I got two Siemens Q115DF CFCI/AFCI combo-breakers installed in my house, these are the best to say the least. I have tested them with a heater on, the vacuum machine on, and and heat-gun on, no trips, they just work. They are not cheap, but what you pay is what you get.
I am not an electrician, I hate these. As a homeowner, they go bad to easily, myself and 3 neighbors have had to have at least one go bad in new homes less than 2 years old. Costs more than $400 to have one replaced.
let me tell you why electrical fires happen: Poor electrical installation technique, not taking care of extension cords and replacing them when they get old or damaged, placing items in poor proximity to electrical outlets, running wire willy nilly wherever you want, overloading circuits, and not being careful where you're putting nails and cutting into walls. Maintaining, good electrical installation practices, and being careful what you do is key to preventing electrical fires. Now they are requiring arc faults on all living spaces and all circuits within those living spaces, including light circuits. And I hear that in a year or two they are going to require them for all major appliances as well. - this is ridiculous and very much overkill. All you new home builders can expect to pay more than quadruple you used to on electrical for homes now, since arc fault breakers are 4 times as much as a normal breaker.
What you are saying is that the fires are caused by people doing the things that people do. Very few people have the knowledge and mindset of an experienced electrician or fire marshall.
The problem is, nobody is expanding on the use of these safety items, like troubleshooting, I have a breaker box with 4 afci breakers and all mislabeled, one tripped the other 3 amber warning lights appear for 30 sec when shut off then back on and have a lot of questions and a lot of detective work to do, would be nice to see the activity and solutions once something like this occurs
At 4:03 when talking about GFCI, "it assumes the missing current has leaped onto the ground wire and trips the circuit" is missing the most important point of the GFCI. I would say "it assumes the missing current has leaped onto a person or a ground wire and trips the circuit".
Of course they protect you. They nuisance trip so bad that you can't operate anything on the circuit, thus preventing any use of electricity at all on that circuit. Can't get much safer than that.
Sorry, this demo (at around @5:10) seems bogus! Have you heard of the Paschen curve? See e.g. Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law where it says: "For example, in air, at a pressure of one atmosphere, the distance for minimal breakdown voltage is about 7.5 μm. The voltage required to arc this distance is 327 V, which is insufficient to ignite the arcs for gaps that are either wider or narrower." What must have been applied here for the "demonstration" looks like a kilovolt or more! Regular house wiring uses 120V or at most 240V in the US.
The best electricians always use those steel staples to secure the cable ……. Then a big hammer to pound it in…. Hit it harder …… and always blame the AFCI breaker
You compare 15 or 20 amp afci breakers to 200 amp standard breakers. Wouldn't the 75 amp 10,000 degree arc trip a standard 20 amp breaker which is installed under the 200 amp one?
He is saying that the standard arc on a standard breaker (15 or 20) would have to be above 200 amps to trip the breaker because of how brief the arc is. It would not create enough heat to trip the breaker at 75 to 125 amps because they are so brief at times.
some types of eclectic heaters it not good to use arc-fault breakers on they will blow every time. Wiring is not a issues. If you are going to require these breaker they need to be changed so they the will not blow when no problem is on the circuit. The makers of these breakers should inform election and code writers of the short coming of their product and state where gfci should be used instead. I think they stopped some fires but they be the problem in some cases. They know these things and have not fixed the breakers to fix the problem.
Why not just buy a heater that does not give off an arc fault signature? It seems to me that your heater is dangerous if it is tripping the arc fault breaker.
AFC protection makes better sense to me now. I live in an older home, and I've seen these happen. I've seen this on a high current, hand held device like a hair dryer where the wires near the strain relief break down and start burning while hot. Before the actual cord malfunction, there was no indication on the outside of the cord that the wires on the inside had frayed enough to cause that area of the cord to burn up. It would be useful if you could buy power strips with AFC protection. It also sounds like it might help connections fail in outlet boxes especially metal ones arcing the hot to ground.
3 minits 50 second grafic is wrong sir Power is Going though ground to hot like DC and wrong line from Ground to hot & direct current please make animation right its AC current sir Please keep animation right according to speaker exponation please.
One thing he failed to mention is that the National Fire Protection Agency says that these Arc Fault beakers help to reduce the risk of electrical fires as much as 50%.
A great explanation of all the Fault type breakers and a most excellent presentation....Thank you Eaton and the gent giving this for taking the time to do this.
When he does the test and says given these circumstances he should emphasize the exact circumstances in detail again. This helps him sound like a teacher and not a sales representative. Sounds like "please sir forget the exact circumstances and just trust me, this breaker will save your life over standard breakers"lmao cheezy
Can you show more detail as to how these circuits are constructed to recognize arc faults? By the way, with the two different types of arc, is there a time line where some AFCI breakers were installed before the combination devices were commonly available? How do you recognize those older devices?
That's a mighty fancy little tester you got there. I've never been able to recreate an arc fault situation in my shop with everyday items. I think they are more trouble than they are worth. By the way. The GFCI doesn't measure the current leaving against the current returning. It simply has a trip coil across the hot and neutral. If there is any difference of potential across the circuit the trip coil is energized. Ive seen some brands of tvs and ceiling fans trip arc fault breakers. They drive electricians crazy. Somebody is getting rich off these. I'm assuming it's the guys who convinced the NEC to adopt them.
GFCI do measure the difference between the hot and neutral wires currents ( not potentials) flowing in the opposite directions through the ring of the coil of the current transformer. The difference in 5 mA. will interrupt current flow.
Mik Kra - You're exactly right. That's exactly how they work. This is why, when using an ammeter to measure current, you can't place something like an extension cord though the ammeter clamp. The hot an neutral will cancel each other out. You have to separate the hot and neutral, and the place the hot (in some cases, the neutral) alone through the ammeter clap. With a GFCI breaker, the current on the hot and neutral must match or else the breaker will trip. A difference of only 5 milliamps will trip a GFCI.
GFCI devices detect current differences between the hot neutral sides, not differences in potential. It uses a current transformer, and if the hot and load side currents are different by more than 5mA into a comparator a solenoid trips and opens the circuit. The assumption is that any difference is caused by a current leaking through a person to a ground. If you have seen TVs nuisance trip an AFCI, then either the AFCI breaker is an older device or the TV is incompatible with the AFCI. Newer generation AFCIs are much less susceptible to nuisance tripping from electronic devices.
AxZxTxExCxA NO that is not the Point! That scare tactics is exactly what Eaton wants you to think! And the dummies at the NEC bit off on Arc fault BS. Millions of homes were built with out this nanny state over control and they are still standing today. And even homes with post and knob wiring is still in use, because they have not burned down. Are they safe? Well I would not want it! Arc fault is a money grab.
These AFCI breakers are worth every penny. I had an experience that made me a believer. Here's the story: I bought a house that had standard circuit breakers, and I wanted to install AFCI breakers for safety. A few months later, I changed out the breakers for the 3 largest circuits in my house. The 3 breakers cost me about $120 at the hardware store, plus about 30 minutes of my time to install them. No joke, 1 month later, I woke up to no power in my bedroom. I checked the breakers, and I found that one of the AFCIs tripped. I reset the breaker, and then I started looking for what caused it to trip. I found that the cord on one of my lamps was damaged while we were moving, which is what blew the breaker. Nothing turned black or started on fire, but if I didn't install AFCI breakers, my house could have burned down from the damaged cord. So if you are on the fence about installing AFCI breakers, DO IT. A few hundred dollars for the breakers, plus installation if you are not comfortable installing them yourself, is nothing compared to your house burning down, possibly with you in it.
guess ding - Re-watch the video. Pay better attention to the explanation of what is required to trip a "regular" breaker. Most arcing events do not create nearly enough of a current draw to cause a NON-AFCI breaker to trip.
What I don't understand is why the NEC only requires these in bedrooms. I understand that it's where people sleep, but an arc fault can occur anywhere in a home, with the same results. Is it because bedrooms typically don't have devices that would cause false tripping? Is it because of the cost of them? I do see the value in them, though. I used to live in a neighborhood with older homes. One of the homes near mine burnt down. After the investigation, it turned out that their teenage daughter had plugged something into an outlet in her bedroom, it arced a bit but it stopped and she left it plugged in. A few hours later the house was on fire and they lost everything.
They're required everywhere except bathrooms, garages, and porches now. I'm guessing the NEC used to only mandate them in bedrooms because they used to be worse about nuisance tripping and chances are you aren't plugging power tools or wet/dry vacuums into bedroom outlets. Plus if a fire starts in a bedroom you may not wake up soon enough to get out whereas if it starts somewhere else the smoke detectors should alarm in time for you to get out before the fire reaches the bedroom. Just my theory anyway. AFCI's have gotten a lot better since they first came out. I unplugged a running space heater from an AFCI protected circuit once and the little arc in the socket didn't trip it.
Kinda. Sorta. Not really. Current flows in a loop with AC electron flow switching back and forth like a made in Taiwan ping pong ball 60 times per second in North America [50 Hz in Namibia]. Americans enjoy a brief moment of 169.7 volts supplied to their cell phone chargers and toasters followed 8.33 milliseconds later by negative 169.7 volts in a sinusoidal wave with an equivalent DC (the root mean squared (RMS)) voltage of 120V . If you've got harmonics (not to be confused with a harmonica) then according to Fourier you've got nonlinear distortion composed of a butt load of sinusoidal waves imposing themselves on the fundamental wave like a child molester let loose in a Kindergarten. It's a vicious cycle if you're part of the circuit. The black, red, blue, brown, orange or violet, and yellow UNGROUNDED wires are usually considered "Live/Hot" in the U.S.. This is by convention and really any conductive item of any color could be "Hot". For AC, the white Neutral "should" be grounded at your service panel along with the green Equipment Grounding Connector (EGC) wires and screws, which, by the name you can guess is also grounded. Double insulated power saws and drills work fine with no ground. Just as Black Lives Matter, Black Wires Matter too. For DC volts, amps and power, black wires are typically chosen as the common or ground such as in your automobile or truck. If you work on your vehicle's electrical system then on your home's electrical system you could be in for a shock if you confuse black AC with black DC and you don't turn the circuit breaker off or disconnect the battery. Hope this short explanation helped. Be safe.
I got two Siemens Q115DF CFCI/AFCI combo-breakers installed in my house, these are the best to say the least. I have tested them with a heater on, the vacuum machine on, and and heat-gun on, no trips, they just work. They are not cheap, but what you pay is what you get.
I am not an electrician, I hate these. As a homeowner, they go bad to easily, myself and 3 neighbors have had to have at least one go bad in new homes less than 2 years old. Costs more than $400 to have one replaced.
let me tell you why electrical fires happen: Poor electrical installation technique, not taking care of extension cords and replacing them when they get old or damaged, placing items in poor proximity to electrical outlets, running wire willy nilly wherever you want, overloading circuits, and not being careful where you're putting nails and cutting into walls. Maintaining, good electrical installation practices, and being careful what you do is key to preventing electrical fires. Now they are requiring arc faults on all living spaces and all circuits within those living spaces, including light circuits. And I hear that in a year or two they are going to require them for all major appliances as well. - this is ridiculous and very much overkill. All you new home builders can expect to pay more than quadruple you used to on electrical for homes now, since arc fault breakers are 4 times as much as a normal breaker.
What you are saying is that the fires are caused by people doing the things that people do. Very few people have the knowledge and mindset of an experienced electrician or fire marshall.
The problem is, nobody is expanding on the use of these safety items, like troubleshooting, I have a breaker box with 4 afci breakers and all mislabeled, one tripped the other 3 amber warning lights appear for 30 sec when shut off then back on and have a lot of questions and a lot of detective work to do, would be nice to see the activity and solutions once something like this occurs
At 4:03 when talking about GFCI, "it assumes the missing current has leaped onto the ground wire and trips the circuit" is missing the most important point of the GFCI. I would say "it assumes the missing current has leaped onto a person or a ground wire and trips the circuit".
You become the ground wire lol
He forgot the part about walking past receptacle with wool socks is enough to trip those stupid afci breakers.
That’s why I refuse to “””upgrade””” to these
Of course they protect you. They nuisance trip so bad that you can't operate anything on the circuit, thus preventing any use of electricity at all on that circuit. Can't get much safer than that.
Very methodical and informative presentation that covers details with actual demonstrations 👍👍
Very good explanation and demonstration!
Sorry, this demo (at around @5:10) seems bogus! Have you heard of the Paschen curve? See e.g. Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law where it says:
"For example, in air, at a pressure of one atmosphere, the distance for minimal breakdown voltage is about 7.5 μm. The voltage required to arc this distance is 327 V, which is insufficient to ignite the arcs for gaps that are either wider or narrower." What must have been applied here for the "demonstration" looks like a kilovolt or more! Regular house wiring uses 120V or at most 240V in the US.
Do Not Try at Homé.......
Umm-Léss Ewé Aré.......
PHOTONIC - INDUC-TIÓN ¡¡¡¡¡¡
The best electricians always use those steel staples to secure the cable ……. Then a big hammer to pound it in…. Hit it harder …… and always blame the AFCI breaker
Their is Brandé new oné calléd. typé E.L.C.B. Breákér
You compare 15 or 20 amp afci breakers to 200 amp standard breakers. Wouldn't the 75 amp 10,000 degree arc trip a standard 20 amp breaker which is installed under the 200 amp one?
He is saying that the standard arc on a standard breaker (15 or 20) would have to be above 200 amps to trip the breaker because of how brief the arc is. It would not create enough heat to trip the breaker at 75 to 125 amps because they are so brief at times.
What a lil' smug grin at 6:31. It's like he invented the AFCI himself. haha
Haha i know it!
HAHAHAHA. I feel so close to your sense of humour.
Reminds me of of Joseph Goebbels, come to think of it he favours him.
Haha he is smug, the little shit.
Just FYI for Ray, the owner: you can fix the squoosh by adding the "yt:stretch=16:9" in the video details - just do a search in youtube help.
some types of eclectic heaters it not good to use arc-fault breakers on they will blow every time. Wiring is not a issues. If you are going to require these breaker they need to be changed so they the will not blow when no problem is on the circuit. The makers of these breakers should inform election and code writers of the short coming of their product and state where gfci should be used instead. I think they stopped some fires but they be the problem in some cases. They know these things and have not fixed the breakers to fix the problem.
Why not just buy a heater that does not give off an arc fault signature? It seems to me that your heater is dangerous if it is tripping the arc fault breaker.
AFC protection makes better sense to me now. I live in an older home, and I've seen these happen. I've seen this on a high current, hand held device like a hair dryer where the wires near the strain relief break down and start burning while hot. Before the actual cord malfunction, there was no indication on the outside of the cord that the wires on the inside had frayed enough to cause that area of the cord to burn up. It would be useful if you could buy power strips with AFC protection. It also sounds like it might help connections fail in outlet boxes especially metal ones arcing the hot to ground.
Good information. Thank you for sharing.
How iz konduc-tor hott if is nott in
circiut firsts ¿¿¿
We are officially in a Nanny State with this Arc fault BS!
Tell that to the people who have lost loved ones due to electrical fires. The NEC is produced by the NFPA, National Fire Protection Association.
we need
Super nanny
Than I need this days only a AFDD? 🤔
3 minits 50 second grafic is wrong sir
Power is Going though ground to hot like DC and wrong line from Ground to hot & direct current please make animation right its AC current sir
Please keep animation right according to speaker exponation please.
Very informative and excellently presented! Thanks for sharing and the best of luck!
Thanks for the video =)
One thing he failed to mention is that the National Fire Protection Agency says that these Arc Fault beakers help to reduce the risk of electrical fires as much as 50%.
A great explanation of all the Fault type breakers and a most excellent presentation....Thank you Eaton and the gent giving this for taking the time to do this.
When he does the test and says given these circumstances he should emphasize the exact circumstances in detail again. This helps him sound like a teacher and not a sales representative. Sounds like "please sir forget the exact circumstances and just trust me, this breaker will save your life over standard breakers"lmao cheezy
Jump to 4:20 for AFCI info.
Can you show more detail as to how these circuits are constructed to recognize arc faults? By the way, with the two different types of arc, is there a time line where some AFCI breakers were installed before the combination devices were commonly available? How do you recognize those older devices?
Cailluo
Mundanities animados caillu
That's a mighty fancy little tester you got there. I've never been able to recreate an arc fault situation in my shop with everyday items. I think they are more trouble than they are worth. By the way. The GFCI doesn't measure the current leaving against the current returning. It simply has a trip coil across the hot and neutral. If there is any difference of potential across the circuit the trip coil is energized. Ive seen some brands of tvs and ceiling fans trip arc fault breakers. They drive electricians crazy. Somebody is getting rich off these. I'm assuming it's the guys who convinced the NEC to adopt them.
GFCI do measure the difference between the hot and neutral wires currents ( not potentials) flowing in the opposite directions through the ring
of the coil of the current transformer. The difference in 5 mA. will interrupt current flow.
Mik Kra - You're exactly right. That's exactly how they work. This is why, when using an ammeter to measure current, you can't place something like an extension cord though the ammeter clamp. The hot an neutral will cancel each other out. You have to separate the hot and neutral, and the place the hot (in some cases, the neutral) alone through the ammeter clap. With a GFCI breaker, the current on the hot and neutral must match or else the breaker will trip. A difference of only 5 milliamps will trip a GFCI.
GFCI devices detect current differences between the hot neutral sides, not differences in potential. It uses a current transformer, and if the hot and load side currents are different by more than 5mA into a comparator a solenoid trips and opens the circuit. The assumption is that any difference is caused by a current leaking through a person to a ground. If you have seen TVs nuisance trip an AFCI, then either the AFCI breaker is an older device or the TV is incompatible with the AFCI. Newer generation AFCIs are much less susceptible to nuisance tripping from electronic devices.
Great video! Thank you!
Nice
Great Presentation and info...👍👍👍
AFCI- a fancy way of saying 30 dollar breakers instead of 4 to 5 dollar breakers. it's a money racket
Yeah, but think of all the extra nuisance tripping you get for the extra money.
So U dont think the safety of your family is worth it the extra money??
60 $
AxZxTxExCxA NO that is not the Point! That scare tactics is exactly what Eaton wants you to think!
And the dummies at the NEC bit off on Arc fault BS.
Millions of homes were built with out this nanny state over control and they are still standing today.
And even homes with post and knob wiring is still in use, because they have not burned down.
Are they safe? Well I would not want it! Arc fault is a money grab.
@Pimp My Ditch Witch Hhahaahah idk how you came up w/ this explanation but I'm sold!
Good job
These AFCI breakers are worth every penny. I had an experience that made me a believer. Here's the story: I bought a house that had standard circuit breakers, and I wanted to install AFCI breakers for safety. A few months later, I changed out the breakers for the 3 largest circuits in my house. The 3 breakers cost me about $120 at the hardware store, plus about 30 minutes of my time to install them. No joke, 1 month later, I woke up to no power in my bedroom. I checked the breakers, and I found that one of the AFCIs tripped. I reset the breaker, and then I started looking for what caused it to trip. I found that the cord on one of my lamps was damaged while we were moving, which is what blew the breaker. Nothing turned black or started on fire, but if I didn't install AFCI breakers, my house could have burned down from the damaged cord.
So if you are on the fence about installing AFCI breakers, DO IT. A few hundred dollars for the breakers, plus installation if you are not comfortable installing them yourself, is nothing compared to your house burning down, possibly with you in it.
If I'm not mistaken a hot to neutral arc trips a regular breaker also, I know a hot to ground arc trips a regular circuit breaker
guess ding - Re-watch the video. Pay better attention to the explanation of what is required to trip a "regular" breaker. Most arcing events do not create nearly enough of a current draw to cause a NON-AFCI breaker to trip.
What I don't understand is why the NEC only requires these in bedrooms. I understand that it's where people sleep, but an arc fault can occur anywhere in a home, with the same results. Is it because bedrooms typically don't have devices that would cause false tripping? Is it because of the cost of them? I do see the value in them, though. I used to live in a neighborhood with older homes. One of the homes near mine burnt down. After the investigation, it turned out that their teenage daughter had plugged something into an outlet in her bedroom, it arced a bit but it stopped and she left it plugged in. A few hours later the house was on fire and they lost everything.
They're required everywhere except bathrooms, garages, and porches now. I'm guessing the NEC used to only mandate them in bedrooms because they used to be worse about nuisance tripping and chances are you aren't plugging power tools or wet/dry vacuums into bedroom outlets. Plus if a fire starts in a bedroom you may not wake up soon enough to get out whereas if it starts somewhere else the smoke detectors should alarm in time for you to get out before the fire reaches the bedroom.
Just my theory anyway. AFCI's have gotten a lot better since they first came out. I unplugged a running space heater from an AFCI protected circuit once and the little arc in the socket didn't trip it.
NorthernWindNut - Thanks for the for the clarification.
William J.
Glad I could help
Great vid actually
Great 👍 thank you 🙏
CAN I INSTALL, ARC FAULT BREAKER ,WHEN THE NEUTRAL IS SHARE FOR 2 CIRCUITS, ?
Salvador ortuño why would you ever want to install one of these lol and if it’s for inspections then no you can’t share neutrals anymore
so live is hot and neutral return
Kinda. Sorta. Not really.
Current flows in a loop with AC electron flow switching back and forth like a made in Taiwan ping pong ball 60 times per second in North America [50 Hz in Namibia]. Americans enjoy a brief moment of 169.7 volts supplied to their cell phone chargers and toasters followed 8.33 milliseconds later by negative 169.7 volts in a sinusoidal wave with an equivalent DC (the root mean squared (RMS)) voltage of 120V . If you've got harmonics (not to be confused with a harmonica) then according to Fourier you've got nonlinear distortion composed of a butt load of sinusoidal waves imposing themselves on the fundamental wave like a child molester let loose in a Kindergarten. It's a vicious cycle if you're part of the circuit.
The black, red, blue, brown, orange or violet, and yellow UNGROUNDED wires are usually considered "Live/Hot" in the U.S.. This is by convention and really any conductive item of any color could be "Hot". For AC, the white Neutral "should" be grounded at your service panel along with the green Equipment Grounding Connector (EGC) wires and screws, which, by the name you can guess is also grounded. Double insulated power saws and drills work fine with no ground.
Just as Black Lives Matter, Black Wires Matter too. For DC volts, amps and power, black wires are typically chosen as the common or ground such as in your automobile or truck. If you work on your vehicle's electrical system then on your home's electrical system you could be in for a shock if you confuse black AC with black DC and you don't turn the circuit breaker off or disconnect the battery.
Hope this short explanation helped. Be safe.
Conceptually that is correct.
Very clear information. Thanks
The Arc fault breaker is another money grab. If you are not smart enough to look out for damaged wires you should not use electricity.
Says yet another moron who doesn't understand the importance of distinguishing between an ideal situation and the reality of the situation
What a creepy guy.