Mike H. and I are hoping to help correct some intonation woes above the staff on the two B&H with the addition of Mike Johnson (UK)straight leadpipes (Fletcher style). The report on those results will come later once they arrive and are installed.
I definitely prefer the 15" bell. In fact I nearly always prefer smaller bells on tubas. I suppose that's not surprising since I play euphonium. The only exception I've found is the Wessex British F. That one's too small and just sounds like a euphonium with the 4th valve down.
Thanks. I tested the Wessex British F also, and I liked it, but I agree it sounded a bit like an overgrown euphonium. A larger bell might make it a real winner.
4th valve on the 1st tuba sounds not in tune. 4th valve on the 3rd tuba sound unsure. 2nd tuba sound thin high. All sound nice in the lows. I want one, but I think I would prefer a 4 piston in one hand (front action) or rotary valves.
The Packer is definitely the easiest to play and the most in tune. If you’re looking for a British style Eb tuba, that would be my suggestion. If you were looking for an Eb tuba that was not compensating, the Miraphone Norwegian Star is one of the best ones that I’ve tried. Five front action rotary valves with excellent intonation.
The 377 is the only one that didn't have a flat top Eb. That makes me feel better that my Eb has a flat high range. Haven't found a way to bring it up, either. Seems like a main slide kicker, along with being able to play with the slide out somewhat for the rest of the range, is the only solution. you sound great as usual, Doc.
That’s a problem common among the many variations of Imperial Eb tubas. I hope that gets solved, or at least improve with the installation of a new lead pipe.
yeah I bought a used Wessex eefer and thought it was defective at first. Turns out it is a "faithful" clone of the prototypical boosey/besson EEb, AKA has the same tuning issues. Yuck. Still a nice horn though, pretty sound. But I gotta sell it some day and upgrade to something more point-and-shoot
@@ericpalacios920 You would think that the intonation would be fixed for modern production. I hope you find the right one. I really like my Packer. Response and intonation are really good. I’d like to try the latest Besson models to see how they play, but I’d have to travel long distances (if anyone has some in stock) just to see if they are worth twice the price.
There are things I prefer about the sound of each. I'd probably lean toward the Packer for overall use. I think it would be very interesting though, to have an option for an even more open bell throat without as much pancake. Kind of why I find myself drawn to Rudy Meinl, Kalisons and very interested in the Wessex Chicago Presence (at least the concept, since I've never gotten to play one) in CC tubas and Kaiser BBb tubas.
I play the Packer daily, but I do spend some time on the 15 inch. The 782 is not mine, but it really was nice to play. After installing a new lead pipe soon, I hope to use the 15 inch more.
I'm not sure of the longevity of a Packer compared to an Imp, I have yet to be persuaded that steel valves are a good thing compared to monel. I'd pick the 19" bell Besson, but I'm an English brass band player, so would pick it to blend with the section.
Good comparison video, thanks. How do you assess the 4th valve combination notes, with respect to any added resistance? (I presently have a YEB-381, but used to own a Besson 983, and wasn't a fan of the added resistance below low BBb.) I noticed the 377 bore is 17.30mm (.681"). I'm very curious to try the Wessex "Champion" -- don't know if you've tried that one also? Listed bore: valves 1 to 3 0.69″ (17.5mm), 4th valve 0.73” (18.65mm) ... I wonder if the Champion has any perceived reduction in the resistance of 4th valve notes. Cheers!
There is some resistance in the Packer low range, but not enough to make me want to quit (I play it more than all the others, except for maybe the Hagen). It certainly isn’t a wide open low range like a Miraphone 1291, but I don’t find it difficult at all. I haven’t tried the Champion.
@buffalobillh Thanks. I did find other T.F. posts saying the Champion didn't seem to be as resonant as other choices, and that it wasn't any more open in the low range with a slightly larger 4th valve bore.
981s are super, particularly the earliest ones. Besson seemed keen on taking away strengthening plates in the 1990s. If you find a 1980s 981, give it a try.
@@patricklugo6013 The first time I tried one, I almost bought it on the spot. But I was about to replace my F tuba . Didn’t take me too long after that to save up and buy one. Along with the Miraphone 496, I play the Packer every day.
It depends on how I’m going to use them. The Packer is my favorite to play for general use. I use it for a variety of things, and it is incredibly easy to play. Has a good low range also. The 15” Imperial is the best fit in brass band and for solos. I got a Mike Johnson lead pipe for it, and it made a huge difference. It’s a fun instrument to play. I also like the lacquered 19” Imperial, but it belongs to one of my bandmates. He also got a Mike Johnson lead pipe, and that helped make it a very nice playing instrument!
I have learnt, from chatting to a number of well-informed people, that B&H (Besson) instruments from the late 1970s and through the 1980s were that company's golden era. Later instruments under that mark were manufactured in Germany as its England-based factory was closed. The gauge of material used during the golden years was often a lot thicker, too, impacting on resonance. I, myself, play on a 1982 built Besson 782 (nee Imperial, see th-cam.com/video/KASsK-A4DH0/w-d-xo.html) and prefer this to any tuba manufactured in this century by B&H (Besson).
I have been told the same information about the glory years of the company. Your video is an excellent demonstration of the modifications I hope to make on mine. I did order a straight leadpipe, and it should be shipped out soon. I may do the 4th valve conversion before summer (saving my pennies as well).
Mike H. and I are hoping to help correct some intonation woes above the staff on the two B&H with the addition of Mike Johnson (UK)straight leadpipes (Fletcher style). The report on those results will come later once they arrive and are installed.
I love the sound of the high register on the JP377!
The high range is actually in tune without alternate fingerings. That helps.
You play sooo clear! I would love to hear you play a tuba solo!❤️
Thank you! Check my other videos for the occasional solo.
I definitely prefer the 15" bell. In fact I nearly always prefer smaller bells on tubas. I suppose that's not surprising since I play euphonium. The only exception I've found is the Wessex British F. That one's too small and just sounds like a euphonium with the 4th valve down.
Thanks. I tested the Wessex British F also, and I liked it, but I agree it sounded a bit like an overgrown euphonium. A larger bell might make it a real winner.
4th valve on the 1st tuba sounds not in tune. 4th valve on the 3rd tuba sound unsure. 2nd tuba sound thin high. All sound nice in the lows. I want one, but I think I would prefer a 4 piston in one hand (front action) or rotary valves.
The Packer is definitely the easiest to play and the most in tune. If you’re looking for a British style Eb tuba, that would be my suggestion. If you were looking for an Eb tuba that was not compensating, the Miraphone Norwegian Star is one of the best ones that I’ve tried. Five front action rotary valves with excellent intonation.
The 377 is the only one that didn't have a flat top Eb. That makes me feel better that my Eb has a flat high range. Haven't found a way to bring it up, either. Seems like a main slide kicker, along with being able to play with the slide out somewhat for the rest of the range, is the only solution.
you sound great as usual, Doc.
That’s a problem common among the many variations of Imperial Eb tubas. I hope that gets solved, or at least improve with the installation of a new lead pipe.
yeah I bought a used Wessex eefer and thought it was defective at first. Turns out it is a "faithful" clone of the prototypical boosey/besson EEb, AKA has the same tuning issues. Yuck. Still a nice horn though, pretty sound. But I gotta sell it some day and upgrade to something more point-and-shoot
@@ericpalacios920
You would think that the intonation would be fixed for modern production. I hope you find the right one. I really like my Packer. Response and intonation are really good.
I’d like to try the latest Besson models to see how they play, but I’d have to travel long distances (if anyone has some in stock) just to see if they are worth twice the price.
There are things I prefer about the sound of each. I'd probably lean toward the Packer for overall use. I think it would be very interesting though, to have an option for an even more open bell throat without as much pancake. Kind of why I find myself drawn to Rudy Meinl, Kalisons and very interested in the Wessex Chicago Presence (at least the concept, since I've never gotten to play one) in CC tubas and Kaiser BBb tubas.
Yeah I have really liked the playing examples I've heard with the Chicago Presence. Medium bells with giant throats are cool.
I play the Packer daily, but I do spend some time on the 15 inch. The 782 is not mine, but it really was nice to play. After installing a new lead pipe soon, I hope to use the 15 inch more.
I'm not sure of the longevity of a Packer compared to an Imp, I have yet to be persuaded that steel valves are a good thing compared to monel. I'd pick the 19" bell Besson, but I'm an English brass band player, so would pick it to blend with the section.
Good comparison video, thanks. How do you assess the 4th valve combination notes, with respect to any added resistance? (I presently have a YEB-381, but used to own a Besson 983, and wasn't a fan of the added resistance below low BBb.) I noticed the 377 bore is 17.30mm (.681"). I'm very curious to try the Wessex "Champion" -- don't know if you've tried that one also? Listed bore: valves 1 to 3 0.69″ (17.5mm), 4th valve 0.73” (18.65mm) ... I wonder if the Champion has any perceived reduction in the resistance of 4th valve notes. Cheers!
There is some resistance in the Packer low range, but not enough to make me want to quit (I play it more than all the others, except for maybe the Hagen). It certainly isn’t a wide open low range like a Miraphone 1291, but I don’t find it difficult at all. I haven’t tried the Champion.
@buffalobillh Thanks. I did find other T.F. posts saying the Champion didn't seem to be as resonant as other choices, and that it wasn't any more open in the low range with a slightly larger 4th valve bore.
I love the sound of those old 15” tubas. I have one myself, and despite its quirks I love playing it.
They have a sweet, clear sound. I agree with you- they are a joy to play!
Hands down I love that 15" bell Imperial. Such a nice sounding horn with a ton of tone and clarity.
I agree! It really does have a special sound.
I like the b&h 15 bell the most. Nice warm and even sound through all the register. I wonder the comparison with the Besson 981/982.
I would love to compare the Besson models. Unfortunately, they are rare in this area.
981s are super, particularly the earliest ones. Besson seemed keen on taking away strengthening plates in the 1990s. If you find a 1980s 981, give it a try.
I like the packer. The notes come out clearly ! It is a compromise of the other Two
Thanks, Patrick! The Packer is definitely the easiest to play. It’s hard to put down!
@@buffalobillhit sounds Amazing. It really stands out.
@@patricklugo6013
The first time I tried one, I almost bought it on the spot. But I was about to replace my F tuba . Didn’t take me too long after that to save up and buy one. Along with the Miraphone 496, I play the Packer every day.
Tuning in the higher register of the JP is much better, as others have said. It's night and day.
I added a leadpipe from Mike Johnson to the 15”, and the intonation improved tremendously. The JP is very good in all respects, especially intonation.
Hi Buffalo, do you prefer one over the others, and if so, which one?
It depends on how I’m going to use them. The Packer is my favorite to play for general use. I use it for a variety of things, and it is incredibly easy to play. Has a good low range also. The 15” Imperial is the best fit in brass band and for solos. I got a Mike Johnson lead pipe for it, and it made a huge difference. It’s a fun instrument to play. I also like the lacquered 19” Imperial, but it belongs to one of my bandmates. He also got a Mike Johnson lead pipe, and that helped make it a very nice playing instrument!
I have learnt, from chatting to a number of well-informed people, that B&H (Besson) instruments from the late 1970s and through the 1980s were that company's golden era. Later instruments under that mark were manufactured in Germany as its England-based factory was closed. The gauge of material used during the golden years was often a lot thicker, too, impacting on resonance. I, myself, play on a 1982 built Besson 782 (nee Imperial, see th-cam.com/video/KASsK-A4DH0/w-d-xo.html) and prefer this to any tuba manufactured in this century by B&H (Besson).
I have been told the same information about the glory years of the company. Your video is an excellent demonstration of the modifications I hope to make on mine. I did order a straight leadpipe, and it should be shipped out soon. I may do the 4th valve conversion before summer (saving my pennies as well).
First round knockout in favor of the packer
It’s hard to deny what great horns they are, isn’t it?
15" B&H Bass all the way.
They really are good instruments!