I remember the Friendship, sheep shed, commercial row from the 1970s with all the vendors and their parts. It was a magical place that did not shut down after dark. The vendors would eat dinner in their booth and stay open till about 10:00pm, talking to each other, sharing stories, talking to some of those men Bob mentions. It might still be that way but I have not camped at Friendship in 40 years.
That was so neat. What craftsmanship. Thank you for taking the time to explain all that, sir. And thank you to "I Love Muzzleloading" for filming and putting this together.
I bought a Thompson Center Hawken Renegade 54 cal. there in September. I've got a few revolvers but this is my first rifle. I can't leave it alone. I shoot often and my wife is wanting her own now. It's not fancy, but good for my wants and needs. Thanks for the video.
My wife and I have been shooting black powder for years. And it happened the same way for me. I took her with me a few times to dust of my 54 ….and it wasn’t very long after that and she wanted a Hawkins 50 kit..been love ever since.
Nice video! A very good friend of mine used to collect original Hawken rifles. He passed away some time back. Don Stith was his name, your video caused me to remember him. He was a fine gentleman.
I bought the book The Hawken Rifle from NMLRA. I really enjoyed it. I have 2 Investarms Hawkens from their factory that I shoot every summer. Thanks for your video.
THANKS FOR THIS VIDEO. I ENJOYED VERY MUCH! I'VE BEEN SHOOTING BLACKPOWDER RIFLES FOR OVER 40 YEARS. I STARTED WITH A CVA, THEN WENT TO THOMPSON CENTER, THEN BUILT A TENNESSEE RIFLE FLINTLOCK WITH PARTS FROM TRACK OF THE WOLF HERE IN MINNESOTA. ALL 54 CAL. AND ALL GREAT SHOOTERS!
What a downright enjoyable video! Everything that is right in the world bubbles forth from Mr. Woodfills enthusiasm. Lucky young man to tote that iron around this fall!
Absolutely fantastic. Been trying to learn as much as I can about proper Hawken builds and this information is extremely helpful. Another great video, thanks Ethan!
WOW! Thank you for preserving this for us. Such a wealth of knowledge and skill. As soon as I saw that rifle I knew it wasn't "modern." He does such a good job of explaining all the nuances. What a joy to watch!
This is a great idea for future videos. You should try to get more interviews of these craftsmen to save for the future. This was an amazing overview of the great Hawkens. Thanks!
I have never made it to the Friendship Shoot. But as a young man, I did get to meet Roland Harper. As the story went, there was a match named after him there at the Friendship matches. Hope you got to meet him before he retired to Arizona. He was a heck of a shooter and a wealth of information for all of us out here in the west hungry for knowledge of anything BLACK POWDER !
This is awesome. I wish you would do one on a full stock earlier version of a Hawken which could have been the possible flintlock first Hawkens of myth. I wonder what finish the Hawkens really used? Was it a linseed oil type finish or something else? I read somewhere the German Gunsmiths of PA used a kind of varnish, like a violin varnish, on their rifles in the 1700a.
That Investarms Hawken reminds me a lot of the old CVA Mountain Rifle. They look very much the same, the barrel is the same length, etc. The sights are a little different, but everything else appears to be the same.
Mr. Woodfill, you did a great job on the Gemmer Hawken. I have one also, and you showed me things I need to do. I loved the presentation. Well done sir. An Inspiration for sure.
The stocks on these are new growth European Beech (the old ones yield wood that's even more knurled and figured than the best old growth red maple) . Its light like maple so Aquafortis should work well on it to get that proper deep red/ brown color.
Yes sir. those guys from back in the day at the Friendship meets really rescued the nearly lost art of Muzzleloading here in the US. One thing, What Mr. Woodfill is talking about with the metal finish is called "rust bluing", where you take the metal from browning and then boil it. Metal prep is key for this process, it has to be near perfect, and will show any imperfections like a neon sign. "Fire Bluing" is just that, flame bluing, and is a very precise operation involving raising the metal to an exact temp for a specified time. It's not for the fait of heart, and is best used on small bits like screw heads The grey finish he's talking about is what case hardening looks like after it's been exposed to oxidation (All steel is slowly oxidizing over time) and handling for years. Hawken rifles would have actual case hardened colors on the parts he mentions when new, but after 100+ years and frequent hard use, it would turn gray like he says. And yes, they leave FAR too much wood on the kits, but I'm sure it reduces the amount of spoiled stocks in production
I have a InvestArms .54 Hawken. Got it in 1995. It shoots fine , heavy as a fence post , but overall not bad. Only hang up is in the barrel by the nipple there is a " Fence" per say , with Pyrodex it will " hiccup" sometimes unless real black powder is used.
I remember The Old Days when Turner Kirkland ( Early days of D-G-W )- The Plinker Flint, Or Percussion Kits - Parts were Reasonably Priced- Turner wanted to Promote the Sport, And it's done by NOT SCALPING THE CONSUMER ---
I’ve always wanted one with a tiger maple stock & polished brass trigger guard, butt plate & patch box, mainly for display. Have a 50 cal. Hunter cap lock now in the drab hunter model. A Great Plains 50 cal. is also on my list of wanted.
I knew that high quality custom made Hawkens can be expensive but I didn’t know that they can be sold as the same price as a .50 BMG, I learned something new.
I put a Hawkin kit together in 77, I was 16. Still use it. Question is, like in the war of 1812, AR or the Alamo. I know they made a muzzle loader that was like a single barrel shotgun. Most farmers used them for deer, birds etc. It shot buck and ball, birdshot etc. Question is, in the fighting, did militia use muskets or rifles? I know Morgan had riflemen. Second part of the question is after you fire the first shot on a rifle, if you do not patch the next ball it will be easier to load, but your round will drop about a foot, or more at 50 yards. What did they do in attacks? Thank you for your answer
My Dad had a rifle ordered from Homer Dangler in 2017 or there about before declining health caused my dad to cancel the order. My dad passed in early 2018 and I heard that Homer had passed recently as well. We camped right next to Homer and Fran for years near the shotgun range in Friendship. Rip pop and Homer.
Just when I thought I couldn't like this guy any more he says "its just like the difference... you know... there's beautiful women and there's really beautiful women. those lines are important." 🤣
Yup. The lines for the win. Beauty matters. To my eyes, the other factory offerings from CVA, TC, Traditions, etc, look too straight. Not enough drop at the comb, which may be the reason those things have such ugly, tall rear sights. They're just not "right." I think they are saving money on the width of the wood blanks. I still have my 1980 Lyman GPR - which I suspect is the Gemmer in the video, but dressed up with german silver. Very good factory rifle.
The scene where Jeremiah was drawing a bead on a Elk with Bear Claws giving him advice on staying behind the horse....Well the point I'm getting to....the rifle in Jeremiah's hands DID NOT RESEMBLE A HAWKEN
i am tottaly in love with this rifle , since i live in europe and it is the only option we have to get a fire arme to defend ourselves without going trough burocratic shit ! sadly !
I use to have a TC - ST Louis Hawkins and it was in .45 cal and I would love to have a nother one but they want to much for them even in a kit and they no longer come in .45 cal it's all F-ing .50 cal who makes the cheapest kit say around 300 to 400 dollars because that's affordable for Kitchener 2-3-4 15000 dollars not worth it for me who makes the more affordable ones
I was very glad to see the article in Muzzleblasts (Sep 2022) about this rifle, and this video really helps to expand on the article. Anyone interested in Hawken rifles should go to the Hawken Classic near St Louis, MO in 2023, 2024 or 2025 and see many original Hawken rifles. I also bought Bob’s book from the NMLRA and read it from cover to cover. My two Lyman Great Plains Rifles need a facelift following this recipe. Will this rifle be displayed at the Hawken Classic 2023? Thank you for making this video.
I really love all of your knowledge of Hawken rifles. Do you ever sell any of your remake touches? I am looking for something more authentic Hawkens rifle. I have never done any work on a kit gun. Where are you located?
I appreciate You posting this video ! I'm interested in buying a Gemmer rifle . I'm not able to build a kit gun though . I don't even know what cal. to buy either . What would be the most useful cal. to hunt the most game ( different ) ? Is there a practical and legal cal. to hunt anything from squirrels to deer ? BTW ! ... I'm going to be going into MY second Childhood in a little while ( what would it cost for You to build ME one of those babies )
Great videos a lot of good info It’s amazing to me how sharp that rifle is Would be great idea to have some templates that a beginner can get ahold of to get the correct lines when carving the stock
Very informative, but what a huge PITA. I’m a professional woodworker and this still sounds like way too much trouble, and I don’t have an authentic Hawken to work from. Plus you can’t even find a kit, caps, or powder these days!
You're one ( if not the THE most ) knowledgeable Person on this subject I've come across ! Thank You for the information . Although I'm no longer a Youth ( You know this when People start saying that You're " X " amount of years " YOUNG " on Your Birthday ) ! I said that to say this ; I want to become a Beginner in this black powder rifle shooting world . I don't have a rifle at this time ( or enough knowledge to be safe , both to Myself and Others ) . I'm going to HAVE to buy a used and working ( and accurate ) rifle with a short barrel . I'm not much into " wall hangers " I'm more into " go BANGERS " . I'm not able to afford a very expensive rifle either ! SO I guess that leaves Me between a rock & a hard place .
Grew up in So Cal had Dicks Black Powder Gun Works a few 100 yrds down MY Street! Rode My Bike there in 1976 and bought an 1858 KIT at 12 yrs old still have it! put it next to ANY Adult's! I too think well cared for tools look Best! new tools make me suspicious. GOOD JOB! Looks Great! I'm IN! I LIKE what you did with this Kit! these new kits are to rich for me and not enough "Me" in the kits. of late I have Re Built reproductions! I even have used my DYI fire blue quench for a wood stain. I want to be ready for any grand kids whom maybe Interested some day?
I have a Lyman Great Plains rifle in 54 cal it is such a pleasure to shoot and very accurate, and heavy. I’ve taken a few deer with it, but I prefer my short barreled 50 , it is a great brush gun and I still get 2 in grouping’s at 50 yards . I love your tutorials I have learned a lot thanks.
I look at a few things.. IS that wood. Kild dried.., it’s light.. brittle.. looks good.. wouldn’t pay 2 cents for all that labor.. dude.. it’s immediately a rejection.. all the holding power is cooked away.. and everything you say until you under stand.,
Great video. Taught me everything I've done wrong on my 4 Hawken builds LOL.
I remember the Friendship, sheep shed, commercial row from the 1970s with all the vendors and their parts. It was a magical place that did not shut down after dark. The vendors would eat dinner in their booth and stay open till about 10:00pm, talking to each other, sharing stories, talking to some of those men Bob mentions. It might still be that way but I have not camped at Friendship in 40 years.
That was so neat. What craftsmanship. Thank you for taking the time to explain all that, sir. And thank you to "I Love Muzzleloading" for filming and putting this together.
I bought a Thompson Center Hawken Renegade 54 cal. there in September. I've got a few revolvers but this is my first rifle. I can't leave it alone. I shoot often and my wife is wanting her own now. It's not fancy, but good for my wants and needs.
Thanks for the video.
My wife and I have been shooting black powder for years. And it happened the same way for me. I took her with me a few times to dust of my 54 ….and it wasn’t very long after that and she wanted a Hawkins 50 kit..been love ever since.
I have quite a few T/C Renegade Rifles and they out shoot the custom made one at the matches. Maybe the shooter has something to do with that as well.
Nice video! A very good friend of mine used to collect original Hawken rifles. He passed away some time back. Don Stith was his name, your video caused me to remember him. He was a fine gentleman.
I bought the book The Hawken Rifle from NMLRA. I really enjoyed it. I have 2 Investarms Hawkens from their factory that I shoot every summer. Thanks for your video.
THANKS FOR THIS VIDEO. I ENJOYED VERY MUCH! I'VE BEEN SHOOTING BLACKPOWDER RIFLES FOR OVER 40 YEARS. I STARTED WITH A CVA, THEN WENT TO THOMPSON CENTER, THEN BUILT A TENNESSEE RIFLE FLINTLOCK WITH PARTS FROM TRACK OF THE WOLF HERE IN MINNESOTA. ALL 54 CAL. AND ALL GREAT SHOOTERS!
What a downright enjoyable video! Everything that is right in the world bubbles forth from Mr. Woodfills enthusiasm. Lucky young man to tote that iron around this fall!
Absolutely fantastic. Been trying to learn as much as I can about proper Hawken builds and this information is extremely helpful. Another great video, thanks Ethan!
WOW! Thank you for preserving this for us. Such a wealth of knowledge and skill. As soon as I saw that rifle I knew it wasn't "modern." He does such a good job of explaining all the nuances. What a joy to watch!
Wish I can see a video on how to tune both percussion locks and flintlock locks.
This is a great idea for future videos. You should try to get more interviews of these craftsmen to save for the future. This was an amazing overview of the great Hawkens. Thanks!
I have never made it to the Friendship Shoot. But as a young man, I did get to meet Roland Harper. As the story went, there was a match named after him there at the Friendship matches. Hope you got to meet him before he retired to Arizona. He was a heck of a shooter and a wealth of information for all of us out here in the west hungry for knowledge of anything BLACK POWDER !
This is awesome. I wish you would do one on a full stock earlier version of a Hawken which could have been the possible flintlock first Hawkens of myth. I wonder what finish the Hawkens really used? Was it a linseed oil type finish or something else? I read somewhere the German Gunsmiths of PA used a kind of varnish, like a violin varnish, on their rifles in the 1700a.
My wife bought a Hawkins 54 cal kit for me in 73 , I still have it ..the only thing I did since it was new was to have the barrel re blued .
That’s lovely!
Thank you, this was fantastic. I'm grateful to see people willing to share their knowledge with others. I'm saving this for future reference.
Thanks, I found this very interesting.
I grabbed my Mike Adcock Hawken and compared it to your discussion of originals.
That Investarms Hawken reminds me a lot of the old CVA Mountain Rifle. They look very much the same, the barrel is the same length, etc. The sights are a little different, but everything else appears to be the same.
Mr. Woodfill, you did a great job on the Gemmer Hawken. I have one also, and you showed me things I need to do. I loved the presentation. Well done sir. An Inspiration for sure.
That is the best muzzleloading video I can recall ever watching. So plainly informative.
Great video ! VERY interesting information Ethan, thank you for sharing this!
The stocks on these are new growth European Beech (the old ones yield wood that's even more knurled and figured than the best old growth red maple) . Its light like maple so Aquafortis should work well on it to get that proper deep red/ brown color.
Great interview. Thanks for bringing this to us.
Thanks for watching Snapper!
Yes sir. those guys from back in the day at the Friendship meets really rescued the nearly lost art of Muzzleloading here in the US. One thing, What Mr. Woodfill is talking about with the metal finish is called "rust bluing", where you take the metal from browning and then boil it. Metal prep is key for this process, it has to be near perfect, and will show any imperfections like a neon sign. "Fire Bluing" is just that, flame bluing, and is a very precise operation involving raising the metal to an exact temp for a specified time. It's not for the fait of heart, and is best used on small bits like screw heads The grey finish he's talking about is what case hardening looks like after it's been exposed to oxidation (All steel is slowly oxidizing over time) and handling for years. Hawken rifles would have actual case hardened colors on the parts he mentions when new, but after 100+ years and frequent hard use, it would turn gray like he says. And yes, they leave FAR too much wood on the kits, but I'm sure it reduces the amount of spoiled stocks in production
Particularly enjoyed your little shop helper.
A very enjoyable and informative video. Thank you so very much, Sir!
I have a InvestArms .54 Hawken. Got it in 1995. It shoots fine , heavy as a fence post , but overall not bad. Only hang up is in the barrel by the nipple there is a " Fence" per say , with Pyrodex it will " hiccup" sometimes unless real black powder is used.
I remember The Old Days when Turner Kirkland ( Early days of D-G-W )- The Plinker Flint, Or Percussion Kits - Parts were Reasonably Priced- Turner wanted to Promote the Sport, And it's done by NOT SCALPING THE CONSUMER ---
I’ve always wanted one with a tiger maple stock & polished brass trigger guard, butt plate & patch box, mainly for display. Have a 50 cal. Hunter cap lock now in the drab hunter model.
A Great Plains 50 cal. is also on my list of wanted.
Aw now I have to get a Gemmer Hawken kit too! Where does this hobby end!?!?
What a vast array of knowledge. Thank you sir.
Bob is one of the best!
Beautiful job.
I ordered your book am really enjoying it,learning a lot
This is such a cool little spotlight
I knew that high quality custom made Hawkens can be expensive but I didn’t know that they can be sold as the same price as a .50 BMG, I learned something new.
Oh yes, they are quite valuable.
A fantastic video! Are there any books that can be used as reference material for building a Hawken Rifle?
I enjoyed this video. I have an Ithaca Hawkin that I dearly love. It will go with me till I turn my toes up in a pine box.
Right on!
Jim has a kit in the works
Just so everyone knows this. The Missouri Historical Society has the Hawkins Bros. Rifling machine. In ST Louis Mo.
I put a Hawkin kit together in 77, I was 16. Still use it. Question is, like in the war of 1812, AR or the Alamo. I know they made a muzzle loader that was like a single barrel shotgun. Most farmers used them for deer, birds etc. It shot buck and ball, birdshot etc. Question is, in the fighting, did militia use muskets or rifles? I know Morgan had riflemen. Second part of the question is after you fire the first shot on a rifle, if you do not patch the next ball it will be easier to load, but your round will drop about a foot, or more at 50 yards. What did they do in attacks? Thank you for your answer
Looks like my Pedersoli River Hawken is a true (or at least very close) rendition of an original Hawken.
Wealth of knowledge right there
My Dad had a rifle ordered from Homer Dangler in 2017 or there about before declining health caused my dad to cancel the order. My dad passed in early 2018 and I heard that Homer had passed recently as well. We camped right next to Homer and Fran for years near the shotgun range in Friendship. Rip pop and Homer.
Wow Jeff, that's quite the story. Dangler was and still is an icon in the sport. May they all rest in peace!
Thank you
Just when I thought I couldn't like this guy any more he says "its just like the difference... you know... there's beautiful women and there's really beautiful women. those lines are important." 🤣
Entertaining and informative! I just happened upon this vid,
Glad it was helpful!
Are you familiar with the Henry Leman rifle?
Great video!
fantastic video 👍👍
Done subscribed! 1972 Jeremiah Johnson changed my life!
Welcome!
Great video.
Legend! 🐐
What's the length of pull
i hope he gets a big elk very nice gun wow
Do you build a 58 caliber Hawkins I'd be interested in that
How does the TC 50 cal. Hawken stack up?.....curious....
Miracles happen every day ! 👍👍👍😎. It’s great hearing him talk about them!
what a great video
You are so kind! Thanks for watching
Yup. The lines for the win. Beauty matters. To my eyes, the other factory offerings from CVA, TC, Traditions, etc, look too straight. Not enough drop at the comb, which may be the reason those things have such ugly, tall rear sights. They're just not "right." I think they are saving money on the width of the wood blanks.
I still have my 1980 Lyman GPR - which I suspect is the Gemmer in the video, but dressed up with german silver. Very good factory rifle.
The scene where Jeremiah was drawing a bead on a Elk with Bear Claws giving him advice on staying behind the horse....Well the point I'm getting to....the rifle in Jeremiah's hands
DID NOT RESEMBLE A HAWKEN
i am tottaly in love with this rifle , since i live in europe and it is the only option we have to get a fire arme to defend ourselves without going trough burocratic shit ! sadly !
Como compro uma dessa
ราคาเท่าไหร่ครับ
I got tired listening to how wonderful the device is, so I cut it off. Nothing needs that much introduction.
Yes are no damn it
👍👍
If you bought a kilber rifle kit you cant go wrong
Very interesting video thank you for all the great information.
Glad you enjoyed it
(✨✨✨...🤠🧠💓🦅I) love muzzleload too , but my country does noy allow people to use gun.🤔
That stinks
Looks like they went out of production.
The Hawken Brothers were NOT from Switzerland. They were born in Maryland.
I use to have a TC - ST Louis Hawkins and it was in .45 cal and I would love to have a nother one but they want to much for them even in a kit and they no longer come in .45 cal it's all F-ing .50 cal who makes the cheapest kit say around 300 to 400 dollars because that's affordable for Kitchener 2-3-4 15000 dollars not worth it for me who makes the more affordable ones
I was very glad to see the article in Muzzleblasts (Sep 2022) about this rifle, and this video really helps to expand on the article. Anyone interested in Hawken rifles should go to the Hawken Classic near St Louis, MO in 2023, 2024 or 2025 and see many original Hawken rifles. I also bought Bob’s book from the NMLRA and read it from cover to cover. My two Lyman Great Plains Rifles need a facelift following this recipe. Will this rifle be displayed at the Hawken Classic 2023? Thank you for making this video.
Thanks Todd!
Well done Sir! Thank you!
I really love all of your knowledge of Hawken rifles. Do you ever sell any of your remake touches? I am looking for something more authentic Hawkens rifle. I have never done any work on a kit gun. Where are you located?
I appreciate You posting this video !
I'm interested in buying a Gemmer rifle . I'm not able to
build a kit gun though . I don't even know what cal. to buy either .
What would be the most useful cal. to hunt the most game ( different ) ?
Is there a practical and legal cal. to hunt anything from
squirrels to deer ?
BTW ! ... I'm going to be going into MY
second Childhood
in a little while ( what would it cost for You to build ME
one of those babies )
I wonder if Mr Woodfill is related to the WW1 Hoosier named Woodfill?
Great videos a lot of good info
It’s amazing to me how sharp that rifle is
Would be great idea to have some templates that a beginner can get ahold of to get the correct lines when carving the stock
Very informative, but what a huge PITA. I’m a professional woodworker and this still sounds like way too much trouble, and I don’t have an authentic Hawken to work from. Plus you can’t even find a kit, caps, or powder these days!
I’m a goober and I did it, I’m sure you could too. Powder and caps can be shipped to your door.
That was awesome thank you.
Sounds like something I don't want to get into.
I have an Austin Halleck flintlock hawken
You're one ( if not the THE most ) knowledgeable Person on this subject I've come across !
Thank You for the information .
Although I'm no longer a Youth ( You know this when People start saying that You're " X " amount of years " YOUNG " on Your Birthday ) !
I said that to say this ; I want to become a Beginner in this black powder rifle shooting world . I don't have a rifle at this time ( or enough knowledge to be safe , both to Myself and Others ) .
I'm going to HAVE to buy a used and working ( and accurate ) rifle with a short barrel . I'm not much into " wall hangers " I'm more into " go BANGERS " . I'm not able to afford a very expensive rifle either ! SO I guess that leaves Me between a rock & a hard place .
Grew up in So Cal had Dicks Black Powder Gun Works a few 100 yrds down MY Street! Rode My Bike there in 1976 and bought an 1858 KIT at 12 yrs old still have it! put it next to ANY Adult's! I too think well cared for tools look Best! new tools make me suspicious. GOOD JOB! Looks Great!
I'm IN! I LIKE what you did with this Kit! these new kits are to rich for me and not enough "Me" in the kits. of late I have Re Built reproductions! I even have used my DYI fire blue quench for a wood stain. I want to be ready for any grand kids whom maybe Interested some day?
I have a Lyman Great Plains rifle in 54 cal it is such a pleasure to shoot and very accurate, and heavy. I’ve taken a few deer with it, but I prefer my short barreled 50 , it is a great brush gun and I still get 2 in grouping’s at 50 yards . I love your tutorials I have learned a lot thanks.
Thanks for the video!
Do you have a contact link for Bob?
I had a Hawken Family question for him. Thanks!
Good to see Mr. Haney from Green Acres still alive and has a good hobby to boot!!!!
This is a great discussion, if not a better tutorial. Thx!
A beautiful wealth of knowledge. Thank you for sharing!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Awesome video. I learned a ton!
Great video Ethan, thanks!
Awesome video Ethan!
I look at a few things.. IS that wood. Kild dried.., it’s light.. brittle.. looks good.. wouldn’t pay 2 cents for all that labor.. dude.. it’s immediately a rejection.. all the holding power is cooked away.. and everything you say until you under stand.,
Interesting perspective!
Awesome info, thanks
Wonderful truly enjoyed the many helpful info and tips. Hope to get back to Friendship real soon!
Thank you so much. I hope to see you there!
Thompson center claimed making those muzzle loaders for Jeremiah Johnson
Yep
Very good video, a lot of great information
Glad it was helpful!
I like the green mountain barrels.
They are A+ barrels
I was just looking to buy one of these
Build your own ....
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸💪👍