Propellers - Stainless, Aluminum, Composite - Diameter and Pitch - Piranha Prop - Bollard Pull Test
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ส.ค. 2022
- SV Seeker is 65 tons and can move at 8 knots ( 9 mph ) but how much can she pull? What kind of power will she have for towing equipment, or running into rough seas? If you tied her to a tree with a scale to measure the pulling force, how much do you think it would be? Make your guess now, because we are going to find out.
Piranha Propellers piranha.com/
[ Sea Chest Foundation Store ]
www.seachestfoundation.org/shop/
[ 42Fab Store has SV Seeker Memorabilia made from scrap from Seeker]
www.42fab.com/weld-it-yoursel...
[ Amazon Smile support for The Sea Chest Foundation ]
smile.amazon.com/ch/83-2588177
[ Support Seeker ]
Patrons and Other Support: wp.me/P6ivyU-1wT
Buy Anything on Amazon and support Seeker when you use this link: amzn.to/2PeHRfq
Seeker Junk Store on Amazon www.amazon.com/shop/svseeker
[ More ]
Volunteer goo.gl/Lo1p6y
About Us: www.svseeker.com/wp/sv-seeker-...
FaceBook Page: / sailingvesselseeker
FaceBook Group / svseeker
Blog: www.svseeker.com/wp/blog/
[ Music ]
"Trickin Pickin" preformed by Doug Waterman
Watching this a second time, it hit me that with the Piranha prop you could have a single hub and then have sets of blades to give you different diameters and pitches depending on what you needed to do with the boat. The mayflies looked like Seeker had grown a beard. Take care and have a good week Doug and Seeker crew.
I get what you were telling me now, about the difference between power and speed...great stuff!
In my opinion, you glossed over the fact that the spline is pressed into a rubber hub. If you hit something, it acts as a drive saver, similar to the drive pin shearing as you mentioned. The benefit of the pressed in hub, I believe, is that you have power available still since you can still idle home in an emergency limp mode at about a high idle without having to change out any pins. Pros and cons I guess
You're right I did. And that's what they are suppose to do. I'd still rather have a pin. : )
I guess that you are right. Another mission for the hub is to act alittle lika a clutc and lower the stress on the drive.
Great video tho! 👍
@@dinghyride
Yes, I agree 100%!
I just replaced a Lexor Solas stainless prop. The hub is not pressed in, it is a Rubex kit and can be swapped on the fly. So after hitting an object, and spinning the hub, stopping to allow you from planning out, you can pull the prop and and insert a new Rubex hub. So the pros are drive saving, has emergency limp home mode, and is replaceable. The con is obviously cost. :)
Love how you threw Ship Happens boat painting in your montage at the end. They respect and love your channel. I found them from watching you!
Love what they are doing.
@@SVSeeker love you to Doug! 😘
Cool prop, definitely gonna order one for my flats boat. Also wanted to mention that it’s obvious you’re doing what you were meant to do by that smile. You’re achievement of building Seeker and learning to sail has brought a new excitement to your personality. Keep on living the dream Doug it’s definitely contagious!
Doug thank you for explaining your prop setup. I have been trying to understand this for a year and a half talking to three different marine mechanics. Your presentation today helped me to finally understand what everyone was trying to explain to me. I will also look into the piranha prop system. Ric
Great to hear! Sometimes it help to hear it from someone else that is new to it.
I remember when you poured those propellers. Vision for the future worked out, good job. Thanks for taking us along.
So well explained with the jello. Thanks!
Doug you are rocking the same hair style as Simon! Looking good man!
Always informative. Always entertaining. Thanks Doug
This was absolutely informative and done well man! Great explanation on props and their mechanics!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great explanation on props Doug. Thank you.
Thanks for all the education lesson on propellers, you did a good job explaining it all Doug..Man that one hella'vea lot of mayflies.
thanks so much Doug for this instructive vlog.. very well explained and more.. fair winds always
Great job!
That innerspring brass bushing is inset to the hub in rubber. Theory is the rubber will slip when enough force to stop rotation. Doesn't always work but I've had a few slip.
There’s also propellers like I use that have a rubber core that prevents any damage to the shaft. If the propeller hits something the rubber core spins inside the hub. Even allows for you to limp back home even with a hard impact
Yes, that's what they are suppose to do.
I've used Piranha Props.. Yup, easy to replace, and yup, it saved my lower unit !! and Great Performance !!
Interesting. Good work. Plenty of room for experimentation and learning.
best explanation of props, pitch and jello... happy days, off to Piranah, hope they to Australia or have resellers downunder. !
Don’t forget that composite blades flex as well under speed just like aluminum props do.
good content / great plastic prop for boat rentals- rocky areas- aluminum props have a good balance of cost / no flex /still have a hub which will spin if damaged or bent/ not as easy to damage which wiil get u home. w/out spare prop. the float wrench is the best part.
The props these days have a rubber sleeve between the spline and the prop. This replaced the sheer pin. When I have “Sheered the rubber on mine i drive a self tapper screw threw the prop and its good to go!
Yep I remember my dad using brass pins on his unit,asked why do you remove the factory pin,to install a brass pin.He would say You wouldnt understand if I told you,so he never told me,now I know why.🙊🙊🙊
I used to run out Salt River (In Crystal River Fl) which had oyster beds about 18" under the surface. I never had any issues but those that foolishly tried to follow me in their large center consoles sure could have used them!!! When I was on plane in my 14' aluminum flat bottom with a 1958 18hp Evinrude, I didn't draw but 12(ish)" of water, they drew 20" minimum!!! Saw more than 1 ignore my warnings and destroyed $$$'s worth of props... Smooth sailing Seeker :-)
worlds sneakiest AD
I've heard making math mistakes is a good way to entice comments, guess it worked. Seeker's looking real good! Looking forward to seeing her moving under sail.
Might have to try and do that on purpose in the future. : )
Excellent vid! I had a Lexan prop decades ago which was awesome, but hit a rock and lost a blade. Boy would it have been nice to just replace the blade.
From the look of it you have a pusher prop (by size and spec) in a Sailing ship (with a pusher sail). This is from ROMAN times (I can safely say it's the only culture that I passionably love), Or From the Chinese invasion of Japan! Times! Have changed and we need better Fluid Dynamics because of efficiency!
Best alloy for propeller would be:
Cu/Al/Ni/Fe/Mn
Percentage:
Balance/8.5%/5%/4%/2.5%
If you need help to cast a propeller blade I can help, I don’t have way to melt but we could do it at any foundry around you
This looks to be glass fiber reinforced nylon for the material. What is the material used?
Question please! propeller changed from 7.8 diameter to 7.7, will there be a lot of difference in top speed on my 11ft inflatable boat. Dealer only has 7.7 propellers for my 6hp
It does not seem like much of a change, but that is a much better question for the folks at piranha.com/
What about long term exposure to weather. Will the plastic blades become brittle and break easy after 6 months to a year.
We'll see, but back and composite is a pretty good from where I've seen it used on cars and motorcycles.
consider ripping a sheet or two of plywood down into strips and stuff them down inside the boat somewhere that way you have something to close up a blown out window in a storm
Yeah but plexiglass.
I like to think it's torque that gets you away from the traffic lights, power enables you to stay at a steady speed.
How many knots do you think you'll be able to get out of the sails?
2, let’s play it safe :)
To be fair that engine probably isn't 200hp at 1.5k even when new. It probably needs more revs to make it's full power
I have ended up with a bunch of spare time, I'd love to come down and check her out, maybe even stick around and help out with whatever i can help with for a bit
www.svseeker.com/wp/sv-seeker-2/about-us/welcome-aboard/
every time i see a mayfly hatch like that, the fly-fisherman in me gets very excited.
I like a man who knows about Jello.
Happy as a puppy with 2 peters,, if that's not happy I don't know what is :)
once you get mechanical all set I would say use Full synthetic Amsoil products at next oil changes/ lubes . run cooler- less wear. change less often.
Hi Doug,
Adjusting the trim on the engine can get the same outcome. It can push the boat up onto the plane for speed and better economy.
It's all a maximising worked perform for the least effort :)
Doing the pull test at the different trim settings would be a good video, you could do 3rd party testing and put all those myths to bed ;)
Regards
So, you could have replacement power blades on hand, if needed?
Yeah they are in the boat.
No thanks, plastic is for Dixie cups.
Stainless may be expensive, and I have hit a few rocks, but I've never damaged a lower unit, nor have I damaged a prop so bad it couldn't be repaired. One prop does not cover all boating all the time. I've had the same three props for the same boat for 12 years.
I would be glad to help you put more power on that Cummins 😜
As always enjoy your videos just some food for thought the Cummins could be down in horsepower with that amount of pull and say she might be missing 25 horsepower so maybe a little more but that's normal
Some sail boats have auxiliary engines.
Some sail boats have auxiliary sails.
It’s up to you to decide.
the wrench floats but do the prop blades?
You have to be careful with what you drop in the water. :-)
They went to a clutch, umpteen million years ago. Usually the skag gets beat up.
I'm amazed how very little torque-horse power-energy or whichever terminology you want to use, it takes to move Seeker. I remember those first few days when starting down the River and that hunderstat crap broke everytime you touched the levers. You were pulling Seeker off the sandbars and helping dock with a little more than a plastic row boat with an outboard on it?! That small outboard motor-sized propellor had enough power to move huge Seeker! That's why I wanna call BS on even having a perceived need to have your big ol home made props back there wiggling around just waiting for deep enough water to break off at the base? You cannot fail Doug. Make your systems and sub systems as durable and dependable as you can possibly foresee. People's lives are depending on Seeker keeping them alive.
How about the brittleness of plastic in cold winter water?
We'll Chis is form Minnesota. Not sure how cold you want but I'm not swimming up there.
So this is your base-line for sorting out the (aux) propulsion system? So if accurate, that's roughly bus engine is putting out equivalent to ~ 120HP or so? That's more than I thought considering .
Yeah that’s one of the things I’m not sure of.
@@SVSeeker So what pitch prop (fixed?) will you test against?
How do you share pic's of our project
Email them to me at svseeker@ymail.com Thanks!
doug you have 40% more engine rpm you can use. you need more gear reduction i suspect. yes peak tq is 1600rpm but peak hp is at 2400, that's a lit of room for improvement, and you could muster a potential bullard increase to 4000lbs more than likely with a 2800rpm limit.
seems like you have sufficient pitch but insufficient torque for said pitch potential.
what gear are you testing in with the allison ???
1st gear, 3.51:1 reduction. I designed for 4:1 but I don't have to change the transmission, I should only need to trim the blade diameter down.
Regardless! The fact that you cast your own blades and dredged up an old Hundested from the depths. Whether your measurements were done in Imperial or metric it's impressive. To be honest when you were casting the blades I had my doubts. I think you can be confident that you have plenty of thrust on Seeker any improvements in the future will be gravy on top. Great stuff thanks
I have an unexplainable urge to blow those mayflies with compressed air. Oh what a glorious cloud of bugs that would create.
if you hit the bottom with any kind of speed you will shear the entire lower unit right off no matter the prop you have on it. seen it dozens of times in the shallow gulf around pasco county
I don’t think they’ve invented a prop that can stop me from doing that.
@@SVSeeker just look at the outboard really look at it and think of the direction its going that fin will hit bottom before the props will even shear off
you have most of the prop info right except about stainless. it is so heavy it is like a flywheel and allows you to run at lower rpm at the same speed vs alum prop.
if you really wanted more power just go to the wastegate line and close it off with a set of vise grips for all the boost itll make. then go to the injection pump and turn that thing up. youll have 325-350hp easy.
yeah and you'll blow out the head gaskets
Good to know Doug, and particularly with the Tamale since it's not diesel fueled, and will be your workhorse when you're actually out operating as planned. A note with your test, the dynamics should be a little bit better when both boat and prop/shroud are moving thru water vs at a standstill like when you tested. More testing in open water with minimal chop or current will let you dial in a chart of performance for future use. Does Piranha currently offer a prop for Seeker, or if you sent them a spare blade to make a mold from, will they produce some ? Guessing that may require a metal hub for interface with your Hundersted Drive or is the plastic fiber reinforced ? Liked the jello analogy too !
Seems like it would not be adjustable at that point any more. Which would kill 1 or 2 advantages of what they have now.
@@advancednutritioninc908 I'm asking if they can reproduce Doug's current blade to fit his Hundersted hub. This would maintain pitch changing capability. More importantly, he would have cheaper spares..
@@mkllove ok - great idea
will they ever make props for 9.9HP and lower engines ?
i have a Yamaha 4AC (2006) and well the corner of one blade is broken off so i need a new prop but i dont want to spend a lot of money
Yes the power is better than the speed. 10-4
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Do you have a way to measure diesel fuel flow? If you could log that in real time, it would help figure out efficient RPMs and pitch.
I don't but that is a good idea.
Seems to me someday 3D printing these wouldn't be out of the question.
They just need to make the blades float so that if you break one, you can collect it and dispose of it appropriately
Wait just a minute...did you just say that me sitting on my couch watching your videos is a waste of time???
Yup. Most of the time it is.
I have to ask about practicality of having a “custom” propeller system. How are you going to handle a replacement or repair when you are far from home. You won’t have the opportunity to get a standard/stock from major retailer or distributor. Repairs will be more challenging as the repair shop won’t have the appropriate scanning and repair data.
Pre-cisely.
I make those blades and have a second set and the ability to make more. I have to ask about the practicality of not having the ability to fabricate the things you need which necessitate relying on manufacturers and other people to do that for you.
@@SVSeeker My comments related to not just the blades but your entire variable pitch system. As longtime boat owner, captain, engineering leader that has unlimited access to a large-scale CNC and manual machine shop, I still wouldn't do it myself. There are just some cases IMHO, that "off the shelf" components and systems designed and produced by experts are preferred. If you have unlimited time and not in risky locals, maybe your strategy will work, but just not how I roll. Oh, I do have custom built uber rare 69 year old yacht with skills to repair/build basically anything on it, but sometimes it's not the way to go. Good luck.
I thought we were going to get to see a puppy with two peckers.
Never lost a blade on a prop and didn't bend the shaft. Don't know if the plastic is weak enough to save the shaft.
We'll Brad, the guy that designed them told me he broke over 1500 of them and never destroyed the outboard. I think that given they are made from composite they are going to break easier that even aluminum.
Ton and a quarter, not half. Sorry, someone had to say it. Just eat a pigeon for that one. Lol
what about marshmallow jello though?
You're bollard pull might not be where you'd like it to be you'd have to use Seekers mass to yard something off the beach or get something in tow moving you're not going to have the snort to get a tow moving. You....... could get a little more power out of the 5.9 I don't know how much cooling capacity. I'd think you could get 300-350hp for short bursts of power when you're bucking tide or you need the snort.
Could you not go to 1800-1900 rpm safely!! I looked up a STOCK 1997 cummins 12 valve power curve and both the hp and torque peaks about 1900 rpm. It seems like you would have had at least 3000 pounds there! Have you changed your curve? The Piranha prop is quite amazing - 1500 props broken and not a single bottom end!! Wow!!
That would be 1 and 1/4 tons there Doug not 1 and 1/2 tons , one US ton is 2000 pounds.
.
boat should sell before gone
It could be that you did not polish the blades that robbed your power.
Yeah .001 %
MASSIVE DRAG LOSS!
Obviously I don't know all the exact details of your prop setup, but you should not assume that it is .0001%, because you and I know it's not! DO this!!!!!! Take a stick and while traveling on a boat, stick it in water at various depth, and you tell me how much strength you will need to hold it vertical in the water as you go deeper. This is also why you have surface drives for speed, and also that you need the proper shaft outboard, lol! Jump on your Red Whaly and have someone tiller it while you use a broom stick to just get a feel. So you don't lose the broom stick, go slow! Figure out the speed of the tip of the prop (that is the linear speed) at full throttle and use that as the maximum speed of the boat! Make sure you have strong hands!
The tip velocity of the blade is 6.4 MPH at 1 RPSecond. i.e. at 270 RPM (cruise ship full speed) the tip's linear speed would be 6.4 x (270/60) = 28.8 MPH. At 500 RPM it would be 53.3 MPH. Even if I am wrong, just see how strong you are at your props top tip speed.
american do realy have problems with metric^^ 1129kg is 1,129t NOT 1 1/2... its not even 1 1/5
1,2t per 100ps is 5290lbs and 1,5t would be 6614lbs total so you are even worse as you said or thought^^
but the question is do this math mean engine power or shaft power? the transmission eats some significant horsepower (you can be happy you got rid of the tourge converter who would even steal more power) all the shaft bearings and seals, also the hydraulic pumpt for the pitch system and the electric system is all generating power while the engine is running. this all eats in your shaft power on the propeller
and is your engine realy have 200ps??
so i think you are good for what you have there.. you might consider tuning up the engine a lot if this is possible
Diesel doesn't make great power numbers but great torque at low engine speeds. Cummins 6B (non-turbo) only makes 150~170 HP, 6BT up to 230 HP. These are at 2500 RPM.
Only running the engine at 1500 I'm not surprised that their effective power is much lower.
Reviewing back videos this appears to be a 6BT. Between the accessories, the transmission, and the larger driveline sealing losses I wouldn't be surprised to see upwards of 30% power loss from the factory rating. Include not hitting the engine's peak power speed and the measured outcome is within ballpark.
With more testing they may find a fair bit more power available. And if that's not enough it shouldn't be too difficult to replace the 6BT with its successor the ISB 5.9L.
There are countries that use the metric system and there are countries that have actually sent men to the moon and back.
@@danielspencer1827 While using the metric system...
@@danielspencer1827 yea and they used the knowlege of metric system using people to get there. (von Braun and its Team) last time someone worked for NASA used non metric (against their contract and Nasa Rules!) it was a spectacular total loss of a probe.
also YOU in person didnt send anything to the moon^^ you probably not even got something together like Dug did with Seeker^^
i also was not adressing only the use of non metric but the case of not even getting 1,5 right to 1,1 thats also not in imperial correct^^
in metric you can just do simply math in imperial you have to know whats what. and NOT knowing whats what is what made the compairison and the bullpark numbers wrong.
and thats what Gug wanted to compare to. i am metric but even i was able to "feel" the pound numbers was off so it was easy to just do the math. pounds are NOT 1:2.54 or 1:2 its 1:2,205 and with larger numbers like a ton who is 1000 kg it adds up quickly doing math wrong. so beeing more carefull with conversion if you work with more digits is clearly given.
and sry to say it but when you start compairing somehing with hard mesaurements and do math with it you beter get it at least somehow right or you may be more off as you thought.
as i wrote.. i suspect the engine not even making 200ps (even Dug did not) and with transmission loos on top and so on it might drop additional 20%
200hp*,8= 160hp *1,2t = 1920kg=4232bs
he only reached 2490lbs whats realy low in compairson close to only 50% in fact.
but how about he took shaftpower for propellers but suspected engine power to get?
and the engine only have 160hp?
160*,8=128hp on the propellershaft
and how about he cant reacht 1,2t/100hp since its propeller construction is homemade and its not optimal?
how about its only 1t/100hp?
well thats 1200kg or 1,2t or 2380 Pounds... e voila almost spot on...
oh an next time you come with that nonsense like you did just take a look into architect mesuring tapes.. they have old imperial food and inch on it but in metric 100. and why? well noone want to 1/8 of an yard off building homes...
pff send humans to the moon using german engneering and engineers using and thinking in metric...
and now a private company is 2trying to go to mars" using also the metric system and are based in russian rocket engines as a starting point for their itterations and "inventions"
so yea be proud of your country where even YT dudes cant do the simple conversion right^^ tz
4 blade cleaver please...?. I like em to jump outta the water...
Does Doug look like he's getting younger? Is Doug Benjamin Button?
He shaved
Outboards are sold by businesses. They want your money. Why build an affordable, easily repairable produce when they can build something that breaks under common use and is an OEM only item. Shear pins are cheap and can be easily "field expedited".
I hate to imagine that was the decision process but it's hard to rationalize why they would stop using pins.
Bullshit modern props have a rubber coupler between the prop an the splines so that you don't destroy your lower engine
Apparently they don’t always perform that way. But yes that’s what they’re supposed to do.