch tweeter . The front baffle was a chunk of 25 mm mdf but the rest only 18 mm mdf ,man that cabinet was noisy you could feel the music through the box which was a pity because as you can see otherwise the thing had great drivers and great 3 way amplifiers and active crossovers but let down by the unbraced cabinet .I eventually sold them and bought Meridian dsp8000 . Now ATC prices have increased a lot since 2008 I hope they have improved the cabinets because they are a great little english company near Stroud supplying a lot of the worlds studios and theatres .
Is it possible to use car audio speakers, make a box or something and turn it into a house speaker for use with home theater systems.. because they make some killer subs for cars, shake a block with a good Amp. Then they also sell good mid and high speakers for cars.
Looks like Danny make these more to my taste. I am not fan of tweeter being too low level. Those midbass/midrange drivers are really something! Amazing work again!
For those asking what DIY kits outperform these - you can build a pair of Dennis Murphy's BMR's for less than $1500 all in - speakerhardware has the flat packs for the cabinets. you can outperform these ATC's for much less, especially if you're willing to incorporate a minidsp to integrate a subwoofer
finished versions by Jim Salk who does the most beautiful cabinets in the industry - still less than the ATC's www.salksound.com/model.php?model=BMR+Monitors
if you are OK with high gloss black, NHT's C3 and C4 speakers sound better (I've heard both in the same room) and are far cheaper, often on sale on Amazon around Black Friday. Danny didn't like the Revel Performa's but those are also better speakers. By the time you get stands for the ATC you're in shouting distance of the F208 which is also a better speaker than these ATC's. The list goes on, and these are just passive speakers. In a small enough room you can find active monitors to sit on that shelf
@@mundie33 I don't recommend those BMR's. They are known for having driver integration issues and cancellation in the vertical off axis. Also, the Revel's are not even in the same ballpark as the ATC's.
@@mundie33 NHT C3 are crap, I've had them, and my older monitor audio gold reference GR20's make those NHT's sound broken, small and utterly compressed to hell, those NHT C3 just sound bad no matter what, sticking loads of power through them does nothing for their small and compressed sound quality, with their low sensitivity, and too many crossover components for a single wired 3 way loudspeaker makes for poor loudspeaker combination altogether.
Not currently, but from what I have seen, they do a good job with the design. Just upgrade the parts value for value. Some tube connectors, and some No Rez will really help too.
So what you are saying is Send in a driver get it back then install it. All this time I've been buying Left & right drivers to replace one cooked driver. That is why when i see Teken ? with all those drivers i keep walking
I have a production speaker that is a little rare it uses well known diy parts I’d be very curious what Danny think of them and what He could do! I just don’t know if I could afford the cost. The 100$ I spent for them they already blow me away
I don't really understand how he opened all the speakers tell as how he fixes everything changed the components and Have new measurements! and while talking about them I can still see the "old version" of speaker with the old components inside , in front of him ? Does he charge it back??
Went to see if I could pick up a pair of ATC speakers cheap to try a GR-R upgrade and have a fun project. Holy cow are these expensive! Glad they have good drivers but that's a rip off for the cabinet quality.
That's a nice little business he's got. Measuring the speakers and adjusting levels. Then selling extra useless parts to fix it. All about the speakers is they sound different and if you don't like one you try another. I assume company making them is aware about characteristics and GR here is trying to sell his stuff. Oh well
Well you are in for treat! If you haven’t heard a good speaker been upgraded with better crossover parts, then you don’t know nothing. Try it yourself! But if you are old or have problems with your hearing, then skip this. BUT don’t complain to Danny, whom upgrades OTHER people’s speakers, because they want to take them to the next level. He offers this to others that feel and hear the same. He doesn’t sell useless parts and here are you uneducated. Look up how much a Sonic cap inductor cost! He adds super parts to a standard speaker. Overkill? Depends on your preference. BUT stay out, if you don’t understand.
Any comment about idea to remove crossover from inside and make it external, remove it from this huge midbass magnet and pressure, maybe get little more volume on internal volume.
I'm a big fan of doing this. The box is right beside me, just swap the part on the fly to go and hit play, or drop the needle down. Dayton now that's is interesting to me, too.
This speaker is so far above his it is ridiculous, just check out ATC history. I’m not knocking Danny I love his work, but ATC are in nearly all major studios in some way or another for very good reason. Cheers.
@@hifiman4562 I stand my statement, ATC are an incredible speaker manufacturer ,however I do believe Danny’s expertise can and would make almost any speaker sound better, the man is a magician.
I don’t need to, sound engineers all over the world use ATC for a very good reason. Just the quality of drivers is so far apart it isn’t a fair contest. As I said earlier the man is a magician he can make any great speaker exemplary and has made even poor ones good . Check out the history of ATC , it’s actually pretty interesting. I couldn’t really argue about this mate as both billy woodman and Danny are my heroes as far as speaker design goes. Perhaps my statement came across a bit harsh. Just imagine if they worked together!! Cheers
If all loudspeakers were professionally analyzed as in this engineering break down, professionals and consumers would be better served. While not out to diss audio loudspeaker reviewers, it proves most haven't a clue as to what is needed to manufacture a great loudspeaker. Some simple component upgrades in the crossover does make an audible improvement, reflected on paper. Why ATC goes through the expense & effort to engineer great drivers but scrimp on the rest of the speaker's components and cabinetry, is anyone's guess.
Is that the full story though? Engineering and measurement goes into creating speakers. By analysing each component based on the "expensive-ness" of it does not mean that the final product will be great. A component that cost 20% of an expensive component but has 90% of the performance, means the product has great cost-performance ratio. You are ultimately looking at ATC entry series. If you want better components and cabinetry, you can always go for their classic series. Cost at least 50% more, but is the performance even 50% better? Is it even 30%? I doubt it is even 15% better. And that is why, the entry series is there. Affordable and pretty darn good enough for the money.
Would that NoRez stuff result in smaller cabinet volume and if so, would it be enough to make a difference in terms of bass? Because i feel my SCM19 v2 are a bit bass shy already. I added a subwoofer, but would have its crossover frequency rather lower than higher.
@@dannyrichie9743 I'm designing a 3 1/2 way floorstanding loudspeaker and the driver is the Dayton Audio 52mm midrange silk dome driver (x2). It has a Fs of approx. 390Hz and I want to crossover to the woofer around that point (around 350Hz). The woofer is an 8" size (x4). I chose the silk dome midrange for its high detail, dispersion and output. Would the Fs of 390Hz be an issue you think? I crossed it over at approx. 1,700Hz with a chosen tweeter on the highpass side as per your numerous recommendations regarding the ideal tweeter crossover point (the lower the better).
@@kenthomas1613 No man's land for a crossover is in the heart of the vocal region. You never want to slit a signal there to dissimilar drivers are add a phase shift in that region. That region is 300Hz to 500Hz. It is more ideal to get below 200Hz or above 800Hz.
I use a JBL 15" K140 woofer in a home built cabinet with only 10mm/0.39" thick plywood. But the cone does not move enough to be visible so is thick walls really necessary here? Also, I was blown away by ATCs bigger speaker with the famous Dome midrange. But after getting compression drivers and horns I am not so impressed anymore. The ATC tweeter is kind of screechy compared to RAAL ribbon tweeters. But so is the top of the line dome tweeters I have listened to as well.
Danny, thanks for all your very interesting videos 🙏👍 Now that you’ve exposed the ATCs it would be really great to get your opinion on the Harbeths… maybe the 30s series? Can’t wait for that one! 😎
I’d definitely consider doing that if I was living a little closer to you! Hopefully someone from your side of the pond may be willing to send a pair in 🤞
I wish he had a website forum. Once I had an idea, store will let you try before you buy. Good open one up and to see. What this they poured dark epoxy over the x over. I for got who AE 1 Pro a.c. tablet
This is an interesting point, but one where I have never had a clear answer from anyone including ATC. If their best speakers are all active, then why do they even make passive speakers? Why would they go to the trouble to build amplifiers? I understand that yes, an active speaker can match one or more amps to optimize each driver blah blah blah. But those amps are still made to a price point which is limited by what the market will support. If someone like Nelson Pass built amps and crossovers specifically matched to an ATC passive speaker, why would that really be any worse? Why couldn't it be even better??
no, they aren't at all ... I tried Accuphase pre/power class A + pair Rel T9i with SCM 100 passive much better than scm100 asl pro active ... so, nothing's absolute, but matter of tastes ... just my opinion, buddies...
I had the ATC SCM 40's, the 19's and the 11's. Build quality overall was not good - especially on the cabinets. The grills were poorly matched and did not sit right. I started with the 11's but found the bass lacking so then went to the 40's, and then the 19's. I did not like the 19's and 40's at all and was sorry I hadn't kept the 11's and bought a sub-woofer. Overall I liked the crisp sound of the ATC speakers but they were too clinical for me. And given the poor build quality, overpriced.
All the reviews from this company say the speakers can be improved by buying their products. Is this therefore a marketing exercise to get sales or a genuine review ?
Thank you so much, Scott, we SCM19 owners appreciate you taking the risk sending the speakers to Danny. :-)
working on the same topics with my ATC40s :) ... changed the wires (definitely audible / Neotech solid core OCC 18AWG), changed the binding post (no really a audible change here, but the original ones look like sh*t), trying out now Mundorf evo aluminum caps, but on the heights at least not really anything really audible (just one cap there). Didnt play with the resistors till now.
The tweeter is really awesome ... measure flat to 1000hz! A little bit confused about the implementation in the 19s. In the 40s tweeter is +2-3db over the main level after 12khz.
Xover all nice in phase. Drivers are in general top of the line. Not many bass drivers out there to go 43Hz at -3db in closed box! The mids are legendary, dont have to say much about them ... measure flat from 200 to 6000 are Xed at 380 and 3800 in the ATC40s.
On the cabinet i have put 2-3 layers of 4mm acoustic bitum overall. That does a good job and add also another 4,5 kg per speaker. But some kind really bad and strange - even the big cabinets of the 40s are without bracing and the same 18mm thin mdf.
Always teaches me something new! Thanks, Sensei!
I have the SCM19 v2. Superb speaker. They will show any weaknesses in your system. I power mine with a leema tucana ii integrated and absolutely love them.
Upgrade them and they'll be twice as good.
Hello I am considering ethers these or the 40's I just have not place to audition. The 40's are a bit high priced. My Amp is the rega aethos.
Take care
@@dannyrichie9743yeah..right
@@dannyrichie9743why would you say that? Seems odd and perhaps misleading?
@@jep6365 They are week in several areas and need a few upgrades. We've upgraded a couple of their models: gr-research.com/product-category/atc-upgrades/
Would love to see more of these evaluations!... about two months ago i picked up a used pair of Tetra 222s (msrp was around $3.5k). In terms of endorsements and reviews they look great, they sound better than the cheaper Energy speakers they replaced, (cabinets seem really solid). About a week ago a friend suggested swapping the Tetras out on my computer desk top w/ Harbeth 30.1 speakers, (cabinets on these sound thinner when knocking on them, they have a higher msrp and are bigger speakers). The Harbeth's sound is subjectively richer and more seductive. Long story short a GR Research assessment that shows how much room for improvement there is for either or both of these speakers would be awesome.
Dampening boxpannels is very effectif and much more easy with tinner pannels , with thick pannels its not easy to get rid of the pannel resonance, and even if you cannot measure it you will hear it, all bbc speakers are made with thin pannels for that purpose, great job by Danny
I
Own the ATC SCM40 loudspeakers and recently purchased the ATC C1C centre speaker.
Extremely pleased with them!
Hi, First of all, thank you Danny for all your fantastic information, i like a lot watching your videos!
Secondly, I'm enjoying having a pair of SCM40's, lovely 3-way version, and I'm wondering if all the upgrade possibilities you made in this video for the SCM19's are also applicable for the ATC floorstanders...
Been watching his reviews and suggestions for some time. I'm so happy I found his channel before I proceeded to build my theater room that is in the works. I'm so picky and budget minded. I want a specific sound and look to the room and won't settle for less.
Danny you never fail to educate and humor me. I love what you're doing man.
me to, but there's something i want to say, can you do one speaker and than compare it so we could see "the before" and "the upgrade ", we never see the result of an upgraded crossover ,you just say , i going to do this or i did that ,i love to see "old" vs "upgraded"
I barley understand any of the jargon in these videos but I can't stop watching them, Danny is a master of his craft.
Really it's o.k. but you made a nice choice in life to keep on watching. I don't understand lots too. I know if I do this I'll get that outcome " most times" but I don't understand why it happened. I don't need to know. All I wanted was the outcome by replacing that x over part. " I'm not going to school to know why"
Keep on watching you'll learn more about just what you needed this week.
side note comment - I have the ATC MkII CD player/preamp - - in my opinion, it way outperforms it's cost - love it for playing PCM CD's (I run it as if it were a CD player, I'm not using the preamp section on my other components so I can't speak to that aspect)
If you take a pair of already expensive speakers and place expensive caps in them, you will change the character of the speaker. However, that change will be subjective to the listener and even more dependent on the equipment upstream of the speakers. At least that has been my experience.
That's what I thought after watching this. Does one want the best sound or a looking for a particular sound? If the former then go DIY.
went from a SCM7 to SCM19, one of the most memorable speaker i had, especially vocals are simply amazing with ATC, eager to try out the SCM40 next
Skip to the scm40a
I own a pair of SCM40’s and they are stunning.
The mid range dome is unique and really conveys vocals extremely well.
@@stephengarratt5076 I have the scm 7's, 11's. Had 40's in the past but sold them for the scm 100's. Top draw speakers.
The price of ATC speakers has risen quite a lot. Bought some used SCM 40's in 2012 for £1500 now they go for £2500+. Solid speakers.
$7000 USD in 2024, God bless rampant inflation.
I like em, and have heard good things about em, but....cant beat my old JBL 4312 set lol! Keep up the good work.
Heard the atc scm40 sounds really good, but i didin’t buy them they was a bit out of my budget and i can’t take them for try out home, i took the b&w 702 s2 for a try and i don’t regret it one bit, the details is so deep into the recordings with those speakers, but that speaker can be a bit on the bright side, witch won’t appeal to all people, in some recordings it can get to much, but on right recordings i am blown away
Hey, does ATC use threaded inserts for their driver holes in the cabinet or just screws into the wood? Thx.
The more ATC reviews I watch, the more I'm convinced that they're my next set of speakers. They seem to value good engineering and performance over everything else.
Know that. They need lots of power, this can be expensive. Ever thought of Finnish Amphion? Very nice.
CAN YOU AFFORD TO WASTE 3000 DOLLARS ????
What ATC would you call “low range”? Hahaha
@@drs-Rigo-Reus I have the ATC SCM v2, they work fine as long as your AMP is able to deliver 60W per channels continuously or so. I drive them with a Yamaha A-S 1200, but that, from the point of power, is overkill. What can i say, i'm a sucker for VU meters. I would say a Yamaha A-S 501 has more than enough clean power.
I would however recommend a subwoofer, if you can, with DSP. The SCM 19 v2 are a closed box, they don't go that far down.
@@keithbickerdike4621 You can't?
Working with ATC PA komponents way back, i can ceaternly wow for the exelent quality of this brand.
Good stuff Danny. Really enjoyed your talk with Ron also. Keep up the good work.
I can’t imagine the number of speakers that get sent in for testing, analysis and upgrades. That is a testament to the depth of knowledge, testing and analysis, and skills of Danny and his Associates at GR Research that so many audiophiles send their speakers in for analysis and upgrade kits. This shows a high level of trust and respect for Danny’s Methodology and accumulated knowledge in the field of audio reproduction. A truly unique and invaluable experience and one that testifies to how manufacturers cut corners to save just a few dollars. Danny reveals much about the current industry standards while providing his customers the support the manufacturers lack. 👍🏻 In the meantime every produced video is a masterclass in how things should be done.
While I'm not convinced the updates would make audible differences, I'm open to trying it. Is there a direct link on the site that goes to the ATC 19 upgrade kit?
Is the box noise noticeable to you Will? I saw both of your videos. But wasn't sure that was an issue?
@@BrianGarside Not at all no. Note those great measurements he shows were before any mods done, and none needed for them to sound outstanding. There's also a vid on YT I saw with one of their engineers discussing tests they'd done with additional bracing and such, and there were no differences, so they didn't bother. As i said above, not convinced his upgraded will have any audible or measurable differences. I think ATC really focused on where the tech and $ should be to get best sound for the price point possible, which is the drivers.
@@willbrink Glad to hear that wasn't an issue. I'm pleased they focused on the drivers and not the cosmetics of the cabinet per see, then asking another grand like some do.
@@BrianGarside Personally, I think they look great, but that's subjective of course. With a quality sub (or 2!), they blow away most speakers costing more. I had a pair of B&W 803ds that cost far more before the ATCs with a sub, and find the ATC superior by a wide margin. He found the high end tipped down a tad, but they are smoothest high end I can recall, regardless of $. Look into the design of their soft dome tweeter, it's not your typical soft dome with the usual drawbacks / roll off, of other soft domes.
@@willbrink Cosmetically they are pleasing enough to me, Im just talking about the uber nice italian made ones I suppose. Sonically all the points you made about the emphasis on the mids was the one thing that told me these are engineered with sound quality in mind not to mention what you said about the tweeter soft dome without the usual cons just the pure sound of the soft dome.
Danny what you’re doing is way passed due, more power to you man awesome ! Sure would like to see an upgrade door Ohm Walsh2!
Live in Europe and ai love the soft upper end. Thats why I bought it!
Thanks Danny putting up this video. I knew you would pick up on the three things i did.
I will most definitely go for your upgrade package. Not sure about the tweeter lift, i find it to be OK in my room.
i think the tweeter on those is set to be "relaxed" as they are often used as studio monitors and this would mean they are less fatiguing when listened to for extended periods while working on sound. Its a bit more stressful than simply enjoying music so it the design makes sense to me.
No, their ‘pro’ line are more flat. In the UK we don’t tend to make as bright hifi as in the states - B&W and Cyrus are examples of the exception.
I like the original voicing, good for long listening session. But the cabinet with no bracing and the fill for damping is sub standard, unless they want to add some colorations in the mids. Very nice looking woofer. I wish we could see the tweeter, also designed by ATC, as far as I know.
Yes I wanted a look too. Back in my days in the downtown speaker shop. We're talking and the owner said that there just a modified Vifa tweeter. This was some 20+/- years ago.
Have you seen ATC mid range driver, it looks the same magnet wise.
Like Audax pro driver the woofers blow easy but the rest sounds nice.
Just basic talk.
Designed and built in house by ATC. They may look like typical soft dome tweeters, but go look at the engineering and design that went into them, all the benefits of the soft dome sound, without the roll off.
They said they measure it and couldn't improve on the cabinet or the damping, so they didn't. Given the money they poured into the cabinet, speakers and network i believe they wouldn't hesitate to add some more dampening if it made a difference.
@@citronski they're monkey coffins, ATC speakers are a rip off
@@citronski nonsense. The build quality is substandard in order to save a few quid. Reprehensible at this price point.
I don't think that eliminating the resonances of the closed box cabinet improves the sound, it may be that the resonance is desired and tuned to the project of the speakers
Sorry, but the resonance is not part of the input signal or part of the original recording. It is added coloration. So it is not desired.
This speaker looks like the SCM19? If so it appears to be a sealed enclosure but from what I can tell it is NOT a true acoustic suspension design. The acoustic suspension design relies not only on the gradient between internal and external air pressure to provide the restoring force on the cone but on stuffing to control the damping factor. The single resonance peak in the impedance curve suggests this is not a ported speaker. Even the inventor of the acoustic suspension principle Edgar Villchur didn't fully understand how and why it works so well. Damping is achieved by aerodynamic drag pushing and pulling air between the fibers in the stuffing. The total surface area of the fibers in a fully filled enclosure with stuffing is enormous. This frictional work, that is conversion of kinetic energy into heat is comparable to the reason the space shuttle gets hot when it reenters the atmosphere at high speed. The loss is directly related to the velocity. The spring constant is directly related to the difference in air pressure between the inside and outside of the enclosure. Both are independent of amplitude and frequency. The system is tuned therefore by three elements, mass m, trapped air k, and stuffing b. It's the standard second order ordinary differential equation of Newton's second law of motion solved for forced oscillation and is in every standard first year college physics textbook. Because this enclosure is not filled with stuffing its damping isn't controlled that way.
Other designs that are ported have serious problems with b and k. For them m is usually low. In the case of acoustic suspension speakers it is typically high to keep Fs low and compliance is very high. The system can be tuned to any F3 and any Q desired. At Q=0.707 critical damping the falloff below resonance is 12 db per octave and is equalizable. This is the highest Q without a FR bump up. Restoring force is applied uniformly over the surface of the cone reducing the tendency for breakup due to radial and circumferential force gradients on the cone. Between the turbulence and high Q of a port b and k are by comparison a nightmare.
Thank you for posting as information is very important.
Now I know why
2:40
My head hertz
@@Leoneidas yes but only from 20 tp 20,000 times a second. Is the pain on your left side in or out of phase with the pain on your right side? Depending on your answer there are different neurologists for one or the other but not both. You could be suffering from intracranial dysphagia. Take two M&Ms and call me in the morning.
@@tggonzales7971 that small amount of whatever it is doesn't qualify. Normally they're filled to the brim. Originally.AR used mineral wool, then fiberglsss. Today the substitute is synthetic. A rule of thumb but not always optimal is one pound per cubic foot of interior space.
Who hoo new vid! So awesome to see you share your knowledge with us Danny! Keep it up!
I am very impressed with your videos. Can you supply or suggest the best bookshelf size speaker for about 1000 dollars a pair. I am based in the UK..... I have a 25 watt amp per channel Art Audio Jota .
You might want to check out our X-LS Encore kit. We can send you the fully upgraded and maxed out version with a sheet of No Rez including shipping for under $1,000.
You say that the cabinet has resonance issues but your spectral decay measurements are fine? What is it?
play them loud thats when they show up
The spectral decay doesn't measure cabinet resonances. It measures how fast the drivers dissipate the signal.
yep@@dannyrichie9743
@@dannyrichie9743 How do you make sure that cabinet resonances (sound coming from the cabinet because it rings) don't reach the mic? I though spectral decay is a combination of everything a speaker sends out after the first signal is done.
@@citronski Those resonance will show up below the range that the spectral decay is covering.
Danny, What happens when you compare measurements before and after bracing and No-rez.. on something like this? Wouldn’t there be better results on the crossover design if those changes were made first?
I suspect the answer is there is no difference with those particular speakers...
I'm still happy with my DIY speakers that I threw together back in 1978. They each have one 15" woofer, two mid-range, and four tweeters. Although, I did have to replace the outer foam rings on the woofers after they literately had turned to dust due to age. But that just cost me $27. Anyhow, I bet you despise having more than one tweeter.
I am not making an argument for or against but the thin wall construction is very prevalent in many British monitor designs. They are not trying to cheap out, it's just part of their view of cabinet design. I think the no rez would be a benefit but I probably would forgo the bracing. If your belief is a dead cabinet approach, you should just start over. And as for wire, absolutely as the Brits seem to believe lamp cord is sufficient.
They have a lot to learn.
The important thing is the total acoustic including the box.And how all that interacts in your room.Every box has a sound .It might be lightly built or very heavily built and braced and damped but it still contributes to the total sound.There really is no right or wrong as long as it sounds good.A lot of the great sounding speakers are probably a result of good luck as much as design.All the components just seem to gel together to produce something that sounds a bit special.Even the best makers can't reproduce that consistently and that is a fair indication that even the best designers with the best resources and best components usually do not get it right.We see that all the time where a company brings out a new model which is supposed to improve on an old one and only succeed in making it sound much worse.Why many of us prefer to use proven older "unimproved " and probably technically flawed models rather than modern ones .Speakers like Gale 401s for example.There is just a "rightness" to their sound and they are incredibly musically engaging.Same goes for the classic BBC derived designs of the 1970s.A more recent example is the Dynaudio C1.That is just a magic sounding little speaker.The new replacement model is good but does not have that magic.
that's fair and the amount of places you see ATCs certainly speaks for itself. And its obviously kinda difficult to test on your own if you only have one set of speakers to modify if you're actually improving anything. but for once we have actual measurements to back up the argument, not just a verbal evaluation, and that goes a long way towards discerning improvements.
Can you apply such an upgrade to the 3-way ATC SCM40? Where are you located?
I have some fullrange Ruark Excalibur loudspeakers. I lined them with code 8 lead. They weight 300kg each and they sound amazing.
"The Rooms are small over there" LOL
Urmurikah!
Very cool I was looking forward to your review of these! I have the scm40's which are a taller box 3 way, can I use your no res in those? And also do you sell upgraded wire for the inside and binding posts?
Danny how are Jantzen resistors compared to Dayton now that mills are unavailable?
The biggest changes come from the capacitors and even inductors, resistors basically just gather and dissipate heat and i havent found them to change the sound signature really, but i can say this, the dayton poly caps are really the best value for the money, and ive tried alot, unless you want really warm sound on top end then i do favor the film and foil caps, but sometimes their overly warm and lose some detail, depends on tastes.
@@MrsZambezi Wrong again. Different caps sound a little different and if you cannot tell the difference, then you might be in need of a Hi-Fi setup with better resolution and then electrolytics vs film will become clear as night and day. Good to see you again.
@@MrsZambezi A colleague of mine used to call my elaborate setup and controversial opinions audiovoodoo. An engineer as well, albeit 10 years my senior. No argument, no listening session could ever convince him. That was until he got his hands on standard and KI version of a Marantz amp. He was perplexed, because there was no denying they sounded a little different. We then narrowed down the mods to the transformer, filter caps and signal caps in the voltage amp section. He nearly shot himself as a result of this disturbing discovery. Some take half a lifetime, some don't, I guess.
@@MrsZambezi Most definitely yes; polyester, polypropylene and polystyrene caps sound different, metalized film and film & foil caps differ as well, coiled and stacked differ. Sn, Cu, Al, Ag foils influence the sound as well, same with the film thickness/voltage rating. Electrolytic Elnas, Audio Note Kaiseis, Nichicons, Rubycons and Nippon Chemis also display different sound characteristics. Oh and no, you cannot simulate ESR with a resistor, it's frequency dependent for a start, but is also has voltage and temperature dependent elements. Oversimplification never works.
@@MrsZambezi I tend to put trust in my own workshop equipment and especially my ears - afterall, I do not listen to music with a spectrum analyzer. You're bang on the money though regarding deteriorating electrolytics; although specified for thousands of hours in arduous conditions, the rubber seal itself is usually guaranteed for 10 to 15 years only.
If speakers sound great who cares how this is achieved other than the longevity of the components. ATC has some of the best and they build their own. Americans aren't particularly regarded for making musical sounding speakers compared to those manufactured in the UK 🇬🇧
Once you go ATC, you only go up the range. Addictive speakers.
one thing I learned from watching many of Danny's episodes, is that the price of a great pair of speakers does not guarantee a perfect sound. All the speakers available need to be heard and before that, need to be paired with the right amplifier and the source. Also, most audiophiles have hearing impairment and many are seniors, so age will define one's hearing abilities.
I'm more than happy with my old speakers and old ears .don't think I would ever replace my tannoy Westminster royal gr .they are one hell of a speaker well I think so .
ATC is a top notch company! Owned a pair and regret letting them go. However, my Proac Response are a pair that work for me!
I had ATC scm 100 active towers a very big box as you can imagine with a 12 inch bass driver 3 inch,dome mid and 1 inch tweeter . The front baffle was a chunk of 25 mm mdf but the rest only 18 mm mdf ,man that cabinet was noisy you could feel the music through the box which was a pity because as you can see otherwise the thing had great drivers and great 3 way amplifiers and active crossovers but let down by the unbraced cabinet .I eventually sold them and bought Meridian dsp8000 . Now ATC prices have increased a lot since 2008 I hope they have improved the cabinets because they are a great little english company near Stroud supplying a lot of the worlds studios and theatres .
Is it possible to use car audio speakers, make a box or something and turn it into a house speaker for use with home theater systems.. because they make some killer subs for cars, shake a block with a good Amp. Then they also sell good mid and high speakers for cars.
Car subs and tweeters, yes. Car specific midbass, not the best choice. Typical car midbass is designed for leaky car door, an infinite baffle.
Looks like Danny make these more to my taste. I am not fan of tweeter being too low level. Those midbass/midrange drivers are really something! Amazing work again!
My speakers...I'm very happy with these...
For those asking what DIY kits outperform these - you can build a pair of Dennis Murphy's BMR's for less than $1500 all in - speakerhardware has the flat packs for the cabinets. you can outperform these ATC's for much less, especially if you're willing to incorporate a minidsp to integrate a subwoofer
finished versions by Jim Salk who does the most beautiful cabinets in the industry - still less than the ATC's
www.salksound.com/model.php?model=BMR+Monitors
if you are OK with high gloss black, NHT's C3 and C4 speakers sound better (I've heard both in the same room) and are far cheaper, often on sale on Amazon around Black Friday. Danny didn't like the Revel Performa's but those are also better speakers. By the time you get stands for the ATC you're in shouting distance of the F208 which is also a better speaker than these ATC's. The list goes on, and these are just passive speakers. In a small enough room you can find active monitors to sit on that shelf
@@mundie33 I don't recommend those BMR's. They are known for having driver integration issues and cancellation in the vertical off axis.
Also, the Revel's are not even in the same ballpark as the ATC's.
@@mundie33 NHT C3 are crap, I've had them, and my older monitor audio gold reference GR20's make those NHT's sound broken, small and utterly compressed to hell, those NHT C3 just sound bad no matter what, sticking loads of power through them does nothing for their small and compressed sound quality, with their low sensitivity, and too many crossover components for a single wired 3 way loudspeaker makes for poor loudspeaker combination altogether.
Ian john Horwood ok boomer
Which resistors are those? I don't see any pure copper Dayton. Just the DNR and DPR series.
Who performed the woofer repair. Have some old alnico woofers that need new voice coils.
Nice SCM 19 passive speakers
Hi Danny. Thank you and I have learned something new from each of your video.
I have an ATC scm7. Do you have an upgrade kit for me?
Not currently, but from what I have seen, they do a good job with the design. Just upgrade the parts value for value. Some tube connectors, and some No Rez will really help too.
So what you are saying is
Send in a driver get it back
then install it. All this time
I've been buying Left & right drivers to replace one cooked driver. That is why when i see Teken ? with all those drivers i keep walking
do you offer a kit for the SCM7?
Are these the SCM 19's ?
I have a production speaker that is a little rare it uses well known diy parts I’d be very curious what Danny think of them and what He could do! I just don’t know if I could afford the cost. The 100$ I spent for them they already blow me away
Danny .you did not mention what model this speaker is
scm11
SCM19
Danny, I probably missed it, but have you done a review of the ATC SCM25A?
Not that model, and I don't really do reviews.
Danny, do you like Mundorf MResist ?
Hair’s on point 💁🏼♂️
They are also way above the usual stuff he deals with class wise. Makes sense.
True, we need to remember that most people send in cheaper loudspeakers.
I don't really understand how he opened all the speakers tell as how he fixes everything changed the components and Have new measurements! and while talking about them I can still see the "old version" of speaker with the old components inside , in front of him ?
Does he charge it back??
Measurements were taking with an externally mounted network.
You never mention the model of this ATC speaker, right?
With drivers that good they have to hold them back from their better SCM20 that uses the same mid / bass driver
To my knowledge the SCM20 has the same drivers and network, but a different cabinet (studio speakers suck when they have soft wood casings).
@@citronski The SCM20 uses the S version of the tweeter
Went to see if I could pick up a pair of ATC speakers cheap to try a GR-R upgrade and have a fun project. Holy cow are these expensive! Glad they have good drivers but that's a rip off for the cabinet quality.
That's a nice little business he's got. Measuring the speakers and adjusting levels. Then selling extra useless parts to fix it.
All about the speakers is they sound different and if you don't like one you try another.
I assume company making them is aware about characteristics and GR here is trying to sell his stuff. Oh well
Well you are in for treat! If you haven’t heard a good speaker been upgraded with better crossover parts, then you don’t know nothing. Try it yourself! But if you are old or have problems with your hearing, then skip this. BUT don’t complain to Danny, whom upgrades OTHER people’s speakers, because they want to take them to the next level. He offers this to others that feel and hear the same. He doesn’t sell useless parts and here are you uneducated. Look up how much a Sonic cap inductor cost! He adds super parts to a standard speaker. Overkill? Depends on your preference. BUT stay out, if you don’t understand.
Any comment about idea to remove crossover from inside and make it external, remove it from this huge midbass magnet and pressure, maybe get little more volume on internal volume.
I'm a big fan of doing this.
The box is right beside me, just swap the part on the fly to go and hit play, or drop the needle down.
Dayton now that's is interesting to me, too.
How does this speaker compare to your diy kit?
This speaker is so far above his it is ridiculous, just check out ATC history.
I’m not knocking Danny I love his work, but ATC are in nearly all major studios in some way or another for very good reason.
Cheers.
@@Openeyesopenheart42 Have you heard the GR line to back up your statement?
@@hifiman4562 I stand my statement, ATC are an incredible speaker manufacturer ,however I do believe Danny’s expertise can and would make almost any speaker sound better, the man is a magician.
I don’t need to, sound engineers all over the world use ATC for a very good reason.
Just the quality of drivers is so far apart it isn’t a fair contest. As I said earlier the man is a magician he can make any great speaker exemplary and has made even poor ones good .
Check out the history of ATC , it’s actually pretty interesting.
I couldn’t really argue about this mate as both billy woodman and Danny are my heroes as far as speaker design goes.
Perhaps my statement came across a bit harsh.
Just imagine if they worked together!!
Cheers
Will a bass port improve anything?
Love to see some Volent or Aurum Cantus ribbon speakers come in
And see what lurks inside ………
If all loudspeakers were professionally analyzed as in this engineering break down, professionals and consumers would be better served. While not out to diss audio loudspeaker reviewers, it proves most haven't a clue as to what is needed to manufacture a great loudspeaker. Some simple component upgrades in the crossover does make an audible improvement, reflected on paper. Why ATC goes through the expense & effort to engineer great drivers but scrimp on the rest of the speaker's components and cabinetry, is anyone's guess.
Is that the full story though? Engineering and measurement goes into creating speakers. By analysing each component based on the "expensive-ness" of it does not mean that the final product will be great. A component that cost 20% of an expensive component but has 90% of the performance, means the product has great cost-performance ratio. You are ultimately looking at ATC entry series. If you want better components and cabinetry, you can always go for their classic series. Cost at least 50% more, but is the performance even 50% better? Is it even 30%? I doubt it is even 15% better. And that is why, the entry series is there. Affordable and pretty darn good enough for the money.
Are those ATC SCM-19 V2 speakers?
Yes.
Yes. V1 have a square cabinet, a black front and a aluminium tweeter wave guide + the tweeter is a vifa in them
Yes.
@@dannyrichie9743
is the upgrade possible with the smaller ones too?
Someone tried this upgrade on SCM19?
please test Klinger Favre D56 with ultra tweeter. i promise you, you will be amazed.
Please list the US dealer for home audio ATC. Sweetwater only carries the studio line. Their 19a active speakers just got a rave review recently.
Will, this one you should be able to google. If all fails, call ATC in the UK, they can help.
It's great to see all the data but a sound demo would be definitive.
Would that NoRez stuff result in smaller cabinet volume and if so, would it be enough to make a difference in terms of bass? Because i feel my SCM19 v2 are a bit bass shy already. I added a subwoofer, but would have its crossover frequency rather lower than higher.
No Rez does not affect internal box volume.
I power my scm 11 with a luxman m-117 and have plenty of bass in 14 x 17 room.
@Danny Richie. Quick question.. Is it OK to create a network crossover on one of the driver’s Fs, or is this something to be avoided?
That depends on the driver and application.
@@dannyrichie9743 I'm designing a 3 1/2 way floorstanding loudspeaker and the driver is the Dayton Audio 52mm midrange silk dome driver (x2). It has a Fs of approx. 390Hz and I want to crossover to the woofer around that point (around 350Hz). The woofer is an 8" size (x4). I chose the silk dome midrange for its high detail, dispersion and output. Would the Fs of 390Hz be an issue you think? I crossed it over at approx. 1,700Hz with a chosen tweeter on the highpass side as per your numerous recommendations regarding the ideal tweeter crossover point (the lower the better).
@@kenthomas1613 No man's land for a crossover is in the heart of the vocal region. You never want to slit a signal there to dissimilar drivers are add a phase shift in that region. That region is 300Hz to 500Hz. It is more ideal to get below 200Hz or above 800Hz.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks!! Advice taken. Changed the midrange to a nice 6" paper cone. 250Hz to 1,700Hz. Silk dome tweeter and paper cone woofers.
I use a JBL 15" K140 woofer in a home built cabinet with only 10mm/0.39" thick plywood. But the cone does not move enough to be visible so is thick walls really necessary here?
Also, I was blown away by ATCs bigger speaker with the famous Dome midrange. But after getting compression drivers and horns I am not so impressed anymore. The ATC tweeter is kind of screechy compared to RAAL ribbon tweeters. But so is the top of the line dome tweeters I have listened to as well.
What model are these? Not stated in the title.
What model are they Donnie, thank you. Love your videos. Keep up the good work.
Sorry Dannie, fat fingered the keyboard.
Model is SCM 19. They are very good speakers, and with a quality sub or 2, world class sound with good associated gear.
why are the fr graphs cut off below 200hz?
Accurately measuring them lower than that will require an anechoic chamber.
Please check out Quad S2... Great speaker for the price.
hi danny , a question, is a smoothing factor 1/3 oktave standard ?
you sir are the awesomest some biscuit ever!!!!!!
By bringing up the tweeter response these things will be flatter than my ex-GF and as flat as the non-spherical earth NOT flying thru a vacuum
Danny, thanks for all your very interesting videos 🙏👍
Now that you’ve exposed the ATCs it would be really great to get your opinion on the Harbeths… maybe the 30s series? Can’t wait for that one! 😎
I’d definitely consider doing that if I was living a little closer to you! Hopefully someone from your side of the pond may be willing to send a pair in 🤞
@@dannyrichie9743 Heh heh heh....maybe someone will, now that I have my X-LS Encores fully run in. 😉
@joel_hifi: Bingo.
I wish he had a website forum.
Once I had an idea, store will let you try before you buy.
Good open one up and to see. What this they poured dark epoxy over the x over.
I for got who AE 1
Pro a.c. tablet
@@stephenscharf6293 Excellent 😁👍
4:13 you know our rooms in Europe are smaller ??? haha what was that about
On average, yes they are.
I've tried to order a kit from you but your site only accepts PayPal. I don't use PayPal. Any other alternatives like Visa/Mastercard?
You can pay with a Visa or MasterCard without a problem. You don’t need a PayPal account in order to place an order.
ATCs best speakers are active.
This is an interesting point, but one where I have never had a clear answer from anyone including ATC. If their best speakers are all active, then why do they even make passive speakers? Why would they go to the trouble to build amplifiers? I understand that yes, an active speaker can match one or more amps to optimize each driver blah blah blah. But those amps are still made to a price point which is limited by what the market will support. If someone like Nelson Pass built amps and crossovers specifically matched to an ATC passive speaker, why would that really be any worse? Why couldn't it be even better??
no, they aren't at all ... I tried Accuphase pre/power class A + pair Rel T9i with SCM 100 passive much better than scm100 asl pro active ... so, nothing's absolute, but matter of tastes ... just my opinion, buddies...
Which model was this?
They look like the SCM 19s. Maybe V2 considering when the video was made.
I had the ATC SCM 40's, the 19's and the 11's. Build quality overall was not good - especially on the cabinets. The grills were poorly matched and did not sit right. I started with the 11's but found the bass lacking so then went to the 40's, and then the 19's. I did not like the 19's and 40's at all and was sorry I hadn't kept the 11's and bought a sub-woofer. Overall I liked the crisp sound of the ATC speakers but they were too clinical for me. And given the poor build quality, overpriced.
I've heard you rant about sandcast res. Are they really that bad, and why??
Yes, they do tend to degrade the sound a bit.
All the reviews from this company say the speakers can be improved by buying their products. Is this therefore a marketing exercise to get sales or a genuine review ?
Which ATC model are these?
SCM19
@@jules153 SCM 19 V2
Your suggesting there's something to " FIX ".. THE TWEETER ROLL OFF IS IN ATCS DESIGN TO VOICE ETHE SPEAKER FOR HOME USE . FFS
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