GFCI's work by passing the hot and neutral through a coil. As long as the inbound and outbound currents are the same, no voltage will be generated in the coil. If there is a difference, a voltage will be generated and picked up by the circuitry. AFCI's work by detecting high frequency noise on the circuit generated by the arcing. This is why they trip when using brushed motors. I'm sure our old school slot cars would have played havoc with them.
@@kamX-rz4uy Darn right! Up till this moment, I found it hard to really trust GFCIs because I couldn't figure out what the detection mechanism was. Now that I know, I can trust GFCIs.
I am a General Contractor in northern California and I became an electrician in the 80's and your video is how ALL videos should be here. Clear, accurate and to the point! Well done!!
As far as I can tell, none of these special devices will protect a human from a shock if the person grabs the hot and neutral at the same time. So some child grabbing and pulling out a plug when their little fingers go round to touch the conductors, before full disconnect, is still not protected. I'm not sure it's actually possible to provide this protection.
@@mb-3faze No but since you jogged my memory, it would probably protect from what I did at about two years old. I remember almost nothing from my youth however this is so vivid in my mind even now many decades later. IDK if the electricity burned it into my brain or if I remember it so vividly because how all the adults started screaming and freaking out. We had terrazzo floors and I was barefoot. I found a bobby pin / hair pin on the floor and I promptly stuck it in the wall socket. It was the type that was kinda “U” shaped and I put one end in each side and was immediately amazed with all the little fire balls jumping and rolling around on the terrazzo floor. How I wasn’t killed I’ll never know but then again I should have been killed many other times since then as well, I guess the Lord needs me here to be a bad example of stupid things to do.
But to be honest, it is not hard to explain what the purposes of the two devices are and how they work, is it? I mean, it's not as if the presenter is trying to explain how to take a signal in the time domain and convert it to a representation in the frequency domain...now that would be beyond most electricians.
I hope AFCI has gotten better in the past 5-6 years. They are widely known for the “nuisance tripping”. And for no apparent reason. My niece home has them and two of them kept tripping. After expensive service calls(2), they are replaced , and one of the breakers replaced twice. The replacements seemed to rectify the problems, finally. A lot of wasted money to correct the defective breakers.
I am a builder and this presentation is very difficult to improve upon. Congratulations. Wouldn't it be wonderful if all documentry TH-cams were done this way. So many are nothing more than a waste of time.
I have an old freezer that I had an extension cord on and it was fine for 9 months. But either the freezer died or the breaker can't handle it ?/ Not sure? I was also told the plug cannot have an extension cord attached to a larger appliance.
Comment about GFCI outlets and circuit breakers. I have installed several GFCI circuit breakers in outside standard "weather resistant" circuit breaker boxes. The GFCI circuit breakers are expensive, do cover all of the outlets and lights on that circuit. What I have found is that the GFCI circuit breakers can be sensitive to the weather conditions outside of the structure that they are placed in. Replacing the GFCI circuit breaker with a GFCI outlet in the first position after the breaker will provide the same outlet protection while still being sheltered from the elements.
I second that, I never install GFCI in an Outdoor Location. Much better to install them near the Breaker Panel. Also walking to the Breaker Panel, gives you time to think off, what you did wrong. BTW WR on the Receptacle Stands for Water Resistant. Always PO’s me when they are installed upside down, so the “WR,” is upside down.
It's what I never understood about some of GFCI outlet installations I've seen where the only one is at the end of a chain in the bathroom or kitchen or having to have a GFCI outlet at every outlet in said area when they are on the same circuit.
It’s totally true humidity and even temperature swings seem to trigger GFCI. Bathrooms are less affected because the outlet is in the wall and humidity/temp swings are short term. Outdoors, and humidity in an outlet can freeze and thaw, displacing the moisture further, causing a false trigger. Of course whether one considered it a false trigger is hotly debated. Many outdoor devices, for example a Radon fan I recently installed, specifically state not to wire to a GFCI circuit. That seems counter intuitive until you realize it’s service reliability will be greatly reduced throughout the year especially in cold winter months where ice will melt and displace moisture inside the motor housing causing a differential in hot/neutral voltage through resistance from the moisture. Naturally, you can’t install a radon fan or many fans/motors in general of AFCI or CFCI circuits because the brushes in the motor generate the high frequency noise detected by arc fault integrated circuits, causing a false trigger. I believe brushless motors will become more standard over time as integration into arc fault circuits is required by various codes but as it stands now at lease in Chicago where I live many devices can be excluded from arc fault circuits in new construction such as high frequency lighting, motors, pumps, etc.
It's likely that they were only required in the specific locations at the time of installation and early GFIs may not have had the passthrough feature of new ones.
The only time it makes sense to have a GFCI outdoors is when it's either in a shed a long distance from the supporting house or commercial building, OR when required by code in a temporary service for a construction site... and then consider it disposable, even when in a "weatherproof" enclosure. A practice I find useful is to have a GFCI inside on a box near a door with an outside weather cover receptacle opposite it. Sometimes that's useful if adding an outdoor receptacle, or when daisy chains to a single breaker or first receptacle after a breaker isn't practical, or as easy to reset.
Your point about them being required in new boxes put me at ease about why it was so hard to find a combo AFCI/GFCI receptacle today. Sounds like new house doesn't need AFCI because it's already present at the breaker, old house doesn't "need" it because it's not needed for code. The only people still shopping for them are overly cautious DIYers and special projects. But I needed a GFCI for the wet areas, and decided to splurge for one for a dedicated microwave line. I'll be happy to have spent the extra $9 total to reduce my fire risk by at least that much. Luckily, while they didn't really upgrade my breaker, they did re-run most of the Romex. So at least I'm not looking at fabric in this 100 year old house.
Removed the town mandated AFCI breaker on our refrigerator after two nuisance trips. Lost hundreds of $$$ in food as we were out of town in both events. AFCI breakers were mandated after a kitchen remodel. We had NO electrical problems for 23 years before the remodel. Also removed the AFCI breaker for the 110 volt line that powers the igniters for the gas burners on our stove for the nuisance tripping issue. The oven would loose its flame w/o warning.
It is code that dedicated motor loads like your refrigerator and your garbage disposal. Do not have to be GFI. It’s somewhere in section 250 and if you note it is the largest section in the NEC.
Gas stove igniters have been the cause of losing 2 speed control boards from stove hood fans on 1 of my jobs. Now, i run the gas stove on it's own circuit.
When we took over the 30 year old house we live in ,I was amazed by how it passed code,15amp Gfci on a 20amp breaker,non functional, and the other in my garage as well as not functional 2 story house 1989 build.Just recently changed my last fixture in the hall closet,and no suprise ground wasn't connected plastered in place lol.Eventually we will have whole house rewired and replumbed.Good explanation video.
@@CharlesMartel676 ya i think the in-laws were just trusting that the City Inspector did there job,I was flabbergasted to say the least when we first walked into the house.But frame to finish in 30days is Sketchy back then it was only 3 inspections if I remember correctly 1989-90 when my house was built and finished.Hell even my tile roof is dropping tiles like dollars on a stage.
I discovered that spider nests inside my outdoor receptacles caused my panel GCFI to trip. Replaced the cheap receptacles with commercial grade and haven't had a problem since.
Most clearly written and spoken explanation that I have seen on TH-cam. I have subscribed because I am hoping that all videos on this TH-cam channel are narrated with carefully composed and edited language
Thank you for this. I think I'm going to use this video to demonstrate the purposes of these devices. I'm currently working on a retrofit where I plan to replace a lot of receptacles with dual-function units, and replacing some light switches with these newly invented AFCI light switches. Extremely handy for old homes!
My new house has AFCI breakers with GFCI receptacles in garage , kitchen and bathrooms. The electrician we hired to hook us to the grid told us that's a costly breakers box but worth it. 30 plus years working as a plant operator at a power plant you get to know breakers well. By the way well done video.
All these descriptions are all well and good but you missed the most important part! The National Electrical Code (NEC) and the National Fire Prevention Association (NFPA) have made GFCI and AFCI MANDITORY FOR ALL CIRCUITS! I recently changed out the entire electrical system in my house. Much of it was aluminum wire with cloth covering into ungrounded metal boxes without retaining clamps! I had to replace everything from the meter to the last outlet box! The fire inspector showed me in the code book the distances apart, the power limitations, and the protection required. Needless to say, the job QUADRUPLED in cost!
I don't know how code works where you live, but were I live old circuits are grandfathered, and you do not need to redo them to modern code, if you do not touch them.
Don't get a permit, don¡t let any “official” in your house, I threw two union gas guys out of my house when one started inspecting when they were just in the house to make sure everything was good when they turned the gas back on after the main were worked on outside, i've never let them back in again
Yes, indeed. Furniture legs, especially metal legs, can cause the wires in an extension cord to short. That's a parallel arc or over-current condition.
I had to install some AFCIs in a new shop building to pass inspection. After the inspection I switched them to GFCIs so I could use tools like a drill or saw that created sparks internally and tripped the AFCI. A 120v drill is liable to be plugged in anywhere in your house, so I'm not a fan.
That’s a great idea until something happens and the fire inspector finds you changed them and then your home insurance is voided by your home insurance company.
If you put GFI breakers in your breaker boxes be sure and label them both prominently and indelibly. Joe Weekend might be asking for a shock when he replaces them with just-as-good breakers, but his kids probably deserve our best efforts to protect them
I recently ran a new circuit in my garage because one just didn't exist. The breaker I installed is a combo CAFCI/GFCI because overbuilt is better than underbuilt.
I'm very sensitive to fire prevention. My close family came home one weekend night, and found the apartment building they lived in on fire. No one was hurt, but the apartment and all its contents were gone. Same for several other apartment. Fire dept was on scene and fire was already under control when they came home. Investigation concluded that fire was due to old/faulty wiring. Building had good insurance. The trauma of such a destruction and upheaval struck me hard. Been very thoughtful about fire prevention and fire suppression since. Photoelectric smoke detectors, fire extinguishers, turning off breakers when I leave the house etc etc. Thanks for the info!
Sounds like a terrible thing to happen. That said, how do you feel about "protection" devices that are so unreliable, they induce people to ignore the very problems they are supposed to protect against, or to just get rid of the devices altogether? Because that's what AFCI breakers are right now. They are like a smoke detector that goes off at the drop of a hat, whether there's a fire or not.
Keep in mind that with 128.45 million households in the USA (2020 Census) 35,000 fires means that there is a .027% chance of having a fire. Of which something like half (17,500) may be prevented with AFCI/CFCI protection, about .013% chance of having an AFCI/CFCI preventable fire. This could be broken down further to work out your particular risk. Which is not to say this is not a good idea for protection. I thought your video was good and clear and thanks for making it but I did feel that the number of households is relevant. Thanks for the video.
My sister has combo GFCI/AFCI breakers in her 2017 Atlanta house. One kept false-tripping. Moved its position in the breaker box and the problem followed the breaker. Others in the subdivision had the same problem and clued her in to the generic problem. We called the manufacturer (forgot) and they mailed 10 new breakers free, as a stealth recall. Hope the new design works better. My house has older Zinsco breakers with no GFCI option so I have those as outlets some places (kitchen, bath, outside).
Thanks for the nuggets of difference on using the “combination” in lieu of basic AFCI for more robust arc protection. I was trying to figure it why I’d spend more money on what appeared to both be dual function GFCI/AFCI. Now I know if it doesn’t have C/AFCI you’re missing out on that additional point of protection in the circuit algorithm.
I had an arcing issue with an outlet in my basement. The hot wire was found to be loose and had carboned up over the years. If it was not for my dog alerting me, (He kept staring and sniffing the outlet) I probably would have had a fire for sure. I could see the glow when I took the outlet cover off! So I would say an AFTI would have worked there. BTW, that dog got a nice juicy steak for his meal. George B
I have AFCI in my trailer, and want to share an experience with regard to nuisance trips. I learned that a battery charger, not connected to load has some sort of issue because when i plugged in, the AFCI tripped. A regular outlet on a circuit breaker does not, nor does a GFCI. I have two of these chargers, the second does not trip the AFCI. Leading me to think that a problem in the first one is likely the cause, so I disposed of it to be safe. Thanks for this video.
I installed AFCI breakers on all my old (1955) circuits. However, I had to remove one and go back to the original breaker on the furnace motor circuit. Too many nuisance trips. There is an issue with GFCI breakers. I have one circuit that supplies an outdoor outlet. When the contractor remodeled the master bathroom, he tied it into that circuit. Now, if the outdoor outlet trips, it affects the bathroom outlet too.
This is a very good video for new homes or a rehab. It's code the more protection the better less of a fire. You might spend a little more or more than you expect, but it worth it . If you work at home it's worth having up dated electrical.
Good info. From the consumer side, it is good to know what could cause "trips". I had a 20amp circuit installed and run to my outdoor shed. There's a 20AMP GFCI that serves the building. I recently started using a 12k BTU which keeps tripping the plug. It pulls 7-10amps when running at it's max cooling. I've never seen it go over 1000 watts (I have a monitor on the plug/line). I've read where you shouldn't plug a portable A/C into a GFCi circuit. I'm installing a new box with one plug (w/o GFCI) just for the A/C since it's got it's own built in GFCI, and use the other outlet (GFCI) for the rest of the shed (lights, battery chargers etc). The line feeding this is on a 20amp breaker at my MAIN power box FWIW. This has been running me crazy but your video gives me some insight. Regards
Aside from cost an issue particularly with GFCI & AFCI circuit breakers is the amount of extra space they take up in a panel. One of these typically takes up the space of 2 normal breakers. The receptacles also take up much more space in a box which can be a problem when there are multiple wire connectors for branch circuits in there. I've installed several circuit breakers to keep up with code requirements. Also have a couple GFCI receptacles. No problems with the GFCI breaker but had an AFCI breaker fail. Can't confirm why but I don't think it was due to circuit overload & suspect the breaker itself was faulty, nearly caused a fire. I smelled burning, went to investigate & found the breaker scorched at the neutral connection. I disconnected the other AFCI breaker & hooked the circuits back up with standard breakers. No longer trust AFCI circuit breakers after that episode.
Two years after your post I'd like to note that here in Honolulu, some insurers are mandating the update, or they will cancel insurance. So if you need to replace anything now, just get the update and not the old style. (And yeah - expensive...)
Hi I invented the AFCI. I think your video is a good introduction for the general public. There are several things that are misunderstood, such as, a AFCI also has an embedded GFCI circuit. The GFCI trip detection is 100 to 300 milliamps of leakage current in an AFCI breaker; while a GFCI for electrical shock protection trips at 6 to 8 milliamps. This is confusing when trying to isolate the tripping issue; as most electricians are unaware that leakage currents can trip the AFCI. I am George Auther Spencer, 81 years old. I was issued my first AFCI patent in Aug 1990. I now live near Athens Texas and have invented a new wind turbine, three patents issued, that can produce 5X the power per acre of any wind turbine today; this includes GE's 12 MW turbine... As crazy as this sounds; it can also out produce a nuclear power plant per acre in 45 mph wind speeds, with no upper wind speed cutoff... even in 100 mph winds. I now need to raise between $10M and $30M to complete the final phase and install a fully functional unit.
Then you're the guy to answer a question I have. Have a couple of beefy extension cords outside (used for tools, Christmas lights, and more) and recently I plugged it in and about 20 seconds later a loud noise, sparks and white smoke, and a fire...put it out with an extinguisher. Looks like a rat chewed a small section of insulation. It is one of the old standard breakers. So my question - would an AFCI breaker have prevented the fire? Thanks!
You have one of the best videos I have seen so far... no distracting music and jokes... so eloquent, structured, informative and detailed. And you left that annoying cliche like subscribe and comment nonsense for the end (take it out all together!! everyone says it.. if your channel is awesome people will do it without you telling them to) Keep this kind of content up and you'll b on your way to a million subscribers
As an engineer, I found this video really good on one point many miss, and poor on others. I was waiting to hear it claim a GFCI senses current to ground, and impressed that it spelled out difference between hot and neutral, while avoiding that common error. That of course is what enables a GFCI to be useful with 2 wire appliances common in kitchens and baths. How it does that could be compared to an Amprobe type meter, and why it reads near zero if looped over a power cord, versus a single conductor. Anyone familiar with CMRR in microphone and similar cables, or differential amplifiers in instrumentation, plus with basic physics of current and magnetism, could of course picture a deeper level of detail. Also think UTP and STP in telecom and data networking cables. AFCI's may detect some of the described faults, but their Code legislative justification is most certainly NOT for the basic building safety violations this video suggests. The solution to that is blacklilst the incompetent jerks pretending to be those electricians. Bedroom locations for AFCI's assume they're locations where old dried out and tiny SPT wire to lamps or small appliances with failure modes from broken insulation at pinch and bend points starts fires, as well as use of undersize extension cords, or crap receptacles (eg, Chinese outlet strips rated 15 amps with heaters, that catch fire as they age just slightly). Those cables may arc when failing, without a ground fault, and with far less current than a normal breaker trip. By comparison, 14 or 12 AWG permanent wiring rarely has those same faults, and is more of an issue in a kitchen or laundry feed. As to how or what AFCI's detect, "noise patterns" is a fairly decent answer, but absent going into electrical engineering details, it's sort of hard to give an accurate as well as simple answer. FCC does not itself certify Part 15 low power unintentional radiator conformance, but contrary to a couple of mentions in this video, that has nothing to do with the fire hazards AFCI's are meant to prevent. (Junk knockoff products illegally imported via ScAmazon may have other unrelated quality of manufacture defects, which are in fact relevant to AFCI detect parameters. ScAmazon blacklists customers who post factually accurate reviews critical of spec and legal frauds of those types, by it or its vendors. Its coerced distribution from their warehouses and logistics services place them in the position of physical commerce in such items it then pretends are only third party crooks, as if eBay shippers in China; if only Customs, the FBI, FTC, and FCC, did a serious investigation, it'd require shutting down all ScAmazon warehouses for a few years of detailed review of many items.)
Thanks for your feedback! One quick point is that AFCI's are required pretty much everywhere in a home now, bedrooms were the initial requirement 25 years ago. Most likely to phase in the requirement over time. Doesn't make much sense to only have them in a specific area of a home otherwise since you can have damaged in-wall wiring, loose connections, or bad devices in any part of a home.
@@TopHomeowner If we think about where lamps or small appliances with such potential failures are used, that's also "anywhere", even if bedrooms were the original focus. There are also the false trip issues largely from brush motors, and adverse response to AFCI's when fans, vacuums, small tools, kitchen mixers, fans, etc, may have conflicts. The intervening time may have assumed people would adapt, designs to lessen those conflicts mature, and costs go down or be more expected than when initially introduced. There are places where false trips are more serious, like the freezer in my garage not far from a double laundry tub utility sink, where risks from a false trip are more serious than ground faults or arc faults. In some regions, AFCI's may help with yet another failure cause... Not bad wiring from electricians, but rodents love to eat certain plastics, or burrow in attic insulation. In those cases, only breaker versions and not point of use device receptacles, can help.
Good video. Risk management is something we, as modern humans, haven't really needed to do on such a vast and large scale for a long time. I'm happy to see more awareness of the need to be "aware" of the risks we face in our modern world. However I think we need to use caution when approaching the concept of "make the world 100% safe for everyone." Life has risk and is the cost benefit ratio for said risk(s) worthwhile? I don't know but it's worth discussing.
you really think people came here to read you babbling about stuff you have such little knowledge in but feel compelled to toss out a ton of cliches to appear smart?
If/when home insurers demand changing out receptacles for pre-80's homes (that do not have grounds ( I know this because they are in my house and i only know this because i have to replace one or more as i speak - the reason i must learn this), we might as well learn about it as DYI 'ERS.
The arc fault of both kinds are pretty much Nanny junk . What needs to happen is just a device to test the circuit upon installation ... which would be nice if it could tell you how far down the line the arc is happening. Then fix it ,,, but for regular use , just use your regular over amperage breakers. GFCI's are of course good things though. I guess also if doing anything involving penetrating the wall with nails & screws. Would then be a good time to test the circuit for arc faults. Knowing your circuits , and where the wires might be running is a good thing for any DIYer . But this set it and forget it type of safety , is pretty ridiculous IMHO .
It's always a pleasure to watch your videos. Your presentations are well-organized, informative, clear and thorough, so I always take away a bit beyond what I came for.
In my new home, I replaced the basement GFI breakers with old school breakers. Got tired of random breaker trips. The electrician said he sees this a lot in new homes. Nothing "wrong", just is what it is.
In 2020 we got a new to us home. We had the service upgraded to AFCI breakers. Within six months a tree in the yard was hit by lightning. That caused every breaker to trip. We had zero damage because of this. I would never go back to standard breakers again. It saved everything electrical in the home and we only had to get the tree removed.
I am an engineer and I live in Brazil. Here GFCI's do exist for a long time, but they were not mandatory. Only recently they became mandatory by law enforcement. Nonetheless, it is still quite rare to see them even in new houses or buildings. People in general do not understand why GFCI's are necessary, people tend to think they are superfluous things, expensive and not necessary. And here they are not built in the power outlets. They are always of the 'circuit breaker' type. Here NEMA style breakers were mainly used in the past, new installations are moving towards DIN style rail mounted breakers.
That’s interesting you guys use DIN rail mounted breakers. I’ve only seen that in industrial control panels and commercial buildings but never seen it in houses. I like learning how countries differ in their electrical installations. Have a good one, cheers!
@@koryabel6319DIN rail mounted 89mm breakers are standard everywhere outside North America. Fuse replacement circuit breakers are another user installable option (and they are also available for automotive type fuses too).
@@koryabel6319DIN breakers are basically the standard un europe with GFCI protection for all rooms (amd probably for a good reason, it's 240V circuits after all)
Thanks for the information. I don't understand why these things are not installed as standard requirements in the houses when they are being built. I really don't understand.
Hello, thank you for the informative video. I have a quick question: Given that many garage fires in Canada are caused by car block heater malfunctions, would it be more effective to use a GFCI or AFCI outlet for a block heater? Additionally, can an AFCI outlet be installed outside the garage, provided it is placed in a weather-protected enclosure? Thank you.
With all of the very good electronic stud/electric detectors now available for fairly cheap - really the huge problems with the AFCI are avoidable. AFCI's do not work that well - they go off routinely from normal motor arcing; from various fully correctly functioning appliances or tools. The vast majority of Fires caused from 'arcing' is from small brads or nails etc. used to hang pictures or some such up on a wall. Where the person putting the item up on the wall - inadvertently slightly compromises the electrical romex behind the wall with just a very small 'prick' of metal - which is just very slightly arcing sometimes. And eventually heats up enough and drys up enough - that it starts a fire.
I'll note also that modern code requires in-wall cabling to be installed in a way that pretty much minimizes or eliminates any chance of damaging the cable that way. In studs, where one is going to be screwing long screws through, plates are used over the cable penetrations, and elsewhere the cable isn't right up against the drywall, and is likely to just flex out of the way if someone is so careless as to continue drilling long after they're all the way through the drywall. Besides the fact that arcing may not even start happening right away, so by the time the breaker trips, who knows if anyone will remember why it might have started or know where to look for the problem that's hidden in the wall.
The first intent of arc fault interupters I was taught was for low leaks mainly from electronic equipment that regular breakers couldn't detect and GFI wouldn't detect, thus guarding against heat buildup in those devices and their risk of catching fire.
Once got in an argument with an electrician who came to do an estimate at my mothers house. He kept interrupting and correcting me whenever I said GFCI. "you mean GFI, ground fault interrupt". I let it go. But after he left my mom and I turned to each other. "yeah, he's not getting the job". I've been building electronics since I was 10 years old. My favorite place to hang out when I was a kid was Radio Shack, back when it was more than batteries and cell phones. My mom was confident I knew what I was talking about, and this electrician was possibly not so great. Besides, nobody wants to work with a rude contractor. We found a better guy through a neighbor who runs a construction business.
I’m a resi guy looking for better ways to explain to people how GFCIs work. I always use the same example of the hairdryer in the bathroom. Anyway, great explaination mate!
Thanks for the excellent video. I was hoping that you would spend a little more time on 'nuisance trips'. Major appliances like microwaves and refrigerators can have higher current draw at startup and cause the AFCI receptacles to nuisance-trip - or so I have been told. I have been bothered by nuisance trips in my microwave circuit, and have been meaning to get around to taking out that receptacle and replacing it with a standard one. BTW, I was told by the building inspector to do this if it became a nuisance. Since the microwave is on a dedicated circuit and the microwave's chassis is grounded, I don't see any risk in doing so. Comments?
A dedicated circuit and grounded chassis don't have any relevance to arc faults, the events AFCI are intended to address. That said, I had a house built, moved in a few years ago, and the AFCI breakers were all kinds of trouble. We eventually got things settled down, mainly by putting in newer versions of the same breakers. Apparently the manufacturer does work to update them to have less nuisance tripping. But even so, while it's a lot better now, they still trip for no good reason once in a while (the vacuum cleaner being the main culprit at this point). The breaker manufacturers love to quote how many house fires might be avoided with AFCI breakers. But with all the false positives, people learn to not trust the breakers. And if the fault is inside a wall, it's not like a homeowner even has any sort of practical way to diagnose the problem. They're just going to assume that it's a nuisance trip, get annoyed it keeps happening, and put in a non-AFCI breaker, negating any benefit the AFCI breaker might have provided for all that expense. This seems to me a great example of a road to hell being paved with good intentions (if one charitably really believes that the manufacturers are just out to save lives, and not just grab thousands of extra dollars per new home built).
@@dryan8377 Yeah a GFCI thats not faulty never has nuisance trips, its not the same with the AFCI, as it just looks for waveforms that look like sparking, so if an appliance generates those waveforms its gonna trip the AFCI.
Here in Germany the GFCI is mandatory for all new electrical installations for the whole house. I have installed them to protect my whole house, and I think everyone should at least have them (Although the voltage in the US is only half as high). But we have different panels than you guys do, so we can install one GFCI (with no breaker inside) for multiple breakers, so the cost really isnt that high over here. I havent given much thought about AFCIs, but it might be a good decision to get them as well, although they can cause problems with the nuisance tripping and they are more expensive than GFCIs over here.
If you are operating with 240 volts with ring circuits. The amperage never reaches the threshold to need protection for series circuits. Parallel arcing would still be needed but I haven’t heard of those in EUROPEAN countries.
Great job, so, my AFCI breaker is tripping on a brand new install of a Trane Heat Pump in new construction. When approaching the contractor, how do I address this if they want to just replace the breaker with a non-AFCI?
As I understand it - you get to WAIT until the project is done. And then get the contractor to come back or you do it yourself - but replace it with just a GFCI. Course you could go 'standard' - but I love GFCI's and the safety they give and their reliability. AFCI's are a mandated problem; which your contractor cannot legally substitute. They are a good idea - but it seems they are also impossible to make so that you don't have them tripping from totally correctly functioning appliances.
I had a GFCI outlet that would trip when I had a space heater on it and too much connected to the same circuit it was on but not on gfci's. The breaker would never flip just the GFCI outlet would flip. I suppose with the space heater pulling a good amount of power a long way and two other outlets pulling power a good distance must of eventually caused the load on the GFCI outlet to become unbalanced.
Thanks for the info. Most electricians have no idea. I hope some CEU's are required for license renewal. Can you please explain 208 single phase in a residential application?
Maybe you could explain more why each breaker is required under current code? I first heard of AFCI breakers a few years ago when replacing my main panel. This house was built in 1978 and, at the time, panels didn't have a master breaker. 150A feeds were allowed for "Arkansas" homes (energy efficient) instead of the standard 250A for other homes and the combo worried me. I was required to install AFCI in bedroom circuits. I've heard 2 reasons. 1. Kids might plug something into an outlet. 2. Outlets that are used a lot will break sooner. In either case, you don't want a fire in a sleeping space.
Regulations always increase in every industry. Building codes are making it so expensive to build. Yes it is slightly safer but with increasing homelessness is it a net positive?
@@JD-yx7be True. But I'd add that it's not building codes that are driving the costs of housing. Material costs are WAY up and an entry level house is 50% bigger these days. Sub-1000 sqft was common thru the 80's for entry level. Lot costs are so high these days that an old house is a fraction of the total value of the property.
My house was built in 52 here in Arkansas and I have absolutely no idea how it made it from then until I bought it. It originally had a single 100 amp breaker and that's it. I now have a 300 amp service (convenient now that we have two electric cars) the actual wiring coming into the weather head was overkill and I have two of my own transformers separate from the rest of the neighborhood My shop has its own meter and separate billing because my shop has 277 volt light fixtures that look like they were pulled out of an old factory, and also came with welders , a drill press, and a few other large machines all labeled 208 volt (I honestly have no idea how it gets 208 but the 277 is its own completely independent circuit with a completely different weather head) I'm assuming all that equipment was also from some factory that went out of business.
Is there such a thing as a Dual-Function CAFCI/GFCI receptacle? And if not, can you install a CAFCI receptacle with a GFCI downstream and have the protection of both without using the dual-function breaker?
Ground fault is not good when you are the conductor. So yes a hospital visit should also be scheduled. The interrupter that triggers on the slope of the current is there to protect the circuits plugged into it.
Years ago, AC-DC motors with brushes and commutators were commonplace and you could frequently see them arcing. I wonder how those AFCIs would handle that situation.
They DON'T not very well! Manufacturers have submitted 'maps' of the arcing from motors - which are somehow programmed into the AFCI - but that doesn't work very well. They go off all the time when using a vacuum or a treadmill or a drill... They've become required in various places of the home - and than after approval and someone living there - they sometimes get removed - because tools or just doing regular household work or functions - set them off.
That's over-engineered crap, it trips on vacuum motors or even just very slowly closing a light switch, just having the ground wire and a GFCI outlet I consider to be perfectly safe.
Would it make sense to just replace all of the breakers in the panel with AFCI rather than replacing all the receptacles in the house (except to have GFCI in wet areas)?
You also have the very real problem - that after you replace them all - and spend the cash - you WILL shortly be going back to the original breakers or putting in GFCI breakers which work just fine and protect from a much more common hazard - which can occur in ANY area. AFCI's are plagued with nuisance tripping.
Good video, except I think that nuisance trips should have been discussed a lot more. I had to replace several GFCI outlets with regular outlets because ceiling fans would cause trips. Also, outdoor irrigation wiring is exposed to dampness. It tripped off my irrigation and I lost a lot of plants.
RCD or RCCB would work way better you just need one for a whole 40amp running house thats like 30kw installed power thats for 240V one phase or three phase but there are RCCBs for 110V too so you shouldnt have a prob finding them .
I learned not to put GFCI sockets on refrigerators or freezers. The last thing you want is the fridge or freezer to shut off - particularly when you might not know it happened. (Refrigerators should, of course, be on separate circuits.)
@@shadowwalker4633 The UK has a similar devices. More often the whole circuit is protected, usually with an RCD (residual current detector/device) and that's roughly the same as a GFCI. You can get individually protected sockets too. The trip current is different between the US and UK standards, but then again, the danger of a 240V shock is a whole lot worse than at 110.
Excellent info & presentation. Not enough information is made available to the public to be able to make an informed decision so thank you for sharing and placing some light on this crucial subject, It is very much appreciated.
If you protect a circuit with a breaker, are you required to put a GFCI sticker on all protected receptacle wall plates? Or, are there wall plates with GFCI emblazoned on them?
If you have circuits with a shared neutral (typically a three wire situation with a black, red and white wire on two single pole120v breakers or one double pole breaker), the labeling on a dual function breaker specifically warns that this may cause nusance tripping and to not use a DF in this situation. I am currently remodeling a house that was built in 1951 that has two prong outlets without an equipment ground wire. I want to upgrade the outlets to three prong outlets and by code can either add a ground wire or add GFCI protection. Otherwise, I need to replace the two prong outlets with the same thing. The bottom line is that I can only use GFCI breakers on these circuits and these are currently more expensive than dual function breakers because of code changes that require their use in most locations. Perhaps the author is aware of a dual function receptacle that will work with shared neutrals.
I just got power back after losing it for 3 days due to hurricane berly. Problem is that my bedrooms and its lights don’t have power. I went to circuit breaker panel and tripped the 3 breakers, but to no avail. The three breakers show AFCI. Is it ok to replace those 3 breakers with regular breakers since the cost of AFCI breakers are 10x more at Home Depot. Thx.
Have a bathroom outlet 3 feet from sink and outlet is GFCI. House built 2012. Would a wall mounted heater require (or would it be highly advisable) AFCI on plug? Thank you.
It should be noted that the GFCI breaker predates the availability of GFCI receptacles by several years. My parents house has a GFCI breaker in the outdoor outlets and the powder room receptacles. The master and main bathroom has those transformer limited electric razor only outlets. Homes built just a few years later simply put a GFCI receptacle in the powder room and have the outdoor outlets in series with that GFCI receptacle.
Video was 6 months ago. I have a older house and had to have a new breaker box installed because I couldn’t get anymore breakers in the box. The electrician installed AFCI breakers because he stated that when they built the house and if they crossed wires in a plug or several plugs it would keep tripping the GFCI. Is that correct?? Since I’m not a electrician I would like to know. Thanks. 03-14-2023
Ground fault interrupters will also protect you from electronic devices that may have one of their "power" leads grounded to the chassis, either intentional or due to wiring issue. This was fairly common in the '70s though the '80s. If you are not grounded, you wouldn't know it existed. But if you are grounded, you will be the return path of the electricity. ACs, Heaters, Refrigerators, TVs, Toasters all were notorious for wiring the return to the chassis and did not have a true ground. If you ever where at grandma's house and touch the toaster or fridge and then touched the metal of the sink and got a mild shock, that was because you became part of the electrical circuit. If you were properly grounded it would go from a mild shock to a serious hazard.
Pretty hard to get hot and neutral any closer together than touching side by side in an entire home run if you use 12-2-2 for powering two separate circuits.
Any thoughts on the Ting monitor? State Farm, who has my homeowner's policy, had me sent one. It claims to monitor the entire house for some sorts of faults just be being plugged into an outlet (and hooked to WiFI) (and you have the app on your phone). Whisker Labs makes them.
I’m going to let you in on a little secret: they don’t come looking at your breaker box unless you give them reason to. Fortunately, in my jurisdiction, there is no building code enforcement, nor is there permitting, etc. I prefer freedom.
@lwheatcraft I don't know which is best? It's thoroughly enforced here... not to mention if something went tragic, the insurance corp would be using code violations as an out to skip out on the payday.
Probably not. ACFIs and GCFIs protect against downstream faults and shorts. A lightning strike or power company surge is upstream event and I don't think will be detected by the acfi or gcfi. If I'm wrong, convince me.
My brand new (2022) house has AFCI breakers. Out clothes drier trips it constantly. I disconnected the second ground wire in the back of the drier to prevent this but can I just replace the Arc Fault breaker with a normal GFCI breaker and reconnect that wire in the drier? If not, what am I SUPPOSED to do to remain in code?
An arcing demonstration involving a little bathroom space heater being unplugged while running (in a dimly lit room), would give people a good real-world picture of how things arc. And what not to do.
Yes, it’s true that your scenario may produce an arc. So what? Any mechanic switch that opens with current flowing may cause arcing. Including: circuit breakers! The trick is how does the “switch”handle it? Citing your plug pulling scenario again apart from erosion of the plug blade and/or receptacle from arcing (and that would take many insertions/extractions) what else is the danger? I’m don’t have a problem with any regular current trip OR GFCI breakers but, AFCI breakers having nuisance trips because of normal equipment operation in a properly wired installation seems like an unnecessary burden.
The fire study almost sounds like the one presented by the Plumbers Union calling for the inclusion of sprinklers in new construction. They only add $8k to the price of a 1800 sq/ft house. (not including servicing) If people stopped running extension cords under carpets, a large percentage of fires could be prevented. Some for factory built gang receptacle cords.
I think afci is just a bandaid for making shoddy electrical connections such as back stabbing plugs, ect. If electricians would take the time to pre twist wires and put them in a wire nut, pigtail and side wire receptacles, etc, I don’t think there would be many arc faults to begin with.
So I had my orginal panel updated. Doing this now my fridge always trips my gfci outlet. I thought it was cause my breaker amp was too small (15amp) so I replaced it with a 20amp breaker and it still is tripping the gfci outlet. What should I do?
This is GREAT info. Well done. But you said that there is a dual CAFCI and GFCI breakers available "if you have room in your breaker box" What did you mean? Did you mean that these dual breakers are physically larger, or did you mean if we just have more slots available in our box?
I suppose most aren't old enough to remember when window air conditioner units would burn houses down. The high current draw would cause arcing, leading to a fire. It happened quite a bit. I forget, was it 2002 when they added it to the NEC?
Q: Since current is reduced when you plug things into an outlet that produces a load, and you mentioned that GCFI operates by detecting even the tiniest difference between the neutral and the hot wires (which is where the load occurs), then how does it differentiate between a load an a fault? Also, I do think GCFI + CAFI dual function outlets should be standard everywhere in all new home construction. It just makes sense. What doesn't is the deliberately inflated price of these devices by manufacturers trying to profit off of consumer safety.
_"how does it differentiate between a load an a fault?"_ -- as long as there's no fault, the current is _exactly the same_ at either end of the circuit. Adding a load to a circuit doesn't "reduce the current". It's what _causes_ current to flow and you'll see the exact same amount of current no matter where in the circuit it's measured. (Maybe you are confusing current with voltage; all else equal, a load will cause a voltage drop...but even there, modern electrical services usually can handle all but the largest loads without any significant voltage drop.)
It compares the live and neutral. A load does not cause imbalance. Also a load does not reduce current, it causes it. Without any load there is no current. Seems you have some fundamental misconception about electricity. Think of a water pipe , same amount of water comes out as goes in. If that is not the case then there is a leak. Similarly s GFCI detects a leak in an electric circuit.
GFCI's work by passing the hot and neutral through a coil. As long as the inbound and outbound currents are the same, no voltage will be generated in the coil. If there is a difference, a voltage will be generated and picked up by the circuitry. AFCI's work by detecting high frequency noise on the circuit generated by the arcing. This is why they trip when using brushed motors. I'm sure our old school slot cars would have played havoc with them.
The power packs were transformers with IRRC 1/2 wave selenium rectifiers. Would be interesting to find out.
Thanks for this information, would have been nice if it was included in the video.
@@kamX-rz4uy Darn right! Up till this moment, I found it hard to really trust GFCIs because I couldn't figure out what the detection mechanism was. Now that I know, I can trust GFCIs.
This comment is better than the video
Thank you for taking the time to provide the additional clarification. It's good to know THAT they work, but even better to know HOW they work.
I am a General Contractor in northern California and I became an electrician in the 80's and your video is how ALL videos should be here. Clear, accurate and to the point! Well done!!
Thank you!
Yes, I liked it, too. No fluffing around, just raw information.
As far as I can tell, none of these special devices will protect a human from a shock if the person grabs the hot and neutral at the same time. So some child grabbing and pulling out a plug when their little fingers go round to touch the conductors, before full disconnect, is still not protected. I'm not sure it's actually possible to provide this protection.
@@mb-3faze
No but since you jogged my memory, it would probably protect from what I did at about two years old.
I remember almost nothing from my youth however this is so vivid in my mind even now many decades later.
IDK if the electricity burned it into my brain or if I remember it so vividly because how all the adults started screaming and freaking out.
We had terrazzo floors and I was barefoot. I found a bobby pin / hair pin on the floor and I promptly stuck it in the wall socket.
It was the type that was kinda “U” shaped and I put one end in each side and was immediately amazed with all the little fire balls jumping and rolling around on the terrazzo floor.
How I wasn’t killed I’ll never know but then again I should have been killed many other times since then as well, I guess the Lord needs me here to be a bad example of stupid things to do.
But ALL your sockets are CRAP
I am an electrical engineer and a contractor and want to say, that it's a very good and easy to understand explanation of AFCI and GFCI protection.
But to be honest, it is not hard to explain what the purposes of the two devices are and how they work, is it?
I mean, it's not as if the presenter is trying to explain how to take a signal in the time domain and convert it to a representation in the frequency domain...now that would be beyond most electricians.
Thanks, I appreciate that!
@@deang5622 you're so SMRT....
@@deang5622 dont be that guy. "Acckkttually..."
Fast fourier transform.....
@@deang5622
Thank you for not embedding background music to this video. I liked the clear explanations and good camera work.
I hope AFCI has gotten better in the past 5-6 years. They are widely known for the “nuisance tripping”. And for no apparent reason. My niece home has them and two of them kept tripping. After expensive service calls(2), they are replaced , and one of the breakers replaced twice. The replacements seemed to rectify the problems, finally. A lot of wasted money to correct the defective breakers.
I am a builder and this presentation is very difficult to improve upon. Congratulations. Wouldn't it be wonderful if all documentry TH-cams were done this way. So many are nothing more than a waste of time.
For the common person, like me, this was a good explanation.
Examples of devices that might trip an AFCI would be helpful.
I made a follow-up video about devices that can be an issue here: th-cam.com/video/U6TGWmZcDCc/w-d-xo.html
I have an old freezer that I had an extension cord on and it was fine for 9 months.
But either the freezer died or the breaker can't handle it ?/ Not sure?
I was also told the plug cannot have an extension cord attached to a larger appliance.
Comment about GFCI outlets and circuit breakers. I have installed several GFCI circuit breakers in outside standard "weather resistant" circuit breaker boxes. The GFCI circuit breakers are expensive, do cover all of the outlets and lights on that circuit. What I have found is that the GFCI circuit breakers can be sensitive to the weather conditions outside of the structure that they are placed in. Replacing the GFCI circuit breaker with a GFCI outlet in the first position after the breaker will provide the same outlet protection while still being sheltered from the elements.
I second that, I never install GFCI in an Outdoor Location. Much better to install them near the Breaker Panel. Also walking to the Breaker Panel, gives you time to think off, what you did wrong. BTW WR on the Receptacle Stands for Water Resistant. Always PO’s me when they are installed upside down, so the “WR,” is upside down.
It's what I never understood about some of GFCI outlet installations I've seen where the only one is at the end of a chain in the bathroom or kitchen or having to have a GFCI outlet at every outlet in said area when they are on the same circuit.
It’s totally true humidity and even temperature swings seem to trigger GFCI. Bathrooms are less affected because the outlet is in the wall and humidity/temp swings are short term. Outdoors, and humidity in an outlet can freeze and thaw, displacing the moisture further, causing a false trigger. Of course whether one considered it a false trigger is hotly debated.
Many outdoor devices, for example a Radon fan I recently installed, specifically state not to wire to a GFCI circuit. That seems counter intuitive until you realize it’s service reliability will be greatly reduced throughout the year especially in cold winter months where ice will melt and displace moisture inside the motor housing causing a differential in hot/neutral voltage through resistance from the moisture. Naturally, you can’t install a radon fan or many fans/motors in general of AFCI or CFCI circuits because the brushes in the motor generate the high frequency noise detected by arc fault integrated circuits, causing a false trigger. I believe brushless motors will become more standard over time as integration into arc fault circuits is required by various codes but as it stands now at lease in Chicago where I live many devices can be excluded from arc fault circuits in new construction such as high frequency lighting, motors, pumps, etc.
It's likely that they were only required in the specific locations at the time of installation and early GFIs may not have had the passthrough feature of new ones.
The only time it makes sense to have a GFCI outdoors is when it's either in a shed a long distance from the supporting house or commercial building, OR when required by code in a temporary service for a construction site... and then consider it disposable, even when in a "weatherproof" enclosure.
A practice I find useful is to have a GFCI inside on a box near a door with an outside weather cover receptacle opposite it. Sometimes that's useful if adding an outdoor receptacle, or when daisy chains to a single breaker or first receptacle after a breaker isn't practical, or as easy to reset.
I like the AFCIs because I can trip the breakers in my neighbors house via radio.
You’re evil! 🤣🤣🤣
(I’d do the same thing!)
Your point about them being required in new boxes put me at ease about why it was so hard to find a combo AFCI/GFCI receptacle today.
Sounds like new house doesn't need AFCI because it's already present at the breaker, old house doesn't "need" it because it's not needed for code. The only people still shopping for them are overly cautious DIYers and special projects.
But I needed a GFCI for the wet areas, and decided to splurge for one for a dedicated microwave line. I'll be happy to have spent the extra $9 total to reduce my fire risk by at least that much.
Luckily, while they didn't really upgrade my breaker, they did re-run most of the Romex. So at least I'm not looking at fabric in this 100 year old house.
Your insurance company may suddenly decide you need them whether they are code or not.
The most clear and accurate explanation of GFCI & AFCI. Keep the good work!
Thank you!
Removed the town mandated AFCI breaker on our refrigerator after two nuisance trips.
Lost hundreds of $$$ in food as we were out of town in both events.
AFCI breakers were mandated after a kitchen remodel. We had NO electrical problems for 23 years before the remodel.
Also removed the AFCI breaker for the 110 volt line that powers the igniters for the gas burners on our stove for the nuisance tripping issue. The oven would loose its flame w/o warning.
CGI can be as bad...this guy is selling FEAR OF ELECTROCUTION...
Yeah screw that. What a pain in the ass.
It is code that dedicated motor loads like your refrigerator and your garbage disposal. Do not have to be GFI. It’s somewhere in section 250 and if you note it is the largest section in the NEC.
Gas stove igniters have been the cause of losing 2 speed control boards from stove hood fans on 1 of my jobs. Now, i run the gas stove on it's own circuit.
@@stephenrocks7004 So the local government doesn't know or understand the code, then. Not surprised.
When we took over the 30 year old house we live in ,I was amazed by how it passed code,15amp Gfci on a 20amp breaker,non functional, and the other in my garage as well as not functional 2 story house 1989 build.Just recently changed my last fixture in the hall closet,and no suprise ground wasn't connected plastered in place lol.Eventually we will have whole house rewired and replumbed.Good explanation video.
Hey, PJV.... No, I'm sure it was NOT to code; that's why you always want a home inspection before closing.
@@CharlesMartel676 ya i think the in-laws were just trusting that the City Inspector did there job,I was flabbergasted to say the least when we first walked into the house.But frame to finish in 30days is Sketchy back then it was only 3 inspections if I remember correctly 1989-90 when my house was built and finished.Hell even my tile roof is dropping tiles like dollars on a stage.
15 amp gfis are rated at 20 amp feed thru...look at any new gfi in a store....its fine
also if 2 or more plugs in a circuit can use 15 amp plugs on a 20 amp as per the nec
and if you hook the power to the load side of a gfi it wont trip...old landlords trick...
I discovered that spider nests inside my outdoor receptacles caused my panel GCFI to trip. Replaced the cheap receptacles with commercial grade and haven't had a problem since.
Where do u get cheap electrical products? I needs to know!!!
harbor freight
Most clearly written and spoken explanation that I have seen on TH-cam. I have subscribed because I am hoping that all videos on this TH-cam channel are narrated with carefully composed and edited language
Thank you for this. I think I'm going to use this video to demonstrate the purposes of these devices. I'm currently working on a retrofit where I plan to replace a lot of receptacles with dual-function units, and replacing some light switches with these newly invented AFCI light switches. Extremely handy for old homes!
My new house has AFCI breakers with GFCI receptacles in garage , kitchen and bathrooms. The electrician we hired to hook us to the grid told us that's a costly breakers box but worth it.
30 plus years working as a plant operator at a power plant you get to know breakers well.
By the way well done video.
I bet you do! Thanks for the comment!
Great tutorial. Concise yet easy to understand by non-pros. Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
All these descriptions are all well and good but you missed the most important part!
The National Electrical Code (NEC) and the National Fire Prevention Association (NFPA) have made GFCI and AFCI MANDITORY FOR ALL CIRCUITS!
I recently changed out the entire electrical system in my house. Much of it was aluminum wire with cloth covering into ungrounded metal boxes without retaining clamps!
I had to replace everything from the meter to the last outlet box!
The fire inspector showed me in the code book the distances apart, the power limitations, and the protection required.
Needless to say, the job QUADRUPLED in cost!
I don't know how code works where you live, but were I live old circuits are grandfathered, and you do not need to redo them to modern code, if you do not touch them.
Yeah. They've gotten more stringent. I don't do residential, so thanks for the reminder.
Don't get a permit, don¡t let any “official” in your house, I threw two union gas guys out of my house when one started inspecting when they were just in the house to make sure everything was good when they turned the gas back on after the main were worked on outside, i've never let them back in again
Great video. Consider an appendix. Extension cords are the most common source of arcing fires since they are run under rugs and forgotten.
Yes, indeed. Furniture legs, especially metal legs, can cause the wires in an extension cord to short. That's a parallel arc or over-current condition.
I had to install some AFCIs in a new shop building to pass inspection. After the inspection I switched them to GFCIs so I could use tools like a drill or saw that created sparks internally and tripped the AFCI. A 120v drill is liable to be plugged in anywhere in your house, so I'm not a fan.
That’s a great idea until something happens and the fire inspector finds you changed them and then your home insurance is voided by your home insurance company.
AFCI's don't like older vacuum cleaners
@@patrickmorris9710 so get a new vacuum, AFCI’s we’re invented because of electrical fires, not to be annoying.
@@DaveS987sounds like an unintentional side affect is that they are annoying.
@@DaveS987 New vacuum cleaners also trip them. So do fans, hair dryers, some wall warts, and half rectified led lighting.
If you put GFI breakers in your breaker boxes be sure and label them both prominently and indelibly. Joe Weekend might be asking for a shock when he replaces them with just-as-good breakers, but his kids probably deserve our best efforts to protect them
I recently ran a new circuit in my garage because one just didn't exist. The breaker I installed is a combo CAFCI/GFCI because overbuilt is better than underbuilt.
I'm very sensitive to fire prevention. My close family came home one weekend night, and found the apartment building they lived in on fire. No one was hurt, but the apartment and all its contents were gone. Same for several other apartment. Fire dept was on scene and fire was already under control when they came home.
Investigation concluded that fire was due to old/faulty wiring. Building had good insurance.
The trauma of such a destruction and upheaval struck me hard.
Been very thoughtful about fire prevention and fire suppression since. Photoelectric smoke detectors, fire extinguishers, turning off breakers when I leave the house etc etc.
Thanks for the info!
Wow, thanks for sharing your story. Glad no one was hurt.
Sounds like a terrible thing to happen.
That said, how do you feel about "protection" devices that are so unreliable, they induce people to ignore the very problems they are supposed to protect against, or to just get rid of the devices altogether?
Because that's what AFCI breakers are right now. They are like a smoke detector that goes off at the drop of a hat, whether there's a fire or not.
Another type of arc occurs when the blades on a plug aren’t in tight enough contact with the contacts in the wall receptacle.
GFCI and AFCIs outlets only protect down stream. So if you are looking for in wall protection then best to invest in the breakers.
They're way more reliable, too.
You use BX cable to feed the first receptacle dummy.
Keep in mind that with 128.45 million households in the USA (2020 Census) 35,000 fires means that there is a .027% chance of having a fire. Of which something like half (17,500) may be prevented with AFCI/CFCI protection, about .013% chance of having an AFCI/CFCI preventable fire. This could be broken down further to work out your particular risk. Which is not to say this is not a good idea for protection. I thought your video was good and clear and thanks for making it but I did feel that the number of households is relevant. Thanks for the video.
With the these new code requirements the cost of building just got more expensive.
I noticed that you showed a hospital grade receptacle. I usually purchase those. Worth the extra money.
My sister has combo GFCI/AFCI breakers in her 2017 Atlanta house. One kept false-tripping. Moved its position in the breaker box and the problem followed the breaker. Others in the subdivision had the same problem and clued her in to the generic problem. We called the manufacturer (forgot) and they mailed 10 new breakers free, as a stealth recall. Hope the new design works better. My house has older Zinsco breakers with no GFCI option so I have those as outlets some places (kitchen, bath, outside).
EXCELLENT! This was best most informative elec. Video I've seen on you tube. Way to go. Most show how to do, this video shows why.
Outstanding 👍👍👍
Thanks for the nuggets of difference on using the “combination” in lieu of basic AFCI for more robust arc protection. I was trying to figure it why I’d spend more money on what appeared to both be dual function GFCI/AFCI. Now I know if it doesn’t have C/AFCI you’re missing out on that additional point of protection in the circuit algorithm.
Glad it helped! Yeah I really don't see the point in going with AFCI when it doesn't cover everything.
I had an arcing issue with an outlet in my basement. The hot wire was found to be loose and had carboned up over the years. If it was not for my dog alerting me, (He kept staring and sniffing the outlet) I probably would have had a fire for sure. I could see the glow when I took the outlet cover off! So I would say an AFTI would have worked there. BTW, that dog got a nice juicy steak for his meal.
George B
Good boy.
Dogs are great. Try getting that out of a cat. The cat would watch you burn up in a fire, and then start eating you when he got hungry enough lol
I have AFCI in my trailer, and want to share an experience with regard to nuisance trips. I learned that a battery charger, not connected to load has some sort of issue because when i plugged in, the AFCI tripped. A regular outlet on a circuit breaker does not, nor does a GFCI. I have two of these chargers, the second does not trip the AFCI. Leading me to think that a problem in the first one is likely the cause, so I disposed of it to be safe. Thanks for this video.
I installed AFCI breakers on all my old (1955) circuits. However, I had to remove one and go back to the original breaker on the furnace motor circuit. Too many nuisance trips.
There is an issue with GFCI breakers. I have one circuit that supplies an outdoor outlet. When the contractor remodeled the master bathroom, he tied it into that circuit. Now, if the outdoor outlet trips, it affects the bathroom outlet too.
This is a very good video for new homes or a rehab. It's code the more protection the better less of a fire. You might spend a little more or more than you expect, but it worth it . If you work at home it's worth having up dated electrical.
Good info. From the consumer side, it is good to know what could cause "trips". I had a 20amp circuit installed and run to my outdoor shed. There's a 20AMP GFCI that serves the building. I recently started using a 12k BTU which keeps tripping the plug. It pulls 7-10amps when running at it's max cooling. I've never seen it go over 1000 watts (I have a monitor on the plug/line). I've read where you shouldn't plug a portable A/C into a GFCi circuit. I'm installing a new box with one plug (w/o GFCI) just for the A/C since it's got it's own built in GFCI, and use the other outlet (GFCI) for the rest of the shed (lights, battery chargers etc). The line feeding this is on a 20amp breaker at my MAIN power box FWIW. This has been running me crazy but your video gives me some insight. Regards
Aside from cost an issue particularly with GFCI & AFCI circuit breakers is the amount of extra space they take up in a panel. One of these typically takes up the space of 2 normal breakers. The receptacles also take up much more space in a box which can be a problem when there are multiple wire connectors for branch circuits in there.
I've installed several circuit breakers to keep up with code requirements. Also have a couple GFCI receptacles. No problems with the GFCI breaker but had an AFCI breaker fail. Can't confirm why but I don't think it was due to circuit overload & suspect the breaker itself was faulty, nearly caused a fire. I smelled burning, went to investigate & found the breaker scorched at the neutral connection. I disconnected the other AFCI breaker & hooked the circuits back up with standard breakers. No longer trust AFCI circuit breakers after that episode.
In what make of main service panel do afci breakers take up two spaces?
Not all of them take up extra space. Siemens with plug on neutral are same exact size.
@@caseylascallette7269 I have a Siemens panel & both GFCI & AFCI breakers take up double the space I can fit a normal 15 amp breaker.
@@andrewshedron425 See my reply to Casey Lascallette. Perhaps slimmer versions are available now but not when I was looking.
Are you using tandems?
As a house re-modeler i use just GFCIs, also haven't heard of AFCIs before this viewing. 😁
Two years after your post I'd like to note that here in Honolulu, some insurers are mandating the update, or they will cancel insurance. So if you need to replace anything now, just get the update and not the old style. (And yeah - expensive...)
Hi I invented the AFCI. I think your video is a good introduction for the general public. There are several things that are misunderstood, such as, a AFCI also has an embedded GFCI circuit. The GFCI trip detection is 100 to 300 milliamps of leakage current in an AFCI breaker; while a GFCI for electrical shock protection trips at 6 to 8 milliamps. This is confusing when trying to isolate the tripping issue; as most electricians are unaware that leakage currents can trip the AFCI.
I am George Auther Spencer, 81 years old. I was issued my first AFCI patent in Aug 1990. I now live near Athens Texas and have invented a new wind turbine, three patents issued, that can produce 5X the power per acre of any wind turbine today; this includes GE's 12 MW turbine... As crazy as this sounds; it can also out produce a nuclear power plant per acre in 45 mph wind speeds, with no upper wind speed cutoff... even in 100 mph winds.
I now need to raise between $10M and $30M to complete the final phase and install a fully functional unit.
Then you're the guy to answer a question I have. Have a couple of beefy extension cords outside (used for tools, Christmas lights, and more) and recently I plugged it in and about 20 seconds later a loud noise, sparks and white smoke, and a fire...put it out with an extinguisher. Looks like a rat chewed a small section of insulation. It is one of the old standard breakers. So my question - would an AFCI breaker have prevented the fire? Thanks!
You have one of the best videos I have seen so far... no distracting music and jokes... so eloquent, structured, informative and detailed. And you left that annoying cliche like subscribe and comment nonsense for the end (take it out all together!! everyone says it.. if your channel is awesome people will do it without you telling them to) Keep this kind of content up and you'll b on your way to a million subscribers
Very nice comment. Cheers.
As an engineer, I found this video really good on one point many miss, and poor on others.
I was waiting to hear it claim a GFCI senses current to ground, and impressed that it spelled out difference between hot and neutral, while avoiding that common error. That of course is what enables a GFCI to be useful with 2 wire appliances common in kitchens and baths. How it does that could be compared to an Amprobe type meter, and why it reads near zero if looped over a power cord, versus a single conductor. Anyone familiar with CMRR in microphone and similar cables, or differential amplifiers in instrumentation, plus with basic physics of current and magnetism, could of course picture a deeper level of detail. Also think UTP and STP in telecom and data networking cables.
AFCI's may detect some of the described faults, but their Code legislative justification is most certainly NOT for the basic building safety violations this video suggests. The solution to that is blacklilst the incompetent jerks pretending to be those electricians. Bedroom locations for AFCI's assume they're locations where old dried out and tiny SPT wire to lamps or small appliances with failure modes from broken insulation at pinch and bend points starts fires, as well as use of undersize extension cords, or crap receptacles (eg, Chinese outlet strips rated 15 amps with heaters, that catch fire as they age just slightly).
Those cables may arc when failing, without a ground fault, and with far less current than a normal breaker trip. By comparison, 14 or 12 AWG permanent wiring rarely has those same faults, and is more of an issue in a kitchen or laundry feed.
As to how or what AFCI's detect, "noise patterns" is a fairly decent answer, but absent going into electrical engineering details, it's sort of hard to give an accurate as well as simple answer.
FCC does not itself certify Part 15 low power unintentional radiator conformance, but contrary to a couple of mentions in this video, that has nothing to do with the fire hazards AFCI's are meant to prevent. (Junk knockoff products illegally imported via ScAmazon may have other unrelated quality of manufacture defects, which are in fact relevant to AFCI detect parameters. ScAmazon blacklists customers who post factually accurate reviews critical of spec and legal frauds of those types, by it or its vendors. Its coerced distribution from their warehouses and logistics services place them in the position of physical commerce in such items it then pretends are only third party crooks, as if eBay shippers in China; if only Customs, the FBI, FTC, and FCC, did a serious investigation, it'd require shutting down all ScAmazon warehouses for a few years of detailed review of many items.)
Thanks for your feedback! One quick point is that AFCI's are required pretty much everywhere in a home now, bedrooms were the initial requirement 25 years ago. Most likely to phase in the requirement over time. Doesn't make much sense to only have them in a specific area of a home otherwise since you can have damaged in-wall wiring, loose connections, or bad devices in any part of a home.
@@TopHomeowner If we think about where lamps or small appliances with such potential failures are used, that's also "anywhere", even if bedrooms were the original focus.
There are also the false trip issues largely from brush motors, and adverse response to AFCI's when fans, vacuums, small tools, kitchen mixers, fans, etc, may have conflicts. The intervening time may have assumed people would adapt, designs to lessen those conflicts mature, and costs go down or be more expected than when initially introduced.
There are places where false trips are more serious, like the freezer in my garage not far from a double laundry tub utility sink, where risks from a false trip are more serious than ground faults or arc faults.
In some regions, AFCI's may help with yet another failure cause... Not bad wiring from electricians, but rodents love to eat certain plastics, or burrow in attic insulation. In those cases, only breaker versions and not point of use device receptacles, can help.
Good video. Risk management is something we, as modern humans, haven't really needed to do on such a vast and large scale for a long time. I'm happy to see more awareness of the need to be "aware" of the risks we face in our modern world. However I think we need to use caution when approaching the concept of "make the world 100% safe for everyone." Life has risk and is the cost benefit ratio for said risk(s) worthwhile? I don't know but it's worth discussing.
you really think people came here to read you babbling about stuff you have such little knowledge in but feel compelled to toss out a ton of cliches to appear smart?
@@slowery43 😆
Can't thin out the non hackers if we've got these damn safety devices around...
If/when home insurers demand changing out receptacles for pre-80's homes (that do not have grounds ( I know this because they are in my house and i only know this because i have to replace one or more as i speak - the reason i must learn this), we might as well learn about it as DYI 'ERS.
The arc fault of both kinds are pretty much Nanny junk . What needs to happen is just a device to test the circuit upon installation ... which would be nice if it could tell you how far down the line the arc is happening.
Then fix it ,,, but for regular use , just use your regular over amperage breakers.
GFCI's are of course good things though.
I guess also if doing anything involving penetrating the wall with nails & screws. Would then be a good time to test the circuit for arc faults. Knowing your circuits , and where the wires might be running is a good thing for any DIYer . But this set it and forget it type of safety , is pretty ridiculous IMHO .
It's always a pleasure to watch your videos. Your presentations are well-organized, informative, clear and thorough, so I always take away a bit beyond what I came for.
Thank you for your comment!
Note: HUD in our state wants rentals to have all circuits protected and remember, you can only have one circuit per fault breaker
In my new home, I replaced the basement GFI breakers with old school breakers. Got tired of random breaker trips. The electrician said he sees this a lot in new homes. Nothing "wrong", just is what it is.
In 2020 we got a new to us home. We had the service upgraded to AFCI breakers. Within six months a tree in the yard was hit by lightning. That caused every breaker to trip. We had zero damage because of this. I would never go back to standard breakers again. It saved everything electrical in the home and we only had to get the tree removed.
You should get a whole house surge protector
Why was your tree wired to your breaker box? 😄😉
Thanks for the very clear and concise tutorial and very many thanks for your generous sharing of your professional knowledge.
I am an engineer and I live in Brazil. Here GFCI's do exist for a long time, but they were not mandatory. Only recently they became mandatory by law enforcement. Nonetheless, it is still quite rare to see them even in new houses or buildings. People in general do not understand why GFCI's are necessary, people tend to think they are superfluous things, expensive and not necessary. And here they are not built in the power outlets. They are always of the 'circuit breaker' type. Here NEMA style breakers were mainly used in the past, new installations are moving towards DIN style rail mounted breakers.
That’s interesting you guys use DIN rail mounted breakers. I’ve only seen that in industrial control panels and commercial buildings but never seen it in houses. I like learning how countries differ in their electrical installations. Have a good one, cheers!
@@koryabel6319DIN rail mounted 89mm breakers are standard everywhere outside North America.
Fuse replacement circuit breakers are another user installable option (and they are also available for automotive type fuses too).
@@koryabel6319DIN breakers are basically the standard un europe with GFCI protection for all rooms (amd probably for a good reason, it's 240V circuits after all)
Thanks for the information. I don't understand why these things are not installed as standard requirements in the houses when they are being built. I really don't understand.
AFCI’s are a relatively recent development
Hello, thank you for the informative video. I have a quick question: Given that many garage fires in Canada are caused by car block heater malfunctions, would it be more effective to use a GFCI or AFCI outlet for a block heater? Additionally, can an AFCI outlet be installed outside the garage, provided it is placed in a weather-protected enclosure? Thank you.
With all of the very good electronic stud/electric detectors now available for fairly cheap - really the huge problems with the AFCI are avoidable. AFCI's do not work that well - they go off routinely from normal motor arcing; from various fully correctly functioning appliances or tools. The vast majority of Fires caused from 'arcing' is from small brads or nails etc. used to hang pictures or some such up on a wall. Where the person putting the item up on the wall - inadvertently slightly compromises the electrical romex behind the wall with just a very small 'prick' of metal - which is just very slightly arcing sometimes. And eventually heats up enough and drys up enough - that it starts a fire.
I'll note also that modern code requires in-wall cabling to be installed in a way that pretty much minimizes or eliminates any chance of damaging the cable that way. In studs, where one is going to be screwing long screws through, plates are used over the cable penetrations, and elsewhere the cable isn't right up against the drywall, and is likely to just flex out of the way if someone is so careless as to continue drilling long after they're all the way through the drywall.
Besides the fact that arcing may not even start happening right away, so by the time the breaker trips, who knows if anyone will remember why it might have started or know where to look for the problem that's hidden in the wall.
The first intent of arc fault interupters I was taught was for low leaks mainly from electronic equipment that regular breakers couldn't detect and GFI wouldn't detect, thus guarding against heat buildup in those devices and their risk of catching fire.
Once got in an argument with an electrician who came to do an estimate at my mothers house.
He kept interrupting and correcting me whenever I said GFCI.
"you mean GFI, ground fault interrupt".
I let it go.
But after he left my mom and I turned to each other.
"yeah, he's not getting the job".
I've been building electronics since I was 10 years old.
My favorite place to hang out when I was a kid was Radio Shack, back when it was more than batteries and cell phones.
My mom was confident I knew what I was talking about, and this electrician was possibly not so great.
Besides, nobody wants to work with a rude contractor.
We found a better guy through a neighbor who runs a construction business.
"... but GFCI is a more common term"
“GFI” was the original common term for them
@@rossr6616gfci is what all the manufacturers write on their products where I live.
i say tomato
I’m a resi guy looking for better ways to explain to people how GFCIs work. I always use the same example of the hairdryer in the bathroom. Anyway, great explaination mate!
Thanks for the excellent video. I was hoping that you would spend a little more time on 'nuisance trips'. Major appliances like microwaves and refrigerators can have higher current draw at startup and cause the AFCI receptacles to nuisance-trip - or so I have been told. I have been bothered by nuisance trips in my microwave circuit, and have been meaning to get around to taking out that receptacle and replacing it with a standard one. BTW, I was told by the building inspector to do this if it became a nuisance. Since the microwave is on a dedicated circuit and the microwave's chassis is grounded, I don't see any risk in doing so. Comments?
These things are electronically controlled & age does not help. Replace it with a newer GFCI and you'll probably be set.
@@dryan8377 Thanks for the comment, Dylan. Very true - they can get worn out from age, or from too many trips (I suppose).
A dedicated circuit and grounded chassis don't have any relevance to arc faults, the events AFCI are intended to address.
That said, I had a house built, moved in a few years ago, and the AFCI breakers were all kinds of trouble. We eventually got things settled down, mainly by putting in newer versions of the same breakers. Apparently the manufacturer does work to update them to have less nuisance tripping. But even so, while it's a lot better now, they still trip for no good reason once in a while (the vacuum cleaner being the main culprit at this point).
The breaker manufacturers love to quote how many house fires might be avoided with AFCI breakers. But with all the false positives, people learn to not trust the breakers. And if the fault is inside a wall, it's not like a homeowner even has any sort of practical way to diagnose the problem. They're just going to assume that it's a nuisance trip, get annoyed it keeps happening, and put in a non-AFCI breaker, negating any benefit the AFCI breaker might have provided for all that expense.
This seems to me a great example of a road to hell being paved with good intentions (if one charitably really believes that the manufacturers are just out to save lives, and not just grab thousands of extra dollars per new home built).
@@dryan8377 Yeah a GFCI thats not faulty never has nuisance trips, its not the same with the AFCI, as it just looks for waveforms that look like sparking, so if an appliance generates those waveforms its gonna trip the AFCI.
Here in Germany the GFCI is mandatory for all new electrical installations for the whole house.
I have installed them to protect my whole house, and I think everyone should at least have them (Although the voltage in the US is only half as high).
But we have different panels than you guys do, so we can install one GFCI (with no breaker inside) for multiple breakers, so the cost really isnt that high over here.
I havent given much thought about AFCIs, but it might be a good decision to get them as well, although they can cause problems with the nuisance tripping and they are more expensive than GFCIs over here.
If you are operating with 240 volts with ring circuits. The amperage never reaches the threshold to need protection for series circuits. Parallel arcing would still be needed but I haven’t heard of those in EUROPEAN countries.
@@matthewfournier6478 only really an issue with ring circuits in the UK. Not sure if Ireland use them too but rest if Europe use 16amp radials mainly
@@matthewfournier6478 It is the voltage that causes arcing.
Great job, so, my AFCI breaker is tripping on a brand new install of a Trane Heat Pump in new construction. When approaching the contractor, how do I address this if they want to just replace the breaker with a non-AFCI?
As I understand it - you get to WAIT until the project is done. And then get the contractor to come back or you do it yourself - but replace it with just a GFCI. Course you could go 'standard' - but I love GFCI's and the safety they give and their reliability. AFCI's are a mandated problem; which your contractor cannot legally substitute. They are a good idea - but it seems they are also impossible to make so that you don't have them tripping from totally correctly functioning appliances.
Let's him,this is more about nec,and nfca engine er
I had a GFCI outlet that would trip when I had a space heater on it and too much connected to the same circuit it was on but not on gfci's. The breaker would never flip just the GFCI outlet would flip. I suppose with the space heater pulling a good amount of power a long way and two other outlets pulling power a good distance must of eventually caused the load on the GFCI outlet to become unbalanced.
I know you can put a GFCI on the first receptacle in a circuit and that will protect the others down the line. Can you do the same with AFCIs?
Yes, these work the same way
Thanks for the info. Most electricians have no idea. I hope some CEU's are required for license renewal. Can you please explain 208 single phase in a residential application?
Maybe you could explain more why each breaker is required under current code? I first heard of AFCI breakers a few years ago when replacing my main panel. This house was built in 1978 and, at the time, panels didn't have a master breaker. 150A feeds were allowed for "Arkansas" homes (energy efficient) instead of the standard 250A for other homes and the combo worried me. I was required to install AFCI in bedroom circuits. I've heard 2 reasons. 1. Kids might plug something into an outlet. 2. Outlets that are used a lot will break sooner. In either case, you don't want a fire in a sleeping space.
Regulations always increase in every industry. Building codes are making it so expensive to build. Yes it is slightly safer but with increasing homelessness is it a net positive?
@@JD-yx7be True. But I'd add that it's not building codes that are driving the costs of housing. Material costs are WAY up and an entry level house is 50% bigger these days. Sub-1000 sqft was common thru the 80's for entry level. Lot costs are so high these days that an old house is a fraction of the total value of the property.
My house was built in 52 here in Arkansas and I have absolutely no idea how it made it from then until I bought it. It originally had a single 100 amp breaker and that's it. I now have a 300 amp service (convenient now that we have two electric cars) the actual wiring coming into the weather head was overkill and I have two of my own transformers separate from the rest of the neighborhood My shop has its own meter and separate billing because my shop has 277 volt light fixtures that look like they were pulled out of an old factory, and also came with welders , a drill press, and a few other large machines all labeled 208 volt (I honestly have no idea how it gets 208 but the 277 is its own completely independent circuit with a completely different weather head) I'm assuming all that equipment was also from some factory that went out of business.
Is there such a thing as a Dual-Function CAFCI/GFCI receptacle? And if not, can you install a CAFCI receptacle with a GFCI downstream and have the protection of both without using the dual-function breaker?
Ground fault is not good when you are the conductor. So yes a hospital visit should also be scheduled.
The interrupter that triggers on the slope of the current is there to protect the circuits plugged into it.
Years ago, AC-DC motors with brushes and commutators were commonplace and you could frequently see them arcing. I wonder how those AFCIs would handle that situation.
They DON'T not very well! Manufacturers have submitted 'maps' of the arcing from motors - which are somehow programmed into the AFCI - but that doesn't work very well. They go off all the time when using a vacuum or a treadmill or a drill... They've become required in various places of the home - and than after approval and someone living there - they sometimes get removed - because tools or just doing regular household work or functions - set them off.
That's over-engineered crap, it trips on vacuum motors or even just very slowly closing a light switch, just having the ground wire and a GFCI outlet I consider to be perfectly safe.
All my brushed tools that draw over 10 Amps steady state trip 20A arc fault breakers...
I have some rent houses with ungrounded circuits and was wondering if installing the combination breakers would be an adequate solution.
As a matter of fact, you're right. No grounds is in violation of current NEC codes, but an allowed exception is GFI protection on said circuits.
No. Don't cheap out on the safety of your tenants. Have the homes rewired.
Would it make sense to just replace all of the breakers in the panel with AFCI rather than replacing all the receptacles in the house (except to have GFCI in wet areas)?
I think it comes down to cost at that point. And also if you're doing the work yourself
Another poster commented that the AFCI breakers are physically larger than non-AFCI breakers. Your panel might not have enough space.
You also have the very real problem - that after you replace them all - and spend the cash - you WILL shortly be going back to the original breakers or putting in GFCI breakers which work just fine and protect from a much more common hazard - which can occur in ANY area. AFCI's are plagued with nuisance tripping.
The recepticals with push to connect can cause arc faults. I have seen three trailers and two houses where push to connects caused fires.
Yeah use the screw terminals and the problem goes away.
Should be outlawed
Good video, except I think that nuisance trips should have been discussed a lot more. I had to replace several GFCI outlets with regular outlets because ceiling fans would cause trips. Also, outdoor irrigation wiring is exposed to dampness. It tripped off my irrigation and I lost a lot of plants.
Great point! I'll plan on doing a follow-up video specifically on nuisance tripping.
RCD or RCCB would work way better you just need one for a whole 40amp running house thats like 30kw installed power thats for 240V one phase or three phase but there are RCCBs for 110V too so you shouldnt have a prob finding them .
I learned not to put GFCI sockets on refrigerators or freezers. The last thing you want is the fridge or freezer to shut off - particularly when you might not know it happened. (Refrigerators should, of course, be on separate circuits.)
@@shadowwalker4633 The UK has a similar devices. More often the whole circuit is protected, usually with an RCD (residual current detector/device) and that's roughly the same as a GFCI. You can get individually protected sockets too. The trip current is different between the US and UK standards, but then again, the danger of a 240V shock is a whole lot worse than at 110.
Differences and life-saving benefits made very easy to understand. Thank you.
Excellent info & presentation. Not enough information is made available to the public to be able to make an informed decision so thank you for sharing and placing some light on this crucial subject, It is very much appreciated.
Thank you, and I'm glad you found it helpful!
If you protect a circuit with a breaker, are you required to put a GFCI sticker on all protected receptacle wall plates? Or, are there wall plates with GFCI emblazoned on them?
If you have circuits with a shared neutral (typically a three wire situation with a black, red and white wire on two single pole120v breakers or one double pole breaker), the labeling on a dual function breaker specifically warns that this may cause nusance tripping and to not use a DF in this situation.
I am currently remodeling a house that was built in 1951 that has two prong outlets without an equipment ground wire. I want to upgrade the outlets to three prong outlets and by code can either add a ground wire or add GFCI protection. Otherwise, I need to replace the two prong outlets with the same thing. The bottom line is that I can only use GFCI breakers on these circuits and these are currently more expensive than dual function breakers because of code changes that require their use in most locations. Perhaps the author is aware of a dual function receptacle that will work with shared neutrals.
I just got power back after losing it for 3 days due to hurricane berly. Problem is that my bedrooms and its lights don’t have power. I went to circuit breaker panel and tripped the 3 breakers, but to no avail. The three breakers show AFCI. Is it ok to replace those 3 breakers with regular breakers since the cost of AFCI breakers are 10x more at Home Depot. Thx.
Most trailer park fires are caused by heating up extension cords due to improper use - what would be better?
Having fuses in the male plugs like they have in the uk
Have a bathroom outlet 3 feet from sink and outlet is GFCI. House built 2012. Would a wall mounted heater require (or would it be highly advisable) AFCI on plug? Thank you.
It should be noted that the GFCI breaker predates the availability of GFCI receptacles by several years. My parents house has a GFCI breaker in the outdoor outlets and the powder room receptacles. The master and main bathroom has those transformer limited electric razor only outlets. Homes built just a few years later simply put a GFCI receptacle in the powder room and have the outdoor outlets in series with that GFCI receptacle.
Video was 6 months ago. I have a older house and had to have a new breaker box installed because I couldn’t get anymore breakers in the box. The electrician installed AFCI breakers because he stated that when they built the house and if they crossed wires in a plug or several plugs it would keep tripping the GFCI. Is that correct?? Since I’m not a electrician I would like to know. Thanks. 03-14-2023
Ground fault interrupters will also protect you from electronic devices that may have one of their "power" leads grounded to the chassis, either intentional or due to wiring issue. This was fairly common in the '70s though the '80s. If you are not grounded, you wouldn't know it existed. But if you are grounded, you will be the return path of the electricity. ACs, Heaters, Refrigerators, TVs, Toasters all were notorious for wiring the return to the chassis and did not have a true ground. If you ever where at grandma's house and touch the toaster or fridge and then touched the metal of the sink and got a mild shock, that was because you became part of the electrical circuit. If you were properly grounded it would go from a mild shock to a serious hazard.
So, do they make any Tandem CAFCI/GFCI breakers yet? Bonus if they are Siemens breakers and fit in an old Murray panel :p
Now a days, after storm my circuit barkers knocks off frequently almost all of them. Can you tell me why. Thank you in advance.
Pretty hard to get hot and neutral any closer together than touching side by side in an entire home run if you use 12-2-2 for powering two separate circuits.
Any thoughts on the Ting monitor? State Farm, who has my homeowner's policy, had me sent one. It claims to monitor the entire house for some sorts of faults just be being plugged into an outlet (and hooked to WiFI) (and you have the app on your phone). Whisker Labs makes them.
Our jurisdiction requires afci on most circuits plus gfci near water usages or when old wiring (non-grounded) is connected to.
I’m going to let you in on a little secret: they don’t come looking at your breaker box unless you give them reason to. Fortunately, in my jurisdiction, there is no building code enforcement, nor is there permitting, etc. I prefer freedom.
@lwheatcraft I don't know which is best? It's thoroughly enforced here... not to mention if something went tragic, the insurance corp would be using code violations as an out to skip out on the payday.
Will any of these help with a lightning strike or power surge?
Probably not. ACFIs and GCFIs protect against downstream faults and shorts. A lightning strike or power company surge is upstream event and I don't think will be detected by the acfi or gcfi.
If I'm wrong, convince me.
No... There is however whole home surge protectors that will...
No.
But that is where SPD's come in. Surge Protective Devices.
My brand new (2022) house has AFCI breakers. Out clothes drier trips it constantly. I disconnected the second ground wire in the back of the drier to prevent this but can I just replace the Arc Fault breaker with a normal GFCI breaker and reconnect that wire in the drier?
If not, what am I SUPPOSED to do to remain in code?
nice video on explaining the difference between the afci and gfci
Thank you!
If you're looking for both ground and arc-fault protection, could you install CAFCI breakers, and GFCI receptacles?
An arcing demonstration involving a little bathroom space heater being unplugged while running (in a dimly lit room), would give people a good real-world picture of how things arc. And what not to do.
Yes, it’s true that your scenario may produce an arc. So what? Any mechanic switch that opens with current flowing may cause arcing. Including: circuit breakers! The trick is how does the “switch”handle it? Citing your plug pulling scenario again apart from erosion of the plug blade and/or receptacle from arcing (and that would take many insertions/extractions) what else is the danger? I’m don’t have a problem with any regular current trip OR GFCI breakers but, AFCI breakers having nuisance trips because of normal equipment operation in a properly wired installation seems like an unnecessary burden.
Wow, this is exactly what I needed, thank you so much! Great presentation as well.
The fire study almost sounds like the one presented by the Plumbers Union calling for the inclusion of sprinklers in new construction.
They only add $8k to the price of a 1800 sq/ft house. (not including servicing)
If people stopped running extension cords under carpets, a large percentage of fires could be prevented. Some for factory built gang receptacle cords.
17 500 house fires per year, but what percentage of the total number of houses is that? Great video mate, thank you 🙏
Probabilities need a denominator! 😊
I think afci is just a bandaid for making shoddy electrical connections such as back stabbing plugs, ect. If electricians would take the time to pre twist wires and put them in a wire nut, pigtail and side wire receptacles, etc, I don’t think there would be many arc faults to begin with.
I had nuisance tripping of a breaker supplying power to normal outlets. Turns out the breaker had worn out (weak). Replaced and life is good again.
So I had my orginal panel updated. Doing this now my fridge always trips my gfci outlet. I thought it was cause my breaker amp was too small (15amp) so I replaced it with a 20amp breaker and it still is tripping the gfci outlet. What should I do?
I love the dual function but how well does it work connected to the AC side of a solar system?
This is GREAT info. Well done. But you said that there is a dual CAFCI and GFCI breakers available "if you have room in your breaker box" What did you mean? Did you mean that these dual breakers are physically larger, or did you mean if we just have more slots available in our box?
These breakers typically require two slots each so you need some spare slots to replace old breakers.
Do you know / can you address this subject as it pertains to Recrational Vehicles ( plugged into dedicated 50 amp residential service)? Thank you!
I suppose most aren't old enough to remember when window air conditioner units would burn houses down. The high current draw would cause arcing, leading to a fire. It happened quite a bit. I forget, was it 2002 when they added it to the NEC?
Q: Since current is reduced when you plug things into an outlet that produces a load, and you mentioned that GCFI operates by detecting even the tiniest difference between the neutral and the hot wires (which is where the load occurs), then how does it differentiate between a load an a fault? Also, I do think GCFI + CAFI dual function outlets should be standard everywhere in all new home construction. It just makes sense. What doesn't is the deliberately inflated price of these devices by manufacturers trying to profit off of consumer safety.
_"how does it differentiate between a load an a fault?"_ -- as long as there's no fault, the current is _exactly the same_ at either end of the circuit. Adding a load to a circuit doesn't "reduce the current". It's what _causes_ current to flow and you'll see the exact same amount of current no matter where in the circuit it's measured.
(Maybe you are confusing current with voltage; all else equal, a load will cause a voltage drop...but even there, modern electrical services usually can handle all but the largest loads without any significant voltage drop.)
It compares the live and neutral. A load does not cause imbalance. Also a load does not reduce current, it causes it. Without any load there is no current. Seems you have some fundamental misconception about electricity.
Think of a water pipe , same amount of water comes out as goes in. If that is not the case then there is a leak. Similarly s GFCI detects a leak in an electric circuit.