I may be biased here but Oblivion is SO much better when it comes to the Dark Brotherhood quests, stories, characters and twists. Then again I love Oblivion more than life itself so🤷🏻♂️
So do I :3 I've started playing from Arena and love everything before Skyrim, which felt like a massive slap in the face to the fanbase. Just to jump on the viking bandwagon and dumb down every aspect of the game. Graphics means zilch zero nothing to me. I don't care how pretty a game is, it's all about the PLAYING. That's the point of games Bethesda! 🤦♀️ I need to stop thinking about it.
Can't even compare Oblivions DB to Skyrims DB, Everything about Oblivions DB was better and more fun to play. I pretty much feel the same way about all the guilds from oblivion vs skyrim guilds
Agreed, Skyrim may be loaded with fun things, enad even more when modded, but Oblivion, despite all of its short comings, was better than skyrim, dual wielding spells is fun and all but not isn't as good as oblivion spell system, then spell crafting, and the quests, even though the ai is a meme, was much better than skyrim
Oblivion also made the assassinations feel like they have impacted the world. The Black Horse Courier publish several newspaper articles reporting on the deaths of the assassination targets.
This is more than cruel. This is like openly sticking a knife into Skyrim, if there’s any one part of Oblivion that is famously superior to Skyrim that everyone knows, it’s the Dark Brotherhood quest line.
Anyone else noticed how Fudgemuppet only compare Oblivion to Skyrim with quests? Morrowind is better in terms of the rpg elements and lore, would have been great to see them compare some of the quests in Morrowind to Skyrim. So what if Oblivion is Michael and scotts first elder scrolls game, that does not make it automatically better.
@@thomasrosendahl2783 agreed but tbh the first elder scrolls game you play in my opinion is always going to be your favourite, hard to forget an experience like that. Doesn’t mean it’s the best game but will always deep down be your favourite. That aside, oblivion easily has the best faction quests in the elder scrolls series, particularly with the dark brotherhood and the thieves guild
@@thomasrosendahl2783 I dont recall them ever saying that Oblivion and Skyrim were the best. In fact I imagine Scott’s a big fan of Morrowind considering his absolute favourite race is in fact the Dunmer. This is just their comparison and views between Oblivion and Skyrim, which is a common debate considering those two are the latest mainline games.
What I love about the Oblivion DB questline is that if you take a closer look at the dead drops and compare them, not only does the handwriting change but the actual style of writing as well. Lucien Lachance has more bold writing. He gets straight to the point, only giving the most necessary information. The traitor, on the other hand, has a more cursive writing style. He goes out of his way to write about how your victims are supposedly evil people (though technically they are), and he constantly tries to JUSTIFY their murders. He also likes giving you compliments, even comparing you to a puppet at one point. Sadly you can't do much about it even if you notice, but I thought that was a pretty neat detail that most people don't notice because instead of reading the actual documents they get, they just read the TLDR of the quest box and then follow the marker.
Thanks for bringing that up!!! Will have to look for that next time I make another play through, gonna be some years tho lol already did one during 2020 covid
The parchment is also different. When Lucien sends dead drops it's a sealed letter. When Mathieu Bellemont does it he just puts the parchment on the dead drop
@All_lives_matter, reject fabricated racism by govt ✨ When you no longer live, society will advance 50 years since you won't be able to talk crap, and the young shall dance over your rotting bodie. ✨
@@RaminousPolacious Jesus Christ, you took that too far. All he said was zoomers don’t read and don’t have attention spans, and on average he isn’t wrong.
@@CuRSE-TM not exactly followed for her sanctum*. if there’s other brotherhoods out there, it is likely they follow the tenants rather than go off a power hungry craze like astrid
@@CuRSE-TM "To break the tenants is to invite the wrath of Sithis." That sanctum needed a good cleansing, and she certainly suffered for her transgressions.
@@makpak5057 the sanctuary in falkreath is the last dark brotherhood sanctuary in Tamriel so none of the others follow the tenants, because they dont exist.
Oblivion no contest. The quest writing in that game is far superior to most of Skyrim's quests, which I find are very hit and miss in terms of how interesting they are narratively.
For the dark brotherhood quest line I would definitely agree. For something like say the thieves guild eh not so much, I think skyrim's was much better.
@@fenixchief7 Oblivion's thieves guild was cool with having the beggars throughout the cities being your eyes and ears for good targets was nice, though at least Skyrim gave something like that with the markers placed on houses indicating what type of target for theft they could be. Ultimately Skyrim's combat just felt better so at times it was harder to go back to Oblivion swinging around a wooden sword hitting soft targets.
Idk man Skyrim it feels like your his don't comment where as in Oblivion you get the stagger more often without having to power attack & the n stamina system was more Incorporated imo@@getsueinaito
I'm really pissed you couldn't tell the members you had to do a purification before killing them. A lot of them asked why and thought you were attacking them out of spite. I liked those argonians.
I have to agree. The purification quest was probably the hardest thing for me to do in oblivion because I didn't want to kill them. Skyrims Dark Brotherhood is ok but Oblivions is definitely more memorable. I don't know if I liked that quest but it definitely added a huge shock value for me.
The one thing I always remember from that moment was that one guy (pretty sure he was a Khajiit) who hated you all the way through, so it’s like “well at least I get to kill that asshole” then when you get there he says “ahh maybe we should have a fresh start 😇” Such a cruel joke from the writers 😂
Replaying now and just finished the Purificiation. Kills me everytime. "Why, Sister? Why?" It makes sense with what happens after, but I hated doing it.
There's a really cool tell in the Oblivion quests that the deaddrops are being switched. Firstly, if you kept all the old parchments you can see that they are written on a different style parchments and handwriting, but the main giveaway is that all of the traitors contracts go into detail about why the target has been selected and what they have done . None of the legitimate ones do, because Lucien mentions it doesn't matter why they are supposed to be killed. In addition, if you search the house of the first Black Hand member you kill, you can find his robes locked in a cupboard.
Also for the Khajit and Dark Elf dead drop targets if you speak to them before killing them and choose the generic "Dark Brotherhood" esque lines rather than the generic threat or the silence options they will both clearly show surprise at being targeted by the Brotherhood, the Khajit even says something to the effect of "By Sithis what treachery is this" when I mentioned I was from the brotherhood. I immediately picked up on that my first play through and I knew something was up 😄 Really well done writing
Hahaha, I love Lucien too, but he did have it coming. Took me a few playthroughs to finally see it that way. Did you read that note the Draconis mother wrote to her kids? THAT’s what did it for me. Remember, that was still Lucien before the switch up 😩
I 'm surprised people thought that's a genuinely good intro to the DB. It comes off as so goofy and memeable. I knew people liked it but I thought it was entirely for comedy.
@@fran3ro Grelot is only killed with a back stab from behind and The Cabin in the Woods is completely inconsequential it doesn't matter which order you kill the people
@@MartinJHenebury Same can be said about interacting with Cicero and TItus. You will kill Titus, and either you kill or let Cicero live it's the same. Killing Grelod gives some satisfaction, and Astrid's presentation is great, including the fact that doesn't matter who you kill or if you kill all of them. You can even kill Astrid herself, wich isn't said in this video and make "the cabin in the woods" the only short time consecuence in the game apart for taking/saving Whiterun before capturing Odahviing.
I always loved how killing someone who hadn't done anything was what kick started the quest line it gave it a more mysterious quality to it much more so than overhearing a convo about an orphan looking for the dark brotherhood
And it really helps characterize the brotherhood. They are filled with people who killed for fun or for reasons other than coin. That and the Brotherhood gets this additional mystical note in that they were able to know you killed an innocent person with no one around. How much do they watch you? How many people can they keep an eye on? What is the limits of thie ability and in a different timeline did they use it so Lucien would just kill you in your sleep. In Skyrim you take over a rumour by killing a hated woman for a bit of coin. It isn't really different than a quest, the Brotherhood in Skyrim are likely just a bunch of hitmen. And even from what I remember multiple members were in it for the coin and place to stay. It was more like a struggling family business than a shadowy guild of murderers serving a pair of dark gods.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 wasn't that the whole point of skyrims DB though is that without adhering to the nightmother and the 5 tenets the DB is nothing and thats why everything crumbled around Astrid and by the time she realized that it was to late. If anything I think it would have benefited with a couple more quests after Astrid's death and thats where you'd reform the DB with recruiting new members similar to the blades and doing some contracts etc. Then the emperor at the very end.
@rerega Sure, it fit the plot to have shit missions but the developers could have made a plot to have good missions. I think they could have had memorable quests that show cased how wrong the dark brother hood was. The game in general seemed allergic to requiring skill ranks. Can’t have an assassination mission that requires too much stealth. It’s a design problem that permeates the game. You only need to do magic twice and become the arch mage. Both times the spell is given to you. Everything else is a dungeon dive. The whole thing can be completed with all magic skills at 15. The other design decision is to advertise the quest lines more. Daedric quests are way more in your face in Skyrim. You have to actually summon them in oblivion. Skyrim makes them feel like just another quest. The ‘secret’ factions aren’t secret. The quest line is started with almost 0 player input. I also think the companions have issues requiring you to be a werewolf. If it weren’t the only warrior faction that’d be ok but it’s rather limiting and makes the faction have an evil bent. Then they force you into a revenge killing plot without really giving you a choice then proceeds to lecture you on the behavior and punish you after. All very heavy handed and it works to take away player agency.
FUN THING: Aretino wasn't supposed to start the DB quest directly, if you dig into everything Skyrim left on the cutting room floor. Source, Quoting the Cutting Room Floor wiki on the alterations to "With Friends Like These...": - The original Dark Brotherhood initiation quest had the player kill one of their friends, instead of Grelod the Kind. Unused quest date, dialogue notes and an NPC are all left in the files pointing to this. Bethesda also refrenced the act of killing your friend in pre-release texts. - *On cut NPC "Player Friend" (Form ID: 0002001F)* This NPC is placed in Candleheart Hall, always disabled. His internal name "DB02PlayerFriend" reveals that at one point he would've played a role in the Dark Brotherhood quest "With Friends Like These...". He has a unique relationship marker, (unsurprisingly) tagging him as the player's friend. I haven't pulled Skyrim apart enough to tell you how the quest was going to work out directly, but the Whit Friends Like These... quest was supposed to have you murder "Player Friend", get the WE KNOW note, and then get kidnapped.
I think Cicero was the most memorable part of Skyrim's DB. His voice actor was fantastic and I liked reading his journals. Unfortunately the rest was just... eh. I can't remember many of the quests at all.
I mean, there's multiple ways to kill people in Skyrim too, but it doesn't feel like you're rewarded as much for creativity. The most options you get in Skyrim is the assassination of the bride at her wedding, one of the best missions you get in the Skyrim DB.
@@troodon1096 Oblivion vs Skyrim DB kinda reminds me of Assassin's Creed vs Assassin's Creed 2. AS2 was definitely more polished but AS actually made me feel like an assassin, needing to gather relevant information and plan out my strike as opposed to the more theatrical approach that AS2 went with.
@@grimms1916 You should check out their TH-cam channel Rebelzize. There they have put up updates, and some of their streams where they make the new models for Skyblivion
That would actually take bethesta to get off their rear and actually do something instead of wasting their times making games that nobody plays like Fallout 76. Last time I Googled the amount of players it was like 7000 for Steam This is what they waste their time with, with these boring games of service garbage
As someone who played Skyrim first and then Oblivion, I'd give this one to Oblivion. I loved the questline in Skyrim - especially when I entered the coffin, Falkreath sanctuary getting destroyed, and Cicero. But evidently the Purification mission got me, it literally gave me the chills. And Lachance's VA when he failed to stop the Champion, sold me.
It beats skyrim in every department except character models. Thieves guild, fighters guild, mages guild, arena, main quest, side quests. The magic system especially. Way better Easter eggs. Unique weapons had different skins instead of being just a named steel longsword. I could go on. But it’s pointless when the skyrim normies are involved.
@@hamboneusmc9971 Skyrim has better alchemy, enchanting and smithing systems. Also in Skyrim it helps to mine ore where as in Oblivion you never had to mine ore at all because even to sell the gold and silver nuggets were just poor amounts. Skyrim you can walk while over your carry limit while in Oblivion you stood still. in Skyrim you can adopt kids, get married, build houses, having a choice of being a vampire or a werewolf and being a vampire outside during the day doesn't drain your health until you die but just lowers your health and it doesn't regenerate. I'd say the archery system is better in Skyrim and having the arrows weightless is good and you get to use a crossbow. So there are somethings that Skyrim did better then Oblivion and many things Oblivion did better than Skyrim. Oblivion also has the class system where you can choose the skills that best fit your character for that playthrough and there is a level cap depending on what skills you choose where as in Skyrim your level can grow as high as you want. It would've been better in Oblivion if the major skills increased your overall level as they did and the minor skills raised your overall level also but not as much as the major skills.
@@hamboneusmc9971 Dude, do you get to turn into a Warewolf in Oblivion? Do you get to become a badass hooded nightingale? Do you get to become some ninja looking sneak assassin? Do you get to turn into a vampire lord? Do you get to use amazing looking and powerful spells? In my 213 hours in Oblivion, I don’t see how the questlines are better.
@@prinzdenax the thieves guild is much better in oblivion so i don't get why you even bring that up. And yes, you can be a badass ninja looking assassin and you can do it much better in oblivion. The spell system is also better in oblivion so i don't get why you bring that up either
“Dear brother I do not spread gossip I create them” Rip Lucien he did nothing wrong I have to disagree. Immersion wise Oblivion’s intro into the story does a better job in that it is completely RANDOM. It feels like a secret society hidden. With Skyrim it’s much more streamlined and doesn’t take you by surprise. I like them both but oblivion takes the cake as far as role playing Skyrim takes the cake as far as impact
Agreed. Skyrim has a more bombastic entry but oblivion is more akin to how someone at any time could become a member. The Skyrim entry can only happen once, for whomever happens to be in the area at the time and willing to undertake it. If a second person wanted to join the dark brotherhood but the Dragonborn had already taken the contract, they’d still have to go about it the old fashioned way.
I have to give it to Oblivion. Skyrim's DB is just 7 or so rag tag quests and then you kill the emperor. The character of Astrid was good and I would have liked the ability to choose between adhering to tradition or forsaking the night mother with Astrid, but in the end she boils down to just randomly dying and then that's it. Oblivion's quest revisits old faces and has different varied quests, with optional difficult and rewarding challenges. The final mission is just awesome as it sends a rush of emotion as you are told what you have to do. In the end Oblivions DB feels like a story, Skyrims felt like busy work
I love Skyrim but oblivion’s dark brotherhood quest actually feel tailored to an assassins guild. Every quest in Skyrim is just a dungeon delve, except for the last
I loved the Alternate styles in oblivion. Sneak on a boat, make it look like an accident, swap ouy poison. Made me feel more like an actual assassin instead of just walking up to a random person and giving them a whack. A Wedding to remeber a welcome change.
Here's my take: While Skyrim is more technically impressive, Oblivion has the better overall writing. If you're in it for the spectacle, Skyrim wins. If you're in it for the story, Oblivion wins.
Sorry, Skyrim was sleeping on most of the “guilds” or factions; and The Dark Brotherhood was no exception. Oblivion had better story and better rewards. At best, killing the emperor in Skyrim was cool, but had no teeth, we won’t see any kind of results till TES VI (if any). Edit: I will say that the ability to destroy The Dark Brotherhood and turn in the bounty was a nice touch in Skyrim.
Yeah I like being able to destroy the dark brotherhood but I do feel as if it was an after thought. You go to Maro and he says oh here’s the password you go kill a guild of master assassins all on your own... I would of liked to see back up at the sanctuary or atleast a quest to get the password at the very least. And the fact that if you want to do this as a ‘good’ character you have to kill Grelod in cold blood.
@@anderil1455 agreed, they definitely could’ve done more with that quest line. Really it speaks to the over arching problem that Bethesda had with Skyrim, and that’s a severe lacking in content on side quest lines. It felt that way with actual dark brotherhood quest line.
@@anderil1455 Still, it's a fairly unsatisfactory option compared to the DB questline, especially later on. There's a mod though (of course) that adds a few Penitus Oculatus missions. I haven't tried it yet though.
Yeah I agree but if your role playing a ‘good’ character and you have no intention to do the DB questline it’s good that you can destroy them it just falls flat as a quest. If you could someone interrogate one of them after you catch them during an assassination to find the password or like you said with the Penitus Oculatus missions then that would be great but it all feels like an after thought and I guess that’s why a lot of people don’t really do it.
@@anderil1455 It's even more awkward, considering you can get attacked by random spawn encounter Dark Brotherhood assassins in game, sent by Astrid, before you even start DB quest by killing that grandma.
I think Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood ends up with you feeling more like a mercenary than an assassin. Which, on some level makes sense thematically. The Night Mother is silent, the ties to Sithis are withering. The Brotherhood is just doing what it can. It makes sense but robs the experience. It would be great if you could see the rebuilding of the Guild, and recapture the feeling of being an assassin. That's probably what the radiant quests are for, but they just seem like filler. It also doesn't help that most of the quests really don't encourage stealth. Which, at the beginning when you're basically mercenaries, it makes sense. But in Oblivion most of the contracts could be viewed as stealth puzzles beyond "crouch, stab, run".
I would actually count The Grey Prince as an unofficial "chapter zero" for Oblivion's DB questline since if you clear it and then defeat Agnorak in the arena the game still counts it as a murder because he doesn't fight back. Ironically, doing this also lets you fulfil the trigger for Lucien to seek you out in front of an audience without putting a bounty on your head.
Oh I guess that‘s what happened to me. I remember thinking Lucien approached me because I didn‘t use that healing well after one of the arena fights and guessed the well would‘ve „cleaned away my murder“.
It's always been my headcannon that Lucien was in the audience for that fight and based on how he can tell you're not a traitor just by looking at you, he can see that the Grey Prince was defeated before the battle even began and that you'd had something to do with it. Someone who could do that to the Grand Champion would make a great assassin
You could’ve also mentioned that when you kill the Khajit for the dead drop, you can find a chest inside his house with a very hard lock on it. If you unlock it, inside you’ll find Black Hand Robes. That really threw me off when I first started playing it and made me think something was up
Lol i never noticed thats such a cool Detail so some players can figure out whats up before its reavealed stuff like this is why I like oblivion so much.
Yeah, Skyrim had a more "cinematic" feel to that intro quest with the boy endlessly performing the Black Sacrament. But did you know you can go to the house of the man who hired the DB to kill Rufio in Oblivion and find the Black Sacrament in his basement? That's continuity that goes above and beyond. And I argue it's better. Sure finding the kid rambling in the dark in Skyrim is chilling -- the first time. Online, the Black Sacrament became a meme mocking that kid though, and it didn't take long. Meanwhile, in Oblivion, you discover the remains of the Sacrament in Claudius Arcadia's house only if you happen to do your own investigating. You may have met Arcadia before Lucian sent you to kill Rufio, or you may have found out after. Regardless, when you find it you get this sense that events were in motion long before your involvement. The remains of that ritual were the true beginning to your life in that unique family. And that's so much more satisfying than some kid who the devs forget about after one quest. Seriously, he's just in his house alone forever. You can't even adopt him or recruit him. It lacks polish.
@@chstens Kid voices in Bethesda games have never been great. In Whiterun the girls literally sound like the kid version Amata from Fallout 3, and the boys sound like Butch. I only say Whiterun because that's where I was when I actually noticed. Never even thought of checking the other towns.
Well there are parts of the Thieves Guild where it is actually better in Skyrim over Oblivion, and at least for College of Winterhold, you don't have to go on so many useless fetch quests just to be recommended to the school.
the thing that both games really missed out on since both use a story arc that sees you as the regional leader: recruitment missions. they could have made those generic recruits much more interesting by having the dark mother tell you about a potential recruit and how to approach them to get them to join. there's a lot of ways to approach the concept, any of which would give you a more satisfying experience in both your position and your new members.
I always liked Oblivion factions better than the ones in Skyrim. Tbh every faction in Oblivion feels like it's in its prime. The Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Mage's Guild. In Skyrim everything's falling apart and you're always the chosen one in literally every faction, while in Oblivion you actually feel like you climbed the ranks
This 100%, Skyrim - Mage guild - Fallen into Sea Thieves Guild - Cursed Companions - Cursed Dark Brotherhood - No listener just winging it Best thing in Skyrim was the civil war but that was way to short.
@@youtubeshadowbannedme In practice they did, 'The Companions' took contracts for money, they're identical to Fighters Guild except they only have a single base of operation. As a side note their storyline was also 'we're cursed come save us'. College of Magic over mages guild was significantly different from a lore perspective, but from a gameplay perspective same thing.
@@MadMalMan Hard disagree: the entrance test from Faralda in Skyrim is nothing like the Guild Hall recomendations to the Arcane University, In Skyrim you basically have only the second half of the magic main quest plot (the Eye of Magnus plotline is essentially equivalent to the Necromancer infiltration plotline of the Arcane University), Skyrim forewent the mandatory Guild Hall favor quests but gave you optional side favor quests for the three students that reward you with Followers, plus the optional Master level spell unlock quests while the Arcane University never made you earn the hardest spells beyond getting your stats and level there. The gameplay for those two is only the same thing if you only focus on the second half of Oblivion's and discard Skyrim's optional quests, or if you only do the College after you hit 90 in all schools and do the Master quests first then the main quest to make it look close enough to the Oblivion version. Also Oblivion had better pacing and at least varied its Guild recomendation quests' gameplay challenges a lot better than Skyrim's Master spell quests. Through a Nightmare Darkly was amazing, as a particular shout-out to different gameplay expectations, and I also liked the one that sets up the undercover Necromancer with the Ring of Burden where you're supposed to think about the spells you have and realize Feather and Waterbreathing will be useful, as can Fortify Strength.
It seem when it came to skyrim's factions they just wanted to give you shiny and cool rewards while in oblivion when you join a guild it felt like they were family and it felt sad to kill the whole dark brotherhood.
TBH I never joined the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim since I occasionally got attacked by assassins ordered by Astrid. She even calls you a fool in the contracts. I ain't no fool!
Yeah base Skyrim feels so shallow when it comes to quests and characters. Especially the guilds where you just gotta clear 5 generic dungeons and then the make you the leader.
@@godhand2018 agreed. TES VI better be fucking mind blowing with all this damn time they're making us wait. I know that's an unfair expectation and we just saw CDPR get shit on after their hype train grew wings and flew but ffs, we're coming up on 10 fucking years and all we got was a 30 second trailer of some terrain lmao. Like, fuck you, Bethesda. Fuck you, Todd. You can't tell me they didn't make enough money off of the 17 different Skyrim releases to hire a separate crew for Starfield and work on both games at the same time and the release them a year or two apart 🙄
When it comes to Fighters guild and Mages guild definitely Oblivion >Skyrim. The reveal of Mannimarco may have been underwhelming but at least they saved him for the end. Skyrim lets you know straight out the gate that “HEY OBVIOUS BAD GUY OVER HERE!” Then enters Ancano... For fucks sake Bethesda!
Modded Skyrim > Modded Oblivion for me. If it's down to Vanilla I love both games. Skyrim was my first so I probably like it a bit better but more or less equal.
The Mages guild in Skyrim was terrible, you go through like 3/4 caves and it's like "Cool, you're Archmage now". In Oblivion it felt so much more epic, like it was hard to get into the main University in the city and when you did it felt really exclusive, like you were a real student.
In TES 6 it would be amazing if the guilds - particularly the dark brotherhood - existed as massive networks maybe there’s dark brotherhood members in all walks of life who reveal themselves when you join
In the lore, a lot of the members have outside jobs. If I remember correctly the wood elf archer in Oblivion’s Dark Brotherhood is a hunter. One of the Black Hand members (the dark elf allergic to honey) is a traveling merchant. In ESO there is an orc who is married to a traveling merchant and tags along with him. There is also a member that is a spy for the brotherhood and acts as a personal maid in Castle Anvil. A lot of the members will allude to their outside lives while speaking with you or other NPCs, even Babette goes on walks at night and collects ingredients but also feeds on people.
26:46 … this part was actually so difficult for me, i had gotten so immersed in getting to know my fellow brothers and sisters as all speak so kindly to you. i actually cried.. i couldnt even look at the screen as i one by one chopped them down infront of me.. the blonde female even says “why sister.. why..” and it broke my heart, i felt soooo much emotion during this part. i actually tried so hard to tell them.. the vampire says im like a dark gift, and to tell me if anything was troubling me, i of course had no dialogue option so i literally took the note Lucien gave me and was trying to hold it up to his face and show him.. i actually hesitated for quite some time trying to tell them.. and when i knew i had too the khajiit was my first option, i thought.. well this wont be easy.. but taking him out first should be the easiest part.. suddenly he fucking apologies and i actually dropped my controller and bursted into tears, this part REALLY tugged at my heart strings.
I feel like Skyrim's dark brotherhood had so much potential to be more than what it was. The sanctuary designs were amazing, the family members had so much opportunity to be that much more fleshed out... I'm just thankful to the modding community for the Brotherhood of Old for Skyrim.
I think what I missed the most about Oblivion was how the camera would zoom in quickly on people's faces when you talked to them. Despite the errors with some of the NPC dialogue, it made the conversations you had with them feel more intimate and even intimidating in some circumstances.
The very first time I was exposed to Oblivion was probably around when it came out, putting me at 13ish. A friend of mine showed me the entire main quest and the Dark Brotherhood quest. 6ish years later when I came back to the Elder Scrolls after buying Skyrim for myself, I only remembered one single thing about Oblivion and that was Lucien Lachance. He was just so memorable and I was so upset with his fate. When I got the spectral assassin I actually didn't realize who it was at first, not until the 'Matthieu Bellemont' line. Then I just stared at him and started crying from nostalgia. He alone is a major reason as to why Oblivion beats Skyrim for me.
I am also allergic to honey, but oddly enough I've found that the fermentation process to make mead helps to overcome the allergic reaction. It's also specific types of honey I'm allergic to. Clover and wildflower honey will close my throat, yet orange blossom honey does not.
The Who dunnit quest is probably my favorite quest in any game. Even after forgetting many things about Oblivion after not playing it for over a decade, I always remembered that one quest. It's such an interesting idea executed quite well
I think part of why it works so well is that it's clear whoever planned it read Agatha Christie's And Then There Were None, or atleast played Laura Bow's The Colonel's Bequest. The whodunnit is quite literally there, and if you pull the strings between the guests well enough and in the right order, you can get something almost like And Then There Were None-- or if you leave a particular person, you can set up something that may well end the same way as The Colonel's Bequest's killer. It's got a few flaws compared to the two whodunnits I compared it to, but as a condensed murder mystery it's brilliant.
Skyrim factions are a difficult nut to crack. They had to design them to be possible to do for any character you build. Personally I think the player should be allowed to 'fail' any faction quest line if they didn't build out their character to fit in that faction. Or at least have 'honorary status' within that faction if they choose to leave (on good terms, of course).
This is a no brainer for me, Morag Tong represent! Really wish you could have done more with them in the games. Such a underused guild that is so unique in my opinion.
I was so disappointed in the Dragonborn DLC that they turned out to be such chumps. Like FFS you guys literally got a town eating out of your hands with three of your assassins posing as a family, and then you throw them at me like common reavers through some dilapidated fort? Is this what the assassins' guild I joined in 427 of the Third Era degenerated into in a mere two centuries with just a few tiny disasters? Did Vonoura get wiped along with Vvardenfell or something, is there a reason why you're about as competent as assassins as the Dark Brotherhood when I kill Astrid and report to Maro??? Seriously, I may have to mod that part of the assassination attempts on Morvayn to give myself some infiltration challenge and to have the Tong assassins more suspicious and cautious than they actually are. I had more of a challenge getting to the Falmer Stone in the thieves' guild, sheesh.
Fun Fact: Lucien’s mutilated corpse was actually one of the two main reasons Oblivion was switched from a T rating to an M, even though it’s just a reskinned zombie. (Also if your’re curious what the other reason is, it’s a image that can only be accessed by digging through the game files that shows a topless female player character)
Let me put it this way; In Oblivion, you get the quest to purge your own family, to kill your own dark brothers and sisters. I literally avoided completing this quest when I first played Oblivion so long ago because I loved every character, apart from the lizard who I killed via stealth while leaving everyone else alive. It was really hard for me to kill off my family. And that's the main point, when I'm told to kill off the sanctuary's residents, I asked "do I really have to kill them?" Meanwhile, in Skyrim, when I saw the place burning away, I muttered to myself; aww, you mean I don't even get to kill these guys...? Anyway, Oblivion has my vote any day.
28:10 - the Draconis quest alone was probably larger in scope and ground covered, than most of Skyrims questlines. Especially if you decide to forgo Fast Travel. I really hope that for TES6 Bethesda returns to these kinds of questlines. Same with the other guilds - whilst, sure, the mages guild in Oblivion wasn't the best, it was a very extensive quest line. Compared to the other guilds in Oblivion it was the weakest - imo anyway - but compared to Skyrim it was still crazy long and good. I had tons of fun with Skyrim but it felt like such a themepark. A big buffet of things to try, but for whatever reason they tried to make it so you can eat everything - making nothing really filling. Btw: Can we talk about how the Captain of the Leyawin guard lives in an inn? I mean surely that Captain of the guard can afford to rent or buy a house?
I love that quest and all the theories that surround who ordered the slaughter of the whole family. I've read some compelling theories that detail why the mother might have ordered the slaughter of her family and herself to avoid suspicion. Or the fact that the guard daughter had a key to the secret leyawiin torture chamber in the castle so an argonian might have ordered the murder of the guard's whole family. So intriguing.
Wow, it's like a fight between prime Tyson and Todd Howard.... The Black Hand in Oblivion is quality, tracking them and killing them with their different routines and styles (as well as hidden clues they are Black Hand). Also the who dunnit quest... Probably the best quest concept in Oblivion. The ranking system for all guilds is great too... Silencer, Speaker, Listener etc Also the armour in Oblivion is much better.
@@thetexan1011 i mean, it's not completly bad i just think there was literally no reason for it to be there, they could've included it in the main game
Skyrim's DB looks and feels as if they're on their last leg, scrounging around for contracts, following their head matriarch instead of their Commanding Leaders, and use the code very loosely. While Oblivion's DB feels as if they are professionals, Contracts are abundant, a Hierarchy, and have Discipline.
Skyrims dark brotherhood was like Star Wars Eps 7 and 8 combined into one. A love letter and a spit in the face to previous entries. All characters felt copied with few changes from Oblivion. The sanctuary gets purified due to a betrayal within the brotherhood. You're made a listener practically immediately to subvert expectations, but every other guild also makes you de facto leader after like 2 quests so it wasn't really a surprise either. Dark brotherhood in Skyrim is the best faction in the whole game, and it isn't even particularly good except for a few parts...
@@slothjon1960 In Oblivion Lucien finds you after you commit a murder, whereas in Skyrim people just say "hey go to windhelm to join the dark brotherhood"
Its like that for most of Skyrim's guilds for some reason. The Thieves guild is probably the one I despise the most. Like seriously, fuck off Brynjolf, I don't want to join your shitty group everytime I walk into Riften.
My biggest complaint about Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood is the armor. Who thought it was a good idea to give secret assassins matching uniforms in the team colors?! In Oblivion you just get a sleek black armor, that might raise some eyebrows in public, but isn't actually marked with the iconography of the Dark Brotherhood!
I like how much more in depth oblivion is, all of oblivion’s dark brotherhood assassinations are so fun and there are so many different ways to approach it, Skyrim you just are killing these random fish salesmen, in oblivion the first guy you take out you sneak on a pirate ship in a barrel and sneak into his office and kill him.The final main quest for the dark brotherhood was ok but the twist wasn’t even cool, when you find out you were killing all members of the black hand in oblivion it genuinely made me say “oh shit” because I wasn’t expecting it at all.I agree and I think Skyrim has a better intro but once you get into the quests but literally every assassination in Oblivion was enjoyable, in Skyrim you can just run into the place, make sure you are hidden and hit them with an arrow.In Oblivion you have to stalk them and you get bonuses for killing them in special ways.I think Oblivion’s depth and many different options just make it so fun but in Skyrim you just run in kill them and you are out
Absolutely agree. The Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion was some of the most fun, involved, and memorable times I've ever had in a video game. Can't wait to do it again in Skyblivion!
The ambient for Skyrim’s dark brotherhood is much better: but after listening to the whole plot of Oblivion’s dark brotherhood, even if I’ve only played Skyrim, I absolutely loved Oblivion’s story!! It’s amazing how much betrayal there is and very unexpected :))
Best ever intro ... played at Oblivion after Skyrim. Then started watching your videos about TES, Oblivion - gotta play it through, especially the Dark Brotherhood!! Thanks for all your videos!!
10:28 "there's all sorts of ways to take out the bride" your list: Fuck it up and just attack her. Cheese it with stealth archer. Do the one thing bethesda put in as an assassination option.
I really wish that Skyrim had unique kill animations for some kills. Like when you kill Astrid after the sanctuary burns with the blade of woe, it'd be cool if it didn't just look like a regular strike.
You know, hearing about Skyrim’s quest really makes you realize how crappy this “Assassin guild” is I mean there is like no plotting or real risk, as in you must sneak in and out kill this person or frame the kill on someone else, it hardcore feels like I can just rush in care free and still get praised. You aren’t an assassin your just a hired merc that sometimes keeps a low profile. Also it’s like do they even plan these kills out? Poison the emperor? Okay sounds good, steal the cooks clothes and do it yourself....hmmm but if he dies won’t I then be blamed? Nowhere to run. Also let’s try to work with this guy after we’ve murdered his son, no reason for him to turn against us at all.
I think the Oblivion DB quest line was better written. I have played through Skyrim more recently but I only remember the orphan, recruitment, the wedding, and the Emperor quest. And the wedding quest was ruined by that one dude who shows up to fight everyone even if you pulled a perfect hit and on one saw you. In Oblivion remember waking up in the inn to be recruited, I loved dropping the mounted head on the one dude from his attic, waiting for the retired guard to swim in the lake, sneaking around everywhere like it was important to not be seen. I even created custom magic items specifically to aid in some of the quests and assassinations in general. I felt like I needed to plan out the hit, not just go to the right place, walk in front door, walk behind an open door and crouch, and then kill the dude that watched me walk in.
I used to be so in love with the elder scrolls, Skyrim every day, read all of the tes books, knew everything abt the games, all the lore, I was in love from like October 2019 to maybe august of last year, and now I’m so sad that I just don’t love it as much anymore, that I’ve moved on, so now it’s so sad when I hear the Skyrim theme or “arrow in the knee” by Johnny medlar or Scott’s voice I’m so fucking saaaaad
A cool thing about the baenlin quest is that if you go back to his house some time later you find his cousin has inherited the house and if you ask him about baenlin's death he gets really defensive and asks you to leave. Pretty sure the he was the one who ordered the assassination or thats my thought anyway
I never forget the dark brotherhood quests in oblivion as a kid, the way you’re recruited, the story, the way you climb the ranks, the characters and the twists were brilliant! During the build up to Skyrim’s release I was immensely excited to see what the DB would be like and when I finally experienced it.. I was so so disappointed
Same, I think for a lot of new TES players Skyrim was a marvel and an amazing entry to the series, but for anyone who played any earlier games just sees it as a visual masterpiece but that’s about it, I mean they took all the rpg elements that worked like classes and reputation and replaced it with a power fantasy which didn’t specialise in anything, the thieves guild is just a thug simulator and the dark brotherhood seemed rushed, the whole thing seemed like a cash grab tbh and I hope in 6 they return to the old elements
One problem with Skyrim is how quick you ascended into leadership role after just starting in their guild as the rookie, with the exception of the Thieves Guild, which I believe the title is well earned thanks to its long storyline and challenges that felt as if the promotion was legitimate. I mean, compare the Thieves Guild to the Winterhold College questline and the difference is laughable. The DB here is unique, however, as the immediate ascension is used as the causality for the conflict of its main story. It sucks that we don’t get the traditional linear questline that shows your progression and getting promoted in the organization, especially in an Assassin Guild, since I do enjoy roleplaying Assassin’s Creed in a pony RPG games.
This, exactly. Thieves Guild was best in Skyrim. The Companions (A Fighters Guild in all but name) had a decent storyline in length but its narrative quality wasnt great. The best however, are Morrowind's questline that make you do banal and tedious busywork at the beginning, like gathering plants for mages and killing off rats in someones basement. Wish they had the audacity to do that nowadays.
i did like the way the factions had ranks in Oblivion it made me feel like i earned the reward and other things related to set rank not just be given leadership
I remember being like 15 in the 2000s and hearing full grown adults recommending me Oblivion. I never got the chance to play it but I sure as hell heard about it.
Obviosly oblivion. The members actually are nice and treat you like family. Makes you build a connection with them. Theres so many plot twists and turns and you actually get to earn the right to be listener Skyrim was just like Astrid: No one tells me what to do huhuhuh! Night mother: die idiot the end.
When skyrim first came out I thought that you join the dark brotherhood the same way you join in oblivion (murder someone) so when i got to whiterun I immediately murdered the stable keepers in whiterun only to learn you have to complete a quest to do so....I believe you owe the stable keepers an apology skyrim.
I don't know why Skyrim couldn't have just had you wake up in the cabin anytime after you kill an innocent. That would have been much more natural and dynamic than hitting one target for a quest.
Oblivion dark brotherhood was dope. Skyrim dark brotherhood was not bad by any means, it's still a great quest line, but just falls short to oblivions.
I felt a stronger connection to the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim. The 3 big quests of the wedding, gourmet and then killing the emperor were so good. In Oblivion the biggest highlight for me was always the party. Everything else was never the best sort of quest. Obviously Skyrim took corners on the contracts unlike Oblivion. Being able to track an NPC, learn their schedule are all key features that Skyrim didnt really do right for its contracts. Still dunno why anyone would kill Narfi... Especially when you meet that vampire in Dawnguard DLC... I would like to see in TES6 if in Hammerfell and High Rock, is the Dark Brotherhood coming back into High Rock and a lot of quests like the party one. I want to play the nobles and High Court. Now in Hammerfell I want to see something new. I want to see an assassination group created out of the need of the war against the Thalmor and the dealings of the Forebearers. A group of assassins do things differently. Either something like they dress as beggars in cities and use networks of the lowest social class to get into areas as servants or slaves. Out of the cities they are one with their terrain and use harsh weather, sand and other terrain to out maneuver their target.
No, they sucked ass, all scripted bullcrap. If you could go and poison the food alone that would have been nice or much better. Instead you HAVE to do it while the NPC talks to you, brain dead "cinematic gameplay".
The Oblivion Dark Brotherhood quests made me feel like I was Actually a Dark Brother, where as in Skyrim it felt shallow and simply going through the motions of doing quests. The only part in Skyrim where I felt I was part of the Dark Brotherhood was the killing the emperor. In Oblivion, I was really upset when Lucian was killed - I had a crush on him lol.
Ah... I've never heard the theory that you were assigned the mansion to test your ability to kill multiple targets for the Purification. I need more DB theories, I swear lol
Skyrim's quest is cool, never thought it was lame or anything of that sort. But Lucien Lachance makes the Oblivion Questline a thousand times better. And all the characters around it are awesome (I'm talkimg about the victims and supporting characters). Skyrim quest has a smaller cast wich is cool, they have more interesting backgrounds but the victims and contracts didn't have the same charm. I mean Oblivion's Brotherhood is so iconic that will probably be the best Dark Brotherhood Questline of all the franchise.
Oblivion, easily. I love my beloved Astrid, Arnbjorn, Nazir, Babette, Gabriella, Veezara, Festus, and Dear Cicero, but... The Cheydinhal sanctuary has far higher standards. More challenges, more complex areas to stalk before the kill, and more helpful advice on how to complete the kill. Additionally you can just stumble on the Falkreath Dark Brotherhood, to be welcomed into Cheydinhal Sanctuary you need to have already enveloped yourself in the mindset of a murderer. Lastly is the slow methodical nature available for some of the Cheydinhal sanctuary wins for shear immersive variety. How many assassination roles let you play the OTHER side of a Who Done It, locked room mystery?
Wall Skyrim dark brotherhood is one of my favorite parts of that game, there is no doubt that the Oblivion quest line is far Superior. The who done it quest is absolutely amazing. My biggest problem with it is having to murder all of the dark brotherhood members instead of getting a sweet quest where you figure out who the traitor is. I remember my first playthrough I legitly felt bad , and when I'm playing a psychopath in a video game it takes a lot for me to feel remorse 😭
Oblivion hands down is so great. I struggle to get thru the DB questline each time because I love all the characters. The purification kills me. Meanwhile I kinda help the Pentitus kill the DB in skyrim once it gets to that point.
The first time I discovered the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion was by compete accident. I had accidentally killed the fisherman outside of the imperial city while fighting a bandit. Like 5 days later I slept on a bedroll in a cave to level up and BOOM, lucien. I was 12. Had no idea they were a thing. Greatest gaming experience of my life
The Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion is 100% better than in Skyrim. In fact most of the faction quests are like the Fighters Guild. I really like the fact how you can actually progress through ranks its not like hey welcome to the Dark Brotherhood 'oh hey I know you joined like yesterday but you can go kill the emperor now' like wtf Skyrim. The only guild questline Skyrim wins is the Thieves Guild and thats more because of Brynjolf than anything (also I love dwemer ruins so Irkngthand as well)
Short Answer: Oblivion
Long Answer: The Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion
Skyblivion
Longer answer: Elderly aged rolls of paper wich is fourth game in franchise: oblivion
Alzheimer
@@monolithsoldier3427 lmao
good
Oblivion’s dark brotherhood quest blew my mind as a kid. I loved all the characters, and the twists were great!
Sameee like even Mraj daar is one of my favorites even though he always talks shit about my fur
@@PumaPants248 "Filthy house cat...urggh look at that fur" 😜
Yo I played it like a few months ago and my mind was BLOWN! Poor lachance :,(
Also wrath of sithis with a hand to hand build was awful
Murder cults aren't for kids
I may be biased here but Oblivion is SO much better when it comes to the Dark Brotherhood quests, stories, characters and twists.
Then again I love Oblivion more than life itself so🤷🏻♂️
The magic system is better in Oblivion, also the races and classes + attributes.
So do I :3 I've started playing from Arena and love everything before Skyrim, which felt like a massive slap in the face to the fanbase. Just to jump on the viking bandwagon and dumb down every aspect of the game. Graphics means zilch zero nothing to me. I don't care how pretty a game is, it's all about the PLAYING. That's the point of games Bethesda! 🤦♀️ I need to stop thinking about it.
Can't even compare Oblivions DB to Skyrims DB, Everything about Oblivions DB was better and more fun to play. I pretty much feel the same way about all the guilds from oblivion vs skyrim guilds
"I may be biased" is an understatement here
Agreed, Skyrim may be loaded with fun things, enad even more when modded, but Oblivion, despite all of its short comings, was better than skyrim, dual wielding spells is fun and all but not isn't as good as oblivion spell system, then spell crafting, and the quests, even though the ai is a meme, was much better than skyrim
Oblivion also made the assassinations feel like they have impacted the world. The Black Horse Courier publish several newspaper articles reporting on the deaths of the assassination targets.
Yeah, walking into a bar in Bruma and seeing Gromm drown himself in mead after failing to stop you from killing his master is chilling.
@@mm-ez6xn I think you mean Gromm?
Burd is (i think) the leader of the City guard.^^
@@Acacius1992 You're right, Gromm was his guard, not Burd.
And the client that signed that contract want the house for himself. You can meet him in that house after assassinating the previous owner
Not sure why he had the name of a prominent orc in Warcraft though. xD
This is more than cruel. This is like openly sticking a knife into Skyrim, if there’s any one part of Oblivion that is famously superior to Skyrim that everyone knows, it’s the Dark Brotherhood quest line.
Agreement
100%💪🏾
Anyone else noticed how Fudgemuppet only compare Oblivion to Skyrim with quests? Morrowind is better in terms of the rpg elements and lore, would have been great to see them compare some of the quests in Morrowind to Skyrim. So what if Oblivion is Michael and scotts first elder scrolls game, that does not make it automatically better.
@@thomasrosendahl2783 agreed but tbh the first elder scrolls game you play in my opinion is always going to be your favourite, hard to forget an experience like that. Doesn’t mean it’s the best game but will always deep down be your favourite. That aside, oblivion easily has the best faction quests in the elder scrolls series, particularly with the dark brotherhood and the thieves guild
@@thomasrosendahl2783 I dont recall them ever saying that Oblivion and Skyrim were the best. In fact I imagine Scott’s a big fan of Morrowind considering his absolute favourite race is in fact the Dunmer. This is just their comparison and views between Oblivion and Skyrim, which is a common debate considering those two are the latest mainline games.
What I love about the Oblivion DB questline is that if you take a closer look at the dead drops and compare them, not only does the handwriting change but the actual style of writing as well. Lucien Lachance has more bold writing. He gets straight to the point, only giving the most necessary information.
The traitor, on the other hand, has a more cursive writing style.
He goes out of his way to write about how your victims are supposedly evil people (though technically they are), and he constantly tries to JUSTIFY their murders. He also likes giving you compliments, even comparing you to a puppet at one point.
Sadly you can't do much about it even if you notice, but I thought that was a pretty neat detail that most people don't notice because instead of reading the actual documents they get, they just read the TLDR of the quest box and then follow the marker.
Thanks for bringing that up!!! Will have to look for that next time I make another play through, gonna be some years tho lol already did one during 2020 covid
@All_lives_matter, reject fabricated racism by govt You sound very pretentious.
The parchment is also different. When Lucien sends dead drops it's a sealed letter. When Mathieu Bellemont does it he just puts the parchment on the dead drop
@All_lives_matter, reject fabricated racism by govt ✨ When you no longer live, society will advance 50 years since you won't be able to talk crap, and the young shall dance over your rotting bodie. ✨
@@RaminousPolacious Jesus Christ, you took that too far. All he said was zoomers don’t read and don’t have attention spans, and on average he isn’t wrong.
I thought it was interesting that Astrid broke literally all 5 of the tenants
When you ask about the rules she says the 5 tenets aren’t exactly followed anymore, and the way she acts and the stuff she says makes that clear
@@CuRSE-TM not exactly followed for her sanctum*. if there’s other brotherhoods out there, it is likely they follow the tenants rather than go off a power hungry craze like astrid
@@CuRSE-TM "To break the tenants is to invite the wrath of Sithis."
That sanctum needed a good cleansing, and she certainly suffered for her transgressions.
@@makpak5057 the sanctuary in falkreath is the last dark brotherhood sanctuary in Tamriel so none of the others follow the tenants, because they dont exist.
@@braidenr4 Someone forgot about the Dawnstar Sanctuary, empty as it might be
Oblivion no contest. The quest writing in that game is far superior to most of Skyrim's quests, which I find are very hit and miss in terms of how interesting they are narratively.
For the dark brotherhood quest line I would definitely agree. For something like say the thieves guild eh not so much, I think skyrim's was much better.
Both games have generally pretty bad quest writing. It just gets good more often in Oblivion.
@@Anotherguy1st nah, skyrims thieves guild was pretty pathetic, unless you like being Mavens bitch.
@@fenixchief7 Oblivion's thieves guild was cool with having the beggars throughout the cities being your eyes and ears for good targets was nice, though at least Skyrim gave something like that with the markers placed on houses indicating what type of target for theft they could be. Ultimately Skyrim's combat just felt better so at times it was harder to go back to Oblivion swinging around a wooden sword hitting soft targets.
Idk man Skyrim it feels like your his don't comment where as in Oblivion you get the stagger more often without having to power attack & the n stamina system was more Incorporated imo@@getsueinaito
I'm really pissed you couldn't tell the members you had to do a purification before killing them. A lot of them asked why and thought you were attacking them out of spite. I liked those argonians.
I have to agree. The purification quest was probably the hardest thing for me to do in oblivion because I didn't want to kill them. Skyrims Dark Brotherhood is ok but Oblivions is definitely more memorable. I don't know if I liked that quest but it definitely added a huge shock value for me.
I was shocked I couldn't say no, like you could for all others. I stopped going through the story there
The one thing I always remember from that moment was that one guy (pretty sure he was a Khajiit) who hated you all the way through, so it’s like “well at least I get to kill that asshole” then when you get there he says “ahh maybe we should have a fresh start 😇”
Such a cruel joke from the writers 😂
I would rather not tell them, just straight to the point, quick, painless, and without time to process it. Just. Quickly.
Replaying now and just finished the Purificiation. Kills me everytime. "Why, Sister? Why?" It makes sense with what happens after, but I hated doing it.
There's a really cool tell in the Oblivion quests that the deaddrops are being switched. Firstly, if you kept all the old parchments you can see that they are written on a different style parchments and handwriting, but the main giveaway is that all of the traitors contracts go into detail about why the target has been selected and what they have done . None of the legitimate ones do, because Lucien mentions it doesn't matter why they are supposed to be killed. In addition, if you search the house of the first Black Hand member you kill, you can find his robes locked in a cupboard.
thats so cool, i never noticed that. time to replay the db i guess
Also for the Khajit and Dark Elf dead drop targets if you speak to them before killing them and choose the generic "Dark Brotherhood" esque lines rather than the generic threat or the silence options they will both clearly show surprise at being targeted by the Brotherhood, the Khajit even says something to the effect of "By Sithis what treachery is this" when I mentioned I was from the brotherhood. I immediately picked up on that my first play through and I knew something was up 😄
Really well done writing
I never would have noticed that, it’s crazy how much detail goes into these games.
Oblivion wins hands down. So many memorable quests, and plenty of twists.
Yh skyrim DB stands no chance its also shorter too
The most rewarding quest is going back to the prison lmao
Dont forget that Oblivion is a watered down rpg version of Morrowind, that many would say is a watered down version of Daggerfall.
Dark dude
"YES WE MUST KILL THAT FOUL NORD, AAAIIIIEEEEE!!"
“Dear brother I do not gossip I create them” RIP my boy Lucien he did nothing wrong
Except for all the murders, trespasses, and loitering.
He did everything wrong lmao, that's just what it is when you're a dark brotherhood assassin
Hahaha, I love Lucien too, but he did have it coming. Took me a few playthroughs to finally see it that way. Did you read that note the Draconis mother wrote to her kids? THAT’s what did it for me.
Remember, that was still Lucien before the switch up 😩
"You sleep rather soundly for a murderer. That's good, you'll need a clear conscience for what I'm about to propose."- Lucian Lachance
God i loved that quest line. Lucian was a great character
I 'm surprised people thought that's a genuinely good intro to the DB. It comes off as so goofy and memeable. I knew people liked it but I thought it was entirely for comedy.
The only parts I liked about the dark brotherhood in Skyrim was interacting with Cicero and Titus Meade II.
What about killing Grelod and the cabin in the woods?
Skyrims DB quests had some moments but disappointed that most of them had to die...could've kept the shadow scale too he was dope.
Facts.
Cicero is the best character in Skyrim in my opinion he's so well written and deep.
As well as being a tragic hero
@@fran3ro Grelot is only killed with a back stab from behind and The Cabin in the Woods is completely inconsequential it doesn't matter which order you kill the people
@@MartinJHenebury Same can be said about interacting with Cicero and TItus. You will kill Titus, and either you kill or let Cicero live it's the same. Killing Grelod gives some satisfaction, and Astrid's presentation is great, including the fact that doesn't matter who you kill or if you kill all of them. You can even kill Astrid herself, wich isn't said in this video and make "the cabin in the woods" the only short time consecuence in the game apart for taking/saving Whiterun before capturing Odahviing.
I always loved how killing someone who hadn't done anything was what kick started the quest line it gave it a more mysterious quality to it much more so than overhearing a convo about an orphan looking for the dark brotherhood
And it really helps characterize the brotherhood. They are filled with people who killed for fun or for reasons other than coin.
That and the Brotherhood gets this additional mystical note in that they were able to know you killed an innocent person with no one around. How much do they watch you? How many people can they keep an eye on? What is the limits of thie ability and in a different timeline did they use it so Lucien would just kill you in your sleep.
In Skyrim you take over a rumour by killing a hated woman for a bit of coin. It isn't really different than a quest, the Brotherhood in Skyrim are likely just a bunch of hitmen. And even from what I remember multiple members were in it for the coin and place to stay. It was more like a struggling family business than a shadowy guild of murderers serving a pair of dark gods.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 wasn't that the whole point of skyrims DB though is that without adhering to the nightmother and the 5 tenets the DB is nothing and thats why everything crumbled around Astrid and by the time she realized that it was to late. If anything I think it would have benefited with a couple more quests after Astrid's death and thats where you'd reform the DB with recruiting new members similar to the blades and doing some contracts etc. Then the emperor at the very end.
@rerega Sure, it fit the plot to have shit missions but the developers could have made a plot to have good missions.
I think they could have had memorable quests that show cased how wrong the dark brother hood was.
The game in general seemed allergic to requiring skill ranks. Can’t have an assassination mission that requires too much stealth.
It’s a design problem that permeates the game. You only need to do magic twice and become the arch mage. Both times the spell is given to you. Everything else is a dungeon dive. The whole thing can be completed with all magic skills at 15.
The other design decision is to advertise the quest lines more.
Daedric quests are way more in your face in Skyrim. You have to actually summon them in oblivion. Skyrim makes them feel like just another quest.
The ‘secret’ factions aren’t secret. The quest line is started with almost 0 player input.
I also think the companions have issues requiring you to be a werewolf. If it weren’t the only warrior faction that’d be ok but it’s rather limiting and makes the faction have an evil bent. Then they force you into a revenge killing plot without really giving you a choice then proceeds to lecture you on the behavior and punish you after. All very heavy handed and it works to take away player agency.
But on oblivion npcs say "they say when you kill someone you get a visit from the dark brotherhood it's how the recurit new members"
FUN THING: Aretino wasn't supposed to start the DB quest directly, if you dig into everything Skyrim left on the cutting room floor.
Source, Quoting the Cutting Room Floor wiki on the alterations to "With Friends Like These...":
- The original Dark Brotherhood initiation quest had the player kill one of their friends, instead of Grelod the Kind. Unused quest date, dialogue notes and an NPC are all left in the files pointing to this. Bethesda also refrenced the act of killing your friend in pre-release texts.
- *On cut NPC "Player Friend" (Form ID: 0002001F)*
This NPC is placed in Candleheart Hall, always disabled. His internal name "DB02PlayerFriend" reveals that at one point he would've played a role in the Dark Brotherhood quest "With Friends Like These...". He has a unique relationship marker, (unsurprisingly) tagging him as the player's friend.
I haven't pulled Skyrim apart enough to tell you how the quest was going to work out directly, but the Whit Friends Like These... quest was supposed to have you murder "Player Friend", get the WE KNOW note, and then get kidnapped.
Oblivion has a better questline, literally the only memorable thing about Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood is killing the emperor.
And it wasn't even the real emperor, so it felt like there was no real impact, like it was a waste of time in the end.
@@henotic.essence yeah but infiltrating the boat was fun, I suppose.
I think Cicero was the most memorable part of Skyrim's DB. His voice actor was fantastic and I liked reading his journals. Unfortunately the rest was just... eh. I can't remember many of the quests at all.
Killing the emperor’s cousin at her wedding was pretty legit and I personally LOVED Nazeem’s pun’s when you completed contracts for him
@@death_cab easily the best part of the whole thing.
I love how there's unique ways to kill people in the Oblivion contracts
I mean, there's multiple ways to kill people in Skyrim too, but it doesn't feel like you're rewarded as much for creativity. The most options you get in Skyrim is the assassination of the bride at her wedding, one of the best missions you get in the Skyrim DB.
@@troodon1096 Oblivion vs Skyrim DB kinda reminds me of Assassin's Creed vs Assassin's Creed 2. AS2 was definitely more polished but AS actually made me feel like an assassin, needing to gather relevant information and plan out my strike as opposed to the more theatrical approach that AS2 went with.
I would give my soul to sithis for an oblivion remaster.
There is Skyblivion. A group of fans are remaking Oblivion as a mod for Skyrim. I'm supper excited for it
Oblivion remake, getting the same treatment that demon souls did on modern consoles would be the high point of my life
@@grimms1916 You should check out their TH-cam channel Rebelzize. There they have put up updates, and some of their streams where they make the new models for Skyblivion
It already belongs to the dread father. It always has and always will.
That would actually take bethesta to get off their rear and actually do something instead of wasting their times making games that nobody plays like Fallout 76. Last time I Googled the amount of players it was like 7000 for Steam This is what they waste their time with, with these boring games of service garbage
As someone who played Skyrim first and then Oblivion, I'd give this one to Oblivion. I loved the questline in Skyrim - especially when I entered the coffin, Falkreath sanctuary getting destroyed, and Cicero. But evidently the Purification mission got me, it literally gave me the chills. And Lachance's VA when he failed to stop the Champion, sold me.
Same here, but my favorite questline is when you have to kill every guest stealthily in that mansion. It is based on an Agatha Christie novel.
@@jorgeenriquez637 love that you can convince other party goers that someone else is the killer. Until it's only you and the last victim
"No....NOOOOOOOOO! Thought I could get to you in time! Thought I could STOP YOU! Byyyy Sithisssss, what MADNESS has claimed you?!"
This isn’t even fair. Oblivion’s dark brotherhood is probably the best part of the game along with the shivering isles.
It beats skyrim in every department except character models. Thieves guild, fighters guild, mages guild, arena, main quest, side quests. The magic system especially. Way better Easter eggs. Unique weapons had different skins instead of being just a named steel longsword. I could go on. But it’s pointless when the skyrim normies are involved.
Shivering Isles the best DLC ever made.
@@hamboneusmc9971 Skyrim has better alchemy, enchanting and smithing systems. Also in Skyrim it helps to mine ore where as in Oblivion you never had to mine ore at all because even to sell the gold and silver nuggets were just poor amounts. Skyrim you can walk while over your carry limit while in Oblivion you stood still. in Skyrim you can adopt kids, get married, build houses, having a choice of being a vampire or a werewolf and being a vampire outside during the day doesn't drain your health until you die but just lowers your health and it doesn't regenerate. I'd say the archery system is better in Skyrim and having the arrows weightless is good and you get to use a crossbow.
So there are somethings that Skyrim did better then Oblivion and many things Oblivion did better than Skyrim. Oblivion also has the class system where you can choose the skills that best fit your character for that playthrough and there is a level cap depending on what skills you choose where as in Skyrim your level can grow as high as you want. It would've been better in Oblivion if the major skills increased your overall level as they did and the minor skills raised your overall level also but not as much as the major skills.
@@hamboneusmc9971 Dude, do you get to turn into a Warewolf in Oblivion? Do you get to become a badass hooded nightingale? Do you get to become some ninja looking sneak assassin? Do you get to turn into a vampire lord? Do you get to use amazing looking and powerful spells? In my 213 hours in Oblivion, I don’t see how the questlines are better.
@@prinzdenax the thieves guild is much better in oblivion so i don't get why you even bring that up. And yes, you can be a badass ninja looking assassin and you can do it much better in oblivion. The spell system is also better in oblivion so i don't get why you bring that up either
“Dear brother I do not spread gossip I create them” Rip Lucien he did nothing wrong
I have to disagree. Immersion wise Oblivion’s intro into the story does a better job in that it is completely RANDOM. It feels like a secret society hidden. With Skyrim it’s much more streamlined and doesn’t take you by surprise. I like them both but oblivion takes the cake as far as role playing Skyrim takes the cake as far as impact
Agreed. Skyrim has a more bombastic entry but oblivion is more akin to how someone at any time could become a member. The Skyrim entry can only happen once, for whomever happens to be in the area at the time and willing to undertake it. If a second person wanted to join the dark brotherhood but the Dragonborn had already taken the contract, they’d still have to go about it the old fashioned way.
Thank you.
I believe he said "Dear brother/sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them" but it was listed under the gossip option on his dialogue choices.
I remember playing oblivion for hours until i found the DB, but with skyrim i was just stroling into town.
Impact goes to skyrim? I'm sorry I just don't know what you think impact means...
I have to give it to Oblivion. Skyrim's DB is just 7 or so rag tag quests and then you kill the emperor. The character of Astrid was good and I would have liked the ability to choose between adhering to tradition or forsaking the night mother with Astrid, but in the end she boils down to just randomly dying and then that's it. Oblivion's quest revisits old faces and has different varied quests, with optional difficult and rewarding challenges. The final mission is just awesome as it sends a rush of emotion as you are told what you have to do. In the end Oblivions DB feels like a story, Skyrims felt like busy work
I love Skyrim but oblivion’s dark brotherhood quest actually feel tailored to an assassins guild. Every quest in Skyrim is just a dungeon delve, except for the last
I loved the Alternate styles in oblivion. Sneak on a boat, make it look like an accident, swap ouy poison. Made me feel more like an actual assassin instead of just walking up to a random person and giving them a whack. A Wedding to remeber a welcome change.
Here's my take: While Skyrim is more technically impressive, Oblivion has the better overall writing. If you're in it for the spectacle, Skyrim wins. If you're in it for the story, Oblivion wins.
If you drop the mother's head in the room with the massacred Lucien Lachance, Matthew Belamont has some special dialogue
Is this even a discussion? The Oblivion Dark Brotherhood is probably the best questline Bethesda ever made
Sorry, Skyrim was sleeping on most of the “guilds” or factions; and The Dark Brotherhood was no exception. Oblivion had better story and better rewards. At best, killing the emperor in Skyrim was cool, but had no teeth, we won’t see any kind of results till TES VI (if any).
Edit: I will say that the ability to destroy The Dark Brotherhood and turn in the bounty was a nice touch in Skyrim.
Yeah I like being able to destroy the dark brotherhood but I do feel as if it was an after thought. You go to Maro and he says oh here’s the password you go kill a guild of master assassins all on your own... I would of liked to see back up at the sanctuary or atleast a quest to get the password at the very least. And the fact that if you want to do this as a ‘good’ character you have to kill Grelod in cold blood.
@@anderil1455 agreed, they definitely could’ve done more with that quest line. Really it speaks to the over arching problem that Bethesda had with Skyrim, and that’s a severe lacking in content on side quest lines. It felt that way with actual dark brotherhood quest line.
@@anderil1455 Still, it's a fairly unsatisfactory option compared to the DB questline, especially later on. There's a mod though (of course) that adds a few Penitus Oculatus missions. I haven't tried it yet though.
Yeah I agree but if your role playing a ‘good’ character and you have no intention to do the DB questline it’s good that you can destroy them it just falls flat as a quest. If you could someone interrogate one of them after you catch them during an assassination to find the password or like you said with the Penitus Oculatus missions then that would be great but it all feels like an after thought and I guess that’s why a lot of people don’t really do it.
@@anderil1455 It's even more awkward, considering you can get attacked by random spawn encounter Dark Brotherhood assassins in game, sent by Astrid, before you even start DB quest by killing that grandma.
I think Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood ends up with you feeling more like a mercenary than an assassin. Which, on some level makes sense thematically. The Night Mother is silent, the ties to Sithis are withering. The Brotherhood is just doing what it can.
It makes sense but robs the experience. It would be great if you could see the rebuilding of the Guild, and recapture the feeling of being an assassin. That's probably what the radiant quests are for, but they just seem like filler.
It also doesn't help that most of the quests really don't encourage stealth. Which, at the beginning when you're basically mercenaries, it makes sense. But in Oblivion most of the contracts could be viewed as stealth puzzles beyond "crouch, stab, run".
I would actually count The Grey Prince as an unofficial "chapter zero" for Oblivion's DB questline since if you clear it and then defeat Agnorak in the arena the game still counts it as a murder because he doesn't fight back. Ironically, doing this also lets you fulfil the trigger for Lucien to seek you out in front of an audience without putting a bounty on your head.
Oh I guess that‘s what happened to me. I remember thinking Lucien approached me because I didn‘t use that healing well after one of the arena fights and guessed the well would‘ve „cleaned away my murder“.
It's always been my headcannon that Lucien was in the audience for that fight and based on how he can tell you're not a traitor just by looking at you, he can see that the Grey Prince was defeated before the battle even began and that you'd had something to do with it. Someone who could do that to the Grand Champion would make a great assassin
Skyrim quests are kind of bland compared to earlier titles.... dont need to watch and i can say Oblivion
Yup
You could’ve also mentioned that when you kill the Khajit for the dead drop, you can find a chest inside his house with a very hard lock on it. If you unlock it, inside you’ll find Black Hand Robes.
That really threw me off when I first started playing it and made me think something was up
Lol i never noticed thats such a cool Detail so some players can figure out whats up before its reavealed stuff like this is why I like oblivion so much.
And inside Alval Uvani's house, in a very hard locked safe behind a painting, he also has Black Hand robes
@@Trifixion22 I knew about j'ghasta's robes in the mead drums under very hard lock but not this one. Amazing
Oblivion hands down! It has one of my favorite quests in the Elder Scrolls. The Whodunit quest.
Yes! Best quest ever.
They actually put *effort* into thinking those ones up. Skyrim is just all bluster and no subtlety.
@@IshtarNike all flash and no fury
Yeah, Skyrim had a more "cinematic" feel to that intro quest with the boy endlessly performing the Black Sacrament. But did you know you can go to the house of the man who hired the DB to kill Rufio in Oblivion and find the Black Sacrament in his basement? That's continuity that goes above and beyond. And I argue it's better.
Sure finding the kid rambling in the dark in Skyrim is chilling -- the first time. Online, the Black Sacrament became a meme mocking that kid though, and it didn't take long. Meanwhile, in Oblivion, you discover the remains of the Sacrament in Claudius Arcadia's house only if you happen to do your own investigating. You may have met Arcadia before Lucian sent you to kill Rufio, or you may have found out after. Regardless, when you find it you get this sense that events were in motion long before your involvement. The remains of that ritual were the true beginning to your life in that unique family. And that's so much more satisfying than some kid who the devs forget about after one quest. Seriously, he's just in his house alone forever. You can't even adopt him or recruit him. It lacks polish.
I fucking hate that kids voice acting, all the Skyrim kids voice acting really. Completely ruined the black sacrament for me.
@@chstens Kid voices in Bethesda games have never been great. In Whiterun the girls literally sound like the kid version Amata from Fallout 3, and the boys sound like Butch.
I only say Whiterun because that's where I was when I actually noticed. Never even thought of checking the other towns.
@@Mephilis78 Yeah, they're all awful.
Oblivion
Not just put against the DB in Skyrim but against any other faction.
Their quest is just THAT good
The one that really kicks Skyrim in the dick in comparison is the Fighter's Guild vs the Companions. The Companions questline sucks soooo hard.
@@crazyscotsman9327 the guilds in Skyrim just really all suck in comparison
@@crazyscotsman9327 Skyrim doesn't have a single good questline when you compare it against more competent games.
Well there are parts of the Thieves Guild where it is actually better in Skyrim over Oblivion, and at least for College of Winterhold, you don't have to go on so many useless fetch quests just to be recommended to the school.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 I'd have to disagree on 1 exception; the Dawnguard questline is far better than Knights of the Nine
the thing that both games really missed out on since both use a story arc that sees you as the regional leader: recruitment missions. they could have made those generic recruits much more interesting by having the dark mother tell you about a potential recruit and how to approach them to get them to join. there's a lot of ways to approach the concept, any of which would give you a more satisfying experience in both your position and your new members.
Getting to Lucien Lachance people would have been so incredibly cool.
I always liked Oblivion factions better than the ones in Skyrim. Tbh every faction in Oblivion feels like it's in its prime. The Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Mage's Guild. In Skyrim everything's falling apart and you're always the chosen one in literally every faction, while in Oblivion you actually feel like you climbed the ranks
This 100%,
Skyrim - Mage guild - Fallen into Sea
Thieves Guild - Cursed
Companions - Cursed
Dark Brotherhood - No listener just winging it
Best thing in Skyrim was the civil war but that was way to short.
@@MadMalMan Skyrim officially never had Mages and Fighters Guild there
@@youtubeshadowbannedme In practice they did, 'The Companions' took contracts for money, they're identical to Fighters Guild except they only have a single base of operation. As a side note their storyline was also 'we're cursed come save us'.
College of Magic over mages guild was significantly different from a lore perspective, but from a gameplay perspective same thing.
@@MadMalMan Hard disagree: the entrance test from Faralda in Skyrim is nothing like the Guild Hall recomendations to the Arcane University, In Skyrim you basically have only the second half of the magic main quest plot (the Eye of Magnus plotline is essentially equivalent to the Necromancer infiltration plotline of the Arcane University), Skyrim forewent the mandatory Guild Hall favor quests but gave you optional side favor quests for the three students that reward you with Followers, plus the optional Master level spell unlock quests while the Arcane University never made you earn the hardest spells beyond getting your stats and level there.
The gameplay for those two is only the same thing if you only focus on the second half of Oblivion's and discard Skyrim's optional quests, or if you only do the College after you hit 90 in all schools and do the Master quests first then the main quest to make it look close enough to the Oblivion version.
Also Oblivion had better pacing and at least varied its Guild recomendation quests' gameplay challenges a lot better than Skyrim's Master spell quests. Through a Nightmare Darkly was amazing, as a particular shout-out to different gameplay expectations, and I also liked the one that sets up the undercover Necromancer with the Ring of Burden where you're supposed to think about the spells you have and realize Feather and Waterbreathing will be useful, as can Fortify Strength.
I just want TES6 already man it's been almost 10 years since skyrim was released ( 11-11-2011)
It seem when it came to skyrim's factions they just wanted to give you shiny and cool rewards while in oblivion when you join a guild it felt like they were family and it felt sad to kill the whole dark brotherhood.
TBH I never joined the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim since I occasionally got attacked by assassins ordered by Astrid. She even calls you a fool in the contracts. I ain't no fool!
😂😂
Oblivion > Skyrim in more ways than just this.
Yeah base Skyrim feels so shallow when it comes to quests and characters. Especially the guilds where you just gotta clear 5 generic dungeons and then the make you the leader.
@@godhand2018 agreed. TES VI better be fucking mind blowing with all this damn time they're making us wait. I know that's an unfair expectation and we just saw CDPR get shit on after their hype train grew wings and flew but ffs, we're coming up on 10 fucking years and all we got was a 30 second trailer of some terrain lmao. Like, fuck you, Bethesda. Fuck you, Todd.
You can't tell me they didn't make enough money off of the 17 different Skyrim releases to hire a separate crew for Starfield and work on both games at the same time and the release them a year or two apart 🙄
When it comes to Fighters guild and Mages guild definitely Oblivion >Skyrim.
The reveal of Mannimarco may have been underwhelming but at least they saved him for the end.
Skyrim lets you know straight out the gate that “HEY OBVIOUS BAD GUY OVER HERE!”
Then enters Ancano...
For fucks sake Bethesda!
Modded Skyrim > Modded Oblivion for me. If it's down to Vanilla I love both games. Skyrim was my first so I probably like it a bit better but more or less equal.
The Mages guild in Skyrim was terrible, you go through like 3/4 caves and it's like "Cool, you're Archmage now". In Oblivion it felt so much more epic, like it was hard to get into the main University in the city and when you did it felt really exclusive, like you were a real student.
In TES 6 it would be amazing if the guilds - particularly the dark brotherhood - existed as massive networks maybe there’s dark brotherhood members in all walks of life who reveal themselves when you join
You mean like the cannibals in Markarth? If so I agree 100%. That Namira quest was so good mostly because of that.
In the lore, a lot of the members have outside jobs. If I remember correctly the wood elf archer in Oblivion’s Dark Brotherhood is a hunter. One of the Black Hand members (the dark elf allergic to honey) is a traveling merchant. In ESO there is an orc who is married to a traveling merchant and tags along with him. There is also a member that is a spy for the brotherhood and acts as a personal maid in Castle Anvil. A lot of the members will allude to their outside lives while speaking with you or other NPCs, even Babette goes on walks at night and collects ingredients but also feeds on people.
10:41 you forgot one, you can shoot off a fury spell and watch as the bride and groom skip to the death do us part bit
26:46 … this part was actually so difficult for me, i had gotten so immersed in getting to know my fellow brothers and sisters as all speak so kindly to you.
i actually cried.. i couldnt even look at the screen as i one by one chopped them down infront of me.. the blonde female even says “why sister.. why..” and it broke my heart, i felt soooo much emotion during this part. i actually tried so hard to tell them.. the vampire says im like a dark gift, and to tell me if anything was troubling me, i of course had no dialogue option so i literally took the note Lucien gave me and was trying to hold it up to his face and show him.. i actually hesitated for quite some time trying to tell them.. and when i knew i had too the khajiit was my first option, i thought.. well this wont be easy.. but taking him out first should be the easiest part.. suddenly he fucking apologies and i actually dropped my controller and bursted into tears, this part REALLY tugged at my heart strings.
I feel like Skyrim's dark brotherhood had so much potential to be more than what it was. The sanctuary designs were amazing, the family members had so much opportunity to be that much more fleshed out... I'm just thankful to the modding community for the Brotherhood of Old for Skyrim.
I think what I missed the most about Oblivion was how the camera would zoom in quickly on people's faces when you talked to them. Despite the errors with some of the NPC dialogue, it made the conversations you had with them feel more intimate and even intimidating in some circumstances.
Before I even watch this it’s got to be db from oblivion hands down
The very first time I was exposed to Oblivion was probably around when it came out, putting me at 13ish. A friend of mine showed me the entire main quest and the Dark Brotherhood quest. 6ish years later when I came back to the Elder Scrolls after buying Skyrim for myself, I only remembered one single thing about Oblivion and that was Lucien Lachance. He was just so memorable and I was so upset with his fate. When I got the spectral assassin I actually didn't realize who it was at first, not until the 'Matthieu Bellemont' line. Then I just stared at him and started crying from nostalgia. He alone is a major reason as to why Oblivion beats Skyrim for me.
I am also allergic to honey, but oddly enough I've found that the fermentation process to make mead helps to overcome the allergic reaction. It's also specific types of honey I'm allergic to. Clover and wildflower honey will close my throat, yet orange blossom honey does not.
You're allergic to certain pollens, not honey in general.
The Who dunnit quest is probably my favorite quest in any game. Even after forgetting many things about Oblivion after not playing it for over a decade, I always remembered that one quest. It's such an interesting idea executed quite well
I think part of why it works so well is that it's clear whoever planned it read Agatha Christie's And Then There Were None, or atleast played Laura Bow's The Colonel's Bequest. The whodunnit is quite literally there, and if you pull the strings between the guests well enough and in the right order, you can get something almost like And Then There Were None-- or if you leave a particular person, you can set up something that may well end the same way as The Colonel's Bequest's killer.
It's got a few flaws compared to the two whodunnits I compared it to, but as a condensed murder mystery it's brilliant.
The Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim was probably the best guild questline (rip mages Guild) but it pales in comparison to Oblivion's Dark Brotherhood.
Yeah but u have to say i did like the Academy of Winterhold...it was something different:)
@@totoro9172 it was short
@@amethystwyvern short doesmt mean it wasnt good...better short and good than long and bad
Babe wake up, FudgeMuppet just uploaded!
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hey u your finally awake
Skyrim factions are a difficult nut to crack. They had to design them to be possible to do for any character you build.
Personally I think the player should be allowed to 'fail' any faction quest line if they didn't build out their character to fit in that faction. Or at least have 'honorary status' within that faction if they choose to leave (on good terms, of course).
I'm a simple woman... I see Lucien Lachance, I click.
Down bad
This is a no brainer for me, Morag Tong represent! Really wish you could have done more with them in the games. Such a underused guild that is so unique in my opinion.
I was so disappointed in the Dragonborn DLC that they turned out to be such chumps.
Like FFS you guys literally got a town eating out of your hands with three of your assassins posing as a family, and then you throw them at me like common reavers through some dilapidated fort?
Is this what the assassins' guild I joined in 427 of the Third Era degenerated into in a mere two centuries with just a few tiny disasters? Did Vonoura get wiped along with Vvardenfell or something, is there a reason why you're about as competent as assassins as the Dark Brotherhood when I kill Astrid and report to Maro???
Seriously, I may have to mod that part of the assassination attempts on Morvayn to give myself some infiltration challenge and to have the Tong assassins more suspicious and cautious than they actually are. I had more of a challenge getting to the Falmer Stone in the thieves' guild, sheesh.
Fun Fact: Lucien’s mutilated corpse was actually one of the two main reasons Oblivion was switched from a T rating to an M, even though it’s just a reskinned zombie.
(Also if your’re curious what the other reason is, it’s a image that can only be accessed by digging through the game files that shows a topless female player character)
Let me put it this way; In Oblivion, you get the quest to purge your own family, to kill your own dark brothers and sisters. I literally avoided completing this quest when I first played Oblivion so long ago because I loved every character, apart from the lizard who I killed via stealth while leaving everyone else alive. It was really hard for me to kill off my family. And that's the main point, when I'm told to kill off the sanctuary's residents, I asked "do I really have to kill them?"
Meanwhile, in Skyrim, when I saw the place burning away, I muttered to myself; aww, you mean I don't even get to kill these guys...?
Anyway, Oblivion has my vote any day.
28:10 - the Draconis quest alone was probably larger in scope and ground covered, than most of Skyrims questlines. Especially if you decide to forgo Fast Travel. I really hope that for TES6 Bethesda returns to these kinds of questlines. Same with the other guilds - whilst, sure, the mages guild in Oblivion wasn't the best, it was a very extensive quest line. Compared to the other guilds in Oblivion it was the weakest - imo anyway - but compared to Skyrim it was still crazy long and good.
I had tons of fun with Skyrim but it felt like such a themepark. A big buffet of things to try, but for whatever reason they tried to make it so you can eat everything - making nothing really filling.
Btw: Can we talk about how the Captain of the Leyawin guard lives in an inn? I mean surely that Captain of the guard can afford to rent or buy a house?
I love that quest and all the theories that surround who ordered the slaughter of the whole family. I've read some compelling theories that detail why the mother might have ordered the slaughter of her family and herself to avoid suspicion. Or the fact that the guard daughter had a key to the secret leyawiin torture chamber in the castle so an argonian might have ordered the murder of the guard's whole family. So intriguing.
Wow, it's like a fight between prime Tyson and Todd Howard....
The Black Hand in Oblivion is quality, tracking them and killing them with their different routines and styles (as well as hidden clues they are Black Hand).
Also the who dunnit quest... Probably the best quest concept in Oblivion.
The ranking system for all guilds is great too... Silencer, Speaker, Listener etc
Also the armour in Oblivion is much better.
Oblivion's is, wholeheartedly, far superior to skyrim's. No cap.
Maybe not the graphics, but almost everything else, oblivion did it better.
Still mad about the horse armor tho.
@@thetexan1011 i mean, it's not completly bad i just think there was literally no reason for it to be there, they could've included it in the main game
@@qtfy true
lucian says ''there is an assassin among assassins in cheydinhal sanctuary'' lol
The Dark Brotherhood wins by far, nothing can best the "AAAIIIIEEEEEEE" in the Whodunit quest
Skyrim's DB looks and feels as if they're on their last leg, scrounging around for contracts, following their head matriarch instead of their Commanding Leaders, and use the code very loosely.
While Oblivion's DB feels as if they are professionals, Contracts are abundant, a Hierarchy, and have Discipline.
Skyrims dark brotherhood was like Star Wars Eps 7 and 8 combined into one.
A love letter and a spit in the face to previous entries. All characters felt copied with few changes from Oblivion. The sanctuary gets purified due to a betrayal within the brotherhood.
You're made a listener practically immediately to subvert expectations, but every other guild also makes you de facto leader after like 2 quests so it wasn't really a surprise either.
Dark brotherhood in Skyrim is the best faction in the whole game, and it isn't even particularly good except for a few parts...
If nothing else, Oblivian's is better simply because entry isn't spoonfed to you.
The Whodunit quest alone made me love it, The feeling of killing off people as they slowly succumb to insanity haha
@@slothjon1960 In Oblivion Lucien finds you after you commit a murder, whereas in Skyrim people just say "hey go to windhelm to join the dark brotherhood"
Its like that for most of Skyrim's guilds for some reason. The Thieves guild is probably the one I despise the most. Like seriously, fuck off Brynjolf, I don't want to join your shitty group everytime I walk into Riften.
My biggest complaint about Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood is the armor. Who thought it was a good idea to give secret assassins matching uniforms in the team colors?!
In Oblivion you just get a sleek black armor, that might raise some eyebrows in public, but isn't actually marked with the iconography of the Dark Brotherhood!
I like how much more in depth oblivion is, all of oblivion’s dark brotherhood assassinations are so fun and there are so many different ways to approach it, Skyrim you just are killing these random fish salesmen, in oblivion the first guy you take out you sneak on a pirate ship in a barrel and sneak into his office and kill him.The final main quest for the dark brotherhood was ok but the twist wasn’t even cool, when you find out you were killing all members of the black hand in oblivion it genuinely made me say “oh shit” because I wasn’t expecting it at all.I agree and I think Skyrim has a better intro but once you get into the quests but literally every assassination in Oblivion was enjoyable, in Skyrim you can just run into the place, make sure you are hidden and hit them with an arrow.In Oblivion you have to stalk them and you get bonuses for killing them in special ways.I think Oblivion’s depth and many different options just make it so fun but in Skyrim you just run in kill them and you are out
Absolutely agree.
The Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion was some of the most fun, involved, and memorable times I've ever had in a video game.
Can't wait to do it again in Skyblivion!
The ambient for Skyrim’s dark brotherhood is much better: but after listening to the whole plot of Oblivion’s dark brotherhood, even if I’ve only played Skyrim, I absolutely loved Oblivion’s story!! It’s amazing how much betrayal there is and very unexpected :))
Best ever intro ... played at Oblivion after Skyrim. Then started watching your videos about TES, Oblivion - gotta play it through, especially the Dark Brotherhood!! Thanks for all your videos!!
Now I have to play Oblivion for myself! I want to see Lucien Lachance not as a ghost thrall as in Skyrim.
It's the better of the Elder Scrolls I haven't played Morrowind but people like that one too
10:28 "there's all sorts of ways to take out the bride"
your list:
Fuck it up and just attack her.
Cheese it with stealth archer.
Do the one thing bethesda put in as an assassination option.
I really wish that Skyrim had unique kill animations for some kills. Like when you kill Astrid after the sanctuary burns with the blade of woe, it'd be cool if it didn't just look like a regular strike.
Skyrim just has graphics advantage but, for sheer enjoyment?.... Oblivion wins. Map feels larger and the variety of beasts to kill is better.
I agree but
The map feels larger true but there is so much emptiness aside from the fact that there enemies
@@gptechnologiesmangalore6909 True large gaps between foes.
You know, hearing about Skyrim’s quest really makes you realize how crappy this “Assassin guild” is
I mean there is like no plotting or real risk, as in you must sneak in and out kill this person or frame the kill on someone else, it hardcore feels like I can just rush in care free and still get praised. You aren’t an assassin your just a hired merc that sometimes keeps a low profile.
Also it’s like do they even plan these kills out? Poison the emperor? Okay sounds good, steal the cooks clothes and do it yourself....hmmm but if he dies won’t I then be blamed? Nowhere to run.
Also let’s try to work with this guy after we’ve murdered his son, no reason for him to turn against us at all.
I think the Oblivion DB quest line was better written.
I have played through Skyrim more recently but I only remember the orphan, recruitment, the wedding, and the Emperor quest. And the wedding quest was ruined by that one dude who shows up to fight everyone even if you pulled a perfect hit and on one saw you.
In Oblivion remember waking up in the inn to be recruited, I loved dropping the mounted head on the one dude from his attic, waiting for the retired guard to swim in the lake, sneaking around everywhere like it was important to not be seen. I even created custom magic items specifically to aid in some of the quests and assassinations in general. I felt like I needed to plan out the hit, not just go to the right place, walk in front door, walk behind an open door and crouch, and then kill the dude that watched me walk in.
I used to be so in love with the elder scrolls, Skyrim every day, read all of the tes books, knew everything abt the games, all the lore, I was in love from like October 2019 to maybe august of last year, and now I’m so sad that I just don’t love it as much anymore, that I’ve moved on, so now it’s so sad when I hear the Skyrim theme or “arrow in the knee” by Johnny medlar or Scott’s voice
I’m so fucking saaaaad
U will love it again trust me... U just need a big break from Bethesda :)
@@totoro9172 yeah lol
A cool thing about the baenlin quest is that if you go back to his house some time later you find his cousin has inherited the house and if you ask him about baenlin's death he gets really defensive and asks you to leave. Pretty sure the he was the one who ordered the assassination or thats my thought anyway
Also he's named Caenlin lol
Did Baelin hire someone to take out his cousin Aaelin in order to inherit that house?
Every single faction in Oblivion is better than every single faction in Skyrim. Every. Single. One.
I never forget the dark brotherhood quests in oblivion as a kid, the way you’re recruited, the story, the way you climb the ranks, the characters and the twists were brilliant! During the build up to Skyrim’s release I was immensely excited to see what the DB would be like and when I finally experienced it.. I was so so disappointed
Same, I think for a lot of new TES players Skyrim was a marvel and an amazing entry to the series, but for anyone who played any earlier games just sees it as a visual masterpiece but that’s about it, I mean they took all the rpg elements that worked like classes and reputation and replaced it with a power fantasy which didn’t specialise in anything, the thieves guild is just a thug simulator and the dark brotherhood seemed rushed, the whole thing seemed like a cash grab tbh and I hope in 6 they return to the old elements
One problem with Skyrim is how quick you ascended into leadership role after just starting in their guild as the rookie, with the exception of the Thieves Guild, which I believe the title is well earned thanks to its long storyline and challenges that felt as if the promotion was legitimate. I mean, compare the Thieves Guild to the Winterhold College questline and the difference is laughable. The DB here is unique, however, as the immediate ascension is used as the causality for the conflict of its main story. It sucks that we don’t get the traditional linear questline that shows your progression and getting promoted in the organization, especially in an Assassin Guild, since I do enjoy roleplaying Assassin’s Creed in a pony RPG games.
This, exactly. Thieves Guild was best in Skyrim. The Companions (A Fighters Guild in all but name) had a decent storyline in length but its narrative quality wasnt great. The best however, are Morrowind's questline that make you do banal and tedious busywork at the beginning, like gathering plants for mages and killing off rats in someones basement. Wish they had the audacity to do that nowadays.
i did like the way the factions had ranks in Oblivion it made me feel like i earned the reward and other things related to set rank not just be given leadership
I remember being like 15 in the 2000s and hearing full grown adults recommending me Oblivion. I never got the chance to play it but I sure as hell heard about it.
Obviosly oblivion. The members actually are nice and treat you like family. Makes you build a connection with them. Theres so many plot twists and turns and you actually get to earn the right to be listener
Skyrim was just like
Astrid: No one tells me what to do huhuhuh!
Night mother: die idiot
the end.
When skyrim first came out I thought that you join the dark brotherhood the same way you join in oblivion (murder someone) so when i got to whiterun I immediately murdered the stable keepers in whiterun only to learn you have to complete a quest to do so....I believe you owe the stable keepers an apology skyrim.
I don't know why Skyrim couldn't have just had you wake up in the cabin anytime after you kill an innocent. That would have been much more natural and dynamic than hitting one target for a quest.
Oblivion dark brotherhood was dope.
Skyrim dark brotherhood was not bad by any means, it's still a great quest line, but just falls short to oblivions.
I have a black hand "We Know" hoodie and literally everywhere I go people are always calling it out. It's pretty great.
I felt a stronger connection to the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim. The 3 big quests of the wedding, gourmet and then killing the emperor were so good. In Oblivion the biggest highlight for me was always the party. Everything else was never the best sort of quest. Obviously Skyrim took corners on the contracts unlike Oblivion. Being able to track an NPC, learn their schedule are all key features that Skyrim didnt really do right for its contracts. Still dunno why anyone would kill Narfi... Especially when you meet that vampire in Dawnguard DLC... I would like to see in TES6 if in Hammerfell and High Rock, is the Dark Brotherhood coming back into High Rock and a lot of quests like the party one. I want to play the nobles and High Court. Now in Hammerfell I want to see something new. I want to see an assassination group created out of the need of the war against the Thalmor and the dealings of the Forebearers. A group of assassins do things differently. Either something like they dress as beggars in cities and use networks of the lowest social class to get into areas as servants or slaves. Out of the cities they are one with their terrain and use harsh weather, sand and other terrain to out maneuver their target.
No, they sucked ass, all scripted bullcrap. If you could go and poison the food alone that would have been nice or much better. Instead you HAVE to do it while the NPC talks to you, brain dead "cinematic gameplay".
The Oblivion Dark Brotherhood quests made me feel like I was Actually a Dark Brother, where as in Skyrim it felt shallow and simply going through the motions of doing quests. The only part in Skyrim where I felt I was part of the Dark Brotherhood was the killing the emperor. In Oblivion, I was really upset when Lucian was killed - I had a crush on him lol.
Ah... I've never heard the theory that you were assigned the mansion to test your ability to kill multiple targets for the Purification. I need more DB theories, I swear lol
Skyrim's quest is cool, never thought it was lame or anything of that sort. But Lucien Lachance makes the Oblivion Questline a thousand times better. And all the characters around it are awesome (I'm talkimg about the victims and supporting characters). Skyrim quest has a smaller cast wich is cool, they have more interesting backgrounds but the victims and contracts didn't have the same charm. I mean Oblivion's Brotherhood is so iconic that will probably be the best Dark Brotherhood Questline of all the franchise.
Oblivion wins, Skyrim doesn’t have it’s twist...but I prefer the final target in Skyrim, Emperor Titus Mede II
Oblivion, easily. I love my beloved Astrid, Arnbjorn, Nazir, Babette, Gabriella, Veezara, Festus, and Dear Cicero, but... The Cheydinhal sanctuary has far higher standards. More challenges, more complex areas to stalk before the kill, and more helpful advice on how to complete the kill. Additionally you can just stumble on the Falkreath Dark Brotherhood, to be welcomed into Cheydinhal Sanctuary you need to have already enveloped yourself in the mindset of a murderer. Lastly is the slow methodical nature available for some of the Cheydinhal sanctuary wins for shear immersive variety. How many assassination roles let you play the OTHER side of a Who Done It, locked room mystery?
Wall Skyrim dark brotherhood is one of my favorite parts of that game, there is no doubt that the Oblivion quest line is far Superior. The who done it quest is absolutely amazing. My biggest problem with it is having to murder all of the dark brotherhood members instead of getting a sweet quest where you figure out who the traitor is. I remember my first playthrough I legitly felt bad , and when I'm playing a psychopath in a video game it takes a lot for me to feel remorse 😭
Oblivion hands down is so great. I struggle to get thru the DB questline each time because I love all the characters. The purification kills me. Meanwhile I kinda help the Pentitus kill the DB in skyrim once it gets to that point.
Whodunnit is my favorite quest in all of gaming.
The first time I discovered the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion was by compete accident. I had accidentally killed the fisherman outside of the imperial city while fighting a bandit. Like 5 days later I slept on a bedroll in a cave to level up and BOOM, lucien. I was 12. Had no idea they were a thing. Greatest gaming experience of my life
The Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion is 100% better than in Skyrim. In fact most of the faction quests are like the Fighters Guild. I really like the fact how you can actually progress through ranks its not like hey welcome to the Dark Brotherhood 'oh hey I know you joined like yesterday but you can go kill the emperor now' like wtf Skyrim. The only guild questline Skyrim wins is the Thieves Guild and thats more because of Brynjolf than anything (also I love dwemer ruins so Irkngthand as well)
Thanks for making this video series Michael, I love both games for different reasons so it’s awesome to see the breakdown of my favorite quest lines.