Hey John what a fantastic tool ,so fast .Thanks for helping me find something that I want for Christmas other than brass ,powder bullets and primers. Could you make a video on what the next step is ,ie trimming and pointing with the equipment you would recommend. You might have this video done already and I just haven’t seen it . Watched you and Eric on Thanksgiving live podcast .Sounds like you are getting rules for gun ownership like we have had forever in Canada and getting stupidly worse every week ! Thanks so much for all the great content
Is this something that isn't out yet? I don't see it on their site. What a time saver, thank you for sharing. I asked my question too early. Got my the answer towards the end.
That would be a much more useful tool if the base took interchangeable bushings and a platten so you could measure OAL and all the other bullet characteristics.
I came back to this video to find the link to the tool but was much happier reading all of the comments from people telling you you are wasting your time and need to sort BTO 😂 so many confident people that just simply don’t know enough to make the comments they type lol
Is it a good tool? Hell yeah. But that just make me more frustrating. Way too many tools or comparator for brass head space, bullet ogive, bullet OAL. John, since you have experience with so many tools in this area, could you please just do a comparison for those gauges to measure head space, bullet ogive etc? For example, SAC/Hornady comparator, Wilson gage comparator, redding instant indicator, PMA brass checker and soooooo many more.
Could this in the future maybe be adapted for multiple uses i.e case over all length, head space, trim length. A complete one stop shop for all bullet case and completed round measurements. It looks great!
Quick Question. If you trim and Point bullets, is sorting necessary? Am about to order all I need for trimming and pointing. Would you Point bullets in 6mm? Thx!
Does this mean you are not trimming the meplat prior to pointing? NM…. Saw you answer to another question. 😃 Really wish they would go to electronic ordering.
John, Erik Cortina did an interview with Brian Lutz and asked how he would sort bullets and the answer was by base to ogive. I just sorted a bunch of bullets by base to ogive. What I would like to know is what is the benefit of this type of sorting? I’m thinking maybe seating to match how much you want to seat from the lands in your rifle. I assume that a Reloader would have determined the “jam” for a particular bullet that is going to be used in his/her rifle. Am I missing something? Thanks
When using Berger bullets I personally haven't see any benefit to BTO sorting but that's just me. I am in no position to say that it does or doesn't work for Brian as he does his own testing. I only sort OAL because that's the best way for me to consistently trim and point. If I didn't trim and point I probably wouldn't sort at all (again using Berger). For other brands of bullets sorting one way or another might make more sense.
@@FClassJohn John, does Eric point also? It's hard keeping all this info in my head. Any chance you could add a paragraph or two stating what gear you are currently using? Once you have it, it would be easy to update as things change.
@@michaeldoyle5001 I believe he's trimming and pointing as well but I can't say 100%. I'm currently using a new tool from Accuracy One to trim that I'll be doing a video on soon and then using the pointing die. I think Erik uses the Giraud to trim and the Accuracy One to point.
So you go to all this trouble (sorting,triming,and pointing) to get the meplats all the same that is understood and makes since for consistant BC down range. But since you seat by ogive and you do not sort for this your seating depths can be off by as much as .004-.005" from what I have seen and that, are you stating that doesn't show up on target down range? @@FClassJohn
Funny how we do things differently i have a fast way of sorting i never do length i do it off the jam point and sort that way then point works well for me i find the length can vary and pointing fixes the end shape but not to point the projectile just a bump to round them all up the same so length of a grouped projectile not critical to me but shape and position of the jam point is .
I stopped a while ago in terms of actually sorting them BTO. All I care about is getting them sorted out so when I point they all end up with the same point and grouped together.
John Why not just trim all to a predetermined shortest length or say sort all within a .010” diff max limit into one box and trim to the shortest? You are also pointing…so surely the Bullet BC change would be very marginal?
Because you'll have some that are trimmed a lot and other less which can lead to big differences in the meplat surface area and ultimately what your point will look like. I've done, and yes it technically works but given the choice I'd rather have bullets that are all exactly the same for a given group.
@@FClassJohn 👍 I am new to trimming and pointing bullets and I must admit I am a bit confused about what to do when and what to measure to do an ideal trim and point? I have watched your videos and others but it seems that some measurements are done between the ogive area and tip while others are based on OAL? I have a hard time wrapping my head around why you measure OAL to know how to adjust the pointing die and then trim afterwards? Would you consider doing a video on the entre prosess?
I can see how useful this would be; I already sort my brass but not bullets. Sorry to ask a dumb question but “pointing die”? That’s a new one on me. I’m just getting into this kind of shooting, so I appreciate the education, thanks! P.S. Got it, how clever. I see Whidden makes one, and know their quality is excellent. Something I never knew existed until you mentioned it.
@@howardschwartz1462 BTO doesn't tell you anything you need to know when it comes to pointing. Pointing dies work off overall length, therefore you need to measure overall length.
@@FClassJohn do you think bullet tipping makes any difference at distances less than 600 yards? the same question for bullet sorting? thanks for helping a newbie.
John, I can't even find this on i Gauging site, did find the 1" with the lever but not in digital, I can mill the lower part so I jus have to find the indicator .
So which method of sorting bullets ensures the most accurate loads and most consistent BCs??? Sorting bullets based on bullet overall length or sorting bullets based on base to ogive?
I typically buy enough that I can keep them all in a lot but if I had to mix lots I would test old and new lots together and if it shoots good I'll go ahead and just sort them together.
What is your tolerance for bullet sorting. I guess what I’m saying is if I’m looking for 50 bullets and you have 40 of zero would you be adverse to adding +1 or minus one bullets to that group? What is your town and some bullet overall length thank you.
I group all of my bullets into boxes that have a variance of .001 inches. That way I can adjust all of my trimming or pointing dies accordingly, and it makes life really easy.
Nope. If I wasn’t doing anything to the bullets, or in cases where I shoot bullets straight out of the box I don’t find and real difference on target from sorting.
Totally different. The Holland was good and worked fine when I had one but it's a BTO device so totally different. I also found you had to take a little extra care to prevent causing any variation but overall it's a good device compared to others for BTO measurements.
@@FClassJohn Thank you for your response and like you channel. I looked the internet all for a newer style bullet comparator and did not find one. So I ordered the holland. Then a couple weeks later you did this review. Talk about timing.
Yes they've been shipping for over a month. I would give them a call as they seem to respond better to calls than email. I've had a lot of people I know call them and order one no problem.
@@tonydevich7937 I know they were swamped with call Friday when I released this and they sold out by the evening but they are taking backorders and last I heard they're expecting more in the middle of December.
To be honest, I wouldn’t even sort my Berger bullets if I wasn’t pointing them. But when, pointing, you get the best results when you make equal adjustments across the pointing die which is why I sort by .001”.
I'd prefer not to but if I get down to the last couple bins and the next lot measure in the same range I will. Keep in mind though my lots are using 2-5k in size.
Sadly I can’t get any of accuracy-one products as I live outside the USA been trying to find a hover pointing die and meplat trimmer along with their measuring tools 😢
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 84 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องศึก vs เมืองไทย"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3kuzsAIDf1c/mqdefault.jpg)
Great vid,now if Berger would just make about 30 million 180 7 mm hybrids
Hey John what a fantastic tool ,so fast .Thanks for helping me find something that I want for Christmas other than brass ,powder bullets and primers. Could you make a video on what the next step is ,ie trimming and pointing with the equipment you would recommend. You might have this video done already and I just haven’t seen it .
Watched you and Eric on Thanksgiving live podcast .Sounds like you are getting rules for gun ownership like we have had forever in Canada and getting stupidly worse every week ! Thanks so much for all the great content
Is this something that isn't out yet? I don't see it on their site. What a time saver, thank you for sharing. I asked my question too early. Got my the answer towards the end.
That would be a much more useful tool if the base took interchangeable bushings and a platten so you could measure OAL and all the other bullet characteristics.
I came back to this video to find the link to the tool but was much happier reading all of the comments from people telling you you are wasting your time and need to sort BTO 😂 so many confident people that just simply don’t know enough to make the comments they type lol
Is it a good tool? Hell yeah. But that just make me more frustrating. Way too many tools or comparator for brass head space, bullet ogive, bullet OAL. John, since you have experience with so many tools in this area, could you please just do a comparison for those gauges to measure head space, bullet ogive etc? For example, SAC/Hornady comparator, Wilson gage comparator, redding instant indicator, PMA brass checker and soooooo many more.
Could this in the future maybe be adapted for multiple uses i.e case over all length, head space, trim length. A complete one stop shop for all bullet case and completed round measurements. It looks great!
Quick Question. If you trim and Point bullets, is sorting necessary? Am about to order all I need for trimming and pointing. Would you Point bullets in 6mm?
Thx!
I bucked up & bought some Lapua brass this year. I was disappointed to see it did not come in those plastic boxes.
Yeah they started that late last year I think.
Does this mean you are not trimming the meplat prior to pointing? NM…. Saw you answer to another question. 😃 Really wish they would go to electronic ordering.
Why not just use a meplat trimmer and make them all the same?
John, Erik Cortina did an interview with Brian Lutz and asked how he would sort bullets and the answer was by base to ogive. I just sorted a bunch of bullets by base to ogive. What I would like to know is what is the benefit of this type of sorting? I’m thinking maybe seating to match how much you want to seat from the lands in your rifle. I assume that a Reloader would have determined the “jam” for a particular bullet that is going to be used in his/her rifle. Am I missing something? Thanks
When using Berger bullets I personally haven't see any benefit to BTO sorting but that's just me. I am in no position to say that it does or doesn't work for Brian as he does his own testing. I only sort OAL because that's the best way for me to consistently trim and point. If I didn't trim and point I probably wouldn't sort at all (again using Berger). For other brands of bullets sorting one way or another might make more sense.
@@FClassJohn John, does Eric point also? It's hard keeping all this info in my head. Any chance you could add a paragraph or two stating what gear you are currently using? Once you have it, it would be easy to update as things change.
@@michaeldoyle5001 I believe he's trimming and pointing as well but I can't say 100%. I'm currently using a new tool from Accuracy One to trim that I'll be doing a video on soon and then using the pointing die. I think Erik uses the Giraud to trim and the Accuracy One to point.
So you go to all this trouble (sorting,triming,and pointing) to get the meplats all the same that is understood and makes since for consistant BC down range. But since you seat by ogive and you do not sort for this your seating depths can be off by as much as .004-.005" from what I have seen and that, are you stating that doesn't show up on target down range? @@FClassJohn
Funny how we do things differently i have a fast way of sorting i never do length i do it off the jam point and sort that way then point works well for me i find the length can vary and pointing fixes the end shape but not to point the projectile just a bump to round them all up the same so length of a grouped projectile not critical to me but shape and position of the jam point is .
Life changing...If only Erik had one haha. Looks very efficient.
He does not even have a second ST😅
Trust me, Erik has plenty of toys I don't have too. 😜
@@FClassJohn eric has a fancy car too!
Awesome tool and I love the speed, but what happed to measuring bullets base to ogive?
I stopped a while ago in terms of actually sorting them BTO. All I care about is getting them sorted out so when I point they all end up with the same point and grouped together.
So what is next …bullet tipping? If so, do you try to get them all the same length or the same shape?
I don’t understand why you would use this if you would trim and tip. Shouldn’t measuring bullet base to ogive yield better consistency?
I think you would be better off measuring off the ogive instead of overall length!!!
John Why not just trim all to a predetermined shortest length or say sort all within a .010” diff max limit into one box and trim to the shortest? You are also pointing…so surely the Bullet BC change would be very marginal?
Because you'll have some that are trimmed a lot and other less which can lead to big differences in the meplat surface area and ultimately what your point will look like. I've done, and yes it technically works but given the choice I'd rather have bullets that are all exactly the same for a given group.
Whats the advantage of measuring the tip to the base over the base to the Ogive?
For trimming purposes OAL is all that matter so that you can adjust the pointing die equally across all the bullets.
@@FClassJohn Copy
@@FClassJohn did you trim the bullets before this measurement?
@@michaelbrogaard7083 no. I would trim after measuring the OAL so that I can trim consistently.
@@FClassJohn 👍 I am new to trimming and pointing bullets and I must admit I am a bit confused about what to do when and what to measure to do an ideal trim and point? I have watched your videos and others but it seems that some measurements are done between the ogive area and tip while others are based on OAL? I have a hard time wrapping my head around why you measure OAL to know how to adjust the pointing die and then trim afterwards? Would you consider doing a video on the entre prosess?
I can see how useful this would be; I already sort my brass but not bullets. Sorry to ask a dumb question but “pointing die”? That’s a new one on me. I’m just getting into this kind of shooting, so I appreciate the education, thanks!
P.S. Got it, how clever. I see Whidden makes one, and know their quality is excellent. Something I never knew existed until you mentioned it.
Accuracy One (the maker of this tool) makes the pointing die that I use but yes the Whidden is good too.
@@FClassJohn why is this better than sorting base to ogive
@@howardschwartz1462 BTO doesn't tell you anything you need to know when it comes to pointing. Pointing dies work off overall length, therefore you need to measure overall length.
@@FClassJohn thanks
@@FClassJohn do you think bullet tipping makes any difference at distances less than 600 yards? the same question for bullet sorting? thanks for helping a newbie.
Awesome tool I wish I needed that much accuracy, what are the blue boxes originally for?
They're Lapua brass boxes
John, I can't even find this on i Gauging site, did find the 1" with the lever but not in digital, I can mill the lower part so I jus have to find the indicator .
You have to call them right now until it gets added to the website. It’s brand new.
So which method of sorting bullets ensures the most accurate loads and most consistent BCs??? Sorting bullets based on bullet overall length or sorting bullets based on base to ogive?
overall length has the most weight towards consistent bc (per bryan litz)
Which do you prefer to sort bullets by: weight or length
Length.
Did you sand all the bullets before you started or just one
I just started with one sanded as a gauge. That's all
really nice tool, but can't find it on their website, is it official available yet ?
Yes but it's so new they haven't added it to their website. You have to call them.
If only it had a ogive adaptor at top so could measure base to ogive as the 180 hybrids are tipped rough. Whats your thoughts on this John?
Sorting BTO won’t help the tips. That’s why I sort OAL with this tool so I can point them all consistently.
@@FClassJohn I use tipped bullets (6.5 140gr ELD-Ms) since no open tips are allowed for me
would you recommend sorting OAL or BTO for these?
thank you
When you do this, do you keep different lots separate or does that not matter because of the sorting.
I typically buy enough that I can keep them all in a lot but if I had to mix lots I would test old and new lots together and if it shoots good I'll go ahead and just sort them together.
What is your tolerance for bullet sorting. I guess what I’m saying is if I’m looking for 50 bullets and you have 40 of zero would you be adverse to adding +1 or minus one bullets to that group? What is your town and some bullet overall length thank you.
Just to clarify, I’m looking for what your tolerances an overall length for grouping of bullets
I group all of my bullets into boxes that have a variance of .001 inches. That way I can adjust all of my trimming or pointing dies accordingly, and it makes life really easy.
@@FClassJohn I’m very sorry
Could you be a little more specific
@@howardschwartz1462 I sort by .001" so that I only have to turn my pointing die .001" at a time. It's a 1:1 relationship that way. Super easy.
@@FClassJohn if you start with the longest bullet, first, do you turn your pointy, die down or up for the next group?
If you not tipping/trimming bullets is worth sorting bergers by base to ogive?
Nope. If I wasn’t doing anything to the bullets, or in cases where I shoot bullets straight out of the box I don’t find and real difference on target from sorting.
@@FClassJohn at what distance do you find tipping/trimming worth while...600 and out or?
@@brentwinkelman1990 even at 600 for f class it doesn’t always show but I always do it for 1000
How does this compare to the holland bullet comparator?
Totally different. The Holland was good and worked fine when I had one but it's a BTO device so totally different. I also found you had to take a little extra care to prevent causing any variation but overall it's a good device compared to others for BTO measurements.
@@FClassJohn Thank you for your response and like you channel. I looked the internet all for a newer style bullet comparator and did not find one. So I ordered the holland. Then a couple weeks later you did this review. Talk about timing.
Do they actually produce this item yet? Sent two emails over the last month, no response?
Yes they've been shipping for over a month. I would give them a call as they seem to respond better to calls than email. I've had a lot of people I know call them and order one no problem.
Cool, we're do you get one of those
Like I said in the video, it's a brand new item and you have to call. It's not on their website yet.
@@FClassJohn ya I went on the site,ill call sometime soon
@@tonydevich7937 I know they were swamped with call Friday when I released this and they sold out by the evening but they are taking backorders and last I heard they're expecting more in the middle of December.
@@FClassJohn ill try then thanks
@fclassjohn, does it measure the tip/Meplat or just below the Meplat?
Thx!
Base to meplat
Sorry forgot to ask but is it caliber specific or for multiple calibers?
@@rload4374 It covers a really wide range of bullets. You can adjust the length as needed.
Great! II was more worried about the diameter of the bullet
Fast! How much?
$160 as of Nov 2022.
@@FClassJohn Thanks, John! A screaming deal compared to the time saved! 👍 /Dave
What data do you have that sorting base-to-meplat makes a difference on the target ?
(I recall Brian Litz saying it was better to sort base-to-ogive)
To be honest, I wouldn’t even sort my Berger bullets if I wasn’t pointing them. But when, pointing, you get the best results when you make equal adjustments across the pointing die which is why I sort by .001”.
Thanks for the reply
Will you put different lot numbers in the same bin?
I'd prefer not to but if I get down to the last couple bins and the next lot measure in the same range I will. Keep in mind though my lots are using 2-5k in size.
no sense sorting by lenght, rather better by ogive
Sadly I can’t get any of accuracy-one products as I live outside the USA been trying to find a hover pointing die and meplat trimmer along with their measuring tools 😢