The Future of International Trains in the Netherlands
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2024
- This past year saw so many news articles about different companies aspiring to offer international rail service to and from the Netherlands. Existing companies like NS, Eurostar, and European Sleeper, but also a whole host of new companies like Arriva, Heuro, GoVolta, and Flixtrain. This video explains why there was a sudden rush to announce new international connections, and then provides a comprehensive list of all current and proposed services.
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0:00 Introduction
1:08 Some Context: The Netherlands
2:02 Issues with awarding contracts
4:00 NS: Current
4:25 NS: Intercity Direct (Current)
4:45 NS: Eurostar (Current)
5:13 NS: ICE and IC Berlin (Current)
5:41 NS: nightjet (Current)
6:00 European Sleeper (Current)
6:21 Regional Trains (Current)
6:32 NS: Intercity Direct (Future)
7:25 NS: Eurostar (Future)
7:58 NS ICNG to Germany
8:09 NS: ICE and IC Berlin (Future)
8:41 New Train to Copenhagen
9:11 European Sleeper (Future)
9:45 GoVolta (Future)
10:43 Arriva RE18 (Future)
11:04 Bentheimer Eisenbahn (Future)
11:29 Start Dusseldorf - Eindhoven
11:44 Extension of German Regional Trains to Zwolle
12:02 Qbuzz High Speed Trains (Future)
12:59 Arriva High Speed Trains (Future)
13:33 Heuro High Speed Trains (Future)
14:17 FlixTrain (Future)
14:42 Final Thoughts - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Now we just need a unified booking system which tailors all connections between every possible location in the EU (and some other, i.e, the UK and Switzerland).
Not just tailoring long distance but the whole mobility chain. From International trains all the way down to rental bikes for the last mile.
This right here ^^
@@Thom-TRAwe're halfway there with the German timetable resource, just need to hook up the accounting systems, nbd 😉 \m/
You can already (Partially) do this on DB's website
This was basically possible 50 years ago, you could basically go into any European train station and get a ticket to any other European train station, including trips between the Western and Eastern blocks of Europe! My dad could even leave his bike in Stockholm and pick it up on arrival in Yugoslavia or Greece! Add this to a long list of things that has been destroyed by deregulation and privatization.
@@officialmcdeathoh god, don’t let germany develop it otherwise everyone’ll need their birth certificate and 3 witnesses to correctly fill out the forms needed to determine the rider’s gender on the ticket
How much information can Thom pack into 16 minutes? Wow, cool. I wish we had half as many intercity train operators in the USA.
This much, apparently!
Yes I know it's amazing
Yes ;) . Dutch equivalent of RM Transit channel.
Competition drove Renfe to improve so much in such a short time, and the Frecciarosa is already prompting change from SNCF. Predict the same in the Netherlands.
I’m definitely hoping so
Renfe was pissed off big times lol
yeah there needs to be a Schengen Train Tickets app, as soon as you have to switch trains on international services it get complicated.
Another benefit of the new ICE L coaches on the Intercity Berlijn is that the train will be able to run at 230 km/h between Hanover and Berlin since it uses the high speed line for that segment. Currently trains are limited to 200 km/h due to the top speed of the consist.
It amazes me those old coaches can even make it to 200 😂
@@Thom-TRA A bit but hey, European railways did cook more than you'd think. I think part of the shock must be the fact that the vast majority of trains in the Netherlands are limited to just 140km/h because of the infrastructure. For the locomotive hauled trains its a measily 100km/h. Like the Dutch government needs to get their act together and make it so trains can run faster. Especially on the main lines to the different cities and on international corridors. Preferably at least 200km/h.
@@Thom-TRA To be fair, 200 km/h fast trains are kind of an older idea to the point where even steam trains were managed to run at such relatively high speeds (e.g. Mallard, DRG Class 05), though they only took really off in the 1960s where the technology became mature enough (such as the Shinkansen for electric traction) for regular operations and many lines in Europe were upgraded to support 200 km/h operation (and IIRC, the oldest IC1 rolling stock in Germany are almost 70 years old). This, and motorless coaches are quite durable with regular maintenance.
Higher speed is cool and all but you have to see that faster trains significantly reduce a lines capacity. You will have much more delays once one of those trains has any type of delay because you will have a lot of conflicts between fast and slow trains the closer in speed fast and slow trains are the more trains you can operate on that line. Just look at the Hamburg Hannover Line and how much conflicts between fast and slow trains there are daily. Of course running the trains slower is not really a solution. Building a dedicated line for the high speed trains would be one.
@@jonkess2768 This is not a problem on most of that line because regional and intercity trains (most of which are ICEs so they're faster than 200 km/h already) are separated and the only trains are irregular freight trains on the intercity tracks which can run on the gaps between the schedules (in part because only these tracks are electrified whereas the regional tracks are not).
Hamburg-Hannover OTOH is upgraded to 200 km/h and doubletracked but also contain quite a few regional stops with few to no passing loops (i.e. no timed overtakes).
Not that I disagree that it needs a new HSL, it's just it's a different situation from Oebisfelde-Spandau.
Its so nice that you pointed out the DSB service that'll be coming in the future. When the Fehmarn tunnel opens in 2029-2030, it'll reduce the journey times by an additional 2 hours to 7.5. At that point, and even more so if speed upgrades between Bad Bentheim and Amsterdam are put on the table in the Netherlands, it could potentially mean an upgrade to 2 trains per day, allowed by the shorter journey times.
The upcoming years will also be really exciting for the railways in Denmark like you hinted at. Of course we're getting the Ceske Drahy train from Prague extended to Copenhagen and vice versa, along with getting the Amsterdam train from DSB. Additionally a direct service from Copenhagen to Oslo in Norway has been put forward for 2027-28, though it is unclear who would run this train and with what equipment. The current bets are either on DSB's talgo trains or SJ's Zefiro Express EMU's. DSB has ordered 16 train consists from Talgo but as of now its unclear how they'll all be allocated.
On a similar note DB expanded their order of ICE-L Talgo trains to 79 consists, including announcing intentions to use these trains on services to Copenhagen in that bunch once the Fehmarn tunnel line is finished (so 2030 onwards). Info is very limited but DSB and DB are already close partners. My main assumption for this is that DB might end up taking on some express trains from Copenhagen to Hamburg and then continue those trains to relevant destinations in Germany. The 2 main contenders for this are Berlin and Cologne. Copenhagen to Berlin is a very highly requested route for both leisure and business travel and people have been begging for direct trains ever since the previous ones got shafted. Plus with Germany imposing a new minimum speed of 230km/h for intercity trains on the Hamburg to Berlin line, DSB's trains with their just 200km/h locomotives won't cut it compared to DB's or CD's locomotives which go 230km/h. At a travel time of just 4.5 hours once the Fehmarn tunnel is finished, that would even make the journey somewhat competitive with flying. And Cologne is another popular destination for business travel and a notable railway hub for western Europe. Time will tell how this pans out. But this part is mostly speculation.
And on the open access side things get interesting. Snälltåget, a Swedish open access operator that already runs night trains between Malmö and Berlin has put forward plans to run 2 day trains per day between Malmö and Hamburg from 2025, and 3 trains per day domestically in Denmark from Copenhagen and or Helsingør to Aarhus from 2027, right as the line to Aarhus, Denmark's 2nd largest city gets fully electrified.
SJ has also publically expressed interest in running open access within Denmark, namely between Copenhagen and Aarhus as well, and have even been upgrading their X2000 trains to X2U's which are all certified to run in Denmark, along with basing their whole order of 250km/h Zefiro Express trains around Danish specifications! SJ actually tried once to start running open access in Denmark almost 14 years ago but failed. Partially because they could only go to Odense and only ran once per day. Copenhagen to Aarhus is the most competitive travel route in the country for both trains and buses so all eyes are on it once electrification is done.
And of course we have GoVolta who also plan to launch a train from Amsterdam to Copenhagen once per day starting in 2025. Flywise, who owns GreenCityTrip and GoVolta already announced they're partnering with Train Charter Services, a Dutch company, and they recently bought a bunch of NS' old ICr coaches, so far at least 45 have been confirmed, with more likely on the way that are undisclosed as they get replaced by ICNG's. The ICr's are already certified to run in basically all of Europe already. Plus they also bought 14 old restaurant cars from Deutsche Bahn so it all fits together. And GoVolta did announce they'll operate like a low cost airline with base fares for the full length as low as 10 euros, but highly dynamic pricing and upcharges like baggage allowance and seat reservations. Though the Restaurant cars will serve to off set some of this and make it more attractive to passengers, especially given the slow and heavily padded schedules. I mean their Copenhagen route would take 11 hours compared to DSB's 9.5.
I also know Flixtrain has proposed some routes a few times like Copenhagen to Uppsala but so far nothing has come out of any Flixtrain plans within Denmark.
I somehow missed that GoVolta wants to go to Denmark! Lots of exciting upgrades indeed. That Fehmarn tunnel cannot come soon enough.
@@Thom-TRA I definitely get how you missed it. GoVolta has 5 services planned for now but 3 of them will start in 2024. The Amsterdam-Berlin service will start as the first one on April 1st if everything goes according to plan, followed by the Paris and Basel trains. And then in 2025 the Copenhagen and Munich trains will be launched, and since those arent mentioned in all articles they're a little harder to come by. GoVolta has big ambitions. For the first 5 services they'll need 10 trains total, one in each direction, but they've stated they want to launch as many as 20 different long distance rail services across Europe that dont even need to serve the Netherlands. They just wanna start with their Amsterdam based operations for now. It seems like they'll basically be a longer and slightly higher end Flixtrain, perfect for going long distances across the continent on a bare bones budget.
@@Thom-TRA Yeah. Also I have a bit of an update on the Copenhagen to Oslo service. It seems like the current idea is for SJ to run 3 trains per day on their own between Copenhagen and Oslo, with DSB running 1 train per day with their Talgos. Plus there are talks of an overnight service, though no current rolling stock available. None of this is set in stone as of yet, just the current plans. But the Norwegian authorities are also now ordering their new FLIRTnex trains from Stadler, which are 200km/h EMU's designed for both daytime and overnight long distance trains. These will aslo be capable of running under Danish voltage. The first ones will be delivered in 2027 for the Oslo-Bergen line, but if the order is expanded and or theres room in allocation then maybe some of those trains could be used on a Copenhagen-Oslo service, both during the day and overnight.
Too long.
@@henkoosterink8744 Train ride too long or comment too long? In the latter case, please try reading a book. It will make your life better to be able to read longer texts.
Let's be realistic, we can't have everything, the real world is made of trade-offs. There are a lot of benefits in having an open market for long distance rail travel. All these private operators competing and offering different products gives the consumer a lot more choice and better prices. But this means that integrating tickets becomes way more complicated. The idea of tickets being in valid in services from other operators is quite challenging in this scenario.
It is very interesting that DSB wants to go to the Netherlands too.
A Czech train to Denmark existed in the past with an EuroCity Praha to Aarhus.
An excellent report Thom.
I was hoping that the Liége/Luik/Lüttich to Aix-la-Chapelle/Aken/Aachen RE18 service via Maastricht would have started in December 2023, however there has been a delay in upgrading the Arriva rolling stock to conform to Belgian safety standards. The current news is that the service will start in Q3/2024. Let's hope so!
It's also encouraging to know that the rolling stock has been adapted to conform with the three different rail power systems in BE, NL and DE.
Geweldig filmpje! Ik heb er echt van genoten. Thank you for presenting so much information within this short film.
Graag gedaan!
Very nice summary!
You have probably left out the absolute shame that is the dream of a direct Groningen - Bremen train, and were right to do so. It is a shame.
As you say, I cannot wait to see the ETR 1000 on the tracks here. At some point I think we will realise that the Rhijnspoorweg needs to be quadrupled and brought to 200 km/h (if not a fully seperate line, if I dare take those tabooed words in my mouth...)
And of course, we will have to see how the Lelylijn can impact international services (combined with the farce of the wunderline)
This is a really awesome video about really awesome trains that will be coming to the Netherlands in the future. I wish there were this many different trains to look forward to in the United States, I hope you and Lindsey are able to ride each and every train and give a report especially the Talgo!!!
Bedankt om dit allemaal op een rijtje te zetten. Een deel van de plannen had ik ergens gelezen, maar erg fijn om het op een rijtje te zien!
Dat hoopte ik, dat het handig zou zijn!
We need more international trains in the Netherlands!
It's so exciting to see all these developments in passenger rail in Europe. I dream this could be the case in North America someday. I think there's such a huge untapped market and demand for high-speed rail, high-frequency conventional intercity and regional rail and Euro-style night trains with options for different group sizes and budgets ranging from compartments to couchettes and capules. People are looking for alternatives to flying and driving.
If we really want to green our transportation system in North America, trains, along with having great coordinated local transit connections and bike and pedestrian friendly areas centered around stations are really the way to go from less or even no emissions to smarter development paterns. It's far past time to get moving on this and while we're lets get the overhead catenary system strung up instead of getting caught up on things like batteries and hydrogen. And how cool would it be to ride a Frecciorossa 1000 on the NEC or any other corridor for that matter.
Watched all 16 minutes to the end, absolutely loved it!! You broke the information down in a really nice manner, and I hope you get many more subscribers!
Thanks, I really appreciate it!
Very great video! I was really looking for a summary of all that is yet to come and this is exactly what I wanted.
Personally, I'm very happy with the announcement of the train from and to Copenhagen.
The Copenhagen train is long overdue, especially since it will also serve Hamburg.
At least a train to Hamburg would be nice... I think at the moment it is not possible because the train would need to make a weird turn in Osnabrück (a bi-directional set would be needed to complete the turn).
Can’t emphasize your last point enough! There’s so much work to do to improve the ticketing experience for frequent users and tourists alike.
Great stuff, as always, Thom!
Thanks!
This is very interesting great video as always i watch every video as soon as it comes out
I appreciate that! Thanks for always commenting too
Nice video!
Thanks!
great! like this information very much!
Glad it was helpful!
Great, enjoyed this video
It is interesting to hear about all the plans for new train services in the Netherlands and surrounding countries. As an American, I'm jealous of the great train service there! Hourly service? Most of our suburban lines in this country don't even have that. oh well! Great reporting, by the way. I hope at least some of those plans come true.
All the domestic trains in the Netherlands run every 30 minutes. Some tracks are so busy that 10 trains pass every hour in each direction
@@williamhoogendijk2536 This is incorrect: Friesland, Groningen, Limburg and Zeeland have some 1/h services. But nearly all main network trains run every 30 minutes indeed. Only 9 of the ~400 stations see only 1 train per direction stopping in them per hour.
But yeah the vast majority of travel happens on much more busy lines, and is very tightly scheduled.
@@mennoltvanalten7260 In Zeeland we do have a 30 minutes service if you live in the ''bigger'' cities. (Rozendaal, Bergen op Zoom, Goes Middelburg and Flushing) only for the villages in between its a hourly service. But that is similar in more areas outside of the Randstad corridor.
Lots of exciting plans! I hope at least some of them get put into action, because it's clear that it's very much needed
Bedankt Jonathan!
Awesome video
Some of the famous people, in blue shirt? 😅 Nice catch man! Btw new subscribers here, loving your content so far, especially here when you show the map of the routes, so I can easily digest . keep it up!
I am especially excited about the new intercity line proposed between cities other than Amsterdam and Rotterdam. It’s about time the north-east and south of the country get good connections too
I enjoyed that video👍👍
I'm glad!
Like it and if you want to use the major German stations these will be something like Mönchengladbach🇩🇪 for Venlo🇳🇱 followed by Duisburg Hbf🇩🇪 the starting point of Hollandstrecke Duisburg Oberhausen Emmerich am Rhein Zevenaar Arnhem Utrecht Amsterdam🇳🇱 Bad Bentheim🇩🇪 for Hanover and Amsterdam🇳🇱 Northern Netherlands to the German city of Hamburg🇩🇪 it's Bad Nieuwschans/Groningen🇳🇱 via Leer(Ostf) Oldenburg & Bremen Hbf although the actual terminal is the ferry at Puttgarden. Lastly Heerlen🇳🇱 for Aachen Hbf🇩🇪 which itself is on Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Aachen which means a direct train Köln Hbf Maastricht needs PZB LZB ATB equipped. In the future HSR tracks can be built on some of them. 8:34 in Germany the locomotive for that one is called DB Baureihe 105 ICE3 Neo DB Baureihe 408. If you knew some of the German railroading terms Baureihe🇩🇪🇦🇹 = locomotive class🇬🇧. Speaking of the route to Eindhoven from Düsseldorf it goes even further to Hamm Hbf via the Rhein Ruhr Osten line Wuppertal Steinbeck Ennepetal Hagen Hbf commuter train VRR S8 Wuppertal Steinbeck Gevelsberg Hagen Hbf
Eindhoven - Düsseldorf right now is easy too, just need a simple transfer at venlo.
@szymex22 Thanks and the Eindhoven to Venlo line is the International section of Rhein-Ruhr Osten Venlo Mönchengladbach Neuss Düsseldorf Wuppertal Steinbeck Ennepetal/Gevelsberg Hagen Hbf railway line.
Thanks for posting. Part of the plans you describe mainly are some minor improvements on the existing system. Another part just are dreams of (future) entrepreneurs. The latter I do not take seriously until they really achieve something.
What I'm waiting for is improvement of the current system. Connections between trains are impossible because of delays, so you have to "build in" extra time. But unfortunately the ticketing systems (of which there are far to many, as you allready mentioned) can not cope with that, forcing you to by multiple tickets for one journey, leading to a higher price.
I wouldn’t write off the entrepreneur’s dreams just yet! European Sleeper and Green City Trip were just dreams once too.
But I agree the Heuro plans sound overly ambitious.
@@Thom-TRA fair enough!
Thank you so much for this excellent video Thom. Like you I'm equally excited and impatient for both NS and Eurostar to actually have some real competition and to have to work to earn the favor of the customers out there. Also, I would definitely be on one of the first Frecciarossa's to grace this fun little country 😀.
Also yes, a Dutch language version would be really appreciated as well in order to distribute further.
I’d love to see a bright orange Frecciarossa to mark the occasion!
@@Thom-TRA oh hell yeah 💪
The problem I see with most of these new competitors, at least here in Germany, they don’t really provide a benefit as a user. A big exception are the night services since DB stopped running them a couple years ago.
1) they only compete on the highest demand routes which are already at capacity. So they don’t actually provide additional service, they just replace timeslots.
2) while this is a solvable problem, it’s currently not possible to book a ticket for a combined journey of DB+Flixtrain or DB+Westbahn. So you need to buy separate tickets and if you miss your connection you’re not eligible for compensation and depending on your ticket can’t even take a later train (in case of Flixtrain that next train could be one or two days from now anyways). It’s basically as if you miss a plane because of a delayed train. Now, in theory the companies could reach an agreement like DB has with ÖBB, SBB, NS, etc. where they do sell combined tickets. But in practice DB has little incentive to do so, because they run competing services. So until some EU regulation forces them to change something about this, the private services are basically useless for anyone not traveling end-to-end on one operator.
3) if DB or NS lose money it’s a burden on the tax payer, since they are owned by the respective governments. If they have to lower prices on high demand routes and/or run less of the high-profit routes they’ll have even less money to serve the less profitable routes and either need to cut services or receive even larger subsidies while private companies just don’t run anything that’s not profitable.
There are plenty of holes in your argument, but the most obvious is point 3. That’s nonsense. In the past few years, NS went from paying the government €80 million a year to now receiving €13 million in subsidies. All while the tickets have been getting more expensive and there has been no competition.
These monopolistic companies have no incentive to do things more efficiently or offer better services, since the government will pay anyways. But what you see in Italy, Spain, and France is that competition forces the incumbent to improve the quality of service. And that increases demand for rail as a whole.
The biggest burden to taxpayers and passengers is to continue to grant NS their monopoly.
A train connection to Denmark seems really neat. I remember years ago when there was a City Nightline all the way to Moscow. I suppose it wasn't profitable enough to keep up.
DB cancelled all their city night line services around 2015. Just a few short years later, night trains became all the rage again.
Heuro has actually been in talks with train manufacturers like Alstom, Siemens and Hitachi. They said that Hitachi has proposed the Zefiro V300. I believe that the trains from the other manufacturers are: Alstom Avelia Stream and the Siemens Velaro classic MS.
Oh yeah the Avelia Stream is what was previously known as the Zefiro Express right? Aka what the Swedish Railways SJ are getting.
@@drdewott9154 It is the Bombardier Zefiro V200 combined with the Alstom Avelia Pendolino
Looks like there might be 6 of the 7 E300 shorter sets stored which someone could use.
Great to see so many developments being planned by operators. But the development of infrastructure should also be considered. Currently the network is very congested, in some regions actually over capacity. The line towards Groningen would not be able to handle more traffic during the day because of the Zwolle - Meppel bottleneck. Also, except for the high speed line, the lines weren’t built for heavy high speed trains. In combination with the current issues of ground instability this wouldn’t allow for more and heavier trains.
It would also be fair to mention that many of the problems that occur with ns are caused by infrastructural issues that are out of their hands, any other operator will have to deal with the same problems. Given the current backlog of ProRail in maintenance and their staffing problem, realizing any of this will be a huge challenge.
Great job, Thom, encyclopedic in fact !
Great video! Would love to see one of these for Denmark!
Can't wait for the Fehmarn belt tunnel to be finished, Copenhagen is so much more accessible then.
In the late 1980s, I took a direct train from Eindhoven to Cologne (Köln). There used to be more international trains in the past, but my perception is that European operators are more focussed on their own short-term interest than that of the passengers.
Privatisation in the 1990’s probably didn’t help.
@@martijnwo4840 Probably. I'm all for efficiency (that train to Germany wasn't exactly filled to capacity). But railways are still being run as national monopolies. Although the EU is taking an active role in breaking those monopolies, but it's very slow. 30 years on, and taking an international train is still far too difficult.
They also cancelled DB CityNightLine night trains which also resulted in the removal of the Warsaw-Köln night train
The international tariffs are a complete mess and you have to choose between no flexibility or very high price
@@SeverityOne It's basically this strive to privatize and break up the natural monopolies of the railways that has made it so difficult to travel internationally in Europe. Yes, the national rail operators had monopolies, but they cooperated on cross-border trains for the benefit of both (or multiple) countries. There were even single rail cars that e.g. went all the way from Stockholm to Paris, being shunted between different longer trains at a few locations along the way by the different national railway companies.
It used to be possible to go in to a ticket office in Stockholm, Sweden and get a ticket to Ljubljana, in Yugoslavia! It was even possible to transfer larger items like bikes between such far away places, going through multiple countries along the way.
@@dijikstra8 But it was never easy. Getting the ticket to Cologne involved going to the international travel office, when they still had one in Eindhoven. Although this was in 1989, and memory may be failing me after all that time. What I do know is that there was this difficult, huge ticket.
Nowadays, you see the Dutch and German governments and state operators going to lengths to avoid competition on the national rail system. Rather than having some international service, they're now actively frustrating it. The connection between Maastricht and Lanaken? Or between Weert and Neerpelt, which was actually in the government coalition agreement? Nada.
Given that the next government will be even less inclined to cooperate on an international level, I don't see an awful lot of improvement for consumers coming.
I really hope that the Friesenbrucke by Weener gets fixed soon and that the the line from Groningen to Leer will get electrified. As someone from the north of the Netherlands, I would much more appreciate a train going from Groningen to Hamburg or perhaps even Copenhagen, instead of trains going from Groningen to Paris or London.
It’s crazy how long the reconstruction is taking. They really should electrify.
Along with the reconstruction of the bridge they are also improving the line a bit. The speeds will go up and the travel time Groningen to Bremen will reduce from 2:43 to 2:11! Its not the best but at least some improvements are being made...
@thomasvanbelle4311 Unfortunately, the "Wunderlinie" won't be made in the next 10 years at least because the main station in Groningen is being renovated right now, and there won't be space for another platform for German high speed trains.
Maybe in like 2040, if the the Lelylijn would be built as well (which is not very likely) we could have ICE's going from Amsterdam to Hamburg over Groningen, but that is unfortunately just wishful thinking.
@@wietzevanderwijk3169 That is very wishful thinking indeed. DB has shown no interest at all in this idea. Furthermore the existing lines Amsterdam - Osnabrück - Hamburg are geographically about the same distance and serve more people. Given the state of the current line Groningen - Leer (one track non electrified), I'd be happy if the regional train to Leer got extended to Bremen. So one can catch an ICE train to Hamburg/Berlin/Hannover from there.
@@Thom-TRAwhy didn't you mentioned it in the video?
Very interested to see how Heuro turns out; Eurostar seems very entrenched right now. They'll have to handle EU/UK immigration as well, which creates some slight potential for difficulties and delays compared to a service running entirely in the Schengen. But perhaps even the threat of competition will make Eurostar get better.
And as a very long term project, one can hope for a Gent-Zelzate-Terneuzen service, and a connection of the Dutch network to the Begian network via Weert.
Weert is in the works. A decision has sadly not been taken yet, but I am positive it will happen sooner rather than later. For Gent - Terneuzen, it is more of long term project, although the renovation will pave the way.
the funny thing is for the Gent - Zelzate-Terneuzen service at least for cargo at first only askes for a relative short gap to be build in between Sluiskil and Zelzate. that can be next to the N62/R4 (both are the same road)
Okay, not what I expected. I knew about the merger of Eurostar and Thalys but the lack of service improvements from their side certainly was a surprise. Likewise, it's also interesting to see the new operators (HEURO especially) as well as the regional services which honestly aren't talked to so often about.
I'm also hoping the added service incentivises Germany to upgrade some existing lines (e.g. Duisburg-Arnhem) and build new HSL (Hannover-Osnabrück-Enschede) for capacity reasons. They really are long overdue.
Duisburg - Arnhem is currently under construction. Hannover - Osnabrück - Hengelo is not really worth it at the moment (why should Germany invest in this high speed line as long as the trains in the Netherlands are also running 140kmh max).
Nice video, but you only talked about companies and rolling stock. Also of note for international travel is the Lelylijn, a proposed 200km/h line going directly from Lelystad to Groningen. This would benefit some of the routes you mentioned and cut down travel time between Copenhagen and Amsterdam.
The Lelylijn is just an idea, nothing more at this point. And even if built, it will never have a major international role. There really is no practical reason to route international trains via Groningen. The area between Groningen and Bremen is not densely populated enough.
And even if all of that was built and upgraded, we still would be waaaaaay past 2030.
When I think of tangible international rail projects, the Lelylijn does not come to mind.
Excellent summary. It's encouraging to see all these improvements, but we have a long way to go. Open access makes sense to me for long distance and international routes. Hopefully it will create healthy competition and innovation, but we also need much better infrastructure. Integrated ticketing as you said is one thing. I also think the Netherlands needs another 1 or 2 high speed lines going East from Amsterdam to either Hamburg or Cologne (or ideally both), to create a high speed corridor into the rest of Europe.
Sadly after the debacles constructing the first high speed line and the Betuwe line I doubt there will ever be the political will to construct something new
@@Thom-TRA Such a shame because environmentally, we really need more high speed lines to take people away from short haul air travel
@@mdhazeldine You might not know it, but in the 80s NS did have plans (Rail 21) for two more high speed lines: the 'Zuiderzeelijn' Amsterdam - Lelystad - Heerenveen - Groningen and 'HSL Oost' Amsterdam - Utrecht - Arnhem - Zevenaar (border with Germany).
@@djdewaal289 I didn't know that, but I'm not surprised. I'm guessing either funds weren't there or there was too much opposition from local residents?
@@mdhazeldine a certain EU directive in the early 90s demanding a split between the operator and the track 'owner'. Also they did make their measures expensive af by rebuilding/expanding infrastructure but they still realised large parts of it by 2010.
In case you want to know more about it: Rail 21
9:00 the czech railways will also use the brand new ComfortJet sets (improved, longer railjets). I'm really excited for this new connection.
Me too. It’s gonna be a long one!
Great video sir, if you want to talk about high ticket prices look at the uk rail system and not just the advance fares!
Yeah I’d love to go there and film all over but I’ve had no luck with the lottery up until now…
Hey Thom, that is a very exciting video. Living near station Eygelshoven Markt i am curious when the RE18 will be going from Luik to Aachen via Maastricht. A few years ago there were plans of a direct IC train from Eindhoven to Aachen. Do you know if that plan is still existing? Groeten, Ralf
I don’t think it will happen soon to be honest. I think it would be better if the NS train would go all the way to Köln
I took the IC service between Amsterdam and Berlin a couple of years ago and it was dreadful, in large part thanks to Deutsche Bahn, would love to see this service get some open access competition
I literally avoided it once by taking an ICE to Duisburg and transferring there
What’s so bad about it? It’s just a normal loco hauled service with standard wagons
@@szymex22 the trains are great. The reliability, not so much. I’ve been on it before where it had a 3 hour and 25 minute delay.
Excellent mate, really well explained and some things i didnt even know were on the cards 😂 🚆❤
Hopefully I’ve inspired some future trips hehe
You’re absolutely right about ticketing integration. Good service is a prerequisite, but I fear it’ll be underutilised if actually planning and taking your trip are a confusing nightmare.
Oh wow, I hadn't heard of this before. It's going to be interesting to see ProRail remove the bumper that was installed at Enschede station like 15 years ago so that the German railway network is physically connected again to the Dutch one in the passable sense. (Or did they remove it already? I haven't needed a train in a while...)
I look forward to the variety, but if it comes at a cost of more chaos with ticketing, I'm not sure I want it. I avoid switching to regional operators as it is because of the fuss and of the higher fees that are associated with them when they are a viable alternative route, but if that can be avoided, that would be really cool.
A note about the Danish Talgo trains.. Its already been delayed though the first Talgo set has arrived it will not enter service untill 2025 ish
Hey, I wanted to make a correction on what you said at 4:31. The trains aren't high speed just because they use the HSL, but they actually go faster on this rail.
The older train models that use the TRAXX locomotives reach speeds of up to 200km/h on the HSL.
I think they wouldve considered using their ICNG trains if it weren't able to reach those speeds since they also use those on the same tracks.
How hard is it to Google before you comment? It’s impressive how every single part of your comment is wrong.
The top speed for TRAXX+ICR is 160km/h. And they are literally putting ICNG on the intercity to Brussels in April, so it can go faster.
You forgot a part. Arriva should have it's bridge restored between Groningen and Leer. As far as I read they are making the bridge 2 tracks wide and want to extend it to Bremen...
But that train is already international, running to Weener. And there are no official plans to extend it to Bremen.
Interesting how the rail privatization model has worked well on the continent, but has been an abject failure in the UK with more and more UK routes reverting to state ownership. Though to be fair the UK model was mostly a state enforced monopoly with little room for competition on the same route. Good luck ever getting competition on the channel tunnel routes, EuroStar has a lot of powerful backers who will go out of their way to protect the monopoly. Their monopoly is so powerful UK operator SouthEastern wasn't even allowed to cross the tunnel with their class 395s, which are compatible with french power and signaling (HS1 is basically an LGV track built in the UK) and would've been fine for runs across the channel to Calais.
It would be an interesting video topic to see what the differences are in privatization schemes, why one worked and the other didn’t. Perhaps something for the summer when I have time to research.
Excellent presentation.
It would be so cool to see double decker and/or european trains in st pancras, ive always wanted to see a TGV in London.
I don’t actually know if that would fit in the tunnel
Happened last year and we had dB ice unit in 2010
@@Thom-TRAthe Channel Tunnel and HS1 are built to the European Loading gauge, so a Double Decker train can fit, so long as it stays on HS1
Out of curiosity is the bypassing of Haarlem, Leiden, Den Haag HS and Schiedam by the Intercity Direct a benefit to these stations as far as capacity is concerned for their Amsterdam or Rotterdam connections?
You missed the reopening regional train from Groningen to Bremen, when they finaly open the Emsbridge again
There will be no regional train to Bremen. It is only going as far as Leer. Which is no change from the situation compared to before the bridge was destroyed.
The only way prices are kept low is by privatization. But it would make way more sense if the trains would be leased to the private companies by the government. This way you don’t get operators sending Stadler Flirt on 4H IC run’s.
I'm kind of scared what the future might bring for rail travel in Belgium, everyone and their aunt wants to run trains between either Amsterdam and Paris, or Amsterdam and London. All of which would travel on L25 in Belgium and would get priority compared to domestic services by law. There is a need for extra services between Antwerp and Brussels, yet now already we can see that some hourly trains had to be rerouted to make way for an international train, skipping Mechelen and Brussels Central and Midi. There is not the required capacity to run both these new trains and the current schedule, let alone the expanded schedule we'll need in the future...
I was going to say that. And also through the Noord-Zuid verbinding and the line 96 from Brussels to Hal, that are equally saturated. Line 25N between Mechelen and Schaerbeek could provide some additional capacity, but not until the works in Mechelen are complete, and that will still take years...
So what happened to the direct service from Den Haag CS to Koln and beyond (every hour) and would you not prefer to take the beautiful Etoile Du Nord TEE train with the stainless steel chrome coaches than the Eurostar from Amsterdam CS to Paris Nord? Is there still a Roosendaal to Oostende every hour? I may be talking about an era before they even opened the station at Duivendrecht but they were seriously good connections/
One other thing about Trenitalia, even tho it does not touch the Netherlands: Trenitalia is planning for early 2025 a high speed connection Milano - Berlin, but not with qbuzz, with the actual company
Nice video. I'd like to hire you as a tour guide, show me what all you are talking about. We will hop on a train, then you can explain how we got there. (Wherever 'there' is)
I’m so down
We shouldn't also forget that the technical challenges relating to different voltage systems in each country have been resolved.
If we look at the planned Arriva train route between BE, NL and DE, the rolling stock will accommodate 3kV DC in BE, 1.5kV DC in NL and 15kV AC in DE. No mean feat.
But stock that can handle multiple voltages is exponentially more expensive to buy, which still makes it a barrier
@@Thom-TRA A barrier that is being overcome thanks to EU funding and guidance. I guess we should think ourselves lucky that most of Europe uses the 1,435 mm standard gauge otherwise that would be another hurdle to overcome.
You didn't mention it but works just started to extend and revitalise the route Groningen - Bremen (Wiederline) which will connect the North of the Netherlands to Germany and access to the Scandinavian routes!
That news only dropped today. The Wiederline will be closed for the 10 months, so service to Leer can be restored. There won’t be any trains to Bremen or points beyond.
I just went along when I saw on first seconds Czech Republic talking guy about Netherlands
What?
@@Thom-TRA first seconds of video are from Czech Republic
@@TvrdakTom no, they are from Slovakia
Yes
I really hope we will see those ETR1000 trains!
Me too!
And i thougth they would make the ETR 700s available... I'm joking 😂 I hope every nation can be connected by rail and be simple to buy tickets and know the time table more easily
Ik zou graag ook een Nederlandse versie bekijken! Ik merk dat ik wat minder Nederlands hoor sinds ik naar Canada ben verhuisd...
Het zou echt hilarisch zijn als Lage Zwaluwe een internationaal station zou worden. Elke keer dat ik daar naartoe ben geweest waren er meer treinspotters dan echte passagiers.
Wereldstad LZ!
@@Thom-TRA🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
beetje Calais-Fréthun vibes maar dan zonder een Eurotunnel in de buurt hahaha
@@schtormm vervang Eurotunnel met Moerdijk brug en tadaaa
Lage Zwaluwe heeft een groot parkeerterrein. Ideaal voor reizigers van Tilburg, Eindhoven, Venlo etc. om per auto er naar toe te rijden.
Great video. One question. Can you say anything about taking bikes with you? Esepecially Govolta and European Sleeper. A lot of people cycle Eurovelo routes. These are lomg distance routes, usually by a little sportive people (and not caring for kids anymore or not yet) with a good income (those bikes are really expensive). Many routes to Basel, Zurich, Italy ((Venice, Roma), Southern France, Northern Spain. And getting back is a real problem. You can take the Fietsbus, but trains are much nicer. And Paris-Amsterdam by train taking your bike with you is a real problem.
I’d say something about taking bikes if they announced anything about taking bikes
Also, in December 2024 the Friesebrücke bridge on the Ems river in Germany will be reconstructed, so the Arriva line Groningen-Leer will be reactivated
I guarantee you that will not open in 2024
Maybe only sideways related, but I miss Maastriicht - Hasselt light rail? Should have been running by now, but is there still any movement there?
That plan got cancelled years ago
11:43 did you know that Start is a 100% daughter of DB Regio, and probably only exist because of image and more tenders
Hey Thom... Do NS and other European companies have services comparable to Amtrak's state-supported trains? Does local transit get government funding?
Local transit gets funding, but they are subject to competitive tendering. So NS doesn’t run any.
Still waiting for the Aachen - Eindhoven/The Hague intercity... It's been 20+ years!
I’m not sure it will ever happen sadly
I wished that Trenitalia would connect the North of Italy to the Netherlands to be honest.
Switzerland has built very long tunnels so that it would be possible to run from Milan to Amsterdam at a decent speed.
Maybe they are waiting for the tunnel to France? Or maybe other Swiss projects?
Soon there's going to be a direct train from Groningen to Bremen (Wunderlinie), because the broken bridge is going to be repaired 🥰
Where is this misinformation coming from? There will be NO Groningen to Bremen train. When the bridge is finally fixed, the Arriva trains will run from Groningen to Leer just like they used to.
wait, what rolling stock will the last 2 companies use? would it be a stretch to think Arriva might inherit the 406s, because imagine how awesome that would be
Hasn’t been announced yet
Uh oh, I see a major issue coming up with those plans in the German side of the line: Arnhem => Cologne.
This route would be so congested that both the Netherlands and Germany should start about to rebuild and reopen the Nijmegen => Kleve section to have a robust train network along with Venlo => Mönchengladbach.
Furthermore, I think we need more HSR lines in the country in order to reduce traffic on the roads.
I wish the Nijmegen - Kleve line would reopen too but I think the local governments there are working really hard to prevent it.
@@Thom-TRA As long this line has no real big connection like turning it into Nijmegen => Cologne => Frankfurt, then it’s difficult, but in my view it should be part of a much bigger plan connecting Rotterdam with the east as currently, this takes forever.
The most important point you dropped in just at the end. A Unified booking and fare system. That is something that NS does so well at the present moment, and the influx of other operators, threatens that. And there is no way that Flixtrains passengers paying bargain basement prices are going to be allowed on other services if the flixtrain breaks down. These kind of issues need to be resolved first, to avoid chaos.
A problem like that is easily fixable by requiring the party that cancels their train to compensate the increased fare of the alternative train.
@@Thom-TRA Easily said, but how? On NS trains I use my OV pass. These new services from other companies, are likely to require booking and tickets, even if digital. If a train is cancelled, and I get on a different train, I am going to have to pay for the replacement, how then would I get recompensed?
The only other Dutch people I know are all techno artists.
we need a tram system connecting more cities in the netherlands, like randstadrail
I want both the Amsterdam and Rotterdam metros to meet in Leiden
I heard some rumors tcs might want to run to Switzerland with their recently acquired icr stock and their br101 locomotives, I have no idea if this is true but it could justify their purchase of atleast 75 coaches and some of the German locos
It’s exciting to see what livery the ICR coaches will get
look at the 101...@@Thom-TRA
@@Thom-TRA i suspect it will be like their locomotives and current fleet of coaches that they use on their dinner trains
So basically, most of the stuff actually being done and not just announced is by Arriva, trenitalia and (now) Eurostar, which are all majority owned by other national railways
Arriva is owned by an American investment group now. And neither Heuro nor GoVolta are owned by a foreign railway either.
Furthermore, I have no problem with foreign companies running better trains in the Netherlands. The EU is a common market, NS has every freedom to operate trains abroad. And they did, but in almost every case it was a qualified disaster.
1:17 ok that made me laugh
That’s what I was hoping for!
I hope they finally get going with the wunderline between Groningen and Bremen, maybe this will also help Bremen turn back into more than just a regional hub
Not before 2036 at the earliest
@@Thom-TRA thats a real shame, I moved from Bremen to Groningen in 2019 and back then the plan was that the track will open this year, if my info is right tho, nothing appart from the planning for the new Friesenbrücke has been completed so far
Interrail has proven that it IS possible to buy 1 ticket which can be used for any train company in Europe. They should totally leverage this
Exactly. They should develop a platform that is not aimed for tourists but uses their existing agreements!
Aren't Talgo trains the ones with the despised single axle bogies? Or has Talgo decided to splurge on two axles on newer trainsets?
No, they actually don’t have axles at all. They have two cars balancing on two wheels. I haven’t heard much hate though.
@@Thom-TRA Aren't the two wheels attached at opposite ends of an axle? I think the complaints I've heard are related to the increased sensitivity to poorer rail conditions because the bogie can't take the average of 4 wheels with the two pairs spaced a meter or so apart.
Where there is competition, there is a high quality service and lower prices. If half of what's been said in this video comes true, bright times will come to the rail passengers to/from The Netherlands.
Hm, makes me wonder. Why isn't SNCF trying to establish a Paris to Amsterdam line? Is Eurostar owned by SNCF in a major part?
Yes
@@Thom-TRA I figured😂👍
will all those long trains travel overnight? like the Copenhagen and Barcelona ones?
Copenhagen no, Barcelona yes
@@Thom-TRA There used to be a night train from Amsterdam to Copenhagen. I took it the first time I backpacked around Europe. It was cancelled along with all the other DB City Night Line services in the early-mid 2010s.
Where did u find that map or did u make it yourself?
Every single map in this video was made by me
@@Thom-TRA ok, they look really good ❤️🔥
@@treinspotter.belgie bedankt!
@11:50 I can't hear ENSCHEDE without thinking about this guy who pronounces it very loudly in his Dutch urbanism video. For the life of me I can't find his name.
Pronouncing Enschede properly is very important! 😂
Not Just Bikes? \m/
For those of you thinking all these would be train companies will make things better or cheaper, please refer to this video about ticket integration.
Also, maybe it is interesting to take the example of the UK into consideration.
Not without reason the privatisation of the British Railways is called the Great British Railway Disaster.
Indeed, the central government doesn't spend too much taxpayers funds on railway, that is now done by local government.
Services, connectivity, ticket integration has gone down, ticket prices have gone up, rolling stock prices are astronomical, while the taxpayer never had to pay so much.
Those train companies just tell local governments to pay more if they want the same level of service.
Not surprising that more and more franchises are taken into the public sphere and that the voices to go back to a unified railway company are growing.
You can't just point to the UK and say "this is why things will fail." The UK had a unique set of circumstances. You find very good service integration and improvements in Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, the Czech Republic, just to name a few places. This pessimism is getting tiring, you never come up with any original arguments.
trains are certainly awesome, i'm sorry that your tren maya video became so controversial, i hope it doesn't give a bad idea of the topic in our country in the long term
It was always intended to be a bit controversial ;)
Sounds very cool!
One question, why do all trains go via Amsterdam?! First, that's boring. Secondly, Amsterdam station is very old and congested. Thirdly, it is already served very well, why do we need 6 different service providers between AMS and Paris? And Fourthly, assuming the demand is there, why not go via Rotterdam, Utrecht, Amersfoort for example? I'd love to see some of these trains fly past Gouda for example 🙂
Because Amsterdam is the capital, largest business center, largest tourist attraction, and the largest city…
I wish it wasn’t but it makes sense to me.
Frecciarossa is the BEST in Europe!