The Genetic Heritage Of The Carcharodons - 40K Theories
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2024
- The Carcharodons are a chapter notorious for their savagery, yet the source of their gene-seed remains officially unknown. From which of the first founding Legions could this chapter be descended from?
This video is an updated and remastered version with additional information and higher quality audio.
Additional Narration by Stephanie Swan Quills
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Featuring Earndil as Bar’Ghul
Intro Theme by Stringstorm
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*Carcharodons:* _Gets mentioned_
*Lamenters:* _[Chapter-wide PTSD intensifies]_
[laughs in Executioners]
@skullpull 101 SKUZE ME, I T'INK YOUZ WUZ FORGETTIN' THE BEST BOYZ WOT FAIGHTZ DA BEAKIEZ!
Except the Lamenters were wrecked by the Minotaurs, not the Space Sharks. They wrecked the Mantis Warriors. And their planet
And people say that the marine malevolents are bad
I mean That was the Minotaurs. The Carcharodons were the ones who vibechecked the mantis warriors
no one, absolutely no one:
*Jaws theme starts playing*
Tau Empire: (concerned face intensifies)
Fire warrior: we're gonna need a bigger battlesuit.
@@owlsayssouth "That's Por'Garner's starship... Its been *Chewed* up!"
“Why do I here boss music?!” - Tau FireWarrior
@@UncleHaul No, that's when the Flesh Tearers show up, since they are an entire chapter of Doomguys
"Space shark, do de do"
Man Emperor of Mankind: I approve of melee combat. Carry on, Space Guppies.
Praise the man emperor of mankind!
No the the qoute is "who wouldn't want to engage in glorious melee combat"
@Drew Austin no
@Dorian Kace bot
I read that in the TTS voice
I think that the Charcarodons Astra being loyalist Night Lords and the Legacy of Sevataar is far more compelling.
I think the Ashen Claws heritage is better and the right. The old wierd myth that they are Night Lords don't fit. But, we are all different 😊
But there are mutch better loyalist successors to the Night Lords then The Charcharodons... So for me the Ashen Claws teori make them more fun and uniqeu. If you whant to play loyalist Night Lords, you can always choose the Star Phantoms or Death Spectres (two really cool chapters that mite be from the Night Lords).
But if you want to play space sharks as Night Lords successors, go for it 😊
Cheers 😊👍🏻
I think it would be cool if they were world eaters and Nightlords.
But give them blood thirst like the blood Angels so they can be extra sharky.
@@SigfridSWE primarch corvus corax
No night lords
They are pretty well confirmed to be Raven Guard. Old Terran XIXth Legion under the command of Shade Lord Arkhas Fal (Arkhas being an anagram of "A Shark").
Tho I did want them to be Night Lords so badly. Like I REALLY REALLY did. They aren't. :(
Sevetar talks a lot about "Blind Sharks" that swam the oceans of his homeworld
Sevatar is from terra, so maybe an analogy?
@@Dragunov212 He specifically says blind sharks of Nostramo* I actually forgot he was Terran, my mistake! The quote is from the Long Night, I'm surprised he missed that one... Or maybe he didn't and I missed him mention it.
There's another reference to it in Soul Hunter. One of the main characters recalls the "blind sharks" that swam Nostramo.
I think they're actually a mix of renegade Night Lord's and the Ashen Claws Corvus ousted from the Legion.
So their gene seed wouldn't be a splicing of the two, I think that they're just intermingled. Some of the Space Marines would be Raven Guard descendents, others would be Night Lord's.
@@Dragunov212 wrong, Jago Sevatarion born on Nostramo Quintus.
@@frankrue5071 He's a Terran.
@@boutinpowered8373 nope, it states that Sevatar was born in City's Edge, Nostramo Quintus in Prince of Crows.
We're gonna need a bigger battle barge.
One of the more interesting aspects of the Carcharodons chapter is that, outside of combat, they are some of the most polite and respectful astartes around. They seem to defer to authority and address others with noble and even archaic terminology. While in battle they're only concerned with the most brutally effective strategies and seem genuinely confused when others don't anticipate their actions, they will stoically if not gladly accept orders that other chapters might consider degrading.
Sorta makes me think of the Carcharodons as the Incredible Hulk: calm and polite until the fighting starts, then they're collateral damage incarnate.
You forgot a big point
In the book Corax (Primarch serie) one of the raven guard talk about what could be the carcharodons
He say that a part of the terrans where used to fight with the night lords and become like them before the primarch exile them to the darkness of space
Sevatar said"I am justice. I am judgement. And I surrender." My HERO.
Fuck yes!
The audio version is better than this one.
Mantis warriors: *exist*
Charcharadons: “vibe check”
At first I thought they were the Raven Guard Terran contingent exiled when Corax reunited with his Legion. But in the Outer Dark novel (if I remember correctly), the Pale Nomad went with his student to a planet sacred to the chapter. They went in some sort of dark cave to see a sculpture or a painting representing their origin. The student was shocked, so I would assume that if they were from loyalist, he wouldn’t have such a reaction. They must be descendent from traitor Legion.
I still suspect that they are angrons boys from way back before he went batshit on the chapter, or maybe a lost primarch was a shark, we have a, salamander, a raven, a wolf, and a lion why not a shark :D
@@Ravenblues And now I'm picturing the scene from Moana where he had human legs and a shark head.
@@coriusfarinprimarchofthese7007 given russ I would say that is pretty accurate!
My headcanon; Ashen Claws, Sevetar found his way home, realised that they were in a perfect place for him to join them, caused a bit of a schism, took some Ashen Claws with him and formed the Carcharadon Astra.
Potentially stole some of his own legions' gene seed and maybe some loyal members when he went to the darkness. Also, I think Valzen, cheif apothecary of the Night Lords also sided with Sevatar and was incarcerated with him.
Potentially he was also a Carcharadon founder and worked to chimerise the Night Lord and Raven Guard genetic material to produce an early stock of honogenous gene seed to found their new chapter with.
Also one of Sevatar’s inner circle was a Raven Guard who defected, Alastor Rushal
Yo trueee I forgot about Arusha because for the most part in the novels he is very quiet and rarely actually speaks.
@@eversobritish1335 His nickname is "The Raven", right?
@@jirojhasuo2ndgrandcompany745 yes
@@F4GRAPHICS he doesn’t speak because his tongue was ripped out
I don't think Roboute is sending these guys Primaris Marines anytime soon.
They don't need fucking primaris
The author of Red Tithe and Outer Dark said they will not receive Primaris from Mars, but they will be able to gene-forge their own Primaris.
Primaris night lords. A terrifying thought.
The Carcharodons have so many bad mood swings, they would use Primaris marines as chapter serfs!!!
@@carljohnson-up3gm And the strongest of these Serfs would be inducted as actual members of the chapter as per their traditions.
Raven guard /Nightlord Chimera
Possibly but both the raven guard and night lord legions have simmular geneseed flaws it could be either legion
This is what I always thought the best of both, just let loose to hunt. Yet the oldest members are most likely loyal ravens and lords
@@fambofambo7940 The Fear mongering just takes a less drawn out form. They could have easily shed the long term stuff because it may lead to old habits too easily.
They talk about "The Forgotten One". Does anyone else remember that the 2 lost Primarchs are referred to as "The Forgotten" and "The Purged"? I bet they are remnants of one of the Lost Primarchs' chapters.
GW is too stupid to think of that.
@@mattaffenit9898 Agreed. Sadly, the Lost Primarchs are written to be lost/erased to allow creative freedom in the creation of personal Space Marine armies. If we had all twenty(-one) Primarchs, we’d have to either have true-to-Gods Chapters we’re playing or we’d have to make splinters of the Traitor Legions.
As viable as both these options are, we still have to account for the fact that GW isn’t subtle like that. They wrote up two Primarchs to be forgotten and purged, before forgetting about them. If they’d wanted to use the two lost Primarchs for anything, we’d have had them in the stories to begin with.
Wait. Tybaros is the same height of a primarch. Sounds plausible
@@wyvernnemecek595
Considering how utterly fucked the Imperium's records are, they don't even have that much of a meta function amongst Loyalist chapters. So many of them ate probably forgotten Smurf successors that I don't even want to think about how many sanctimonious Robutian assholes are rampaging across the galaxy without even knowing Guilliman sired them and that's why they're pretentious shitstains.
It also must be stated, as a Blood Angel after Amit and Seth's style, that since there are more Ultramarine successors than any others, more Smurf successors have by default fallen to Chaos than any other legion. Just saying. I'm not insinuating Macragge should be disapoofed and Ultramar at large should be utterly glassed, I'm just saying I wouldn't complain if the Smurfs actually suffered a fucking setback for once in five Throne-damned editions and maybe a certain jackass captain didn't come back from being disintegrsted. I hold no ill will toward the Thirteenth whatsoever and have nothing but respect and adoration for the Legion-Gutter's work, and I'm definitely not holding some sort of childish grudge for slamming his giant unwanted fleet full of heretical abominations and "saving" Baal from a perfectly good fight and "rescuing" Dante from an honorable death.
I'm not bitter at all.
Glory hogs, all of them, Emperor damn their blue-plated asses...
I don't think "forgotten and the purged" were meant as formal names, just a dramatic way of saying they were gone.
I'd say no on the lost Legion link though, there's too much evidence of them being either RG successors, or chimeric RG/NL. And it seems like GW have an in-house policy to never confirm what happened to the lost Legions.
Orcs: *Talks crap about the Carcharodons*
Tyberos: "Say that again?"
Chymeric geneseed night lords/raven guard or just loyalist night lords
Loyalist nightlords leading raven-nightlord chimaera marines
Pre-Corax Raven Guard shock troopers
@@doc_havoc00heavywing37 I don't think the Ashen Claws would show such animosity to Carcharadons if they were both true Raven Guard descendants
Captain Viktor Grim thunder warriors?
@@The_Murder_Party That would be cool lol.
It's always good when creators go back and remaster their older work.
From the Street Sharks, pre-Golden Age
This is gold 😂👍
I'm still holding out hope that they are one of the lost legions made to atone for the mysterious sins of their Primarch.
Given the general level of subtlety in naming that the primarchs have, I imagine his name would be “Shahr K Toothy”
@@themecoptera9258 idk their names don't seen so on the nose tbh, maybe Corvus and Ferrus, otherwise Guilliman, Horus, Magnus, Leman don't seem that bad
and tyberos is secretly a primarch..... the dude is massive after all
@@bloodangel19 Lion El’Jonson is a pretty on-the-nose name for the primarch based on a combination of King Arthur and Richard I. It’s also a brilliant descriptor of his character, being a totally solitary being, one who could only be matched by 1 other primarch in combat. He is also stated to be the most kinglike Primarch in a couple books, and given his propensity for hunting things... pretty on-the-nose indeed.
@@Mr.Monacle how tf did i miss that one
There was a Raven Guard (Alastor Rushal) among the Kyroptera of the Night Lords. Seems like the ideal master for a chimeric chapter.
The fact that pre-Corvus Terran borned ravenguard used the same terror tactics as the Nightlord makes Cacharodon's savage nature reasonable
With their famous battlecry "You're gonna get your fucking heads kicked in!"
Hahaha class 😂
@40k theories I have heard that The Ultramarines also took in loyalists marines from traitor legions as they escaped the purging of loyalist remnants in said legions adopting then as brothers
Because Ultramarines are Bros like that
@@lukasperuzovic14293 years later and thia comment smacks 😂
Ave Dominus Nox. The Night Lords redemption made flesh.
My theory is that they are exiled Raven Guard mutants that Croax couldn't bring himself to kill, as they were just a little messed up. They wondered the void fighting what they could until they found a hulking warrior that no one could identify, but it was obvious that he was an Adeptus Astartes so they captured him and slowly brought him around to join the Carcharodons as his fighting ability was unmatched. He is eventually given the nickname "the Red Wake" and made Chapter Master. The reality is, this figure is a lobotomized Curze that survived the Assassination attempt and the Night Haunter side of his psyche was killed off. This explains his size and speed, and his love of lightning claws and carrying around skulls. Just a theory...
They charge into battle singing the terrifying war song "Spacey Shark doo doo doo doo doo doo, Spacey Shark doo doo doo doo doo doo"
😂😂🦈🦈
I just want you to know that I despise everything about you. The f*cking tune is stuck in my head.
I hate how hard I laughed at this
Emperor shark doo doo doo doo doo, Emperor shark doo doo doo doo doo
@@coriusfarinprimarchofthese7007 Good good. Let the hate flow through you. Whoops wrong fandom.
Considering Curze and Corax always had a rivalry that played upon their similarities it does make sense. It's said their exile began while Rangu "the Emperor" still walked among man and that the exile will only end when the Forgotten One returns.
The members of the Carcharodons Astra might actually be related to those of the Night Lords simply by way of recruitment. The ultimate goal of both chapters was the same on Zartak as they both sought to recruit the strongest survivors of the prison planet into their ranks. Both the traitor and Exiled loyalist legions recruit new initiates in the same manner. The Chimeric idea though is just as valid.
Personally, as unlikely as it is I still desperately want Tyberos to be some secret Primarch (Not sure how he'd hide it so well being the giant that he is). That or one of the still/maintained missing Primarchs could be the gene father for the chapter and others like it. While One was simply lost, the other missing Primarch was cast out (believed dead by his brothers), erased from history, and supposedly had their legion absorbed by the Ultramarines. That last bit would allow for some explanation of that whole 3rd successor nonsense where one could claim in lore that it was partially correct, but for the most part incorrectly recorded and solely responsible for a majority of the confusion in the first place after being revisited centuries later as a source, and then disproven the next century or so, leaving all scribes and remembrancers in question as to what the exact nature of the exiled and rarely witnessed Carcharodons actually is. We've seen this play out in actual history even within two centuries when original sources for historical events where incorrectly reported upon by scholars (or they decided to add on a little flair for some extra credit and notoriety), the inconsistency became the assumed reality by academia and rather than be challenged itself, would lead to the actual events themselves being challenged, the narrative changed and the original sources dismissed, only for recent archaeological finds (possibly of the very same used in the original records) to verify the actuality of the events and just give everyone a headache trying to separate myth from fact. Honestly if you do that and then continue along the lines of still being Chimeric in nature it would like the most tantalizing tease as to the nature of one of the lost Primarchs while allowing all bases to be covered and for G.W. to retcon it to actually fit more towards any one specific route they want to...though it would get old very quickly if they repeat the practice just to keep the Carcharodons as popular as other chapters.
Man, i always look for a reason to get out of the house whenever my girlfriend starts her Red Tithe.
yummy
Cushions don't bleed!!!
That's false, no 40k fan has a girlfriend
@@ParkerDai Wrong. I actually have two. The Palmel Twins.
This comment aches pain to my core......
For personal fluff i like to think of them as being from one of the lost legions as in one of the horus books it states that just because there primarchs were disposed of the legions themselves weren't at fault and being to great a commodity to just be purged so they were separated into other legions or chapters of there own.
They were absorbed by the smurfs and in lesser quantities by the fist. Malcador told it Dorn, but he got the memory of him agreeing erased.
Thank you for this comprehensive coverage of one of my favorite chapters. Very enjoyable, and good to know I haven't missed any possible sources looking for their legion of origin.
Been waiting for this one. They are one of my favorite chapters
Forge World confirmed the Carcharodons as Raven Guard successors on Facebook back in October 6th 2017. It was in the middle of a conversation inquiring about strategems (either a post or a reply, I don't remember which but I am positive about the date.) People were upset thinking that FW crossed a line that should have been the Black Library Author"s territory.
My take is that they are either a night lord-Raven guard hybrid or orginally loyalist night lords that, because of their close relation to the ashen claws, have come to adopt raven guard terminology
So long as they serve the Imperium of Man by slaying Traitors, Xenos and Daemons, I care not of their origins.
However, until they fulfill their Duty in Death, they must be treated with suspicion..
A blood raven with a Alpha leagion like insignia...... that's more suspicious than the Shark Boys.
@@commanderfarsight2351 I bear the sigil of Brynden Rivers, natural-born son of King Aegon Targaryen, Fourth of His Name.
How many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have? A thousand eyes... and one.
@@travishighbaugh5245 Direwolves don't kill their allies, unlike Maelys the Monstrous.
These bastards are why the traitor Huron yet lives. They have much to answer and atone.
Lost sons of the nightlords forever lurking the dark void between the stars forever hunting for a forgotten pentatense
I think that's only half of that... Many of these are likely hybrids.
Now I totally want Stephanie to be a guest on Tactica Imperialis
Could they be chimerae? I.e. having gene-seed from two different primarchs. Hypothesis: geneseed from raven guard, hence mutations and eyes, and night lords, the viciousness and fear tactics.
Charcharadons= 400% mad
Armored mecha Nope. That’s Angry Marines.
@@crypto1223 Always pissed off for some reason.
@@crypto1223 no the angry marines are just mad. No percent needed. They are the essence of mad. They are the angry marines
@@Dudenob123 fueling khorne by the dozen,most of khornes protein shakes come from them
Inquisitor: “how angry are you?”
Angry marine: “yes” *rips out the inquisitors spine from his body and uses it as a bracelet*
I always thought that the Carcharodons were Night Lords and the Ashen Claws are Raven Guard. So to hide their traitor origins the Carcharodons just act a lot like the Ashen Claws in order to confuse the record.
I'm reading outer dark right now! Was heavily leaning towards Sevatar. Would be very cool
Definitely Night Lord loyalists. Their similar genetic structure and even tactics described by one of, if not the, most experienced Night Lord is too much to over look. The Ashen Claw hypothesis is good, but I think them just being friendly to an extent is just that.
About as Traitor Space Marine as you can get without actually being Traitors.
...yet.
Compared to Marines Malevolent they are cuddly bears
Diabetic_T-Rex so are flesh tearers what’s ya point?
@Diabetic_T-Rex nonsense they are as taciturn as they get, they simply disregard casualties as serving in the Void Father's name
@Diabetic_T-Rex All things considered, Khorne probably likes them enough that they're a Khorne warband, but just don't know it.
Still more loyal than the actual Dark Angels
I think their black shields from the heresy, grouped together astartes from a group of different legions who left for differing reasons and grouped together, this would explain the combined styles of raven guard, world eaters and night lords. Also explains their ancient armour
Before I watch. Night Lords
1:36 Thats Bail Sharr, Reaper Prime and company master of the 3rd.
That breastplate with the lightning bolts, is from the Unification Wars. Its ace to see how much old tech this chapter keeps.
Arkhas Fal, funny how Arkhas, is an anagram of “a shark” 🤫
Raven guard talons whose mutations ( ty, Alpha legion) were relatively stable, perhaps?
would be interesting if it turned out they were successors to one of the lost primarchs: they are old, have old tech and their "Forgotten One" sounds like the "forgotten" of the two lost primarchs. Just a thought
Pretty sure they leave those chapters open for people to make up their own. Doubt they would anchor either down.
Either they are Nightlord decended from The NightLords, or they are Ashen Claws with heavy Nightlord influence.
From the info in this video;
1. Start with Ashen Claws
2. Introduce Sevatar to lead them, directly or as an Elder visionary or advisor.
3. He adds in some Night Lords he renames the Carcharadons with support from some former Ashen Claws or their gene seed stock.
4. The now mixed chapter could have experimented with the seed to mix or even added World Eaters. Either loyalists, or just stolen stock.
5. The World Eater stock could have also been combined with the two, individually to create three types or all three together for one new strand.
6. Or there is no World Eater stock and they are still using more stable Night Lord seed and unstable shark skin Raven Guard seed.
The last part makes the most sense, but a Chimera would provide some answers since Night Lord genes are stable on their own.
But mixed with unstable Raven Guard seed that tries to use Night Lord seed to stabilize it, could produce a stabilizing mutation.
And if the Ashen Claws left before the Heresy, then any new Raven Guard seed would be seen as both pure and tainted.
So that comment is not necessarily a hint of traitor stock on it's own. But could be cool if referring to modified Raven Guard stock.
Alternately they could be Raven Guard who have forgotten Corax much more than the Ashen Claws have. Therefore that line makes more sense.
They could have just taken stock from Night Lords and even World Eaters to stabilize themselves in that case and become tainted in Ashen Claws' eyes.
So there may not be any Sevatar connection but just references to Corax and his abandoning them and therefore the third generation chapter 'forgetting' him.
This would explain them knowing their origins but refusing to claim a heritage of Raven Guard, but instead, Ultramarines.
Maybe they're descended from the 2nd or 11th legions.
Could be. "The Forgotten One" is an appropriate name for either of the Lost Primarchs.
i do believe they are the lost legions, mostly cause the emperor himself banish them, and they wear lighting bolts upon their armor
Seems like it
As a simple man, I see Carcharodons, and i click LIKE.
I personally put my money on night lords. I just love idea of terror troops that stayed loyal to imperium.
I believe there's another possibility. The lost legions were "too valuable of an asset to be disposed out of hand". They committed some unknown sin against the emperor. Perhaps their punishment was to be sent to the far regions to fight off xenos while their bretheren legions stayed and fought in the center of the galaxy
I still think they one of the lost legions, since they don't really fit either of the raven guard nor night lords, since you forget that it is mention the emperor banished them into the outer dark, and they also wear the lighting bolts of Terra
The lost legions were absorbed by the Smurfs. It was part of the reason for their ridicilous numbers.
@@Ryliath it was implied that that happen, but I dont think girlyman absorbed both legions, maybe one but not both
@@XenoGundian Dorn also absorbed an unspecified quantity of astertes from one or both of those Legions according to Malcador.
@@Ryliath "unspecified"
So a goos chance a good bit of them got banished
Or maybe they were a himera between one of lost legions and Raven Guard and Night Lords ?
Absolutely love their battle cry of "Sharkbait, HooHaaHaa!"
From what we saw, my theory is that the Carcharodons were part of the Terran Raven Guard who got exiled from the imperium and became the Ashen Claws, who ended up splintering from the Ashen Claws and continued to serve the imperium. They must have collected Night Lords geneseed from the system that the Night Lords had in control after the Heresy then afterwards combined them to receive a chrimera geneseed
When the imperium is all but gone I'm convinced the Carcharodons would still patrol the dark as a vengeful spirit of humanity. Dudes are too cool.
One problem, heretic. The Imperium shall last forever! Ava Imperator, Heretic!
At the rate your going the imperium probably won’t last the millennium given everything coming to destroy it.
@@coriusfarinprimarchofthese7007 or until the heat death of the universe takes us all
I like to think of them as the banished raven guard , but them as a successor of the night lords is also tempting. Also the demon Bar ghul has a cool and very Tzeench demon like voice.
To unleash my inner nerd... Fun fact shark eyes particularly those of the great white are not black. Their irises are blue, chacaradon eyes anyway. Dilated heavily and difficult to see under most conditions.
BABY SHARK DOOT DOOT DOOT DOOT DOOT DOOT...
These guys are just cool, I simply love the mystery of them, Remember the days the Dark Angels were interesting and mysterious now they are just douche bags.
They still cool bro don't insult our cousin chapter!
...who trounced the NL.
@@kelman727 Ultramarines lol
HOPE THEY MAKE A NOVEL OF THE SPACE SHARKS WANDERING THE SCARY DARK EDGES OF THE GALAXY. THEN SEEING A ABANDONED ROUGE TRADER SHIP WITH A SCARED LONE SURVIVOR.
There are 2 novels of the Carcaradons
The Red Tithe and The Outer Dark
@@eversobritish1335 Three now, with the addition of Silent Hunters. Also a few short stories.
The Red Tide has come.
Every month
Garrett McMurry Sisters of Battle = [Enraged faces intensify]
Garrett McMurry have mercy please
I don’t know why I didn’t think this would happen😑
@@scottmurphy4946 Your Japanese love pillow can't bleed!
With absolutely no research or evidence, I say they're actually a successor chapter of Space Wolves but their Geneseed mutated in a Seal (sea puppy). Since no one is afraid of seals they changed it to Carcharodons.
_Since no one is afraid of seals_
Elephant seals. 'Nuff said ;)
@@40KTheories good point
Are we all just going to ignore how absolutely BOSS Tyberos looks with Hunger and Slake?
I forgot how incredibly interesting the space sharks were. Fuck yeah Lord Inquisitor, great job as always
Yeah....they’re loyalists Night Lords
im not sure why but i got a funny feeling that these have something to do with one of the lost primarchs/their legions
no lore to back it up tho, just a superstition
*Random Unrelated Thought*
I used to agree with Cawl that using the traitor Geneseed was a good idea, the Emperor's original design was sound and allowed for CONSIDERABLE adaptation to fill every niche imaginable (kind of ironic of Cawl considering he modified the Emperor's design of Space Marine, I say modified instead of enhanced because the Primaris Blood Angels aren't really Blood Angels without their curses) but what if every Primarch is somehow psychically linked to his legion and their successor chapters? Sanguinious would seem to illustrate this but was he unique or not? Utilizing traitor Geneseed to create new chapters might just be creating new traitors... Unless that's why the Primaris Marines don't have the Blood Angels curses? They're psychically seperatted from their progenitor Primarchs? Which would mean Cawl could use traitor Geneseed to create new Primaris chapters without that risk.. if the cursed founding was Cawl tinkering away, maybe that's where he learned of this connection and decided to exclude it?
But.. on one hand you can utilize all Geneseed but on the other you lose a bit of what makes Space Marine chapters unique, less adaptable..
Then again, when the Emperor designed his original Space Marines, I doubt he thought his Sons could ever turn traitor.. and with their legions psychically linked to the Primarchs, they'd make for the perfect generals.. So maybe Cawl was right to sever that connection...
Primaris will have the chapter mutations in some way still. Either mentally or physically. Blood Angels especially. It may take a while for the models to be made though so that's why it seems like they're pure for now. They can always taint them later once they have the models and rules set up.
@@boutinpowered8373 Do you think the Primaris will ever turn traitor? I mean, they'd have to at some point to balance the game, right?
@Diabetic_T-Rex which is some of the laziest, most boring fluff to ever be written. even primarchs could betray the emperor.
the earliest i've been for one of these.
It should be noted that the War Hounds and later World Eaters were taken from most savage tribes on Terra. Also based on how Angron was before the Nails, its suggested Word Eaters are not anymore aggressive as any other Astartes legion. Which is why Angron wanted them implanted with the Nails (which also suggests the technology of Nails was not recovered from Nuceria for some unknow reason including its fate after the EoM found it and Angron) as he found woefully under aggressive.
The end of the video makes me wonder what your theories on Sevetar's Red Gauntlets/Failure are? I believe that it's simply he is too thoughtful, and perhaps that he saved Kurze from some Nostroman threat/himself back during the gang wars/rise of the Night Haunter.
In my head, they listen to a super grimdark version of Baby Shark as their drop pods decend upon the battlefield.
Just finished the book, Red Tithe! Good book but left too many questions, so thank you for this video!
Carcharodons first Chaptermaster: Jago Sevatarion #rememberwhereyouhearditfirst😁
If that happens I'll explode into warpfire..fuck
The Mantis Warriors have left the chat
The marks on their armour give off Polynesian vibes
I like the idea they are descendants of Nightlords but the idea they could be descendants of a lost primarch legion is a interesting theory
Tyberos is the night haunter having genetically engineered himself with raptor project genes in a attempt to gain corvus’ invisibility. This altered his gene seed.
Didn't he die?
BRO Wtf You missed THE most important possibility, theyre tithe codes to enter imperial space are referred to as "early" great crusade, 2 legions arent talked about anymore... And the leader of one of them was referred to in several short stories as a silent and stoic warrior, the shoe fits, they're like hawaiian space wolves.
I thought I was the only one thinking Lost Primarch.
Descendants of the lost Primarch maybe? Games Workshop have some plans for them in near future,who knows!
To enter the fray. I think they're night lords but with proof albeit little. In Angels of Caliban we get a picture of the Night Haunter. His fearutres are identical to the master librarian of the Carcaridons. Pale skin. And black shades around the eyes and mouth followed by sharp fangs. Also they use shock and terror like the night lords and when they leave the enemy still is shaken by what just happened. Also. The 8th and 11th legion were created for terror, but after Corax was reunited with his legion he changed them for not wishing to be a tyrant. It is possible that the two chapters co-exist because they need each other to survive. The Ashed claws may know the truth of the Carcaridons, but still with to be with them because of the need of resources and material. The hatred towards the Carcaridons shows that the Ashen claws don't view them as brother, but as traitorous cousins.
Case closed.
Chimeric. Primarily Ashen Claws Chapter (Raven Guard), joined by Loyalist elements of the Night Lords. Probably further added to by Loyalists from other traitor legions. There is mention of at least one of their ships using/possessing Ursus Claws so add a shipload of World Eaters into the mix.
The Nomad Predation Fleet probably makes use of all materials useful to them as they don't have the luxury of being picky. Repair, reuse, repurpose for the Long War in the Outer Dark.
Red Tithe is one of my all time favorite books
They are mostly likely The descendent from the original Terran born raven guard.
They where known for their brutality and cold(emotionless) callous demeanor. The red tithe is most likely a modern form of the 19th legions old slaving practices which was the primary reason Corvus Corax exiled them to the void.
Ironically by banishing them Corax unintentionally saved the carcaradons from future damnation. For many years the 19th was attached the the 16th Luna wolves commanded personably by Horus Lupercal as an extension of his legion. By the time Corax took command the warrior lodges of the word bearers had made their way through the legion it’s members primarily Terran born. By exiling the terrains Corax spared his legion a internal rebellion (as happens with the White scars) and by wandering the void isolated from the civilized galaxy the exiled raven guard marines stayed loyal to the emperor rather than joining Horus.
Disconnected from the word bearers or other traitor legions the warrior lodges of the Terran 19th would have fizzed out or perhaps their sinister intentions was discovered and purged.
However the fate of all sons of Corax eventually occurs their gene seed starts to degenerate this is where the hybrid theory comes into place.
A lot of people myself included believe the current Carcaradons gene seed is a hybrid between raven guard and night lords. Which would make sense as they would be the only gene seed comparable with each other even before the heresy both legions share similar physical / genetic traits. Night lord gene seed is surprisingly pure and uncorrupted by the warp and most genetic mutations providing a somewhat stable genetic base.
Question is where did they acquire it not a lot of traitor warbands tend to wander the void the night lords especially like raiding/terrorizing imperial planets the void is to far from any civilized planet. They could have acquired it from the ashen claws claws a renegade chapter of space marines neither chaos or loyalists.
what about one of the missing primarchs? They serve the forgotten one. Both of the two primarch were, for intents and purpose, forced to be forgotten by imperium of man
Imagine a Dawn of War mod with this faction. For every city/Planet you capture you get a few extra scouts/Space marine squad honor guards due to the Red Tithe and a shock bonus of at least +30% and a +45% or +25% melee damage within a radius of ten meters.
And a feature to only have melee weapons as a vanilla load out until upgraded to ranged options.
However for balance purposes, it must have a feature that the Deathkorps had, lowers the morale of nearby allies whenever near.
Imagine the power!
One of my favourite chapters.
Inquisitor: "Shock and awe assaults, brutal close combat tactics, pale skin, black eyes, you pull your recruits from prisoners, utilize 8th legion geneseed and you are on a penance crusade after being banished from the Imperium. Are you sure you're-"
Tyberos: "Ravenguard, yah. Corax is best gene father. "
My problem with Sevatar theory is that no none from the loyalist would allow redemption or any other punishemnt than dead or life in the hole for traitor legionarie, least of all Dark Angels. Sevatar was active in the Istvaan V masacre and other atrocities that Imperium could never forgive. And if he escaped found some night lords make them into new chapter why would any one seen them as anything other than renegaded warband. From what i read about Carcharodons there was some sort of authority that send them into exile, and they have deep veneration for Void Father ( the emperor). To me they seem like they were created by someone. Maybe Corax started to use other genseed to help his Legione after raptor project failed?
5:18 raptor night lord in the back for sure
My theory is that the Carcharodons are technically descended from the Raven Guard, specifically they are the descendants of the survivors of the Raptor Project. Despite becoming heavily mutated due to the contamination of their modified gene-seed they remained loyal to the Emperor and their primarch, Corvus Corax. Due to their loyalty and the need for warriors during the Heresy, Corax gave them armour modified for their mutated forms and organized into an organization which was used to strike from the shadows and won many covert battles against the Traitors. Many of them survived the battles of the Horus Hersey and then they vanish from Imperial history. I believe they were organized into a chapter and given a name as far from bird imagery as possible (a fish), given ships and old/obsolete armour and sent out into the darkness to destroy aliens. They were not intended to survive, but they did, and they prospered. As they created new initiates from their serf crews and any viable humans they found out in the black, their mutations began to stabilize into their current gene-seed flaws. They either keep the secret of their true history, or possibly they have forgotten their shame.
Night lord, world eater hybrids. That would be terrifying.
I think according to all the evidence, that the most Likely Fact and origins of the Cacharedons is that they are both Night Lord and Raven Guard, via chimeric Geneseed plus their origins are likely from the exiled raven guard from coraxxs reformation of the Legion plus Say Jago Sevitar and other possibly loyalist night lords being added to their exile and early leadership . Meaning it's possible Jago Sevitar was their earliest chapter master while Coraxx still could be their Forgotten One.
Viciously bloody, love it..that’s the only way to beat chaos!..
I think it would be cool if they were loyalist night lords. It would give them alot more character with being the first so to say chapter to be decended from a traitor legion
cc2099 Blood Ravens: Am I a joke to you?
@@kingerc1 Yes
#WhyNotBoth
Loyalist Night Lords, led by Renegade Raven Guard, eventually gene-spliced chimeras
Well, now we know what happened to Artemis Fowl's dad - he went off into space and became the Shade Lord for the Space Sharks.