For real! I live in Paris and whenever I go to a place in Belgium which isn't Brussels, I pass through Lille, because it's cheaper and as fast with many connections.
@Zaydan Naufal yes there’s a new season where they playing tag across Europe and are mostly taking trains.
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HSR in Belgium and the Netherlands really suffers from Thalys' ticketing shenanigans. In theory, there's an hourly blended service between Brussels and Cologne, alterneating between ICE and Thalys trains. In practice, you're stuck with half of that, because Thalys decided to do their own thing on ticketing and doesn't accept any European national rail tickets. I really hope the EU commission follows through on their threat to make European railways implement through-ticketing like they did until fairly recently. Would ba a major win for passengers and rail in general. And don't get me started on all the opportunities for attractive services wasted because of stupid UK paranoia rules.
@@alexmcwhirter6611 They actually don't. Under current EU regulations, any other company could come in and operate a competing service on the same line, which is sort of what DB does with their Cologne-Brussels line (and their planned future service from Germany to London St. Pancras). There's just not that many other companies out there that could compete with SNCF or DB, and most that do have the ability to do so (like Renfe or Trenitalia) are still too tied to the idea that they are a national railway company providing only national services. It's only really SNCF, DB and NS that have invested significantly in subsidiaries operating outside their native countries, and even then it's rarely high-speed rail.
Sad thing is, if they go through with the stupid-ass plan to move Intercity Direct services in Amsterdam from Centraal to Zuid, Thalys will be the only sensible option between Amsterdam and Brussels for anyone travelling with any kind of luggage. Serving city centers is one of the best part of European rail network and undermining it is a bad idea.
@@rjfaber1991 In theory, yes. But as you know international rail is complex. A new operator would need HS trains to cope with the different infrastructure and then there is the congestion issue at Amsterdam Centraal and Paris Nord. By the way DB revealed its plans for London way back in 2010 and it gave up a few years ago ... too much hassle dealing with all the other railway and Tunnel authorities. Right now DB has *no* plans to serve London and with Thalys/Eurostar it would face fierce opposition.
@@alexmcwhirter6611 I think those plans have been shelved more than outright cancelled, dependent on how Britain's border policy develops in the long term. But you are right, acquiring the rolling stock would be expensive (not difficult, as Alstom and Siemens will all too happily sell the trains, but expensive nonetheless), and finding a slot at certain stations is indeed tricky as well.
Hi there! Infrabel (belgian railway traffic controller) worker here! The reason why 25N has a limited top speed of 160 km/h is because of our local railway law. Above 160 km/h ETCS is mandatory by local law and regular signialing becomes obsolete. Due to budget cuts the 'upgrade' for 25N never came into play. This is still planned somewhere in the future, though due to the financial situation of belgium and its railwaysystem this will postponed. Though 25N is now also used as a backup line between the north south corridor known as line 27.
You can take a Eurostar from Brussels to Lille. If you do that, you go through a separate entrance to the platform bypassing the passport control, and into a dedicated carriage which is shut off from the rest of the train.
From what I've heard they have or are planning to scrap that as it is tedious and the removal could allow for the trains to be sped up, with only boarding or deboarding in mind, right now the train sits at Bruxelles Midi for 15 minutes or something as the paths don't line up for such extensive procedures.
But the complexity of that system further demonstrates the problem with having UK customs checks at the various EU stations, rather than just checking passengers if they arrive the only international station in the UK
@@ordinaryorca9334 Yes I understand it was axed some months ago. Previously a traveller could also book E* from AMS to BRU (or vv) only but that's no longer possible.
I took a trip from Utrecht to Vienna, it was great! I have some footage from that but I'd prefer to wait for the new generation of coaches with mini-suites since I think it will be a game changer
They are actually the worst, do not take ÖBB. I was stuck on a 5 hour delayed overnight where they forgot the food car, then on the way back they forgot the food car again but they also forgot the sleeper carriages so everyone had to sleep in the couchettes. Apparently we were the lucky ones though as the one crew member who spoke anything other than German said that they have completely forgotten entire sections of the passenger carriages before and could not fit everyone on. I have a multitude of other reasons to warn you to stay away but I don't want this comment to be any more rambly than it already is. TL;DR: ÖBB Nighjet management is atrocious and their treatment of customers is borderline a human rights violation
@@Disobeyedtoast You have been unlucky. Which route ? When did you travel ? TH-cam videos from other customers reveal how good are the Nightjets. Yes they can run late but that's the fault of the rail network ... engineering works etc. Note that OEBB is launching a new generation Nightjet in 2023... it's currently being certified.
@@alexmcwhirter6611 Amsterdam to Zurich this summer. Also my issue wasn't that it was late (although that was very inconvenient) it was that we were late and had no food or water
A small correction for the ICE services from Amsterdam. There are 6 daily ICE services from Amsterdam to Frankfurt via Cologne (same as from Brussels) and just 1 daily service to Basel.
I think that the point was none of the ICE service runs on any high speed lines in the Netherlands. They are simply using the regular lines mixed with the other passenger services. edited to add in the Netherlands as that is the relevant part of the video.
@@LunaKoops yes, but the point of the video was Belgium and the Netherlands. Once the ICE trains leave Germany, they are no different than any other passenger rolling stock.
It's worth mentioning that there were two extra lines planned in the Netherlands; HSL-Oost (East) to Germany and HSL-Noord (North)/Zuiderzeelijn (South Sea Line) to Groningen. That is why HSL-Zuid is called HSL-Zuid (South). Both HSL-Oost and Zuiderzeelijn were shelved quite early into this millennium due to the expected costs and a not too positive cost-benefit analysis (and because the Betuweroute Freight Line into Germany costed an enormous fortune in the end, which caused a strong political and public debate in whether a small country like the Netherlands would have to invest in such vast infrastructure). There were even ideas to make the Zuiderzeelijn a Maglev-line and was considered a serious alternative right untill the whole line was shelved. The new section between Lelystad and Zwolle (Hanzelijn) with a 200kph suitability is basically a 'saving grace' to the people in the north for shelving the Zuiderzeelijn. It has to be said that the Zuiderzeelijn ideas are starting to gain new traction and strong government interest. The project is now called "Lelylijn" and they are doing a feasibility study into what kind of line it should be. Probably a 'regular' 200kph line now NS has bought the ICNG trains. HSL-Oost has also re-appeared in public debate, for it could be a serious alternative to replace flights from Amsterdam to Cologne, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Munich, Basel and Vienna, but it hasn't gained as much traction as the Lelylijn.
I mean a 200km/h line would be great, considering that it's way cheaper and the travelling time difference would in theory be around 10 to 15 minutes, so Iguess that 200 km/h is worth it for a connection between Amsterdam and Groningen since Groingen is not big enough to really put that much money in it
@@tijs1886 there’s potential to extend the line from Groningen to Hamburg, together with the ongoing construction of the Fehmarn Belt Tunnel this would create a fast route between the Netherlands, Hamburg and Scandinavia. Unfortunately we already got burned by the so-called ‘German efficiency’ on the Betuwe Line construction, so nobody is really talking about this in the Netherlands.
I mean amsterdam utrecht is already 200km/h which is enough considering it is only 40-50km. (And to go faster you need to switch voltage from 1,5kv to something else, which makes using the line domestically much more difficult.) However to achieve this, the emtrs system (which is installed) has to be used instead of ATP (normal dutvh train sevurity system). Since the netherlands wants to fully switch to emtrs it should be a matter of time (i hope).
We (NL + BE) also had the Fyra, from Italy but they didn't reach those speeds. Parts would fall off and so on. I love this video of the last one being towed back to Italy. Not sure where OP liked (allows) people to put up a link, I will post it in a second reply. If nothing comes through, search for: "Laatste Fyrsa V250 verlaat Nederland"
That sounds like it *will* continue but does not today
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@@RMTransit The line does continue, the upgrades to Cologne-Düren were completed in 2002. Work on the gap from Aachen to Düren has been stuck in planning hell. The Aachen area has also seen some upgrades, including a new tunnel at the border crossing (the original dated from 1843) and moving the voltags switch from Aachen Hauptbahnhof to the actual border, which means that trans can now climb the steep incline towards the Belgian border under 15 kV power instead of 3 kV previously
@ The voltage switch is still in the planning phases, that will still take time. As for Aachen-Düren, I am not aware of any current plans to do something there; the closest I've heard were a few more passing tracks, because DB is more worried about the line being too busy with freight trains than about high speed. Fun fact: The old 1843 tunnel is still there! It's single-track only now because they essentially built a new tunnel inside it, and a second tunnel for the other track next to it. Generally the old tunnel is used for Liège to Aachen, and the new one for the other direction.
@@dda40x There is a reason why the voltage switch is still in planning: the Belgian railways still run their oldest trains (1960's "Classic" EMU's) on the local train between Spa and Aachen. These old things are only equipped for the Belgian 3kV DC voltage. But the Belgian Railways ordered a fleet of Traxx 3 locomotives that can go to Germany and the current plan on the Belgian side is to come back to the situation before 2003: that means that the local train will go to Eupen and the Inter City to Aachen (and maybe Cologne). But if Germany does the voltage switch before these new Traxx locos arrive, the Belgian railways have a backup plan: they recently electrified a line so there are a number of DMU's that are on stand-by, so they could temporarily run the local Spa to Aachen train using these Diesel trains until the Traxx 3 locos arrive.
@@imaginox9 Yep, I travelled on one of those just a couple of days ago from Aachen to Hergenrath. They're interesting, but I won't miss them much. According to NVR, the transit authority on the German side (search for their "SPNV-Trassenanmeldungen für den Jahresfahrplan 2024" document), SNCB are planning to use locomotive-hauled trains, which will then travel to Liège Saint-Lambert instead of Spa, from December 2023. No idea what'll happen to the Eupen IC, it sounds like the train to Aachen will be distinct from that since it only goes to Liège, and the Eupen IC doesn't go via Saint-Lambert. We'll have to wait and see how the approval process for the TRAXX 3 goes. The DB class 147s haven't had much luck in Switzerland, but of course it's Alstom now and they're using Alstom train protection equipment instead of the former Bombardier stuff, so I hope this'll work better now.
This is all very nice to see. Honestly it gives me a perspective as a Dane that what we're building is basically a mix between the Swedish and the Benelux approach, with some decent 250km/h capable lines here and there (and 2 more that could be built but await a political decission), but also upgrading our existing infrastructure in most places on the mainline to 200km/h. All while also letting regional services use the high speed lines. For instance on the first and so far only High speed line, Copenhagen-Køge Nord-Ringsted, there is a flyunder at Køge nord that connects the high speed line to the Little southern railway that goes via Køge to Næstved. Though its currently unused due to delays in the ETCS rollout, but once thats in place next spring, it should allow for half hourly regional trains from the Little southern railway into Copenhagen and out north to Nivå which use the high speed line. Though already the freight line is used by express regional trains to Nykøbing Falster, and even has bypass tracks intended for freight trains, which also uses the lines here.
@@RMTransit Definitely. Also IDK why I wrote freight line at the end, I meant high speed line. But yeah we see freight trains on HSR tracks too. The line is built for 250km/h speeds, but with conventional signals is limited to 180, and even once ETCS is working its limited to 230 due to the rolling stock they got for ETCS tests not being able to go above 256km/h during the testing on the line. Considering we're not planning to buy any trains going faster than 200 anyway though it should be plenty for now.
@@RMTransit An interesting video could be the impact of the Femern Tunnel on NW Europe or the impact on the Brenner base tunnel on the central North/south line corridor.
To be fair the Low Countries are some of the highest density countries on earth. Especially the Netherlands with almost 18 million inhabitants on barely 47000 square kilometers
I'm a little bit jealous. There's lots to be grateful for here in the Netherlands and Belgium but I sure wish we were less densely populated sometimes so we could actually have some nature or something.
The Netherlands might not have much nature, but Belgium has the Ardennes in the south and plenty of Dutch people go there for a taste of nature. Just look at some videos of the Semois Valley here on youtube, it's my fav place in the Ardennes and relatively sparsely populated compared to Flanders and the Netherlands.
The Intercity Direct is one of the best things that happened on Dutch rail in the recent decade in my opinion. These are great, because they reduce the traveling time a lot. For example: from Rotterdam to Schiphol Airport it takes only 23 minutes with the train, while it takes 41 minutes with car. Same with Breda to Rotterdam, via the HSL: 23 minutes with train and 40 minutes with the car.
not only by Car, normally ya have the IC to Delft-the Hague-Haarlem-Schiphol-Amsterdam CS, which takes about 45 minutes, the ICD cuts that basically in half from Rotterdam to Schiphol :) Worked at Schiphol for 9 months, and had to go by train everyday, I loved the ICD
The ICD used to be super nice. However, nowadays it is suffering many delays. This week only I had delays (10-25 mins) all the times I travelled with it (4 times)
We'll its only 49 km from rotterdam to schiphol, the only reason it takes so long with the car is because you have to take a detour driving to delft-denhaag-leiden then schipol or els it would take you 30-35 mins.
i have to agree, as a student I use the intercity direct service between schiphol airport and amsterdam centraal every day, though i havent noticed much of the 160 km/h speeds, probably because most of my journey is within amsterdam city limits and is thus restricted in speed to reduce noise pollution. i hope the introduction of the ICNG trains will allow my journey to be even quicker than it already is, since I still have some years to go until I earn my degree
The reason line 25N in Belgium runs at a lower speed is to maximise capacity. It is mostly used to run an extremely intensive conventional IC rail service between Brussels and Antwerp, stopping at towns and cities along the way (which makes sense from a Belgian domestic point of view - this area is one of the most densely populated in Europe and many journeys are commuter). Having the trains all run at the same speed reduces the gap needed between them in the timetable (as faster trains tend to catch up the stopping services). If Eurostars and Thalys were allowed to do 300km/h on it they would need a clear run to get through and the belgian domestic service would suffer. It's very irritating for Europe's high-speed network (especially on long journeys like the London to Amsterdam Eurostar) but it makes sense from a Belgian domestic point of view because the intensive IC service running trains every couple of minutes is the backbone of the country and a lot more important than a high speed trains running one every hour or so.
25N was always designed to speed up IC services rather than to provide a high speed corridor. The original design speed of ca. 200 kph is a clear indication of that (I expect that in a couple of decades our Intercity's will be running at a higher top speed than they are today, so the line-speed will be increased with no loss in capacity based on the capability of new rolling stock). The only way a true high speed connection is built between Brussels and Antwerp is with lots of European money. It would also be very expensive because you'd have to build lots of tunnels and/or expropriate a lot of suburban homes to get a halfway decent alignement. Of course, you could quad-track the straight part of 25N by reducing the number of lanes of the highway at chokepoints, but then you've only gone halfway and you still have the stretch between Mechelen and Antwerp to contend with. As annoying as the so-called 'gap' is there are a lot of other gaps in the Western-European network that have fewer obstacles to their construction. Amsterdam-Bremen-Hamburg or Amsterdam-Hannover, the connection Montpellier-Perpignan-Spanish border. (the Spanish line to Barcelona is already there) Of course, the lack of a high speed connection to Luxembourg is also a bit of an issue. To tie things together you'd really need a high speed line that goes Liège-Luxembourg-Nancy-Metz-Strasbourg, but of course, there the Geography makes things very expensive. Now you have make a big detour through Paris or through Germany, or take intercity trains on relatively slow track if you're trying to go North-South along the German Western border.
@@mariusdufour9186 Lets hope that with NMBS consistently buying fast IC's (please, NS take note for the new doubledeckers!) this 200km/h future is not so far. As far as I know, there are zero stops on the 25N line - where would you stop? texaco? - so as soon as all trains that run on this stretch are 200km/h capable, the speed should rise. 200km/h would be indeed the max of this line. A new stretch from Mechelen to Antwerp might shorten journey times, but from the belgian perspective the line would be very expensive for very little saved time. Mechelen would still be a bottleneck, but the station renovation might permit faster through-running. About the line to luxemburg: an EU project existed, EuroCap Rail, but it would originate from Brussels, run to Luxembourg and then onwards to strasbourg. Sadly, it doesn't seem this will be a true high speed line very soon - the geography you mentioned is relevant - but with money from the EU's covid package, Infrabel are finally upping speeds on the Brussels - Luxembourg corridor to a respectable 160km/h.
@@Giruno56 technically, Mechelen is on L25N since short. But the main goal of L25N is also to provide a northerly access to Brussels Airport, which is not on L25N, but which use is inevitable. There's room for extending L25N towards Antwerpen on the highway median, but only until about Mortsel, where the highway is tunneled. There's also no great entry into Antwerpen-Centraal I can think of without majorly disrupting either the city or train traffic, and without costing fortunes. I'm afraid that we're stuck with our current L25 at least for the moment...
@@Giruno56 The Luxembourg government has been lobbying for that line for a long time but the EU has always dismissed it as a low priority project of only regional concern. Let's not forget that EU leadership just uses private jets or luxury cars to do the 3 hour Brussels-Luxembourg or the 3 hour Luxembourg-Strasbourg trip, so the rail line wouldn't get that much use from higher budget travellers. Building an HSL through the rugged terrain would be prohibitively expensive, and there aren't big enough towns on the Belgian side to justify the cost. The Luxembourgish government already heavily subsidizes the Luxembourg-Liege line because Belgian Rail didn't consider it profitable enough to put newer faster trains on it and upgrade the tracks for them.
@@ricardogens9834 You are right. EuroCapRail will probably never see the light in the form of a seperate high speed line. The existing tracks wind through the terrain and will not allow for much higher speeds than the new 160 limit, although a tilting train might be able to shave a few more minutes from the journey time. Improving the tracks is necessary because as things stand, the quickest route from Brussels to Strasbourg is via Paris, even though this is a massive detour. There is no need for 300 km/h for the whole stretch; as long as the journey time is comparable/ and hopefully quicker than the Paris route it is useful.
Belgium / Netherlands are very well connected - Spent a week combined in both and never needed to worry about how I was going to get to places. Definitely much easier than air travel which is a complete pain!
There are some minor mistakes or things left out of this video. First of all there is a second train an hour that uses HSL2 the IC12 service between Kortrijk and Welkenraedt. I also find it weird that line 36N (Leuven-Brussels)wasn't mentioned as an upgraded route to 200km/h. With similar procedures being possible to line 96N, the line connecting HSL 1 to Brussels and L50A (Brussels-Ghent-Brugge). I also don't get why the plethora of TGV services from Brussels to the south of France weren't mentioned, there might not be a great structure to the timetable but they could have been mentioned. HSL2, 3 and 4 are in fact equipped with ETCS L2 as well as L1, to allow for more services to use the line, if I'm not mistaken the ICE3M used to not have ETCS L2 and so these lines were signaled with both to allow for them to speed up.
I just figured out why I missed IC-12: I had looked at the weekend timetable in order to capture the Kust Express, but then I forgot to set it back to the weekday timetable. Oops. On weekdays IC-12 runs hourly from Kortrijk to Leuven, but only about half of the trains continue along the HSL to Liège and Welkenraedt. There is no service on weekends. On weekdays there are also two round trips per day between Bruxelles to Liège and Visé via HSL-2, westbound in the morning peak and eastbound during the afternoon peak.
Correction on your correction, HSL2 is only equipped with ETCS level 1. ICE3M is equipped with ETCS level 2, so no problems there. The shuttle train to Noorderkempen however was served with Desiro MR08 trains, which aren't, but have been replaced since December 2021 with hle18 with M6, which are. Level 1 on HSL3 and 4 is now purely backup, hence why balises haven been installed only every 3 block sections. Speed under Level 1 is restricted to 160 kph for this reason. HSL2 differs, because ETCS replaced the domestic TBL2 system, which meant that there where already balises at each block section. Providing and connecting the balises is the most expensive part of level 1, so when that's already been taken care of... Also missing in the corrections is ÖBB Nightjet does not use LGV3, in stead it uses the classic route L37 via Verviers, because of missing paperwork. There have plans for a direct IC train to Aachen via LGV3, but no firm decision as of yet.
I do think it's important to mention that the Dutch NS asks an additional fee to use the InterCity Direct, that goes over the HSL while the Belgian NMBS just let you use every possible ticket on the HSL line.
Really nice video on my home country's HS network. Just a quick correction: LGV2 (in english HSL2 in Belgium) is also used for the Welkendraed-Kortrijk operated with "specials" M6 '200' double-deck cars. A few month ago, this service became hourly so the line see now 3 trains per hour in each direction (1 Thalys/ICE and 2 'normal' trainsets)
Hi Reece and Ontario Traffic Man, thank you for your video on Dutch (and Belgian) rail infrastructure! Impressed by how well-informed you guys are! I would love to provide some additional feedback to your video's. 1. (Passport Checks) - The passport checks nowadays are in my opinion well implemented in the Netherlands. The Dutch government together with the UK government have signed a treaty allowing for UK Border checks in the Netherlands. These checks are conducted at both Amsterdam Centraal station and Rotterdam Centraal station. Passengers can clear customs and passport control PRIOR to boarding the train. 2. (Domestic fares) - Domestic train travel on the high speed lines are also accessible when it comes to paying fares. Domestic trains do not require a reservation and only in the Netherlands a small supplement on a train ticket is required on the Schiphol-Rotterdam route. So far I know the supplement fare + regular train ticket is also applicable on the Brussels-Liege route for ICE-trains. The IC-Direct service from Amsterdam to Brussels also doesn't require a reservation and the fare is fixed. This is contrast to Germany f.e. where train travel on high speed lines do not require tickets bought in advance but are highly encouraged given by the immense fare paid for tickets that are not fixed to a specific train (zugbindung). 3. (Planned new routes) - New high-speed rail links are also considered for further complementation of our exisiting high-speed rail network. Interesting is the Lelylijn high-speed link which is planned between Lelystad and Groningen/Zwolle with vmax 200 km/h. Existing rail links between Lelystad and Amsterdam Zuid would see upgrades for increased vmax. Also, the line between Amsterdam-Utrecht is designed for vmax 200 km/h. 4. (Improved rail Belgium/Luxembourg) - In Belgium, construction is underway to increase line speed to vmax 200 (or 160) km/h on some sections between Brussels and Luxembourg City which also would decrease travel time and increase connectivity between both Luxembourg, Belgium and the Netherlands. Completion is foreseen in 2026 (at least...) 5. (Deutschlandtakt) - You have also briefly touched this subject, I see. Just to add: In Germany, regarding Deutschlandtakt, the German government is renewing track and signaling between the Dutch border and Dusseldorf which would also help decrease travel time between Amsterdam-Dusseldorf-Frankfurt, and will also allow for an hourly service if desired. Also, considerations are made to Utrecht-Dutch Border to increase top speed to 200 km/h vmax. This would at least allow for a much faster service. 6. (Off-topic) - When it comes to shared mobility, best practices in both the Benelux/Germany could be implemented in the Windsor Corridor which could boost public transit in this region. So far I have seen, the bottleneck really is with the governments who only have legislation on restricting micromobility where-ever possible and not paying attention to making streets bike friendly. Interesting subject for you perhaps? Would love to help!
I'm hoping, that as soon as the Intercity-tunnel in Frankfurt Hbf is build, they will use one of the old stub end platforms for London-headed trains and implement a suitable check-in there. Eurostar would definitely run this connection but maybe DB would also remember their old Frankfürt-Köln-Brüssel-London plans…
Yes the Frankfurt Intercity tunnel, would be great. The thing is it won't be up before 2045 and it massively depends on wich entrence/exit plans they decide on the east side of the tunnel how effective the tunnel actually will be.
Yeah though it's unusual that the train is already delayed before leaving the Netherlands. Usually it's the trains arriving from Germany which are delayed
I’m actually planning on moving to the Netherlands in the future so this video did a great job describing what to expect in terms of train travel and all I can say is this only makes me more excited to move there
Quick note for around 6:10 about the passport checks. This is actually something that the UK has made impossible. I believe that due to their policy on foreigners the companies are not allowed to check passports when on the way, because someone travelling with an invalid passport after the train has departed Brussels can only be deported when the train arrives in London, but that would mean that they're a refugee and you have all those refugee programs that make that a hassle. Oh and because of the weird way they're doing this now this means that the platforms are legally UK territory when a Eurostar train towards London is at the platform, so it's even illegal for crews not travelling to Londen to be on the platforms. Oh and I think at Brussels they have dedicated platforms with actual gates across the tracks that are only opened when a train departs?
E* was launched in October 1994. It used London Waterloo at that time. For the first few years there were customs & immigration checks made on board E* when bound for London. The original Alstom units were even fitted with secure 'cells' where suspicious travellers could be detained until the train reached London. The rules changed owing to border controls, immigration and so on.
You're completely right that it's a UK decision. But the "reasons" are all due to UK politics. As mentioned in the video even the US which has a famously hard border, checks the passports onboard. It's why DB decided not to run Frankfurt to London trains. Hopefully one day easy international trains from GB to the Continent will be possible.
@@FiftQuheill I hope so as well. High speed trains are nice and all, but ideally you'd also have a normal express train from Lille or Paris through the channel and onto the classic lines, or at least a train that doesn't require an expensive reservation.
Excellent video guys! Some 'fun' things to note: The Belgians have constructed the first "unofficial" high speed line in the world: Line 50A(amicably called HSL 0) which was constructed to pretty much to modern high speed rail standards(no grade crossings, very straight design etc) and is being upgraded for 200 Km/h Service speed. The Bombardier Traxx locomotives are causing excessive wear and tear to the Dutch HSL sections because their axial loading is high and their top-speed is too low. The top speed of the ICNG is for now currently limited mainly because the increased speed could mess up the current clock-face scheduling cycle that the NS uses. (One of the reasons 25N isn't used to its full potential) Just a few days ago, the European Comission approved adding the higher-speed 'Lelylijn' to its TEN-T funding project. This line will connect the city of Lelystad with Groningen via the now unserved cities of Emmeloord and Drachten. This project was submitted with the underfunded Wunderline to better connect the north of the Netherlands with the Randstad, Bremen, Hamburg and Copenhagen. Section Utrecht-Amsterdam was doubled and readied for 25KV AC 200km/h service but the boggy soil found in Holland and Utrecht has allerted Pro-rail to further investigate sections readied for service upgrades. Plans for upgrading Utrecht-Arnhem-Germany are brought up every decade or so. For more interesting Dutch(written) railplans google Spoorvisie 2040 that will never be implemented under a VVD led government.
I did consider talking about Spoorlijn 50A, but I decided not to because it would make the video too long. Actually the first "unofficial" HSL in the world is the Great Western Railway from London to Bristol, which was built in 1843 and has been operating at 200 km/h since the 1970's without any major upgrades. I understand that increasing the scheduled speed differential for ICD trains along the Flevolijn could create more conflicts with Sprinter trains, but they should at least allow trains to run at 200 km/h if they are behind schedule, to improve reliability.
Great video! As someone living in Germany along the Brussels-Liege-Cologne connection, I find it frustrating how underused it is. The HSL 3 is almost empty, and the German side has had some upgrades (half of the line between the border and Cologne has been upgraded to 250 km/h, specifically the half near Cologne), but not really enough. It's embarrassing that Belgium has 300 km/h lines right into France and Belgium, but for Germany, the high speed line stops literally right at the border. There aren't enough trains either; ICE and Thalys combine to about an hourly service. Demand is there for more, the trains are always full and the Thalys in particular is often booked out days and weeks in advance. There have been ideas to run conventional trains on the line, and that would be great, but nothing much seems to be happening in that regard. Random fun facts: The connection from Liege to Cologne via Aachen is the oldest international line in Germany, and may be the oldest international line in the world (the sources I found don't seem to be certain, but the line opened in 1843). Trains from Liège to Cologne travel through the oldest still existing rail tunnel in Germany.
HSL 2 is fairly well used, with 2 intercity trains per hour (IC-01 and IC-12) + 1 high speed train per hour (alternating between DB and Thalys), + 2 extra peak-period intercities per weekday + 1 NightJet every other day. But yes it is frustrating how underused HSL 3 is. It turns out that not even the NightJet uses HSL 3.
Also, George Nagelmackers, who founded the Orient Express, published his first pamphlet on sleeping cars and comfort on train rides in Liège in French, German and Dutch. That transnational/transcultural region has got something with trains for sure.
@@sokisoki5956 They're improving a double track to a quadtrack, the 2 middle tracks will be made to run at 200 km/h, which allows the IC trains to improve their speeds! and improve capacity by a lot
@@PTB_BE Sorry dat je je zo voelt, maar 160 km/h is geen hogesnelheidslijn. Lijnen 161 en 162 horen er dus nog steeds niet bij. We zijn wel lijn 36N vergeten want die rijdt al 200 km/h. Het had tenminste op de kaart moeten staan. Ik heb wel over lijn 50A gelezen en ik twijfelde of ik erover zou spreken aangezien zijn interessante geschiedenis, maar ik heb blijkbaar gemist dat het 200 zou worden anders had ik dat wel gedaan. Als je je eigen video maak over Hogesnelheidstreinen in de Benelux (of gewoon BeLux) zal ik het zeker kijken en een Like geven!
Very interesting video! Have to point out that the ÖBB Nightjet actually uses the conventional line between Liège and Aachen (via Verviers and Welkenraedt) instead of the HS3. Never understood why though. In general, i kinda dream of night trains with modern coaches (by modern I also mean with good sound insulation) capable of at least 230km/h that would make use of the various high-speed lines in Europe to cover even longer distances overnight. That would also increase the use of the HSL's in low traffic periods of the day. But that's dreaming a bit too big i guess and it's another topic :')
Oh, you're right. My mistake. Strange that they don't use HSL-3. There are very few trains on that line, you'd think that Infrabel wouldn't charge them too much to use it considering hardely anyone else uses it anyway. I like the potential to use more high speed lines to cover even longer distances with night trains. Some ideas for new overnight services which could be popular: Paris - Barcelona (1000 km) Paris - Florence (1200 km) Amsterdam - Lyon - Marseilles (1200 km) - in the summer Amsterdam - Lyon - Bourg St Maurice (1100 km) - in the winter Tokyo - Kagoshima (1300 km)
@@OntarioTrafficMan Nightjet's rolling stock is not allowed on the LGV3, unfortunately. Maybe in the future. And because they run slower than linespeed, they'd actually have to pay more in track fees as HSTs, as theoretically, they take up more capacity. Yes, it's silly.
Btw: you completely forgot about the upcoming Lelylijn high speed line from Lelystad to Groningen. Construction hasn't started yet, so there is plenty of room for it to be canceled, but it looks promising.
Since were going to have intercity direct from Amsterdam to Groningen, that line could maybe be extended to Hamburg, since its not far from Groningen and there's also no good transit connection between the 2 (the rail lines literally just stop both sides of the border...). It will also makes travel from the Netherlands to Scandinavia way easier
There used to be a through rail line (though you had to transfer in Leer) but then the bridge across the Ems got damaged. But yeah, I am pretty sure the original idea of the Zuiderzeelijn was to go Amsterdam-Groningen-Bremen-Hamburg.
You don't mention the little known fact that the trains in Belgium ride on the left (as they also do in the UK and France) and then change over to the right in Holland and that that also applies to the high speed lines in those countries.
@@OntarioTrafficMan Why not mention it? I would have thought it's a further characteristic of interest of the high speed lines in those countries that most people may not be aware of.
@@peterphillips8893 Because we didn't want the video to be hours long, so we had to select only the most important characteristics to include in the video.
Interesting fact about the conventional trains on the Dutch High speed lines is because these trains run to slow at 160 km/h on line designed for 300 km/h the slow trains damaged the rails on the line. The combination of the weight of the line and the lower speeds in the banked corners the forces on the track became to high, creating studs in the rails. This resulted in a 50 million Euro in extra costs. A software update in the Traxx locomotives made the issue manageable, but it will only be fully solved when they are replaced by the new trains. Although that is not yet clear as the new trains will also run to slow with their max speed of 200km/u. If you want to run conventional trains on a high speed line you will have to take this kind of operation into account in the design of the line. This means that you will have to reduce the banking of the corners, which results in either lower speeds or a larger radius of the corners. Most German high speed lines were designed for conventional operations, expect for the Cologne - Frankfurt line. The HSL Zuid was designed more like the French LGV lines and didn't take this into account. But nobody ever envisaged that it would take more then 13 years after the opening of the line before we would operate dedicated fast trains on domestic services over the line.
Fun fact: The Amsterdam - Utrecht line has been quadruple tracked with the idea of allowing 200 kmh services on the outside 2 tracks. For that, the signaling would need to be updated to ERTMS, which is ongoing and the catenary would need to be changed from 1500v to 25kv ac, which will hopefully happen some time soon. These 2 tracks normally have 12 intercity trains an hour, which is pretty crazy for heavy rail. (sadly, currently reduced due to staff shortages)
The line already has ERTMS but it is currently only used by ICE trains. The current proposal from ProRail is actually to increase the voltage to 3kV DC because it's simpler.
@@OntarioTrafficMan 3kv DC seems very silly though. I guess it's better than 1500v, but if you're going to have dual voltage trains and all the complexity, you might as well go all the way, plus if Lelylijn gets built, we'll need a lot more 25kv capable trainsets anyways. We'll see, I guess.
@@b127_1 while 3 kV is not as good, it would still double the current capability of 1.5 kV, while technically, the systems are much closer. Belgian domestic trains (who run on 3 kV) have been running under Dutch overhead wires for decades, just at half power. Adapting NS trains to run also under 3 kV would be relatively easy. It's a lot cheaper to implement on the infrastructure level, the substations are already in place, there's no need for bigger clearances at bridges and in tunnels (which would be the case with 25 kV AC)... I'm not against changing to 25 kV, but it would be something that takes decades to do (just look at Czechia). I'm hopeful 3 kV could be done faster.
@@b127_1 The issue with 25kv is that it requires a full replacement of the infrastructure, including the introduction of phase locks. Technically the lines currently run 1800v DC because it guarantees a minimum of 1500v on the line.
In Germany, IRE 1 trains between Karlsruhe and Stuttgart use a short portion of the Mannheim-Stuttgart high speed line. IRE lines are limited regional express trains also using conventional rolling stock. The IRE 1 mentioned above uses 160 kph FLIRT 3 EMUs.
@@rjfaber1991 These are actually all year-round direct services operated by TGV InOUI (different from the seasonnal Thalys "snow" and "sun"). Generally it's only one or two roundtrips per day but still quite convenient.
@@rjfaber1991 They do indeed by-pass Paris via Massy TGV (only if you come from the Atlantique HSL) and then Marne la Vallée and CDG on the Interconnection Est.
In fact, you can indeed go high speed between Köln and Düren, as soon as the train line has passed the narrow curves around the hills near Aachen. This high speed line is, anyhow, not clearly designated as such, but it uses LZB in-cab signalling at speeds up to 250 km/h.
@@OntarioTrafficMan nope, it is being used together with regional traffic, but it qualifies as high-speed line. Another line classified as upgraded is the Hamburg-Berlin mainline where trains run up to 230 km/h as a rule, but combined with freight traffic and regional trains at reasonably lower speeds. For the Aachen-Köln line, there is a relief trunk line for freight traffic close by, and the main line has separated tracks for the Köln-Düren S-Bahn trains, so that regional or long-distance through traffic can go fast to Düren and Aachen. Between Düren and Aachen, the regional trains are provided with platforms in Köln-Ehrenfeld and Horrem on the fast tracks.
@@apveening No, they're owned by the same company. A parent company named Air France-KLM. That's how it was set up years ago. KLM and Air France still operate under their own names.
Excellent video. I have been on the Thalys from Rotterdam to Paris return. Its about 2.5-3 hour ride having attained the maximum speed of 300 kmh. Very smooth too. I also have been on the ICE 3 from Frankfurt to koln. Same speed but not as smooth as the Thalys.
Fun fact: Belgium has the very first high speed rail! Built in the interbellum: a second rail between Brussels and Ghent with no level-crossings and no stations in between and almost a perfect straight line.
Just come back to the UK from Belgium (by train from the Brussels city to the car park then car + eurotunnel) so can’t wait to see this! We took the eurotunnel rather than the Eurostar simply because of the price! Had to park in the airport parking in Brussels and take the train into the city though because we couldn’t prove that the car meets euro 5 standards even though it does. If anyone is thinking of going to Brussels I would say you should! Transport there is amazing and the city centre is very walkable. The cars generally stop for pedestrians waiting to cross too which is amazing! Transport from the airport (where we parked) is very efficient but if you are coming from the UK as a single traveller or couple (or can afford the Eurostar as a family) id say the Eurostar is easier because it takes you right into the city.
Do you have a series on shut down rail systems? And the struggle to revive them? Vancouver Island has been trying to petition to get their railway back operational. There used to be rail to the ferries and it's been over a decade since they were last operational.
In fairness it’s so tiny though, like here in Ireland most domestic flights are to serve areas with poor land connections and even good land transport would still make them fairly hard to reach. I use domestic only really for connecting flights really because getting to the main Dublin airport as non driver is an absolute ordeal but NL is probably the size of like 2 Irish countries and is flat, so it’s much easier. I wonder does Belgium have them?
Netherlands used to have domestic flights but no more. These were feeder flights for KLM into Schiphol. KLM still operates several flights a day (as feeders) for BRU-AMS even though the air mileage is just over 100 !
Considering the small size of our country, domestic flights would be kind of pointless. If I would have to travel from the most southern part to the most northern part of the Netherlands it would be a 3.5 hour 350 kilometre or 220 mile drive. Considering you have to get to and from the airports, check in and out it you bring some luggage and have your flight, you would probably take longer and pay more. Even travelling by train would only take 4 hours. Mind you, there is no high speed rail on this side of the Netherlands. Public transport is not cheap, driving with one passenger would be cheaper with an economical car than taking the train together.
It's really just skipping one station. The main reasons for building it are, like you said, more capacity is needed, specifically for the Luxembourg to Thionville (France) line, which is the highest frequency cross-border trainline in Europe, and over capacity at rush hour, and the Luxembourg to Esch-sur-Alzette line (Lux's 2nd city). As the new line is an almost straight shot between Luxembourg City and the Bettembourg Junction, it will allow higher speed service, which will shave off about 5 to 10 minutes compared to the old mainline, since it has 2 tight-ish curves. It won't be a highspeed line, but it might help the TGV shave off those 5 to 10 minutes as well.
I searched RMTransit library of published videos and I did not find any presentation for the Moroccan Al Boraq HSR? Did I miss it somewhere, or is this a Europe/Asia only thing?
Would add 2 things here: (1) while there is no dedicated HSL in Luxembourg, the French TGV actually does go there from Paris, Montpellier and Marseille (via the LGV Est). Also the Bxl - Lux line is currently being upgraded. While not HSL it might allow through running services (a propper Benelux train) going forward. This will depend though on the final speeds achieved.
A through-running Benelux train is not very practical. It's a long ride and those trains would have to change directions at Brussels North and it's a very long run for few travelers
meanwhile switzerland not needing hsr because the cities are close together but still making the gottard base tunnel for the efficiency of other countries
one thing i'd like to note is that between brussels and just outside of gent there is a small hsl like track (sort of like the hanzellijn) which was originally built for the thalys extension to oostende if said train is equipped with etcs and can operate faster than 160 kmh they are allowed to go at 200 kmh
Another small thing: the line from Brussels to Gent, and then onwards to Oostende, is sometimes called HSL 0 due to its very straight alignment and lack of level crossings. Efforts are made now to increase speeds and quad track the corridor. This would allow running at 200km/h one day...
I just recently took the NS international trains from Amsterdam to Brugge. I’m glad this was mentioned! As much as I love HSR, this NS public line was actually much more convenient. It was cheaper, didn’t require reserved seats, was very flexible (making us less stressed as travel plans frequently evolve, so we could take any train that day with our tickets), and was only about an hour longer than the Thalys (4 hours total vs 3). Granted, Thalys would have only gone to Brussels, but still! I wish more intercity trains had this option.
13:30 I have never heard of those plans for a partially highspeed line from Cologne to Utrecht, where did you get that information? As I know, they are just upgrading the line via Emmerich to 3 tracks right now (which is stupid, should be 4 tracks), but that is not a highspeed line
In Belgium, the implementation of High-Speed train and construction of HSL was completely phased. When the First TGV ran from Paris to Brussels, only the French part was High-speed. And slowly, but surely, the HSL were build up to enhance the service between those 2 cities lowering the travel time from 2h15 to 1h35. Even the entrance in Brussels south station was build afterwards to gain the last 5 minutes on travel time. That's one of the big advantages of the multicurrent feature of the Thalys PBA & PBKA (Paris-Brussels-Köln-Amsterdam) is that they can run on conventional line if the HSL is not (yet) ready.
A video going more in depth about Seoul's GTX would be great. There's not much English language information about it aside from it's a fast regional train that's planned. SK has the HSR from its capital Seoul to its southern port city Busan and each city has its own metro that extends out to the suburbs, but an express service for those suburbs to the city center could be a really valuable middle option. Of course, I say this as a tourist who was crashing with someone I knew in the suburbs and took an hour metro to Seoul.
I do like your videos but some of the info in here is a little outdated. It's been pointed out below by someone else already that infrastructure for passport-control in both Dutch stations in the north has been improved over the last year, which was an absolute dealbraker in choosing the train over(/under?)seas or not.
There is also a quick intercity line between Gent and Brussels. Pretty sweet, 30 mins to center of brussels with like 3 to 4 trains an hour. By car it is horror haha
The interruption at the Belgian-German border is just a few kilometers though, the highspeed part continues in Düren, into Cologne and then further toward Frankfurt etc.
@@holygooff while a proper HSL is not really needed, extra capacity would be welcome. With a scheduled 6 ICs an hour (2 of which stop at Mortsel-Oude-God and Mechelen-Nekkerspoel, further reducing capacity), and Thalys and Eurostar, and an additional IC around Mechelen (train from Turnhout) L25 is practically at capacity between Antwerpen and Mechelen during the week.
When discussing E* one point not mentioned was its 30% capacity cut at StPancras London. E* has had to limit capacity *from* London because, with extra checks now required 'cos of Brexit it cannot process pax in a timely manner. This news was confirmed by former CEO M Damas a few weeks ago (before he stepped down from his post) to our parliament's Hugh Merriman MP. It means that E* fares are very high ex-London ...because of these capacity limitations. It's unclear when the capacity restrictions will be lifted.
I suspect that this comment will not mean much to non-British readers. I am British, but I had to stop and think, what does he mean by E*? Alex means 'Eurostar', the operator of the high-speed trains through the channel tunnel. The letter Alex refers to is to Huw Merriman, chair of the UK parliament's Transport Select Committee. St Pancras can now process only a maximum of 1500 passengers per hour, compared with 2200 in 2019. See Today's Railways Europe issue 321 at page 6.
I, Roger Sexton, am a fairly frequent visitor to the Benelux. This video is a very fair representation of the current situation. However, one word of caution. Currently (Autumn 2022) the DB ICE service running Brussels-Cologne-Frankfurt mentioned at 5m 34s is EXTREMELY UNRELIABLE. See, for example, the letter at page 15 of Today's Railways Europe issue 321 and also the editorial in the same magazine's issue 319. DB is currently in a horrendous mess. On the Brussels-Frankfurt route the situation is, I believe, exacerbated by a shortage of ICE units which can run under 3000 volts DC.
Correct. So many rail fans looked forward to sampling the ICE to or from Brussels but were disappointed. Either the ICE failed en route or else when Brussels-bound, it terminated at Cologne or Aachen. This summer DB had to introduce a reduced timetable for this route.
I absolutely disagree with the statement that it might be better to check Eurostar passengers in London. Security checks are still required for trains through the Chunnel, meaning you still have all the facilities and people checking in. Given you have to check people anyway, it also makes sense to check their passports. This also means you don't have to get off your train and then go through a massive queue. St Pancras is capable of conducting passport checks on arrival - which was done for arrivals from Marne La Vallee - but not other terminals.
Remember when E* was first launched all passport checks were carried out onboard the train. It was only later, with the growth in illegal immigration, that the present system was introduced. Those Alstom sets even came with secure 'cells' where suspicious pax could be detained until the train reached its destination.
Agreed, also Eurostar sets seat a lot of passengers, so if they'd have to pass through immigration all at the same time upon arrival the queues would be much longer than in the current situation, where passengers get checked as they arrive at their own pace. The missed potential for Eurostar as an intra-shengen operator is unfortunate, but for actual trips to the UK the current system is absolutely fine.
They could always drop the security checks. It's very unlikely that they will, due to politics, but the checks are just security theatre. Switzerland has longer rail tunnels with higher speeds and doesn't need any of that.
Small comment about the HSL3 ending at the border, after about 30km there is another highspeed capable line from Düren to Cologne. But yeah, no way of continuing at high speeds after Aachen until you get to Düren.
I love how the last shot is of an ICE train with over an hour of delay. Dutch high speed rail is adequate, but there is so much more potential. For example the intercity from Amsterdam to Berlin actually only has gotten slower the past decades.
Its ridicilous how well Belgium specifically Bruxelles is connected to Germany (Frankfurt/Koln), Netherlands (Rotterdam, Amsterdam) , Great Britain (London) and France (Paris, Lille). Its like the High speed central station of Western Europe
Yeah, and they have been doing most of that under the radar. If Belgium ever comes to rebuilding it's Brussels-South station, it could indeed become a HSR hub for all of Western-Europe.
something i find very interesting is that arriva and qbuzz, who are owned by db and trenitalia, both have talked about starting high speed services between amsterdam and paris to compete with the eurostar group!
you forgot one more ICE which goes from Amsterdam to Frankfurt and back But both the ICE's don't follow a highspeed track, they do however go over a freight line but they often drive between 80 and 160kph
I started making English subtitles for an excellent Dutch video by RailRides which includes this topic, but TH-cam removed the community captions feature before I got to the part on the Fyra
A pretty good effort but not perfect. Just a few things that weren't mentioned: - Little known fact: Belgium has the first "dedicated high speed train line", 50A, dating back to 1923-1933 (used at 140 kph at the time!). No at-grade crossings, with Bruxelles-Midi and Ghent S.P. as its only stations on the eastern half of the line. - The "normal" Belgian intercity network is gradually being upgraded to a 160 or 200 km/h standard. This is already the case on one of your "missing links", namely line 36N Brussels-Leuven, connecting HSL 2 to Brussels, which has been at v200 for almost two decades. Line 50A is up next for a v200 upgrade, which will mean that IC-1 should be able to run at 200 kph on most of its course. All SNCB mainline intercity rolling stock acquired since 1995 is compatible with these standards, maybe apart from the M6 carriages (2006) that needed to be modified from v160 to v200.
Kortrijk-Welkenraedt domestic intercity trains also use the HSL2 between Leuven and Liège, and line 36 between Leuven and Brussels has quadruple track with a top speed of 200 km/h for the inner two pairs of track to accomodate the international high-speed trains to Germany. Leuven is quite odd, it's a big rail hub for Belgium but ICE and Thalys trains pass through the station going 200 km/h (an audio warning tells passengers to stay away from the platform edge)
Amsterdam-Paris is 3h15m but its actually faster than the 1 hour flight. Just the regional RER train from Paris-Charles de Gaulle airport to Paris city center takes 50 minutes by itself. Then there is of course the security and check in hassle to deal with. With the Thalys train, you can literally arrive 5 minutes before your departure, step on, put your luggage in the rack and sit and relax in you comfy seat while enjoying the landscape.
Correction on the San Joaquins and CA High Speed Rail comment. The San Joaquins will continue to use its current alignment through the Central Valley as a local service connecting to the more spread out High Speed Rail stations. Passengers will be able to transfer directly to San Joaquins and ACE trains at Merced to reach Sacramento or the Bay Area until the direct high speed rail tracks are completed between Merced and Gilroy.
That makes slightly more sense, but it still seems such a waste of valuable infrastructure. If you have it, just use it to its full capacity, instead of continuing to operate on worse parallel infrastructure.
I mean that only makes the criticism more valid. The San Joaquins will run at the (current) slow speed in the old allginment, even though the trains themselves could operate at a higher speed if they were allowed on the HSR line. That's a massive waste.
According to page 110 of the "California High Speed Rail Early Train Operator Central Valley Segment System Management & Operations Interim Financial Plan" (June 2020): "San Joaquins and ACE trains approaching Merced from the north will switch from the BNSF tracks (Stockton Subdivision) to Union Pacific tracks (Fresno Subdivision) through cross-over tracks or “The Loop”, also referred to as the Merced Intermodal Train Connection (MITC) [...] and will terminate at the future Merced High-Speed Rail Station" On page 112 you can see a service diagram confirming that the San Joaquins ends at Merced. On page 113 you can see that the planned HSR service is only 1 train per hour on opening day. Plenty of room for the San Joaquins to share the line. In comparison, the HSL Zuid has up to 7 trains per hour (2 high speed and 5 intercity).
Man do I love living in Europe! Not everything’s perfect, but stuff like this gives me hope that we’ll one day be able to fully ditch shorthaul flights in all of Europe.
I live in cologne and had no idea there are plans for a high speed line cologne - Amsterdam. Very interesting indeed! What is the situation regarding Düsseldorf? Will Düsseldorf be bypassed entirely, will there be higher speed tracks between cologne and Düsseldorf or will services share tracks with existing ones? The infrastructure in the Rhine Ruhr region and along the Rhine is operating maximum capacity, so more services would only stress the system more unfortunately
I travelled to these two countries several months ago and actually had a chance to ride on the Thaleys train from Amsterdam to Brussels. Albeit the train is really nice and going fast, I can't help noticing that the travel time between these two cities (170km apart) hits almost 2 hours, whilst the even longer Paris-Brussels Eurostar (260 km) takes only 1hr20m. Even the UK trains operating on WCML can travel between London and Birmingham (also 170km apart) in 1hr 20 min with only a top speed of 200 kph. There's certainly a bit to improve!
Interesting to see AnsaldoBreda managing to mess up catastrophically. The M32 model trams in Gothenburg have created a lot of issues and had to be partly rebuilt by another company because they kept failing at fixing them. Apparently they suck at building good trains as well.
It's amazing that the ~200 year old train is still the most efficient form of moving people between cities. I feel like personal automobiles are merely a phase before we solve the last mile problem in the most convenient and cheap way.
Because it seems that once a HSR corridor is opened in Belgium/the Netherlands conventional trains coming from destinations further afield switch to that alignment, what happens to stations and track along the original, lower-speed one? Are they still served by some sort of local or all-stop train, or just abandoned entirely?
Great video! I totally agree with that middle part
What a fantastic in depth explanation!
why didn't you mention the ICNG are going to operate on the IC Brussels-Amsterdam and not just the Domestic ICD?
@@aselwyn1 I said that the IC Direct trains are being taken over by ICNG. That includes the train to Brussels.
@@OntarioTrafficMan Are the ICNG meant to replace the Koplopers?
@@youtube-kanal2606 Yes
Those of us who have been watching Jet Lag are aware of how well connected Lille is.
Haha yes, it’s an important hub! Twas a great season!
For real! I live in Paris and whenever I go to a place in Belgium which isn't Brussels, I pass through Lille, because it's cheaper and as fast with many connections.
@@RMTransit The train season.
It makes me want to visit Lille
@Zaydan Naufal yes there’s a new season where they playing tag across Europe and are mostly taking trains.
HSR in Belgium and the Netherlands really suffers from Thalys' ticketing shenanigans. In theory, there's an hourly blended service between Brussels and Cologne, alterneating between ICE and Thalys trains. In practice, you're stuck with half of that, because Thalys decided to do their own thing on ticketing and doesn't accept any European national rail tickets.
I really hope the EU commission follows through on their threat to make European railways implement through-ticketing like they did until fairly recently. Would ba a major win for passengers and rail in general.
And don't get me started on all the opportunities for attractive services wasted because of stupid UK paranoia rules.
Thalys/Eurostar ought not to hold a monopoly on some, if not the busiest, international HS routes in Europe.
@@alexmcwhirter6611 They actually don't. Under current EU regulations, any other company could come in and operate a competing service on the same line, which is sort of what DB does with their Cologne-Brussels line (and their planned future service from Germany to London St. Pancras). There's just not that many other companies out there that could compete with SNCF or DB, and most that do have the ability to do so (like Renfe or Trenitalia) are still too tied to the idea that they are a national railway company providing only national services. It's only really SNCF, DB and NS that have invested significantly in subsidiaries operating outside their native countries, and even then it's rarely high-speed rail.
Sad thing is, if they go through with the stupid-ass plan to move Intercity Direct services in Amsterdam from Centraal to Zuid, Thalys will be the only sensible option between Amsterdam and Brussels for anyone travelling with any kind of luggage. Serving city centers is one of the best part of European rail network and undermining it is a bad idea.
@@rjfaber1991 In theory, yes. But as you know international rail is complex. A new operator would need HS trains to cope with the different infrastructure and then there is the congestion issue at Amsterdam Centraal and Paris Nord. By the way DB revealed its plans for London way back in 2010 and it gave up a few years ago ... too much hassle dealing with all the other railway and Tunnel authorities. Right now DB has *no* plans to serve London and with Thalys/Eurostar it would face fierce opposition.
@@alexmcwhirter6611 I think those plans have been shelved more than outright cancelled, dependent on how Britain's border policy develops in the long term.
But you are right, acquiring the rolling stock would be expensive (not difficult, as Alstom and Siemens will all too happily sell the trains, but expensive nonetheless), and finding a slot at certain stations is indeed tricky as well.
Hi there! Infrabel (belgian railway traffic controller) worker here! The reason why 25N has a limited top speed of 160 km/h is because of our local railway law. Above 160 km/h ETCS is mandatory by local law and regular signialing becomes obsolete. Due to budget cuts the 'upgrade' for 25N never came into play. This is still planned somewhere in the future, though due to the financial situation of belgium and its railwaysystem this will postponed. Though 25N is now also used as a backup line between the north south corridor known as line 27.
You can take a Eurostar from Brussels to Lille. If you do that, you go through a separate entrance to the platform bypassing the passport control, and into a dedicated carriage which is shut off from the rest of the train.
There's basically no reason to do that. The TGV runs hourly or better and Is often cheaper than 15 euros
From what I've heard they have or are planning to scrap that as it is tedious and the removal could allow for the trains to be sped up, with only boarding or deboarding in mind, right now the train sits at Bruxelles Midi for 15 minutes or something as the paths don't line up for such extensive procedures.
But the complexity of that system further demonstrates the problem with having UK customs checks at the various EU stations, rather than just checking passengers if they arrive the only international station in the UK
@@ordinaryorca9334 Yes I understand it was axed some months ago. Previously a traveller could also book E* from AMS to BRU (or vv) only but that's no longer possible.
Yeah, but seems like an odd use of the service!
This video briefly mentioned the ÖBB Nightjets, and I think that they are worthy of a video as well, so I'd love to see you cover them.
I took a trip from Utrecht to Vienna, it was great! I have some footage from that but I'd prefer to wait for the new generation of coaches with mini-suites since I think it will be a game changer
@@OntarioTrafficMan Sometime to wait. New rolling stock enters service in 2023 but it won't arrive in N Europe initially.
They are actually the worst, do not take ÖBB. I was stuck on a 5 hour delayed overnight where they forgot the food car, then on the way back they forgot the food car again but they also forgot the sleeper carriages so everyone had to sleep in the couchettes. Apparently we were the lucky ones though as the one crew member who spoke anything other than German said that they have completely forgotten entire sections of the passenger carriages before and could not fit everyone on. I have a multitude of other reasons to warn you to stay away but I don't want this comment to be any more rambly than it already is.
TL;DR: ÖBB Nighjet management is atrocious and their treatment of customers is borderline a human rights violation
@@Disobeyedtoast You have been unlucky. Which route ? When did you travel ? TH-cam videos from other customers reveal how good are the Nightjets. Yes they can run late but that's the fault of the rail network ... engineering works etc. Note that OEBB is launching a new generation Nightjet in 2023... it's currently being certified.
@@alexmcwhirter6611 Amsterdam to Zurich this summer. Also my issue wasn't that it was late (although that was very inconvenient) it was that we were late and had no food or water
A small correction for the ICE services from Amsterdam. There are 6 daily ICE services from Amsterdam to Frankfurt via Cologne (same as from Brussels) and just 1 daily service to Basel.
True, there's one return from Basel to Amsterdam in the evening though, so 1 per direction per day.
I think that the point was none of the ICE service runs on any high speed lines in the Netherlands. They are simply using the regular lines mixed with the other passenger services.
edited to add in the Netherlands as that is the relevant part of the video.
@@Infrared73 between Köln and Frankfurt it uses a HSL
@@LunaKoops yes, but the point of the video was Belgium and the Netherlands. Once the ICE trains leave Germany, they are no different than any other passenger rolling stock.
@@Infrared73 good point thanks!
It's worth mentioning that there were two extra lines planned in the Netherlands; HSL-Oost (East) to Germany and HSL-Noord (North)/Zuiderzeelijn (South Sea Line) to Groningen. That is why HSL-Zuid is called HSL-Zuid (South).
Both HSL-Oost and Zuiderzeelijn were shelved quite early into this millennium due to the expected costs and a not too positive cost-benefit analysis (and because the Betuweroute Freight Line into Germany costed an enormous fortune in the end, which caused a strong political and public debate in whether a small country like the Netherlands would have to invest in such vast infrastructure). There were even ideas to make the Zuiderzeelijn a Maglev-line and was considered a serious alternative right untill the whole line was shelved. The new section between Lelystad and Zwolle (Hanzelijn) with a 200kph suitability is basically a 'saving grace' to the people in the north for shelving the Zuiderzeelijn.
It has to be said that the Zuiderzeelijn ideas are starting to gain new traction and strong government interest. The project is now called "Lelylijn" and they are doing a feasibility study into what kind of line it should be. Probably a 'regular' 200kph line now NS has bought the ICNG trains.
HSL-Oost has also re-appeared in public debate, for it could be a serious alternative to replace flights from Amsterdam to Cologne, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Munich, Basel and Vienna, but it hasn't gained as much traction as the Lelylijn.
I mean a 200km/h line would be great, considering that it's way cheaper and the travelling time difference would in theory be around 10 to 15 minutes, so Iguess that 200 km/h is worth it for a connection between Amsterdam and Groningen since Groingen is not big enough to really put that much money in it
Don't forget about the other alternative, the Superbus from Wubbo Ockels.
@@tijs1886 there’s potential to extend the line from Groningen to Hamburg, together with the ongoing construction of the Fehmarn Belt Tunnel this would create a fast route between the Netherlands, Hamburg and Scandinavia.
Unfortunately we already got burned by the so-called ‘German efficiency’ on the Betuwe Line construction, so nobody is really talking about this in the Netherlands.
I mean amsterdam utrecht is already 200km/h which is enough considering it is only 40-50km. (And to go faster you need to switch voltage from 1,5kv to something else, which makes using the line domestically much more difficult.) However to achieve this, the emtrs system (which is installed) has to be used instead of ATP (normal dutvh train sevurity system). Since the netherlands wants to fully switch to emtrs it should be a matter of time (i hope).
@@daanwolters3751 All of EU is switching to ERTMS on all main lines. That's a common policy. Deadlines vary by country.
2:54 The line between Aachen and Cologne is upgraded for 250 km/h and after Cologne it connects to the high speed line towards Frankfurt
We (NL + BE) also had the Fyra, from Italy but they didn't reach those speeds. Parts would fall off and so on. I love this video of the last one being towed back to Italy. Not sure where OP liked (allows) people to put up a link, I will post it in a second reply. If nothing comes through, search for: "Laatste Fyrsa V250 verlaat Nederland"
I think it's funny how the ICE in the very last scene has 1 hour and 5 minutes delay while Reese says the words "solid network".
Typical Deutsche Bahn.
2:55 the line does continue in Germany. The section Cologne-Düren allows 250 km/h and Düren-Aachen is planned or under construction for 200 km/h.
That sounds like it *will* continue but does not today
@@RMTransit The line does continue, the upgrades to Cologne-Düren were completed in 2002. Work on the gap from Aachen to Düren has been stuck in planning hell.
The Aachen area has also seen some upgrades, including a new tunnel at the border crossing (the original dated from 1843) and moving the voltags switch from Aachen Hauptbahnhof to the actual border, which means that trans can now climb the steep incline towards the Belgian border under 15 kV power instead of 3 kV previously
@ The voltage switch is still in the planning phases, that will still take time. As for Aachen-Düren, I am not aware of any current plans to do something there; the closest I've heard were a few more passing tracks, because DB is more worried about the line being too busy with freight trains than about high speed.
Fun fact: The old 1843 tunnel is still there! It's single-track only now because they essentially built a new tunnel inside it, and a second tunnel for the other track next to it. Generally the old tunnel is used for Liège to Aachen, and the new one for the other direction.
@@dda40x There is a reason why the voltage switch is still in planning: the Belgian railways still run their oldest trains (1960's "Classic" EMU's) on the local train between Spa and Aachen. These old things are only equipped for the Belgian 3kV DC voltage. But the Belgian Railways ordered a fleet of Traxx 3 locomotives that can go to Germany and the current plan on the Belgian side is to come back to the situation before 2003: that means that the local train will go to Eupen and the Inter City to Aachen (and maybe Cologne). But if Germany does the voltage switch before these new Traxx locos arrive, the Belgian railways have a backup plan: they recently electrified a line so there are a number of DMU's that are on stand-by, so they could temporarily run the local Spa to Aachen train using these Diesel trains until the Traxx 3 locos arrive.
@@imaginox9 Yep, I travelled on one of those just a couple of days ago from Aachen to Hergenrath. They're interesting, but I won't miss them much.
According to NVR, the transit authority on the German side (search for their "SPNV-Trassenanmeldungen für den Jahresfahrplan 2024" document), SNCB are planning to use locomotive-hauled trains, which will then travel to Liège Saint-Lambert instead of Spa, from December 2023. No idea what'll happen to the Eupen IC, it sounds like the train to Aachen will be distinct from that since it only goes to Liège, and the Eupen IC doesn't go via Saint-Lambert.
We'll have to wait and see how the approval process for the TRAXX 3 goes. The DB class 147s haven't had much luck in Switzerland, but of course it's Alstom now and they're using Alstom train protection equipment instead of the former Bombardier stuff, so I hope this'll work better now.
This is all very nice to see. Honestly it gives me a perspective as a Dane that what we're building is basically a mix between the Swedish and the Benelux approach, with some decent 250km/h capable lines here and there (and 2 more that could be built but await a political decission), but also upgrading our existing infrastructure in most places on the mainline to 200km/h. All while also letting regional services use the high speed lines. For instance on the first and so far only High speed line, Copenhagen-Køge Nord-Ringsted, there is a flyunder at Køge nord that connects the high speed line to the Little southern railway that goes via Køge to Næstved. Though its currently unused due to delays in the ETCS rollout, but once thats in place next spring, it should allow for half hourly regional trains from the Little southern railway into Copenhagen and out north to Nivå which use the high speed line.
Though already the freight line is used by express regional trains to Nykøbing Falster, and even has bypass tracks intended for freight trains, which also uses the lines here.
Yeah! It’s a more phased but probably also more useful approach (and really more cost effective!)
@@RMTransit Definitely. Also IDK why I wrote freight line at the end, I meant high speed line. But yeah we see freight trains on HSR tracks too. The line is built for 250km/h speeds, but with conventional signals is limited to 180, and even once ETCS is working its limited to 230 due to the rolling stock they got for ETCS tests not being able to go above 256km/h during the testing on the line. Considering we're not planning to buy any trains going faster than 200 anyway though it should be plenty for now.
@@RMTransit An interesting video could be the impact of the Femern Tunnel on NW Europe or the impact on the Brenner base tunnel on the central North/south line corridor.
Here in the US I live in a state that's 9x the size of Belgium with 1/3 the population, always amazes me how populated other places are 🤯
To be fair the Low Countries are some of the highest density countries on earth. Especially the Netherlands with almost 18 million inhabitants on barely 47000 square kilometers
I'm a little bit jealous. There's lots to be grateful for here in the Netherlands and Belgium but I sure wish we were less densely populated sometimes so we could actually have some nature or something.
@@digitalis-y9hthey have far more nature than the less densely populated UK and Ireland.
@@digitalis-y9h theres plenty of nature in Belgium, the Ardennes par example.
The Netherlands might not have much nature, but Belgium has the Ardennes in the south and plenty of Dutch people go there for a taste of nature. Just look at some videos of the Semois Valley here on youtube, it's my fav place in the Ardennes and relatively sparsely populated compared to Flanders and the Netherlands.
The Intercity Direct is one of the best things that happened on Dutch rail in the recent decade in my opinion.
These are great, because they reduce the traveling time a lot. For example: from Rotterdam to Schiphol Airport it takes only 23 minutes with the train, while it takes 41 minutes with car. Same with Breda to Rotterdam, via the HSL: 23 minutes with train and 40 minutes with the car.
not only by Car, normally ya have the IC to Delft-the Hague-Haarlem-Schiphol-Amsterdam CS, which takes about 45 minutes, the ICD cuts that basically in half from Rotterdam to Schiphol :) Worked at Schiphol for 9 months, and had to go by train everyday, I loved the ICD
The ICD used to be super nice. However, nowadays it is suffering many delays. This week only I had delays (10-25 mins) all the times I travelled with it (4 times)
@@ngmulder That is with all the trains sadly....NS made a hughe mess
We'll its only 49 km from rotterdam to schiphol, the only reason it takes so long with the car is because you have to take a detour driving to delft-denhaag-leiden then schipol or els it would take you 30-35 mins.
i have to agree, as a student I use the intercity direct service between schiphol airport and amsterdam centraal every day, though i havent noticed much of the 160 km/h speeds, probably because most of my journey is within amsterdam city limits and is thus restricted in speed to reduce noise pollution. i hope the introduction of the ICNG trains will allow my journey to be even quicker than it already is, since I still have some years to go until I earn my degree
2:57 well there is a continuation of that high speed line from Düren to Cologne, which begins only ~25km behind Aachen, where HSL3 roughly ends.
@Zaydan Naufal what fruit? Haha
The reason line 25N in Belgium runs at a lower speed is to maximise capacity. It is mostly used to run an extremely intensive conventional IC rail service between Brussels and Antwerp, stopping at towns and cities along the way (which makes sense from a Belgian domestic point of view - this area is one of the most densely populated in Europe and many journeys are commuter).
Having the trains all run at the same speed reduces the gap needed between them in the timetable (as faster trains tend to catch up the stopping services). If Eurostars and Thalys were allowed to do 300km/h on it they would need a clear run to get through and the belgian domestic service would suffer.
It's very irritating for Europe's high-speed network (especially on long journeys like the London to Amsterdam Eurostar) but it makes sense from a Belgian domestic point of view because the intensive IC service running trains every couple of minutes is the backbone of the country and a lot more important than a high speed trains running one every hour or so.
25N was always designed to speed up IC services rather than to provide a high speed corridor. The original design speed of ca. 200 kph is a clear indication of that (I expect that in a couple of decades our Intercity's will be running at a higher top speed than they are today, so the line-speed will be increased with no loss in capacity based on the capability of new rolling stock). The only way a true high speed connection is built between Brussels and Antwerp is with lots of European money. It would also be very expensive because you'd have to build lots of tunnels and/or expropriate a lot of suburban homes to get a halfway decent alignement. Of course, you could quad-track the straight part of 25N by reducing the number of lanes of the highway at chokepoints, but then you've only gone halfway and you still have the stretch between Mechelen and Antwerp to contend with. As annoying as the so-called 'gap' is there are a lot of other gaps in the Western-European network that have fewer obstacles to their construction.
Amsterdam-Bremen-Hamburg or Amsterdam-Hannover, the connection Montpellier-Perpignan-Spanish border. (the Spanish line to Barcelona is already there) Of course, the lack of a high speed connection to Luxembourg is also a bit of an issue. To tie things together you'd really need a high speed line that goes Liège-Luxembourg-Nancy-Metz-Strasbourg, but of course, there the Geography makes things very expensive. Now you have make a big detour through Paris or through Germany, or take intercity trains on relatively slow track if you're trying to go North-South along the German Western border.
@@mariusdufour9186 Lets hope that with NMBS consistently buying fast IC's (please, NS take note for the new doubledeckers!) this 200km/h future is not so far. As far as I know, there are zero stops on the 25N line - where would you stop? texaco? - so as soon as all trains that run on this stretch are 200km/h capable, the speed should rise. 200km/h would be indeed the max of this line. A new stretch from Mechelen to Antwerp might shorten journey times, but from the belgian perspective the line would be very expensive for very little saved time. Mechelen would still be a bottleneck, but the station renovation might permit faster through-running. About the line to luxemburg: an EU project existed, EuroCap Rail, but it would originate from Brussels, run to Luxembourg and then onwards to strasbourg. Sadly, it doesn't seem this will be a true high speed line very soon - the geography you mentioned is relevant - but with money from the EU's covid package, Infrabel are finally upping speeds on the Brussels - Luxembourg corridor to a respectable 160km/h.
@@Giruno56 technically, Mechelen is on L25N since short. But the main goal of L25N is also to provide a northerly access to Brussels Airport, which is not on L25N, but which use is inevitable.
There's room for extending L25N towards Antwerpen on the highway median, but only until about Mortsel, where the highway is tunneled. There's also no great entry into Antwerpen-Centraal I can think of without majorly disrupting either the city or train traffic, and without costing fortunes. I'm afraid that we're stuck with our current L25 at least for the moment...
@@Giruno56 The Luxembourg government has been lobbying for that line for a long time but the EU has always dismissed it as a low priority project of only regional concern. Let's not forget that EU leadership just uses private jets or luxury cars to do the 3 hour Brussels-Luxembourg or the 3 hour Luxembourg-Strasbourg trip, so the rail line wouldn't get that much use from higher budget travellers. Building an HSL through the rugged terrain would be prohibitively expensive, and there aren't big enough towns on the Belgian side to justify the cost. The Luxembourgish government already heavily subsidizes the Luxembourg-Liege line because Belgian Rail didn't consider it profitable enough to put newer faster trains on it and upgrade the tracks for them.
@@ricardogens9834 You are right. EuroCapRail will probably never see the light in the form of a seperate high speed line. The existing tracks wind through the terrain and will not allow for much higher speeds than the new 160 limit, although a tilting train might be able to shave a few more minutes from the journey time. Improving the tracks is necessary because as things stand, the quickest route from Brussels to Strasbourg is via Paris, even though this is a massive detour. There is no need for 300 km/h for the whole stretch; as long as the journey time is comparable/ and hopefully quicker than the Paris route it is useful.
Belgium / Netherlands are very well connected - Spent a week combined in both and never needed to worry about how I was going to get to places. Definitely much easier than air travel which is a complete pain!
There are some minor mistakes or things left out of this video.
First of all there is a second train an hour that uses HSL2 the IC12 service between Kortrijk and Welkenraedt.
I also find it weird that line 36N (Leuven-Brussels)wasn't mentioned as an upgraded route to 200km/h. With similar procedures being possible to line 96N, the line connecting HSL 1 to Brussels and L50A (Brussels-Ghent-Brugge).
I also don't get why the plethora of TGV services from Brussels to the south of France weren't mentioned, there might not be a great structure to the timetable but they could have been mentioned.
HSL2, 3 and 4 are in fact equipped with ETCS L2 as well as L1, to allow for more services to use the line, if I'm not mistaken the ICE3M used to not have ETCS L2 and so these lines were signaled with both to allow for them to speed up.
Making a video is definitely a challenge of what to include or not!😅
Actually HSL2 is only equipped with ETCS level 1
I just figured out why I missed IC-12: I had looked at the weekend timetable in order to capture the Kust Express, but then I forgot to set it back to the weekday timetable. Oops.
On weekdays IC-12 runs hourly from Kortrijk to Leuven, but only about half of the trains continue along the HSL to Liège and Welkenraedt. There is no service on weekends.
On weekdays there are also two round trips per day between Bruxelles to Liège and Visé via HSL-2, westbound in the morning peak and eastbound during the afternoon peak.
Correction on your correction, HSL2 is only equipped with ETCS level 1. ICE3M is equipped with ETCS level 2, so no problems there. The shuttle train to Noorderkempen however was served with Desiro MR08 trains, which aren't, but have been replaced since December 2021 with hle18 with M6, which are. Level 1 on HSL3 and 4 is now purely backup, hence why balises haven been installed only every 3 block sections. Speed under Level 1 is restricted to 160 kph for this reason. HSL2 differs, because ETCS replaced the domestic TBL2 system, which meant that there where already balises at each block section. Providing and connecting the balises is the most expensive part of level 1, so when that's already been taken care of...
Also missing in the corrections is ÖBB Nightjet does not use LGV3, in stead it uses the classic route L37 via Verviers, because of missing paperwork. There have plans for a direct IC train to Aachen via LGV3, but no firm decision as of yet.
I do think it's important to mention that the Dutch NS asks an additional fee to use the InterCity Direct, that goes over the HSL while the Belgian NMBS just let you use every possible ticket on the HSL line.
Really nice video on my home country's HS network. Just a quick correction: LGV2 (in english HSL2 in Belgium) is also used for the Welkendraed-Kortrijk operated with "specials" M6 '200' double-deck cars. A few month ago, this service became hourly so the line see now 3 trains per hour in each direction (1 Thalys/ICE and 2 'normal' trainsets)
Hi Reece and Ontario Traffic Man, thank you for your video on Dutch (and Belgian) rail infrastructure! Impressed by how well-informed you guys are! I would love to provide some additional feedback to your video's.
1. (Passport Checks) - The passport checks nowadays are in my opinion well implemented in the Netherlands. The Dutch government together with the UK government have signed a treaty allowing for UK Border checks in the Netherlands. These checks are conducted at both Amsterdam Centraal station and Rotterdam Centraal station. Passengers can clear customs and passport control PRIOR to boarding the train.
2. (Domestic fares) - Domestic train travel on the high speed lines are also accessible when it comes to paying fares. Domestic trains do not require a reservation and only in the Netherlands a small supplement on a train ticket is required on the Schiphol-Rotterdam route. So far I know the supplement fare + regular train ticket is also applicable on the Brussels-Liege route for ICE-trains. The IC-Direct service from Amsterdam to Brussels also doesn't require a reservation and the fare is fixed. This is contrast to Germany f.e. where train travel on high speed lines do not require tickets bought in advance but are highly encouraged given by the immense fare paid for tickets that are not fixed to a specific train (zugbindung).
3. (Planned new routes) - New high-speed rail links are also considered for further complementation of our exisiting high-speed rail network. Interesting is the Lelylijn high-speed link which is planned between Lelystad and Groningen/Zwolle with vmax 200 km/h. Existing rail links between Lelystad and Amsterdam Zuid would see upgrades for increased vmax. Also, the line between Amsterdam-Utrecht is designed for vmax 200 km/h.
4. (Improved rail Belgium/Luxembourg) - In Belgium, construction is underway to increase line speed to vmax 200 (or 160) km/h on some sections between Brussels and Luxembourg City which also would decrease travel time and increase connectivity between both Luxembourg, Belgium and the Netherlands. Completion is foreseen in 2026 (at least...)
5. (Deutschlandtakt) - You have also briefly touched this subject, I see. Just to add: In Germany, regarding Deutschlandtakt, the German government is renewing track and signaling between the Dutch border and Dusseldorf which would also help decrease travel time between Amsterdam-Dusseldorf-Frankfurt, and will also allow for an hourly service if desired. Also, considerations are made to Utrecht-Dutch Border to increase top speed to 200 km/h vmax. This would at least allow for a much faster service.
6. (Off-topic) - When it comes to shared mobility, best practices in both the Benelux/Germany could be implemented in the Windsor Corridor which could boost public transit in this region. So far I have seen, the bottleneck really is with the governments who only have legislation on restricting micromobility where-ever possible and not paying attention to making streets bike friendly. Interesting subject for you perhaps? Would love to help!
I'm hoping, that as soon as the Intercity-tunnel in Frankfurt Hbf is build, they will use one of the old stub end platforms for London-headed trains and implement a suitable check-in there. Eurostar would definitely run this connection but maybe DB would also remember their old Frankfürt-Köln-Brüssel-London plans…
Yes the Frankfurt Intercity tunnel, would be great. The thing is it won't be up before 2045 and it massively depends on wich entrence/exit plans they decide on the east side of the tunnel how effective the tunnel actually will be.
I have recently been using Porto (Portugal) metro and its extended urban lines ... A explainer video on it would be awesome.
Awesome video! I take the HSL Zuid line every day for my commute
😮 very cool! I wish HSLs were part of mine!
This is that video I didn’t know I needed but now I know subconsciously I’ve been wanting a video on this
I’m happy you enjoyed it!
Great video!! Thank you for covering my country :)
That train at 13:45 is delayed by 65 minutes. There are always delays with those german trains
Yeah though it's unusual that the train is already delayed before leaving the Netherlands. Usually it's the trains arriving from Germany which are delayed
@@OntarioTrafficMan true
I’m actually planning on moving to the Netherlands in the future so this video did a great job describing what to expect in terms of train travel and all I can say is this only makes me more excited to move there
To which city are you planning to move to?
@@adem1512 don’t know yet. Maybe Rotterdam because I heard it’s pretty cheap to live
Quick note for around 6:10 about the passport checks. This is actually something that the UK has made impossible. I believe that due to their policy on foreigners the companies are not allowed to check passports when on the way, because someone travelling with an invalid passport after the train has departed Brussels can only be deported when the train arrives in London, but that would mean that they're a refugee and you have all those refugee programs that make that a hassle. Oh and because of the weird way they're doing this now this means that the platforms are legally UK territory when a Eurostar train towards London is at the platform, so it's even illegal for crews not travelling to Londen to be on the platforms. Oh and I think at Brussels they have dedicated platforms with actual gates across the tracks that are only opened when a train departs?
This explains a lot about why it works the way it does. Very interesting!
E* was launched in October 1994. It used London Waterloo at that time. For the first few years there were customs & immigration checks made on board E* when bound for London. The original Alstom units were even fitted with secure 'cells' where suspicious travellers could be detained until the train reached London. The rules changed owing to border controls, immigration and so on.
You're completely right that it's a UK decision. But the "reasons" are all due to UK politics. As mentioned in the video even the US which has a famously hard border, checks the passports onboard. It's why DB decided not to run Frankfurt to London trains. Hopefully one day easy international trains from GB to the Continent will be possible.
@@FiftQuheill
I hope so as well. High speed trains are nice and all, but ideally you'd also have a normal express train from Lille or Paris through the channel and onto the classic lines, or at least a train that doesn't require an expensive reservation.
@@FiftQuheill Indeed and UK Border has strict rules concerning immigration.
Excellent video guys! Some 'fun' things to note:
The Belgians have constructed the first "unofficial" high speed line in the world:
Line 50A(amicably called HSL 0) which was constructed to pretty much to modern high speed rail standards(no grade crossings, very straight design etc) and is being upgraded for 200 Km/h Service speed.
The Bombardier Traxx locomotives are causing excessive wear and tear to the Dutch HSL sections because their axial loading is high and their top-speed is too low.
The top speed of the ICNG is for now currently limited mainly because the increased speed could mess up the current clock-face scheduling cycle that the NS uses. (One of the reasons 25N isn't used to its full potential)
Just a few days ago, the European Comission approved adding the higher-speed 'Lelylijn' to its TEN-T funding project. This line will connect the city of Lelystad with Groningen via the now unserved cities of Emmeloord and Drachten. This project was submitted with the underfunded Wunderline to better connect the north of the Netherlands with the Randstad, Bremen, Hamburg and Copenhagen.
Section Utrecht-Amsterdam was doubled and readied for 25KV AC 200km/h service but the boggy soil found in Holland and Utrecht has allerted Pro-rail to further investigate sections readied for service upgrades. Plans for upgrading Utrecht-Arnhem-Germany are brought up every decade or so.
For more interesting Dutch(written) railplans google Spoorvisie 2040 that will never be implemented under a VVD led government.
I did consider talking about Spoorlijn 50A, but I decided not to because it would make the video too long.
Actually the first "unofficial" HSL in the world is the Great Western Railway from London to Bristol, which was built in 1843 and has been operating at 200 km/h since the 1970's without any major upgrades.
I understand that increasing the scheduled speed differential for ICD trains along the Flevolijn could create more conflicts with Sprinter trains, but they should at least allow trains to run at 200 km/h if they are behind schedule, to improve reliability.
Great video! As someone living in Germany along the Brussels-Liege-Cologne connection, I find it frustrating how underused it is. The HSL 3 is almost empty, and the German side has had some upgrades (half of the line between the border and Cologne has been upgraded to 250 km/h, specifically the half near Cologne), but not really enough. It's embarrassing that Belgium has 300 km/h lines right into France and Belgium, but for Germany, the high speed line stops literally right at the border.
There aren't enough trains either; ICE and Thalys combine to about an hourly service. Demand is there for more, the trains are always full and the Thalys in particular is often booked out days and weeks in advance. There have been ideas to run conventional trains on the line, and that would be great, but nothing much seems to be happening in that regard.
Random fun facts: The connection from Liege to Cologne via Aachen is the oldest international line in Germany, and may be the oldest international line in the world (the sources I found don't seem to be certain, but the line opened in 1843). Trains from Liège to Cologne travel through the oldest still existing rail tunnel in Germany.
HSL 2 is fairly well used, with 2 intercity trains per hour (IC-01 and IC-12) + 1 high speed train per hour (alternating between DB and Thalys), + 2 extra peak-period intercities per weekday + 1 NightJet every other day.
But yes it is frustrating how underused HSL 3 is. It turns out that not even the NightJet uses HSL 3.
Also, George Nagelmackers, who founded the Orient Express, published his first pamphlet on sleeping cars and comfort on train rides in Liège in French, German and Dutch.
That transnational/transcultural region has got something with trains for sure.
Very good video, nice to see something about Belgium :)
Shame you didn't cover the building of the HSR line between Oostende and Brussels though!
Will they build a HSR between Oostende and Brussels?
@@sokisoki5956 They're improving a double track to a quadtrack, the 2 middle tracks will be made to run at 200 km/h, which allows the IC trains to improve their speeds! and improve capacity by a lot
In general we focused on new lines, rather than upgraded lines. We also didn't mention Lijn 36N from Brussel to Leuven which was upgraded to 200 km/h.
@@OntarioTrafficMan i see, thanks for making this video!
@@PTB_BE Sorry dat je je zo voelt, maar 160 km/h is geen hogesnelheidslijn. Lijnen 161 en 162 horen er dus nog steeds niet bij.
We zijn wel lijn 36N vergeten want die rijdt al 200 km/h. Het had tenminste op de kaart moeten staan. Ik heb wel over lijn 50A gelezen en ik twijfelde of ik erover zou spreken aangezien zijn interessante geschiedenis, maar ik heb blijkbaar gemist dat het 200 zou worden anders had ik dat wel gedaan.
Als je je eigen video maak over Hogesnelheidstreinen in de Benelux (of gewoon BeLux) zal ik het zeker kijken en een Like geven!
Very interesting video!
Have to point out that the ÖBB Nightjet actually uses the conventional line between Liège and Aachen (via Verviers and Welkenraedt) instead of the HS3. Never understood why though.
In general, i kinda dream of night trains with modern coaches (by modern I also mean with good sound insulation) capable of at least 230km/h that would make use of the various high-speed lines in Europe to cover even longer distances overnight. That would also increase the use of the HSL's in low traffic periods of the day.
But that's dreaming a bit too big i guess and it's another topic :')
Oh, you're right. My mistake. Strange that they don't use HSL-3. There are very few trains on that line, you'd think that Infrabel wouldn't charge them too much to use it considering hardely anyone else uses it anyway.
I like the potential to use more high speed lines to cover even longer distances with night trains. Some ideas for new overnight services which could be popular:
Paris - Barcelona (1000 km)
Paris - Florence (1200 km)
Amsterdam - Lyon - Marseilles (1200 km) - in the summer
Amsterdam - Lyon - Bourg St Maurice (1100 km) - in the winter
Tokyo - Kagoshima (1300 km)
@@OntarioTrafficMan Nightjet's rolling stock is not allowed on the LGV3, unfortunately. Maybe in the future.
And because they run slower than linespeed, they'd actually have to pay more in track fees as HSTs, as theoretically, they take up more capacity. Yes, it's silly.
Btw: you completely forgot about the upcoming Lelylijn high speed line from Lelystad to Groningen. Construction hasn't started yet, so there is plenty of room for it to be canceled, but it looks promising.
Great collaboration with Ontario Traffic Man.
Since were going to have intercity direct from Amsterdam to Groningen, that line could maybe be extended to Hamburg, since its not far from Groningen and there's also no good transit connection between the 2 (the rail lines literally just stop both sides of the border...). It will also makes travel from the Netherlands to Scandinavia way easier
There used to be a through rail line (though you had to transfer in Leer) but then the bridge across the Ems got damaged.
But yeah, I am pretty sure the original idea of the Zuiderzeelijn was to go Amsterdam-Groningen-Bremen-Hamburg.
@@Zooz. That is: a drunken freight carrier captain knocked out the bridge with his boat. Seven friggin' years ago.
You don't mention the little known fact that the trains in Belgium ride on the left (as they also do in the UK and France) and then change over to the right in Holland and that that also applies to the high speed lines in those countries.
Why would we mention that? It's not relevant to the discussion of HSR services. I did film a separate video on that topic which I haven't edited yet.
@@OntarioTrafficMan Why not mention it? I would have thought it's a further characteristic of interest of the high speed lines in those countries that most people may not be aware of.
@@OntarioTrafficMan From Belgium the tracks also change over to the right when crossing into Germany which, like Holland, also rides on the right.
@@peterphillips8893 Because we didn't want the video to be hours long, so we had to select only the most important characteristics to include in the video.
Interesting fact about the conventional trains on the Dutch High speed lines is because these trains run to slow at 160 km/h on line designed for 300 km/h the slow trains damaged the rails on the line. The combination of the weight of the line and the lower speeds in the banked corners the forces on the track became to high, creating studs in the rails. This resulted in a 50 million Euro in extra costs. A software update in the Traxx locomotives made the issue manageable, but it will only be fully solved when they are replaced by the new trains. Although that is not yet clear as the new trains will also run to slow with their max speed of 200km/u.
If you want to run conventional trains on a high speed line you will have to take this kind of operation into account in the design of the line. This means that you will have to reduce the banking of the corners, which results in either lower speeds or a larger radius of the corners. Most German high speed lines were designed for conventional operations, expect for the Cologne - Frankfurt line. The HSL Zuid was designed more like the French LGV lines and didn't take this into account. But nobody ever envisaged that it would take more then 13 years after the opening of the line before we would operate dedicated fast trains on domestic services over the line.
Fun fact: The Amsterdam - Utrecht line has been quadruple tracked with the idea of allowing 200 kmh services on the outside 2 tracks. For that, the signaling would need to be updated to ERTMS, which is ongoing and the catenary would need to be changed from 1500v to 25kv ac, which will hopefully happen some time soon.
These 2 tracks normally have 12 intercity trains an hour, which is pretty crazy for heavy rail. (sadly, currently reduced due to staff shortages)
The line already has ERTMS but it is currently only used by ICE trains. The current proposal from ProRail is actually to increase the voltage to 3kV DC because it's simpler.
@@OntarioTrafficMan 3kv DC seems very silly though. I guess it's better than 1500v, but if you're going to have dual voltage trains and all the complexity, you might as well go all the way, plus if Lelylijn gets built, we'll need a lot more 25kv capable trainsets anyways. We'll see, I guess.
@@b127_1 Yes I agree with you - I would also prefer 25kV rather than 3kV. It is more expensive though.
@@b127_1 while 3 kV is not as good, it would still double the current capability of 1.5 kV, while technically, the systems are much closer. Belgian domestic trains (who run on 3 kV) have been running under Dutch overhead wires for decades, just at half power. Adapting NS trains to run also under 3 kV would be relatively easy. It's a lot cheaper to implement on the infrastructure level, the substations are already in place, there's no need for bigger clearances at bridges and in tunnels (which would be the case with 25 kV AC)...
I'm not against changing to 25 kV, but it would be something that takes decades to do (just look at Czechia). I'm hopeful 3 kV could be done faster.
@@b127_1 The issue with 25kv is that it requires a full replacement of the infrastructure, including the introduction of phase locks. Technically the lines currently run 1800v DC because it guarantees a minimum of 1500v on the line.
I am happy that my country the Netherlands has several high-speed trains. The US doesn't even have normal high-speed trains!
In Germany, IRE 1 trains between Karlsruhe and Stuttgart use a short portion of the Mannheim-Stuttgart high speed line.
IRE lines are limited regional express trains also using conventional rolling stock. The IRE 1 mentioned above uses 160 kph FLIRT 3 EMUs.
Also between Munich and Ingolstadt.
and soon beetwenn Wendlingen - Ulm
Nice video! SNCF also has direct TGV services from Brussel to French cities other than Paris such as Marseille, Rennes, Montpellier and Bordeaux.
Aren't most of those services only seasonal though, still requiring a connection with a station change in Paris for most of the year?
@@rjfaber1991 These are actually all year-round direct services operated by TGV InOUI (different from the seasonnal Thalys "snow" and "sun"). Generally it's only one or two roundtrips per day but still quite convenient.
@@SpectreMk2 Okay, nice! So are they direct services using the Interconnection Est, or do they still call at Gare du Nord and then back out again?
@@rjfaber1991 They do indeed by-pass Paris via Massy TGV (only if you come from the Atlantique HSL) and then Marne la Vallée and CDG on the Interconnection Est.
@@SpectreMk2 I see. That makes sense.
Yes!! I've been looking forward to this video!! 😄
In fact, you can indeed go high speed between Köln and Düren, as soon as the train line has passed the narrow curves around the hills near Aachen. This high speed line is, anyhow, not clearly designated as such, but it uses LZB in-cab signalling at speeds up to 250 km/h.
Oh wow, I missed that in the research. I saw that it was designated as an upgraded line, but I thought the speed was 200 km/h.
@@OntarioTrafficMan nope, it is being used together with regional traffic, but it qualifies as high-speed line. Another line classified as upgraded is the Hamburg-Berlin mainline where trains run up to 230 km/h as a rule, but combined with freight traffic and regional trains at reasonably lower speeds. For the Aachen-Köln line, there is a relief trunk line for freight traffic close by, and the main line has separated tracks for the Köln-Düren S-Bahn trains, so that regional or long-distance through traffic can go fast to Düren and Aachen. Between Düren and Aachen, the regional trains are provided with platforms in Köln-Ehrenfeld and Horrem on the fast tracks.
6:55 KLM and Air France are not just SkyTeam Members, they are the same company. They merged in the early 2000's.
They're subsidiaries of the same company. Not really the same thing.
@@therealdutchidiot They are officially subsidiaries for legal reasons, in practice they are much closer to being the same company.
@@apveening No, they're owned by the same company. A parent company named Air France-KLM. That's how it was set up years ago. KLM and Air France still operate under their own names.
@@therealdutchidiot I never denied that, but it is more of an official fiction than reality.
@@apveening Except it's not. They're all distinct companies with their own management staff, including CEO.
Excellent video. I have been on the Thalys from Rotterdam to Paris return. Its about 2.5-3 hour ride having attained the maximum speed of 300 kmh. Very smooth too. I also have been on the ICE 3 from Frankfurt to koln. Same speed but not as smooth as the Thalys.
Different suspension... distributed power than the older loco at each end.
Fun fact: Belgium has the very first high speed rail! Built in the interbellum: a second rail between Brussels and Ghent with no level-crossings and no stations in between and almost a perfect straight line.
The Florida Brightline, Extension that is almost Highspeed Rail at 110 test that just happened last week
Just come back to the UK from Belgium (by train from the Brussels city to the car park then car + eurotunnel) so can’t wait to see this!
We took the eurotunnel rather than the Eurostar simply because of the price! Had to park in the airport parking in Brussels and take the train into the city though because we couldn’t prove that the car meets euro 5 standards even though it does.
If anyone is thinking of going to Brussels I would say you should! Transport there is amazing and the city centre is very walkable.
The cars generally stop for pedestrians waiting to cross too which is amazing! Transport from the airport (where we parked) is very efficient but if you are coming from the UK as a single traveller or couple (or can afford the Eurostar as a family) id say the Eurostar is easier because it takes you right into the city.
Do you have a series on shut down rail systems? And the struggle to revive them?
Vancouver Island has been trying to petition to get their railway back operational. There used to be rail to the ferries and it's been over a decade since they were last operational.
Insane, I just finished watching video about why the Netherlands does not have domestic flights.
In fairness it’s so tiny though, like here in Ireland most domestic flights are to serve areas with poor land connections and even good land transport would still make them fairly hard to reach. I use domestic only really for connecting flights really because getting to the main Dublin airport as non driver is an absolute ordeal but NL is probably the size of like 2 Irish countries and is flat, so it’s much easier. I wonder does Belgium have them?
Netherlands used to have domestic flights but no more. These were feeder flights for KLM into Schiphol. KLM still operates several flights a day (as feeders) for BRU-AMS even though the air mileage is just over 100 !
Indeed!
@@sams3015 as a Belgian I can tell you domestic commercial flights are "planely" illegal :)
Considering the small size of our country, domestic flights would be kind of pointless. If I would have to travel from the most southern part to the most northern part of the Netherlands it would be a 3.5 hour 350 kilometre or 220 mile drive. Considering you have to get to and from the airports, check in and out it you bring some luggage and have your flight, you would probably take longer and pay more. Even travelling by train would only take 4 hours. Mind you, there is no high speed rail on this side of the Netherlands. Public transport is not cheap, driving with one passenger would be cheaper with an economical car than taking the train together.
The French TGV does run to Luxembourg, and its currently constructing a new line to the south bypassing a couple of stations to create more capacity
It's really just skipping one station. The main reasons for building it are, like you said, more capacity is needed, specifically for the Luxembourg to Thionville (France) line, which is the highest frequency cross-border trainline in Europe, and over capacity at rush hour, and the Luxembourg to Esch-sur-Alzette line (Lux's 2nd city). As the new line is an almost straight shot between Luxembourg City and the Bettembourg Junction, it will allow higher speed service, which will shave off about 5 to 10 minutes compared to the old mainline, since it has 2 tight-ish curves. It won't be a highspeed line, but it might help the TGV shave off those 5 to 10 minutes as well.
I searched RMTransit library of published videos and I did not find any presentation for the Moroccan Al Boraq HSR? Did I miss it somewhere, or is this a Europe/Asia only thing?
Would add 2 things here: (1) while there is no dedicated HSL in Luxembourg, the French TGV actually does go there from Paris, Montpellier and Marseille (via the LGV Est). Also the Bxl - Lux line is currently being upgraded. While not HSL it might allow through running services (a propper Benelux train) going forward. This will depend though on the final speeds achieved.
A through-running Benelux train is not very practical. It's a long ride and those trains would have to change directions at Brussels North and it's a very long run for few travelers
meanwhile switzerland not needing hsr because the cities are close together but still making the gottard base tunnel for the efficiency of other countries
Well, I think Switzerland could benefit! Zurich to Geneva is still a pretty long ride iirc!
one thing i'd like to note is that between brussels and just outside of gent there is a small hsl like track (sort of like the hanzellijn) which was originally built for the thalys extension to oostende
if said train is equipped with etcs and can operate faster than 160 kmh they are allowed to go at 200 kmh
Love how we’re talking about the Hanzelijn at a time when it’s been disrupted for months due to a 1000x surge in the power and signalling circuits 😅
That really deserves its own YT video.
Another small thing: the line from Brussels to Gent, and then onwards to Oostende, is sometimes called HSL 0 due to its very straight alignment and lack of level crossings. Efforts are made now to increase speeds and quad track the corridor. This would allow running at 200km/h one day...
what i think is also thoughtfull, is that along a lot of those trainlines, cities/towns build cycling "highways" along those lines !
As someone living in the netherlands all i want is the highspeed line that goes to groningen to continue to hamburg and maybe even further to denmark.
This video is actually better made then the services they talk about xD
I just recently took the NS international trains from Amsterdam to Brugge. I’m glad this was mentioned! As much as I love HSR, this NS public line was actually much more convenient. It was cheaper, didn’t require reserved seats, was very flexible (making us less stressed as travel plans frequently evolve, so we could take any train that day with our tickets), and was only about an hour longer than the Thalys (4 hours total vs 3). Granted, Thalys would have only gone to Brussels, but still! I wish more intercity trains had this option.
13:30 I have never heard of those plans for a partially highspeed line from Cologne to Utrecht, where did you get that information?
As I know, they are just upgrading the line via Emmerich to 3 tracks right now (which is stupid, should be 4 tracks), but that is not a highspeed line
In Belgium, the implementation of High-Speed train and construction of HSL was completely phased.
When the First TGV ran from Paris to Brussels, only the French part was High-speed.
And slowly, but surely, the HSL were build up to enhance the service between those 2 cities lowering the travel time from 2h15 to 1h35.
Even the entrance in Brussels south station was build afterwards to gain the last 5 minutes on travel time.
That's one of the big advantages of the multicurrent feature of the Thalys PBA & PBKA (Paris-Brussels-Köln-Amsterdam) is that they can run on conventional line if the HSL is not (yet) ready.
The Portuguese plans seems similar. But since we've been waiting for so many years, I'll believe it when I see it
More high speed rail is something the world definitely needs!
I'm interning for a company that designs the layout and graphics of these trains and this was really helpful thank you
Good video, just a shame we didn't get to hear you break your tongue on all of those Dutch words and city names 😆
I’m happy my tongue got a rest!
A video going more in depth about Seoul's GTX would be great. There's not much English language information about it aside from it's a fast regional train that's planned. SK has the HSR from its capital Seoul to its southern port city Busan and each city has its own metro that extends out to the suburbs, but an express service for those suburbs to the city center could be a really valuable middle option. Of course, I say this as a tourist who was crashing with someone I knew in the suburbs and took an hour metro to Seoul.
I do like your videos but some of the info in here is a little outdated. It's been pointed out below by someone else already that infrastructure for passport-control in both Dutch stations in the north has been improved over the last year, which was an absolute dealbraker in choosing the train over(/under?)seas or not.
There is also a quick intercity line between Gent and Brussels. Pretty sweet, 30 mins to center of brussels with like 3 to 4 trains an hour. By car it is horror haha
The interruption at the Belgian-German border is just a few kilometers though, the highspeed part continues in Düren, into Cologne and then further toward Frankfurt etc.
hopefully in the future the connection through brussels and the line to Antwerp get fully upgraded but NMBS has many other priorities atm
@@holygooff while a proper HSL is not really needed, extra capacity would be welcome. With a scheduled 6 ICs an hour (2 of which stop at Mortsel-Oude-God and Mechelen-Nekkerspoel, further reducing capacity), and Thalys and Eurostar, and an additional IC around Mechelen (train from Turnhout) L25 is practically at capacity between Antwerpen and Mechelen during the week.
When discussing E* one point not mentioned was its 30% capacity cut at StPancras London. E* has had to limit capacity *from* London because, with extra checks now required 'cos of Brexit it cannot process pax in a timely manner. This news was confirmed by former CEO M Damas a few weeks ago (before he stepped down from his post) to our parliament's Hugh Merriman MP. It means that E* fares are very high ex-London ...because of these capacity limitations. It's unclear when the capacity restrictions will be lifted.
I suspect that this comment will not mean much to non-British readers. I am British, but I had to stop and think, what does he mean by E*? Alex means 'Eurostar', the operator of the high-speed trains through the channel tunnel. The letter Alex refers to is to Huw Merriman, chair of the UK parliament's Transport Select Committee. St Pancras can now process only a maximum of 1500 passengers per hour, compared with 2200 in 2019. See Today's Railways Europe issue 321 at page 6.
YES OH MY GOD THANK YOU REECE
I, Roger Sexton, am a fairly frequent visitor to the Benelux. This video is a very fair representation of the current situation. However, one word of caution. Currently (Autumn 2022) the DB ICE service running Brussels-Cologne-Frankfurt mentioned at 5m 34s is EXTREMELY UNRELIABLE. See, for example, the letter at page 15 of Today's Railways Europe issue 321 and also the editorial in the same magazine's issue 319. DB is currently in a horrendous mess. On the Brussels-Frankfurt route the situation is, I believe, exacerbated by a shortage of ICE units which can run under 3000 volts DC.
Correct. So many rail fans looked forward to sampling the ICE to or from Brussels but were disappointed. Either the ICE failed en route or else when Brussels-bound, it terminated at Cologne or Aachen. This summer DB had to introduce a reduced timetable for this route.
I love the Dutch network. So good that the cities don’t even have suburban/commuter rail networks because the national rail is so good
I absolutely disagree with the statement that it might be better to check Eurostar passengers in London.
Security checks are still required for trains through the Chunnel, meaning you still have all the facilities and people checking in. Given you have to check people anyway, it also makes sense to check their passports. This also means you don't have to get off your train and then go through a massive queue. St Pancras is capable of conducting passport checks on arrival - which was done for arrivals from Marne La Vallee - but not other terminals.
Remember when E* was first launched all passport checks were carried out onboard the train. It was only later, with the growth in illegal immigration, that the present system was introduced. Those Alstom sets even came with secure 'cells' where suspicious pax could be detained until the train reached its destination.
Agreed, also Eurostar sets seat a lot of passengers, so if they'd have to pass through immigration all at the same time upon arrival the queues would be much longer than in the current situation, where passengers get checked as they arrive at their own pace. The missed potential for Eurostar as an intra-shengen operator is unfortunate, but for actual trips to the UK the current system is absolutely fine.
They could always drop the security checks. It's very unlikely that they will, due to politics, but the checks are just security theatre. Switzerland has longer rail tunnels with higher speeds and doesn't need any of that.
Small comment about the HSL3 ending at the border, after about 30km there is another highspeed capable line from Düren to Cologne. But yeah, no way of continuing at high speeds after Aachen until you get to Düren.
I love how the last shot is of an ICE train with over an hour of delay.
Dutch high speed rail is adequate, but there is so much more potential. For example the intercity from Amsterdam to Berlin actually only has gotten slower the past decades.
The connections into Germany definitely could be much better!
Who would want to go to Berlin, when most of Germany is closer and better connected?
there will be new trains end of next year
Great video! Your Dutch pronunciation sounds perfect!
I took HSR from CDG to Brussels, in one direction on TGV and the other on Thalys.
Its ridicilous how well Belgium specifically Bruxelles is connected to Germany (Frankfurt/Koln), Netherlands (Rotterdam, Amsterdam) , Great Britain (London) and France (Paris, Lille). Its like the High speed central station of Western Europe
Yeah, and they have been doing most of that under the radar. If Belgium ever comes to rebuilding it's Brussels-South station, it could indeed become a HSR hub for all of Western-Europe.
something i find very interesting is that arriva and qbuzz, who are owned by db and trenitalia, both have talked about starting high speed services between amsterdam and paris to compete with the eurostar group!
you forgot one more ICE which goes from Amsterdam to Frankfurt and back
But both the ICE's don't follow a highspeed track, they do however go over a freight line but they often drive between 80 and 160kph
Between Cologne and Frankfurt it goes 300km/h for a bit. At least the one in the morning, maybe some others still use the older line.
Someone please make that 39 days in service video, that is definitely history that needs to be remembered.
There are a couple out there, sadly all in Dutch. One of them talks about how it was a predictable failure.
I started making English subtitles for an excellent Dutch video by RailRides which includes this topic, but TH-cam removed the community captions feature before I got to the part on the Fyra
A pretty good effort but not perfect. Just a few things that weren't mentioned:
- Little known fact: Belgium has the first "dedicated high speed train line", 50A, dating back to 1923-1933 (used at 140 kph at the time!). No at-grade crossings, with Bruxelles-Midi and Ghent S.P. as its only stations on the eastern half of the line.
- The "normal" Belgian intercity network is gradually being upgraded to a 160 or 200 km/h standard. This is already the case on one of your "missing links", namely line 36N Brussels-Leuven, connecting HSL 2 to Brussels, which has been at v200 for almost two decades. Line 50A is up next for a v200 upgrade, which will mean that IC-1 should be able to run at 200 kph on most of its course. All SNCB mainline intercity rolling stock acquired since 1995 is compatible with these standards, maybe apart from the M6 carriages (2006) that needed to be modified from v160 to v200.
Kortrijk-Welkenraedt domestic intercity trains also use the HSL2 between Leuven and Liège, and line 36 between Leuven and Brussels has quadruple track with a top speed of 200 km/h for the inner two pairs of track to accomodate the international high-speed trains to Germany.
Leuven is quite odd, it's a big rail hub for Belgium but ICE and Thalys trains pass through the station going 200 km/h (an audio warning tells passengers to stay away from the platform edge)
Amsterdam-Paris is 3h15m but its actually faster than the 1 hour flight. Just the regional RER train from Paris-Charles de Gaulle airport to Paris city center takes 50 minutes by itself. Then there is of course the security and check in hassle to deal with. With the Thalys train, you can literally arrive 5 minutes before your departure, step on, put your luggage in the rack and sit and relax in you comfy seat while enjoying the landscape.
Correction on the San Joaquins and CA High Speed Rail comment. The San Joaquins will continue to use its current alignment through the Central Valley as a local service connecting to the more spread out High Speed Rail stations. Passengers will be able to transfer directly to San Joaquins and ACE trains at Merced to reach Sacramento or the Bay Area until the direct high speed rail tracks are completed between Merced and Gilroy.
That makes slightly more sense, but it still seems such a waste of valuable infrastructure. If you have it, just use it to its full capacity, instead of continuing to operate on worse parallel infrastructure.
I mean that only makes the criticism more valid. The San Joaquins will run at the (current) slow speed in the old allginment, even though the trains themselves could operate at a higher speed if they were allowed on the HSR line. That's a massive waste.
According to page 110 of the "California High Speed Rail Early Train Operator Central Valley Segment System Management & Operations Interim Financial Plan" (June 2020):
"San Joaquins and ACE trains approaching Merced from the north will switch from the BNSF tracks (Stockton Subdivision) to Union Pacific tracks (Fresno Subdivision) through
cross-over tracks or “The Loop”, also referred to as the Merced Intermodal Train Connection (MITC) [...] and will terminate at the future Merced High-Speed Rail Station"
On page 112 you can see a service diagram confirming that the San Joaquins ends at Merced.
On page 113 you can see that the planned HSR service is only 1 train per hour on opening day. Plenty of room for the San Joaquins to share the line. In comparison, the HSL Zuid has up to 7 trains per hour (2 high speed and 5 intercity).
Man do I love living in Europe! Not everything’s perfect, but stuff like this gives me hope that we’ll one day be able to fully ditch shorthaul flights in all of Europe.
@7:00 Not only KLM and Air-France are members of Skyteam, they are actually a single company, Air-France/KLM.
I'd love to see you cover the Brussels transit network, if only because the metro stations look eerily like the Montréal metro stations.
I live in cologne and had no idea there are plans for a high speed line cologne - Amsterdam. Very interesting indeed!
What is the situation regarding Düsseldorf? Will Düsseldorf be bypassed entirely, will there be higher speed tracks between cologne and Düsseldorf or will services share tracks with existing ones? The infrastructure in the Rhine Ruhr region and along the Rhine is operating maximum capacity, so more services would only stress the system more unfortunately
I travelled to these two countries several months ago and actually had a chance to ride on the Thaleys train from Amsterdam to Brussels. Albeit the train is really nice and going fast, I can't help noticing that the travel time between these two cities (170km apart) hits almost 2 hours, whilst the even longer Paris-Brussels Eurostar (260 km) takes only 1hr20m. Even the UK trains operating on WCML can travel between London and Birmingham (also 170km apart) in 1hr 20 min with only a top speed of 200 kph. There's certainly a bit to improve!
A Video about the ICE from Germany would be awesome. Love your videos
Interesting to see AnsaldoBreda managing to mess up catastrophically. The M32 model trams in Gothenburg have created a lot of issues and had to be partly rebuilt by another company because they kept failing at fixing them. Apparently they suck at building good trains as well.
6:58 Air france and KLM are part of the Air France-KLM group
Can you do a video abput italy HST frecciarossa & italo?
It's amazing that the ~200 year old train is still the most efficient form of moving people between cities. I feel like personal automobiles are merely a phase before we solve the last mile problem in the most convenient and cheap way.
Mentioning KLM and Airfrance, not only they both skyteam members but in fact the same company
Because it seems that once a HSR corridor is opened in Belgium/the Netherlands conventional trains coming from destinations further afield switch to that alignment, what happens to stations and track along the original, lower-speed one? Are they still served by some sort of local or all-stop train, or just abandoned entirely?