when he's talking about the lock vs. safe scenario, it should also be mentioned that nowadays police officers can't force you to enter your PIN to unlock your smartphone, but they can force you to press your finger on the fingerprint reader to unlock it
But if you shut your mouth and don't say whether the phone is yours or not, they cannot compel you to give a statement whether the phone is your or not. This means that they don't have any reasonable suspicion that the phone is yours. He explains this later on in the video. He explains it at the part on the border patrolman requesting to view the laptop; @ 26:00
Plus it also is NOT correct that they cannot force you to enter your PIN to unlock your phone. It requires a demonstration of probable cause to get a Court order to compel you to produce the PIN. That probable cause means they have to demonstrate via corroborating evidence what they expect to find and how they know it's there. In other words, the "foregone conclusion" exception. At the same time, use and derivative use immunity still applies, meaning that you produced the pin cannot be used to demonstrate the phone is yours and that the evidence they're seeking is also yours. It has to be independently authenticated.
Pretty much the same thing as drug testing in a workplace. Most employers know 3/4 of their workers smoke recreationally but will never do anything unless it's during work. I have heard stories of employees being completely randomly drug tested because the company wanted to fire them (didn't get along) and couldn't think of something they did to deserve being fired.
When you sign the thing on the back of your drivers license, it says that you understand driving is not a right and you can lose the privilege. That also applies to being pulled over. Police can ask to search politely, ask to see your drivers license, do a breathalyzer, etc etc. But they also have the right to search your car if they have reasonable suspicion. It's almost never done because most police don't care about your weed, but if you're acting really weird they don't need a warrant.
I'd like to add. Im not sure about the US rules on cryptokeys but i have heard that you dont have to hand them over but for anyone here in the UK you can be forced to hand over the key or face very long prison charges
His section on the 5th amendment would seem to contradict that. If you've encrypted something, you would obviously know the key or where the key is stored, so they can force you to release it.
So if I encrypt my data, back it up somewhere, not write down the decryption key, remember it and claim to having not remembered it, is my data safe now?
you don't even have to claim you don't remember it. It's a product of the mind and they really can't make you give it up because to do so would be self-incriminating.
Consent is a bigger, watch your words. Younger naive me says "I don't have my liscense on me but it is valid" Cop "can I check" How would you respond? Kinda weird to ask you if he can use his computer huh? *because he wasn't, he was asking me if he could check if I had it on me* So after a confused "yes" I am tipped out of the car and searched.
10100rsn I would think that once it is in international territories then it is up to their government to do something about the data. If the country doesn't like to affiliate with us then they probably will not help us at all.
International airports have international zones for individuals who have not cleared customs and immigration of the hosting country. These zones are protected by a different set of rules and laws. It could invalidate the protections on traffic within the US if information was routed through servers at say, LAX or some other international airport or 'zone'. This is a legal grey area that nobody talks about. The zone is in US control but considered an international zone that falls under slightly different laws. Snowden confirmed this...
So he didn't answer the most important question... the question he promised to answer: WHAT SHOULD I DO IF I'M ASKED BY A CUSTOMS OFFICER TO OPEN MY LAPTOP'S PICTURES FOLDER?!?!?
@@ertonyrn Wrong. The correct answer is "I do not speak with law enforcement." and if being detained, demand that you're able to contact a criminal defence attorney.
@@pieterwillembotha6719 what don’t you understand? you know there is a difference between being detained and being arrested, correct? You have not right to talk to anyone while being detained… It is not until you are arrested that you have the right to speak to an attorney. If you are going to go posting on youtube like an internet law expert, at least know what you’re talking about.
After-talk QAs are usually not recorded at Defcon (or most other cons) because the expectation of privacy is different from a formal presentation for a convention
He was asking about the example the speaker gave earlier about sending a signal outside of, and then back into, the country. He mistakenly thought that example was from a real case.
Depends on the BIOS, some will retain it. Certain manufacturers will no longer even reset if you rip the battery out, though instead of security their motivation is nulling the used market.
What if icustomized my car with keypad locks that auto-locks after exiting? Can cops search my car? What if they get a dog out and it 'signals'?(btw dogs always 'signal' because its the cop that says if the dog really signaled and nothing is stopping them from lieing. So in a way you have no choice it a cop wants to search you)
@@ertonyrn He's not implying that the dog is being commanded to "signal", as he put it... he's implying that it doesn't matter if the dog does or not, nothing is stopping the cop from lying about it and getting away with it.
All the "snappypatter" where he keeps jumping off topic is really, really distracting. I would have been very interested in watching this to the end, but his style of presentation is just too vaudevillian. 12 minutes was all I can take.
Oh look! The lawyer doesn't admit that a written instrument only applies to those that sign the written instrument and the only signatures on the written instrument he's talking about are witnesses; therefore the 200+ year old written instrument doesn't apply to anyone, nor anyone that wasn't alive when it was written. But don't expect him to admit that. He would have to give up his little esquire title if he did. That B.A.R. (British Attorney Registry) must be quite important to aid and abet those that continue to subjugate a whole nation.
when he's talking about the lock vs. safe scenario, it should also be mentioned that nowadays police officers can't force you to enter your PIN to unlock your smartphone, but they can force you to press your finger on the fingerprint reader to unlock it
But if you shut your mouth and don't say whether the phone is yours or not, they cannot compel you to give a statement whether the phone is your or not. This means that they don't have any reasonable suspicion that the phone is yours. He explains this later on in the video. He explains it at the part on the border patrolman requesting to view the laptop; @ 26:00
Actually they cannot. They do it anyway but they cannot.
Plus it also is NOT correct that they cannot force you to enter your PIN to unlock your phone. It requires a demonstration of probable cause to get a Court order to compel you to produce the PIN. That probable cause means they have to demonstrate via corroborating evidence what they expect to find and how they know it's there. In other words, the "foregone conclusion" exception. At the same time, use and derivative use immunity still applies, meaning that you produced the pin cannot be used to demonstrate the phone is yours and that the evidence they're seeking is also yours. It has to be independently authenticated.
That's the case in the US, but not the UK or South Africa and many other Common Wealth/shit hole countries.
No they can't, as of Jan 2019
Did anyone record the Q&A session after this talk? I feel like we're missing a lot of important information.
Pretty much the same thing as drug testing in a workplace. Most employers know 3/4 of their workers smoke recreationally but will never do anything unless it's during work. I have heard stories of employees being completely randomly drug tested because the company wanted to fire them (didn't get along) and couldn't think of something they did to deserve being fired.
So eventually when we're able to crack older encryption schemes, cold cases will get re-opened
gotta use a VERY LONG encryption password with symbols and odd characters.
When you sign the thing on the back of your drivers license, it says that you understand driving is not a right and you can lose the privilege. That also applies to being pulled over. Police can ask to search politely, ask to see your drivers license, do a breathalyzer, etc etc. But they also have the right to search your car if they have reasonable suspicion. It's almost never done because most police don't care about your weed, but if you're acting really weird they don't need a warrant.
Compelled is to bring about (something) by the use of force or pressure.
Always Interesting !
2011 was so much a differnt dream
“You were searched, but Nazis” Good job TH-cam auto-translated english captions.
I'd like to add. Im not sure about the US rules on cryptokeys but i have heard that you dont have to hand them over but for anyone here in the UK you can be forced to hand over the key or face very long prison charges
His section on the 5th amendment would seem to contradict that. If you've encrypted something, you would obviously know the key or where the key is stored, so they can force you to release it.
David Cullum they cant, because its intellectual property. Original poster also stated he lived in UK so the "5th amendment" means horseshit
What if you just simply forgot that key and you cannot produce it when ordered by court?
@@aeonikus1 there is a provision in the law for that.
Is there a video for his "Talk in 106" that he keeps talking about?
I think that was just a Q&A, which I don't think were recorded. Maybe try looking for Defcon 17 Q&As?
So if I encrypt my data, back it up somewhere, not write down the decryption key, remember it and claim to having not remembered it, is my data safe now?
you don't even have to claim you don't remember it. It's a product of the mind and they really can't make you give it up because to do so would be self-incriminating.
Consent is a bigger, watch your words. Younger naive me says "I don't have my liscense on me but it is valid"
Cop "can I check"
How would you respond? Kinda weird to ask you if he can use his computer huh? *because he wasn't, he was asking me if he could check if I had it on me*
So after a confused "yes" I am tipped out of the car and searched.
So, what if the data originated from the US and was routed through a server in an international territory like LAX ?
10100rsn I would think that once it is in international territories then it is up to their government to do something about the data. If the country doesn't like to affiliate with us then they probably will not help us at all.
International airports have international zones for individuals who have not cleared customs and immigration of the hosting country. These zones are protected by a different set of rules and laws. It could invalidate the protections on traffic within the US if information was routed through servers at say, LAX or some other international airport or 'zone'. This is a legal grey area that nobody talks about. The zone is in US control but considered an international zone that falls under slightly different laws. Snowden confirmed this...
Oh wow good to know I haven't seen the snowden interview yet
Good video.
i think it's skydog saying "dude that's not my weed"
So he didn't answer the most important question... the question he promised to answer: WHAT SHOULD I DO IF I'M ASKED BY A CUSTOMS OFFICER TO OPEN MY LAPTOP'S PICTURES FOLDER?!?!?
supermaucat "I don't have a picture folder".
@@ertonyrn Wrong. The correct answer is "I do not speak with law enforcement." and if being detained, demand that you're able to contact a criminal defence attorney.
@@pieterwillembotha6719 you dont have the right to speak to a defenSe attorney while being detained. only once arrested 👍🏻
@@ertonyrn Oh? Enlighten me further if you would.
@@pieterwillembotha6719 what don’t you understand? you know there is a difference between being detained and being arrested, correct? You have not right to talk to anyone while being detained… It is not until you are arrested that you have the right to speak to an attorney. If you are going to go posting on youtube like an internet law expert, at least know what you’re talking about.
Saying President Obama is a constitutional scholar is like saying you studied abroad when all you did was walk into the louvre once while on vacation.
Michael Bagley AOC has an Economics degree.
Being knowledgeable and being evil are independent concepts.
i think i am one of the only people on the planet that didn't have any trouble with winme.
Got to love how we ignored the warrant part you got probable cause they will search your ass who needs a warrant
where is the rest of the presentation? or others?
After-talk QAs are usually not recorded at Defcon (or most other cons) because the expectation of privacy is different from a formal presentation for a convention
If you are flying from the USA ... passing over a foreign country ... can they search or seize your laptop while above the foreign country?
wait, what did the guy ask as the last question?!
He was asking about the example the speaker gave earlier about sending a signal outside of, and then back into, the country.
He mistakenly thought that example was from a real case.
Can you dump a jailbroken iphone with SSH password protect?
They can just reflash your bios, Iforgot my password the other day.
Depends on the BIOS, some will retain it. Certain manufacturers will no longer even reset if you rip the battery out, though instead of security their motivation is nulling the used market.
NEEDED INFO ....wait wait "That will all be covered in another room after" FAIL
What if icustomized my car with keypad locks that auto-locks after exiting? Can cops search my car? What if they get a dog out and it 'signals'?(btw dogs always 'signal' because its the cop that says if the dog really signaled and nothing is stopping them from lieing. So in a way you have no choice it a cop wants to search you)
Beefieeee best friend is a k9.. that's definitely not true. They aren't even 'taught" commands to "indicate" falsely. Urban Legend.
@@ertonyrn He's not implying that the dog is being commanded to "signal", as he put it... he's implying that it doesn't matter if the dog does or not, nothing is stopping the cop from lying about it and getting away with it.
had a 32gb android destroyed because encryption
This must be da drunken audience, he said no more questions
14:55-32:30 Two words, Murphy's Law. 35:35 How about don't have anything illegal?
millennium doesn't play MP3's without "stuttering" Win 2000 client edition does! Interesting
Stopped at 4:38. Can't take this seriously after that.
>i wrote azerus
All the "snappypatter" where he keeps jumping off topic is really, really distracting. I would have been very interested in watching this to the end, but his style of presentation is just too vaudevillian. 12 minutes was all I can take.
Did he seriously mention obama and the constitution in the same sentence?
FEDCON ….. NOCFED
FED CON …. NOC FED
FED C ON ... NO C FED
No see FED?
he is not cool
no constructive criticism... sorry
Oh look! The lawyer doesn't admit that a written instrument only applies to those that sign the written instrument and the only signatures on the written instrument he's talking about are witnesses; therefore the 200+ year old written instrument doesn't apply to anyone, nor anyone that wasn't alive when it was written. But don't expect him to admit that. He would have to give up his little esquire title if he did. That B.A.R. (British Attorney Registry) must be quite important to aid and abet those that continue to subjugate a whole nation.